Stay ConnectedThe Clean Sport Collective is a community of powerful voices comprised of athletes, brands, events, clubs, fans and the public to support the pursuit of clean sport and athletics through the absence of performance enhancing drugs.
With this podcast, we will celebrate clean athletes, educate you on issues in the world of clean sport, and bring hope that we can all believe in the power of fair play across all sports.
Copyright: © Clean Sport Collective 2019
With crazy lives and busy schedules, it's been a minute since we published an episode, but we are excited to release this roundtable on recent current events in the realm of clean sport. Hosts Kara Goucher, Shanna Burnette, and Chris McClung all join to provide life updates and discuss:
- Bizarre cheating scandals in chess and fishing - Doping positive for Simona Halep (former tennis #1) - Gold medal upgrade for former guest Lashinda Demus - Recent Kenyan doping busts (including 2021 Boston champ and 3 pacemakers for Kipchoge's sub 2) - News of a previous doping suspension for NYRR's new Chairwoman - Nnenna Lynch
Listen in for our reactions to it all and for a few specific changes we would like to see on how doping positives are reported. We hope to be back to you periodically with similar roundtables in the ever-evolving world of doping and clean sport.
Note: Here is a link to an update on the Nnenna Lynch and NYRR story, including her statement which was released after this episode was recorded:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/12/sports/running-nnenna-lynch-nyrr.html
Jenna Fesemyer was born with a birth defect that would cause doctors to amputate her left leg soon after she entered this world as one of a set of triplets. They told her parents that she would be slow to sit, crawl, and walk even after being fitted with a prosthetic leg before her second birthday.
Spurred on to compete with her siblings, she was the first do to everything which might have been perfect foreshadowing for her current career in sport. She now often stands in first place on top of podiums as a competitive wheelchair racer. She is a national champion, a Pan Am Games champion, a World Marathon Major podium finisher, and now a Paralympian in 3 different events - the 1500m, 5000m, and marathon.
In this episode with Jenna, she shares her journey along the way from her first wheelchair race as a sophomore in high school to living her dream in the Tokyo Paralympics last summer. Jenna also gives us insight into the clean sport culture in the Paralympic world, including out-of-competition testing protocols, the whereabouts filing system, and recent controversy involving new, carbon-fiber wheelchairs that could permanently change the sport.
Jenna is an absolute inspiration. She will be racing the Boston Marathon on April 18th, and we can't wait to cheer her on!
Dominique Scott is a 2-Time Olympian, a 5-Time NCAA Champion, a South African champion and record holder, and the owner of two new, smoking-fast personal bests in the half marathon (67:32) and 10K (31:00).
Beyond the accolades, her energy and passion for the sport is contagious, and her journey to realize her Olympic dream in 2016 in Rio is absolutely inspirational. Kara and Chris dig into it all with her.
We are fortunate that Dominique believes in #cleansport, because she also went nearly 2.5 years without an out-of-competition drug test between the fall of 2019 and early March of this year, which included no out-of-competition testing immediately before competing at both the 5K and 10K at the Tokyo Olympics.
That, of course, is not her fault but does highlight the challenges of international drug testing and the window of opportunity for cheating that was created by the COVID-19 pandemic. This conversation also underscores the difficulties of staying motivated as an elite athlete knowing that the playing field is not level.
Listen and be a fan. Dominique's story is one to follow closely as she aspires to compete in both the Commonwealth Games and the World Championships this year.
Finally on a podcast note, we just surpassed 1 million podcast downloads last week which is a big milestone for us! We wanted to thank you all for listening and supporting this platform. Together, we are making a difference in the name of clean sport!
She first tried out for the Olympics in softball but didn't make the team. Then she switched sports, and the rest is a story for the history and record books.
Now, she is a 4-time Olympian. She is a 5-time Olympic medalist and 8-time World Championship medalist. She is the most decorated Black Winter Olympian ever. She is the most decorated female bobsled Olympian ever.
She is the oldest US woman to win a Winter Olympic medal. She is the only woman to ever win two medals in bobsled at a single Olympic games. She is an advocate for female athletes and athletes of color. She is the mother to two-year-old Nico, and she is an inspiration to us all.
She is Elana Meyers Taylor, and we are so excited to welcome her to the show. We talk about her journey from softball to bobsled, from her first trip down the ice in 2007 to her triumphant results in Beijing at the most recent Olympic games. She tells us stories from the sled including her perspective on doping and racism in the sport.
Along the way, you see Elana as one of the toughest, most resilient, humble, caring, and inspiring athletes we've had the chance to interview. She doesn't know what's next for her yet, but no matter what we will be cheering for her and following along!
We are BACK for a new season of Clean Sport Collective Podcast episodes, and we start this season just like we did the last one with a host round table with Kara, Shanna, and Chris.
We get personal updates from the crew and then talk about some of the big topics in recent months from the world of #cleansport including the Russian doping scandal in figure skating at the Winter Olympics, the confirmed lifetime ban for Alberto Salazar via SafeSport, a recent 10 year ban for Blessing Okagbare in Track and Field, and why Major League Baseball isn’t currently testing for steroids.
Of course, we love to finish on a positive note, and Kara tells us at the end why we should still have hope as fans in the face of these issues.
This episode was recorded prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, making some of these discussions seem trivial in context. We also want to say that we stand with the people of the Ukraine. Our hearts are broken and go out to them during this time. We denounce the Russian invasion and fully support the moves by governing bodies in sport to ban Russia from international competition. #saveUkraine
Nathan Martin is the fastest US-born black man to ever cover 26.2 miles. He ran 2:11:05 at the Marathon Project in 2020 to earn that title with a new personal best. He also finished 3rd American and 8th overall at the recent NYC Marathon, but based on the TV coverage, you would have barely known he was in the race.
Fortunately in this interview, we get the play-by-play on his in-race back and forth with Ben True over the final miles. It is a riveting firsthand account, and we are proud to give Nathan the platform he deserves to share it.
Nathan, however, is used to not being in the spotlight. He's been diligently working to be a better runner in his home state of Michigan since discovering his talent in middle school. In high school, he focused on and was state finalist in the one mile race before being encouraged to move up in distance by his college (and current coach) Dante Ottolini.
In college, he capped his senior year by winning NAIA national titles in the 10K and marathon (yes, marathon!), all in a span of 36 hours. That final college race kickstarted a post-collegiate marathon career that has now included two Olympic Marathon Trials, top finishes at US Marathon Championships, the big PR at the Marathon Project, and now a top 10 result at a World Major.
Nathan and his coach believe that making a US team at the World Championships or Olympics is a possibility, even as he splits his time coaching high school level athletes himself.
In his own words, we learn where Nathan gets his work ethic and his roll-with-the-punches attitude, along with the values he learned from his coaches and parents along the way. We discover the source of his integrity, his perspective on clean sport, and the lessons he hopes to pass onto the kids he now coaches.
Nathan subtly drops truth bombs throughout this episode, and we couldn't be more honored to share his story with you.
Ryan Montgomery and Zach Bitter are no strangers to doing really hard things over long distances. Zach holds the world records for both the 100-mile distance by time and for distance run over 12 hours at 104.88 miles. Ryan just finished second at the Javelina 100, earning a golden ticket for the Western States 100, and he earned a spot on Team USA for the 24-Hour World Championships with a 154.71-mile performance over 24 hours last December.
Together, they join us for our most in-depth conversation to date on the clean sport culture in the trail/ultra world. We start with a story from Ryan on an innocent visit to the doctor that could have inadvertently resulted in him committing a doping violation.
From there, we talk about the need for more education and openness on the topic of clean sport in the trail/ultra community. We discuss drug testing in the sport including Ryan and Zach's history with it (or lack thereof). We cover strict liability, IVs, marijuana/THC use in ultras, and the challenges of enforcing clean sport culture in this corner of the competitive running world without a governing body.
Finally, we discuss the roles of various stakeholders to build and sustain the clean sport culture in trail/ultras including athletes, events, brands, and fans. We asked Ryan and Zach the hard questions, and just like in big races, they didn't back down. Thank you to both of them for their willingness to dig deep.
We also owe a special thanks again to Altra Running for hosting us in their booth at The Running Event, for supporting these two amazing athletes, and for being a brand that cares about clean sport.
"The biggest thing that I just want to stop feeling, that I continue to feel, is the time that I spent in my career being fake." - Alysia Montaño.
Alysia has joined us on 2 episodes already so you know her story well. She is a 7-time US Champion. She is an Olympian, and she has two bronze medals from the World Championships that were stolen by dopers and eventually awarded to her many years later.
You may not know, however, that she is still in an ongoing battle more than 11 years later to recover $60,000 in prize money that was also stolen from her at those two events. For Alysia, it's not about the money. It's the principle that matters, and she is challenging World Athletics, the IOC, the USOPC, and USADA on this issue to set a new precedent for future athletes who might end up in the same situation.
She gives us the play-by-play on that challenge while also catching us up on the latest in her life with 3 kids, her first Spartan obstacle course race, and the important work of her non-profit &Mother.
This is a tough conversation at times, but in the end, we do talk about hope and where she goes to find it. Thank you to Alysia for never shying away from the tough issues and for her commitment to leaving the sport better than she found it.
Also, special thanks to Alysia's sponsor Altra Running, signer of the Clean Sport Collective brand pledge, for hosting us in their booth for this recording during The Running Event in Austin, TX last week.
"You don't quit. You don't look behind you, and you don't cheat." - Molly Seidel, discussing values she learned from her mom.
We can't think of a better guest for our 100th episode than Molly Seidel. To the world, she might be the new face of American marathoning, but privately she is the same person who grew up in a small town in Wisconsin, doesn't take herself too seriously, and is the fiercest of competitors once on a start line.
From Foot Locker champion to NCAA champion to Olympic Bronze Medalist, the journey has not been a linear one for her. In fact, she almost quit the sport multiple times before finding her love for it again in late 2019. In this episode, we learn about it all.
This episode also represents a passing of the torch as Kara discusses Molly breaking her American course record in New York. You get to be a fly on the wall as the two of them fan-girl each other.
Come for that, stay for the fun details about Molly's journey including her running heroes in high school, where and when she decided to race the Olympic Trials, the source of her ferocious nature in races, and near the end, the advice she would now give to the younger Molly who once wrote down her dream to earn an Olympic medal.
We love Molly for her integrity and for her fun-loving nature. We need more of both in our sport so we know the future of American marathoning is in very good hands.
Annie Frisbie had a dream day at the NYC Marathon. She finished as the 3rd American and 7th overall in her debut marathon, running two half marathon PRs en route to the finish line in Central Park. Her finishing time gave her the 4th fastest marathon debut ever by an American.
As an unsponsored athlete, she ran in a mix of apparel and footwear from different brands, all while taking vacation from her day job as a graphic designer for a healthcare start-up. Though unsponsored, she is not unsupported as she runs with Minnesota Distance Elite in Minneapolis.
At 24, Annie Frisbie seems to just be getting started as an elite-level runner. She won a state title in cross country in high school, is an NCAA All-American, and is now getting the opportunity to show her potential and passion for road racing.
In this episode, we cover her childhood growing up in River Falls, Wisconsin where her entrepreneurial parents showed her the importance of hard work. We discuss her patient progression in the sport from high school to Iowa State to joining Minnesota Distance Elite. We discuss her love for and early success on the roads and why she chose to move up to the marathon so soon.
Then of course, we get the play-by-play on her amazing marathon debut in NYC including how she celebrated afterward. Finally, we talk about her perspective on clean sport including the fact that she's never been tested out of competition as a pro.
Annie's perspective on our sport is pure and refreshing, and we can't wait to see where it takes her next!
In 2016, Noah Droddy finished dead last in the US 10K Track Trials as an unsponsored athlete who was relatively new to the pro ranks.
In 2021, Noah Droddy is now the 9th fastest US marathoner of all-time, and to the surprise of many, is again unsponsored.
On the US top 10 list, he's listed with big names like Ryan Hall, Dathan Ritzenhein, and Meb Keflezighi, and yet Noah works full-time at SOS Hydration to make ends meet amidst a professional running world that doesn't always make sense. Sponsored or not, he seems happy, and he's ready to continue chasing his dreams on the road at the NYC Marathon on November 7th.
Sponsored or not, Noah is also unabashedly himself and not afraid to tell it like it is. In this episode, he shares all about his journey from underdog runner in high school in Indiana and at Depauw University to one of the very fastest American marathoners of all-time. He speaks truth about the ups and downs in his story and then isn't afraid to name names on the topics of doping and clean sport. (Yes, he went there.)
We are big fans of Noah and know you will be too. He tells us that he has a big announcement coming on November 4th, and we hope that means a new sponsor sees what we see too!
"There's value in showing up when you're not at your best and seeing what you can do. Who are you when it's rough?" - Des Linden.
You will have to listen until the very end to hear this very introspective life advice from Des. She showed up in Boston two weeks ago when not at her best. She got it done anyway and is now prepping for the NYC Marathon in just under two weeks.
In this episode, we catch up with Des on everything happening in her life from February 2020 onward including her 4th place finish at the Marathon Trials, life during the pandemic, Des-tober, the 50K world record, her announcing career, and of course, her prep for getting back to the marathon distance this fall.
Along the way, we learn about overcoming failure, when to open "the good stuff," the power of tequila, her future in ultras, and whether or not she has any FOMO for Shalane's Project Eclipse. Plus, we get her clear perspective on the Shelby Houlihan case from this summer and the impact it may or may not have had on how she monitors what goes into her body.
It's always great to catch up with Des. She is an inspiration in running and in life, and we can't wait to see what's next for her in NYC and beyond.
Good journalism is an important part of promoting a sport, and it’s also an important part of bringing the dark sides into the light. Fortunately, we have good journalists like Erin Strout who help us do both for the sport of running.
Erin’s interest in writing began by interviewing her family at the Thanksgiving table which ultimately led to majoring in journalism at Penn State. After that, she did stints covering business in NYC and higher education in DC before melding her passion for running with her career. Since then, she has worked with Running Times, Runner’s World, and now Women’s Running where she is a writer and digital editor.
In this episode, we chat with Erin about her parallel journeys as an amateur athlete and a journalist before digging into the role of journalism in the areas of doping and clean sport. She tells us about pushback she received covering the Shelby Houlihan case and gives us her ideas for uncovering the dark sides of the sport if she had unlimited time, money, and resources.
Erin is a great writer and storyteller. When she writes we read it, and when she speaks, we listen. We encourage you to do the same.
We can't think of a better way to finish the summer of Kate Grace than with a podcast with Kate Grace! Yes, she's an Olympian, US Champion, and now multiple-time Diamond League winner, but her career is loaded with ups and downs from injuries to team and sponsor changes and to disappointment on the track. Through it all, she remains the same, balanced human who operates with high integrity and who values family above it all. For those reasons alone, we know you will love getting to know Kate in this episode.
In addition, we know you will be interested to learn from Kate about the practical reality of clean sport in her daily life from whereabouts filings and early morning drug tests to avoiding contaminated food or supplements. Plus, she provides her perspective on the Shelby Houlihan case as a former teammate.
In the end, she tells about what's next for her as she dreams big for the next Olympic cycle. We have a good feeling that there will be more summers of Kate Grace around the corner, and we can't wait to cheer her on for all of them!
We last talked to Sara Hall in February of 2020 for episode #37, just before she had a disappointing DNF at the Olympic Marathon Trials shortly after. Then, the world shut down and her plan to cope by diving straight into a new training cycle fell apart.
She responded like a champion by pivoting and adjusting to the rapidly changing circumstances to make the most of it. What followed were the best results of her career including a half marathon PR, 2nd place in the London Marathon, a win at the Marathon Project in the 2nd fastest time ever by an American (2:20:32), and 6th place in the 10,000m at the US Track Trials in Eugene.
Of course, it wasn't easy as she faced a host of ups and downs along the way including her own case of COVID-19 earlier this year. We talk to Sara about the details and emotions of it all from dealing with disappointment in Atlanta to the joy and relief of her amazing kick finish in London. Plus, she tells us about how recent doping cases affect her day-to-day life in very real ways.
Sara is now prepping to go after Deena Kastor's American record in Chicago on October 10th, but as she shares in the interview, she is far from done regardless of how it goes. Join us in cheering her on as she goes for the record books and beyond!
Courtney Dauwalter is already one of the greatest ultra runners of all-time, and she's far from finished. She recently won her second Ultra-Trail du Mont-Blanc in course record time. She's won the Western States 100, the Tahoe 200, the Moab 240, and the US edition of Big's Backyard Ultra, finishing with 283.3 miles completed over nearly 57 hours. It seems that she gets better as the races get longer and harder.
Did you know that she grew up in Minnesota where she got her start in sport in gymnastics, soccer and floor hockey? Or, that she was a state cross-country skiing champion in high school and went on to compete collegiately as a cross-country ski racer at the University of Denver? And, did you know that she did not finish her first 100 mile race, which stoked her fire to run another one (and another)?
Kara and Shanna host this episode to talk with Courtney about it all, including her perspective on clean sport. You will fall in love with her kind, infectious energy and maybe, just maybe, want to add an ultra distance race to your bucket list. Listen at your own risk!
It was a busy summer for your Clean Sport Collective hosts, but we are excited to be back to you with new content, starting this week with a host roundtable.
In this episode, we give you quick updates on the lives of Kara, Shanna, and Chris and then dive right into the deep end to discuss the biggest cases of the summer. We cover the Alberto Salazar SafeSport ban, the Sha'Carri Richardson and Brianna McNeal cases, and of course, our perspectives on the Shelby Houlihan decision.
This episode is just us calling it how we see it, and we look forward to the great debate to follow.
We are excited to present this conversation with new Olympian Cory McGee! She earned a spot in Tokyo with a 2nd place finish in the 1500m at the Olympic Trials earlier this week, and in this episode, she joins us to tell us all about it.
Cory has been running at a high level for a very long time. She was a US junior champion in 2011 then went on to become a 10-time All-American at the University of Florida. In the pro ranks, she's been working diligently toward this breakthrough moment for a really long time. In this discussion, she talks about the importance of her move to Team Boss and the lessons she's learned from teammates Emma Coburn, Aisha Praught-Leer, Kate Grace, Dom Scott, and Laura Thweatt.
She then takes us through the race from her pre-race expectations and strategy to the glorious final 100m when she willed her body to that 2nd place finish. Cory just loves to run and knowing her integrity and her stance on clean sport makes it so easy to cheer loudly for her both now and in Tokyo later this summer!
Zola Budd Pieterse has every reason in the world to hate the sport of track and field, but she doesn't. Instead, she gives back to it in ways that will help today's young stars experience it in a much more positive way than she did. It has not, however, been an easy journey.
Zola grew up on a farm in South Africa before suddenly being thrust on the world stage at the age of 17 when she ran a world record time in the 5000m. That time would not be ratified by the IAAF because it did not recognize competitions in her home country due to apartheid policies there. Thus to compete internationally, she was sent to Great Britain to claim UK citizenship since her grandfather was British.
This move was met with great controversy as many meet organizers and fans protested her naturalization, making life difficult for Zola upon her arrival. In spite of the less-than-warm welcome, Zola still ran extremely well, claiming the official 5000m world record and earning a spot in the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles.
In the final in LA, she was involved in a collision with Mary Decker Slaney that sent Mary to the ground and left Zola reeling from the boos that then filled the Olympic stadium, directed toward her even though the contact was incidental. Even with this disappointment, Zola went on to claim more European records, win the World Cross Country Championship in back to back years, and make another Olympic team in 1992.
In this episode, Zola joins Shanna and Kara to talk about it all including growing up as a running prodigy, how she dealt with the intensity of the negative spotlight often on her, and why she competed barefoot and always clean in the steroid era of the 1980s and EPO era of the early 1990s.
Zola then shares how she reclaimed her love for the sport as her own while also coaching the next generation of runners in her current home city of Conway, South Carolina. Zola is an absolute legend in our sport, and we are so honored to share her story.
What price would you be willing to pay for telling the truth? What if you knew it would cost you your home, your livelihood, your security, and nearly your country? Would you still speak up? Would you still do the right thing?
Whether they know it at the time or not, that is the choice often faced by what the world calls "whistleblowers." We call them truth-tellers, and Renee Anne Shirley ("Anne") is one of those truth-telling heroes. In August of 2013, she spoke out via a Sport Illustrated editorial about the lack of testing being done by the Jamaica Anti-Doping Commission (JADCO) in and around the 2012 Olympics in London. That editorial would change her life forever.
In this episode, Kara and Chris talk to Anne about her story including her background in sport growing up in Jamaica and the eventual combination of serendipity and strong will that put her in position to build the anti-doping infrastructure in Jamaica. She details the behind-the-scenes political gamesmanship that sits behind the anti-doping apparatus worldwide and how she maneuvered her way into the power structure before eventually exposing its flaws.
Anne discusses why the global governance structure needs to be re-built from the ground up while still giving us hope for a better future. In addition, she tells us what we can do as fans to make a difference for clean sport wherever we are. Anne is one of the clearest and most objective speakers on any issue related to clean sport, and we are excited to share her story and her insight.
Hillary Allen is used to defying the odds. She did it in graduate school when her running career began, rising from a first-time marathoner in 2012 to the very top of the sky running world in just five short years. She did it again in 2017, surviving a 150-foot fall on the trails which nearly killed her to return to the podium in her sport just over a year later.
In this episode, Hillary shares her inspiring story with Kara and Chris. We start with her journey to becoming a runner evolving from a childhood sports-fanatic and tennis player who saw running as punishment to a graduate student simply seeking running as an outlet from her intense coursework.
From there, Hillary describes how an unlikely running buddy of hers helped her fall in love with the sport and discover her passion and potential on the trails, which quickly and almost accidentally evolved into an elite-level career. That career would take her to the top of the sport and the world, as she found global success in a niche area of trail running called sky running.
Then, everything changed with a traumatic fall from a ridge line in a race in Norway. Hillary gives us a moment-by-moment account of that life-changing step and recounts the painful and challenging recovery process that followed. She tells us how she found the strength to persist in rehab, how she overcame her fears to return racing again, and how her perspective on life is forever changed.
Of course, we also get her perspective on the clean sport culture in the trail running world, how the culture might be different in the US vs Europe, and whether or not trail running needs a more organized anti-doping program.
We walked away inspired from this conversation with Hillary and know you will too! To read Hillary's story in her own words, check out her new book:
Out and Back: A Runner's Story of Survival Against All Odds.
You might know Anthony Famiglietti (nicknamed “Fam”) as the two-time Olympian in the steeplechase with an aggressive, front-running style on the track. You may not know his other side as the quiet, introverted artist who sees the world a little different than the rest of us, including a unique perspective on the world of clean sport.
In this episode with Kara, Shanna, and Chris, we get to meet both sides of him, Anthony and Fam, the artist and the athlete. Anthony grew up on Long Island and was first introduced to the world of sport with a skateboard on his feet, learning on his homemade half pipe to enjoy the journey toward a goal even through failure. He came to running in high school through a few mentors in his life who both died tragically. Running then became an outlet for his grief as well as a pure way to honor those who had believed in him. Not recruited heavily in high school, Anthony had to win the 3200m at the state meet to earn a scholarship to Appalachian State in his final high school race.
Anthony tells us how he discovered and fell in love with the steeplechase at Appalachian State and why he had to transfer to Tennessee in order to truly pursue the event. Once at Tennessee, he met the great US distance runner Todd Williams, discovered that you could make a living as a pro runner, and set his sights on beating Todd’s times and making an Olympic team.
From there, the conversation turns to doping and clean sport as Anthony asks us the question: “what is doping?” He then shares his own experiences being introduced to the gray areas of cheating from a place you might not expect – a doctor associated with the US Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. These experiences have informed his art including his interpretation of the Alberto Salazar case via a piece called “Death of Saladbar,” in which Kara is also depicted for her role as truth teller.
Anthony understands the impact of the system but still puts the responsibility for the fight for clean sport on the athlete who he believes should be protecting the sanctity of their pursuit at all costs. We appreciate his perspective and the deep dialogue.
Nick Willis might be the fastest "amateur" athlete in the world. He hopes it is fast enough to help him qualify for his 5th Olympic Games in Tokyo this year.
In this episode led by Chris and Adam, we find out all about Nick's career, which now spans nearly two decades, from growing up in New Zealand to now joining the corporate world with Tracksmith. Of course, we cover the two Olympic medals in between too!
Nick's story is a fascinating one as he showed promise in running at a very early age, running a city record at the age of 7 in the 200m sprint. Even with the early promise, his path to his first Olympic medal in 2008 was far from a linear one. We discuss those twists and turns with Nick and then hear the play by play on his final race in Beijing as he passed 3 runners in the home stretch to earn bronze on the day.
That medal would be upgraded to silver just a year later to the surprise of no one as the gold medalist Rashid Ramzi was disqualified for doping. Later Asbel Kiprop, who still officially holds the gold for that race, would be banned for doping as well. In spite of all of that, Nick explains why neither Ramzi or Kiprop could ruin his memory of that experience.
On doping, Nick shares his first experience seeing it on the international scene. He talks about how he approached races knowing that certain competitors were definitely cheating and how speaking out against it can come with a price. He even details how drug testing works for an international athlete training outside his home country, as he spent most of his career training in the US. Plus, Nick gives his perspective on the future of clean sport and how he plans to give back to it in his new role with Tracksmith.
Nick has said, "Running is empty unless it’s about something more." In his new role as an "amateur" athlete, he is committed to building that something more in the sport, and we can't wait to see what comes next for him!
With this episode, we release an important follow-up conversation with Dawn Harper-Nelson. In our preparation for our original interview with Dawn, we missed an important detail that should have been central to that first discussion. After posting episode 84, we learned that Dawn actually served a three-month suspension beginning in December of 2016 for unintentionally ingesting a banned substance.
In the fall of 2016, Dawn ended up in the emergency room with high blood pressure. The prescribed medication to get it under control contained the banned diuretic hydrochlorothiazide. Dawn attempted to check the medication, but the name on the bottle included an acronym that didn't match what was in the banned substance database. She documented everything about the incident (including a screenshot of her search) and was able to get all proof to USADA immediately after her adverse test result. That information led to the short, three-month suspension.
According to USADA, "Following an investigation into the circumstances of her case, including Harper-Nelson’s medical records, USADA has accepted Harper-Nelson’s explanation that her positive test was caused by a blood pressure medication she was prescribed by a physician to treat hypertension. Harper-Nelson further explained that she made efforts to determine if the medication contained prohibited substances; however, due to using partial search terms, those efforts were unsuccessful."
We sincerely apologize to you as listeners and to Dawn for this oversight. We absolutely still believe in Dawn as a clean athlete and are thankful to her for taking additional time to share the story of this situation. It's an important cautionary tale for clean athletes everywhere. If you are clean athlete and have questions about a potential medication, USADA encourages you to reach to their Athlete Express hotline at 1-866-601-2632.
Plus, if you haven't listened to episode 84 already, it's a must-listen as Dawn is such an inspiration.
You don't want to miss this episode with Dawn Harper-Nelson because we can't think of a better person to showcase on this International Women's Day. Dawn is a fierce competitor and loving mom with an absolutely infectious personality. She's earned 4 global championship medals on the track including a gold, 2 silvers, and a bronze, but her story has impact well beyond the podium.
In this episode with Shanna and Chris, Dawn opens up about her journey from growing up in East St. Louis to now raising a daughter of her own in the same area. She talks about the impact of the role models in her life including her parents who made sure her education took priority over her track career, her high school coach who saw her ultimate potential in the hurdles, and the legendary Jackie Joyner-Kersee, also from East St. Louis, who pulled her aside at a young age and told her that she had the potential to be great.
In spite of the support, Dawn shares that her path to Olympic gold in 2008 was far from easy as she barely made the Olympic team while navigating the initial part of her pro career without a sponsor, wearing borrowed spikes from a teammate. From there, Dawn discusses how she dealt with the added pressure of being Olympic champion while going on to win 3 more medals and 4 Diamond League titles over the next decade in her highly-competitive event. She also tells us why the hurdles are different and why she believes the clean sport culture in the event is so strong.
In 2018, she chose to retire after finding out she was pregnant with her daughter Harper. As she explains, the culture is gradually changing for the better, but traditionally, pregnancy has meant the end of your career for most women. Now in partnership with Cadenshae and &Mother, Dawn is on the comeback trail to return to the Olympics in Tokyo to show her daughter that you can be a mom and still chase big dreams. We are rooting for her but will still be forever-fans no matter what happens. Dawn's story is a powerful inspiration for us all!
There are few in the sport that have so selflessly given back to it as Kevin Hanson, and he's been doing it for the last 40+ years. He has coached at every level from high school to community college to the pros. He and his brother started and continue to run the Hanson's Running Shops near Detroit, Michigan, and of course, they are also the co-founders and coaches of the Hansons-Brooks Distance Project, the program that produced Olympian and Boston Marathon Champion Desiree Linden.
In this episode, Chris and Shanna talk to Kevin about his journey from growing up near Detroit, Michigan in a lower-middle-class family to now giving back to the sport and to his home city as a coach, race director, and store owner.
Kevin tells the hilarious story of his introduction to the marathon via his brother Keith boldly deciding to run one at the age of 13. He shares how his high school coach inspired him to get into coaching himself and to dream big, which ultimately led to the formation of the Hansons-Brooks team even though everyone told them it was a foolish idea. He talks about the evolution of the team from bringing Brooks on as a sponsor to producing their first Olympian in Brian Sell in 2008 and ultimately to the big win for Des Linden in Boston in 2018.
Getting to the issues of clean sport, we discuss the zero-tolerance policy for doping on his team, the suspension of Alberto Salazar, the impact of super shoes on the roads and track, and the need for the re-allocation of funds from enriching the leaders in sports governance to more money for drug testing to catch the cheats.
Kevin is a no-nonsense kind of guy that operates with integrity, who will always speak the truth about any topic. This conversation with us was no exception. Thank you Kevin for all that you do for our sport and for clean sport.
You know Jim Walmsley as the 4-time ultra runner of the year who owns the course record at the Western States 100, the 50-mile world record, and now the US 100K record. You probably also know him as the trail runner who ran a 1:04 half marathon on the roads to qualify and compete in the Olympic Marathon Trials with the road specialists, where he finished a respectable 22nd last February.
But, did you know that he won a state cross country title in high school in Arizona? Or, that he attended the US Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs where he ran every distance from the mile to the 10,000 meters on the track including the steeplechase? Or, that he may not be the ultra trail runner he is today if not for being stationed at missile silo in Montana after graduation? Or, that he was one of the very first trail runners to sign the Clean Sport Pledge?
Learn all of those things and more in this episode with Jim led by Shanna and Kara. Jim holds nothing back in sharing his story openly and honestly. It is comforting for us to know that Jim is leading the way in the trail world, where the culture of clean sport is already strong.
Clare Egan has *only* been competing in the sport of Biathlon for 8 years, but she has already made a lifetime of impact. Yes, you could talk about what she's accomplished for the US on the snow and ice as an athlete. She's an Olympian and a World Cup podium winner after all. Her real impact, however, has come as chair of the Athletes' Committee for the International Biathlon Union (IBU) where she's helped set a new tone in the sport, rooting out corruption in governance and taking a stand for clean sport.
In this episode, Clare shares her story with Kara and Chris. She discusses growing up in Maine in the hometown of Joan Benoit Samuelson where running and cross country skiing were her first loves in sport. She shares her unusual path to the sport of Biathlon, which she didn't discover until the age of 25 when she met a famous Biathlon coach through her ski team. You also get to hear the hilarious story of her first target shooting lesson when the coach unceremoniously advised her, "do not try to hit the target."
From there, we chat about her quick rise in the sport from Olympian in 2018 to World Cup bronze medalist in 2019, and Clare refreshingly tells us why she deserved that medal. Finally, we discuss all things clean sport as Clare talks about why it is such an important topic to her. Clare does not mince her words as she tells us that she believes the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) should be dismantled and re-organized if we are ever going to win this fight for clean sport.
She understands the impact of integrity within governance due to her involvement with the IBU, and we wholeheartedly agree with her perspective. Clare talks the talk and backs it up by walking the walk as an activist making change in her sport. We need more athletes willing to do so just like her.
NY Times articles referenced in the discussion:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/21/sports/olympics/russia-doping-wada-cas.html
For a professional runner, the resume of Alexi Pappas looks a little different than most. Even though she is an Olympian and 10,000m record holder for Greece, her running accolades might not even be at the top of the list. She's also an actress, filmmaker, and now author of her own memoir Bravey: Chasing Dreams, Befriending Pain, and Other Big Ideas.
Her journey in life, however, has not been an easy one. In this episode, Kara and Shanna talk with Alexi about the challenges she has faced and the life lessons that have come along the way. Alexi discusses the difficulty of losing her mom to suicide at a young age and her evolving perspective on her mom's struggle as she has aged. She shares the story of being forced to quit her high school XC/track team and how it ended up being a blessing in disguise for her future in the sport. She talks about the importance of team in her life and all of the ways others (including Kara) have shown up for her.
Alexi tells us why she chose to run for Greece, the magic of running a PR and national record in the Olympics in Rio in 2016, and then how she battled and overcame her own depression immediately following.
Of course, we also get Alexi's perspective on doping, including her own initial naivete about it, and what she wants to see for the future of sport. This interview with Alexi is unlike any we have ever done. There is something for everyone in the discussion, and we are thankful that Alexi was so willing to openly share her story. Alexi is a role model to so many, and we highly recommend that you check out her book!
Here are the two articles mentioned in the discussion:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/07/opinion/alexi-pappas-depression.html
https://www.runnersworld.com/runners-stories/a35120434/mary-cain-alexi-pappas-friendship/
We dare you to tell Ali Jawad that he can't do something. He will probably prove you wrong just as he's been doing his entire life.
Ali was born without legs, but he has never viewed that as a disadvantage. At age 7, he dreamed of being on an Olympic podium after watching Michael Johnson win double golds in the 200m and 400m in Atlanta. He finally made that dream come true by winning a silver medal in Rio in 2016 in his third Paralympic Games. The journey to that podium was not an easy one. In fact, Ali nearly lost his life in 2010 due to complications from Crohn's disease.
In this episode with Kara and Chris, Ali shares his inspiring story, one that has been grounded in integrity since the very beginning. He discusses his first week in powerlifting at 16 when his coach gave him the choice to always compete clean or get out of his gym. He talks about his meteoric rise in the sport to his first Paralympic Games in Beijing in 2008, but his chances for the podium there were derailed by a mysterious illness. That illness, later diagnosed as Crohn's disease would nearly take his life and almost cost him his career in 2010. Ever present, he is still struggling with the impact of Crohn's on his body to this day.
Ali discusses how he overcame these challenges to become a World Champion in 2014, European Champion in 2015, and then win that coveted silver medal in Rio in 2016. Now, Ali hopes to make a 4th Paralympic team in Tokyo this year, but he tells you why it might be his biggest challenge yet.
Along the way, Ali has been an outspoken advocate for clean sport since the very beginning of his career in powerlifting. He has spoken out against systematic doping in his sport, advocated for lifetime bans, and provided specific recommendations on how to change the governance structure within WADA in order to better elevate the athlete's voice.
You will not find an athlete who speaks more clearly on these topics, and we are honored to share Ali's inspiring story with you.
Track and field is full of thousands of athletes who train hard, seeking glory without a sponsor and unsure of where they might earn their next check to cover rent and food. Mikel Thomas is one of those athletes, and in spite of all of his challenges, he's grinded to 3 Olympic Games and podium finishes at the Pan Am Games and NACAC Championships (for North America, Central America, and the Caribbean).
Plus, he is now an advocate on topics that include athletes' rights and clean sport, even while he is attempting to make a 4th Olympic team, because he wants to leave the sport a better place for those who will come after him. He also wants to make his mother proud.
In this episode with Chris and Kara, Mikel shares his story from being born in Trinidad and Tobago to moving to Brooklyn at a young age to the turning-point moment when a school administrator chose not to punish him but instead to give him an opportunity in sport that would change his life forever. He talks about making the most of that opportunity by teaching himself how to run in the high hurdles by watching YouTube videos even as coaches told him he couldn't do it.
He's proved them and others wrong time and time again, not only learning and excelling at the high hurdles but also overcoming countless figurative hurdles from lack of sponsorship to eviction and injury to being forced to speak out against an embezzlement scandal within his own federation.
Regarding clean sport, Mikel discusses seeing organized doping within the sprints as an athlete, and he details his experience seeing it from the top while working as an intern at the International Testing Agency (which is affiliated with WADA).
Mikel says that his story shows that he is either relentless or stubborn. We think it's both... in a good way. Join us in standing with Mikel to support him in his journey to Tokyo and in his fight to empower and educate athletes for clean sport worldwide.
We are excited to kick off the podcast in 2021 with one of the greatest American distance runners of all time - Shalane Flanagan. From the roads to the track to the grass and mud of a cross-country course, her resumé of accomplishments pretty much has it all: 3-time NCAA champion, 4-time Olympian, Olympic silver medalist, 18-time US champion, World XC bronze, NYC Marathon champion, and former American record holder for all distances from 3K, 5K, 10K and 15K.
Even with this amazing list of accolades, we may never know Shalane's true accomplishments because many of her major races were affected in some way by drug cheats.
In this episode, Kara and Chris ask Shalane about it all. We discuss her childhood growing up as the daughter of two elite distance runners, living in Colorado and then Massachusetts, where her parents emphasized surrounding yourself with the right people.
She shares when her Olympic aspirations began and the gory details of getting food poisoning in China before bouncing back to earn Olympic bronze (which was later upgraded to silver). She talks about that medal upgrade and the impact of drug cheats on many of her major races including the Boston Marathon in 2014. Finally, she tells us about the true meaning behind the "f-yeah" moment at the finish line of her NYC Marathon victory and then how she now approaches clean sport as a coach with her athletes at the Bowerman Track Club.
Shalane is an amazing ambassador for #cleansport, and we can't think of a better way to kick off our podcasts as we head into this Olympic year!
What is it like growing up as the daughter of one of the greatest distance runners of all-time? Surprisingly normal actually.
In this episode, Eilish McColgan, the daughter of episode 60 guest Liz McColgan, joins Chris and Kara to talk about her own running journey from childhood club star to 2-time Olympian. Not pressured into it by her distance-running parents, she fell in love with the sport all on her own, making her journey uniquely beautiful.
Eilish details her up and down journey where she endured a performance plateau in high school before breakout performances in her early 20s led to a 2012 Olympic berth in the steeplechase and eventually to the 2016 Olympics in the 5K. It wasn't easy, however, as multiple injuries and surgeries almost derailed each of those opportunities on the world stage.
Eilish shares so much wisdom in this episode including navigating her changing body as a teenager, learning how to individualize her training for optimal results, and maintaining her passion and commitment to the sport through major injury. Of course, she also provides her perspective on what should be done to level the playing field and ensure all countries uphold similar standards for clean sport.
Throughout the conversation, Eilish's love for running shines brightly through, and we can't wait to root for her in Tokyo next year!
A quick programming note: we will be on hiatus for the month of December to enjoy time with our families for the holidays and will be back to you with new episodes in January.
Leo Manzano’s story should be a simple picture of everything that is beautiful about track and field. Mexican-born, he moved to small-town Texas at a young age and had to negotiate with his father to join the middle school cross country team by agreeing to work over the summer to help his family pay the bills.
Once on that team, he fell in love with the sport, and then with his raw talent combined with grit, determination, perseverance, and lots of hard work, he went on to earn 9 state titles, 5 NCAA championships, 10-straight podium finishes at USAs, 2 Olympic teams, and one history-making silver medal at the London Olympics. Though small in stature at five and a half feet tall, Leo was a giant on the track known for his devastating finishing kick that carried him onto that podium in London and to the front of countless races.
Unfortunately, Leo’s story cannot be told without discussing some of the sport’s darkest shadows. In his first Olympics in Beijing, the gold and silver medalists were later busted for EPO use. In London in 2012, he was beaten by Taoufik Makhloufi who was the subject of great suspicion at the time and is now under investigation by French doping authorities after allegedly being caught with syringes and performance-enhancing substances. Gold medal and national anthem moment stolen.
Even after winning his silver medal, the first Olympic medal by an American in 44 years in the 1500m, Leo’s contract was reduced by Nike because he was deemed “too old” at the age of 27. As a result, Leo let his Nike contract expire but couldn’t find another deal for 18 months as he struggled to find another company that appreciated the value in his story. Meanwhile, he silenced the skeptics in 2014 and won his 2nd national title wearing a singlet with no logos.
Leo ultimately signed with Hoka and is supported by them to this day, even beyond retirement, but we can’t help but wonder why one of America’s greatest milers wasn’t more appreciated in his prime.
In this episode, Leo joins Chris and Shanna to talk about both sides of his incredibly inspiring story. This one is a must-listen as Leo humbly reflects on what led him to become one the most decorated milers in US history while also shining new light on the dark sides of the sport with unique perspective and potential solutions. It’s an honor for us to share Leo’s story.
For Frank Lara, there is so much bittersweet about winning his first national title. He earned his first podium in a US road championship less than a year after turning pro. He was ecstatic with his second-place finish on the day only to find out that he was beaten by a drug cheat with a prior suspension for using EPO.
Still, he celebrated while the world was outraged for him, and he waited patiently for the much needed 2nd place prize money to supplement his part-time paycheck. The prize money never came. He forgot about it and moved on to prepare for other races with the Olympics on his mind. Meanwhile behind the scenes, the process was working for him.
The runner who crossed the line first that day tested positive for anabolic agents on race day and later in an out-of-competition test. The US Anti-Doping Agency was hard at work to confirm the adverse results and deliver a new 8-year sanction to the athlete in question.
Then more than 6 months after race day on the day before his birthday, Frank found out via a text from a friend that he was the deserving champion of the US 15K championship on that day in March. He didn’t know how to feel with his top-of-the-podium moment already stolen. He did the only thing he could control and hammered a training run the next day on the famous Magnolia Road, earning a fastest-known-time (FKT), before celebrating quietly with friends.
Frank joins Chris and Kara in this episode to talk about the up and down emotions of it all. Plus, he shares his full story from being born in Mexico City to moving to Houston at the age of 5 to his “slow” starting in running before attending Furman University and ultimately joining the Roots Running Project in Boulder. Now, Frank Lara is officially a national champion with that first-place prize money in hand and all eyes on Tokyo 2021.
While it’s tragic that Frank lost his winning moment in March, we can celebrate and find hope in the fact that the process worked, and clean sport prevailed in this story. It’s so important that we keep fighting for young athletes just like Frank. Thanks to him for so graciously sharing his story.
Olympian in the 1500m in 2004. Podium finisher at the Ironman distance in 2016. Canadian record holder in the marathon in 2020. Malindi has 16 years of competing at a high-level as a pro, and she isn't finished yet with a potential spot at Tokyo 2021 pending selection by Athletics Canada.
Malindi's longevity and range in endurance sports is beyond impressive, but perhaps more impressive and inspiring, is the mindset that helped her achieve these results. Malindi joins Chris and Kara in this episode to talk about it all from growing up playing soccer in British Columbia (BC) to competing at Stanford with Sara Hall and Lauren Fleshman and on to the twists and turns of her amazing pro career.
In spite of her success, Malindi's career's was significantly affected by doping in a way that we haven't discussed yet. Listen in to learn about that and hear about how it cost her a 2nd Olympic berth in 2008 and stole her joy in the sport, driving her retirement from the track in 2012. Letting go of that heartbreak, she later discovered a 2nd phase of her career in long-course triathlon and ultimately the marathon.
Now a mom of two and living a full life in BC, Malindi focuses on her love of the journey, and it has her again poised to make that 2nd Olympic team more than 16 years after her first. We hope she makes it, but either way, she's an inspiring example for clean athletes everywhere.
Paula Aranda is the Chair of the Board for USA Weightlifting. As a 31-year-old woman of color, her background is unfortunately all too rare within sports governance. Perhaps equally rare is her clear and unequivocal stance on clean sport.
USA Weightlifting is currently locked in an international battle for the integrity of its sport as the International Weightlifting Federation (IWF) tries to protect a culture of secrecy, bribery, and cheating. With Paula at the helm, USA Weightlifting recently took a stand via public statement to admonish the actions of the international governing body. This statement had us giving a virtual stand ovation as it was perhaps the clearest statement for clean sport that we've ever seen a federation make.
Paula joins Chris and Kara for this episode to talk about the reasons for that statement and why she and her board are fighting so hard for clean athletes. We start by getting background on Paula herself and then discuss her origins in weightlifting as a competitor and eventually board member. She discusses her indoctrination into a culture of clean sport within USA Weightlifting that started the first time she walked into a gym.
She shares more about the differences in the culture in the USA versus internationally and how politics and corruption are protecting a culture of doping outside the US. To conclude, she gives details on the athlete-first approach to governance her board is taking in order to protect the integrity of results here in the US.
To quote the USA Weightlifting statement, "we are not done fighting for our sport or clean athletes worldwide." We are right there with you, Paula. Thank you for the example you are setting for federations worldwide.
We are excited to welcome Ross Tucker back to the show! He joined us in a special episode in January to discuss the great shoe debate, and this time we learn more about his background growing up in South Africa before turning to discuss all of the major issues of today.
Chris and Adam lead this discussion as Ross talks about growing up in a small, industrial town in South Africa. He describes how checking out the only book on running in his local library would change the course of his life and career. That book - Lore of Running by Dr. Tim Noakes - would lead him to study under Dr. Noakes at the University of Capetown before embarking on a career in sports science himself.
Now, Ross is a science and research consultant for World Rugby, where he advises on issues of player safety and policy. He's also co-host of the Science of Sport Podcast where he and co-host Mike Finch regularly bring data and evidence to discuss a host of issues across sports.
In this episode, we dig into a handful of those issues including the shift of the great shoe debate from the roads to the track, the Caster Semenya case, new rules from World Rugby governing the participation of transgender athletes, and of course, the latest in the world of clean sport.
Ross Tucker has an amazing ability to make complex issues very simple and easy to understand. He's also adept at arguing both sides of each issue, which often brings unique perspective to any discussion. We learn something new every time we listen to Ross speak, and this was no exception.
Lee Troop grew up in Geelong, Australia and started running as an elementary school kid with his dad. His journey from that kid to become a 3-time Olympian and then ultimately to become coach of Olympic marathon team member Jacob Riley is equal parts fascinating and inspiring.
The journey has been far from easy, however, and Chris and Shanna chat with Lee about it all. He shares the story of the personal transformation of his father that would lead them to start running together. He discusses when he knew running could be career for him in spite of not having formal coaching until he was 18 years old. He talks about his hero Australian marathoner Robert de Castella who inspired him to move up to the marathon and to always compete clean.
Lee is very open and forthright about his challenges in life including under-performing his own expectations in all three of his Olympics in 2000, 2004, and 2008 and overcoming periods of time as an athlete and coach when he lost joy in the sport.
Through difficult times, Lee began working with Jacob Riley which led to a measure of redemption for both of them when Jacob placed 2nd at the Olympic Marathon Trials to earn his trip to the Tokyo Olympics. Lee recounts his emotions embracing Jacob at the finish line in Atlanta, while also being open about "selling his soul" by supporting Jacob's decision to wear the Nike Alphafly in that race.
We ask Lee about that decision and get his perspective on how technology, corruption in sports governance, and doping are affecting the simple beauty of our sport. In spite of all of it, Lee still believes in the power of running to change lives. He is still coaching hard, advocating for clean sport, and giving back to the next generation of athletes. Thank you Lee for staying the course with grit and integrity. You are an inspiration.
This week, we take a break from interviews for a Clean Sport Collective host roundtable to discuss current events in the world of clean sport. Chris moderates while Shanna, Kara, and Adam weigh in with their perspectives. Topics include recent doping sanctions in the pro and amateur ranks, the use of CBD, bribery charges for the former President of World Athletics, the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on Lance Armstrong, and of course, how the great shoe debate is now moving from the roads to the track.
On the positive side, we finish by discussing inspiring moments with recent guests, celebrating Alysia Montaño on the cover of Runner's World, and reflecting on what creative race production during the pandemic might mean for the future of the sport. The excitement we've seen from fans engaging in the sport during this crazy time brings us great hope. Together, as a collective, we can change the culture and make a difference for the next generation of athletes to face a more level playing field. Join us.
It's rare for a track & field athlete to appear on Time's List of the 100 Most Influential People of the year, but there is no one more deserving than Allyson Felix for everything she represents both on and off the track. To celebrate Allyson this week for receiving this great honor, we are replaying our prior interview with her (recorded in September 2019).
In this conversation with Chris and Kara, we begin with a quick introduction on her background in sport and then dive into two topics on which Allyson's voice is so important: maternity rights and clean sport.
She discusses how being a mom has motivated her to speak out on topics such as these. She provides her thoughts on what more can be done to protect female athletes during and after their pregnancies. In addition, we talk about the culture within sprinting regarding the use of performance-enhancing drugs and what more can be done to create a level playing field. She also gives her perspective on Christian Coleman's whereabouts violations and why missing a drug test is such a big deal, including a story about her one and only missed test while taking an exam at USC.
At the end, we discuss Allyson's sponsorship deal with Athleta and what she is doing to try to make another Olympic team in Toyko.
Allyson is the most decorated track and field athlete of all-time with 27 global championship medals, but her impact off the track is perhaps even more important. Thank you to Time for recognizing that and congratulations again to Allyson for making the list. You deserve it.
One of the best ways to support #cleansport is to buy products from companies that have signed the Clean Sport pledge. Altra Running is one of those companies.
In this episode, Shanna and Kara interview Altra co-founder Brian Beckstead. Brian shares the story of how Altra was born from his entry into the sport by following the footsteps of his older sisters to meeting his co-founder Golden Harper on the first day of high school cross-country. He and Golden went on to work together in a specialty running store where they began to modify shoes at home to balance the cushioning and provide more room for the toes to splay in the forefoot. They then tried to give their ideas away for free to established shoe companies at the time, who wouldn't listen or who ridiculed their ideas in some cases.
With no one responding, they decided to just build the shoes themselves and Altra Running was born. Brian gives several of the behind-the-scenes stories in the roller coaster journey that led Altra to be the success story it is today, including the spiritual moment near the end of a 100-mile race when he realized that the company was going to make it.
Finally, Brian talks about what companies like Altra can do to support clean sport including the creative ways they are choosing to sponsor clean athletes and build the running community in grassroots ways. The fight for clean sport needs more companies like Altra to step up and set the tone with a zero tolerance policy for doping. Thank you to Brian and the full team at Altra for doing their part.
Did you know that women weren't allowed to compete in the 1500m in the Olympics until 1972 in Munich or in the 10,000m until 1988 in Seoul? As a pioneer for women in track and field, Francie Larrieu Smith competed in both of those events. All-in-all, she made 5 Olympic teams in three different distances including the marathon in 1992.
In this conversation with Kara and Shanna (and a special guest co-host), Francie talks about growing up as one of nine children where she aspired to be an Olympian from a very early age in spite of not having access to sports as a young girl in school. She made her first Olympic team at the age of 19, and she shares how she struggled at those games due to the emotions from the terrorist attack at the Olympic village in Munich. Francie discusses racing in the first Olympic 10,000m in 1988, and she gets emotional talking about what it was like to carry the flag at the opening ceremony for the US at the 1992 games in Barcelona.
Francie also provides us with insight into the early days of drug testing and how she approached competing against dirty athletes during her 20+ year career. As an athlete and later as a coach, Francie has dedicated her life to the sport of track and field. She's a role model for any athlete to emulate, male or female, and it's a great honor to have her on the podcast.
She won 6 Paralympic medals including 5 golds. She competed in two Olympics in the 1500m and 5000m. She won 3 national titles in both the 1500m and 5000m on the track. She won US road championships at 4 different distances from the 5K up to the marathon. She finished 4th at the NYC Marathon, and she did it all as a legally blind athlete who never viewed her condition as a limitation or excuse.
In this fascinating conversation, Kara and Chris talk to Marla Runyan about her journey in sport from playing soccer as a kid to learning to high jump in her backyard after watching the 1984 Olympics to turning to the heptathlon in college and eventually to becoming one of the greatest distance runners in US history. Marla shares the heartbreaking story of losing her central vision at the age of 9, but she also talks about why and how it never held her back on her way to becoming a four-time Olympian and Paralympian and many-time national champion.
Through many injuries and setbacks, Marla never let anything get in the way of her dreams and seemed only to rise higher after every bump in the road. In addition, Marla shares what it was like to compete against several US and international athletes that would later be convicted of doping, including what it was like to beat one of them to win the US 5000m title in 2001.
Marla provides great perspective on what is needed to promote a culture of clean and safe sport in track and field. Marla Runyan is a living inspiration, and we are so excited and honored to share her story with you.
You've heard the story of Frank Shorter and how he was robbed of a second gold medal in the 1976 Olympic Marathon (discussed in episode 15). But, have you heard the story of the fourth place finisher that day - American Don Kardong. He finished just 3 seconds out of bronze on that day and should be the rightful holder of that medal after the winner Waldemar Cierpinski was later implicated in a state-sponsored doping program in East Germany.
Even though the International Olympic Committee has acknowledged that cheating occurred, they have yet to correct the record because the statute of limitations has expired. Now 71 years old, Don still waits for his rightly-deserved medal. In this episode, Chris and Kara catch up with Don to hear his side of the story.
We discuss his beginnings in the sport when he joined cross country to stay fit for the basketball team. We hear about his decorated career at Stanford racing rival Steve Prefontaine from Oregon. Post-collegiately, Don shares how he continued to train to make the Olympic team, running two-a-days while working full-time as a 6th grade teacher in Spokane. He talks about making the 1976 Olympic team with Frank Shorter and Bill Rodgers but how no one expected him to perform well at the Games. He then gives all of the details of that bittersweet day in 1976 in Montreal including what he felt like during, immediately after, and of course nearly 2 decades later when he learned the news of Cierpinski's cheating.
Even though he was robbed on that day, Don has gone on to play so many important roles in our sport as a writer for Runner's World, President of the Road Runners Club of America, and founder and race director of the Lilac Bloomsday Run, one of the largest road races in the country. He also continues to give back to clean sport by helping race directors initiate drug testing programs through the Professional Road Running Organization (PRRO).
Because it is never too late to do the right thing, we want to see Don awarded his medal. He deserved it then, and he definitely deserves it now. Thank you to Don for sharing his story with us.
"I really need athletes and coaches and executives within national governing bodies to understand... there is no gray area." - Summer Sanders.
We agree. There is no gray area when it comes to clean sport. There is also no gray area when it comes to how much we loved this conversation with Summer Sanders. She is exactly the person you hope she would be - real, funny, relatable, and an absolute inspiration in sport and in life. She also happens to be a 4-time Olympic medalist (including 2 golds) and has an equally impressive career in sports commentating.
Kara and Shanna lead this conversation and cover many aspect's of Summer's story from her childhood growing up in California, splitting time between divorced parents who both shaped her as a person, to her meteoric rise to multiple Olympic gold medals by the age of 19 and to her extensive resume in sports broadcasting.
Summer shares so many great stories in this episode. She talks about how barely missing an Olympic team at the age of 15 was exactly the failure she needed at the time. She describes every detail of her final gold-medal winning race in Barcelona and what it was like standing on the podium while the Star Spangled Banner played.
She discusses her life-long dream of being on TV and how that led to her career in broadcasting after the 1992 Olympics. Summer gets emotional talking about her experiences as a runner including her first marathon in NYC and running Boston in 2013, where she left the finish line just 15 minutes before the first bomb went off on Boylston.
Of course, we also ask her about the clean sport culture in swimming, when she became aware of doping herself, and how she dealt with it during her career. Then, we close with her hopes for the future of sport which are as black and white as they can be when it comes to this very important topic.
Summer is a hero to many in the pool and in front of the camera. We were absolutely honored to have her join us.
Those are the words of author, performance coach, and Clean Sport Collective contributor Brad Stulberg. Brad is co-author of Peak Performance and The Passion Paradox with episode #26 guest Steve Magness.
Through his writing and his one-on-one performance coaching practice, he has made it his life's work to help people become better versions of themselves - the clean way. In addition to his books, you can also learn more about his principles for clean performance enhancement on his podcast with Steve Magness called The Growth Equation.
In this wide-ranging conversation, Shanna and Chris talk to Brad about his journey to helping people in this way and how it exposed him to the dark sides of enhancing performance, particularly in environments outside of sport such as the workplace. Brad provides great perspective on big clean-sport questions from the seemingly obvious - "Why is doping wrong?" - to the more complex - "Why not just make doping legal for all to level the playing field?"
Brad talks about his conversations with elite athletes like Shalane Flanagan on how they might deal with their thoughts and frustrations on doping in sport, and he gives us some outside-the-box, yet practical, solutions to the problem. As a bonus, we get some really helpful tips from Brad on dealing with the stress and uncertainty of the COVID-19 pandemic.
We appreciate Brad's perspective because he has a magical way of bringing simplicity to complex topics. This is a fascinating and provocative discussion that we think you will enjoy. Thank you to Brad for joining us!
Jon Rankin is a self-described dreamer, and his story is one that is packed with equal doses of heartbreak and inspiration. In this conversation with Kara and Chris, you will hear about how he fell in love with the sport at the age of 14 watching Michael Johnson earn double golds in the 200 and 400 in Atlanta in 1996 and promptly announced to his parents that he would be an Olympian some day.
You will hear about his up-and-down high school career where he overcame a performance plateau his senior year to receive just enough attention from UCLA to make the team as a walk-on.
You will hear about his breakthrough performance to win the US Junior Championship in the 1500m his freshman year only to suffer 7 stress fractures over the next 2 years pushing him to nearly quit the team. You will hear about him learning to fall in love with the sport again and how that led him to break 4 minutes in the mile and run 17 straight PRs in his final outdoor track season at UCLA, which earned him a contract to continue his dream as a professional.
You will hear about him finishing 6th at the Olympic Trials in 2008 only to find out shortly thereafter that he had a terminal kidney disease and might only have months to live. You will hear the gut-wrenching emotion in his voice as he talks about how that news ended his career, contrasted with the joy he experienced when an experimental stem cell treatment miraculously cured the disease.
And of course, you will hear about his perspective on clean sport and why he has become an advocate for it since his time on the track including why he believes that the culture must be changed by the athletes from within.
Jon is now the founder of the apparel company Go Be More, and he's made it his mission to inspire others to pursue their dreams just like he did. We appreciate him sharing his story with us.
Liz McColgan is a legend and pioneer in the sport of track and field. She won the first-ever women's 10K at the Commonwealth Games in 1986. She competed in the first-ever Olympic 10,000 meter event for women in Seoul in 1988 (and earned a silver). She became a World Champion in 1991 just 9 months after giving birth to her daughter. She won the first-ever World Half Marathon Championship for women in 1992, and she won 3 World Marathon Majors (before they were called that) with victories in NYC, London, and Tokyo.
She was also a pioneer in less fortunate ways as an athlete who lost gold medals to dopers and who lost her sponsorship with Nike due to pregnancy. Both experiences almost ended her career prematurely. Through it all, she remained the same hard-working, fiercely-competitive athlete with integrity who believed in doing things the right way.
In this episode with Kara and Chris, Liz holds nothing back as we discuss it all from being bullied growing up in Scotland to competing in those pioneering days for women's athletics and now to coaching kids and elite athletes (including her daughter Eilish and US marathoner Allie Kieffer) in a sport at risk due to doping, shoe technology and the power dynamics within governing bodies.
Liz provides great perspective on competing herself in an era dominated by steroids and EPO as well as what she believes should be done to level the playing field and clean up the sport today (hint: lifetime bans for athletes AND coaches plus standardized shoe specs). What you see (and hear) is what you get with Liz McColgan, and we are proud to amplify her voice.
"We all have dreams. But in order to make dreams come into reality, it takes an awful lot of determination, dedication, self-discipline, and effort." - Jesse Owens.
Tianna Bartoletta is no stranger to determination, dedication, self-discipline, and effort. She won 9 high school state titles to match her idol from the same state of Ohio - Jesse Owens. She went to the University of Tennessee on a full academic scholarship. She became a world champion in the long jump at the age of 19. Over the next 12 years, she won 8 other global championship medals including 5 more golds. She is the reigning Olympic champion and hopes to defend that title in Tokyo next summer.
Her journey, however, has been far from easy. From facing failure in high school to the ups and downs of a pro career where she questioned whether or not she would ever return to the top of her event, Chris and Shanna discuss it all with her in this episode.
In particular, we dig into her perspective on clean sport as someone who was robbed of a gold medal (which has since been upgraded) from the 2006 World Indoor Championship. She talks about how that "disappointing" silver medal would lead her to make changes in her career that almost ended it. She also discusses how sponsors and the structure of contracts encourage doping in sport as well as the responsibility of athletes to comply with the whereabouts filing system.
Beyond athletics, Tianna's voice is perhaps even more important as she stands up for what's right through her blog. This includes defying her sponsor to speak up for Mary Cain and the abuse she suffered as a member of the Nike Oregon Project.
Tianna's energy in this discussion is infectious. Her advocacy for doing what's right - for clean sport and beyond - is strong and powerful. Her dreams extend well beyond the track, and we know that her idol Jesse Owens would be so proud of her.
With this episode, we welcome back Travis Tygart to the show. Travis is the CEO of the US Anti-Doping Agency and was our very first guest to join the podcast in episode #1.
In this episode, Kara and Chris chat with Travis on the latest in clean sport news including the impact of the pandemic and the delayed Olympics on anti-doping efforts in the US and around the world. Travis talks about the initial impact of the stay-at-home orders on USADA in March and the details behind Project Believe, a program to experiment with virtual testing during this time which could change the future of drug testing.
We dig into the whereabouts filing system, how it works, and whether or not Travis believes there is a rise in those cases and suspensions in the last 12 months. Travis also provides details on the Rodchenkov Act and its progress in Congress, plus what it means to criminalize doping in the United States. Finally, we discuss the recent threats by the US Congress and the White House to defund the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) including USADA's perspective and the potential impact of such a decision.
We are excited to have Travis back on the show and couldn't be more appreciative of his support of the podcast over the last 13 months.
You might know Sanya Richards-Ross as an athlete, but do you know Sanya Richards-Ross as a person?
When it comes to the 400 meters, Sanya Richards-Ross is one of the greatest of all-time. She has 14 global championship medals including 10 golds. She's a world and Olympic champion. She's run under 50 seconds a record 49 times and still owns the US national record of 48.70 from 2006. It is fascinating to dig into what made her so great on the track, but perhaps more fascinating is what made her want to do it clean and do it with integrity.
In this interview, Kara and Chris dig into both with Sanya. We discuss growing up in Jamaica where she fell in love with running at a very early age. We learn about her influences from her parents, who guided her closely throughout her career, to her coaches and to her idols like Jackie Joyner-Kersee. We talk about her faith and what drove her to want to be great and to do it the right way, while also enduring physical, mental, and emotional hardships throughout her career.
Sanya shares her perspective on doping, the whereabouts filing system, and how she didn't even take vitamins during her career in order to avoid any potential supplement contamination. We also ask about life off the track, which is now as busy as ever as she juggles her family life with a young son, multiple business opportunities, writing books and broadcasting, and setting an example for Black moms through her blog site mommination.com.
Finally, Sanya provides her thoughts on what she wants for the future for her son and for other young athletes that might follow in her footsteps. Sanya is certainly an amazing athlete, but she is an even better human and we are excited to share our conversation with her.
Christian Taylor is a name you need to know. He’s one of the most dominant athletes in his discipline – the triple jump. He’s won 6 of the last 7 global outdoor championships dating back to 2011 including 2 Olympic and 4 World Championship gold medals. He is President of the recently formed Athletics Association, an athlete’s union created to advocate for athlete-centered change in the sport. And, he is an outspoken advocate for clean sport.
In this wide-ranging interview, Kara and Chris begin by discussing Christian’s childhood growing up as a multi-sport athlete where he played soccer, football, and golf before initially turning to run cross country as a way to stay in shape for soccer. Christian laughs as he describes those early cross country meets where he would use his sprint skills to lead for the first 400m meters of the race before falling back as the finish line approached. Those experiences “sucking wind” on longer courses would eventually lead him to the track where he could use his speed instead. In high school, he became a dominant force in the long jump, triple jump, and 400m dash before winning a World Youth Championship at 17 years old.
Christian discusses his success in high school and how that led him to the University of Florida where he won 3 NCAA titles and dominated the triple jump along with teammates and rivals Omar Craddock and Will Claye. Christian talks about his first World Championship gold medal at the age of 21 and how words of inspiration from his idol during the meet helped propel him to a huge personal best jump and first senior outdoor title. He gives his keys to success over the last 9 years including what it took to change lead legs for his jumps to protect his knee, a process he equates to changing your dominant writing hand. He is now the only athlete to win two Olympic gold medals while jumping with different lead legs.
Then, we turn to his advocacy for clean sport and athlete rights including why he is passionate about both and what he hopes to accomplish as President of the Athletics Association. We discuss his experience with the whereabouts filing system including how many missed tests he’s had in the last nine years and why he places responsibility on the athlete and agent for any issue with missed tests. Finally, Christian shares his perspective growing up as a black man in the US including how recent events have affected him and what he hopes to see happen next.
Christian is an amazing ambassador for our sport. He brings so much joy and hope to this interview. We know you will be a fan of his and the triple jump after you listen!
Matt Taylor grew up in the industrial city of Pittsburgh, PA with a family history in the steel and coal industries. As that city (and its industries evolved), his father lost his job with a steel company. His dad's career struggles and then watching his mom start a store of her own planted a seed for Matt that he wanted to eventually pursue entrepreneurship as well.
Meanwhile, he played basketball and ran track and cross country growing up which began a connection to sport that he would eventually carry with him to Yale and then well beyond into his career.
In this conversation with Shanna and Chris, Matt shares his journey from playing basketball and running track as a kid to founding Tracksmith in 2014. He tells the story of the handwritten and hand-delivered letter that got him his first career break at IMG. He talks about what he learned about product, branding, and the opportunities in the running world while working with Usain Bolt at Puma.
He gives us the inside story on the beginnings of Tracksmith, well before he had a name for it. Then, he shares how and why Tracksmith approaches building the sport the way it does, including its grassroots effort to put kits on over 130 athletes at this year's Olympic Marathon Trials. Finally, Matt talks about what it means for a brand like Tracksmith to support clean sport while he calls out the biggest founder and brand in running for not doing more.
The importance of brand allies in the fight for #cleansport cannot be stressed enough. We thank Tracksmith for being one of those allies, and we encourage you as listeners to support them and other brands who have signed the clean sport pledge.
Imagine missing the Olympic team by .14 seconds in 2008 after working so hard to return from having twins and becoming a mom the first time. Then four years later, imagine nearly tearing your hamstring off the bone just a few months before the Olympic Trials, putting your shot at redemption in doubt. Imagine traveling to Germany away from your kids to see a special doctor and working so hard every day in rehab just to make it to the Olympic Trials to earn a spot on the team. Imagine the relief of making that team, the additional month of painful, hard work to try to get to 100%, and then imagine earning a silver medal in front of a packed Olympic stadium in London.
Now, imagine being so fiercely competitive and believing so firmly that you were the best that you viewed that medal as a disappointment because it wasn't gold. Imagine 8 years later in 2020 that you wait in limbo as a court of arbitration is set to determine whether or not the woman that beat you that day was a doper. Imagine the victory lap not run, the US anthem not played, and the lost moment of glory that you could have shared with your twins who were there that day. Imagine the lost bonus and future earnings that would have been associated with being an Olympic gold medalist. And imagine all of the private moments of mental anguish as you beat yourself up and second-guessed every step in a race that you lost by .07 seconds. Imagine not knowing if you were just great or truly the very best in the world that day.
There is one person who doesn't have to imagine it because she lived it, and that's 400m hurdler Lashinda Demus. In this episode with Kara and Shanna, you will hear about it all and also learn that that this story only scratches the surface of the strong and fascinating woman that Lashinda is. She is a world junior champion, a world champion, officially-for-now an Olympic silver medalist, a mom of 4 boys, a clean sport advocate, and a badass on and off the track that we promise will inspire you. We are very honored and proud to introduce you to Lashinda Demus.
Many remember Gary Hall, Jr as the 10-time Olympic medalist (five gold, three silver, two bronze) who dominated in the 50 and 100m freestyle for 3 Olympics. Or, they remember his bold antics on the pool deck from wearing a boxing robe and shorts to line up behind the blocks to talking trash with the Australians in advance of the 4 x 100m freestyle relay in Sydney in 2000.
But, do you know the Gary Hall, Jr who twice left renowned swim coaches to take a different path because he knew his body needed something different than the traditional approach at the time? Do you know the Gary Hall, Jr who is the Type 1 diabetic who learned to compete at the highest level with the disease even though doctors initially told him it would end his career? Or, do you know the Gary Hall, Jr who was so outspoken about doping during his career that he was sued by a fellow swimmer after speaking out about her association with the BALCO scandal?
In this episode, Kara and Chris interview Gary and get to it all. We discuss his early years in sport, where in spite of having an Olympic swimmer as a father and uncle (and grandfather who was a collegiate champion), he stayed away from the sport initially opting to play baseball, soccer, and basketball instead.
Once he became a swimmer, he began training heavily pretty quickly but struggled early on until he found his home in the sprint events. He talks about his meteoric rise in the sport to make an Olympic team in 1996 in Atlanta at 21 where he finished second in the 50 and 100m freestyle to Russian Alexander Popov. We ask him if the recent Russian doping scandals make him rethink his experience in those Olympics. From there, we shift to discuss his longevity in the sport as a clean athlete who excelled in 3 Olympics and what made him so outspoken on the topic of clean sport when no one else was talking about it in the early to mid 2000s.
As we conclude, Gary provides some really interesting insight on the regulation of speed suits in swimming, the indirect complicity of drug companies in doping scandals, and why private investigators need to be a more pervasive tool in the fight for clean sport. With Gary, it is clear that what you see and hear is what you get. He gave us his unvarnished perspective on every single question, and it's an honor for us to elevate his voice.
In this episode, we learn the fascinating back story of how Aisha Praught Leer became a Commonwealth Games champion in the steeplechase, while also evolving into an outspoken champion for #cleansport.
Aisha grew up in Illinois where she competed in a variety of sports but developed an initial focus in competitive cheerleading. In a twist of fate, cheerleading politics led her to quit that sport and turn her attention to the track where she found her niche in the mile before later adding the steeplechase while in college at Illinois State University. At Illinois State, she finished 2nd in the indoor mile in her senior year which would pave the way for her to turn pro and join the Oregon Track Club, where she made both World Championship and Olympic teams in 2015 and 2016, competing for Jamaica.
Later, she would move to Boulder to be coached by Joe Bosshard and train with steeplechase World Champion Emma Coburn (and others). After a disappointing 2017 World Championships, she came back strong in 2018 at the Commonwealth Games in the race of her life where she earned a gold medal in the steeplechase with a come-from-behind victory over Kenyan Celliphine Cesspol.
In this interview, Kara and Chris discuss it all with Aisha including how she came to compete for Jamaica, what it was like turning pro including the "baptism by fire" that was joining the Oregon Track Club, why she made the switch to train with Emma Coburn in Colorado, and what it's been like living in a two-athlete household with her husband and fellow pro runner Will Leer.
Finally, Aisha provides her perspective on clean sport by sharing her first exposure to other athletes doping and what has led to her be more outspoken on the topic. She talks about how cheaters change the dynamics of races and how the psychological impact of cheating goes well beyond the result for clean athletes. She calls for lifetime bans for dopers, and she gives crystal clear ideas on what can be done to build a better future. We know it's not easy to stand up and use your voice, but we can't thank Aisha enough for leading by example with both her actions and her words.
Betsy Andreu was there when Lance Armstrong first admitted to doping in a hospital room in Indianapolis while preparing for cancer treatment. She heard him rattle off the performance-enhancing drugs (PEDs) that he used well before winning his first tour including EPO, HGH, cortisone, and steroids. She was shocked not just by this revelation but also by the lack of surprise exhibited by everyone else in the room including his coach, business associates, sponsors, and yes, her now-husband Frankie who was one of Lance's cycling teammates. That moment would change her life forever.
Growing up in Dearborn, Michigan, however, there was no way to know the path that would lead Betsy Andreu to become one of the most important truth teller's in the Lance Armstrong story. She came from humble beginnings growing up in a Slavic family there, but it gave her a foundation built on principle that has never wavered. She has always told the truth about what she heard and saw because it was the right thing to do.
In this interview, Kara and Shanna begin by understanding Betsy's background and history built on principle. Then, they discuss her relationship with Frankie including how it began and how it survived the revelations about Lance as well as Frankie's own EPO use. Betsy tells the story of the moment when she knew Frankie himself was using PEDs as he led a climb in the Tour de France in 1999, the year of Lance's first Tour victory. Plus, she discusses the aftermath and an argument with Frankie at Lance's victory party which would ultimately lead to Frankie leaving the team, effectively ending his cycling career.
Finally, Betsy discusses her journey as a truth teller including the reasons why she told the truth about what she heard in that hospital room and all of the very real personal pain and suffering she and Frankie have endured as a result of the backlash from Lance and his team. As a contributor to it, she also provides her perspective on part 1 of the Lance Armstrong 30 for 30 documentary on ESPN and what she is expecting from part 2.
Betsy Andreu might be an unlikely hero in this story, but she is a hero indeed. We need more like her who are willing to stand on principle and tell the truth no matter the circumstances.
It is easy to villify those who have made bad decisions. When someone is willing to tell the whole truth, show remorse, and help build a better future, however, then we believe their story should be told to perhaps prevent others from making the same choices. With that in mind, we bring you this interview with cycling whistleblower Floyd Landis.
Born and raised in the Mennonite community in southeastern Pennsylvania, Floyd started his career in cycling as a mountain biker. He had quick success there winning a junior national championship before switching to the roads where he turned pro in 1999.
After racing for the Mercury Cycling Team, he was noticed by one Lance Armstrong and joined the US Postal Service Team in 2002, where he served as a domestique for 3 of Lance's seven tour victories. It was also on the US Postal Team that he began experimenting with PEDs for the first time under the guidance of Dr. Michele Ferrari.
In 2005, Floyd joined Team Phonak and would become its team leader after teammate Tyler Hamilton was banned for a positive test at the 2004 Olympics. That led to a top 10 finish in the 2005 tour and the outright victory in 2006. 4 days later, Floyd had his own doping positive for synthetic testosterone which began a 4 year period of denial as he fought the allegations and subsequent suspension.
Finally in 2010, Floyd confessed and came clean about his own actions in what became one of the primary links in the chain to expose the truth about Lance Armstrong.
In this interview, Kara and Shanna question Floyd about it all with a primary focus on understanding what he thought and felt at every stage of his now-infamous journey into the dark side of the sport of cycling. He details the long process behind his own decision to cheat including the openness with which PEDs were discussed by insiders in the sport and what he felt when he put on that first testosterone patch.
He tells us what he was thinking on the top of the Tour de France podium and the anguish associated with the 4 year journey after that before he told the truth in 2010. Floyd also responds to one specific quote about him that airs in the ESPN 30 for 30 on Lance Armstrong to be released in two parts with part 1 on May 24th and part 2 on May 31st.
Plus, you hear why he ultimately told the truth and whether or not he is sorry for what he did. We want to thank Floyd for his openness and honesty. We believe sharing the truth behind his story matters, even though he chose the other path. His truth can make a difference for the future of clean sport.
In this episode, we dig into the story behind the stories as Shanna and Kara interview NY Times journalist Lindsay Crouse. In 2019, Lindsay helped break two of the biggest stories of the year, one with Alysia Montano and Allyson Felix on maternity rights for athletes and the other with Mary Cain on her abuse while training with Alberto Salazar at the Nike Oregon Project. Both stories drove critical conversations and paved the path for change in the areas of #dreammaternity and #fixgirlssports. Interestingly, breaking these stories is not Lindsay's main job at the NY Times, and at least one of these stories took nearly 6 years to tell.
In this episode, Shanna and Kara dig into Lindsay's circuitous journey to live her dream in working for the NY Times, while pursuing a parallel dream to qualify for the Olympic Trials in the marathon. Lindsay talks about her childhood aspirations to attend Harvard even though no one from her town in Rhode Island ever had. She discusses her early running career and how she ultimately earned a spot at Harvard to both run and study for her future in journalism.
The path to the NY Times was far from straightforward, however, as Lindsay moved to New York City and had several other jobs before landing her NY Times opportunity. Even then, she had to rely on her own entrepreneurial spirit and instincts to find and tell these important stories, including an initial off-the-record conversation in 2014 with Shanna and Kara on her treatment by Nike during pregnancy.
Finally, Lindsay shares the painstaking and thoughtful work required to verify facts, confirm information from sources, frame the conversation, and ultimately to tell the stories in a way that will resonate with readers in order to provoke much-needed conversations. The work isn't easy, but Lindsay does it well and with integrity. We can't thank her enough for simply giving athletes a platform to tell the truth and to use their voices to drive change in our sport.
Ben Rosario is the founder and head coach of Team NAZ Elite sponsored by Hoka, but he has done it all in our sport. He's competed in 2 Olympic Marathon Trials, finished 2nd in the US Marathon Championships, owned a running store in St. Louis, directed meets and events, and coached athletes of all levels. He, of course, coaches 4 of our prior guests from this year including Scott Fauble, Stephanie Bruce, Kellyn Taylor, and Olympic Trials Champion Aliphine Tuliamuk.
Having seen the sport of running from all sides, Ben brings a sharp and unique perspective to a host of important topics from how you innovate in marketing as a team to how you create a better culture for clean sport globally. Kara and Chris lead this episode starting with Ben on his beginnings and early inspirations in the sport. We talk about how and why he became a coach, how he developed the strong team dynamic at NAZ Elite, and of course, what it was like to cheer on his athletes to incredible finishes at the US Marathon Trials including Aliphine's victory.
Then, we turn to his perspective on clean sport from his time as an athlete to what he believes needs to be done to truly make a difference in the fight against doping in our sport. Finally, we cover his team's approach to the current pandemic and what they are doing to stay ready for the delayed Olympics next year, including some fun ways that fans can engage in their journey.
Ben is making big waves in our sport through Team NAZ Elite. He is direct and to the point about how to make our sport cleaner and more inspiring for all levels of athletes, and we are proud to help elevate his voice.
With this week's guest, we shift from a legend in the hurdles to a legend in the mile as Shanna and Chris interview Jim Ryun. In 1964, Jim Ryun burst on the track scene at the age of 17 by running the first sub-4-minute mile by a high school boy. He did it after only 2 years as a runner, and then just a month later, he would earn a spot on the US Olympic team for the 1964 Tokyo Games. Of course, that was just the beginning of a storied career that included 3 Olympic Games, an Olympic Silver Medal, and 6 world records.
In this conversation, Jim talks about what led him to try cross country in the first place, a hard first practice that almost made him quit, the teammates that kept him going, and of course the turning point where he realized he might be pretty good thanks to the wisdom and foresight of his coach. He shares the stories of his first Olympic experience in Tokyo as a 17-year-old and then the come-from-behind silver medal in the 1968 Games in Mexico City, including an apology that would come later from a Kenyan competitor in the same race. He discusses his attitude toward doping including when he first became aware of others using performance enhancing drugs including rumors of blood doping involving Lasse Viren from the 1972 Games.
Beyond the accolades and the talent, Jim gives us a window into what made him the athlete he was on the track through his faith, his incredible support system, and a work ethic that was fostered by a coach that really cared. Jim was a fierce competitor on the track, but you will hear a humble and gentle spirit in this interview that will bring a smile to your face.
Edwin Moses began participating in track and field at an early age, but no one could have predicted where it would take him. Undersized in high school, he wasn't recruited to run track in college, and instead, went to Morehouse College on an academic scholarship to study physics. Morehouse didn't even have a track on campus, but Edwin kept training anyway using other facilities around Atlanta.
While still at Morehouse, everything would change for him in 1976 when he ran his first 400m hurdle race and discovered his signature event. Just 4 months later, he would win Olympic gold and set a world record in the event in Montreal. That victory began a run of dominance in the event that would last more than a decade and include 2 gold medals and a bronze medal at the Olympics, plus a victory streak of 122 straight races that lasted almost 10 years.
In 1988 while still competing, he helped create the sport's first process for out-of-competition drug testing. Now as a board member for the US Anti Doping Agency (USADA), he continues to advocate for clean sport with the goal to ensure a level playing field for all athletes.
In this episode, Chris and Kara interview Edwin to discuss it all. Edwin is undeniably the greatest 400m hurdler of all-time, but his impact off the track has perhaps been even more great. We can't thank him enough for his lifelong commitment to clean sport and for continuing to lead by example with action and not just words.
In this episode, we mix things up with a get-to-know-your-hosts episode followed by listener questions. Kara takes the lead to interview co-hosts Shanna Burnette and Chris McClung. She asks about how they are both coping with the quarantine life balancing full-time jobs and 3 kids each. Then, digs into their backgrounds in sport and the key life moments that made them who they are today.
You will learn about Shanna's path to becoming a state champion in Nevada and the devastating moment she learned of her father's passing while at the University of Colorado and how it would change her life forever. You will hear about Chris's background growing up in a small town in Texas, playing soccer and how a seemingly minor decision in middle school led to other major life decisions where he chose to go against the grain.
Finally, we discuss how Shanna and Chris became passionate about the fight for clean sport before this podcast ever began, and then as a group, we answer your listener questions on a handful of clean sport topics from virtual testing during this pandemic to the biological passport to our dream guests for the podcast.
We had a ton of fun recording this episode and hope you enjoy getting to know us a little better!
Bob Kennedy is one of the most talented and consistent distance runners in US history. During his career, he was a 2-time Olympian, earned American records in the 3000m, 2 mile, and 5000m races and became the first non-African runner to break 13:00 in the 5000.
As he says himself in this interview, if it wasn't for performance-enhancing drugs (PED), he would probably be an Olympic medalist. Instead, he would "settle" for 6th place in the 5000m at the Olympics in 1996 where he took the lead with 2 laps to go in front of an electric crowd in Atlanta. Is he bitter about how that race ended or does he view it as one of his finest moments?
Find out the answer to that question and so many more in this interview with Chris and guest host Adam Goucher. Bob was precocious performer from an early age winning a national high school cross country (XC) title and then becoming one of only a few men to win NCAA XC as a freshman. After a decorated career running at Indiana University he was one of only a few Americans who could compete well against international fields in the 1990s in what would become an era marked by rampant EPO use before testing for the PED began in 2000.
While competing clean, he pushed himself by training with East African athletes and treating his training and each race "like a business." Chris and Adam dig into all of it with Bob including the mindset that made him one of the best in the world against a playing field that was far from level. Plus, Adam and Bob trade behind-the-scenes stories on 3 consecutive 5000m national championships where they competed head to head in 1999, 2000, and 2001. Spoiler alert: Adam won the first two of those before being outsmarted by Bob in a race for the ages in 2001.
Finally, we end by talking about what Bob hopes for the future of the sport so that his daughter can enjoy it the way he did. Bob inspired a generation of athletes by showing other US runners that they could compete with the best in the world and do it the right way. We are honored to help share his story.
We could all use a smile or two right now, and we believe this interview will give you just that. Jessie Diggins and her teammate Kikkan Randall won the first ever gold medal for the US in cross country skiing in the Winter Olympics in 2018. You might remember the epic finish as Jessie outsprinted a Swedish and Norwegian athlete to earn gold by half a ski before collapsing and being jumped on by Kikkan in celebration. It was a beautiful moment, but as you will learn in this interview with Kara and Chris, Jessie's story is so much bigger than one moment.
She was on skis before she could walk and showed promise early on. We talk about her journey as a clean athlete from her childhood to early success as a ski racer in high school and then her entry into international racing against the dominant Nordic countries. She discusses a day in the life of training and how the US has made such great strides internationally in the sport, even before her Olympic medal. She tells the story of her own battle with an eating disorder and how she shifted her mindset to focus on what her body can do vs. how it looks.
In addition, she gives insight into the clean sport culture in XC ski racing and how she was heartbroken just last year when an athlete she knew was busted for blood doping. Then finally, she takes us through her gold medal race moment by moment from her mindset on the start line through to every pole push down the finishing straight and how she didn't even know who jumped on her in celebration because she was seeing stars from the effort.
As we said, Jessie's positive energy will make you smile, and we couldn't be more excited and honored to have her on the podcast. Join Jessie for the virtual launch of her book Brave Enough on April 7th at 11 am EST. You can find all of the details here:
https://loft.org/olympic-training-jessie-diggins
We can't wait to read her full story. She is brave enough indeed.
We are excited to wrap up this series for Women's History Month by interviewing Sally Bergesen, the Founder and CEO of Oiselle. Sally Bergesen founded Oiselle in 2007 and since then has been making both better apparel and big waves in the sport of running.
In this interview with Kara and Chris, you will hear about her childhood growing up in Berkeley, CA as a self-proclaimed troublemaker including one funny example of challenging authority in her home economics class. From there, she discusses her parallel journey as a runner and on the road to founding Oiselle, where she has had a big impact as an advocate for women and for a better sport for future generations.
We talk about sports governance, #dreammaternity (and Oiselle's role modeling there since 2013), and particularly what brands can do to advocate for clean sport. Sally was a troublemaker as a child and is now a troublemaker (in a good way) in our sport. We can't thank her enough for her fearless leadership to promote positive change.
On April 19th, 1967, Kathrine Switzer became the first woman to officially finish the Boston Marathon in a time of 4 hours and 20 minutes. During the race, she was attacked by race official Jock Semple who tried to pull her off the course. Jock would not succeed, but the iconic photo of him trying would create an indelible image that would change the future of women in sport forever.
From that day forward Kathrine became a catalyst for change, leading the way for women to be able to officially race in the NYC and Boston Marathons as well as the Olympics, all while continuing to compete and win races herself.
Kara and Shanna lead this interview and get to it all. With Boston postponed this year until September, we hope this interview, rich in history from Boston, will tide you over until then. Kathrine has been leading change for women in sport for decades, and it was an honor for us to chat with her. While we know it is not enough, we bow low and say "thank you" to Kathrine for paving the way for so many.
Nancy Hogshead-Makar is an American swimmer who won 3 gold and 1 silver medal at the 1984 Olympics. She was a champion in the pool from a very early age, but her impact on sport and particularly for women in sport extends well beyond the pool.
With a law degree from Georgetown University, she's been a long-time champion for women on issues including equal play, Title IX compliance, sexual harassment, abuse and assault, as well as employment, pregnancy, and LGBT discrimination. She is currently the CEO of Champion Women, an organization leading targeted efforts to change policy and advocate for equality and accountability in sport.
Shanna and Kara interview Nancy to discuss all of it. It's impossible to truly understand and summarize Nancy's story in a few sentences so we just encourage you to listen, be a fan, and consider ways to stand with Nancy as a champion for women in sport. We are so thankful to have her leading the way for so many.
It seems all too perfect for International Women's Day to fall on the same day as the release of this interview. For this episode, we are excited to talk with the new queen of US marathoning Aliphine Tuliamuk who won the US Olympic Marathon Trials last weekend in Atlanta to punch her ticket to Tokyo.
Aliphine is a living example of the American dream. She's Kenya-born, one of 32 children, and moved to the US for college, becoming a US citizen in 2016. She now trains with team Hoka NAZ Elite under coach Ben Rosario. At the Trials, she and teammates Stephanie Bruce and Kellyn Taylor finished 1st, 6th, and 8th respectively to show the power of women working and training together.
In this interview, Kara and Shanna chat with Aliphine and get to hear her story from her beginnings in Kenya all the way through the finishing tape in Atlanta as an American Champion. Aliphine discusses adapting to life in the US, her collegiate career, transitioning to pro running without a contract for the first several years, almost quitting a few times, and surviving several major injuries before finally finding her home at NAZ Elite.
Yes, she is a fast runner, but she is so much more than that as a bright light in our sport. You will see what we mean when you listen to Aliphine talk about her desire to be a nurse or when she discusses clean sport and the young girls she wants to inspire at the finish line of the NYC Mini 10K. We couldn't be more proud to have Aliphine representing the US in the Tokyo Olympics this summer!
We are excited to kick off a new month with a new theme! March is National Women’s History month so this month’s guests will all be badass women who are athletes and/or advocates for clean sport. For this first episode of the month, we interview Nike-sponsored athlete from the Bowerman Track Club – Colleen Quigley.
We often get the critique that we are anti-Nike, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. We are simply pro-clean sport, and we will condemn actions by Nike or any brand that are against our mission. At the same time, we will celebrate actions by Nike or any brand that further the cause. As just one example, Colleen Quigley and her teammates at the Bowerman Track Club should be celebrated, and we are excited to share this interview with you.
Colleen is an NCAA champion and Olympian in the steeplechase which means she makes her living on the track hurdling barriers and water pits for 7.5 laps at a time. Her story is an interesting one because she didn’t move to the steeplechase until she went to college at Florida State University, but she took to it quickly and would ultimately fulfill her coach’s prediction that she would win an NCAA Championship in the event.
Kara and Chris chat with Colleen about her early days in the sport, her collegiate years at FSU, and of course her transition to the pro ranks at the Bowerman Track Club, where she trains with the fastest group of women in the country. Colleen discusses her secrets to striving for excellence and what it’s like to train with such an amazing group and now be coached by the great Shalane Flanagan.
Then, we dig into the tough topics including prominent doping violations within her event and within the Oregon Project at Nike itself. She discusses her own reaction to the Alberto Salazar suspension and Mary Cain revelations as well as the dynamics between the Bowerman team and the Oregon Project. Finally, we discuss the evolution of footwear including the impending application of Nike Vaporfly technology to the track and what should be done with shoe regulations.
What you see is what you get with Colleen, and we appreciate her courage and openness in our discussion. As someone who has signed the Clean Sport pledge, we believe in Colleen and will be cheering for her to make another Olympic team in Tokyo this summer!
Warning: if you listen to this episode, you might be inspired to run all-out hill repeats with an uncontrollable smile on your face. Sara's love and passion for running is THAT contagious! Sara is a 2:22 marathoner (#6 all-time), but like many of our interviewees in this series, her marathon time only tells a small part of the story. She is a multi-dimensional athlete and person, and Shanna and Kara explore it all in this discussion.
Sara talks about her running career including how it began exploring the woods as a kid alone in her home state of California. She discusses her time at Stanford and what she learned from the great coach Dena Evans. She gives details on how her relationship with Ryan Hall began and how it has evolved through his elite running career to the present day with him as her coach. She shares what led them to adopt 4 orphan girls from Ethiopia and what it's been like integrating them into their life here in the US. And of course, we get her perspective on shoes and clean sport and how she wishes we could all experience the purity of the sport she fell in love with in the woods as a kid.
Sara is one of the nicest people we know, but don't let that fool you. She is also a fierce competitor and will no doubt be making waves on the course in Atlanta. We can't wait to cheer her on as she tries to make her Olympic dream come true. Go Sara!
This episode concludes our series interviewing 9 of the top contenders for the Olympic Marathon Trials this weekend. It all started with Desiree Linden in episode #27 and continued with episodes #30-37 including Molly Huddle, Shadrack Biwott, Emily Sisson, Scott Fauble, Stephanie Bruce, Jared Ward, Kellyn Taylor, and this final one with Sara Hall. You have a few days left to binge-listen if you haven't already to get fully prepped for the big day on February 29th! We hope to see you at our shake-out run on Saturday at 8:30 am. For more details, check out our twitter or instagram feed @cleansportco.
Kellyn Taylor is a 2:24 marathoner and ranked #7 on the US all-time list, but her story is so much more interesting than a time on the clock. She's also training to be a firefighter, has a passion for fostering children, and is working to instill her trademark mental toughness in her own daughter. In this interview led by Kara and Shanna, we cover it all.
Kellyn tells us about her Wisconsin roots where she grew up doing gymnastics and playing soccer before running became her primary sport. She talks about her transition into pro running with MacMillan Elite before she made the shift to work with Ben Rosario at NAZ Elite.
She gives us the details behind her running highs and lows including two narrow misses for making the Olympic team in 2016 in both the marathon and 10K, her DNF at Boston in 2018 in nor'easter conditions, and her big PR in 2:24 at the Grandma's Marathon just 8 short weeks after the Boston disappointment. In addition, she shares personal stories about returning from pregnancy to run again and the roller-coaster ride it can be as a foster parent.
Finally, we discuss the clean sport culture within NAZ Elite and Kellyn's perspective on the great shoe debate, including why she believes that all carbon fiber plates should be banned. Like her teammates from this interview series Steph Bruce and Scott Fauble, Kellyn is an open book who isn't afraid to tell it like it is, and we appreciate her so much for that. We are excited to cheer her on from the sidelines in Atlanta next weekend!
As mentioned in the closing to the interview, you can meet the Clean Sport Collective podcast co-hosts in Atlanta on Saturday (Feb 29). We will be offering a 3-mile shake-out run with Kara, Shanna, and Chris at 8:30 am from the Olympic Rings in Centennial Olympic Park near the Trials finish line. Come for the run, meet the hosts, and get your CSC temporary tattoo to rep as you cheer for the Trials!
Jared Ward is an Olympian and 2:09 marathoner, but he might be more proud of his role as a father to 4, professor at BYU, virtual running coach, or ambassador to a Shark-Tank-featured company (MyoStorm). He is fast on the roads but "juggles" it all well off the race course as well.
In this interview, Kara and Chris dig in with Jared on his early running days and his patient progression from 21 minute 5K runner in early high school to finishing 6th at the Olympic Marathon in Rio. He talks about the object that inspired him to join his coach Ed Eyestone at BYU and the song that was stuck in his head for the entire Olympic Marathon Trials in 2016.
He discusses advice from his high school coach about goal setting, gives us all a lesson from his sister on what real balance looks like, and shares the insights he learned on Shark Tank that apply to his running career.
Plus, we talk about shoes and carbon plates, Alberto Salazar and Galen Rupp, and Jared's statistical chances at the upcoming Olympic Marathon Trials. Jared's positive outlook on running and life is contagious, and we thank him for the hope he brings to our sport!
In this episode, we stay with team NAZ Elite and interview Stephanie (Steph) Bruce. Not all superheroes wear capes and Steph Bruce is an example of that. You already know that she is fast (at both the marathon and 10K distances), but did you know that she's also a running coach, co-founder of Picky Bars, mom of two, and of course, advocate for women in sport and clean sport.
In this interview, Shanna and Chris interview Steph, and we cover a wide range of topics. She discusses her running journey including the gut-wrenching turning point that transformed her from disinterested high school runner into the person that would become a committed champion. She talks about the moments and people that would have pushed others to quit and why she refused to do so.
She talks about her first experience running against an athlete who would later be busted for doping and provides an interesting perspective on why the shoe debate matters and why it can be hard for others to understand that.
More than the stories and anecdotes, you learn that Steph's bright light comes from her raging fire of determination inside. She doesn't necessarily have a top seed in the Olympic Trials field by time, but you can guarantee that her hard work and fierce determination will make her a force to be reckoned with on February 29th in Atlanta. Go Steph go!
Scott Fauble was the top American at the Boston Marathon and the 2nd ranked marathoner in the US in 2019. His 2:09:09 in Boston makes him the 10th fastest US marathoner of all-time. He trains with team Northern Arizona Elite (NAZ Elite), sponsored by Hoka One One and coached by Ben Rosario.
While a state champion in high school, Scott's rise to the top of US marathoning has not be a smooth or predictable road at least for those watching from the outside. Scott talks about his progression in the sport including how he has always set big goals and high standards for himself and how his mindset makes him particularly well-suited to the 26.2 mile distance.
In this fascinating conversation, Chris and Kara learn about Scott's journey in the sport and then dig deep with Scott on all the major issues within distance running from Alberto Salazar to Mary Cain's experiences at the Oregon Project to sports governance and athlete representation and of course to the great shoe debate.
One surprising revelation from the discussion is that Scott is not currently in the drug testing pool in spite of wanting to be. That news came as a shock to us given Scott's success but is also a perfect example of continued challenges and opportunities in the fight for clean sport.
Thank you to Scott for joining us and for his willingness to discuss the tough topics so freely. We will be rooting hard for him and all of his NAZ Elite teammates in Atlanta on February 29th!
In this episode, Kara and Chris interview Emily Sisson as we continue our series in the build-up to the Olympic Marathon Trials in Atlanta on February 29th. Emily has had success at every level from high school state champion to 2-time NCAA champion and now 2-time US Champion on the roads in the 5K and 10K. Perhaps more impressive, however, was her first marathon last spring in London where she ran 2:23 to clock the fastest debut ever by an American on a record-eligible course.
In this interview, we talk about her start in sport playing soccer and how that led to her rapid rise as a runner. She talks about her progression through high school and college and how she made the decision to turn pro. She gives insight into what she has learned from training partner Molly Huddle through the years and what it was like running so fast and beating Molly in the same marathon in London. Emily is down to earth and straight forward on the "pressure" that comes with her new status as a fast marathoner and shares her training and mental approach for the upcoming Olympic Trials.
As we conclude, Emily gives her perspective on clean sport and the great shoe debate, particularly discussing the challenges and pitfalls of speaking out on these topics as an athlete.
Emily is still new to the marathon but sleep on her chances to make an Olympic team in Atlanta at your own peril. Go Emily!
Note: this interview was recorded before the new shoe regulations were released by World Athletics.
Shadrack Biwott is one of only three athletes in the men's field for the US Olympic Marathon Trials who has stood on a World Major Marathon podium. He finished 3rd at the Boston Marathon in 2018 in the extreme cold, windy, and rainy conditions that also accompanied Des Linden's victory on the same day. That finish along with his 4th place finish at Boston in 2017 and 5th place at NYC in 2016 give you only the surface reasons needed to suggest he could make an Olympic team on February 29th.
In this interview, Kara and Chris dig into so much more including Shadrack's move to the US in high school when he couldn't speak English to the struggles of his early pro days without a sponsor and his first marathon that almost had him swear off the distance.
Now, Shadrack trains with the Hansons-Brooks Distance Project and has achieved stability in the sport but admits he is still very much learning the marathon distance as he seeks to make his first Olympic team. We think you will find this interview relatable, endearing, and refreshing as Shadrack himself says that all he can do is "tell the truth." Thank you Shadrack for doing just that with us and for your commitment to clean sport.
Olympian Molly Huddle has won so many US titles on the track, road, and grass that even she has lost count. As one of the surest bets in US distance running, we *think* she is up to 28 times as a national champion. She is also the first athlete to wear a Clean Sport Collective temporary tattoo in competition when she debuted in the marathon at NYC in 2016.
Kara and Shanna lead this one discussing a broad range topics from her early childhood years in sport to her transition to running in high school with only one season of cross country to her 10K US record earned in a blistering fast but also suspicious race at the Rio Olympics.
Molly talks about how she moved past a season of injuries in and around her collegiate career to achieve such a high level of excellence as a pro while competing clean, as well as her perspective on what the sport needs to do in order to level the playing field, as shared in her recent op-ed in the Providence Journal.
Molly is both a champion in the sport and a champion for clean sport, and we are rooting for her to make another Olympic team this year!
With this interview, we kick off a podcast series interviewing the top contenders for the Olympic Marathon Trials in Atlanta on February 29th. Stay tuned for twice weekly episodes all month long with the next one coming on Wednesday, February 5th.
Note: This interview was conducted prior to the new shoe regulations announced by World Athletics on January 31st.
World Athletics (formerly the IAAF) released their updated regulations regarding footwear today. These regulations establish new rules governing the use of prototypes and impose immediate limits on sole thickness (i.e. stack height) and the use of carbon fiber plates. In summary, it appears that the Nike prototype AlphaFly is now banned, but the Nike 4% and Next% are still legal. The AlphaFly was the Nike prototype worn by Eliud Kipchoge to break the 2-hour barrier in the marathon. In addition, competitors to Nike now have until April 30th to release their versions of the Next% in order for their athletes to wear new shoes at the Olympic Games in Japan. Otherwise, new shoes must comply with the new structural limits and be commercially available to all for a period of 4 months before they can be used in competition. Ross Tucker from the Science of Sport joins Kara and Adam Goucher with Chris McClung moderating to provide our immediate reactions in this special episode. We discuss the practical implications of the new rules as well as where we believe they continue to fall short. Do these new rules resolve the great shoe debate or do they create more new questions than answers?
Evan Dunfee is a top name in the sport of elite race walking, but perhaps more importantly, he is an outspoken advocate for both clean sport and athlete rights.
Evan finished an agonizing 4th at the Rio Olympics in the 50K race walk and then came back to earn the coveted bronze medal at the World Championships in Doha in 2019.
Kara and Chris interview Evan, and they discuss both experiences including the one thing that made that 4th place finish in Rio particularly satisfying (hint: clean athletes), plus how he prepared for the extremely hot and humid conditions in Doha.
We discuss his beginnings in the sport of race walking, which actually started with him as a runner at an early age. Evan gives us a lesson in how race walking - "running with rules" - actually works and how he progressed from a national talent in Canada to an athlete who could compete with the best in the world.
Evan holds nothing back as he discusses doping in race walking, the Russian ban, and what can be done to elevate the athlete's voice through all of it. If you know nothing else about Evan Dunfee, then you will want to listen to hear his story about getting kicked out of a competitive venue for yelling doping accusations at an athlete who would later be banned.
Evan isn't afraid to tell it like it is, and we could certainly use more athletes like him in the fight for clean sport.
We are excited to introduce you to Uli Fluhme. He is a race director and clean sport advocate in the sport of cycling, and his story is a fascinating one.
Uli grew up competing in the world of European cycling where he was on a team that would send athletes to the Olympics. While Uli himself says that "he wasn't good enough for them to waste the drugs on him," he saw firsthand the impact performance enhancing drugs had on the sport and how it affected the lives of his friends.
These experiences shaped him as an athlete and now as an advocate for clean sport. After a detour as a lawyer on Wall Street, he is back in the sport as a race director and now using his platform to take a stand.
Chris and Shanna talk to Uli about the culture in cycling and how it's changed (or not) in the last 3 decades. We discuss his race and the unique drug testing protocol he has implemented which includes not only out-of-competition testing but also lifetime bans for those busted through the process.
In addition, we get his insight on what more can be done by governing bodies to promote clean sport and how we as fans can get involved. Uli is an unsung hero in the fight for clean sport and an amazing example of how we can all have impact if we just stand up for what's right in the world that we can touch.
We continue a new year of Clean Sport podcasts with another amazing guest as 2018 Boston Marathon Champion Desiree Linden joins Kara and Chris on the show.
You know Des as a two-time Olympian in the marathon with 3 podium finishes in World Marathon Majors including two second place finishes at Boston and Chicago, and then of course her epic win in Boston in 2018 in nor'easter conditions. But, do you know how she started in sport? Did you know that her favorite event in high school and college was the 1500 and that she begged her coach not to make her race longer distances?
We get that history plus much more about her career in this open and honest conversation that includes a recap of her heartbreaking near-win in Boston in 2011 and the heroic run that brought redemption in Boston in 2018.
Plus, Des gives us her straightforward perspective on competing against doped athletes, why the Olympics has lost some luster for her, what she thinks about the performance-enhancing shoes, and of course, what she wants to see done in order to clean up the sport for future generations.
One of the things we love about Des is that she isn't afraid to speak her mind, and on this episode she doesn't disappoint. We are excited to see her compete for another Olympic team at the Marathon Trials in Atlanta on February 29th and then go after another Boston title shortly thereafter on April 20th.
We are excited to kick off a new decade of fighting for clean sport with this powerful episode. Some use the word whistleblower, but we prefer to use the word truth-teller to describe our next guest - Steve Magness.
Steve was a precocious talent as a runner in high school and college with a 4:01 personal best in the mile. Along the way, he developed an interest in coaching and that led him down a path to become an assistant coach alongside Alberto Salazar at the Nike Oregon Project (NOP). Little did he know that joining the NOP would change his life forever because of what he saw and experienced there.
Chris and Kara talk with Steve about those experiences including his initial impressions of Salazar and the early warning signs that his methods might be suspicious. We discuss what led Steve to be a guinea pig in Salazar's experiments with L-Carnitine injections, including Steve's long-time relationship with Dr. Brown (who administered the injections) that dated back to his high school years.
We learn about the moment that Steve decided that he had to leave the NOP and what it was like to come forward to USADA and eventually the public with the truth.
From there, Steve shares his reactions to the doping bans handed down to Salazar and Dr. Brown as well as what he would like to see Nike do in order to dramatically change the culture in our sport for the better.
In this interview, Steve discusses stories and perspectives about his journey that we had never before heard. We can't thank him enough for everything he has done to tell the truth, do what's right, and therefore make a huge difference in the fight for clean sport in spite of the risk of great personal sacrifice.
In this episode, Chris and Shanna interview James Wilks, retired UFC Fighter and Producer from the documentary The Game Changers.
James was born and raised in England and began experimenting with martial arts at a young age. He progressed to become a black belt in both Taekwondo and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and would go on to compete on the reality TV show The Ultimate Fighter, which earned him a spot in the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC).
As a UFC fighter, he became a welterweight champion before a knee injury forced him to take a break from fighting. During that break, he began researching and talking to experts and other athletes on nutrition, and as a result, he started experimenting with plant-based eating himself. This journey would lead him to conceptualize and produce the film The Game Changers which shows how plant-based eating can improve performance and recovery.
With James, we discuss his personal journey as an athlete and fighter and how that led him to his role with The Game Changers. James shares his own transition to plant-based eating as well as the science that supports how it can improve strength and endurance. In addition, we discuss the clean sport culture and progression of drug testing within fighting.
For those looking for safe, clean, and legal performance enhancers, then perhaps look no further than the plants that are all around us. Those are marginal gains that we can support!
On November 15th, the North Face Endurance Challenge hosted us for a Clean Sport panel with elite trail athletes Rob Krar and Dylan Bowman, track athlete and prior Clean Sport Collective Podcast guest Alysia Montaño, and co-host Kara Goucher.
With this panel, it is fascinating to hear the differences in testing and clean sport culture across road, trail and track racing.
Alysia discusses her recent medal upgrade experience in Doha. Dylan and Rob provide insight into the trail community and its current rudimentary approach to drug testing. Kara discusses why the Salazar ban was such a landmark decision, and all of the athletes give their perspectives on what should come next for athletes, the governing bodies, brands, events, and the fans.
Thank you to the North Face Endurance Challenge for hosting us. As a brand and event that has signed the Clean Sport pledge, we appreciate your leadership in promoting a better culture for all athletes.
Roger Pielke is a name you need to know. He has a Ph.D in Political Science and is a professor at the University of Colorado in Boulder. At CU, he is the director of the Sports Governance Center within the Department of Athletics at the Center for Science and Technology Policy Research.
That might all sound boring to you, but Roger's curiosity at the intersection of science, policy, sport has led him to be a critical player on topics that matter within sports governance. He has testified against the IAAF in the Caster Semenya case regarding sex testing in sport. He is an expert on sport governance related to anti-doping efforts and is active in the research needed to improve the rules and regulations promoting clean sport.
In this interview, Kara and Chris interview Roger and discuss a range of topics within sports governance from the Caster Semenya case to the Russian doping scandal. He also provides his perspective on why WADA, the IAAF, and the IOC can't effectively govern anti-doping efforts and what needs to be done to fix a broken system.
Roger brings a much-needed objective and evidence-based perspective to these really complicated topics. While his conclusions might surprise you sometimes, his voice is so important to educate us all on what can and should be done to better promote clean sport.
In this episode, Shanna and Kara interview steeplechase World Champion Emma Coburn.
Emma is an athlete that really needs no introduction, but for those that don't know, Emma is a 3-time global championship medalist. She won the bronze medal in 2016 at the Rio Olympics. She won the gold medal in London at the 2017 World Championships, and she followed that with the silver medal at the 2019 World Championships in Doha, Qatar. Emma attended the University of Colorado where she earned three NCAA championships, two in the steeplechase and one in the indoor mile. She also own eight US championships in the steeplechase where she has been the dominant force since 2011.
In this interview with Emma, Shanna and Kara cover a wide range of topics from her beginnings as an athlete in the small mountain town of Crested Butte to what it's like to compete on the world stage against the best of the best. Emma talks about what she learned while running at the University of Colorado, what it's like to be coached by her husband Joe, the positive dynamic within her current training group, her secrets to consistency, and what she does to stay busy outside of running (hint: www.elkrun5k.com).
Emma discusses when she realized that the playing field was tainted by potential drug cheats and how she approaches competing with that knowledge. In addition, she tells a crazy drug testing story from the Rio Olympics and gives you the names of two brands who support both her and clean sport.
Emma is an inspiring athlete, a clean sport advocate, and just an all-around great person. Listen in, be a fan, and buy from the brands that sponsor and support an athlete like her!
We were very honored to sit down with Amelia Boone in New York City just before the marathon in a room full of gold shoes in the basement of Mile High Run Club. Amelia is not only a 4-time World Champion in the sport of obstacle course racing (OCR), but even more impressively, she did it while maintaining a full-time job as a corporate lawyer.
With this episode, Shanna and Chris interview Amelia to talk about her meteoric rise from 1st-timer to OCR World Champion. We discuss her background in sport and the keys to her championships including the grit and determination that drives her.
We dig into why Amelia decided to come forward about her struggles with an eating disorder and what her ongoing recovery looks like day to day. From there, we talk about the sport of OCR and how it's evolved since Amelia did her first race in 2011, including the clean sport culture and testing protocols (or lack thereof). She gives valuable insight into what events and sponsors should be doing to help the cause. Near the end, Amelia shares a lawyer's perspective on who she believes is the real MVP for Nike in the great shoe debate regarding the Nike Vapor Fly.
Amelia has a positive energy that is infectious and we dare you to listen to this one without smiling. Thank you to Amelia for sharing your story.
For additional reading/listening, here is Amelia's initial public blog discussing her recovery from an eating disorder:
http://www.ameliabooneracing.com/blog/uncategorized/therecoveryineeded/ And here is the 2-hour Rich Roll podcast where she covers that topic in much more depth:In 2012, Mary Cain set the US High School record in the 1500m at the World Junior Championships running 4:11. Later that year, she got a call from Alberto Salazar who invited her to come train with the Nike Oregon Project (NOP). She was 16 years old. After joining the NOP, she had initial success that belied her age including a remarkable run in 2014 when she won the 1500m at the US Indoor Championships, finished 2nd to Jenny Simpson at the US Outdoor Championships, and then capped an amazing year winning the 3000m at the World Junior Championships. From there, her experience took a dark and heartbreaking turn that would ultimately cause her to leave the NOP for reasons that only recently have been made public. On November 7th, Mary came forward to share her story of weight shaming and emotional abuse during her time with Salazar and the NOP in this NY Times video op-ed. Kara and Shanna lead this powerful interview with Mary as she gives more details about her time with Alberto Salazar and the NOP. She talks about that initial phone call from Salazar and her subsequent decision to join the Nike Oregon Project. She tells the story about when Salazar first discussed her weight with her right after she won the 3000m at the World Junior Championships. From there, she details how her weight became Salazar's near-constant obsession, leading her to feel like something was wrong with her. Isolated and ashamed, she discusses how workouts and races became increasingly difficult as she struggled to meet the unrealistic expectations put on her and her body. She talks about how no one reached out or stood up for her until she finally made the decision to tell her parents about her struggles. From there, you will hear about the tension between her misdirected love for Alberto and the terrible actions against her, along with what ultimately caused her to come forward and what she hopes happens next. We believe and support Mary Cain and consider her a hero for telling her story. We thank her for shining the spotlight not only on a broken system at Nike, "the global leader of sport", but also on how positions of power in sport can create an unhealthy view on bodyweight and performance.
In this episode, we bring you part two of our two-part interview with US marathon legend Frank Shorter. As a reminder, Frank Shorter is the only American to win two Olympic medals for the marathon distance earning gold in 1972 in Munich and silver in 1976 in Montreal.
In this discussion with Chris and Kara, we pick up where we left off last time and hear additional stories on the early days of USADA and Frank's role in it from the early Balco scandal to the Lance Armstrong case. We also learn the behind-the-scenes story on why Frank stepped away from his active role with USADA in 2003.
From there, we fast forward to today to understand Frank's perspective on several recent topics in the sport of running including the Alberto Salazar suspension, the heartbreaking Mary Cain allegations against Salazar and the Oregon Project from this week, and of course, the great shoe debate of recent weeks.
Frank's perspective is invaluable as someone with a long and unique history in our sport.
For reference, here is the video op-ed from the NY Times with Mary Cain:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/07/opinion/nike-running-mary-cain.html
Having read the episode title, some of you may already be skeptical to listen to this one. If you aren't a CrossFit fan or athlete, then you might wonder how you might relate to Camille's story. Well, we are here to insist that you will. While her chosen activity might be different than yours, the details of her journey as a CrossFit Games champion (and 4-time top 10 finisher) are very much relatable.
If you have ever been bullied, then you can relate to Camille. If you are a woman who has felt that you didn't have a place to compete and perform that was uniquely supportive, then you can relate to Camille. If you later found your community, then you can relate to Camille. If you've ever had to balance getting your degree or perhaps working full-time while also trying to be your best in sport, then you can relate to Camille. If you love to work hard and suffer, then you can relate to Camille. If you've ever been afraid to succeed (or fail), then you can relate to Camille. If you've ever had people question you or your results, then you can relate to Camille. If you fancy yourself a badass, then you are more like Camille than you think.
If any of the above resonates, then give this one a listen as Shanna and Chris lead the interview to learn more about Camille's journey, while also getting her perspective on clean sport in CrossFit and beyond.
In this episode, we switch gears from talking about the unfair advantage created by the use of performance enhancing drugs to potential unfair advantage created by the use of performance enhancing footwear.
Host Chris McClung leads a panel discussion with Kara Goucher, Alex Hutchinson, and Ryan Hall to discuss the implications of shoe technology in light of recent performances by Eliud Kipchoge (who broke 2 hours in the marathon) and Brigid Kosgei (who now owns the world record in the marathon for women). Kara Goucher (@karagoucher), of course, is co-host of the show and is an elite-level US distance runner who competed in the Olympics twice for the US at the 10,000 meter and marathon distances. She owns a silver medal from the World Championships in the 10,000 meters and has finished 3rd place at both the NYC and Boston Marathons. Alex Hutchinson (@sweatscience) earned his PhD in Physics from the University of Cambridge, and has been writing his Sweat Science column for over 10 years exploring the science behind running and performance. Previously with Runner's World and now with Outside magazine, he continues his pursuit of the truth on the science of sport. In Alex's recent book - Mind, Body, and the Curiously Elastic Limits of Human Performance - he also covered Eliud Kipchoge's first attempt to break the 2 hour barrier in the marathon. Ryan Hall (@ryanhall3) is a two-time Olympian and the fastest ever US marathoner with a PR of 2:04:58 and also the current US half marathon record holder. He also now the coach of his wife Sara Hall who just ran a marathon PR of 2:22 at Berlin and who will be competing to earn a spot on the Olympic Marathon team in Atlanta next February. As an Asics athlete, Sara is potentially disadvantaged by not having access to the same shoe technology that facilitated these recent breakthrough performances. In this discussion, we get reactions from all of the panelists on the performances of Kipchoge and Kosgei and the shoes that led to them, plus talk about what should be done (or not) to regulate this technology in order to level the playing field. This is a complicated topic that requires leadership and transparency from the IAAF, and we appreciate the level-headed and balanced discussion from Kara, Alex, and Ryan.In a move that might surprise you, we bring on Tyler Hamilton for episode #16. Tyler Hamilton is a former cyclist who received two doping bans while competing and then would eventually be compelled to testify against Lance Armstrong in the federal case against him.
Tyler started his sporting career as a ski racer until a freak back injury ended his skiing career. After the injury, he turned to cycling and quickly began a rapid and unexpected rise to become a professional cyclist. Racing in Europe for the first time, he quickly became indoctrinated in the doping culture, taking a red testosterone pill after a race in 1997 which led to much bigger and darker decisions down the road.
Tyler would go on to be one of Lance's support riders in 3 of his Tour de France wins, then lead his own Tour teams and win an Olympic gold medal, all while continuously upping the stakes with his use of performance enhancing drugs (PEDs) and techniques.
Shanna and Kara interview Tyler to talk about his story from what he was thinking when he first crossed the line with PEDs to what it was like to come clean and break the omertá, cycling's unwritten code of silence.
In this interview, you will hear the very human story of a good person who made many bad choices and who is now trying to make amends by educating the next generation with the truth. Telling the truth has not always been easy or convenient for Tyler, but we are very thankful that he shared his story with us.
You can read more about Tyler's story in his book - The Secret Race: Inside the Hidden World of the Tour de France: Doping, Cover-ups, and Winning at All Costs.
In this episode, we bring you part one of a two-part interview with US marathon legend Frank Shorter. Frank Shorter is the only American to win two Olympic medals for the marathon distance earning gold in 1972 in Munich and silver in 1976 in Montreal. Sadly, in 1976 he was robbed of a second gold medal moment when he was beaten by East German runner Waldemar Cierpinski who would later be directly linked to a state-sponsored doping program. Frank's marathon successes sparked the marathon movement here in the US as thousands of everyday runners flocked to cover the 26.2 mile distance. Frank would go on to earn a law degree at the University of Florida and become an integral part of the professionalization of track and field including negotiation of some of the very first sponsorship deals. Then in the late 1990's, Frank helped develop the vision for and lead the formation of the US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) where he served as Chairman from 2000-2003. In this interview, Kara and Chris chat with Frank about his beginnings as a marathoner and how training then differed dramatically from training now. In addition, Frank shares stories of his Olympic experiences including what it was like to get beat in 1976 by a suspiciously unknown runner who just seemed to effortlessly glide away. Finally, don't miss the conclusion of the podcast where Frank shares an unbelievable story about the formation of USADA and the near-perfect combination of events and personalities (including President Bill Clinton) that made it happen. Stay tuned for part two of the interview that will be released in several weeks.
Last Monday September 30th, USADA announced a 4-year ban for Albert Salazar and Dr. Jeffrey Brown for doping violations associated with their work within the Nike Oregon Project. In this interview with Chris McClung, Kara and Adam Goucher tell the story of their 6-year journey to support USADA's case. Kara is a co-host for the Clean Sport Collective podcast, and Adam shared his perspective on the fight for clean sport in episode #9. Both Olympians, they know what it is like to compete at the highest levels in track and field while also being robbed of achievement by drug cheats. In 2011, everything changed for them when they realized their own coach and training group were participating in suspicious activity. Neither could have suspected the extreme challenges that would come from simply telling the truth. In this discussion with Kara and Adam, we talk about all of those challenges and the implications of this decision on the fight for clean sport, including: - Their initial reactions to the Salazar and Brown decisions - Their perspectives on the reactions of others including Nike - When they first saw suspicious activity within the Nike Oregon Project and why they decided to come forward - What life is like as a whistleblower and what it was like to testify in this case, including the stress and impact on their own family - Their reactions to those who would question Kara's own intentions or integrity or accuse her of cheating herself - What she would like to see happen with the Nike Oregon Project and its athletes - What consumers can do to support the fight for clean sport in the wake of these decisions - What this means for their future and the future of clean sport This is a powerful interview about a very difficult journey for Adam and Kara. As an organization that is passionate about clean sport, we are proud to have them on our team and especially proud that their commitment to telling the truth led to this victory for clean sport. Details of each decision from USADA: https://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/Salazar-AAA-Decision-1.pdf https://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/Jeffrey-Brown-FINAL-AA-Award.pdf Other recent interviews with Kara on these decisions: NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/06/sports/salazar-doping-nike-oregon-project.html BBC: https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/49951671 Women's Running: https://www.womensrunning.com/2019/10/news/goucher-on-alberto-salazar-doping-violations_103148
With this week's episode, we switch gears from interviewing athletes to interviewing a journalist. Kara, Chris and Shanna are joined by Bonnie Ford to discuss doping and the pursuit of clean sport.
Bonnie is a senior writer with ESPN who covers cycling, Olympics sports, tennis, soccer, and a host of other sports. She has covered more than 14 Tours de France including the Lance Armstrong and Chris Froome doping cases. In addition, she has interviewed anti-doping whistleblowers, including Floyd Landis, Yuliya and Vitaly Stepanova, and Kara herself.
With Bonnie, we cover a range of topics including her first exposure to doping in sport, what it was like to cover cycling during the Armstrong era, what she believes athletes can do to stand up on this topic, and how fans can remain hopeful in the fight against doping.
Bonnie's perspective on this topic is objective, deep, and insightful. We need more journalists like her who are willing to ask the hard questions while covering this topic thoroughly and with regularity.
With this week's episode, we follow one badass female track field athlete with another. Chris and Kara interview mom and 800m specialist Alysia Montaño (@alysiamontano) in a wide-ranging and emotional interview.
Alysia is a 6-time US Champion in the 800 and also owns 3 Bronze medals from 3 different World Championships. Unfortunately, 2 of those medals came via "medal upgrade" after drug cheat Mariya Savinova was convicted of doping violations. Alysia is finally due to receive those medals in a medal ceremony coming up next week at the 2019 World Championships in Doha.
In the interview, Alysia discusses the numerous challenges she has faced in track and field in spite of her success, including a contract pay reduction after only 1 year as a pro, competing against and being "robbed" by drug cheats, having her pay suspended during and after pregnancy, and the 6 and 9-year wait to finally receive the medals she earned in 2011 and 2013.
Alysia talks about how the IAAF and the other powers-that-be in this sport have let her down and the trauma that it has caused her financially and emotionally. She also provides her perspective on what needs to change to protect clean athletes and female athletes who decide to start a family (#dreammaternity).
Alysia is real, honest, and brave in sharing her truth. Her story provides powerful perspective on why we need to elevate her voice for the sake of protecting current and future athletes from the challenges she has faced.
Allyson Felix (@allysonfelix) should need no introduction. She is the most decorated track athlete of all-time, male or female, with 26 global championship medals. As a sprinter who focuses on the 200m, 400m, and relay events, she has won 18 gold medals including gold medals at 3 different Olympic Games (2008, 2012, 2016). She has won the Jesse Owens Award given to the top USATF athlete each year a record 5 times. Off the track, Allyson is active in advocating for women and youth sports and serves on the Right to Play Board of Directors.
In this episode, we begin with a quick introduction on her background in sport and then dive into two topics on which Allyson's voice is so important: maternity rights and clean sport. She discusses how being a mom has motivated her to speak out on topics such as these. She provides her thoughts on what more can be done to protect female athletes during and after their pregnancies. In addition, we talk about the current culture within sprinting regarding the use of performance-enhancing drugs and what more can be done to create a level playing field. She also gives her perspective on the Christian Coleman case and why missing a drug test is such a big deal, including a story about her one and only missed test while taking an exam at USC. At the end, we discuss Allyson's new sponsorship deal with Athleta and what she is doing to try to make another Olympic team in Toyko 2020. We want to thank Allyson for her strong and clear perspectives on these two very important topics and for her willingness to use her voice. We need more athletes like Allyson who are willing to speak out. Check out this link for Allyson's op-ed in the NY times on maternity rights and her contract dispute with Nike, her former sponsor: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/22/opinion/allyson-felix-pregnancy-nike.htmlIn this episode, we take a break from interviews to engage in a roundtable discussion on current anti-doping news, including discussion of three topics:
a. The recent sanction of triathlete Lauren Goss for using a contaminated CBD cream:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2Bv7HWBxwO/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
b. The public stance of swimmer Mack Horton who refused to stand on the podium with an alleged doper:
https://people.com/sports/mack-horton-sun-yang-rivalry/
c. The recent case of top US 100m sprinter Christian Coleman in which he missed 3 drug tests in 12 months but has been allowed to continue competing:
https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019/09/02/christian-coleman-cleared-in-drug-testing-case/
It is our hope that this discussion will not only educate you on anti-doping news but also help shape your perspective as well. Whether you agree or disagree, we would love for you to engage in the discussion with us @cleansportco on instagram or twitter.
In this episode Kara Goucher and Chris McClung interview Adam Goucher. Adam (aka Mr. Kara Goucher) is a 4-time NCAA champion in cross country and track and field plus an Olympian in the 5K, and he has the highest US male finish in the World Cross Country Championships (6th) since 1986. Adam brings a unique and crystal-clear perspective on clean sport as an athlete that competed in the time period before a drug test for EPO was introduced. Adam tells a story about kicking a suspected dirty athlete off the track at the University of Colorado and talks about his role in supporting Kara in her move to leave Nike. It is particularly powerful to hear Adam and Kara interact during this interview as they reflect on difficult times shared together in the sport. Adam also recently told the story of the heartbreaking treatment of Kara by Nike during her pregnancy and after the birth of their son Colt. Though this blog came out after the interview with Adam was recorded, it shows further perspective on Adam's role in supporting Kara as well as trying to fight for what is right for all athletes and especially female athletes in sport. Here is a link to the blog: https://retreat.karagoucher.com/its-time-for-me-to-use-my-voice/ Adam now runs the business Run the Edge with his friend Tim Catalano. Learn more about Run the Edge and the Run the Year challenge at www.runtheedge.com. In addition, here is the link to the ProPublica story on doping allegations at the Nike Oregon Project: https://www.propublica.org/article/former-team-members-accuse-coach-alberto-salazar-of-breaking-drug-rules
In this episode, we interview Annie Thorisdottir of Iceland (@anniethorisdottir) about what drives her to be the best CrossFit athlete in the world. Annie has finished on the podium 5 times in the last decade at the CrossFit Games with 2 first-place, 2 second-place, and 1 third place finish.
This year she finished a disappointing 12th after a change in format to the Games. We talk to her about how she will bounce back from that, plus dig into her training regiment and her diet before discussing her perspective on drug testing and clean sport culture within CrossFit.
Annie has a strong perspective on doping in sport, asking the question: "How could you stand on a podium knowing that you cheated?" She also calls for additional drug testing in order to maintain the integrity of the sport she loves.
Annie's energy and passion is infectious, and if you weren't a fan of her before, then you will be now!
In this episode, Kara Goucher and Chris McClung interview Mirinda Carfrae (@mirindacarfrae) who is one of the best triathletes in the world. Mirinda (who goes by Rinny for short) has finished on the podium at the Ironman World Championships in Kona seven times with three victories, three second-place finishes, and one third-place finish. She also holds the run-course record in Kona with a time of 2 hours and 50 minutes for the marathon to cap off the 140.6 mile race.
With Rinny, we talk about her beginnings in sport as a basketball player, her transition to triathlon, and how she became one of the best in the world at her craft. We also cover what her training looks like, how she is so good at running off the bike, what it has been like coming back to competing after having her first child, and of course, her perspective on clean sport in her sport.
Rinny's perspective on clean sport is clear and straight forward, and she would like to see even more rigor to fight doping in the sport of triathlon.
In this episode, we switch the discussion to a new sport and interview Jonathan Coyles, the VP of Drug, Health & Safety Programs at Major League Baseball (MLB).
In the early 2000s, the BALCO Scandal implicated a host of MLB athletes which led to a congressional investigation into performance-enhancing drug (PED) use in baseball by Senator George Mitchell.
Senator Mitchell's investigation produced a 409-page report informally known as the Mitchell Report. The Mitchell Report detailed illegal use of steroids and other performance enhancing drugs by players in Major League Baseball. It also put forward a list of recommendations regarding the handling of past drug use and future prevention practices.
From this report, MLB created Jonathan Coyles role, and he now oversees the league's PED prevention program in coordination with an outside party and the players union. In this interview, we talk about the actions MLB has taken to prevent PED use including its drug-testing and investigative practices and its support for the Partnership for Clean Competition (PCC).
You will be surprised and encouraged to hear about the actions Major League Baseball has taken to promote clean sport.
With episode #5 of the Clean Sport Collective podcast, Kara Goucher and Chris McClung interview ultra marathoner Ian Sharman (@sharmanian). Ian has won over 50 events including the Leadville 100-Miler 4 times. He's also finished top 10 at the Western States 100 nine times and owns the fastest time to ever complete the Grand Slam of Ultras, a series of 4, 100-milers in just 10 weeks. Ian is going for his tenth top 10 at Western States this weekend (starting June 29).
With Ian, we talk about his background, how he got into trail ultras, tips for those who might be considering going long (including Kara), and of course, his perspective on clean sport in the ultra world. Our discussion includes his thoughts on how to build a culture of clean sport as well as what he thinks about marijuana as a performance enhancer. Ian's perspective on this topic is refreshingly black and white.
In this 4th episode of the Clean Sport Collective podcast, we interview Jenny Simpson (@trackjenny) to get her perspective on anti-doping efforts in sport. Jenny is one of the greatest US 1-mile and 1500m runners of all time. She owns 3 World Championship medals (1 gold and 2 silvers) and an Olympic medal (bronze in 2016). She's also a 3-time NCAA champion, 11-time US champion, and 3-time Olympian.
In this interview, we learn more about Jenny's background in sport and how she became one of the best in the world in her event. We get insight on what it's like to line up against suspicious athletes as well as what it's like to be randomly drug tested, including how things went in a surprise test on the morning of our interview.
Jenny is an athlete that we can all believe in, and we think you will enjoy this discussion with her.
With episode #3, Chris McClung and Shanna Burnette interview one of the founding members and current board members of the Clean Sport Collective - Kevin Rutherford, CEO of Nuun Hydration.
We start with a background on Kevin and how he came to be CEO of Nuun after stints at Mrs. Meyer's Clean Day, Kashi, MillerCoors, and S.C. Johnson. Then, we cover his progress as CEO in 6 years with Nuun including their corporate commitment to selling clean/natural products as well as promoting clean sport. Kevin talks about his role in the foundation of the Clean Sport Collective, the importance of the brand pledge, and how corporate sponsors can play a more active role in the fight for clean sport.
Kevin also challenges other brands/sponsors to take the clean sport pledge at cleansport.org.
In episode #2 of the Clean Sport Collective podcast, we introduce you to the 3 co-hosts of the show, Kara Goucher, Shanna Burnette, and Chris McClung, and give you more background on the Clean Sport Collective. We talk about the reasons and objectives behind the organization and then discuss insights into Kara and Shanna's experience at the recent Partnership for Clean Competition (PCC) conference in London.
About the co-hosts:
- Kara Goucher is an elite-level US distance runner who has competed in the Olympics for the US at the 10,000 meter and marathon distances. She owns a silver medal from the World Championships in the 10,000 meters and has finished 3rd place at both the NYC and Boston Marathons. You can read more about her experiences with doping in sport here.
- Shanna Burnette is Kara's agent and a leader in PR and marketing for brands in the running industry.She is the co-founder of ModCraft, a marketing agency she started with her husband in 2013. Shanna is the original founder of the Clean Sport Collective.
- Chris McClung is a co-owner of Rogue Running, a running coaching business based in Austin, TX. He is also host of the Running Rogue podcast which educates runners on coaching topics and aspires to build fans of the sport. Chris is a huge fan of all sports and is passionate about raising awareness on the topic of clean sport.
We are excited to introduce the Clean Sport Collective podcast with this first episode. The Clean Sport Collective is a community of powerful voices comprised of athletes, brands, events, clubs, fans and the public to support the pursuit of clean sport and athletics.
With this podcast, we will celebrate clean athletes, educate you on issues in the world of clean sport, and bring hope that we can all believe in the power of fair play across all sports.
For our first episode, we interview Travis Tygart, the CEO of the US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA). USADA is the national anti-doping organization (NADO) in the United States for Olympic and Paralympic sport. The organization is charged with managing the anti-doping program, including in-competition and out-of competition testing, results management processes, drug reference resources, and athlete education for all United States Olympic Committee (USOC) recognized sport national governing bodies, their athletes, and events.
We talk about the current state of US anti-doping efforts in this conversation with Travis.
About the co-hosts:
- Kara Goucher is an elite-level US distance runner who has competed in the Olympics for the US at the 10,000 meter and marathon distances. She owns a silver medal from the World Championships in the 10,000 meters and has finished 3rd place at both the NYC and Boston Marathons. You can read more about her experiences with doping in sport here.
- Shanna Burnette is Kara's agent and a leader in PR and marketing for brands in the running industry. She is the co-founder of ModCraft, a marketing agency she started with her husband in 2013. Shanna is the original founder of the Clean Sport Collective.
- Chris McClung is a co-owner of Rogue Running, a running coaching business based in Austin, TX. He is also host of the Running Rogue podcast which educates runners on coaching topics and aspires to build fans of the sport. Chris is a huge fan of all sports and is passionate about raising awareness on the topic of clean sport.
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