Behavioral Grooves Podcast

Latest Episodes:

Three Easy Ways to Nurture A Child’s Brain Development | Dana Suskind MD May 25, 2022

Show notes

World-class pediatric surgeon, social scientist, and best-selling author Dr Dana Suskind MD talks about the Three T's (tune in, talk more and take turns) that parents can do to nurture their children’s brain development and the key ways that society needs to change to invest in the next generation.

Dana is the founder and co-director of the TMW Center for Early Learning & Public Health, and Professor of Surgery and Pediatrics at the University of Chicago. She is also the director of the Pediatric Cochlear Implant Program, and is recognized as a national thought leader in early language development. Her research is dedicated to optimizing foundational brain development and preventing early cognitive disparities and their lifelong impact. Honestly, when she talks about raising kids…we need to listen.

Most recently, Dana has released a fantastic new book detailing the powerful blueprint that society should be taking to meet the developmental needs of all children. We talk more with Dana about why she wrote Parent Nation: Unlocking Every Child's Potential, Fulfilling Society's Promise and how the status quo for parenting in America is not serving parents and children well.

If you enjoy Dana’s episode on Behavioral Grooves Podcast, you can support our work through our Patreon page. You can also write a short podcast review on your podcast player; doing so helps other listeners find our show.

Topics

(4:58) Welcome and speed round questions.

(9:25) How has American individualism influenced the way we parent our children?

(13:05) How significant is the lack of parental leave in the US?

(17:37) Internalizing parental guilt.

(19:28) Reframing your self talk around raising your kids.

(21:17) The influence of the pandemic on parenting.

(25:19) What has been the impact of the pandemic on children?

(27:28) Why language is so important to early development.

(30:20) The 3 Ts of foundational brain development.

(31:56) The personal trauma that influenced Dana’s writing.

(34:19) What positive support systems are there to help parents?

(39:31) Dana’s ambition to write behavioral economics music!

(41:26) Grooving Session discussing Parent Nation.

Links

“Parent Nation: Unlocking Every Child's Potential, Fulfilling Society's Promise” by Dana Suskind MD: https://amzn.to/3wD8YIQ

John List, Episode 296: Fail to Scale: Why Good Research Doesn’t Always Make Great Policy: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/fail-to-scale-john-a-list/

Linda Babcock, Episode 293: Women Do Too Much Non-Promotable Work: How To Say No More with Linda Babcock: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/women-do-too-much/

Meryl Streep: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meryl_Streep

John Amos Comenius: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Amos_Comenius

Caitlyn Collins, Washington University: https://sociology.wustl.edu/people/caitlyn-collins

TMW Center for Early Learning + Public Health at the University of Chicago: https://tmwcenter.uchicago.edu/

“Thirty Million Words: Building a Child's Brain” by Dana Suskind MD: https://amzn.to/3wJ1MLl

Dolly Chugh, Episode 230: How Good People Fight Bias with Dolly Chugh: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cristina-bicchieri-social-norms-are-bundles-of-expectations/

David Yokum, Episode 282: Why Applying Behavioral Science to Public Policy Delivers Better Policy: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/behavioral-science-in-public-policy/

Cristina Bicchieri, Episode 102: Social Norms are Bundles of Expectations: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cristina-bicchieri-social-norms-are-bundles-of-expectations/

Support Behavioral Grooves Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

Musical Links

Johnny Cash “I Walk The Line”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5126CibNsk

Fail to Scale: Why Good Research Doesn’t Always Make Great Policy | John A. List May 23, 2022

Show notes

Lots of us have good ideas, some even back their ideas up with successful research. So why do these good ideas fail to scale into great, big ideas? John A. List shares the personal example of his highly successful kindergarten reform in South Side Chicago which then didn’t scale across the nation. His intrigue into this case led him to pen a phenomenal new book about scalability, “The Voltage Effect”.

John A. List, is a Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago as well as recently becoming the first ever Chief Economist at Walmart. Our conversation with John touches on the ambition he has to change the world for the better in this new role at Walmart. But the primary drive for our chat was to discuss his great new book “The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale”. Listen in to learn about the concept of scalability and why it is so hard to go from, “the petri dish’ (as he puts it) to successful broad scale programs.

As is often the case, we round off our episode with a desert island music selection from our guest. And John’s very thoughtful consideration of the question yields a top notch selection of musical artists. Don’t miss this part of the discussion!

Regular listeners to Behavioral Grooves might consider donating to our work through our Patreon page. Or you can also support us by writing a podcast review on your podcast player; doing so helps scale our audience!

Topics

(6:06) Welcome and speed round questions.

(11:03) Why John named his book The Voltage Effect.

(13:41) John’s involvement in the Chicago Heights Early Childhood (CHECC) school project.

(23:05) What biases influence people?

(26:29) How Nancy Reagan’s good intentions are an example of scaling failure.

(30:52) Scaling behavioral science.

(39:17) How is John going to change the world as Chief Economist at Walmart?

(43:33) How can insights from charity be applied to other sectors?

(54:55) John’s desert island music selection.

(1:04:11) A “High Voltage” Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim.

Links

John A. List’s book, “The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale”: https://amzn.to/3a0GOjh

“Just Say No” campaign: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Say_No

Anna Karenina: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Karenina

“Stakes Matter in Ultimatum Games” (2011) by Steffen Andersen, Seda Ertaç, Uri Gneezy, Moshe Hoffman and John List: https://econpapers.repec.org/paper/hhscbsnow/2011_5f001.htm

George Lowenstein, Episode 67 “George Loewenstein: On a Functional Theory of Boredom”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/george-loewenstein-on-a-functional-theory-of-boredom/

“Parent Nation: Unlocking Every Child's Potential, Fulfilling Society's Promise” by Dana Suskind: https://amzn.to/3wD8YIQ

Sam Tatam, Episode 295 “For Revolutionary Solutions, Look To Evolutionary Ideas”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/evolutionary-ideas-sam-tatam/

Scott Jeffrey, Episode 3: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/bg-3-scott-jeffrey-phd-monmouth-university/

Thomas Steenburgh, Episode 51: “How to Sell New Products”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/thomas-steenburgh-how-to-sell-new-products/

To leave Apple podcast review: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behavioral-grooves-podcast/id1303870112

To support Behavioral Grooves via Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

Musical Links

The Beatles “Don’t Let Me Down”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCtzkaL2t_Y

Freddie Mercury/Queen “These are the Days of Our Lives”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB4K0scMysc

Johnny Cash “Ring Of Fire”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCMz70Fm5pA

Marty Robbins “El Paso”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig2GF1sZSEA

The Red Hot Chili Peppers “Under The Bridge”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwlogyj7nFE

AC/DC “High Voltage”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnjh-zp6pP4

Gordon Lightfoot “If You Could Read My Mind”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5tr_L31StI

Kris Kristofferson “For the Good Times”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX094Nn4L_Y

Waylon Jennings “I’ve Always Been Crazy”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI2MhAGtZgE

Fleetwood Mac “Dreams”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3ywicffOj4

Stevie Nicks “Stand Back”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwS9BIqbffU

White Stripes “We’re Going to Be Friends”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKfD8d3XJok

For Revolutionary Solutions, Look To Evolutionary Ideas | Sam Tatam May 16, 2022

Show notes

Innovation doesn’t always require inventing new solutions to problems; chances are that evolution has already solved the issue with a unique design. This simple notion of looking to the natural world for design inspiration is called biomimicry. Guest, Sam Tatam uses biomimicry in his creative application of behavioral science.

Friend of the show, Sam Tatam is the author of a fantastic new book called Evolutionary Ideas: Unlocking ancient innovation to solve tomorrow’s challenges. Sam is the Global Principal and Head of Behavioural Science at Ogilvy Growth & Innovation. From New York to Nairobi, Sam has led behavior change projects across virtually every category and continent. Today, he leads a global team of talented psychologists and behavioral economists to develop interventions and shape the communications of some of the world’s most influential brands and organizations.

Listen in to our conversation with Sam to learn about biomimicry, The Theory of Inventive Problem Solving (TRIZ) and the Goal Gradient theory. But our conversation isn't all "sciency", we also have a light hearted chat about the musical artist Sam went to Italy with, and about the differences in pubs between London and Sydney.

If you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, please consider donating to our work through Patreon. We also absolutely love reading your reviews on the podcast, which help others find our content.

Topics

(4:59) Welcome and speed round questions.

(13:23) What is biomimicry?

(18:20) TRIZ (Theory of Inventive Problem Solving) and evolutionary thinking.

(25:32) How language can be a liberator for innovation.

(29:28) Categorizing biases into patterns.

(34:58) What is the Goal Gradient Theory and why isn’t it applied more often?

(39:14) Five psychological contradictions.

(47:26) What music would Sam take to a desert island?

(51:03) Kurt and Tim discussing Sam’s Evolutionary Ideas.

Links

Sam Tatam's Book: "Evolutionary Ideas: Unlocking ancient innovation to solve tomorrow’s challenges": https://amzn.to/3I6ANwX

Episode 44, Sam Tatam: Smelling the Brand: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/sam-tatam-smelling-the-brand/

Episode 107: Rory Sutherland: The Opposite of a Good Idea is a Good Idea: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/rory-sutherland-the-opposite-of-a-good-idea-is-a-good-idea/

Biomimicry: https://biomimicry.org/what-is-biomimicry/

TRIZ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIZ

Shinkansen, Japanese speed train: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen

Generich Altshuller: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genrich_Altshuller

Episode 215, Leidy Klotz: Secrets of Subtraction: Donut Holes, Lego and Bruce Springsteen: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/subtraction-with-leidy-klotz/

Episode 289: Why Not All Nudges Work ”In The Wild” | Nina Mazar PhD & Dilip Soman PhD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-not-all-nudges-work-in-the-wild-nina-mazar-dilip-soman/

Baader–Meinhof phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion

Episode 202, How Chaning Jang Works Around Not Being WEIRD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-chaning-jang-works-around-not-being-weird/

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

Musical Links

David Gray “Sail Away”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oyBnvibWEY

Powderfinger “My Happiness”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM_eb0vVo0k

Why Mindset Matters Most: The Secrets of Achievement | Paul Szyarto May 11, 2022

Show notes

A goal is a stepping stone on the way to a higher achievement, not an end point. By reframing our expectations, we can transform our mindset into an incredibly powerful psychological tool.

Our guest on this episode is Paul Szyarto who has overcome some heartbreaking personal adversity to become an incredibly successful entrepreneur.

Paul speaks with us in detail about the blind spots entrepreneurs experience and why many organizations fail because they don’t hire the right people with the right talent. And he reminds us that the most challenging thing to do in times of chaos is to focus on something meaningful, something beyond the current chaos of that current challenge.

Topics

(2:50) Welcome and speed round questions.

(5:11) Goals are not end points, they are stepping stones to a higher achievement.

(8:47) The psychology of human capital.

(12:16) Why most businesses fail.

(13:31) Paul’s secret tips for entrepreneurs.

(16:23) What is the Never Broken mindset?

(19:51) The barriers to feeling grateful.

(21:14) Does Paul’s playlist reflect his Never Broken mindset?

(22:40) Grooving session with Kurt and Tim discussing mindsets.

Links

Never Broken Mindset: https://www.neverbrokenmindset.com/

Episode 277, Daniel Pink, No Regrets? Really? Why Regrets Actually Bring Us Hope: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/why-regrets-bring-us-hope/

Episode 276, Ayelet Fishbach, How To Stay Motivated So You Exceed Your Goals: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/motivation-to-exceed-your-goals/

Women Do Too Much Non-Promotable Work: How To Say No More with Linda Babcock May 09, 2022

Show notes

Women are more likely to volunteer for a non-promotable task at work, than men. But why do women volunteer themselves more? What repercussions does this have on women and on the organization? And how can workplaces fix this inequity?

Non promotable tasks (NPTs) are the pieces of work that are good for the organization, but not so good for the individual. It’s the request from your boss to organize the holiday party, or the task of ordering sandwiches for the team lunch, or the mission of being on the review committee. And the problem, says Linda and her co-authors, is that women are doing the vast majority of these non-promotable tasks for no reason other than people expect them to.

Linda Babcock is a longtime friend of the show, having first appeared on Behavioral Grooves Podcast back in April 2019 to talk about promoting the careers of women in the workplace. Since then, Linda has co-authored a fantastic new book advocating further for women in the workplace; “The No Club: Putting a Stop to Women's Dead-End Work”. Having formed “The No Club” with a group of other women, in an effort to regain balance in their workload, Linda and her fellow group members have written about their personal experience of learning to say NO to NPTs.

Make no mistake, Linda’s book is not a guide for women, it is a guide for anyone who works with or knows women! Weaving practical tips into ever chapter of the book, Linda and her co-authors outline clear steps in how to avoid and fix the problem of workload inequity. And the benefits aren’t limited to women either - organizations can improve their productivity and profitability as a result of addressing these problems.

In this episode with Linda we relish the opportunity to discuss with her the practical ways women, men and organizations can rebalance the workload of NPTs. If you are a regular listener to the show, please consider support our work through our Patreon page. If donating isn’t an option for you, don’t worry, you can’t write us a podcast review on your podcast player which will help other listeners find our show.

Topics

(4:40) What are non promotable tasks (NPTs)?

(7:47) Why do women do more NPTs?

(12:50) Is there racial inequity with NPTs as well?

(14:11) Tips for how women can say no to NPTs.

(18:31) How can organizations fix the problem of NPTs?

(21:27) How men can change the NPT culture at work.

(25:55) Linda’s personal story of forming The No Club.

(27:45) Linda’s desert island music choices.

(31:21) Grooving session with Kurt and Tim on how to improve the culture of NPTs at your work..

Links

“The No Club: Putting a Stop to Women's Dead-End Work”: https://amzn.to/3KPuUFM

Episode 62, Linda Babcock: Helping Women Build Better Careers at Carnegie Mellon: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/linda-babcock-helping-women-build-better-careers-at-carnegie-mellon/

Episode 67, George Loewenstein: On a Functional Theory of Boredom: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/george-loewenstein-on-a-functional-theory-of-boredom/

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

Leading Human Workbook and Playbook: https://www.behavioralgrooves-store.com/products/copy-of-the-leading-human-playbook-workbook-package

Musical Links

The Rolling Stones “You Can’t Always Get What You Want”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3XzO_cOOVU

Bruno Mars “24K Magic”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqyT8IEBkvY&ab_channel=BrunoMars

The Mountain Goats “Golden Boy Peanuts”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIVNv9XZgG8&ab_channel=elijahlupe

How The Invisible Influence of Culture Shapes Our Behavior | Michele Gelfand May 02, 2022

Show notes

The culture we live in has an invisible influence over our individual and collective behaviors. The tendency towards openness or order in a society is expressed by Michele Gelfand, as the looseness or tightness of a culture. How loose or tight a country is can be correlated to the amount of threat the nation has faced in the past, and in turn, can indicate how its people will respond to a new threat, such as a global pandemic.

Michele Gelfand is Professor of Organizational Behavior at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and Professor of Psychology by Courtesy at Stanford University. She wrote her book “Rule Makers, Rule Breakers: Tight and Loose Cultures and the Secret Signals That Direct Our Lives” in the era before COVID. Despite that she astutely addressed how tight and loose nations would respond to the threat of a global pandemic. We were honored to have the time to chat more with Michele about this topic and many others in this episode.

Topics

(5:49) Welcome and speed round questions.

(6:27) How culture influences our behavior.

(10:26) How the threat to a nation influences how tight and loose cultures are.

(13:21) What Bert and Ernie can teach us about our tight and loose personalities.

(16:27) What factors influence our default tendency to be tight or loose people?

(20:21) The global threat of the pandemic and how loose and tight cultures responded.

(28:48) What Ukraine has taught us about national identity.

(30:47) How can societies maximize both order and openness?

(35:02) Can organizations instigate flexible tightness?

(39:42) Do we have blind spots on how open we are?

(43:26) How values and attitudes influence your behaviors in different cultures.

(47:41) What nudge worked to encourage mask wearing among Republicans and Democrats?

(51:50) The music that influences Michele’s work.

Links

Michele Gelfand: www.michelegelfand.com

“Rule Makers, Rule Breakers: Tight and Loose Cultures and the Secret Signals That Direct Our Lives” book by Michele Gelfand: https://amzn.to/37O7OSC

Mindset Quiz: How tight or loose are you? www.michelegelfand.com/tl-quiz

Episode 266, Sandra Sucher, Trust: The Four Key Steps to Genuinely Build It: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/four-key-steps-to-build-trust/

Episode 102, Cristina Bicchieri, Social Norms are Bundles of Expectations: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cristina-bicchieri-social-norms-are-bundles-of-expectations/

Musical Links

Oscar Peterson “C Jam Blues”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTJhHn-TuDY

Les McCann “A Bag of Gold”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50bGvY3Roj0

Dave Brubeck “Take Five”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmDDOFXSgAs

Bach “Brandenburg Concertos”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCPM8DEsvmc

The Psychological Benefits of Using a Process to Achieve an Outcome | Joseph Keebler PhD & Peter Krask Apr 27, 2022

Show notes

Processes decrease our cognitive load and increase our productivity. On Behavioral Grooves we have talked with out guests a lot about habits and routines, but not so much about the processes behind them. In this bitesize episode we discuss the psychological benefits of using processes and how you can leverage them in your life.

To illustrate the use of processes to achieve different outcomes, we are joined by both a practitioner and a researcher on this episode. Joseph R. Keebler is a Researcher and a Professor of Human Factors and Behavioral Neurobiology at Embry Riddle Aeronautical University in Florida. He has done some really amazing work on the use of processes and checklists for improving performance.

Our practitioner guest is Peter M. Krask, who is an artist and coach based in New York City. Peter helps people maximize their creative and non creative output. By tapping into processes, he will share how processes from one aspect of our lives can be used to help us work through new and unfamiliar tasks in other parts of our lives.

Topics

(3:29) How processes reduce our cognitive load.

(7:38) You can use the same process but get a different outcome.

(14:50) Being intentional creates better processes.

(16:50) Flexible goals are motivational.

(20:14) Summary of what we’ve learnt.

Links

Joseph R. Keebler, PhD: https://faculty.erau.edu/Joseph.Keebler

Peter M. Krask: https://www.petermkrask.com/

PMK Creativity Guide: https://www.pmkcreativityguide.com/

Episode 128, Wendy Wood, PhD: Habits, Productivity and Being Gentle with Yourself: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/covid-19-crisis-wendy-wood-phd-on-habits-productivity-and-being-gentle-with-yourself/

Episode 232, Katy Milkman: How to Make Healthy Habits that Actually Last: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/katy-milkman-habits-that-last/

Episode 171, Roy Baumeister: Self Control, Belonging, and Why Your Most Dedicated Employees Are the Ones To Watch Out For: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/self-control-belonging-and-why-your-most-dedicated-employees-are-the-ones-to-watch-out-for-with-roy-baumeister/

Episode 276, Ayelet Fishbach, PhD: How To Stay Motivated So You Exceed Your Goals: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/motivation-to-exceed-your-goals/

Transport Your Thinking; Why We Need To Reframe Travel | Rory Sutherland & Pete Dyson Apr 24, 2022

Show notes

Transporting humans from A to B is about more than just speed, efficiency and duration. Comfort, Wi-Fi access, entertainment and our habits, among many other factors, influence our choice of transportation. As we become increasingly aware of the way our travel decisions affect climate change, how can behavioral science positively impact the journeys we make?

Let our entertaining discussion with Pete Dyson and Rory Sutherland take you on a journey through their new book, “Transport for Humans: Are We Nearly There Yet?” Pete is the Principal Behavioural Scientist at the UK Department for Transport and has paired up with Rory who needs little introduction to many behavioral science enthusiasts. The vice chairman of Ogilvy UK and the co-founder of its Behavioural Science Practice, Rory is also a guest on one of the most popular ever episodes of Behavioral Grooves, Episode 107: The Opposite of a Good Idea is a Good Idea.

Our episode, along with the book, appeals to the “frustrated but optimistic traveler.” We hope listening helps you reframe your journey.

Topics

(3:23) Welcome to Pete and Rory with speed round questions.

(9:05) Our transport preferences are all different, so the market should reflect that.

(13:36) The book for the frustrated but optimistic traveler.

(15:30) What do travelers value?

(20:27) How does human nature affect our use of transport?

(22:37) How passenger technology has influenced train journeys.

(24:51) The consequences of journeys on climate change.

(26:31) Transportation challenges in the US.

(35:56) Thinking holistically, Zoom is an example of transportation.

(39:01) Rebranding a bus route increases ridership.

(43:39) Listening to music while cycling or commuting?

(49:52) Grooving Session on how Pete and Rory transported our thinking!

Links

“Transport for Humans: Are We Nearly There Yet?” by Pete Dyson and Rory Sutherland: https://amzn.to/3KeWM6U

Episode 107, Rory Sutherland: The Opposite of a Good Idea is a Good Idea: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/rory-sutherland-the-opposite-of-a-good-idea-is-a-good-idea/

George Monbiot: https://www.monbiot.com/

Episode 287, Nick Epley: Why Talking To Strangers Is Actually Good For Your Wellbeing: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/talking-to-strangers/

Why Not All Nudges Work ”In The Wild” | Nina Mazar & Dilip Soman Apr 17, 2022

Show notes

Read Nudge and you are inspired by how behavioral science works. But how can we translate and scale behavioral science effectively into policies and organizations? Indeed, can all academic research be applied “in the wild”?

Our two guests on this episode, Nina Mazar PhD and Dilip Soman PhD have co-edited a book “Behavioral Science in the Wild” that addresses exactly this. If you’re a practitioner, wanting to apply behavioral science in corporate, non-profit, or governmental work, we think you should check this book out. It’s full of excellent ideas for how to apply behavioral science in the wild!

Nina Mazar is a professor of marketing and co-director of the Susilo Institute for Ethics in the Global Economy at the Boston University Questrom School of Business. Her work focuses on topics ranging from ethics to social & environmental impact. She sits on the board of Irrational Labs and belongs to the team of scientists of the Behavior Change for Good Initiative at Wharton.

Dilip Soman is a Canada Research Chair in Behavioural Science and Economics. His research is in the area of behavioral science and its applications to consumer wellbeing, marketing and policy. Together Nina and Dilip established the Director of the Behavioural Economics in Action Research Centre at Rotman [BEAR], on which Dilip still serves as director.

Our discussion with Nina and Dilip explores the journey of working on their book together and why it’s vital reading for all behavioral scientists. To summarize the discussion, as always, Tim and Kurt end the show with a Grooving Session to recap what we learn about behavioral science in the wild!

Topics

(5:04) Welcome to Dilip and Nina with speed round questions.

(10:01) Why do we need a book about applying behavioral science research “in the wild”.

(14:29) Why not all academic research is destined for the practitioner world?

(18:04) Social norms matter but the right reference group is vital.

(21:35) Background variables influence behavioral science in the wild.

(29:27) Speed of testing can be a barrier.

(31:33) Overcoming the issue of scalability.

(35:24) How your time frame can affect output.

(38:55) What to do when you don’t get the results you expect.

(44:07) Don’t get caught shopping in the nudge store.

(45:50) Music choices of Dilip and Nina.

(51:29) Grooving session about behavioral science in the wild.

Leading Human™

Leading Human™ Workbook and Playbook: https://www.behavioralgrooves-store.com/products/copy-of-the-leading-human-playbook-workbook-package

Leading Human™, Free Whitepaper Download: https://www.behavioralgrooves-store.com/collections/leading-human/products/human-centered-workplace-checklist

Links

“Behavioral Science in the Wild (Behaviorally Informed Organizations)”: https://amzn.to/3xxAD04

Nina Mazar: http://ninamazar.com/

Dilip Soman: https://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/FacultyAndResearch/Faculty/FacultyBios/Soman

Episode 102, Cristina Bicchieri: Social Norms are Bundles of Expectations: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cristina-bicchieri-social-norms-are-bundles-of-expectations/

Episode 232, Katy Milkman: How to Make Healthy Habits that Actually Last: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/katy-milkman-habits-that-last/

Episode 16, Nudge-A-Thon with Dr. Christina Gravert: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/nudge-a-thon-christina-gravert/

Episode 202, How Chaning Jang Works Around Not Being WEIRD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-chaning-jang-works-around-not-being-weird/

Behavioural Economics in Action at Rotman (BEAR): https://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/facultyandresearch/researchcentres/bear

Musical Links

Paul Simon “Graceland”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP6a-7MP91g

Mark Knopfler “What It Is”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGmtonlys5A

Kishori Amonkar “Swaranjali”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-FuttzRlWE

Dire Straits “Brothers in Arms”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhdFe3evXpk

Supertramp “Take The Long Way Home”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLP0y-X4uYs

Fleetwood Mac “Dreams”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3ywicffOj4

Subramaniam and Stephane Grappelli “Conversations”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFI4TzUDc-8&ab_channel=AhmadAlArabii

The 1988 Subramaniam-Bismillah Geneva: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGOp7APcuMs

The Cure “Just Like Heaven”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3nPiBai66M

Kate Bush “Wuthering Heights”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1pMMIe4hb4

The Steps Needed To Empower the Powerless | Julie Battilana PhD Apr 10, 2022

Show notes

Personality or wealth are often assumed to be prerequisites to gaining power, something that is only garnered by having control over others. An organization chart in a company, however, does not illustrate who has power within the workplace, it only tells you who has authority. And as we learn in this episode, authority and power are not the same.

By using workplace illustrations from the National Health Service (NHS) in the United Kingdom to a cigarette factory in France, Julie Battilana walks us through the precise definitions of power and authority. By understanding exactly what power is and how it really works, Julie breaks down the critical steps to successfully acquiring power and using it to disrupt hierarchies; by innovating, agitating and orchestrating.

Julie Battilana is the Joseph C. Wilson Professor of Business Administration in the Organizational Behavior unit at Harvard Business School and the Alan L. Gleitsman Professor of Social Innovation at Harvard Kennedy School, where she is also the founder and faculty chair of the Social Innovation and Change Initiative.

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Topics

(3:32) Welcome and speed round questions.

(7:29) Power and authority are NOT the same.

(11:59) Who are the most effective change makers?

(14:37) Power is having an influence over others but is also a freedom from the influence of others.

(16:15) How can we choose the right leaders?

(20:18) Empowering the powerless.

(25:57) The power of collectivism.

(30:17) Abuse of power by Putin.

(36:02) How technology plays a part in abuse of power.

(41:38) What checks on power are needed?

(45:29) Is there hope for the future?