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Talking About CPTSD And Breakups With Anna Runkle Sep 12, 2023

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If you’ve ever heard of the crappy childhood fairy then you are in for a treat. I had the pleasure of interviewing Anna Runkle who is the founder of the very popular YouTube channel, We talked about all kinds of amazing things, Intro to the crappy childhood fairy. 0:03 Complex post-traumatic stress disorder. 3:28 What Is abandonment? Melange? 7:54 How to deal with emotional flashbacks? 11:13 Rec repetition compulsion and repetition compulsion. 15:59 Dealing with the fantasy element. 23:01 What does limerence feed off of? 25:53 Twin flame and codependency. 31:04 The importance of telling your story. 33:32 How she changed her approach to dating. 38:45 Dating a man who met her. 41:45 The difference between value and value in relationships. 46:47 Important Links Mentioned In The Episode The Crappy Childhood Fairy YouTube Channel Crappy Childhood Fairy Website Buy Her Course On CPTSD Take Advantage Of Her Free Tool On Daily Practice Interview Transcript Chris Seiter 00:03Today we’re gonna be interviewing Anna Runkle, who has perhaps one of the most clever names or monikers she’s known as the crappy childhood fairy. So if you’re not familiar, she literally runs this YouTube channel called the crappy childhood fairy that has over half a million subscribers. So I just want to say thank you so much for coming on and doing this, there’s so much I want to ask you. But perhaps we can start a little bit by giving me the origin story about how this all came to be. Anna 00:36Where I’m, my channel has so much to do with relationships. That’s why I’m really excited to be talking to you. And I think we talk about a lot of the same things. And I talk about it from the angle of people, mostly women, who went through abuse and neglect as kids, which really affects the way we have relationships. And I learned about this through the school of hard knocks, I grew up in a commune with a drug addict, alcoholic mom. And a lot of the stuff that just goes with that with having a alcoholic family, the like cars in the yard and poverty and you know, nobody really looking out for you and nobody supervising. And so I had really common symptoms for kids who grew up that way. But when I was growing up, and even as even 10 years ago, people didn’t really know a lot about this. They knew that kids who had a rough childhood were prone to depression and anxiety. But gradually, the research has been coming out that there’s so much more to it, that there’s a neurological injury that can happen when kids aren’t taking care of properly, when especially the emotional neglect, like we know that physical abuse and sexual abuse are horribly harmful. But there’s this specific thing that happens in all of this. And especially with the emotional neglect, where there’s a the there’s a glitch in the neurological development, and actually connecting with people, you know, and this is where it really does affect romantic relationships to connecting with people feeling a sense of calm in your body, instead of like too agitated, or just completely bla, all of that stuff gets thrown off, it also throws off your immune system, your hormones, your, your heart, your lungs. And so gradually, it’s coming out that chronic chronic disease, the risk of it goes way up, if you were traumatized as a kid. So there’s a lot of research going on on this. And it’s sort of all over the place. And a lot of people say, Oh, I’m trauma informed. But I always say, you know, this is a really emerging science. And so what what I really recommend for people who have been through trauma and feel like it’s affected them, is to really be in charge to be their own researcher and to be sovereign over their own healing. And if they’re trying something that doesn’t seem to work for them, or they don’t feel like the big problem in their life is getting recognized. That’s how I used to feel, it might be time to find a different approach a different therapist or a different approach. So I’m not a therapist, I’m somebody who didn’t benefit from talk therapy. As it turns out, I thought there was something wrong with me. And it turns out, that’s a really normal thing for many people who are traumatized as kids that talking about it kind of makes it worse. And so there’s ways that you can process your feelings and your memories, and then get on with changing your life. And that’s the most important thing is changing your life. Chris Seiter 03:28So what was interesting is when I was going through your website, specifically, there were two things that stuck out to me. I’m just going to kind of follow my my intuition here. So the first thing I did when I’m with your website is I’m looking at you know, like the little sidebar or whatever, and it has this term called CPTSD, which I believe is complex, post traumatic stress disorder. But I started reading a little bit it seems like you kind of created your own childhood Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, do you want to talk Anna 04:05about PTSD, it’s sort of a colloquial, colloquial term. Everybody understands what I mean when I say childhood, PTSD, PTSD, we know what that is. So from childhood, that makes sense. And technically what it’s called is complex PTSD, and which is not only from childhood, but it’s the kind of PTSD that you get, which has it has a slightly different set of symptoms from say, straight up PTSD, which might be a combat veteran who went through this very bad couple of days, you know, or somebody who had a card car accident. Complex PTSD comes from chronic ongoing exposure to stress when it goes on all the time, like trauma is going to influence your body, your brain, your memories, all that stuff. When it goes on all the time, it starts to kind of get in there and affect how you develop. And so it has a slightly different set of symptoms. And a lot of people are walking around with it right now. Chris Seiter 05:00Yeah, so I actually think this is completely relevant to our audience. Because one of the things that I research a lot is breakups, right? And breakups can be quite traumatic. And what’s interesting neurologically or neuro chemically is that cortisol shoots way up. You know, cortisol is a stress hormone. But, you know, on average, if you get stressed throughout the day, it should take around three to four hours for your cortisol to kind of come down to normal, but to your point like this, this constant complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, if you’re engaging in activities, or you’re obsessing about your ex, you’re looking on social media, and today’s day and age does not make it any easier. Cortisol has a tendency to stay elevated. And if it stays elevated for a long period of time, it can take as long as six months for it to level out. So I think even the science is backing up what what you’re saying here? How do you think, oh, sorry, you go ahead, Anna 06:00I was just gonna say there’s a real disadvantage for somebody who was going through all that cortisol and a lack of like mirroring and touch and everything when they were little kids. And so already, there’s a, you know, that’s what that’s where the neurological dysregulation stems from, is, you know, you know, mirror neurons, I’m not a neurologist, but mirror neurons, they develop in response to, you know, meaningful connection with your mom with your caregiver. And if you were neglected, there’s part of your brain that can’t develop. And it might, you know, some of the symptoms of C PTSD, in some ways look like autism, it’s not autism, it’s a very different cause. And, but there’s some symptoms in common. And it might, it would be like difficulty connecting. And so that anxious attachment that you teach people about so much, so often goes along with neglect from childhood. And it’s not just psychological, it’s neurological. Chris Seiter 06:57So a lot of times when we’re looking at the attachment styles, specifically, the anxious attachment styles, I try to give people like the Cliff Notes version, like I try not to overwhelm them with too much. But one of the things I always harp on is this idea of core wounds. And specifically, the core wound of an anxious attachment style is someone who is terrified of being abandoned. But I guess what you’re arguing is that even you know, it’s all stemmed from childhood and the mirroring neurons and the lack of it, Anna 07:27well, not all of it, but it’s, you know, it sets you up your brain is developing your body and brain and, you know, intrinsic, we can’t develop in a vacuum, we develop in the arms of the people who love us, and through their talking with us and working with us and guiding us. And so like the way I grew up, for example, my mom, when I was a month old, she just took off with some new boyfriend, and my dad was stuck by himself. And he was working and he had to hire somebody to come in. And I don’t remember any of this. But this happened again and again. And it starts to explain a lot of stuff that I struggled with later, which is extremely anxious attachment, horrible abandonment wounds. What Pete Walker calls abandonment Melange, which is kind of like a special intense emotional cocktail, that not everybody gets. When you know, when abandonment occurs, when the end of a relationship occurs, even thinking about ending a relationship with somebody I couldn’t stand would like, set me off, and then I wouldn’t do it. So the the attachment with the insecure attachment kind of drives people who would that childhood trauma, it can drive, it’s this is nothing is across the board. But it’s a very common trait, to go rushing into relationships, sleep together real fast, how that whole bonding thing happened, you know, and then like two days into the whole thing, you’re just like, Oh, my God, what am I done? I don’t even like this person. But the abandonment wound is there to go, but don’t you leave because if you leave, you’re gonna get thrown into the worst depression that you’ve ever known. And so people are like, held hostage by these emotions that are at the beginning driven by this neurological dysregulation. So the approach I teach is first to recognize which part of all this trouble is the neurology and the neurological injury. And I only you know, this science is pretty new. It came out about 10 years ago, and there was a word for it dysregulation and the name Complex PTSD, it’s pretty recent that this stuff has had names. And I read the books that came out pretty early. And it was the hugest thing, and I had just gotten married for the second time. And I was going through a lot of upheaval and roller coaster with him, you know, in the first year of marriage, and then this information came out and I found out the name for what’s wrong with me and for me, because I’ve worked hard on myself for decades. I’ve been in Al Anon for 25 years. That’s the 12 step program for families of alcoholics which I certainly qualify. My you know, most of my family was alcoholic AND, and OR drug addicted. And I was going there and I, I mean, I really worked on my Self and I had written self help books, but I just really struggled around relationships in ways that made no sense. Like, I was a nice girl like me having problems at this level. And my husband, he’s, he’s a really good guy, I did not want to screw it up. But I realized, like, if I couldn’t figure out what was really wrong with me, I was gonna blow it in this relationship. And I and I looked at these books, and when I read them, I mean, I just about my, my jaw hit the floor, when I found out it’s called dysregulation. And I knew like, that is exactly what I have. No one had ever described it before. And it’s part of complex PTSD. And I, I remember, I just was like, Honey, honey, I gotta tell you this. And at the time, he was like, this, just you know, I don’t trust this, this doesn’t set. You know, this just sounds like one of your excuses. But luckily, he gave me time to figure it out. And I was able to radically improve, I had healed a lot from my childhood, but I had these crucial wounds around relationships, where I would kind of, like if something made me feel upset, I would just, I would be too mean, I would sort of pop off on him. And I would say things I didn’t mean, and it’s called emotional dysregulation. See, PTSD isn’t the only thing that has it. But it’s really common. There’s, it’s it’s a neurological thing when you take a kid who was intensely stressed a person, an adult who was intensely stressed as a kid, and you get them thinking about something stressful, like an argument with the spouse. Left brain, which is reasoning just starts to go dim and right brain, which is emotions just starts lighting up all over the place, which is exactly what it feels like. So in my mind and argument, it’s sort of like a switch flips, and it just seems much worse than it is. And then I’m saying things like, well, obviously, you don’t love me, and obviously, I shouldn’t be here anymore. And I go pack my suitcase. It was like some sort of coping mechanism. And once I had a name for it, I was able to completely stop all that. I just, I was like, Oh, it’s a thing. And I read a really good book by this guy, Pete Walker, see PTSD from surviving to thriving. And he said, This is an emotional flashback. And when it’s happening, the first thing you do is say, Oh, I’m having an emotional flashback. And he gives some steps of what to do. And I’ve sort of added some of my own over the years. But the first thing I do is stop trying to make pronouncements about what what’s wrong right now, or whose fault it is or what we’re going to do about it just stop and get reregulated. And then you can work out so much. And it was just utterly life changing. And so I started to make videos about it. And that’s the origin story is I began I found something that just was so revolutionary, and it built on and I’ll tell you about this in a minute. But it started 30 years ago, I learned some techniques that are very reregulating, I just didn’t know, I didn’t have a framework for like, why does this helped me so much? And therefore, why should I make sure I keep doing it every day, I would sort of do it when I felt like I needed it. And so now I do it twice a day, and I can stay it helps me just stay it’s like WD 40 For all your problems, you know, just loosens them up so you can start changing that what needs to be changed, release what needs to be released. And I teach that free. I’ll give you a link to that to share with your listeners. Chris Seiter 13:15Is that the daily practice that? Yeah, do you? Do you mind talking a little bit about like, what’s part of that daily practice? Anna 13:24Yeah, um, so I had sort of like hit rock bottom. I somebody. There was this time where everything went bad at the same time. I call it a trauma storm. But I got attacked on the street. This is 30 years ago now. But I got attacked on the street. I was beaten unconscious, just like randomly by strangers. Chris Seiter 13:43That has to freak you out. Yeah, it freaked me out. I Anna 13:46had a head injury and my broken jaw broken teeth. And it gave me PTSD. Chris Seiter 13:54Let’s slow down here this Yeah, yes. So you’re just walking randomly down the street and someone just attacks you. Anna 14:00So I was on a first date with my friend had set me up with somebody. I liked him. I thought maybe, you know, I was trying to get over like a major heartbreak. I was it was like really hard year where the person I love the most had decided not to be with me. And and so I was on my first first date. And we were walking home from having coffee. And it was it was dark out. But it didn’t seem like I mean, it was the sort of thing that we did in that neighborhood all the time is walk home after dark from a cafe. And just out of the blue. These four guys jumped out of a car and beat us unconscious. Chris Seiter 14:34And I know where they tried to steal. Anna 14:37Like, it’s funny, that kind of hurt more because it wasn’t ab…

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Talking About Codependency And Breakups With Julia Kristina Sep 11, 2023

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A few weeks ago I had the pleasure of interviewing Julia Kristina, a registered clinical counselor based out of Vancouver. We talked about all kinds of interesting things related to breakups and codependency. What is codependency? 0:03 Avoidant vs. codependent attachment styles. 5:43 The yearning for connection and codependent relationships. 11:10 Setting boundaries in a codependent relationship. 16:25 How long does it take your brain to reset? 23:43 Setting clear boundaries about not contacting your ex. 28:19 How to set boundaries. 33:34 Setting clear boundaries. 38:33 Codependency and codependency in relationships. 41:45 Masterclasses and resources. 47:10 Important Links Mentioned In The Episode Work With Julia Kristina Join The “Shift” Society Contact Julia Interview Transcript Chris Seiter 00:03All right, today we’re gonna be talking to Julia Kristina who holds a master’s degree in counseling in psychology. She’s also helped hundreds of men and women break through their biggest struggles with anxiety, worry, low self esteem, self doubt, I got this, this list just keeps going on through. But today, we’re gonna basically be talking to her about codependency how to improve your communication skills, or basically the boundary setting abilities that maybe you feel like you’re lacking in relationships, but I just wanted to say, thank you so much for coming on and doing this. It’s such a pleasure. Julia 00:35It is my pleasure, Chris to be here and having this conversation. Thanks for having me. Chris Seiter 00:41Okay, so the first thing I typically do when I have interview kind of coming up, I always like to do a little bit of homework, you know, a couple of hours before I come on, so I’m going through your YouTube channel and you have like 300,000 subscribers so it’s, it’s not like one of those small YouTube channels, you’ve got a pretty large audience, but the one video that stuck out to me was basically your so like, Do you ever do that thing on YouTube where you go to someone’s YouTube channel and you always just like, sort it by the most popular videos. Were totally sponsored other videos is about codependency and I immediately clicked with this one because I think it’s a perfect topic to talk about. So why don’t we talk a little bit about how to identify if you are in a or if you are basically in a codependent relationship or you are codependent yourself? Julia 01:32Oh, gosh, I mean, it can look a lot of different ways. So to talk about what codependency is, I think first we need to talk about that more what codependency isn’t and what it looks like to not be in a codependent relationship. So the opposite of codependence isn’t independence. The opposite of codependence is interdependence. So when we are in an interdependent relationship, it means that both people are there for each other. And both people have a secure sense of self within the relationship. So both people do need each other has to be a certain element of needing the person in your life or else what’s the point? You’re just living parallel lives, as opposed to interdependent lives? And so yeah, just really think about that. What does it mean to be interdependent? It means that I need this person in certain aspects. So I just got to throw a frog in my throat. Chris Seiter 02:37You know, it’s a good, it’s a good, it’s alive, we are alive. Julia 02:42We are not we are not this is not AI. Chris Seiter 02:45Unfortunately, or fortunately, rather, it’s not it’s not AI. Yeah. Julia 02:52And so really just looking at how do I be dependent on this person, but also be dependent on myself kind of in that same mix. And so what codependence is, is it’s really becoming overly dependent on someone else, for our sense of self. For our identity, we think that somebody else is going to sorry, Jerry Maguire, but you were wrong, complete us. And so we go, and someone’s gonna solve the right thing, right, and we think someone’s going to someone is going to solve our problems and make everything better. Interestingly enough, research shows that people who are in a relationship are only Contrary to popular belief, slightly happier, overall, in general, than people who are single. So that’s just a stat which basically tells us that just sort of, in general, people who are in relationships in like a committed relationship are, in general, are happier, but not as much happier as we thought because no matter where we go, that’s where we are. We bring ourselves into any circumstance or situation. And so you’re gonna bring yourself into a relationship, there’s certain things about being in a relationship, they’re going to make your life better, you’ve got a built in friend to do things where if you’ve got someone to plan with, you’ve got someone to, you know, go through life with the person to talk about the mundane mundane things about your everyday life with. But then you also have someone to navigate and negotiate and problem solving someone else’s schedule and someone else’s preferences and someone else’s ways of doing things and like all of the other stuff that comes with it. So you kind of get you know, you get the pros and the cons. Same with being single, you get the pros and the cons. So they can really just look at that. When people think about being codependent. They’re convinced that they need this person in their life in order to be okay. And that’s just not true. And I think Chris Seiter 04:59That is where most of our audience is, you know, I I like to run polls with the audience. So one of the big things that we’re we look at is the attachment styles of individuals. So we asked our audiences like, hey, what what is your attachment style and overwhelmingly the attachment style they had was anxious, preoccupied, but I also asked them hey, what do you think your exes attachment style is? Because most of the people here are going through breakups. And they said overwhelmingly, like 70% said, their ex is a dismissive avoidant. So you have that anxious pairing and that dismissive, avoidant pairing, which I would assume is kind of a breeding ground for these type of codependent relationships. Do you think you could talk a little bit about that? Julia 05:43Yeah, so it’s like it’s almost like this thrill of the chase, the more unavailable something is, the more you want it, and the other side of codependent so there’s a one side of codependence where you kind of rely on someone in need them. But then the other side of the codependence is if you’re someone who needs to be needed. Right. So So one person is the needy one, right. So that would be the anxious and then one person is the needs to be needed, which would tend to more be the avoidant where they want to be needed, but then end up feeling suffocated and then push that person away, which causes them to feel rejected, which cause brings out more neediness. And so the dance kind of goes on where there’s a lot of push pull, where you might want to be you know, you need to be needed, you need to feel important, you need to feel essential in someone’s life, like you are the strings that are holding that person together. But as soon as it gets to be too much, you push them away, and the more you push them away, the more their neediness flares up, and it becomes this sort of this sort of dance of a push and pull. And so that’s that’s often how that can show up with anxious and avoidant attachment styles. And also understanding that avoidant attachment is also an anxious attachment. Right? It’s a different iteration of anxious attachment attachment. It’s more the anxiety of letting someone get too close. Because, you know, there’s a whole bunch of experiences and ideas and stories about what that means if we let someone get too close to us. So all of us desire closeness, but then there can be fear that shows up and prevents that from happening in a healthy way. Chris Seiter 07:23Well, you know, what’s really interesting about that is your like the third psychologist that I have a I have interviewed that has said that the avoidant sort of attachment style stems from anxiety, and it doesn’t make so much sense because you know, that whatever avoidant mechanism that comes into play usually is coming during some sort of trigger point where their independence is feeling threatened and they grow anxious, and their avoidance is just basically a symptom of that anxiousness. Julia 07:54Right. It sounds good. Chris Seiter 07:55Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what I find so interesting about it is to me, so I’ve interviewed a lot of people. And that’s like a common theme that keeps popping up. But it seems like the literature that is online when you read like a Psychology Today article never really mentions the fact that there’s this really intricate connection between dismissive avoidance and the anxiety. They just talk about dismissive avoidance and black and white terms. Julia 08:27Yeah, I mean, dismissive, avoidant, all just really understanding that when it comes to human behavior, all of it is purposeful. Right? All behavior is purposeful, there’s always a reason why someone is doing, what they’re doing acting, how they’re acting, interacting, how they’re interacting. And so what the research shows that people who have more the avoidant personality or sorry, avoidant attachment style, is that they were, there was a lot of emotional neglect, or even physical neglect as a child. And so as children we are, we need attachment, like we need to attach to our attachment figures. That’s why they’re called attachment figures. And this is where so much of this stems from, we need that secure attachment. But in the absence of that secure attachment, little brains are so incredible, the way that they will adapt, the human brain is built for survival. And so if you are not able to depend on someone, if someone is not there for you, when you need them, if they are not able to meet your emotional needs, then that part of your brain will kind of like shut off and get pushed aside. Because it would be it would it wouldn’t make sense to keep clamoring for something that isn’t available. And it requires too much energy to keep clamoring for something that doesn’t available. So that adaptive these incredible little brains of these little beings of children will just kind of stop seeking that and it will kind of shut down and they will learn to kind of keep themselves held back because it’s not safe to to attach it’s there’s nothing there to attach to. It’s not safe to tell Ain’t no there’s nothing to lean into. So they will become more sort of independent within themselves, more kind of self sustaining within themselves. Although the craving for love and connection never goes away, it just doesn’t ever really feel safe to get close. Now the mistake a lot of people make, they’re like, oh, there’s this guy, I know, we had this, you know, traumatic childhood, and I can see that he really just wants love. So I’m going to be one, the one that brings it out to him, I’m going to be the one that changes him, I’m going to be the one that like he finally the bad boy, or the, you know, the kind of fix, right, I’m gonna, I’m gonna, I’m gonna be the one that makes him because there’s just he’s got so much potential, right? We’ve heard that so many times, I’m going to be the one that he finally gets to live out his full potentials and feel safe and be this, you know, wonderful, attentive, present consistent partner that I know he can be. And so that is the codependent thing to is just been like, I’m going to be the one that fixes this, because I see it in there. And it’s not they’re not wrong, it is in there. But you know, the mistake we made is like, you didn’t cause it. You can’t fix it. Yeah, Chris Seiter 11:10I mean, so what’s really fascinating about about what you said, just going back, actually, to the yearning for connection and how adaptable young brains are, I mean, you even see that I think in like Russian orphanages, or Ukrainian orphanages, like you’ll go in, and the babies are just quiet, you know, because they know, no one’s going to come get them. So the brain sort of is adapted. So if you, if anyone’s sort of skeptical about the attachment aspect from childhood, I mean, there’s a prime example or an extreme unfortunate, unfortunately, extreme level. But most of the people listening to this, I feel like will push back on believing they are in a co dependent relationship, even when a lot of the signs are there. So what do you say to people who kind of, I think in their heart understand or maybe logically understands, like, Okay, I have a lot of these signs of being sort of codependent. You know, like, the, basically the, the connection you just described, if like, I’m gonna be the one to fix them, you know, I’ll be the one to get them to turn the corner. And then, but in their heart, they just won’t accept it. How do you get people to have this paradigm shift to where they’re like, Okay, I need to work on recovering from this. Julia 12:26Yep. So if your partner not responding to calls or responding to texts, you know, you don’t know where they are all the time. But they’ve never given you any reason to mistrust them, but not kind of being able to have a handle on where they are, what’s going on and whether or not respond to you. And you immediately go into anxiety, or fear or panic, or desperation. That’s a sign of codependence or an anxious attachment style. Your listeners, right, unless they’ve given you reason to mistrust them, right. Or they’ve shown themselves to be Chris Seiter 13:10people here that have not, I’m just letting you know. Yeah, that’s unfortunate. But yeah, yeah, yeah, I love. Julia 13:17Yeah, really clear sign. Another really clear sign is if your partner is just like needing some quiet time, they’re not being rude to you, but they’re kind of quiet, or they’re just like, after a long day, they just need kind of time to like, tune out or shut off, and you take it personally, and you’re automatically oh my gosh, what did I do? Why are they mad at me? Or why are they punishing me? Why are they doing this like this, like, they can’t do this, this is so bad, this is so selfish of them, right? It automatically goes into like you taking it personally and and either thinking you’ve done something wrong or thinking that they are being wrong or unfair for needing to just have some quiet time to just need to like unwind and not have a big you know, debrief immediately at the end of the day. If your partner you know likes to have friends or hobbies that are outside of the relationship now, not to say that they’re you know, if you’re in like a long term committed relationship, they’re going out like five or six, six night nights a week and never actually like investing in the relationship doesn’t ever want to seem to be around or never really planning things for you to do not that but if your partner’s like maybe some like sometimes I want to go out with the guys or the girl is sometimes she’s like I want to go out with the girls or wants to like have a hobby that separate from you. This is this other part of interdependence. I’ll speak on that a little bit more after I finish this. This part is if you start to be like oh well why did they want to do things without me must mean that they don’t really love me. They don’t really care about me like we have to do everything together or else that means that you know, they don’t they’re abandoning me or they don’t really care about me if that’s happening. If you Find that them having other friends, just friends completely platonic friends of the same gender, if you’re in a heterosexual relationship of the other gender, if you are in a, in a homosexual relationship, like whatever that is, and you start to feel very threatened by that, right, my partner has other people that they want to spend time with, even if it’s, you know, completely platonic, you start to feel threatened by th…

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This Is How To Handle Anxiety After A Breakup Aug 19, 2023

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This is Tati Garcia, She is a licensed professional counselor specializing in helping individuals with high functioning anxiety. What’s high functioning anxiety? Well, I had the pleasure of asking her myself: One of the primary distinctions is that someone experiencing high-functioning anxiety may appear to be doing well externally. This could be someone who is successful, able to maintain a job, and can handle their day-to-day tasks efficiently. However, internally, they are grappling with anxiety. The symptoms can be consistent across different types of anxiety, such as overthinking, excessive worrying, and feeling constantly on edge or tense. Honestly, Tati is a perfect guest to have onto our podcast because not only is our average client anxious, But she gave some incredible advice on how to cope with the anxiety you may be feeling after a breakup. Important Things Tati Talked About On This Episode What Is high functioning anxiety? 0:03 How high-functioning anxiety is related to attachment styles. 5:34 How to label your emotions? 11:42 Redirection technique to help with anxiety. 15:31 How does one manage to control anxiety? 25:04 Has anxiety gotten worse with the advent of technology? 30:07 How to deal with stress and anxiety. 36:58 Important Resources Tati Talked About Tati’s Website High functioning anxiety quiz Tati’s Course Coach With Tati Her Podcast Interview Transcript Chris Seiter 00:03Today we’re gonna be talking to Tati Garcia, who is a licensed professional counselor and coach specializing in high functioning anxiety. She has 13 years of experience in mental health. And she runs the very popular YouTube channel slash podcasts calmly coping. So I just wanted to say thank you so much for coming on and doing this because we have a lot of anxious listeners, and I’m sure you can give them all kinds of tips. Tati 00:27Yeah, thank you so much for having me here. I’m excited to get into it. Chris Seiter 00:31All right. So high functioning anxiety, how is that different than just normal anxiety? What are like what, what’s the distinction between those two? Yeah, so Tati 00:41one of the main distinctions is somebody who is experiencing high functioning anxiety, if they appear to be doing well on the outside, so maybe somebody who is successful, who’s able to hold a job who is able to go about their day to day and often do it very well. However, on the inside, they’re really struggling with anxiety which you know, the symptoms can be similar regardless of what kind of anxiety is but it’s, you know, BB overthinking things worrying a lot, feeling on edge, and tense. Assuming the worst case scenario and situations, there can be a lot of physical symptoms that go along with that, like digestive issues, tension in your body headaches, shaking, and you know, it can, you know, the main difference is that with anxiety, just in general, it often tends to hold people back in avoidance. And so, you know, people, if there’s something in particular that you’re feeling anxious about, you might tend to avoid the thing and not want to do whatever it is that that thing is. So if it’s, you know, public speaking, you’re gonna want to avoid public speaking. But with high functioning anxiety, the fear and anxiety actually propels somebody forward into taking action, and into oftentimes overachieving or busyness and difficulty with relaxing. And so you know, somebody who has high functioning anxiety could potentially meet the criteria for a mental health disorder, but many times they because they are like, on the outside appear to be doing well. And other people may not recognize what they’re going through, it can be more difficult for them to seek out help, and they may not feel as understood. Chris Seiter 02:40So what’s really interesting as you were talking, so last night, I was doing, you know, the whole scrolling through Netflix looking for something. And I stopped on this documentary about this professional cyclist named Mark Cavendish. And he’s, like, known as maybe the greatest sprinter and like the Tour de France, like he would just went all the stages. 03:01But he was doing really incredibly. Chris Seiter 03:07But then something, something happened, he got some sort of like endurance disease, I forgot the technical term for it. But he just continued, like, spiraled and pretty much exactly what you were talking about what the high functioning anxiety was, like him to a tee, to the point where he was avoiding getting any kind of help, he would just sort of double down and try to, over achieve to to accomplish those goals. So I’m kind of curious, like, this high functioning anxiety that you’re talking about. It’s not like someone just like wakes up and you know, maybe you’re like an anxious person to begin with. But is there like a slow progression toward the high functioning anxiety? Or is it just like, like a switch, like a light bulb? Going off? Tati 03:52Yeah, that’s a good question. I mean, that’s something that’s hard to say I what I’ve noticed in the clients and students that I’ve worked with is that there tends to be similar characteristics and personality traits that those with high functioning anxiety have, like, you know, being somebody who is hard working and somebody who is reliable and persistent. And so the kind of those traits that will result in like continuing to take action and keep going. However, you know, they’re like, any other personality trait or like any other mental health disorder, like it falls on a spectrum. And so, you know, there can be differing degrees to which people experiencing it, experience it and there can also be different contributing factors. So it could be you know, the way that somebody was raised, and you know, they were maybe in school did really well and we’re a perfectionist and focused on getting the best grades and then you know, kind of continued with that approach into adulthood. You know, it could be something that is gradual. I don’t know if there’s necessarily like, kind of a flip switching overnight. And oftentimes, it is the thing where many people don’t really recognize that they’re struggling with it, because they just feel like, well, this is just the way that I am. Because this is how they’ve lived their life for, you know, whatever period of time. Chris Seiter 05:34So, in our coaching practice, we study a lot of attachment styles, you know, we look at the kind of behaviors that people’s exes are exhibiting and the kinds of behaviors that our clients are exhibiting. And what’s really interesting is something that you said about the high functioning anxiety is they tend to avoid confrontation or things that I think will trigger their anxiety. But I’m curious, does that have anything to do with you know, like, typically, with the insecure attachment styles you have, like the dismissive avoidant, and the priyad, anxious, preoccupied, you know, the fearful avoidant and everything? Do you? Do you like tend to find that people with high functioning anxiety or avoidance or preoccupied, like, have you done any research on that? Or is that just there’s not enough? Tati 06:24That I’m not aware of? And I and I think that as far as I know, now, I’m no expert on like attachment styles or anything. But the way that people behave in relationships is oftentimes, like there can be parallels, of course, but you know, I think that it’s it’s not necessarily correlated with the types of personal or individual mental health stroke struggles somebody have has, of course, I think there can be contributing factors and reasons as to why somebody behaves a certain way in a relationship, but I think it’s it’s really rooted in like, you know, attachment theory says, In those early relationships, yeah, that somebody has with a parent or caregiver or, you know, other adults in their life. That’s going to result in, you know, the way that they are experiencing other relationships into adulthood. Chris Seiter 07:39Yeah, I mean, that that seems to track were one of the things we notice is that a lot of the exes that we study tend to have very avoidant approaches to the breakup. Whereas a lot of our clients tend to be on the other end of the spectrum where they are just trying to problem solve. A lot of times you have to get them out of the mindset of, hey, I want my ex back and start like saying, like, hey, stop being so codependent, let’s work on you being sort of independent. So I’m curious, someone who has high functioning anxiety? What are some of the tips or coping mechanisms that you often work with? Like if someone were if I were to sign up? If I have high functioning anxiety? Let’s say I do I have high functioning anxiety Totti? Fix me what what are the top tips that you would give me? Tati 08:31Yeah, so first, it’s addressing like the underlying root causes, and and looking at what is getting you in this place and keeping you stuck here. And a lot of times, that’s going to be emotional awareness, and just like a general understanding and recognition of how you’re feeling. You know, many people, unfortunately, it’s not something that we’re like, taught in school or educated on how to recognize and process different emotions, and especially if somebody’s going through a breakup, there can be a lot of emotions present. And it can be very challenging and destabilizing and unsettling. And, you know, studies demonstrate that just the act of labeling your emotions actually helps to deactivate the, how strong you’re experiencing them. So there’s a part of the brain that’s called the amygdala that’s responsible for you know, the anxiety reaction, but also for strong emotional reactions. And so when people just are able to name an emotion that they’re feeling, it actually how strongly the amygdala is activated in the brain decreases. So that is kind of like one small thing that seems like might not make a big of a deal but in the long run that can really help Just in general, being verbal about how it is you’re feeling or getting it out in some way. So maybe it’s writing things down in a journal, you know, when you can get what’s in your head out, that can really help you to understand more what’s going on inside and help to give you more of a sense of control as to what you’re going through. And then it can be something that you can look at, what are the thoughts, what are the beliefs that you’re having a lot of times with high functioning anxiety, also, with somebody that’s going through a breakup, there can be a lot of negative thoughts and limiting beliefs that people have. Maybe it is, you know, with a breakup, somebody might be personalizing things and saying, like, This ended, because you know, it’s all my fault. You know, I could have done something differently. And so, you know, with somebody with high functioning anxiety, there could be this belief that I’m not good enough. Or there’s, you know, something wrong with me, or, you know, they maybe they have something coming up, and they think, the worst case scenario about the situation. So, one helpful step can be to look at your thoughts, and actually question them in NSS, do they actually match the evidence in the situation? Like, if you were to take a third person’s perspective, is this actually an objective way of looking at things and oftentimes, when we’re in a state of strong, heightened emotions, our thoughts are, tend to be very exaggerated and often focused on the negative, especially when you’re in a place of anxiety. Chris Seiter 11:42Yeah, there’s a lot of negative self talk, unfortunately, that we see in our community. What are your thoughts on? So like, you mentioned labeling your emotions, and I’m assuming, like you mentioned, labeling your emotions, and then you mentioned sort of just getting your emotions down. But I kinda want to go back to the labeling emotions aspect. Is that a specific act that you’re just doing internally, like a lot of self slash shadow work, where you’re trying to figure out like, Okay, I’m feeling I’m having this irrational thought right now? Or is that something when you’re labeling your emotions, you need to actually write it down in the journal to actually make it? I don’t manifest it, or in some way, what is there, I’m assuming writing it down would probably be the correct approach. Tati 12:30Yeah, and you know, there’s no right or wrong way. I think for a lot of people writing it down helps. But everybody’s different. Not everybody likes to write things down. And I like to recommend a tool called the emotions wheel, you can just Google it. But basically, it’s kind of like a visual representation of different emotions. That can help you to identify how you’re feeling. And really, what that does is, it’s just validating when you can see that and label that and recognize that, and it’s a way of helping you process it, and work through it. Because oftentimes, people will tend to have like their go twos for how they’re feeling. And it’s really just like building the vocabulary, of an awareness of how you’re feeling, because then that will help you to better understand yourself. So then you can better understand what tools to use. Because if you’re feeling frustrated, the way you’re going to cope with it might be different than if you’re feeling anxious or overwhelmed. So Chris Seiter 13:40let’s say you are feeling really, like one of the behaviors that I noticed a lot of our clients is they’re obsessing about what their ex is doing. And what I tend to tell them is, when you go through a breakup your cortisol, like spikes, like insanely, and cortisol is associated with stress. So the stress often makes you more anxious. And the more you engage on social media, or spy or do things like that you’re actually keeping your cortisol in this elevated state. So my challenge when I’m coaching people is trying to get them out of this negative feedback loop where they’re constantly going. Maybe they see their ex on a date. Oh, horrible. And it’s just like, they’re, they just kind of keep coming back from it. How do I get them out of that cycle and maybe redirect them onto something a little bit more positive? Tati 14:29Yeah, I think when when somebody gets in that obsessive cycle, it’s because our brains are information seeking and we don’t do well with uncertainty. And so you know, when somebody is experiencing a breakup, that’s a huge level of uncertainty, a huge level of destabilization. And like you mentioned, like stress levels, cortisol levels go up and so what we have to do in that type of situation is start to just even recognize when somebody engages in this behavior. How is it making them feel? Because oftentimes there can be the urge that okay, I just need to see how my ex is doing or check in or, you know, because now there’s been like, breaking communication, so you have no level of understanding of what’s happening with them. But kind of assessing, okay, is this actually helping? You know, if we look at this is kind of the obsessive behavior. It’s, it’s not OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder, but it’s kind of like, it’s a trait of OCD. And so it’s what happens with OCD. And again, I’m not saying that these people who are going through breakups have OCD, but like, the way that the behavior works is that you know, you have an obsession, you have these thoughts, that, okay, I need to check or do something in order to decrease my anxiety in order to help me to feel better or more certain about the situation, and then you engage in the checking behavior. And that helps to relieve the anxiety for a little bit, but actually, it it prolongs it in the long run. And it just maintains the anxiety. And so what’s really important is to look at what is again, like getting to the root, like, what is driving that urge and that obsession and that desire to check? And assessing? What are the fears, worries, thoughts that the person is having? So maybe it’s, you know, I’m worried that they’re…

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Success Story: This Woman Got Her Ex Back After Finding Herself Aug 05, 2023

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I had the pleasure of interview Lee a few days ago and I was blown away at her approach to her breakup. Not only did she really buy in to putting the focus on herself (as opposed to her ex) but she absolutely KILLLED IT during the texting phase. Check out some of the things we talked about in our interview, The beginning of the breakup. 0:02 Getting back into the game after a breakup. 3:35 No contact for 45 days. 7:41 How she got into the coaching world. 11:57 Coffee grinders and coffee. 17:12 The importance of the internal part of the process. 23:40 Not cool things that were not cool. 28:54 There’s no such thing as an innocent cup of coffee. 33:40 The most important epiphany she had. 39:23 Interview Transcript Chris Seiter 00:02All right, today we have a another success story. We have Lee here who is going to tell us all about her situation. And specifically, she wanted me to highlight the importance of the work she did during the texting phase. So I’m eager to get into that. But thank you so much for coming on and doing this. Lee 00:17Oh, thanks for having me. Actually, thank you very much for creating this program. I purchased. Probably all of the programs I could think of five, perhaps in addition to yours, so Chris Seiter 00:31yeah, you were saying that, you know, the big ones. Lee 00:33The big hit heavy hitters, Chris Seiter 00:36right? You always you always I find it’s like sometimes people, you know, they just jive with different things better than than others. But I’m, I’m blessed to have you here. So, again, thank you for doing this. Why don’t you take us back to the beginning of men? I don’t know, if you want to take take it from like the beginning of the relationship or the beginning of the breakup. One. I’ll just leave that to you. Lee 01:02So I had met my significant other online. We had a long texting fees. About three months before we met in person. The first time around, we call that the first relationship. And then we met, it was like a fireworks type, relationship and person. Things were really heavy. I had had a surgery, he was there for me. He met my son, he was in my family. He started living with me, but he still had his own apartment, which is a very avoidant thing to do. Chris Seiter 01:46So did you guys move in together? Like, way too quickly? Like how long did that take to unfold? Exactly? Lee 01:53Well, so we’re in our mid 40s, he’s a year and a half younger than me. So I mean, I would say about 45 minutes, 45 Chris Seiter 02:01minutes, 45 minutes. That’s the Lee 02:05relationship. He was there No, five months. And it was, um, you know, he was here all the time. But he wasn’t like, contributing as much. And we had problems, but I was afraid to broach the topics. Um, he had sort of done this. He had had kind of some money relationships with his, his ex wife and I have a son. So it’s like, I have a co parent relationship that I also needed to kind of work out the kinks with. And that sort of, I think kind of gave him some Chris Seiter 02:41pause difficulty. Yeah, I mean, especially so you mentioned that he might have been dismissive avoidant. How did he handle that? Okay, sure. Okay. Well, so he, so how long did it take him to actually start running away? And what was his reasoning during the breakup? Lee 03:01So the first time I think he technically ran away, he helped his ex wife move across the country, and I had a very anxious reaction to it and, and pushed him away. So out of like a protest behavior. Chris Seiter 03:16I mean, you could easily argue that’s not anxious behavior. That’s normal behavior, but okay. Lee 03:22Yeah, no. Well, yeah, I mean, I had some. Yeah, I mean, that is normal behavior. I was like, What is this? Yeah, there were things that were chipping away at my security throughout the relationship. And that had kind of driven me toward, like, these points of feeling very anxious. In the so when then November, I think, so we had met in June, was when he first broke up with me. And I, like begged and learned him back. Second time, was in December, and I had purchased this program and another one, and I had read that other one, and then I had gotten him back. And then in April 29 of the next year, I so we had been together for 11 months, we’d had a couple blowouts and one of which I had like a kind of like a meltdown in public and I had lost a lot of emotional control. So two weeks after that I came home from work and all his stuff was gone. Chris Seiter 04:39No explanation at all just like the actual ghosting there in person for you to see. Right. Okay. So I just work texted, I Lee 04:54netted or you know, I was like, are you why are you doing this to us like what the hell Oh, and what am I gonna say to my son? And like, you’ve left a family basically, like you became a part of a family, and then you left it. So like, what’s up with that? When, and I saw him and brought all of his stuff. And he said that he never wanted to see me again. And he never wants to talk to me again. He was like, smoothing out his clothes. Like, he’s obviously still attracted to me. You know? Yeah. Chris Seiter 05:26I’m very nervous in this moment. Lee 05:29Yeah. And I did not bring any peace. Probably what I should have done in retrospect, is just not say anything. I can give myself some time to calm down. But I did not. And I kind of like went after that situation to the very anxious thing, which is like, what are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? But knowing that, you know, he had already made up his mind. And so Chris Seiter 05:59he’s left you, you approach him at his work very anxiously. You do everything basically, you’re not supposed to do. I’m assuming this does not work out well, for you at first. Lee 06:10No, it doesn’t. He just pushes me away. And then yeah, I’m like, Well, can we talk about this in seven days, you know, this is like, an from another program that I read, it’s like, okay, now you’re doing damage control, you know, you’re trying to like, reestablish trust. And ultimately, what I didn’t realize is that, like, both of our nervous systems were on like, super high alert. And like, I really should have just backed off. And let it kind of smooth over because I had heard through his roommate that he was really hurting in May. And if I had done the, the break, and like, let myself calm down and not not and just let him do it, probably things would have gone a different course. However, what I feel this program did was forced me to look at myself with like, the ungettable girl content, doing the Trinity. Just sort of like applying these things. Because it’s very easy to just like, sort of like, focus everything out on them and say, Oh, well, this is them. And that’s their fault. And that’s what they did wrong. But at some point, I had an epiphany of like, oh, this is what I’ve been doing wrong. So Chris Seiter 07:36at this point, when you’re focusing on this stuff, have you already implemented like the No Contact Rule. Lee 07:41So I went into the No Contact Rule. And then, about 12 days after I sent like a goodbye, text, and vacated with music. I just start the No Contact Rule all over again. Chris Seiter 07:57Alright, so you made it 12 days, you sent the way you said, like, you communicate with like, some sort of music video or something like that. So I sent like a Yo, La Tengo song that was very sad. And like, you know, where are your emotions on your sleeve? Like? Lee 08:13Yeah, you know, thank you so much. And I hope you find all the happiness you’ve ever wanted, okay. And I found like, myself on the anniversary of our, like, the, the day that he told me, he loved me, which was the third of July, I found myself calling or no, the second of July I like, called him and totally just was like, I’m doing great, and Chris Seiter 08:43overcorrecting is the correct term there. You know, overcorrecting, trying to be like, Okay, and how does that go? How does that how does that approach work? Lee 08:54Horribly, he’s just like, I can’t be with you. And, you know, he told me that he couldn’t see me and that, you know, I was being silly by thinking he didn’t love me. But he just, you know, and he doesn’t have any social media. There’s no way I can really keep in contact with him. There’s no way he can really keep tabs on me. He’s kind of atypical in that way. So yeah, that was a big thing for me. So I’m like, Alright, no contact for 45 days. Chris Seiter 09:29So you’ve had maybe a couple of false starts during no contact? Yeah. Is this the one that kind of like sticks? Lee 09:37Yes. Okay. So then, you know, I do the things and I look at me and I go to therapy and I look at myself and my anxious behavior. I try and pick apart him trying to figure out a is this is am I in a narcissistic situation like, is this you know, and I kind of like distill that it wasn’t which was good. I kind of ruled out that he didn’t have any mood disorders or anything like that. He is a slightly neurodivergent or both have like tinges of ADHD I have a diagnosis of ADHD. So yeah, me too. So it’s like, I have some workarounds. But you know, the things changes, you know, as you know, and with a kid, it’s like, oh, but yeah, I spent a lot of time being pretty sorry for myself and feeling like the victim, and then, you know, having to re empower myself and feel better about myself and surround myself with people that understood. So the community was super helpful, because I wasn’t killing the resources that were around me as far as friendships with constant, like conversation about him. Yeah. So the battle battle buddy aspect of this program was super helpful. And, you know, I met some friends. And I was able to utilize that resource. And that was super helpful. And then, I guess what, like, you know, working this program in the sense of, like, keeping with the battle buddies keeping, it was like an exercise in self control. Like, I have to wait until I have the ability to talk about things clearly and or articulate, like, what it is that I need from this community, because a I might not get a response, or be, you know, like, Is this necessary, and like, I have to wait until x time to think about it. So it’s like, I can’t like ruminate as much. So it was like, sort of that was like, very integral to like, creating sort of a self control. modality. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Seiter 11:58I mean, you’re, you’re, I’m assuming you’re doing the Trinity work. And you mentioned earlier that you that was something you had started before, maybe the false start happened. Lee 12:10Yeah, I got a personal trainer, got new therapists started therapy right. Now, some career goals, they switched. You know, I started interviewing for different careers Chris Seiter 12:20like so. I mean, like, theoretically, you’re doing everything you’re supposed to be doing during this no contact period. You mentioned you were doing like a 45. Day one. Did you actually make it all the way through the 45? days? Yes. Okay. Now we get to the fun part. Yeah. Phase, Lee 12:39I had gone through professional coaching through your group, gotcha. I had created. I was kind of on the fence. I’m like, do I want to do this? I don’t know. Um, so I talked to the coach. And I’m like, Okay, I got a call from a place that we had gone to like to get IVs. And apparently, he had forgotten that it was on AutoPay. And I had like, a couple months of membership, or three months or whatever membership left. And they call to remind me and saying that, you know, he had let’s just, you know, calm David. So it’s like David had left you. Three months of IV membership, he doesn’t want you to pay it back, if you you know, but he has cancelled it, and so on and so forth. And so I kind of utilize that is like, Thank you for the IVs I was hoping that at one point, we could talk because I had really broken and that was one of the things I talked about in coaching is I had really broken and, like his trust in me by going to his place of work by nagging by, like those things kind of would make anybody feel unsafe. You know? Yeah. Chris Seiter 14:01I mean, it also builds, this is how she’ll react from now on, like, that’s the perception he’s gonna have. So that’s, like, the headwind you’re going to be facing when you try to, and as you’re correctly, assuming, he’s a little wary at first. Lee 14:19So then he said, Well, why would we need to have contact? And I said, Okay, well, we and this was, you know, something I came back to the group with, and I had gotten a response from the coach, saying, well say that you had had a relationship where you relied on each other for a while, but you know, you respect his point of view. And you’ll give him some time to think about it. So I use that we and I left it alone for two weeks. And then I went in with the exact like, texting phase model. Yeah, you know, like Question The homes or distress sort of thing, right? And the first one was about so he sent in, like, he’s a weightlifting enthusiast and are a power lifter. So it was like, hey, I need help about pre workout. And it was like a slew of information. Chris Seiter 15:20Okay, so you hit his interest, right on the mark. Too much, maybe. Lee 15:27I was like, wait a minute, like it’s positive response. And like, I get like, 300 let you know. That’s a positive response. Like, are you doing tide theory? I’m like, Well, I just got a tidal wave. So I did create it. That’s hilarious. So, um, you know, then I had, you know, I tried to cut them off with like, something like, Oh, I’m doing this you know what I was I was inquiring about getting sailing lessons. And then the next time I had asked him about a weightlifting shoes. Well, that was that was just like intense. I mean, I got all the different fabrics and the different heel lifts and why you need this shoe for this thing and that and I was just like, Chris Seiter 16:22a really loves his weightlifting, right and a lot. Yeah, well, and Lee 16:26also, he just feels like, he’s done so much research like it. He’s like, the nice guy who’s like, Oh, I’ll help any disseminates information. But sometimes it can be a little overbearing, because that’s a wonder if Chris Seiter 16:38it’s also maybe like, he put so much work into the research. And like, I don’t want to hurt his feelings, but no one really cares. So it’s his way of like, saying, like, well, look how much research I put into it. I’m willing to put it out there. Lee 16:53Right now. It’s true. It’s like the weirdest thing, like, and I’m like, Okay, thank you, you know. And then Chris Seiter 17:04what’s amazing is that he initially gives you the cold shoulder on that first thing like what, like, we shouldn’t be talking and then you bam, you hit his interest. And it’s like, boom, like, just so message after message. And what Lee 17:17I didn’t know is that at this time, he had met somebody, and was kind of dating them. So I was like, like, just sort of Chris Seiter 17:29wonder if that lowered the barrier. Maybe like, well, I’ve already moved on to this new person. I don’t have to worry about a potential get back together with Lee. Lee 17:41That’s interesting. Yeah. So then, I just kept on that. And then it was he’s really into coffee. So it’s like coffee grinders. And it seems so benign, right. And like, was Chris Seiter 18:01there a question mark there, just like coffee grinders? Lee 18:05I was going to need, or I was like, Can I get your professional opinion or something like that? Yeah. And he was, and I’m like, well, it’s about coffee, David. So like, come on, in because he’s like, Well, I don’t know about professional. Yeah, you’re professional coffee drinker, I think and. And it was just like, here’s this do you want to do you want to like manual grinder? Do you want this grinder and it was just like, wow, like, again, and I was taking interest in the things that he had always been interested in. So it’s like, okay, it took me a little bit to kind of bridge into, li…

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Success Story: She Started Setting Boundaries He Started Coming Back Jul 29, 2023

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I had the pleasure of interviewing “So.” A member of our community who has just gotten her ex back, In the interview we talk about things like, The breakup that led up to the reconciliation. 0:01 Meet the woman who got back together with her ex. The dark times. The first Christmas apart from her boyfriend. The first serious boyfriend. The grieving period before moving forward. 3:32 Being kicked out of the house. The grieving period after the divorce. Crying, ice cream and watching movies. How long it took him to give it his all. How did you find out about the other woman? 7:22 He got back in contact in January this year. He wants to change relationship dynamics. Being kicked to the curb again. How to cope with the no contact situation. What were you doing during the no contact? 11:35 No contact, meetup groups, gym, therapy and therapy. End date for no contact. Breaking the no-contact rule three or four times. Building up a relationship. How to deal with the fear of rejection. 16:00 Mentally and emotionally affected by the cycle. Holding boundaries for yourself. Cold turkey, no contact, no explanation. Fearful avoidance, anxious and avoidant responses. What happened with the other woman? 19:27 What happened with the other woman. How his ex is handling his grief. Holding boundaries and not ignoring calls and texts. No contact for 45 days. Setting the boundary on no contact. 23:22 Breaking up with her boyfriend. No contact, no contact and no contact. Coming out of his shell and asking for her back. Being upfront and honest. Holding boundaries and setting boundaries. 28:54 Hedging his bets with probing questions. Lying on the hook for a bit. The fear of loss aspect worked on him. The difference between this and the previous go-around. Advice on how to get help. 32:16 Getting professional help to make the relationship stronger. Taking responsibility for the relationship. The most important tactics that got her to success. The no contact rule. Interview Transcript: Chris Seiter 00:01This meeting is being recorded. All right, today, we have a very amazing success story we have. So who has been kind enough to come on here and basically give us the rundown of her entire situation on how her and her ex have gotten back together. So thank you so much for coming in doing this. Yeah, cause so is this is this pretty recent? Like I noticed, like a day ago, you posted in the community? Like, yeah, I got back. He wants to like go seek professional help to kind of work through things. So is this like, are you still riding high? A little bit on on it? So 00:44Yeah, no, but yeah, it was. Honestly, very unexpected. And you’re literally right, a day ago, pretty well. So. Yeah. Chris Seiter 00:55Okay. So I mean, why don’t we go back to the dark times? Can you can you kind of take us through the play by play of the breakup and how that went down? And everything that kind of led up to this point? So 01:11Yeah, so it was Oh, my God, like, honestly, reality TV drama, almost the Ricoh it was, it was a border poll, a lot of things. A lot of it was just arguments, not even getting a relationship. It got to a point where my partner was unemployed for a couple of weeks. And obviously, finances not a great topic for you know, potentially relationships that are breaking down, you got into that topic. And it was just explosive, and just kind of walked away from that. And that was back October 2022. So that was quite a while ago. That was all going on. So yeah, that did mean that like for majority, I think of like Christmas time and everything. It was just first Christmas without him, which was very weird. But Chris Seiter 02:04How long had you been together before that point? So 02:06Three and a half years. Chris Seiter 02:10Okay, so And how old? Are you? So 02:14So I’m 2222. Chris Seiter 02:15So, like, was he like your first serious boyfriend? Yes, yes. So so that first Christmas apart must have been really, really difficult. So 02:29Yeah, yeah. I mean, I just yeah, it was not a great point. I mean, luckily, obviously, you have family around me. So that was pretty nice. But yeah, it just felt so weird. Cuz another factor was our family’s live, like five minutes away, driving time. So it was just kind of knowing the fact that he was so close five, but obviously, you know, we’re not in contact. And that’s the breakups happen. So it’s this kind of single family thing. Chris Seiter 02:59Yeah. So he initiates the breakup. What does he actually say during that conversation? How does he do it? So 03:08Um, yeah, so that was very spur of the moment. It was very much we got into an argument about finances and how it’s not marrying up. And it got to a point where he literally talked me out of the house, because we were living together and he was just like, pack of things and go, and I was like, Oh, Chris Seiter 03:28right. Oh, man. So 03:31I mean, obviously a lot more upset. I was, yeah, it’s kind of tearing up. I was like, Okay, I got my sister’s picked me up and just Chris Seiter 03:38Batman. So alright, so you guys have this argument about finances, which obviously, is such a huge stress for not just, you know, like a young couple, but even like married couples, and you know, that, that, that almost always seems to be a huge, huge point of contention. So anyways, you’re kicked out of the house, your sister picks you up? What happens next? Do you immediately start thinking like I want to back or is it more of just a grieving period before you get there? So 04:10Um, so for that, yeah, for me, it was a grieving period because it was so another thing, it was my first kind of proper relationship as well. So it was kind of understanding where my headspace was that and kind of experiencing actually kind of always being single for like, the first time in quite quite a while. But yeah, my headspace was definitely just kind of like just keep away focus on yourself. Focus on friends and family and just Yeah, hold your head above the water as best you can. Chris Seiter 04:44I imagine that must have been really difficult, though. To do that. Did you have any like big setbacks? So 04:51Um, yeah. So I mean, I wasn’t. I think the setback for me was that the house you were in was actually over. by his dad. So it meant I had to be back with my parents, like, time. That was kind of a setback conspicious obviously, not particularly one thing that I think it’s also just, for me, it was just kind of privacy in the sense of like, I want to grieve. But obviously, you know, parents as much as I love them, they kind of want to pry. So your cadence is like I am, but I just need this time to grieve myself and just get out of my system. Yeah, there was a lot of days of like crying and like Ben and Jerry’s ice cream watching movies. Chris Seiter 05:36All right, we did the whole Netflix thing. So what point do you I’m assuming? So you mentioned to me off off air that you you listen to the podcast? Is that was that like, your entrance into our community in our space? Or was it mostly just like a Google search that that led you? So 06:03It was a bit of both. It was a bit like I was listening to the podcast, and also some days by you do I do the whole like, Oh, I really wouldn’t back and kind of Google search it. But I think in both those times, I was trying to be as hard as it was, I was trying to be kind of logical and say like, just take a step back, see how you’re feeling. And if you want to do this, do this, but do it for yourself. Not for like anything else, do it? Because you’re nervous, right? And that’s something you really want. And I listen to the podcast really helped with that kind of understanding my mindset and kind of initially being like, Yeah, I do want this. And I think it’s something that we could work through. Kind of Chris Seiter 06:51so so basically, you’re listening to the podcast every once in a while you’re kind of doing the Google search thing. Do you have any idea of like how long that went on? Before you were like, Okay, I actually want to give this my all. So 07:06So there, I was kind of initially searching, I probably should preface this by saying this was a very long process. So in terms of Christmas time, December, when all of that was happening. It was back in January this year that he got back in contact, and was like, Hey, let’s have a relationship again. And I was like, at this point, I think I’d signed up to the course I looked through kind of a few of the classes by hopefully, like gone right into it. So I was, at that point, I probably I probably should have been like, let’s just, like, slow it. But I was just like, Yeah, I’m ready. Let’s go on in. And Chris Seiter 07:53oh, my God, this is like, wow, this was easy. I didn’t have to do anything. He comes back. And I’m assuming it does not end well. So 08:00No, no, no. So it was quite a weird one. It was He wants you to change the relationship dynamics. We know from relationship. The person that he was kind of in this other relationship with didn’t want to know for relationship. I made that very clear. And that is some awkward times where essentially, he definitely for her. Chris Seiter 08:27Oh, did you find this after the fact? Did you find this out after the fact? So 08:33Yeah, so it was it was a weird one where I have a kind of inclination. And yeah, he just just outright he said to me, Oh, I’m leaving you for her. And I was like, wow, Chris Seiter 08:48my gosh, okay, so So let me get this straight. He breaks up with you in before Christmas, last year. You’re grieving. You’re kind of like in and out of the podcast. At some point, you sign up for the program, like right after you sign up for the program, boom, like a bolt from the blue. He comes out and he’s like, Hey, let’s get back together. And you think like, oh, yeah, absolutely. But then he drops another bombshell which is saying like, hey, I want an open relationship. And then you’re like, No, I do not want an open relationship. And then he leaves you for some other girl who is willing to do an open relationship. Yeah. Yeah, I literally cannot say I’ve ever interviewed anyone with that situation before. Your first. So 09:37It was weird. I mean, I met the other person and we like kind of hang out this was for it was started to be a thing. And there was a whole phase where my ex boyfriend at a point was just like, yeah, that’s all kind of get involved in those sorts of things together. Which Oh, don’t don’t ever do this. But I was restarted to kind of casual thing. And it just ended very badly. And the other person made it very clear that they just wanted my ex boyfriend for themselves. And I was just like, well, that’s not how relationships work. Got it. And it was the whole thing of just. Chris Seiter 10:24So there’s this other, there’s this other woman involved. Yeah. And he basically leaves you for her. Now, obviously, you’re kind of doubly you know, you’ve been kicked to the curb one time now you’ve been literally kicked to the curb again, but he’s also with this other woman. How do you cope with that? So 10:49Um, I, this is where I just I use the whole no contact thing I just witnessed like, right? I’m, I’m not why didn’t say this. But in my head, I was just like, I’m not going anywhere near you. And I’m not going anywhere near you. Yeah, I guess. And that was it was another car for here. It was a lot of things. When that whole dynamic started. And it was going well. I made the decision to say I don’t want it with my parents. But I obviously I can’t live with you. So how about we live in the cities that kind of together, and I live, still do 20 minutes away in a different house. And a week after it helped me move in was when he drops the bomb just out of? I’m leaving it for this other woman. So which was Chris Seiter 11:37like helping you financially to get that place? So 11:41No, no, it was literally just helping me move my furniture, things up. So Chris Seiter 11:48you’re independent enough to where you’re not having to rely money wise on him. But obviously, now you’re devastated because you just moved to be near him. And now he’s kicked you to the curb again. Okay, so obviously you do no contact, you’re like, I’m not going near you. I’m not going near you. What are you doing during that no contact to kind of help cope. So 12:15Oh, um, so I know myself very busy. I signed up to all these meetup groups. It’s a thing we have, I’m not sure if it’s in the States. It’s a UK kind of app where you can go to local groups that have a similar interest. So I was going to like kind of meeting up with people who have like minded interests, like Dungeon and Dragons, or just like meeting restaurants. I started going to the gym, I started therapy. And just trying to do all the things that keep you busy. I’m just focusing on my career at the time. And just getting out of my mind. Chris Seiter 12:51Yeah, so, so. So you did the No Contact? Did you ever have like an end date? Like, you know, usually we have like those three timeframes. 2130 45 Did you ever have like a specific end date on how long the no contact was gonna last? So 13:04Yes. See, this is where I tend to look like a very bad student. And I wasn’t very bad student at that point. Okay. Chris Seiter 13:14In my experience, most students that I’ve coached are not good stuff. It’s, they don’t, they don’t stick to the no contact. So good. But anyways, go ahead. So 13:23So it was an going back to the fax that it was I think, end of March, but he said I’m going live the other one. I did that no contacts about three to four times last thing about 30 days. Chris Seiter 13:41Okay. Last 30 days. Sorry. Did you actually last 30 days you did it like three or four times? So it’d be 30 days reach out? That didn’t work. 30 days reach out? Oh, that didn’t work like that. So 13:57There was a specific reason why it’s time that it never works. And I had to restart the no contacts. Okay, which was, you see, Chris Seiter 14:11I’m getting worried. So 14:13I did the whole thing which you say you should have which you really, really should earn, actually at all. And so I start with my axe. Chris Seiter 14:22Like each of those times. Yeah. Well, hey, you got it. This is okay. All right. So it was very, So 14:31um, I think this was also the time where I just started therapy. I was working through some things and I think mentally I was just kind of I was listening to classes, but obviously not fully taking it on being like, no, it’s fine. So good. And then being like, oh, no, no, it’s really not. Chris Seiter 14:54Okay, so you’ve broken the no contact, so it’d be 30 days. And then you would reach out, was there was it like an immediate like reach out, then you would sleep together? And then you’d be like, Oh, no, I need to go back into no contact or was there like a little bit of a grace period where there was like some attraction being built? So 15:13There was actually so I think this is the second or third time that I think it’s the third time where he was actually like, oh, that’s like, that’s our relationship again. And I was like, we’re okay. Potentially. Why don’t we? Okay, let’s like, text, let’s, let’s do it that way. Let’s take it take it slow. And we started off that with the whole kind of like texting phone calls going on dates, kind of building up like a value ladder or something. I’m sorry, I’m getting totally wrong. Yeah. And two weeks afterwards, he was just like, actually, no, no, I don’t want to be in a relationship. Chris Seiter 16:00So what does that do to you? Because it’s like, you’re getting this hope. And then it’s being pulled out from under you? Like, How are you coping with that? Like, mentally I feel like that has to be difficult because like, you sleep with them, you feel like you have this hope. It feels like oh, hey, I got it back again. He wants to try the relationship. And then boom, third time now he’s saying like, Ah, no, I’m not feeling not feeling that anymore. S…

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Talking To A Psychologist About Your Exes Body Language Jul 16, 2023

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Today I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. John Garrison. A clinical psychologist and body language expert who runs the YouTube channel Dr. G explains. In our interview we discuss, How do you know when someone’s behavior is Ocd? What it means to be caught in the honeymoon period. Understanding body language at its core. How to identify if someone is lying The body language of someone in love with you. How you decipher the body language of aggressive people How can you tell if someone is being serious Understanding narcissistic traits and narcissistic personality disorder. Interview Transcript Chris Seiter 00:11so today we’re gonna be talking to Dr. Garrison, who has an MBA and Doctorate in clinical psychology is considered a body language expert and specializes in took specialized training and counterterrorism. His work has been featured in numerous media outlets, including Business Insider, Forbes, vice, Huffington Post, Yahoo News, real, some real simple and fatherly. I mean, I was just sort of like stumbling over myself with how how often you’ve been featured places. Thank you so much for coming. Dr. G 00:40I’m super happy to be here. Chris Seiter 00:42So we were talking a little bit before we actually started recording a little bit about how you have a background in diagnosing clinical disorders. Like, I guess, specifically, what I think is interesting to me here is the narcissistic personality disorder. And little bit of the, let’s just talk about the narcissistic personality disorder first, because I have noticed a lot of people in our community will say, Oh, my ex is narcissistic, but I’m not actually convinced to that. I think they just have some narcissistic traits not sure. Can you maybe speak to that a little Dr. G 01:16bit? Sure. So to make sense of that, I’m going to try to explain what personality disorders are because personality disorders are a little bit different than mental illness. And the way we differentiate that is something like depression, anxiety. The more common disorders that we hear about those are considered mental illness. A personality disorder is a dysfunction of the personality, they’re missing parts of their personality, that allow them to be a whole person to learn from interpersonal interaction, to get better to have a full satisfying life. So people that are missing these parts, they’ll have one part that is very dysfunctional, and it dominates their whole personality. So for a narcissist, for example, for someone with narcissistic personality disorder, grandiosity dominates their entire personality, they are genuinely pathologically grandiose. Historically, people have said, now it’s low self esteem being masked, it’s like no, they have pathologically high self esteem. They genuinely believe if someone is an actual narcissist, they genuinely believe they are better than other people, and other people are there to serve them in a very real way. So when we throw around the term narcissist, I think that can be used as a late term, it can be used casually, but oftentimes, it doesn’t actually mean narcissistic personality. Chris Seiter 02:23Yeah, I mean, we still, you know, obviously, we’re dealing with a lot of people who are heartbroken. So you know, there’s a lot of blame going on the other side they’ve been broken up with. And sometimes when I’ll talk about narcissists, I’ll talk about how they almost have like a supply Rolodex, where they’re just going from person to person getting their supply, and then moving on to the next person and kind of just they always have like someone for the different areas of their life that they need their, quote unquote, supply for, but I think people will sometimes take it too far and don’t under understand or differentiate that aspect of it. Dr. G 02:58Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of people and I think fairly so will describe someone as a narcissist, just because they seem focused on themselves. They don’t have good empathy. They’re not caring about their partner or former partner’s feelings. So I get why people use that term. I use it sometimes to describe somebody even if they don’t literally have narcissistic personality. So, you know, I think it’s pretty common that we use that term and I get why people use it. Chris Seiter 03:20Yeah, Yeah, same. So the other really interesting thing, or at least one of the things I wanted to ask you about is we talk a lot about attachment styles when we’re trying to diagnose or at least like take educated guesses on like, Hey, this is why we think this x is acting this way. And after polling our community most of our community believes that their ex has an avoidant attachment style, but there’s a there’s I think it was like 60% believe that their ex has an avoidant attachment style and then around like 25% believe that their ex has a fearful avoidant attachment style. But everything that I’ve read about fearful avoidance and understand about fearful avoidance, this is incredibly rare. And sometimes it can be mis classified as multiple personality disorder. Kind of just curious want to get your take or thoughts on that. Dr. G 04:06So when we talk about and I’m not a specialist in attachment theory, but I’m familiar with it. So you know, if we may discuss this a little bit more as we go with when you think about avoidant, avoidant is anxiety really, because anxiety is built around the concept of avoidance, we can’t be anxious and not avoid it just comes with the territory. So someone like a narcissist, they’re not anxious. So if we see someone that we think of as being a narcissist, and that we think that there have avoidant attachment, that’s actually I mean, it’s possible but that’s typically not what we would associate with that. Same with, when we think of the fearful avoidant, there’s a lot of people that think of that as being closer to borderline personality disorder, which is an unstable personality, like that’s the characteristic of borderline personality, this most prevalent is the instability because they struggle being proportional and stable. That’s the challenge there. So actually, though, Even though people oftentimes think of that, because I’ve discussed this with people, borderline personality actually, if that’s Take this too far sideways is actually more of the preoccupied anxious, preoccupied style of attachment because they get obsessive and preoccupied with things. 05:15Okay, so can you maybe even like talk a little bit more about that or dig a little bit deeper for me about that. That’s interesting, because most of the people that we’ve polled in our community, not only they believe that their ex is avoidant, but they believe that they’re, they’re anxious and preoccupied. Anxious. So like, can you maybe even just talk a bit about that multiple personality disorder aspect from the anxious perspective? And like how that stir of it, I guess, Dr. G 05:40definitely. Okay. So. So, when you’re talking about multiple personality, are you talking about somebody who is kind of like Jekyll and Hyde, who was like, nice, one minute, and me the next or someone who literally has multiple personalities, just to be super clear on the fact. Chris Seiter 05:53Okay, so I want to dive into both. But I will say this that most of the time, what our clients would be really interested in is understanding whether X X Hot one moment cold the next moment, got it. So I guess dive into both. Dr. G 06:07Okay, so. So I’ll talk about the diagnostic piece first, because this is what I’m sure is a little bit less relevant to your listeners. But for someone who has multiple personalities, we call it dissociative identity. It’s where they literally phase between different personalities that don’t recognize each other. I mean, it’s a really serious diagnosis and a very rare with so probably not a lot of Chris Seiter 06:28people. Have you ever met someone with multiple personality disorder? One that Dr. G 06:32claims to have it so whether or not I’ve ever met an authentic person with it? I can’t say I’ve, I’ve, I’ve evaluated one person that claims to be experiencing that. But I couldn’t even really fully get clarity on whether or not that was legitimate. So it’s pretty rare. It really is. But but as far as, like someone who is hot, one minute cold the next. So just to get some clarity from you, would it be like that? One minute, they’re, they’re caring and close? And then one minute, they’re angry and aloof? I mean, is that sort of what you’re talking about? Chris Seiter 07:10Yeah, usually it’s, you know, they’re doing something that makes the client believe, Oh, they’re interested in coming back. And then, and then, I mean, I certainly have my own thoughts about like, why this is happening. But I’m just curious, and I don’t want to like, infect your your thinking at all. But basically, they’re doing something that makes the client believe like, Oh, they’re interested in coming back, and then all of a sudden, they disappear, or they even just lash out and grow angry. Dr. G 07:37So one of the things that can make somebody do that? Well, it’s kind of okay, so here’s where I’m struggling with this. Because I’m thinking about this, as we’re talking, I see a lot of couples, and there’s always there’s so many reasons for people’s behaviors. But one of the reasons that we see when someone is hot and cold like that, it can be because they’re manipulative, and because they want to have control. So they want to maybe throw some strings out and lead people on. For some people, it’s because they are anxious, and they just don’t know what to do. So it really depends so much person to person, but there’s there really is a wide variety of, of behaviors that can explain what we’re talking about. Chris Seiter 08:14Yeah, I think I think the context here would be going through a breakup. Okay. So the way I’ve always kind of tried to explain it to people, and maybe you would just sort of correct me if I’m wrong. Sure. I’ve always tried to explain to people that oftentimes, indeed, your ex is avoidant like, you think that it would make sense that they have this period where they’re kind of grown nostalgic, especially if they feel like you’ve moved on, or there’s enough space or whatever, that they, they grow nostalgic, they kind of paint you as the Fantomex, they, they start to gravitate back towards you. And then when they realize, Oh, someone’s here to take my independence again, they kind of bail and they freak out. And that anxious aspect kind of comes up. That’s why I’ve been interpreting it. Dr. G 09:00Okay, that makes a lot of sense to me, because I work with a lot of men who deal with this very thing, which is, they will, I mean, I’ve worked with couples trying to get married, where the guy would just couldn’t do it. I mean, I Chris Seiter 09:13swear to God, that’s like, 90% of our of our weapon. Okay. Dr. G 09:17So, so, you know, and I’ve seen in very real ways, where and I’ve actually helped people work through this. So I’ve been in the trenches, and this can take a lot longer than you might think. Or maybe you know exactly how long Yeah, so, so I’ll have someone come in. And they have these unreasonable fears about, well, what if this happens in the relationship and what if that happens, so then they were like, Okay, well, now I feel good about the idea of being together so yeah, so they come closer, they go, alright, we can do this. And then the other person is like, Hey, you’re coming back and then they go, hey, you know what, maybe I can’t do this, you know, maybe things are gonna get terrible and they run away. Okay, now we’re on the same page. Now I get what you’re talking about. And that is now this is not universally true. But there can be a form of OCD actually, that’s related to this, this can be an obsessive compulsive disorder process. And so what happens is, is that it gets to be the cycle where there are different neural pathways in the brain, ADHD, OCD, these other multiple disorders that overlap this pathway, but they have to do with being obsessive. And so some people call it our OCD like relationship OCD. Some people call it just call it OCD, because it’s the same thing. Our OCD is not technically a diagnosis, but if it’s relationship focused, it helps people, you know, Google it, or talk about it or whatever. But it’s still the same thing. But in essence, it is, you know, when someone’s obsessive compulsive, they have obsessive thoughts, and then they engage in compulsions to relieve those obsessions. So in other words, if someone’s obsession is, like, if I get to be with somebody, and I commit to them forever, if their obsessive thoughts, then oh, God, I’m going to lose my independence, then the compulsion is to withdraw or to pull away. And so and then they try to get close again. So then they get stuck in this loop. So it really can be and this is not universally true, but it can be a form of obsessive compulsive disorder, it really can. Chris Seiter 11:09Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me, because one of the things I talked about is sort of the lifecycle of the cycle that a lot of exes we’ve observed are caught in there, which is they really liked this honeymoon period, because there’s no threat of a deeper commitment. But when that deeper commitment starts to be expected, they start to grow scared. And to your point. I think it’s almost like, this is just my opinion. But I think it’s almost like they’ve always learned to cope with this problem this specific way. And so it’s like this behavior that’s ingrained in them, maybe even from childhood. And so and so they just, they just, like, get caught in this cycle, where they’re just doing this from relationship to relationship and jumping from, from relationship to relationship, and can be really difficult for people too. And, you know, our clients are very particularly anxious. So they’re natural problem solvers. They want to get in there and just fix everything, which is the wrong thing to do sometimes, because that just exacerbates the problem. Dr. G 12:09Right? It’s the solution is not always obvious. And that’s the problem is that it’s like, if if the solution was logical, then yeah, your clients would probably be doing the right thing. The solution is not always the logic that the logic doesn’t always apply the way you think. So you go, yeah, this is what I should do to approach somebody who is running away or someone who’s anxious in this situation. And but then it’s not working. You go, Okay, I now I really don’t know what to do. So it’s very confusing, very, very confusing to know what to do. Chris Seiter 12:36So someone who’s in that specific situation, if they’re sitting down and have paid for like a session with you what what I’m just curious, like, what advice and by no means if it’s completely different from what I said, go for it. Because I’m I want to learn? Dr. G 12:50Sure, sure. So what would I so just to work through this example? So in other words, if it’s a couple that comes to me, and they say, this is the issue we’re having, like, Chris Seiter 12:59yeah, so the the woman comes to you, and she’s saying, um, you know, I’m trying to get him to commit, he won’t move in with me. Every time we talked about, he just sort of disappears or even threatens to break up with me, what do you typically advise to someone in that situation? Dr. G 13:16So the first is to figure out and presuming that I’m sure there have been plenty of discussions about this, because oftentimes, these things have been talked to death through through the couple already. But to find out, what’s the motivation behind that, is it because he’s, is it anxiety? Is it because he’s controlling? Is it because he’s angry? I mean, that’s the first step is to know okay, what’s motivating that behavior? If it is that someone’s anxious, then we got to figure out what life experiences are they’re basing this on? What is it that they’re afraid of losing, right…

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Success Story: How One Woman Rebuilt Herself And Got Her Ex Back Jun 30, 2023

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Today I have an amazing success story of one of our clients who rebuilt herself and as a result got her ex back. Meet Ashley! Her situation essentially ran the gamut on “ex back scenarios.” I mean, just listen to this: She was high school sweethearts with her ex She lived together with him The bought an entire restaurant together He blocked her after the breakup That’s essentially half of the most difficult situations all wrapped up into one. Here’s how she got him back. What Are Your Chances of Getting Your Ex Boyfriend Back? Take the quiz Interview Transcript: Chris Seiter 00:02Okay, so today we have a another success story interview. Today we’re gonna be talking to Ashley. And the interesting thing about Ashley is I know probably as much about her situation is you listening to this? So this is gonna be an awesome interview. But thank you so much for doing this actually. Ashley 00:21Yeah, of course. Chris Seiter 00:23So like, why don’t you just sort of take us back to the beginning and tell us like a little bit about your relationship and your breakup? And what happened after that? Ashley 00:32Yeah, so um, we were together for 206 years at the time that we broke up. So we were together for quite some time, literally, since end of high school senior year we’ve been together. And we’re kind of Chris Seiter 00:49going so you’re like, high school sweethearts? Yes. Oh, that’s awesome. Okay, sorry. 00:58No, it’s okay. And we are going through a transition in our life to where we, we bought a restaurant at a time, we both pretty much quit our jobs to do that, we had to move at the same time. It was also the time when the market was going crazy. So while we were trying to find a place near the restaurant, we were staying with his family. And I’ve always been on my own, so kind of been with, like, confined like that. I guess it just, I didn’t realize I would take a toll on me as well as our relationship. But once that started happening with the stress of the restaurant stress of being a whole new environment just being so when I felt like constricted, it puts so much tension on our relationship, and just ourselves as individuals. And it just kind of spiraled out for the both of us. And for his way of coping things as he’s from what I read from your program is a distance. avoidant or Chris Seiter 02:14dismissive. Yeah. But, you know, I could see, you know, the distant, dismissive, you know, same depth, right? Ashley 02:25Yes. For me, I was an anxious attachment. So, when there was conflict, I would be the one that was like, Okay, let’s, let’s figure this out. Let’s figure this out. And then my nerves will get high. Meanwhile, he would just shut down and be like, No, I don’t want to talk. And he would go days without talking. Meanwhile, I’m like, suffering in silence. Yeah. So I knew that that wasn’t good. Dynamic, ended up, blowing up. And I went and stay with some family out like two hours away from where we were, and for the weekend, and when, during that time, I was staying with them. He pretty much was like, come get your things. I’m gonna I’m gonna leave them on the side of the road. Like, I want to, I want you out. Like, now, and I, at that time, and these were all text messages. So I, I couldn’t even fathom just reading them. So I had my, my family. I was like you, you read them? And you tell me if I need to, like, do anything. And they were pretty much were like, yeah, so we got to figure something out. So I went and I picked up all my belongings, and I Chris Seiter 03:47like he literally kicked you to the curb. Like even your belongings. Yeah, everything. Well, yeah. Okay. Ashley 03:54So, yeah, so it was it was not, oh, it was not good. I like, and at that time, I didn’t have a place to go. So I was bouncing. Back from my family. I was two hours away and staying in my brother’s place. And by this this same time, like we had already given the keys back for the restaurant, because it was just, there was too much drama with that. And I was reminded, Chris Seiter 04:22do you mind if I ask you a question about that? So you guys, yeah. Did you sell this restaurant back? Or like, how did that dynamic work exactly with buying this restaurant? Yeah, Ashley 04:31we pretty much we were like in a contract before because it was already in a lease with the previous owner. And so we were in a contract with her. And at the end of that lease term, we were going to pay the remaining off of the restaurant and resign everything into our names. So at that point, it was just conjoined ownership with the previous owner. Right was signed as like a silent partner. But she wasn’t very silent. So we were like, okay, they’d never open. She wouldn’t let us. Yeah, she wouldn’t let us hire people or anything like that. And when we walked in there, it was just me my other half, and then we had one, one server. So we had a lot to build up on. Chris Seiter 05:24But and so obviously, that creates a very stressful environment. Ashley 05:29Yeah, especially when he has one way of thinking, I have one way of thinking when it comes to business. So very two different entities. But it was just too much. And then the landlord on top of it was just seeing too much. So we’re like, you know what, here’s the keys. Good luck, have fun. So I decided I was going to take some time away from work and go back to school full time, because I took time away off from school, to run the restaurant. And so I didn’t have a job at the time that I was kicked out, I also didn’t have a place to stay. So I had to, like rebuild everything. Which helps me in the time of not communicating, not reaching out, it was really hard to not reach out because I just kept questioning in my head like how, like this is it? This isn’t like him, like this isn’t his character? Why? I just, you know, I had so many unanswered questions. But I just kept religiously, just going through your podcasts and reading everything trying to keep my mind occupied. And then on top of that, I had to focus on school, I had to focus on finding a place and everything else. So that was kind of a little bit of a distraction. Yeah, but it was pretty strenuous. Chris Seiter 06:55So. So you’ve obviously kind of come into the orbit, you started learning about the No Contact Rule and the attachment styles, and you’re listening to podcasts and everything. So you’re, you’re kind of implementing what you’re, you know, the no contact at this point of the story, right? Ashley 07:11Yes, yes, I was actually implementing it prior to being kicked out. I did. I was reading things prior. So I had an idea, but I was also kind of being forced into it, because he wouldn’t talk to me, and we were under the same roof. So I did the best I could to not cross paths with him. While like I was staying in a completely different room. And whenever he would come home, I, I wouldn’t be seen I would be in my room. And when he left and as typically, you know, I would try my best to not cross paths. Now there was a point in time it was I was doing the no contact before I actually discovered your program, because I was just doing research of like, how can I get myself like, in a in a better spot with when, when there’s like kind of a breakup, essentially, it’s what it was at that time. And I heard the No Contact Rule. So it’s like, okay, you know what, let me just create this distance, because we’ve never really had that distance. And it was a fun day. I think like 16 the first time. Before I got before I left the house. We actually crossed paths in the gym. And he, like I’ve never said anything I didn’t even turn around to acknowledge him. I just kept going on walking into the gym, and I was doing my thing. I had a hair appointment later that afternoon. And shortly after that, he texted me saying, Hey, can we talk? And it took me a few hours respond, because I didn’t know if I wanted to respond yet. And he just he sent me like question mark. So I’m like, holy can’t keep ignoring him. Chris Seiter 09:04So you broke you broke down on day? 16? Ashley 09:08Yeah, yeah. So I broke down day 16. I said, Yeah, we can talk. So when I came home, we did talk and he was saying how he didn’t want me out of his life, things like that. But shortly after that, it’s all rolled out. And that’s when I started back on the no contact. And me being out of the house definitely made it so much easier to not be able to do that. He also had blocked me on social media. So it wasn’t, I couldn’t reach out to him. Well, it’s Chris Seiter 09:43interesting. You’re taking off so many boxes here. I have your high school sweethearts. You worked together. You live together. Now you’re telling me you were blocked. Yes. And you kind of you kind of got it seems like to me, you kind of got like minigames get back together. After the 60 days, he kind of asked for you back, but then that obviously didn’t last. Is that accurate? Ashley 10:06Yeah, it was not entirely. He was pretty much just saying that he needed to figure themselves out. But he knew that he didn’t want things to end maybe to just slowly, like get back into. Chris Seiter 10:21Oh, so he’s keeping you on the hook, essentially, then Ashley 10:24yeah, that’s exactly what that was. Yeah. Chris Seiter 10:27So okay, so you spiraled out of control. Now, you’re telling me that you’ve moved out? Yeah. Ashley 10:34And from that point, I just, I kind of just had in my mind that I needed especially with all the anxiety that I was struggling with, I knew even from prior to that, that I wanted to get rid of this anxiety there was, it was not how I was prior, I was like, this isn’t who I am, I need to change this. So taking that separation, I start focusing back on school, like I said, I was finding a place I did find a place and I got a job. And then I started working out a lot more I was I was having some some anxiety in the gym. So I just kind of forced myself with that. And I started just getting back into a routine of things independently. And I was I, at first for a little while. I wasn’t posting on social media. I was active on social, like, I would be scrolling through social media, but I didn’t post anything. I was kind of a what I consider like a go lurker. Yeah, okay. Yeah. And, like, I also wasn’t, I wasn’t searching like anybody’s knee, like, I wasn’t searching to see if he was if I was still unblocked, or, or if I still was blocked, or anything like that. I was just kind of scrolling, naturally. But I also tried to keep myself off social media in case like, because I did have someone whose family on social media. So I didn’t want to see anything in passing that would upset me. So I do my best to kind of stay off of it to not trigger myself. And then, what was it? One day I did go on, on social medias probably like, three weeks into my second, like my official no contest. And I went to go search a friend, and I noticed that his name had popped up in my search bar with his icon. And I was like, Oh, did he unblock me? And behold, he did unblock me. So I was like, Oh, interesting. I was like, what does that mean? But I kept my I kept my composure, I didn’t want to reach out to him or anything, and then just be blocked again. So I just kept and once I noticed, I did like, unintentionally notice that I was on black. I did start posting on social media. But I did it very rarely, I would post on a story. I wouldn’t post like a picture. I posted like a story of me at the gym, and things like that. But I also would, I didn’t really show my face too much. I would show just like my feet. Chris Seiter 13:21I also had our feet at the gym. Yeah, Ashley 13:23like my feet at the gym. I had friends I would post about fun their stories, because I knew that they would be friends. And well, they actually were like, Oh, let me post a story of us. You know, he’ll see it. And I was like, Alright, let’s do it. So and he would see that I’m be I’m out with like friends and like guys that are with us. And Chris Seiter 13:48you get that jealousy going a little bit. Ashley 13:51Yeah, he wasn’t he wasn’t too fond of that. But, but yeah, I just started, I started just focusing on myself. After about like two weeks, I wasn’t too focused on the relationship. There was some times like we had our cellphone plan together, we had our insurance plan together, like there were several things that we still had to figure out. But I wasn’t focused on that. I was like, it’ll, you know, when that time comes, we’ll come. And then it came down to the round the 45 day mark, and he messaged me asking about the phone plan. He said, and well, prior to that, actually, we backtrack. I got a job with a cellular company. And there was like a strenuous training that we had to do for like, several weeks. So that was also kept me pretty occupied. And when we graduated from that training, we all took a class photo essentially. And I posted that so that was like my first thing in a while that I posted and cuz I thought that was pretty like, as big as he could Yeah, Chris Seiter 15:04like that. That’s a base most. Ashley 15:08Yeah. So I posted that and then I went back to being a ghost on social media. And around that 45 Day marquee messaged me asking about the proper cellphone plan because he knew that I was working for a different cellular company. And I was like I said something along well, first, I did posts on on the group asking for advice, like, what do I say? And realize like, Oh, you gotta you gotta keep at it. And like, Oh, but I am kind of around that point. Chris Seiter 15:44Yeah. 45 days. Yeah, yeah, you take it. Ashley 15:47Yeah. So. And so I did wait a little while to respond. I think I waited maybe like, a couple hours. And then I said, I’m not. I’m not too worried about it. At the moment. We can figure it out later. And then I did. I meant I mentioned to him saying, I didn’t ask him I did say, I would like to maybe sit down for dinner. And and, you know, talk about some things whenever you have creatively Chris Seiter 16:21worded it, you worded it very carefully. Ashley 16:26I wasn’t like asking him right then and there. He said, I would like that. And he asked me, how about that night? Like, later on that evening? And I was quick. Okay. So, yeah, we Chris Seiter 16:44got yourself like an instant date? Ashley 16:47Yes. Yeah. And so we sat, we sat down for several hours talking at dinner. And we talked about everything like because I never was able to say, like, my side of the story of, of when things spiraled out. And I know, like he had family as well, that were kind of interfering in, you know, putting words into his ear of what their perception of everything was, and without my my story of anything, so I was he we didn’t even get into that. At first, I was just saying, how are you? Like, how’s everything going? His brother was off at boot camp at the time. So it’s asking, and he recently graduated. So I was asking how his brother was. And then he was the one that actually initiated saying, like, you know, I talked about this. So I just listened to what he had to say. And I just continued, I would just nodded, I didn’t intervene, which was hard, because there’s some things I just wanted to like, interject, but I didn’t want to cut them off. And so I just let him talk, and then everything out. And then afterwards, after he said, everything he needs, say, I said, Well, let me you know, say my piece. And so I did. And he even said, once I said everything that I needed to say it was kind of like a light bulb, light bulb. That kind of went off for him to where he was able to switch his perspective. And realize that it wasn’t entirely like, my fault those how things went about. And not saying that, like I, you know, I wasn’t at fault for anything. So, but I definitely like especially being like kicked out and things like that, you know, there’s lots things that I know I was not at fault for. So having that, that that piece, you know, but we ended up ju…

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**Reasons Why Walking Away Is So Powerful** Jun 13, 2023
Show notes

This is a complete breakdown of the major reasons why walking away is so powerful.

In all, my team and I have found seven distinct reasons that we’d like to talk about today,

Allows You To Take Them Off The Pedestal

The No Contact Triad

Success Stories Consistently Cite That “Outgrowing An Ex Is Key”

Gives The Avoidant A Chance For Nostalgic Reverie To Kick In

You Are Setting A Firm Boundary

You Finally Have Space To Heal

You Are Removing Yourself From A Potentially Toxic Situation

There’s quite a bit to cover today so I’m just going to dive right in!

What Are Your Chances of Getting Your Ex Boyfriend Back?
Take the quiz
Reason #1: Allows You To Take Them Off The Pedestal

A few weeks ago my wife and I partnered up on writing an article about codependence and noticed that many of our clients exhibit codependent tendencies.

Basically their entire world revolves around their breakup, their partner, or their ex.

This creates what I call the pedestal effect.

Here’s a video I did on it,

So what we’re always trying to caution our clients against is the idea of putting your ex or partner on a pedestal.

You want them to be equal to you or perhaps a little bit below.

The goal is not to punch above your weight class, so to speak.

However, in some codependent relationships, things can shift. What might have started as you being above or equal to them on the pedestal can change.

Suddenly, you find yourself below them on the pedestal, and you have placed them above you on your own pedestal.

Essentially, by walking away, you can attempt to reclaim your position and knock them off that pedestal, so that you both stand on equal footing.

Reason #2: The No Contact Triad

One of the things we always recommend to our clients after a breakup is to implement a period of no contact, which can also be interpreted as walking away.

This can be scary for a lot of people, but what many don’t realize about the no contact rule is that it incorporates three specific strategies:

The theory of reactance

The informational gap theory

The Zeigarnik effect

Let’s do a quick breakdown of these.

Theory Of Reactance

The theory of reactance is based on the psychological principle that people don’t like it when their behavioral freedoms are taken away.

You can read more about it here.

When this happens, they are more likely to respond in a way that seeks to regain that freedom.

By initiating the no contact rule, you are not engaging in communication with your ex, effectively taking away their behavioral freedom to converse with you.

This can trigger some exes to take actions to regain that freedom, sometimes resulting in unexpected reactions.

Like this,

(Yes, this was a real screenshot from our community!)

However, it’s important to note that most exes don’t reach out at all during the no contact period.

Thus, reactance actually does seem to be the exception to the rule.

Information Gap

This suggests that what your ex doesn’t know about you creates curiosity and prompts them to seek answers.

They may not directly approach you, but instead, observe from afar or even enlist friends to gather information.

This has happened to me.

Back in 2008 when I was around 18 years old, I went through my very first breakup.

During that time, I used to never talk to my ex’s best friend. However, all of a sudden, the best friend started calling me and probing for information about “how I was doing.”

It turned out she was doing so on behalf of my ex, trying to gather details about how I was doing.

All because of the information gap.

Last but certainly not least is…

The Zeigarnik Effect

This states that people remember interrupted or incomplete tasks better than completed ones.

The desire for closure or to finish unfinished business can become a strong driving force. By denying your ex the opportunity to gain closure, the unfulfilled task of achieving closure can upset them and potentially increase their desire to come back.

Reason #3: Success Stories Consistently Cite Outgrowing Their Ex As Key

It’s often said in the breakup industry as a cliché that if you should

“Just move on from your ex.”

Do that and they’ll come back…

Simple, right?

Well….

Ironically, this cliché is often proven to be true.

One aspect I take pride in, particularly within our community, is making the interviews I’ve conducted with success stories readily available for listening.

During these interviews, my main goal is to uncover what strategies worked for them.

It doesn’t matter to me whether they used our program or not; I simply want to understand what led to their success.

Over time, I’ve noticed consistent themes and patterns that emerge.

The no contact rule is a major theme in every success story I’ve interviewed. While it’s possible that this emphasis on no contact is because of our influence in their lives, we can’t ignore the fact that implementing no contact and walking away appears to be crucial.

However, the larger theme that I’ve observed is that those who are able to successfully outgrow their ex reach a point where they question whether they even want their ex back.

It’s at this stage that things start to fall into place for them.

Outgrowing an ex becomes a pivotal factor in their journey.

Reason #4: It Gives The Avoidant Nostalgic Reverie A Chance To Kick In

I want to bring up coach Amor here because she raised an important question that her clients often ask her when she tells them to outgrow their exes.

The question was, what if walking away makes your ex give up on you or forget about you, or it makes them move on because they can sense you’re moving on?

**My response:** You actually want them to think you’re moving on.

Statistics and internal polls within our community indicate that many of our clients have avoidant exes.

Avoidant individuals typically don’t allow themselves to miss someone until that person becomes unavailable, once they’re out of the relationship.

The code is essentially this: once you have moved on to a point where the avoidant thinks they don’t have to worry about getting back together with you, that’s when the avoidant starts experiencing nostalgic reverie.

I basically made an entire video on my YouTube channel arguing this singular point:

Ironically, it is during this period of nostalgia that the concept of the phantom ex comes into play. It serves as a mechanism for avoidant individuals to maintain distance, avoiding commitment while engaging in daydreams from a safe distance.

As strange as it may sound, we have discovered that the reason outgrowing your ex is so effective in breakup scenarios is due to the avoidant aspect.

When you outgrow your ex, they perceive that you no longer desire them.

This realization can trigger a sense of longing and daydreaming about you, resulting in that nostalgic reverie. This state of nostalgia often leads to a specific action that we frequently hear about: when someone has moved on, found happiness in a new relationship, and suddenly their ex, whom they once wanted back, starts texting them.

However, the irony lies in the fact that, by that point, you no longer have the same desire for them.

Reason #5: Setting Firm Boundaries

Once again I’d like to bring up that article that my wife and I worked on together, we discussed codependency and the struggles individuals with codependency issues face when it comes to setting boundaries.

This is particularly evident in on-again, off-again relationships.

The on-again, off-again cycle occurs because one person walks away, and the other person chases.

By setting firm boundaries, you prevent this cycle from continuing.

I understand it’s easier said than done, but often the reason boundaries aren’t firm is due to a lack of accompanying actions.

To use an analogy, it’s like rewarding a dog with a treat after it bites you.

If you have an ex who consistently mistreats you and behaves poorly, why would you continue chasing after them?

Instead, set the boundary and back it up with action.

Let them know you won’t allow them to treat you that way, and instead of telling them the consequences, show them the consequences.

Often, the consequence is walking away and being okay with it.

Reason #6: It Finally Gives You Space To Heal

By starting the no contact rule, walking away, you get out of the picture and gain a clearer sense of what has really happened.

It doesn’t mean you’re going to be totally okay afterward or that your feelings will vanish. It’s not like that, but you will become less emotional about it.

It will be easier for you to establish a new routine if you stop talking to the other person because you’re not really helping yourself start over if you keep doing what you used to do, if you keep talking to your ex and placing yourself in the friend zone.

When you keep talking to them, you’re giving them your attention and time, which are two of the most valuable things you can give to another person because time cannot be retrieved.

It’s literally the most valuable resource you have.

That’s why, when it comes to commitment, I believe that the most important aspect of gaining a commitment from someone is obtaining a share of their time.

This is a concept I’ve talked about in my commitment guide.

If they invest a lot of time and energy into you, giving you their attention, it usually indicates they are more invested because we want our time to be used wisely.

Reason #7: It Allows You To Remove Yourself From A Toxic Situation

There are countless ways to approach this, but the prevailing thought that comes to mind is that many people come to us believing that our sole purpose is to help them get their ex back.

However, that’s not entirely true.

What we’re actually trying to do is help you get yourself back.

To go from this:

To this:

My team and I are not going to sit there and encourage you to pursue getting an ex back if you’re in a highly toxic or even life-threatening environment.

We have advised countless individuals to distance themselves from such people because what truly matters isn’t necessarily getting an ex back, but rather healing and regaining yourself after the breakup.

Our goal is to help you become a more secure individual from an attachment style perspective, and part of being secure is recognizing when you’re in a toxic environment.

Many people don’t realize they are in one until we point out the patterns and behaviors of narcissists or highlight how they are being mistreated.
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The Stages Of Heartbreak After A Breakup May 26, 2023

Show notes

This is a complete guide to the major stages of heartbreak after a breakup. In this in-depth guide, you’re going to learn, About the science of heartbreak What I believe to be the 8 stages of grief after a breakup What the most challenging stage is after a breakup How long you can expect the typical heartbreak period to last So, if you’re ready to learn about the significant stages of heartbreak, this is the guide for you. Let’s begin. What Are Your Chances of Getting Your Ex Boyfriend Back? Take the quiz The Science Of Heartbreak The first thing you need to understand is we need to set the stage for what’s going on inside of your body. And to set the stage for what’s going on inside your body, we need to look at the various chemicals or, rather, the various players. And ultimately, those boil down to: Cortisol Dopamine Norepinephrine And Serotonin. All right, so a quick crash course on each one. Cortisol is considered a stress hormone. So often, you’ll find that it’s exceptionally elevated during breakups. Dopamine is actually associated with pleasure, reward, arousal, and desire. We often see this often with the honeymoon period at the beginning of a relationship. Norepinephrine is about increasing memory for new stimuli, but it just makes you extra excitable. Once again, very common to see this during the honeymoon period. And then, finally, we have serotonin. Serotonin is cortisol’s foil. So cortisol is the stress hormone that makes you almost obsessive-compulsive after a breakup. Serotonin is considered a mood stabilizer, and it helps stop OCD from occurring. Okay, now that we have sort of the stage set, let’s talk about what happens at the outset of a breakup. So at the very beginning of a relationship, a lot of the chemicals your brain will release into your body are elevated. Cortisol will be slightly elevated, but dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin are significantly elevated. And this is what creates the euphoria of a honeymoon period. In the middle of a relationship, those various chemicals come back down to normal levels. Heartbreak is a little bit different. When you go through a breakup, dopamine, norepinephrine, and, most importantly, serotonin go way down, and cortisol goes way up. This is important because cortisol creates a potentially significant issue for you when it becomes highly elevated. So one of the best quotes I’ve seen on cortisol after a breakup happened was from this particular man named Jamie Lee, who was featured in an article for bodyandsoul.com. He argued that, on average, it can take three to four hours for your cortisol levels to return to normal after a stress response. So let’s say you get into an argument or have a high-stakes meeting, and your cortisol shoots up, but after three or four hours, it returns to normal. But if your levels have been high for some time, it can take up to six months to balance them out. On average, it’s only supposed to take you three hours. But imagine you’re going through something so stressful that it keeps cortisol in this elevated state. In that case, the cortisol takes so much longer to level out. And this is the core foundation for why people struggle so much during breakups. The breakup is obviously stressful. It triggers cortisol to stay in that elevated state for an extended period. And if it’s in that state for a long time, what happens? You will be very, very stressed for the next six months. There’s just no way around it. Let’s move on to the eight stages of grief after a breakup. Understanding The Eight Stages Of Heartbreak After A Breakup This one requires an introduction. I was inspired by this article I found on Psychology Today, written by a clinical psychologist named Susan Lachmann. She argues that we always know the five stages of grief after a breakup. But when it comes to breakups, she claims there are seven grief stages. And I’ve written about this in the past, but the more I’ve sat and thought about it, the more I would like to alter her stages. It’s not that I disagree with them. I actually do agree with them. I just think they’re not ordered correctly. And there’s one stage that is missing. So to give you a reference, her seven stages are as follows, Desperate for answers Denial Bargaining Relapse Anger Initial Acceptance Redirected Hope I love these stages, but for me, there are eight stages. So, here are my eight stages. Desperation Pain and Guilt Bargaining Anger Depression Initial Acceptance Relapse Actual Acceptance So let’s take a moment and go through each one of these because I feel like each one merits an explanation. Stage #1: Desperation So stage one is considered the desperation stage. This is where you are desperate for answers after a breakup. The most common marker you are in this stage is frantically going to Google or YouTube to search for breakup information. Why you’re feeling, what you’re feeling, how to get your ex back, ways to trick your ex back, You find yourself typing into Google all these things that you would never have thought you were capable of typing. And it’s all just because you’re desperate to understand what happened. Here’s the funny thing. My team and I have found that most of our clients have anxious attachment styles. And the fascinating marker for someone with an anxious attachment style is they are very big on trying to solve problems. And it fits, you know, if you’re desperate for answers, you’re going to Google or YouTube to solve a problem. So that’s the desperation stage. Stage #2: Pain And Guilt This will be where you start to notice many of those anxious triggers coming into play. Desperation Fear of abandonment Begging Pleading Seeking re-assurance But more than anything I want to turn your attention to what I consider to be codependent shaming. So my wife and I recently wrote this great article on how to handle codependence after a breakup. We personally believe many of our clients tend to be too codependent. And as a result, they shame themselves and have these negative self-beliefs that they trap themselves with. And this is pretty common for someone who is codependent. They rely too much on that particular relationship for their well-being and self-esteem. And when that relationship ends or that specific person who their entire world revolves around leaves them, They find themselves dwelling on every perceived problem they believe is their fault, consequently driving their anguish and guilt to unbearable levels. The emotional aftermath of the breakup is excruciating; they’re grieving, deeply immersed in the mourning process. They’re laden with guilt over issues that may not even be their responsibility. Stage #3: Bargaining The third stage is where you enter into my orbit. This is where you determine that you will get back with your ex. You think to yourself; I’ve been doing all the searching. I’ve read Chris’s stuff. I’ve listened to his podcast. I’ve listened to his interview success stories. And you know what? This is possible. I can do this for myself. I know the path forward. This is the bargaining stage. Now, it’s not to say that you can’t succeed. I’m not insinuating that at all in this discussion. I’m just working through the journey that most of our clients typically go through. So this is where you are set on returning with your ex. Simple as that. And then, of course, at some part, stage four is going to occur. And that’s anger. Stage #4: Anger If I’m candid with you, I put anger in here because it is a normal part of the grieving process. But a lot of times, I find that our clients do not get angry with their exes. As I mentioned earlier, most of my clients find their way to me during the bargaining stage, typically when they’re trying to reconcile with their ex. For many, the perspective is not that their ex is incapable of wrongdoing but that they harbor no significant resentment towards them. The onset of anger usually emerges when their initial attempts to win back their ex prove unsuccessful. This is a common experience among those who seek my guidance. Then they get angry, not at their ex, but at the situation. They lash out. Sometimes they blame me. Recently, there were a couple of examples in our community where I didn’t get back to people quick enough with answers, and they grew incredibly frustrated. I see this all the time; it’s pervasive. And I don’t even take it personally because I understand everyone’s going through this. Stage #5: Depression I don’t know if I should go deep into this because you need to understand the roller coaster someone is going through up to this point. They’re incredibly desperate initially, so they’re at a negative. Then they feel pain and guilt; they’re even more negative. Then they enter that bargaining stage. As odd as it sounds, bargaining gives them some hope. They start looking online and at stories of people who have succeeded in getting their exes back. So that is looked at as a positive. And then anger occurs, which is in between a positive and negative because there are instances where anger can make you feel better. But obviously, it’s not great as a whole to live in this angry state. So after that roller coaster comes depression, and what I’m finding at this point is that your cortisol is incredibly elevated, as we talked about in the science of heartbreak section of this discussion. And one thing we know about elevated cortisol is it makes you so much more susceptible to depression. So one of the jobs I’m constantly working on with my clients is helping them find ways to lower that cortisol because we don’t want them in a depressed state. Stage #6: Initial Acceptance The stage of initial acceptance essentially arrives when you decide, “I’m not sure I can get them back anymore.” This realization is entirely normal, often culminating in the thought, “I think I’m okay if I don’t get them back anymore.” Much of what we’re discussing here parallels the traditional five stages of grief. However, we’ve repurposed them for the context of a breakup. But here’s where it becomes particularly intriguing: initial acceptance differs from true acceptance. The former involves convincing yourself that you’re okay, that you’ve moved on. This notion is something I’ve seen repeatedly in the private community I’ve been running since 2016. Members often post about their newfound happiness post-breakup, only to share their feelings of depression and sadness a few weeks later. They had convinced themselves that they were over their ex, didn’t want them back, and were okay. Yet, deep down, they were not. This is the complexity and challenge of initial acceptance. At the moment, it feels genuine, like they have genuinely moved on and are comfortable with the reality of it. But often, it’s just the surface-level feeling and deeper emotions are still at play. Stage #7: Relapse But then comes stage seven, relapse; something happens, something triggers you, and it causes you to start the entire grieving stage over again. You go through a desperate stage where you look for answers on ex-boyfriend recovery or ex-girlfriend recovery. You go to YouTube, watch the videos, and listen to the podcast. You feel pain, guilt, and anger. You bargain with yourself. You’re incredibly depressed. You’ve accepted it again. And then, guess what happens once more? You relapse again. Relapse is the worst thing possible because it’s arguably the stage that takes the longest. When I often talk about the relapse stage, people think, okay, stage seven relapse. That means we’re starting over from stage one, right? Well, no, not exactly. The way relapse works is sometimes you can get caught in it for two, three, or four revolutions where you’re convincing yourself you don’t want them back, only to relapse and want them back again. And it makes that cortisol stay in that elevated state, which makes your life more stressful, which makes you more susceptible to depression. And it’s only after going through relapse a bunch of times that, at some point, you skip it. You go from initial acceptance to our final stage, stage eight, actual acceptance. Stage #8: Actual Acceptance Now actual acceptance is where you actually accept the breakup. It’s the real thing this time. You think, “I’m over them. I’ve accepted that this breakup has occurred. I wouldn’t mind them returning to me, but I don’t need them back.” And it’s authentic. You don’t relapse anymore. You’re ready to move on with your life. Not a ton more to dig into here, if I’m being honest. Instead, I would like to talk about is what I consider to be the hardest stage. What Is The Hardest Stage Of Heartbreak? Without a doubt, the most challenging stage is the relapse stage. What’s complicated about it is its partnership with the initial acceptance phase. So initially, you accept that you’re over the breakup. You convince yourself that, “Hey, this is it. I’m done!” Only to relapse and start over from the beginning. It can feel like an unyielding negative cycle that you’re trapped in. You’re stuck in a hole you can’t climb out of and just when you’ve gotten to the top, just when you’ve seen daylight. Something happens and you relapse, you get pushed back down to the very bottom of that hole again, and it’s time to begin your climb once more. Over and over again. But why the struggle to get to “actual acceptance?” Well, I have found that when I interview success stories, People who get past these relapse phases and into these actuall acceptance phases that have the greatest likelihood of getting their exes back. It’s the common thread we’ve seen through almost every success story, not every single one, but nearly every success story. So my goal as a breakup coach is help move you past the obsessive-compulsive thoughts that you’re having about your ex and help you work through these stages of heartbreak so you can arrive at stage eight more quickly. How Long Will These Heartbreak Stages Last Total? Looking at our success stories can give us some insight. We found that the average success story falls between five to seven months. It’s around 5.2 months, but a range of five to seven months provides a more comprehensive and ideal perspective. But even that is just a “range.” For years I’ve been trying to come up with a formula that can be a one size fits all formula. But ultimately, I realized there’s no one-size-fits-all formula to figure out how long you’re going to be heartbroken or how long you should expect to be heartbroken. Nevertheless, I continue to try. So I will teach you my makeshift formula, and you should take this with a massive grain of salt. This is not going to be accurate all the way. There are things that could be improved with it. I’m happy for you to point out the flaws in the comments, but as a general rule, I have found it to be the most accurate metric you can fall back on. But again, no science is backing it up, and it’s using my polling data. So with that disclaimer out of the way here’s the formula, X/Y + Z = Time in months you’ll be heartbroken X= Time you were together in months Y= 6 months (our average success story timeframe) Z= 3 The standard post-breakup processing period Let’s use an example for clarity. Assume you were together with your ex for seven months. In this case, ‘X’ equals seven. Divide that by six and add three to the result. 7/6+3 = 4.2 This calculation suggests the typical recovery or heartbreak period is roughly 4.2 months. That’s generally how long it takes to reach an emotional state where you feel settled and okay. Like I said, it’s not an exact science but it at least creates an expectation for you.The post The Stages Of Heartbreak After A Breakup first appeared on Ex Boyfriend Recovery.

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Female Behavior After A Breakup May 23, 2023

Show notes

This is a complete list of the top female behaviors after a breakup. And no, the items on this list weren’t randomly chosen just because we felt like it. Each and every one of them was either experienced firsthand by me or one of our coaches, or I actually found research to back it up. Here are the common behaviors females are likely to exhibit after a breakup, More susceptible to anxious behaviors Are better at emotional expression End up recovering more fully after a breakup Won’t go on the rebound as often as men The glow down phase The glow up phase Getting stuck in the relapse stage Let’s dive right in What Are Your Chances of Getting Your Ex Boyfriend Back? Take the quiz Behavior #1: More Susceptible To Anxious Behaviors So, the first thing I’ve noticed is that women tend to exhibit more anxious behaviors or engage in certain actions. While researching for this article, I realized that I hadn’t answered a fundamental question about attachment styles. It has always been apparent that most of our clients have anxious attachment styles, while their exes tend to have avoidant attachment styles. Anxious client, Avoidant ex, However, I wanted to explore the breakdown of these attachment styles based on gender roles. Do women tend to have more anxious attachment styles compared to men? I delved into research and discovered that it argues, Women indeed tend to have more anxious attachment styles than men. This finding sheds light on the next aspect we’re going to discuss, which further supports this notion. Women, especially after a breakup, tend to display more anxious behaviors. If you aren’t familiar with what that looks like then allow me to give you a quick crash course, They’ll seek constant re-assurance Become overly clingy or dependent Constantly fear you’ll abandon them Get jealous Become possessive Overanalyze Be quick to emotional fluctuations But by far the biggest thing I’ve witnessed women do after a breakup is exhibit what I refer to as “Gnatting” behaviors, which is an acronym I came up with for G.N.A.T. (Going Nuts at Texting). G- Going N- Nuts A- At T- Texting But this leads me to my next question: Why? Why are women more susceptible to anxious behaviors? Behavior #2: Women Are Better At Emotional Expression Is it the concept of the core wound? Well, ya that’s part of it. But I also believe another factor is the second significant behavior we’ve noticed women experience after a breakup. It’s the fact that they are generally better at emotional expression. Women tend to openly express their feelings more compared to men. Consequently, after a breakup, they often discuss it with their friends or family members, which can aid in processing their emotions and facilitating a quicker healing process. On the other hand, men have been socially conditioned to suppress their emotions, which can prolong the healing journey. Interestingly, a study conducted by Binghamton University in New York sheds light on this phenomenon. The study revealed that women experience more pain during a breakup but eventually achieve more complete recovery. This finding, to me, highlights another significant behavior exhibited by women. They may initially feel greater distress, but ultimately, they recover more fully. Behavior #3: Women Recover More Fully After A Breakup What’s fascinating about these first three behaviors in women is the synergy that exists among them. Think of causality. The cause and effect of the situation. Females tend to be better at emotional expression. (which leads them to) Exhibit more anxious attachment behaviors (but because of that outward expression) They tend to get over breakup more fully. Have you ever come across that meme depicting how men and women handle breakups? It portrays men being initially ecstatic and women in tears, but then it reverses as time passes. Surprisingly, there is often some truth to these memes. The Binghamton study suggests that because men internalize their emotions and lack open communication and support systems, as dictated by societal norms, their healing process is prolonged. In contrast, women feel the full spectrum of emotions, possess better emotional expression, and have support systems in place, leading to a more thorough recovery from breakups. So, while they may feel worse initially, the positive aspect is that they tend to overcome it more completely. Behavior #4: They Tend NOT To Go On The Rebound (Men Do) The next significant behavior I’ve noticed among women after a breakup relates to their tendency not to engage in rebound relationships, whereas men often do. I came across an intriguing divorce statistic that argued, Men are more likely to seek rebound relationships following a divorce, while women generally do not. This observation has been consistent in our coaching practice as well. Although we don’t encounter many women or men attempting to recover relationships after marriage, it has occurred. However, when it comes to breakups, we have frequently seen female clients implementing the “being there” method. The “being there” method is a strategy we developed for situations where one’s ex has moved on to someone else. Interestingly, we have noticed a higher number of women utilizing the “being there” method compared to men. I believe this relates back to the fact that women tend to refrain from entering rebound relationships as frequently as men. It’s not to say that women never engage in rebounds, but men appear to do so more often. I attribute this pattern to the avoidant cycle, which I often discuss using my “avoidant death wheel” model consisting of eight stages. As individuals progress through these stages, the avoidant (who we often find to be the exes of our clients) reaches a point where they start missing their former partner, and the grief from the breakup begins to surface. At this juncture, they have a choice: either confront and process their emotions, something women tend to excel at, or distract themselves. Rebounding is often a way of seeking distraction. We have observed that fearful avoidants are more susceptible to rebounding, although avoidants in general may also engage in this behavior. Interestingly, according to the research, rebound relationships tend not to last very long. They have a relatively low success rate, with only 19% of rebound relationships lasting beyond two years. So, in the long run, a rebound relationship is unlikely to endure for an extended period. Nevertheless, men are more inclined to pursue rebounds as a means of temporarily forgetting or processing their grief. Behavior #5: The “Glow Down” Phase Now, the next two breakup behaviors exhibited by women are closely interconnected. The glow down phase The glow up phase They care considered separate, but they can almost be combined into one simple behavior if that makes any sense. To truly understand this, we need to explore a crossroads that individuals face during a breakup. At this crossroads, one can either experience a “glow down” or a “glow up.” Let’s first discuss the glow down phase. What is the glow down phase? Essentially, it’s when someone reaches a crossroads and allows the grief and trauma of the breakup to negatively impact them. They may engage in unhealthy behaviors such as excessive drinking, smoking, or seeking validation through multiple casual encounters. Ultimately, these behaviors serve as distractions. Similar to men who may be inclined to pursue rebound relationships, women also resort to unhealthy coping mechanisms to deal with the pain and trauma they’re experiencing. Unfortunately, they neglect what we refer to as the Holy Trinity, a concept we emphasize emphatically here at Ex Boyfriend Recovery. Instead of actively working on improving different aspects of their lives, they engage in actions that may provide temporary relief but do not contribute to long-term growth. For instance, Coach Amor (in the podcast attached to this article above) shared the story of her friend on our podcast, who thought drinking socially would help her relationships, but it ultimately influenced her social circle negatively and hindered progress in other areas of her life. This phase, known as the glow down, worsens one’s situation as it involves engaging in behaviors that do not lead to genuine improvement. Now, let’s turn to the other side of the coin, the glow up phase. Behavior #6: The “Glow Up” Phase Coach Amor made an insightful point during our discussion about this phase. She mentioned that sometimes one has to go through a glow down before they can experience a glow up. It’s about allowing yourself to be broken by the breakup, hitting rock bottom, and then beginning the journey of self-recovery. This is where the glow up phase comes into play. During this phase, individuals wholeheartedly embrace the Holy Trinity concept. Amor herself generously shared her own breakup experience, describing how she initially went through a glow down phase, engaging in negative behaviors and neglecting the Trinity, despite being aware of its importance. However, once she reached rock bottom, she shifted gears and decided to rebuild her life. She focused on balancing different aspects of her Trinity, creating momentum that gradually gained strength. Ultimately, her self-confidence grew. This is the key we strive for when assisting our clients through breakups – helping them reach a point where they are not only okay with their ex, but also content with being single. They become confident in the knowledge that a successful relationship awaits them in the future. This is the essence of the glow up phase. By working on oneself internally, positive external changes begin to manifest. Finally, let’s address the last significant behavior, Behavior #7: Getting Stuck In The Relapse Stage This is going to resonate with many of you. Let’s start by discussing the stages of grief commonly associated with breakups. While experts often talk about the five stages of grief, according to psychologist Susan Lachman, there are actually seven stages of grieving a breakup. The seven stages are as follows: being desperate for answers denial bargaining relapse anger initial acceptance of the breakup redirected hope. I’ve noticed that many people tend to get stuck in the relapse stage. Let’s take Coach Amor as an example. During the podcast episode for this article, she shared her own breakup story, describing how she went through the glow down phase and then repaired herself by going through the glow up phase. However, she recently found herself in the relapse stage, where she constantly cycles through different stages of grief, desperate for answers, getting stuck in denial, or growing overly angry. Her argument was that her momentum was negatively impacted, causing her to regress. Instead of focusing on the negative aspects of her past relationship, she started reminiscing about the good times. This is an important concept that is often overlooked. And that’s the thing, the stages of grief are not experienced in a linear fashion. People often find themselves jumping from denial to anger to acceptance and then back to bargaining, constantly relapsing. The relapse stage itself is characterized by this jumping around, tricking oneself into thinking they have fully accepted the breakup, only to realize that they haven’t truly done so. It becomes a cycle that people can remain stuck in for a significant amount of time. It’s crucial to recognize that this is a normal part of the grieving process that occurs during a breakup. However, if you want to move past the relapse stage, there are three things you can do. Accept your circumstances Distract yourself Re-appraise your ex Accept your circumstances Acknowledge that the breakup has happened and that you need to adapt to this new reality. Distract yourself Take a page from Amors book and find healthy distractions, such as going to the gym. It’s important to note that if the distraction is removed, as in Amor’s case when she couldn’t go to the gym anymore, a relapse may occur. This brings us to the third point. Re-appraise your ex Take a comprehensive look at your time together and acknowledge that while there may have been good moments, there were also significant challenges and negative experiences. Focusing on the negative aspects will help you detach emotionally from your ex. Strangely enough, even if you want your ex back, falling out of love with them is often an essential part of the process. Consistently the most effective approach is to outgrow your ex and move forward.The post Female Behavior After A Breakup first appeared on Ex Boyfriend Recovery.

Full show notes at the publisher