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    Science

    8th Layer Insights

    Get ready for a deep dive into what cybersecurity professionals often refer to as the “8th Layer” of security: HUMANS. Welcome to 8th Layer Insights (8Li). This podcast is a multidisciplinary exploration into how the complexities of human nature affect security and risk. Author, security researcher, and behavior science enthusiast Perry Carpenter taps experts for their insights and illumination. Topics include cybersecurity, psychology, behavior science, communication, leadership, and more.

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    Copyright: © 2022 8th Layer Insights

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    Latest Episodes:
    The FAIK Files | A Hunch about Hutch Dec 06, 2024
    Show notes

    Note: We're posting Perry's new show, "The FAIK Files", to this feed through the end of the year. This will give you a chance to get a feel for the new show and subscribe to the new feed if you want to keep following in 2025.


    Welcome back to The FAIK Files— the show about artificial intelligence and natural nonsense!


    In this week’s episode:

    • Mason has an update on last week's shocking story of Google Gemini’s alleged threats against a user. Is this a glitch, a hack, or something more sinister?
    • We sit down with cybersecurity expert Justin “Hutch” Hutchins (author of The Language of Deception) to dive into his experience weaponizing large language models and what it means for the future of AI.
    • And finally, we lighten things up with some fun AI music experiments, showing that Perry & Mason may have too much time on their hands,


    Want to leave us a voicemail? Here's the magic link to do just that: https://sayhi.chat/FAIK

    You can also join our Discord server here: https://discord.gg/cThqEnMhJz


    *** NOTES AND REFERENCES ***

    Hutch's stuff:

    • Justin's Book: The Language of Deception: Weaponizing Next Generation AI
    • AI podcast: The Frontier Today (Apple Podcasts) (Spotify)
    • Justin and Len Noe’s podcast: Cyber Cognition (Apple Podcasts) (Spotify)
    • RSA Conference talk: Autonomous Hacking Systems - Future Risk or FUD
    • Houston Security Conference talk: This is how we lose control - Focused on the catastrophic/societal risks - P(Doom)


    Mason's update on theories about Google Gemini threatening people:

    • AI Didn’t Threaten Humanity—The Media Did: Breaking Down the Gemini Incident
    • LLM Context Windows
    • Lost in the Middle: How Language Models Use Long Contexts
    • Attention Sorting Combats Recency Bias in Long Context Large Language Models
    • Cognitive Overload Attack: Prompt Injection for Long Context


    Suno and Generative AI Music Generation:

    • Suno
    • Udio
    • Whispers in the Static (full song generated on Suno)
    • Experimental outro from today's episode (Suno)
    • Wired: US Record Labels Sue AI Music Generators Suno and Udio for Copyright Infringement
    • Soundiiz Blog: The music industry is at war against AI: Suno and Udio’s case


    *** THE BOILERPLATE ***

    About The FAIK Files:

    The FAIK Files is an offshoot project from Perry Carpenter's most recent book, FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions.

    • Get the Book: FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions (Amazon Associates link)
    • Check out the website for more info: https://thisbookisfaik.com


    Check out Perry & Mason's other show, the Digital Folklore Podcast:

    • Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-folklore/id1657374458
    • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2v1BelkrbSRSkHEP4cYffj?si=u4XTTY4pR4qEqh5zMNSVQA
    • Other: https://digitalfolklore.fm


    Want to connect with us? Here's how:

    Connect with Perry:

    • Perry on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/perrycarpenter
    • Perry on X: https://x.com/perrycarpenter
    • Perry on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/perrycarpenter.bsky.social

    Connect with Mason:

    • Mason on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mason-amadeus-a853a7242/
    • Mason on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/pregnantsonic.com

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    The FAIK Files | Consciousness, Scams, & Death Threats Nov 29, 2024
    Show notes

    Note: We're posting Perry's new show, "The FAIK Files", to this feed through the end of the year. This will give you a chance to get a feel for the new show and subscribe to the new feed if you want to keep following in 2025.


    Happy FAIKs-giving everyone! Welcome to the newly renovated and relaunched FAIK Files podcast. On this week's episode, Perry & Mason cover Anthropic's recent hiring of an employee focused on AI well-being, an AI grandmother from hell (for scammers), and Google's Gemini chatbot allegedly tells a user what it really thinks of them. Welcome back to the show that keeps you informed on all things artificial intelligence and natural nonsense.


    Want to leave us a voicemail? Here's the magic link to do just that: https://sayhi.chat/FAIK

    You can also join our Discord server here: https://discord.gg/cThqEnMhJz



    *** NOTES AND REFERENCES ***

    AI Wellbeing:

    • Anthropic has hired an 'AI welfare' researcher:https://www.transformernews.ai/p/anthropic-ai-welfare-researcher
    • It’s time to take AI welfare seriously: https://www.transformernews.ai/p/ai-welfare-paper
    • Taking AI Welfare Seriously: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2411.00986


    The problem of sycophancy in AI:

    • Suckup software: How sycophancy threatens the future of AI: https://www.freethink.com/robots-ai/ai-sycophancy
    • Towards Understanding Sycophancy in Language Models:https://arxiv.org/pdf/2310.13548


    AI Interpretability:

    • Mapping the Mind of a Large Language Model: https://www.anthropic.com/news/mapping-mind-language-model
    • Lex Fridman podcast interview with Dario Amodei, Amanda Askell, & Chris Olah: https://youtu.be/ugvHCXCOmm4


    Deceptive and self-serving tendencies in AI systems:

    • Sycophancy to subterfuge: Investigating reward tampering in language models: https://www.anthropic.com/research/reward-tampering
    • OpenAI o1 System Card: https://openai.com/index/openai-o1-system-card/
    • Announcing our updated Responsible Scaling Policy: https://www.anthropic.com/news/announcing-our-updated-responsible-scaling-policy


    AI Grandmother from Hell (for scammers):

    • Phone network employs AI "grandmother" to waste scammers' time with meandering conversations: https://www.techspot.com/news/105571-phone-network-employs-ai-grandmother-waste-scammers-time.html
    • YouTube video of Daisy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV_SdCfZ-0s


    AI Dumpster Fire of the Week (Gemini tells an end user what it really thinks about him):

    • Article: https://people.com/ai-chatbot-alarms-user-with-unsettling-message-human-please-die-8746112
    • Gemini interaction: https://gemini.google.com/share/6d141b742a13



    *** THE BOILERPLATE ***

    About The FAIK Files:

    The FAIK Files is an offshoot project from Perry Carpenter's most recent book, FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions.

    • Get the Book: FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions (Amazon Associates link)
    • Check out the website for more info: https://thisbookisfaik.com


    Check out Perry & Mason's other show, the Digital Folklore Podcast:

    • Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-folklore/id1657374458
    • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2v1BelkrbSRSkHEP4cYffj?si=u4XTTY4pR4qEqh5zMNSVQA
    • Other: https://digitalfolklore.fm


    Want to connect with us? Here's how:

    Connect with Perry:

    • Perry on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/perrycarpenter
    • Perry on X: https://x.com/perrycarpenter
    • Perry on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/perrycarpenter.bsky.social

    Connect with Mason:

    • Mason on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mason-amadeus-a853a7242/
    • Mason on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/pregnantsonic.com

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    FAIK Miniseries (sneak peek) | Chapter 3: The Mindset and Tools of a Digital Manipulator Oct 07, 2024
    Show notes

    This is Part Three of a ten-part miniseries exploring Perry Carpenter's latest book, FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions. Each episode kicks off with a dramatized reading of the "Whispers from the Static" vignette that opens the chapter, followed by an in-depth conversation with Perry Carpenter and Mason Amadeus, where they unpack the chapter's themes and real-world implications.


    Get the Book (Amazon Associate Link): FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions


    Check out the website for more info: https://thisbookisfaik.com


    Voice credits for the opening "Whispers from the Static": Kayla Temshiv


    This is the last episode we are publishing in this feed. If you enjoy The FAIK Files, be sure to follow the show's feed so you don't miss out on future episodes.


    Links to the show:

    • Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-faik-files-decoding-ai-deception/id1771521321
    • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7CGEktxUQAbgwQaWB922Ip?si=9-NazIazRgKCDXudoGwAdQ
    • All others: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2409237

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    FAIK Miniseries (sneak peek) | Chapter 2: New Frontiers of Deception: AI and Synthetic Media Sep 30, 2024
    Show notes

    This is Part Two of a ten-part miniseries exploring Perry Carpenter's latest book, FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions. Each episode kicks off with a dramatized reading of the "Whispers from the Static" vignette that opens the chapter, followed by an in-depth conversation with Perry Carpenter and Mason Amadeus, where they unpack the chapter's themes and real-world implications.


    Get the Book (Amazon Associate Link): FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions


    Check out the website for more info: https://thisbookisfaik.com


    We'll be posting episodes 1 through 3 on this feed. If you enjoy The FAIK Files, be sure to follow the show's feed so you don't miss out on future episodes.


    Links to the show:

    • Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-faik-files-decoding-ai-deception/id1771521321
    • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7CGEktxUQAbgwQaWB922Ip?si=9-NazIazRgKCDXudoGwAdQ
    • All others: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2409237

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    FAIK Miniseries (sneak peek) | Chapter 1: The Eternal Battle for the Mind Sep 30, 2024
    Show notes

    This is Part One of a ten-part miniseries exploring Perry Carpenter's latest book, FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions. Each episode kicks off with a dramatized reading of the "Whispers from the Static" vignette that opens the chapter, followed by an in-depth conversation with Perry Carpenter and Mason Amadeus, where they unpack the chapter's themes and real-world implications.


    Get the Book (Amazon Associate Link): FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions


    Check out the website for more info: https://thisbookisfaik.com


    We'll be posting episodes 1 through 3 on this feed. If you enjoy The FAIK Files, be sure to follow the show's feed so you don't miss out on future episodes.


    Links to the show:

    • Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-faik-files-decoding-ai-deception/id1771521321
    • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7CGEktxUQAbgwQaWB922Ip?si=9-NazIazRgKCDXudoGwAdQ
    • All others: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2409237

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Digital Mindhunters Sep 17, 2024
    Show notes

    In this conversation, Perry sits down with Dr. Bilyana Lilly to discuss her new book Digital Mindhunters (Coming Oct 30) and the intersection of cybersecurity, disinformation, and AI. She describes the narrative structure of her book, navigating a world of cyber threats and influence operations, and the evolving landscape of disinformation with AI amplifying threats. Dr. Lilly emphasizes the importance of awareness and education in combating misinformation and highlights the global threats posed by countries like Russia and China.


    Guests:

    • Dr. Bilyana Lilly (LinkedIn) (Twitter)


    References:

    • Digital Mindhunters, by Dr. Bilyana Lilly (Amazon Associates Link)
    • EU vs. Disinfo website
    • International Fact-Checking Network (IFCN) Code of Principles
    • Quote Origin: A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes
    • SE Community John Henry competition (where Perry's AI bot was able to compete!)
    • [PROVED] Unsuspecting Call Recipients Are Super Vulnerable to AI Vishing
    • Perry's LinkedIn post talking about the competition results

    Perry's Books (Amazon Associate Links)

    • NEW BOOK (Oct 1, 2024): FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions
    • Book website: https://thisbookisfaik.com
    • Transformational Security Awareness: What Neuroscientists, Storytellers, and Marketers Can Teach Us About Driving Secure Behaviors, by Perry Carpenter
    • The Security Culture Playbook: An Executive Guide To Reducing Risk and Developing Your Human Defense Layer by Perry Carpenter & Kai Roer

    Production Credits:

    Music and Sound Effects by Blue Dot Sessions, Envato Elements, & Storyblocks.

    Artwork by Chris Machowski @ https://www.RansomWear.net/ and Mia Rune @ https://www.MiaRune.com.

    8th Layer Insights theme music composed and performed by Marcos Moscat @ https://www.GameMusicTown.com/

    Want to get in touch with Perry? Here's how:

    • LinkedIn
    • Twitter
    • Instagram
    • Email: perry [at] 8thLayerMedia [dot] com

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Let's talk Social Engineering Sep 03, 2024
    Show notes

    In this episode, Perry catches-up with Stephanie (Snow) & JC Carruthers. They talk about social engineering, the DEFCON Social Engineering Community / Village, and share their favorite (and most embarrassing) social engineering stories.


    Perry also gives a quick update on his recent exploits entering an AI chatbot into the Social Engineering Village CTF, speaking at the DEFCON AI Village, and the release of his new book, FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions.


    Guests:

    • Stephanie (Snow) Carruthers: (LinkedIn) (Twitter)
    • JC Carruthers: (LinkedIn) (Twitter)

    References:

    • Social Engineering Community website
    • SE Community twitter page
    • SE Community John Henry competition (where Perry's AI bot was able to compete!)
    • [PROVED] Unsuspecting Call Recipients Are Super Vulnerable to AI Vishing
    • Perry's LinkedIn post talking about the competition results


    Perry's Books (Amazon Associate Links)

    • NEW BOOK (Oct 1, 2024): FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions
    • Book website: https://thisbookisfaik.com
    • Transformational Security Awareness: What Neuroscientists, Storytellers, and Marketers Can Teach Us About Driving Secure Behaviors, by Perry Carpenter
    • The Security Culture Playbook: An Executive Guide To Reducing Risk and Developing Your Human Defense Layer by Perry Carpenter & Kai Roer


    Production Credits:

    Music and Sound Effects by Blue Dot Sessions, Envato Elements, & Storyblocks.

    Artwork by Chris Machowski @ https://www.RansomWear.net/ and Mia Rune @ https://www.MiaRune.com.

    8th Layer Insights theme music composed and performed by Marcos Moscat @ https://www.GameMusicTown.com/

    Want to get in touch with Perry? Here's how:

    • LinkedIn
    • Twitter
    • Instagram
    • Email: perry [at] 8thLayerMedia [dot] com

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    What About Ethics? Jul 30, 2024
    Show notes

    On this episode, Perry gets to sit down with Ed Skoudis to discuss the simplicity and complexities of cybersecurity ethics. Ed's new book is The Code of Honor: Embracing Ethics in Cybersecurity.


    Guest:

    • Ed Skoudis (LinkedIn) (Twitter) (Website)

    Books and References:

    • The Code of Honor: Embracing Ethics in Cybersecurity, by Paul J. Maurer and Ed Skoudis
    • The Mysterious Case of Rudolf Diesel: Genius, Power, and Deception on the Eve of World War I, by Douglas Brunt
    • The Cybersecurity Code (downloadable): https://www.montreat.edu/cybersecurity-code/
    • The Code of Honor book page
    • YouTube Video: Inside SANS Holiday Hack Challenge 2023 | Host: Ed Skoudis | August 29, 2023

    Perry's Books (Amazon Associate Links)

    • NEW BOOK (Oct 1, 2024): FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions
    • Book website: https://thisbookisfaik.com
    • Transformational Security Awareness: What Neuroscientists, Storytellers, and Marketers Can Teach Us About Driving Secure Behaviors, by Perry Carpenter
    • The Security Culture Playbook: An Executive Guide To Reducing Risk and Developing Your Human Defense Layer by Perry Carpenter & Kai Roer

    Production Credits:

    Music and Sound Effects by Blue Dot Sessions, Envato Elements, & Storyblocks.

    Artwork by Chris Machowski @ https://www.RansomWear.net/ and Mia Rune @ https://www.MiaRune.com.

    8th Layer Insights theme music composed and performed by Marcos Moscat @ https://www.GameMusicTown.com/

    Want to get in touch with Perry? Here's how:

    • LinkedIn
    • Twitter
    • Instagram
    • Email: perry [at] 8thLayerMedia [dot] com

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Can You Really Tell if Something is Written by an AI? Jul 09, 2024
    Show notes

    On this episode, Perry gets to sit down with Jon Gillham. Jon is the founder and CEO of Originality.ai -- an AI content detection platform designed to help website owners, content marketers, writers and publishers hit 'publish' with integrity in the world of generative AI.


    In this interview, we get the lowdown on how AI content detection works, what it is good at, and where some of the current limits are.


    Guest:

    • Jon Gillham (LinkedIn) (Twitter) (Website)

    Books and References:

    • AI Content Detector Accuracy Review + Open Source Dataset and Research Tool, Originality.ai blog post
    • Is Using AI Tools the Same as Plagiarizing? A Legal Perspective, Originality.ai blog post
    • Empirical Study of AI-Generated Text Detection — Results as per An Empirical Study of AI-Generated Text Detection Tools, Originality.ai blog post
    • A Survey on LLM-Generated Text Detection: Necessity, Methods, and Future Directions
    • LLM-as-a-Coauthor: The Challenges of Detecting LLM-Human Mixcase

    Perry's Books (Amazon Associate Links)

    • NEW BOOK (Oct 1, 2024): FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions
    • Transformational Security Awareness: What Neuroscientists, Storytellers, and Marketers Can Teach Us About Driving Secure Behaviors, by Perry Carpenter
    • The Security Culture Playbook: An Executive Guide To Reducing Risk and Developing Your Human Defense Layer by Perry Carpenter & Kai Roer

    Production Credits:

    Music and Sound Effects by Blue Dot Sessions, Envato Elements, & Storyblocks.

    Artwork by Chris Machowski @ https://www.RansomWear.net/ and Mia Rune @ https://www.MiaRune.com.

    8th Layer Insights theme music composed and performed by Marcos Moscat @ https://www.GameMusicTown.com/

    Want to get in touch with Perry? Here's how:

    • LinkedIn
    • Twitter
    • Instagram
    • Email: perry [at] 8thLayerMedia [dot] com

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Money Laundering 101: a chat with Investigative Journalist Geoff White Jun 04, 2024
    Show notes

    On this episode, Perry gets to sit down with investigative journalist, author, and podcaster, Geoff White. They discuss Geoff's new book, "Rinsed: From Cartels to Crypto: How the Tech Industry Washes Money for the World's Deadliest Crooks", the state of global cybercrime, and (everybody's favorite topic) artificial intelligence.

    Guest:

    • Geoff White (LinkedIn) (Twitter)

    Books and References:

    • Rinsed: From Cartels to Crypto: How the Tech Industry Washes Money for the World's Deadliest Crooks, by Geoff White
    • RinsedGPT -- Generative AI questions/answers from the book, Rinsed
    • The Lazarus Heist: Based on the hit podcast, by Geoff White
    • Crime Dot Com: From Viruses to Vote Rigging, How Hacking Went Global, by Geoff White
    • The Lazarus Heist podcast (BBC)
    • YouTube video: Three Key Types of Cybercriminals, by Geoff White

    Perry's Books (Amazon Associate Links)

    • Transformational Security Awareness: What Neuroscientists, Storytellers, and Marketers Can Teach Us About Driving Secure Behaviors, by Perry Carpenter
    • The Security Culture Playbook: An Executive Guide To Reducing Risk and Developing Your Human Defense Layer by Perry Carpenter & Kai Roer

    Production Credits:

    Music and Sound Effects by Blue Dot Sessions, Envato Elements, & Storyblocks.

    Artwork by Chris Machowski @ https://www.RansomWear.net/ and Mia Rune @ https://www.MiaRune.com.

    8th Layer Insights theme music composed and performed by Marcos Moscat @ https://www.GameMusicTown.com/

    Want to get in touch with Perry? Here's how:

    • LinkedIn
    • Twitter
    • Instagram
    • Email: perry [at] 8thLayerMedia [dot] com

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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