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The Push/Pull Approach To Breakups May 17, 2023

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Today Coach Amor and I will be breaking down this concept of pushing and pulling during a breakup. More specifically, We’re going to define it Show you our push pull equation Look at the healthy way of utilizing push/pull Look at the toxic ways in which it’s utilized Show you how to implement it during the rapport building phase And most importantly have you sign up for coaching with Amor! There’s a lot to cover here so let’s jump right into it. What Are Your Chances of Getting Your Ex Boyfriend Back? Take the quiz Interview Transcript Summary SUMMARY KEYWORDSpull, give, push, people, response, toxic, mirroring, negative, strategy, love, ghosting, positive response, implement, girls, pace, reach, move, argument, bare minimum, interestingSPEAKERSAmor, Chris Seiter Chris Seiter 00:00ready? Okay, today, a more and I are going to be talking about the push pull method of flirting as it relates the breakup situation. How are we doing today? We’re Amor 00:17doing great. I’m excited for topic today. It’s very interesting. Chris Seiter 00:22So I want everyone listening to this to know that more, and I spent an hour. And I literally, I don’t know if you know this more, but I timed it. You can see my screen here. I timed it below. It’s an hour and five minutes. Yeah, this outline. We barely have anything. No, I’m just kidding. Amor 00:40We had a lot of arguments. We did. Chris Seiter 00:43We did. And actually, what a great segue. Our very first argument was revolving around defining push and pull. Yeah. So so we had a fundamental difference on what push and pull meant. So I believe I think you need to Amor 00:59adjust that. Okay. Some people might have the same idea as I did. Chris Seiter 01:05Yeah, you know, it is kind of confusing because of the way they I’ve also heard it referred to as rubber banding, which might actually be an accurate way of looking at it. But of course, push and pull is the keyword people type into Google. So that’s the one we got to play with. Anyways, basically, this is funny, this is the big argument that I’m worn, I had basically for like 15 minutes. And I think I won the argument after I pulled up like multiple references, or at least a reference. But basically, I believed that pushing was essentially the kin to ghosting someone or avoiding someone and pulling was kind of like love bombing or showing a lot of interest. But a more had this wacky other way of thinking about it. And now tag your it because I don’t even know how to explain that. Amor 01:53In my point of view, when you push, it’s not your it’s your time of giving so much investing so much giving attention, you know, texting a lot, calling a lot, showing up a lot. And then when you pull, you suddenly take it all back. It’s a very toxic way. But that’s how manipulators do it in their mind. They’re investing investing, investing in the receivers point of view. That’s the push and when they pull away when everything is gone when they’re bread, crumbing or ghosting, that’s the pull away stage. That’s actually yeah, I realized that’s wrong. I mean, that’s not the right definition. I just really did it that that. Chris Seiter 02:35So the thing is, I see what you’re talking about. But for the purposes of this discussion, we’re gonna go with my definition, since I think that’s probably the most accurate one. Not to say you’re wrong, but you’re wrong. Amor 02:52I am wrong. Okay, but defeat. Chris Seiter 02:55Finally, God only took an hour. Okay, so basically, for the purpose of this discussion, push is going to be ghosting. Polling is going to be kind of love bombing. And we kind of came up with this fun little equation about really, I don’t know, maybe if equation is the right word, but basically a frame of reference to look at pushing and pulling. And, and it was actually a Moore, who had this really intriguing way of looking about how girls and guys kind of handle relationships. Yeah, so why don’t you go ahead and take that. Amor 03:33I used to hear this a lot from other women. not that old, but since high school. And you know, how, you know, how is the courtship starts with men pursuing the flirting stage. And we don’t know this that, at first, the guys are, sometimes they’re always into it, like, they move too fast. They give everything and when they’re excited, you know, they want to do everything they plan everything they want to see you always what the girls are not aware of is that the guys set the direction of the relationship or the courtship stage, but the girl should be the one that’s deciding about the pace of how, you know how everything goes, That guy set the direction the girl set the pace. So in that way, you’re both incorporating the push pull equation, because if you’re, but most of the time, girls are not aware of that. They just let the guy pursue and pursue and then in some cases, if if the guy is toxic, if the guy is manipulative, they know that the more they invest, they’re gonna, they’re gonna hook you in and then that’s when they ghost you or they read Chrome, you now you’re confused. There’s only one person is implementing the push and pull. The guy is setting the direction and he’s also setting that He’s so yeah, just to share girls, you need to be aware of that you should be the one setting the pace. And I think you gave a better example on how to implement it equally, because I didn’t I wasn’t even. I didn’t realize that we can. You know, the guys are the one that’s the guy should allow the girl, I think you need to talk about that more. Okay. Chris Seiter 05:27So yeah, I mean, believe it or not, I’ve been doing this for 10 years. It was the first time I had ever heard this take on relationship dynamics, and I loved it. So Amor 05:37I think it’s more of a cultural thing. Because in Asian, you know, in Asian culture, the guy should be the pursuer. It’s not encouraged for the girls to pursue. You’re allowed. Chris Seiter 05:51Yeah, yeah. I mean, I can’t tell you how often people want to crucify me for saying like, Oh, yeah, no, you reach out first, especially if they’re women. They’re like, No, but no. So I don’t necessarily think it’s just Asian culture. I think it’s almost as a universal thing. But yeah, so Amor 06:04basically, your wraps in the topic of, you know, feminine and masculine energy. right into that. Chris Seiter 06:12I think they are Amor 06:13interrupting you. Okay, good. Chris Seiter 06:17So yeah, basically, the argument you were making is like, Guys, in general, in relationships, they’re thinking about the direction you know, where to go, what to do natural. So like, they have this, this natural inclination to want to move really fast. They, they’re kind of in love with this pursuit stage. Whereas girls, on the other hand, they’re all about the pace of the relationship, which I really love that you talked about that. So like, you know, oftentimes they’ll say, you know, that date doesn’t work for me, or I’m not ready for that. So they kind of dictate the pace, but Amor 06:45we’re worried about it, but we love it, that you move fast, but we are worried about it. Chris Seiter 06:51You’re kind of like slow down their head honcho? You know, we’re not, we’re not quite ready for that yet. But yeah, more than I had this really another one of the big debates we had when we were kind of like outlining this topic was the healthy ways of push pull, and the toxic ways of push pulling. And I think that was that was an idea that came up with you. So basically, like, she was asking me like, Hey, what is the healthy way of of implementing this push pull thing, and I was arguing that I think there needs to be a reset in the way that we’ve looked at pushing and pulling, you know, we often look at the pushing and pulling as his way of manipulating this person to feel a certain way about us. Instead, I think a more healthy way of looking at it is the mirroring approach, you know, so when they pull back, you pull back. And what often happens in healthy environments is guys, they’re allowing the girl to set the pace, and girls are knowing when to set the pace. So oftentimes, this push pull mechanism, these two elements are present. But on the other hand, a more was talking about this toxic way of pushing and pulling. And we actually had a really long spirited debate about like, Okay, well, let’s define what the toxic way of pushing and pulling is. And the toxic way is, basically you’re trying to manipulate the person with selfish intent, so you only care about what you feel. So you’re kind of like in love with this high being chased. And we see this a lot with guys specifically, who are not allowing a girl to pace and girls not knowing that they are allowed, they let the guy dictate the pace. And these are kind of like the this, if you look at this equation of like, Okay, girls, set the pace, guys try it or think about the direction. And if that is present, you tend to have a more healthy way of looking at this push pull. But on the other hand, it’s very toxic. If guys are setting the pace, or yeah, basically, guys are setting the pace and direction. So to kind of bring this back to that masculine feminine energy or a yin and yang, both of these elements need to be in place for a healthy relationship to potentially develop. Yeah. And I do you want to take the implementing the because really, you so I want Amor 09:15to be more clear that go over I know, I mentioned this earlier, but if the toxic way is leaning more on what the intent is, for example, if it’s a long term relationship, and just like what we talked about, once you’re bored, you pull away everything, just because you’re bored. But sometimes, you know, I don’t know how you would react to this stress, but sometimes a little bit of that for me, for me, it’s okay just to spice things up, but don’t do it in a routine way. Like you need to you need to set it so that when you know there’s an imbalance in the relationship. Like you’re giving way too much. You have to pull back. And that’s that’s although the intention is more for yourself. You’re thinking about I like how we advise the UG hours because some of them would think so the UG hours or more for myself than that it’s toxic right? Chris Seiter 10:08Now you can easily argue that this is girls just setting the pace. Amor 10:13Yes, yes, exactly. But if they do it, is it also toxic if they need more time for themselves? Chris Seiter 10:22I don’t think so. Amor 10:24Right? Because yeah, they are basing it, but it’s not. I just want to make it clear that it’s not black and white. But you would know that if it’s toxic, if it keeps happening, if it becomes a pattern. Ghosting, you know, right bread crumbing. That’s a push and pull tactic. And they’re doing it for fun, not because they want to be want to grow, they need time for themselves. No, they’re doing it for the height of the feeling of being chased. Some because I want to address that this people, some people are, they’re not really into this, because they feel like they’re manipulating their ex. So, yeah. Chris Seiter 11:05But yeah, I mean, I think certainly that’s the case with a lot of people, I think the the long pole in the tent for people to understand, I guess the thing we’re trying to get out here is probably the mantra you should be having when you’re looking at pushing and pulling is instead trying to approach it from a mirroring perspective. Amor 11:27Racing, Chris Seiter 11:29because, like, if you think about it, like if you’re marrying someone, it allows a relationship to kind of unfold organically. And really to kind of hammer this home, you know, a more was asking me like, Okay, you, you’re arguing, Chris, that the the push pool concept is sort of not even the right way of looking at it. Instead, the mirroring concept is probably the better way, you know, when they pull away, you, you pull away when they pull back, you pull back. But how do you actually implement it? When you’re building rapport? And you do it? Exactly. And so my argument there is, it’s important when you’re in the rapport building stage with an ex, or I guess, just in general with anyone. We’ve had actually a lot of interesting. People in the Facebook group specifically telling us like, yeah, you know, I’m not trying to get my ex back anymore. But I use some of the stuff that you’re teaching to get exes back on, just like normal dates, and it’s working. So I do think there’s some applications here with just non breakup situations. But it’s important that you have a framework like the value ladder, and within that framework, be implementing the mirroring approach with some guardrails or bumpers. And to kind of, we kind of created a chart, I guess, to help with that. Do you want to just set up the chart? And then I can kind of go into it? Amor 12:58Yeah, we we talked about how do you really handle it in the real world? Because that’s probably what your concerns are, how do you implement the push pull while you’re building rapport? And with the responses that, you know, you’re gonna get? So how do you implement the push pull when you get a positive and negative and neutral and no response? That’s, that’s what you’re gonna encounter, whether you’re trying to build rapport with your ex or with a new person. So the first at first, I thought, if you always, you know, get a positive response, which what we all want in a fairytale setting your positive response? Yeah. And everything’s good. And you’re getting back faster than everyone else. Chris Seiter 13:41It’s true. Amor 13:45In real life, specially with our listeners who have avoidant access, or let’s say fearful avoidant, let’s say you get a positive response. This, does that mean, you’re not going to implement the push pull? Well, how do you? Yeah. Chris Seiter 14:02Are you asking me more? Amor 14:04Yeah. Okay. Chris Seiter 14:08So yeah, I mean, this is actually something like not to belabor the point here. But this is actually something I struggled with a long time. Because we see it a lot in the group. This concept of people really falling in love with being Eugene, and a lot of times they associate being Eugene with being unavailable. And that is a huge part of it, you know, but if you’re unavailable all the time, that’s not going to foster necessarily the best environment for attraction to happen. You have to be available some time for attraction to happen. And so yeah, one of the reasons why I like the mirroring approach so much is actually how it handles positive interactions. So oftentimes, what I see people or a mistake I see people making in the group is they get a positive response from their ex And then they’re almost trained. And a lot of this is my fault for the way I had the program set up in the past before we kind of like had it evolve, but they’re trained to like, Okay, I got the positive response. Now I’m gonna kind of go back into my bunker and wait a little bit, and then I’ll come back out. But what’s interesting is, when I’ve interviewed a lot of success stories, I found that it’s usually the people who take advantage of the momentum that end up having the greater successes in the end. So in my opinion, when you get a positive response with someone, it’s important to keep going. But you don’t want to match their exact enthusiasm. So if they’re like, if their enthusiasm is at a 10, you want to match their enthusiasm, but a bit at a seven. So you give them a little something, you acknowledge how they’re feeling, and you can kind of keep the momentum going, but you’re not matching them. Exactly. So you’re there’s always like a little, little sum. So I think that’s kind of the thing that makes the biggest difference. And that that is that is my way of being available while being unavailable. Amor 16:02Like what I basically you’re basing it, you’re trying to take it slow. Yeah. But you’re not totally pushing them away. By being predictable. You’re there, you’re like, you have to validate, but…

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Male Behavior After A Breakup May 04, 2023

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Ready to learn about the basic male behaviors you can expect after a breakup. In this in-depth guide, Coach Amor and I are going to answer, Why there are 7 stages of grief that men will go through after a breakup The 10 most common behaviors men typically engage in after breakups How men show their emotions differently than women after a breakup Why some men move on quickly after a breakup whereas others struggle to let go. There aren’t too many areas of the male psyche that Amor and I are going to leave uncovered in this one so buckle up. What Are Your Chances of Getting Your Ex Boyfriend Back? Take the quiz There Are Actually 7 Stages Of Grief When It Comes To Breakups I mean, we’ve all heard of the five stages of grief, right? Well, according to Suzanne Lachmann Psy.D., there are actually 7 stages to grieving a breakup, Desperate for answers Denial Bargaining Relapse Anger Initial acceptance Redirected Hope To be honest with you I did a blow by blow of these seven stages last week in this article and in this video, So if you want understand how those seven stages work then definitely check out those resources (cause lord knows I don’t have the patience to write another 800 words describing the stages again.) I bring this up though because really the meat of this article is the typical behaviors that men will “show” after a breakup and each of those behaviors fall into one of the seven stages of grief above so I feel like having at least a working knowledge of those seven stages is important. Thus, do your research ladies (or gents.) Alright, let’s get to the reason for why you’re actually here. Here’s How Men Typically Behave After A Breakup Below is a list of the 10 most common behaviors we have observed men exhibit after a breakup. Distract themselves Separation Elation Social Media Creeping Self Destructive Behaviors Uptick In Social Media Posts Trying To Make You Jealous Going Back To The Phantom Ex Ask for you back (Bargaining) Angry (Lash out) Your fault (demonize you) Let’s start from the top. Behavior #1: They Distract Themselves It is common for men to distract themselves, whether they are the ones who ended the relationship or the ones who ended things with you. Some common examples of post-breakup behavior that I have observed in men include, partying excessively playing games (both mobile and PlayStation) and spending a lot of time with friends. Interestingly, some men may not post much on social media. Still, when they do, they almost overcorrect as if trying to “prove that they are ok.” The reality is that they may have spent the whole day playing games or going to a party for only an hour but made it seem like they were out all night. By focusing on other activities, they try to avoid feeling the pain of the breakup. Still, they may also need to hide their emotions from others Behavior #2: Separation Elation God I feel like a broken record. I swear I have talked about this everywhere on the website but perhaps none more famously than this video and article, As you probably know by now most of our clients believe that their exes have an avoidant attachment style, Which means that most of our clients exes probably experience some variation of the following cycle, This is the relationship death wheel of which there are eight main stages, I want someone to love me I found someone my troubles are over I’m noticing some worrying things I’m thinking of leaving I’ve decided to leave the relationship I’m so happy that I left I’m starting to feel kind of lonely Why can’t I ever find the right person It’s really that sixth stage that concerns us here. The whole “I’m so happy that I left” stage. This is known as “separation elation” or as my favorite avoidant resource, Free To Attach likes to put, After a relationship ends, people with an avoidant attachment style tend not to show much anxiety or distress, often feeling an initial sense of relief at the relinquishing of obligations and the sense that they are regaining their self-identity, and not tending to initially miss their partner – this is “separation elation” as the pressure to connect is gone. So, all those times that you are worried about your ex boyfriend looking happy without you, well, it’s real. But in almost every case it doesn’t last because stages seven and eight of the death wheel are right around the corner. Behavior #3: Social Media Creeping Let’s talk stats. According to the Veronica Lucaks and graduate student who conducted a study on Facebook creeping as part of her Media Studies Masters thesis, Close to 90% of exes admitted to “facebook creeping” So yes, your ex will probably be spying on you post breakup. If you want to know how you should be handling that I recommend you check out my social media guide. But ultimately the question almost always turns to some variation of, Well, my ex is different, they’d never do this. (Yes, yes they will, the statistics bear it out.) Or my personal favorite, Well, my ex isn’t even on social media. (I have heard DIRECTLY from exes in success story interviews that they either used a friend or signed up JUST to spy.) Behavior #4: Self Destructive Behaviors I’ve been playing around with Chat GPT lately. (Don’t worry I’m still writing my own articles.) But I got curious about it’s ability to find me research to back up my points and it DID. Problem was all the research it “found” was made up. But the one consistent thing that it would always relate to breakups and men is that they are very prone to exhibiting self destructive behaviors. See for yourself, It’s actually pretty accurate. Substance abuse Reckless behaviors Isolation Avoidance Promiscuity But the real problem with chat GPT is that it usually spits out generic information (right now at least.) So, allow me to add my own spin to destructive behaviors. All throughout my life I always wanted a tattoo. My mom said no. My dad said no. My very first girlfriend looked disgusted when I told her I wanted one. Hell, even my best friend didn’t look all too pleased when I dropped a hint. Well, during my very first breakup ever to my first girlfriend in my anger and grief I decided THAT was the best time to get a tattoo. My way of rebelling was to get this tattooed onto my left shoulder, It means freedom. Behavior #5: You See An Uptick In Social Media Posts This one is kind of interesting and it has a direct connection with separation elation. Basically when a guy is “feeling himself” after a breakup one of the behaviors you’ll notice that he engages in is that he’ll start posting on social media, a lot. Yes, sometimes they can be posts like this, But very often they won’t be direct “call outs” about you. It’ll just be an increase in posting frequency. Maybe your ex would post once a month on facebook or instagram when you were together but now they are posting almost every day. The question is why? I think there are many possible explanations, They feel lonely Trying to make you jealous by “winning the breakup” But for me the most likely reason is that they like the attention from other people. There has been a lot of research lately, That finds that receiving likes on social media can activate the brain’s reward center, similar to receiving a monetary reward. However, this effect was stronger for likes received from friends compared to likes from strangers. Thus, as a way of “self soothing” or making themselves feel better after a breakup by relying on the attention of others. Behavior #6: They Are Trying To Make You Feel Jealous I’ve talked a lot on this website of this childish concept that men often fall victim to, winning the breakup. I mean, they’ve even made entire movies about this concept, One look at our community is enough to see how many exes can fall victim to this behavior. But really “winning the breakup” boils down to, One person looking more successful after a breakup than the other. As you can probably tell this behavior is correlated to the one above it. Usually exes who are posting on social media a lot are doing so because they want to “win the breakup.” Which is why I chose to place the two behaviors together. Behavior #7: Obsessing About The Phantom Ex Now we get to the crazy stuff. Alright, if you want a full breakdown of the phantom ex and how that works I suggest you read my article on it or watch this video, But basically avoidant exes will often fall victim to something called “a phantom ex.” Officially, the phantom ex is a past partner that you can’t seem to stop thinking about. Instead, you hyper focus on them and romanticize your time together. Even when that time together wasn’t all that great. But one of the things I’ve noticed that almost no one seems to talk about is how often your ex will start obsessing about their “phantom ex” while they are still with you. And this is really on brand for avoidants. For them, the ideal relationship is one where they don’t have to fully commit. One where they can daydream from afar. And sometimes the pull of this phantom ex is so strong that they find themselves actively trying to re-pursue this person only to lose interest with them when they finally DO get that person And around and around we go. Behavior #8: They Try To Ask For You Back Do you remember when I said that all of these behaviors can be linked to the 7 stages of breakup grief. Well, this one is firmly linked to “bargaining.” One admission, this one tends to be rarer but it does happen. In fact, every once in a while during my interviews with success stories you can find that an ex will ask them back during that no contact phase like in Jenny’s situation below, Essentially she didn’t even have a chance to complete a full no contact rule because he showed up to her porch and basically begged for her back. I do want it noted though that this is the exception to the rule. Most exes will NOT do this. Behavior #9: Anger Once again pulling from our those stages of grief. Here’s the interesting thing about anger that no one thinks about. Very often after a breakup it’s easier to hold on to anger for it’s cathartic release. BUT IT’S A TEMPORARY ONE! Research suggests that holding on to anger for too long can cause you to go in a cognitive decline as opposed to those who are more likely to forgive. Basically the following functions become negatively affected, Memory Attention Perception Problem Solving All things you don’t want to decline. Behavior #10: They Demonize You They make you the bad guy. And yes, that’s even including situations where they were the ones to break up with you. It’s so much easier to blame someone else as apposed to taking ownership yourself for problems you may have created. This is often why you’ll hear them saying bad things about you behind your back. It’s all a deflection mechanism their ego has in place so they get to remain as the “good guy.” How Do Men Show Their Emotions Differently Than Women After A Breakup? I get asked this question all the time and the answer is actually really interesting and has a lot to do with the societal expectations of how men and women are supposed to handle breakups. According to this research paper from the University of Texas Women tend to feel more comfort in relying on friends and family after a breakup where men don’t want to give in to the stigma of “needing help after a breakup.” which ultimately means they hold on to the breakup longer. This is why, over the long term men tend to have a more difficult time “moving on” from breakups as opposed to women. They feel all this outside pressure from society that they should “have it handled.” But the “handling it yourself” approach doesn’t really help you process your emotions. Women have it right. They seek help from others. They talk to others. They process their feelings and this allows them to more fully let go when the time comes. But then why is it that some men seem to move on quickly after a breakup, while others struggle to let go? Well, I think attachment styles might play a role in explaining this. Anxious exes: Obsess and try to fix. They don’t move on quickly. Avoidant exes: Avoid and suppress, initially seeming to let go quickly. But make no mistake, statistically speaking, men struggle with more long term effects related to breakups than women seem to.The post Male Behavior After A Breakup first appeared on Ex Boyfriend Recovery.

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Success Story: How This Woman Got Her Ex Back After He Blocked Her (And Then Decided She Deserved Better) May 03, 2023

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Last week I had the pleasure of interviewing Chris (yep, she has the exact same name as me.) Her situation was really intriguing because she actually met a new guy during the no contact rule and decided to pursue him. Of course, as these things typically go, right as she gets the new guy the old one comes back. So, if any of this sounds interesting to you, A unique look at how our program can work on people who aren’t exes What being unblocked by an ex usually looks like How to thrive during no contact The importance of letting go of an ex to get them back Then you are definitely going to want to listen to this interview. Interview Transcript Chris Seiter 00:02All right, today we are talking to Chris, which is funny. But Chris, Chris has kind of a unique success story. She came through our program. I don’t know too much about her situation, actually, which is, which I think is gonna make for a great interview. But from what I understand she came through our program to get an ex back about a year ago, and decided that she didn’t want him back anymore. But now he’s blowing up her phone. Do I have that? Right? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, interview over let’s we’re done. Yeah, right. Worked. Follow the program. Yeah, right. Okay, so why don’t you take us back to the very beginning and, you know, take us off, I was devastated. I dated this guy for Chris 00:47three months, it seems like a short amount of time, but it really felt like we were moving in the right direction. And then one day, after we came back from a short, like, vacation, he broke up with me, and then blocked me on his phone. And I went all like emotional on him, you know, last night, etc. And went to his house and was like, What’s going on, and I don’t get it, you know, and just didn’t feel it anymore. And didn’t think he could be the guy I needed him to be and all of this. So I was like, okay, and I left and was devastated and was looking for something to help me get through it. But at first looking for something to help me get him back. And that’s when I stumbled upon your program, and started learning. Chris Seiter 01:39Okay, so he basically breaks up with you after this vacation, right? And doesn’t just break up with you, he blocks you. On the phone, I couldn’t text him. And then he dropped me on Facebook, and he just dropped me everywhere. I was like, What is going on? It was so odd. That’s intriguing. Okay, I mean, that’s not that’s obviously horrible and everything, but it’s intriguing, because we know where we’re going to kind of end up right. And lately, for some reason, in the community, I’ve noticed a lot of people panicking because they’ve been blocked on the phone. So I feel like your story can help those type of individuals. But so you go and do kind of the typical thing. You go to Google, you go to YouTube, you start searching frantically for how to get your ex back, you somehow stumbled into our ecosystem? Did you stumble into any other ecosystems and try any other programs first? Um, no, I didn’t really try any other programs. Chris 02:36I think I think what I liked about your program first is that you had that Facebook group that I could kind of kind of like sit in and kind of hang out and just watch everybody else and kind of what they were doing and then then jump in, you know, what else I liked about your program was the audio. I could listen to your audio books. So I’d be like, you know, getting ready listening to yours for the day listening to your stuff, or in the car driving listening to your program. Chris Seiter 03:02It’s kind of cool. Yeah. Did you listen to the podcast at all? Now that you’re on the podcast? Chris 03:09Right. Um, actually, I listened to one I think, that wasn’t like, mostly it was the books that I was listening to. And the Facebook group, Chris Seiter 03:19for sure. Okay. So you’re kind of one of those those lurkers in the Facebook group that took a while to get your toe. Right, you know, dipped in, but obviously at some point did you dip in did you get like a battle buddy? Did you do I did. Chris 03:35I got a battle buddy. She was great. Um, then I actually somebody else latched on to me through the group, and then we became messenger, you know, Facebook Messenger, buddies about it. And so the community is just really great. And being able to tag people on Facebook when you have a question. Yeah, have them answer you right away and help you through it. All of that was key, for sure. Chris Seiter 04:03Okay, so obviously, we’re skipping over some important stuff. You’ve, you’ve resolved to get your ex back, you’ve taken the step of getting the program you’re in the community. But you’re blocked. So what is your no contact look like? Do you how do you text him when that that kind of goes about why don’t you take us through that? Chris 04:25So um, after I had looked into your program, I was deciding okay, I need to, I need a 30 to 45 day no contact because I lost my emotional control on him. I went to his house. He was still texting me a couple of days after that, but it was very, like blah. After he unblocked me, so he blocked me and then unblocked me the next day. Chris Seiter 04:51Okay, so it was kind of a quick unblocking walk you again at any point, Chris 04:55um, you know, I don’t remember if he did I know he did. didn’t block me on Facebook. He just unfriended me. And I know from my brief history with him, that he was somebody who checked other people’s Facebook pages, because he was like, Oh, check on the plane home from this vacation. He was like, Oh, check that person out, you know, because I think I’m blocked. And it was just one of our mutual friends or whatever. I was like, okay, so I checked it out. And he was like, oh, there’s always a way to just so I remember him mentioning, there’s always a way to find things out. And I was like, okay, so I knew he would be checking out my Facebook page. Yeah. And he tipped his hand to that too, because at the end of March, and we had broken up at the end of February, when I had just started a new job and inland a huge deal. And I posted about it, and he did reach out a day later and texted me and said, I saw you got a deal. Congratulations. And I was like, Chris Seiter 05:54even though you’re not friends on Facebook at this point. Right. Yeah. Just I just heard through the grapevine. Is that is that the whole the whole show? Chris 06:02No, I would I just assumed, you know, I was friends with his son’s girlfriend on Facebook still. So I don’t know. You know, he, I guess you could have heard it from her. Chris Seiter 06:15But he could have, he could have taken her phone and looked it up just yet. Right? Chris 06:19No, I think he, um, I was still open. I didn’t change anything about my Facebook, kind of like your program said, don’t make any huge changes. Leave things the way they are. And my Facebook was never like closed, it was open to friends of friends. And so if his son’s girlfriend was a friend, he had access, and I knew that so I was going to be as big as I could be throughout this whole thing. So you basically are going through the No Contact Rule? Did you struggle at all with that? Absolutely. Because he reached out, you know, he texted me. And I was like, oh, you know, I want it so bad to text him back. I mean, I did goof up at one point, in the very beginning, it was probably two days in. And I just basically said thanks to that text, write about the deal. And then after that, I was like, Alright, I can’t do that anymore. I had to restart. I had to restart the whole nine, no contact thing. And then I was good. But it was hard. I’m glad I had the battle buddy. I had, I’m glad I had the community to fall back on because I could, you know, go on there and say, oh, you know, he texted me and everybody’s like, no, no, don’t text you back. You know? Chris Seiter 07:43So. So that’s interesting. You basically said you were kind of doing a 30 This 45 day, no contact. He reaches out to you day two of that you say thanks. You started over from the beginning. Did you end up breaking it again? Or did that support system of the battle buddy or the community kind of helped bring you through that? Chris 08:05Yeah, I didn’t break it again. So I was pretty proud of myself at that point. Chris Seiter 08:09Okay. Did you what kind of changes do you feel like you made during the no contact? Chris 08:15Everything I was, I was bound and determined to get my life in order and to be somebody who would be attractive not only to him, but just anybody. I was still going to go date I decided I needed to date other people, just to kind of distract me. From the whole thing. Was that pretty horrible? Chris Seiter 08:39Most people say it’s horrible. Chris 08:40To date. It can be I mean, I did. So fast forward, I ended up finding this great guy, Chris Seiter 08:46right. But initially afterwards, did you struggle with it? Yeah, Chris 08:50I did. I mean, it only took me a month to meet this great guy that I thought was great and start falling for him. But he was also one of those that was kind of off limits, not sure what he wanted. So this whole program helped me you know, kind of keep myself from texting my ex ERP, but also helped me on the other side with being really emotional and having emotional control. And not being pushy. And being very patient on the dating side, too. So okay, great. Chris Seiter 09:27So this is interesting. So you’re basically saying you met the new guy, like a month after no contact ended or like right when no contact right when no contact ended? Chris 09:39Oh, actually. Actually, I met him. I gotta say I met him probably two weeks after we broke up. So I met him during the no contact phase. And things just maybe started amping up. Okay, as a contact. Chris Seiter 09:55Did you like meet him at a work function? Chris 09:58No, I met him online. I met him Man online dating to me that was like the, that was the thing that I needed to get over the hump of. Yeah, Guy and it’s so funny, I signed up, like maybe a couple of days after we broke up. I was like, Fine, I guess I’m gonna go back on to dating where I met this guy to, you know, my ex ERP. And then I go on, and the next morning, I’m flipping through and they’re his face pops up. It was just like, dying. I was like, oh, first I was like, devastated. And I’m like, you’ve got to be kidding me. Like, already, you’re on here after, you know, dumped me. So, Chris Seiter 10:38but aren’t you on there too? Chris 10:40I know. But I wasn’t the dumper. You know, it was kind of like it’s true. It’s kind of like, okay, you dumped me, I guess I have no other alternative and to get back out in the dating pool, but so it was kind of interesting. And I think he blocked me on the dating site, which is fine. But um, Chris Seiter 10:56okay, so you eventually are on this dating site, you during no contact, see this new person? Do you immediately start dating him during no contact? Or at least taking him out on dates? Or him taking you out on a date during no contact? Or did that wait until Chris 11:14we went on date? We went on a date. We went on a date during no contact. Chris Seiter 11:20Okay, that’s interesting. How did that go? Chris 11:24It was great. Actually, I was really, so I was really attracted to him. And we hit it off really well. And it’s funny the first day I had with him. I left that date because it was a very impromptu date. Like, it’s like, Can we meet after work today, I really want to meet you because we were texting and doing the whole messaging thing. And so I was like, I guess I can squeeze you in. And I did. And then when I left him, I went to my real date that I had set up with another individual that I did not meet online, he and I were friends and decided to go out on a date. So yeah, I was busy. I can’t busy. I kept myself busy with dating. And I also kept kept myself busy with all of the hobbies that I started. And all of the improvements I was doing in my life. So I was really busy. Chris Seiter 12:15Did you post about the date on social media? Chris 12:19No, I did not. Well, I did not post about the date I posted about where I was, like going out to dinner. Okay. I posted like a check in. Chris Seiter 12:31Yeah, I like that. Yeah. Okay. So no contact ends, you’ve been on a date with this new guy, you are actually feeling like you’re attracted to this new person, which, interestingly enough, Chris. That’s kind of rare. Like most people who come through our program who go on dates actually dread it, they hate the dates. Use first Chris 12:55date. Okay, I went on a couple of other dates, which were bombers. And I was like, this sucks. Chris Seiter 13:03But you kind of found a winner in the guy. And then how does that look? You come out of no contact? Are you at that place where you’re kind of like confused on if you want your ex back? Or if you just want to go forward with the new guy. Chris 13:17Yeah, I was still confused. I mean, if maybe, you know, at the end of a no contact if the guy would have been open to because I did. I did the whole program. I did the reach out for you know, help text, you know, or advice text. And he was he responded, but was very short. And by the way, on his end of the spectrum, he also linked up with another woman not too long after he broke up with me and was still, you know, pursuing her. So I was like, okay, he must be done with me. He’s with this new girl. I’m gonna reach out and see what happens. And he would respond with some help. But then that would be about it. You know, it would be it would kind of end there. I’m Chris Seiter 14:04sure that that kind of further push you into the new guys. Yeah. Chris 14:08Okay, I guess you’re not. You’re really not that interested. I don’t know. You know, I know you’re still dating that other woman. So I didn’t you know, I didn’t go crazy about it. I guess at that point. It was interesting. I mean, I still want to entertain dating him, he would have asked me out at that point, but he he didn’t you know, Chris Seiter 14:31okay, so at some point, or maybe a better question is at what point? Is it like an organic process of getting to this point where you’re like, you know what, I’m gonna put most of my focus on the new guy. Or is it just like after that initial attempt to reach out and almost like his coldness. Did that almost push you into the arms of Chris 14:52the new guy? Yeah, I would say it did for sure. It wasn’t like I put all of my energy into the new guy either, because how odd is that? Right? Yeah, I am. And he wasn’t ready either clearly, to be in a committed relationship with Me, either I could tell that. So I was still dating him and still dating other people, even though I knew that I wanted to be with him. Chris Seiter 15:24If that makes any sense, yeah, no, I mean, the does. So the new guy. You mentioned a little bit earlier in the interview that you had to use some of the techniques on him. He almost had some avoidant tendencies himself. Can you maybe walk us through that? Chris 15:42Sorry, I think the whole social media posting thing was huge again, because he’s, uh, he’s on social media all the time. He still is. Chris Seiter 15:50What’s these guys that you’re dating? It’s like, yeah, social media mavens or something like that. Chris 15:59Yeah. And I think the new thing now especially on Facebook, or and probably anywhere, but I’m just more on Facebook. These guys throw out these dicasteries nets to ask for all of these friends from their friends groups, to all these different women. I think they sit there and like, go, oh, that she looks cute. She’s with what she knows my friend, I think I’ll send her a friend request. And so I mean, with him I was looking at is the s like cheese? How many new friends can you get in one month, you know, like, 30 different women and guys, too, but it was like she’s, you know, a heck is going on. So I just knew he wasn’t in the mode to be somebody who was in a…

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Success Story: She Got Two Exes Back With Our Process, Here’s How! Apr 24, 2023

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I had the pleasure of interviewing Nina. A woman fresh of getting her ex back. What’s really interesting about her situation is that she ended up using our program to get not one but two of her exes back. Believe it or not this isn’t uncommon. Sometimes we’ll have someone come through our program and either succeed or fail, ultimately move on and then years later they’ll come back into our orbit after they’ve gone through another breakup. But what really struck me about Nina was just how patient she was throughout the whole process. In this interview you’re going to learn, Nina’s story with her first ex Nina’s story with her second ex Ultimately what she believes the optimum way to get an ex back is Being wary of this idea of immediately wanting to fix things How she got through the holidays Letting the universe dictate your texting reach outs Looking at if her ex had the grass is greener syndrome Pinpointing exactly how long it took to get her ex back Let’s dive in! What Are Your Chances of Getting Your Ex Boyfriend Back? Take the quiz Interview Transcript Chris Seiter 00:02Okay, today we have a another success story with a really interesting woman named Nina, who not only, I mean, you originally came on here to tell me about the 1x, you came back, but then I get on here, you’re telling me you actually use the program years ago to get another ex back. So we kind of got to to one special here. But thank you for doing this. Nina 00:25Yes, of course, happy to be here. So I’m not sure Should I just start from like, the first year, I’ll try to make, Chris Seiter 00:32it was literally about to ask you like, how should we tackle this? I think maybe just going back to the very beginning with the very first success story, and then kind of taking us through that first. Nina 00:44So my first ERP, we dated for like, a year and a half, and things were great. And then out of nowhere, he kind of had like a commitment issue. He freaked out a little bit on me. And what space? Chris Seiter 00:56Hmm, how long did you? Nina 00:59Yeah, or like a year and a half? Okay. Chris Seiter 01:04What space after a year and a half? Nina 01:06Yeah. And then like, like a year and six months. And then he got a little bit scared of a commitment. He needed time for himself and his hobbies. He’s just like those guys that have a million things going on at once. And he had space. And he kind of wanted a break. And I said, I don’t do breaks, you’re either in or you’re out. So I was pretty determined in that sense. I’m not going to stand in limbo. So he said, Well, I need space. And I said, Okay, we’re done. I was a little drastic. And he freaked out a little bit on me. But we still broke, we broke up. And I didn’t, but I still obviously loved him. I didn’t want to end things. But I wanted him to be sure. So that’s when I looked online ways to get your boyfriend back. And then that’s how I found ERP. But I didn’t join the group or anything. I just listened to the podcast. And I found out about NC, no contact and this whole process of working on yourself and giving it space, the situation the relationship him. So I follow through it. I did 30 days. But the thing is that he reached out to me, like consistently, he would text me he would call me well, he didn’t call me right away, he would just text. And I wanted to respond. But the program said not to. So I didn’t. And it was hard because he was pursuing me a lot. Like I want to talk I want to know how you’re feeling I miss you. I didn’t want to break up I wanted to break. But I stuck to no contact. And then after 30 days, he called me. And I didn’t pick up. Because I mean I still wanted to do more. I didn’t just want to call it wasn’t gonna be that easy. And then he sent me a message saying, Hey, can you pick up the phone? Because I want to get together with you to talk because I want to get back with you. It was very straightforward. So I was like, Okay, that was fine. I can I can Yeah. Right. And it was, I mean, he pursued me for like a month. And I was like, Well, okay, so I gave in, we talked it out. When we got back together, then COVID happened, and we realized we weren’t a good match. So we broke up and I didn’t pursue him anymore, but it worked the first time. Chris Seiter 03:04So basically, what you’re telling me is all you really did was a 30 day No Contact Rule. And that Yeah, didn’t come back. Yeah, that’s amazing. But Nina 03:13yeah, but the thing is that usually people don’t do no contact, like it’s it’s easy to fall back into the Oh, okay. Let’s talk about it again. And again. What like, what did we do wrong? How can we fix it like, it’s normal, everyone wants to talk it out and see if you can figure it out by talking more about it. But sometimes you don’t have to talk, you have to let the other person figure out what they want on their own. So I’m definitely a fixer. Like, if problems happen, I want to talk about it. And I want to fix it now. But no contact forced me to let him really make up his mind. And he did. So it worked. So then, two years later, I have my current ERP. And the relationship was very healthy. I’m from South America, and he’s also from a neighboring country in South America. So we have the Latin American culture in the sense that we speak Spanglish to each other and it’s great. And then we reached the year we had a very healthy relationship, no really big problems. And he freaked out another one with commitment issues, which I seem to pick without realizing Chris Seiter 04:19was there was there like Okay, so this is interesting to me. You have two guys, both of what you got back, both of which are starting to pull back around the same time, you know, like a year and a half of the first one a year. Yeah. Second one. Was there. Like, were you trying to push for a bigger commitment, like moving in together getting married? Things like that? Oh, actually, Nina 04:40not at all. I am old now. I don’t know if it’s relevant. I’m 31 back with my other europei I was 2827. But I never really pursued any type of bigger commitment. Obviously, I would like to get married at one at some point, but I was never pushing for that or living together. I’ve always been very independent. But I think, I don’t know, maybe they can sense that I’m more ready in a way. That’s what, that’s what my europei from now told me. That’s why he’s kind of Chris Seiter 05:08like it was just like a inherent feeling that like, Oh, she’s more ready two years. Okay. 2129 You said you’re 31? I’m 31 Nina 05:20I mean, there’s still a big difference. I felt different at 29. Chris Seiter 05:24I mean, when I turned 30, my whole body broke down. So that’s how I knew I was. Nina 05:29One has to go to bed at 1030. And I’m already hungover the next day. It’s It’s terrible. Yeah. Chris Seiter 05:36But okay, so commitment issues from the current ex boyfriend. Does he immediately break up with you? How does that work? You said, You’re a fixer. Nina 05:47Weird, because last last year, which is our main year together, we traveled to Europe two times I went to visit his country two times, he came to visit mine. And we both live in New York. So it was it was big moves. And we were always great visiting each other and like, it was never a problem. And then last year around like Halloween, he told me he wanted to go to go back home to his country for the summer as in like our winter because he’s remote and I’m not. And he’s like, I want to go back and work there. And I said, Well, I can’t because I’m not remote anymore. And he said, Okay, well, I’m gonna go. And I was like, What? What do you mean, you used to have you bought a ticket, or you just bought a ticket so clearly had Chris Seiter 06:28been on his mind without not assaulting you at all just kind of sprung it? Yep. Nina 06:32He’s like, I’m gonna go to Argentina. Oops, the country, whatever. Chris Seiter 06:36You do Latin American country. Well, yeah, we’ll have to tag this. Yeah. I told you, I told you need to happen. Well, so Nina 06:50he got a ticket. I was in shock. And I was angry. I because he did this out of nowhere. I was like, You should discuss this for a couple. And then he’s like, Yeah, about that. I feel like you’re in a different stage in your life you want, I feel that you are ready. And if things go well, in a few years, you would expect the ring or marriage. And I’m not ready for that. I always imagined myself settling down at 38, which would mean I’m 40. And yeah, I was like, what, and I never discussed this. And he’s like, and I’m just scared because I feel like you’re ready. And I just I’m not I’m not ready to plan my life of someone. I just want to do what I want to do. I was like, Okay, why didn’t you ever tell me this before? He’s like, I don’t know. I never really realized until now, because I don’t know. It just all. It was little things that just kept packing up until he just exploded and he bought a ticket home. And he’s like, I’m leaving in two weeks. And I was like, wow. And he’s like, I have doubts. And I said, Okay, well, I mean, I was shocked. I really thought this was it for me. Because we had a very healthy relationship. And I went, I remember reading back in ERP, I was like, you don’t nag you accept that? And I said, Okay, you want to go you have doubts. You can go, obviously, it was really hard. We cried. We both sad because he was still like, I love you. But I have so many doubts. And I feel like I can’t be with someone when I have doubts. It was hard. And so we were still together for those two weeks. It was weird and miserable, because I would have like crying attacks randomly during the day. And then the data he left we say goodbye. And that was it. And I stuck to no contact. But days again to reach out. Which he didn’t at all. Ah, Chris Seiter 08:23so you did it. Was it a 30 day no contact that you did? Nina 08:2730 days? Yes. Chris Seiter 08:2930 days. Okay, but this time, like the very first X, he did not reach out at all Nina 08:34at all zero. So I was like, wow, does this mean something so I was comparing I couldn’t help it. Because I had done this before. But the other guy was texting me and texting calling. And this one was zero, like nothing. So it freaked me out a little bit. But I was like, It’s okay. I don’t I don’t know what he’s doing. It’s fine. It’s better with no contact is figuring himself out. He told me he was gonna get therapy. I was like, Okay, maybe you will maybe it’s all talk, but I had a little bit of hope. So yeah, the first 30 Days came by, and well, this aro is going to be a little bit related to it’s gonna give me a way. But whatever, it’s fine. So, um, the thing is that for the for the 30 days that ended it was the World Cup. And his and I had like a bet. Chris Seiter 09:25One of the team was in, in that world cup. Not saying any zoom. Yeah, as a fan feeling. What are the two teams? Nina 09:35Yeah, one of the two teams, I was like, if his team wins, I’m going to text them because it matches the time. Yeah. And I’ll just say like, congratulations, because he’s a big soccer player. He’s like diehard fans. So yeah, it’s gonna be important for him. So his team won. I’m not saying who it is, but you know, Chris Seiter 09:52yeah. Or what stage of The World Cup it could have been early stage or late stage. We don’t know. You know, Nina 09:58we don’t know. So whatever the point is that they want his team, and I reached out, and he was like, wow, I he said, I was hoping that you would text me today. It’s one of the happiest days of my life. And now all I could do was think of you I was expecting that positivity. I was shocked. We hadn’t spoken in 30 days, I was like screaming in my room. I was like, wow, I would never have expected that. And I just responded like, I hope you have a great day celebrating with your country. So that’s it done. But yeah, that was my first row. I didn’t want to do another one. So soon, because I knew that he would be gone in this country for like four months. And I didn’t want to pressure. I was like, I know he’s very set on his ideas I didn’t want to be chasing around them. 30 days seemed like too little to start, like building rapport and start talking to each other. So then the holidays came, and it was hard because I was I knew he wouldn’t reach out, but I had a little bit of hope. Or you didn’t. I was miserable Christmas to reach out. New Year’s he didn’t either. It was so sad. I remember texting the Facebook group. And I was like, I’m so miserable like I’m but it helps you know that the Facebook group helps so much. I think that’s what got me through it. Besides your podcasts, which I would listen to, at first, the first few weeks, like non stop in my work, because I needed someone to talk me through it. Yeah. Chris Seiter 11:22So they know who you are a full circle, listen Nina 11:24to music. Yeah, you can’t listen to music. I can’t listen to anything else. So I just needed someone to talk to me about like, getting over this or what he’s thinking. So the products was the first step and then the face. And then in January, I went home for a little bit for like two weeks. And I thought okay, now I’m going to do my second Auro. And since we had visited this place in my country with him, I decided to send them some photos. Chris Seiter 11:50That’s a good move. I like that one. Yeah, Nina 11:52I know, I know, the first reached outs are supposed to be about like advice or something like that. But I didn’t want to go there because I thought it felt a little Chris Seiter 12:01personalized in your situation. So the first one is like the diehard fandom, which like, okay, so I’ll try not to put the teaching hat on here too much. But basically, like, one of the tenants of like the first reach outs is always engaging them in an interest that they have. And you kind of did right? You did that right moment when he was at a high point. And then the second reach out seems to be more of an emotional nature type text. Yep, I’m assuming like, the pictures were places you and him went together and had good memories. Yeah. Or, Nina 12:34like, for us, it was like blueberries because he loves blueberries. And we want them to like the last time so I sent them a photo of the blueberries. And I was like, Look what I found on news like wow, like, it’s unbelievable. He always responded very fast, which I liked. And it was very engaging, asking me questions, like, I tried to keep it short. Like, look how beautiful and you’d be like, how are you how’s your family how’s work. And I would just, you know, put a stop to it. And it was hard because I didn’t want to talk. But I remember about having to do an accent. So after a few exchanges, I’d be like, Well, I’m gonna go to the lake. I have no signal by and then I just put my phone in airplane mode. Chris Seiter 13:11Oh, that’s amazing. You know, the one thing that’s already striking me is really interesting about your situation is you are really patient. And that is a rare, rare thing in in this kind of an industry because most people are really anxious, driven. But you actually had the patience to wait until the right moment to text him. And then when you did get him and things were going well, you did the one thing that’s probably the hardest thing is as the end the conversation when it was kind of at that point, and it seems like you did Nina 13:44it is it’s hard. The thing is that for me, I know a lot of people were stressing out about NC and do we say that in a Facebook group? But I don’t, I don’t. So I didn’t suffer through that. For me. The anxiety points were texting him. I hated it. I hated texting because I didn’t know if he would respond. I hated being at his mercy. Like, what if he does Chris Seiter 14:05not? Control? Exactly. Nina 14:07So for me, no contact was easy. I’m like, Oh, I’m ignoring him. I mean, I’m in power. And then the second that I had to reach out every time I felt that was losing control. So I hated the anxiet…

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Success Story: How One Woman Got An Ex Back Who Ghosted Her Apr 18, 2023

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Today we have another success story hitting the presses. I’d like to introduce you to Stacia! She has one of the more interesting situations I’ve encountered. Her ex literally ghosted her and when I say ghosted I’m not doing it with “air quotes.” I mean, he straight up ghosted her out of the blue with no explanation for two months. Here’s some of the things we touched on in this interview, Stacia’s story (from start to finish) How she got back on speaking terms with her ex The one thing she did to get through the contentious time Our shared love of running Dealing with death during a breakup What it was like when he was away from her What she believe is the key to her success What Are Your Chances of Getting Your Ex Boyfriend Back? Take the quiz Interview Transcript Chris Seiter 00:02All right. Well, today we have another success story with someone with perhaps the most unique name imaginable. This is Stacia, which is kind of a mix between Stacey and Alicia put together. But yeah, she’s got one of the more interesting success stories. I kind of don’t know much other than a few briefing points that I’ve been given. So I’m just going to be exploring as you’re listening. But thank you so much for coming on. And doing this. Stacia. Stacia 00:32Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Chris Seiter 00:35All right. Let’s go back to the Dark Ages. Let’s let’s let’s go back to the sad stuff. Can you take me back to before you found the program before you entered into the community breakup? Just catch me up to it. Your floor is yours. Stacia 00:51Okay. Um, I had had our son, Chris Seiter 00:56July of 2020. Obviously, that was just a horrible time anyway. Um, because I was like, in the midst of it, too. Stacia 01:03It was it just was one of those like, Chris Seiter 01:06so you gave birth at the hospital during the day, they make you wear a mask? Because my wife was not wearing a mask. She was in a lot of pain when Stacia 01:16it didn’t make me but I had friends at other hospitals that did and I Chris Seiter 01:20was terrified. Yes, well, you made it through. I did. And unfortunately, we’re about to hit with something even worse. Stacia 01:30He was there through the birth. He took a new job that started like, right, as soon as the school year started, so we were both like in education. And the new job didn’t really pan out, well, he’s a coach, so they let him go. before the school year was even halfway done, he knew that he was gonna have to look for a new job. And so he kind of went down depressive hole. There was no pulling him back in new dad and just lost a job. And he just kind of shut down. He disappeared, changed his number. I didn’t hear from him for two months until I was served with custody paperwork for our son at my friend door. Chris Seiter 02:12And were you guys married? engaged at the time? So? Yes, yes. So you’re engaged but not officially married yet? Right? Do you kind of think, like, okay, new. So, you mentioned you have other children as well? Or at least off camera? Were they all his? Or was it just this one? Stacia 02:37No, man, two daughters was my ex husband, and it was his Chris Seiter 02:42first child. So we have a first child for new time dad, which is pretty scary. I can attest to that. And then getting laid off all happening at once, not to mention during COVID and everything. And you think that’s like you kind of skipped over what I feel like it’s an important thing. So he just leaves no explanation. Did he block you? Did you did you try to reach out to try to figure out what the heck is going on? Stacia 03:09I did. It was May 22. I only remember that because it was my grandmother’s birthday. And I was waiting for him to come celebrate with us. And he said that he was on his way. And I never heard from him again for two months. He shut down his number obviously tried reaching out but his phone number was gone. And he was not at the address that he had, you know previously live because he had moved into like a rental for the new job that he had taken that I did not know about. So he’s off the grid. Completely Mia, he did not have social media, any sort of contact at all. Chris Seiter 03:48Okay, this this is a good story. We don’t really get we don’t really get like a successor that comes on that as this far. Like, I don’t know if blocked is the correct word to say it was like cut out and like ghosted to the extreme. Had did this happen before the birth of the child her Stacia 04:12after, after our son was almost one. Okay. Chris Seiter 04:17So he had been a new dad for almost like 1112 months. Yes. So that 1112 month period was were there any like signs leading up to this at all? Did you notice anything? Stacia 04:34Yes. He was obviously avoidant, and he would pull away. He started staying with his parents, because where they lived was much closer to his work like 10 minutes as opposed to 45 and they’re much they’re much older and in really bad health. I mean, they’ve only given us dad like another two months possibly to live so it’s been hard with that situation going on to on top of everything else. I Um, that he started staying over there. And I would notice that he would cut his phone off as soon as you would get back from either, you know, practice or work or whatever it was. And he would not answer were call me back until the next morning. And I could just tell he was pulling back. He didn’t seem as interested in coming around and seeing the baby. Even had convinced himself that there was a possibility that it wasn’t his child and had served me with like DNA paperwork to later when we find Chris Seiter 05:32out the first time I’ve heard that one. Unfortunately, I have heard that one before. Stacia 05:37Yes, it was it was mortifying, because I mean, I’ve never stepped out of our relationship. So understand his whatever was going on in his head at the time, probably chemically imbalanced. But yeah, he he just went off the grid, and did not I did not hear a word from him until I had paperwork on my front door, stating that he wanted to go to court for a DNA test and custody pending the DNA test. Chris Seiter 06:06Geez, it’s always really difficult when you hear stuff like this, because, you know, the the innocent, that’s getting hurt is really the kid. Fortunately, I mean, 11 months old, you’re not going to really remember too much of that rocky time in the life. Okay, so he serves you these papers. He doesn’t think the kid is is he wants to go to the DNA test court thing? What is your next step? Do you go to a lawyer do you like? Or do you just go to Google and fix something? I don’t know. Stacia 06:43I did have an attorney for my, for my divorce for my ex husband. So I just went to him. He was all I knew. And I handed him the paperwork. And he was like, Okay, I mean, he was just as in shock as everyone else was. And he got in touch with his attorney. But there was still no getting in touch with my eggs. There was like, still this gap there. And even with the DNA tests, like I could not get in touch with him to schedule it. And of course, I would email my attorney and he would email back like, this is something y’all need to get together about. And I was like, Well, I can’t get in touch with him. So can you ask his attorney to please let him know that you need do Chris Seiter 07:24number? You didn’t even have like an email or anything like that? No, I did not. Who doesn’t have an email nowadays, he had Stacia 07:34stopped using his previous like, went from like Gmail to Outlook or something like that. changed it so that I can get in touch with an old account that he wasn’t checking it. That I know of? Chris Seiter 07:46Yeah. So very hardcore, dismissive, avoidant tendencies here. All right. So your lawyer basically helps in that weird regard to get in touch? I’m assuming? Stacia 08:02Yes. And no, I love my attorney. But he was just kind of more like, he’s very much a dad, too. And he didn’t understand the situation. He was like, but he’s the one that wanted this. So why is he being difficult to work with? And he just, he took like, those two months off to just disappear, and I guess, find himself or whatever it was, or hit rock bottom, whatever he went through during that time. Chris Seiter 08:27So does he eventually reach back out to you? He Stacia 08:30does, um, only because I had a friend who was she was crazy. They called the new school that they found he was at and pretended to have a son that was interested in football. And he called her back on his personal cell. So I called his cell and reached out, and I guess I probably shouldn’t have done that and let him come to me. But that kind of got the ball rolling. And I just kept it very nonchalant. Like, hey, you know, we need to get together over this DNA test and our court, you know, you’ve served me papers, so we need to figure this out. Chris Seiter 09:07You did. You did need to figure that out. Like legitimately, you’re in a lot different of a situation than the average person who’s just trying to like get their ex back. You know, you haven’t. You were engaged. You’re sharing a child together. He’s not talking to you. He just serves you papers, your lawyers doesn’t seem to be able to get them on the phone for you. It seems just incredibly difficult. And what you’re saying is you had to have the trusty old friend go undercover for you to cultivate the phone number and then you you basically just call it out of the blue. Stacia 09:43I did, I was at work and I I blocked my number. He knew it by heart, so I knew he wouldn’t pick up and he answered, and as soon as he heard my voice, he was like, oh, no, but he was like, I was gonna call you sooner or later. Okay, well and easily sooner because we’ve got to get this ball rolling. We’ve got to figure out something for our child. Chris Seiter 10:06Okay, so I’m assuming he responds kind of okay to that that phone call before things. Like, what happens next? Are you do you eventually get back on speaking terms with him? Or is there is a little slow going? Stacia 10:22It was a slow roll at first it was very, you know, textbook like, this is what we need to do for our son. And then, of course, some of those phone calls, he would just hang on a little bit longer and ask a few more questions and get a little more personal, just to kind of feel for where I was. He did admit later to stalking my Instagram during that time, even though he did not have an Instagram. Oh, yes. Chris Seiter 10:49So everyone listening who doesn’t believe me? When I say exes stock when they don’t have social media. Stacia is helping us here. Stacia 10:57Yes, I hate and he has none. None at all. And I made it public like you had recommended. And I said, okay, like, I’ll try it. And sure enough, he didn’t tell me that and probably till three months ago. And so I had no idea. But he had gone and looked on and seen some fun that I was having met summer with friends smiling, laughing. And so he started getting curious and questioning what I was up to. Chris Seiter 11:24I love that. Right. So at some point, when you guys are kind of getting back on speaking terms, it becomes less about the court date and more maybe more generalized record building? And is that is it at that point where you start thinking, I want to repair this, I don’t want to go to court and kind of Yeah, have a break? Stacia 11:46I did. And he felt the same. But you know, with the ball rolling, and we went ahead through with the DNA test. And of course, no surprise, it was his child. And once he saw that, Chris Seiter 11:58like an episode of Jerry Springer, or something, you know, like, You are the father. Stacia 12:06That’s what I said the whole time. But, you know, we kind of laugh about it and laughed about it, then too, I was like, I mean, if this helps with your, you know, peace of mind. Chris Seiter 12:16You’re an amazing woman, I’ll tell you that, because most women are not going to be thinking that he’s so mad. You know, Stacia 12:24it was but I tried to handle it, because I had already found the group at this point. So I tried to handle it a little bit better. And like, I found the group, right after the paperwork was served, really, I think it was the next morning and I was just at rock bottom. And I was online looking for, you know, what do I do? How do I fix this, and I found your program. And I got on it. And I was like, okay, like, this sounds like it could be for me. And I started saying, you know, you say like, build on your Trinity and work on yourself. And I’d already consider going back to school for my doctorate. But like that was kind of my sign. And I just contacted my university and got started. And now I’m halfway through that. So I’m really proud of myself on that. We’re talking Chris Seiter 13:14to a doctor here in a couple of years. Actually, I know a little bit about that my brother, he’s about to get his doctorate history or something. But I told him when he’s a doctor, I’m gonna come to his class and just heckle him. Of course, I’ll get thrown out of the university when I do it. But Stacia 13:35evidently, I’m I went back for psychology, my Bachelor’s, I started at Auburn, working towards a psychology degree. And then I went for my master’s in early childhood Elementary Ed. Just because I was my ex husband was Army and it was a fast course like an 11 month program. And I love children. I love working with children that have always just felt really strongly compelled to go back for psychology. And I’ve been debating for about six, seven years, whether or not I should just go for it. And I mean, once I was right there starting the program and saying, you know, I was like, I’ve just got to go for it. And it’s um, yeah, Chris Seiter 14:21well, I think I think that’s probably the most amazing part because not only are you going through this really contentious time, but you actually do the one thing so like most people when they go through the contentious time they get really consumed by it. Like that’s all they think about. I’m sure you had your bouts of that. But you also had an a foresight to be like, You know what, I’m going to invest in myself. How, how do you do that? What’s your secret? Stacia 14:49I had a lot of crass of I think I hit rock bottom. I cried for maybe three or four days. And then I just woke up one day kind of angry and ready to just get my life fit together and do all of the things. We had actually always planned on taking a trip down Route 66. So I got my best friend and my kids and I loaded up my car and we went down Route 66. And it was just one of those, like, spur of the moment, I started in Chicago, and I drove through the night, just went, yeah. I wanted to just do all the things and I was like, I might as well, you know, I’ll everything that I’ve wanted to do I need to stop putting off and just go for it. Chris Seiter 15:31Well, also, I think, weirdly enough, just looking at your situation, what I feel like helped you the most was the fact that you couldn’t contact him. So you almost had no choice but to do the things that you know, the Trinity work that I always talk about, that everyone in the group always talks about. You just kind of did it because you didn’t have the opportunity to being like, oh, let’s break no contact? No, like, what’s he up to? You wanted to but you had no way of getting in touch. You had to have a friend basically pretend, you know. So. Yeah. So that’s, that’s kind of amazing. And I feel like that maybe your superpower that you’re able to overcome that through the action of just sort of investing in yourself and investing in your own mental health? And I’m sure it didn’t feel like it was an overnight, like, Oh, I’m fixed, like I feel better. Now. Can you talk a little bit about your process and how your thoughts are during that time, and like how long it took for you to feel like you were kind of leveled out. Stacia 16:33Overall, I would say about three months to l…

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Success Story: He Said “I Don’t Feel In Love With You” And Then Came Back Apr 12, 2023

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I had the pleasure of interviewing Kelsey who had a pretty intriguing breakup story. Basically her ex gave her the whole, “I have a lot of love for you but I’m not IN love with you.” So, for those of you who have ever had an ex say that or, “I’m not sure I see a future together with you” Then you’ll want to pay attention to Kelsey’s success story. Summary Of Our Conversation Kelsey’s Personal Story How She Found Out About The Program The End Of The No Contact Rule The Food Delivery Aspect Of The Breakup How The Breakup Changed Their Relationship How She Got Her Ex Back The Issue Of Codependence How To Be Content With Not Getting Your Ex Back Skipping The Value Ladder Interview Transcript Chris Seiter 00:02All right, today we have another success story. This is Kelsey. So thank you so much for coming on. First off and doing this, Kelsey. Kelsey 00:11Thank you for having me. Chris Seiter 00:12All right, so let’s kind of roll back time and go back to the beginning. Why don’t you give us kind of like a breakdown of of your situation? Okay, Kelsey 00:23yeah. So this started last year of 2022. And me and my ERP ex, at the time, were together for about two and a half years. And so we broke up on February 1. And pretty much like I was pretty, really confused at what the reason was the time and obviously, I was in a very emotional state. And I wanted to know why. And the only answers that I kept getting were like, Oh, I just, I have a lot of love for you. But I don’t feel in love with you, those type of things. And like, I don’t really see a future with you anymore. And so I was just like, panicking on the inside. And I went home after the breakup, and I tried to look up things online, just like some tips on how to get your exes back and stuff like that. And then I came across the ERP, the Ex Recovery Program. And I thought it was so interesting, because the layout was so different than other websites that I looked at. And it was actually really easy to navigate as well. And it showed a lot of the success stories on the page. And I kept reading that and, and it gave me hope. And I was like, maybe I can check this out and see if it works. So I signed up for that I took the quiz that it has on the website, and I think I got I think it was 80% something like that. Chris Seiter 02:02Turns out it was a it was 100%. Kelsey 02:07Exactly, sorry to interrupt. Oh, no, no, that’s fine. But yeah, it gave me a lot of hope that it would work out. So I was like, why not, I don’t have anything else really to do. Because it was I had like spring break coming up at the time, too. So I had all this time to just do all this research and stuff. So one thing too was that I didn’t want to talk too much about it with my close friends, because I know that they have very strong opinions of like me getting hurt. And obviously they don’t want that to happen. But at the same time, I still wanted to get him back because I knew that there was something special. And that’s something that nobody else could understand other than me. And so I was just starting the program. And I think I did a 30 day no contact, I tried that. First, I was still very new to it. And I was like I don’t know if I’m doing this right at all. And one thing that was different from a lot of the other stories that I saw was that I would actually see him every week, like once a week at church. So it was a lot harder for me, Chris Seiter 03:23even though it’s kind of like a limited no call. Yeah, type situation. Yeah, Kelsey 03:28yeah, exactly. And so I was just trying to figure out how to deal with that, because it was definitely pretty difficult seeing him and having all these emotions. And I actually set up an appointment with Anna, who used to be part of the program. And I had, I think it was an hour appointment. And she was talking to me about it. And she gave me this whole plan. And she suggested that I do a 45 day limited no contact. And basically, the value chain was very different for me because of that. And so like there was no display starting off with like texting, and then phone calls and stuff like it was a little different because I already see him in person. So I started off with just like the smiling and the waving. At first he avoided me at all costs. And that made me feel even worse. And it was really hard at the time. But I had faith in the program. And I had actually two battle buddies that I talked to at the same time, which helped me a lot. And I really appreciate the Facebook group for the program. And I’m still in it and I love just looking at other people’s stories and just reading what they’re going through as well because I totally understand now. And so it really helps me talking to other people going through the same situation. And so yeah, we started off like smiling and waving and Let it got to like saying hi to each other. And then he, oh, yeah, in the, in the 30 day no contact. Before I talked to Anna, he would he reached out to me like, I think it was four days into the no contact. But I knew that I couldn’t respond, because obviously I not supposed to contact him at all. So I didn’t, and I, I just saw the message. And then he messaged me like three other times after that. And I was really surprised, because I didn’t think he would message me at all. So that happened. And then when it got to the end of the no contact period, I replied, I can’t quite remember what I said. But it was just a short reply. Like, I think he asked me how I was doing. And I kept it neutral. And I was like, I’m good. How are you? Something like that. And and then he was a lot different than I planned, because he asked to meet up and just talk about what happened and how things were. I agreed to meeting up with him. But I was really cautious about talking about the relationship, because I know that when I watched your videos before, I think in some of them, you advised us to like, try to avoid talking about the relationship. And so if he brought it up himself, like I would just answer him was like a short answer, but I would kind of change the topic, redirect it to something else. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think he noticed that a lot. Because he just kept asking more deeper questions like, oh, because I never, I never knew if he ever, like thought about me, because he kept ignoring me all the time. I never knew how he felt. I thought he was like, completely over me. And then he would bring it up himself and be like, oh, yeah, I watched I always watch your stories. And I saw you went to this place. And I was like, Oh, I didn’t know you paid attention to that. But it really proves that they do pay attention when you post something online. It may seem like they’re not looking, but I feel like they right. Chris Seiter 07:20I try to tell people in the group that all the time and it’s like, in one ear out the other. They don’t really believe me, but having you come on and say it. Yeah, I think that’ll be helpful for them. Kelsey 07:32Oh, for sure. I’ve like I 100% thought he did not care what I was posting. So to hear him say like, oh, yeah, I remember. And he would remember little details to like, I remember you went to this park. And so I was really amazed. And I was like, Oh, wow, he actually pays attention to my stories. So yeah, that was really great. No, and after that we would. So he over here, so I live in Vancouver, BC in Canada. And so like it’s been a really big thing with food deliveries and stuff with like, us, like skip the dishes. Uber Eats. I don’t know if you’ve heard of that. I don’t know what it’s like. Yeah, I Chris Seiter 08:15mean, unfortunately, I feel like I live on that much. I’ve had to cut back. Yeah, yeah. DoorDash is pretty popular here. Not so much. Uber Eats DoorDash GrubHub. Okay, okay. Yeah, guys have that up there. I’m sure, right. Kelsey 08:30Yes. Yeah, we do. Yeah. So with the food deliveries. I thought there were definitely like times where it was on and off when I would see him and he would be the complete opposite of like, being really happy to see me he’d look like kind of depressed. And he would tell me Oh, I don’t think we should hang out or be friends or something like that. And I was like, Chris Seiter 08:55hot and cold. Yes. Yeah. Go from like meeting you in person saying like, Oh, I’m watching your stories to just sort of like giving you the brush back. Kelsey 09:05Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it was so annoying at times, because I was like, I don’t know where this is going. But I have to like respect what he’s asking. So I don’t want to push too much. So can Chris Seiter 09:18can ask a clarifying question. Yeah, yeah. Where? Where does the food delivery aspect come in? Kelsey 09:24Oh, yeah. I was just getting to that. So he so he would be like, Oh, I don’t want to hang out as friends or anything like that. But he would find a way to hang out with me somehow. And that’s where the food delivery would come in. Because he would be like, Oh, I think we could deliver food together and it came out of nowhere. Because, ya know, it was even work. I know. It was so weird because, yeah, because he would usually deliver food like in his spare time on his scooter. But like he wanted to deliver food with me in my cars. I see. Okay, Chris Seiter 10:05so he works for like a DoorDash GrubHub Uber Eats type thing. And he would invite you along to as you go on the runs. Ah, yeah. Okay. Now it makes sense. Kelsey 10:17Yeah. And at first I was like, oh, maybe he’s just being friendly. But I would like talk to my battle buddies. And they would be like, No, I think he just wants to spend more time with you. Because it wasn’t just one time. Like, he would always ask, Oh, let’s let’s deliver this day. And then he would want to always meet up like every single day. And there would be a point where I’d have to be like, no, because I don’t want him to get used to me being available all the time. So yeah, so but it was really interesting, because he would always be like, Oh, I don’t think we should hang out. And then he would always find a way to, to hang out somehow, like, food delivery. So yeah, it was really, it was really weird. But it was really interesting, too, at the same time. It’s like he was very hot and cold, like you said. But then eventually, we we started hanging out more. And there were a lot more positive interactions. And he even told me because I actually, I think, was it I’m not sure if it was the book, was it? I’m not sure. But I downloaded something of becoming UG. I forgot what that stood for. But I Oh, yes. Yes. That ungettable Yeah. And so I remember, I downloaded that. And I kept reading that every single day. And like, just doing new things on my own. And I hung out with my friends so much, that was probably the most I’ve ever hung out with them. But when I saw him, he would actually tell me, oh, like, I noticed, you’re like a completely different person. And it’s so cool. So I was like, Oh, wow, I didn’t. That’s amazing that he’s noticing these changes, and I didn’t even bring it up myself. Chris Seiter 12:04You were posting on on social media, though. Kelsey 12:08Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I would just like post different places of like, where I was going, and whenever I was out with friends, and apparently he noticed that a lot. So he would bring that up. And he would, and like, I started going to the gym as well. And he would point that out as well, like, oh, I can see you’re becoming so fit and so healthy. And then I feel like he definitely at the beginning of the breakup, I saw, he was really trying hard to look good. Like you started going to the gym every single day. And then after about a month after the breakup, he looked like he became so depressed. And I feel like it’s so related to the videos that you’ve made, where the breakups hit them harder, like later on. And it just that it really proved that to me like it for like for girls. It’s so different because we go through it right away. And I, I still think that he was in a fearful avoidant, because of like, he like he kept pushing me away. And then he still wanted to hang out with me. And so like, it was really interesting. It was hard to because it like it felt like there was no progress at all some at some points. But then it started picking up a lot more and I think it was in late May. So I think that’s, I think that’s four months or Chris Seiter 13:43Yeah, February. March. Yeah. But three and a half months, probably three, Kelsey 13:48yeah, three and a half months, something like that. So yeah. So that’s when we started hanging out more. And then we actually decided to go on this trip together to the island, which is not to it’s like an hour ferry ride. Because we used to go to the island before and he thought that it would be something fun. So I just agreed to going on the trip to see how things would be if it was just us. So it ended up being one of the best trips that I’ve been on. And I feel like our relationship now is so different from before because I know that before in our previous relationship, I know that I was very clingy. And I can admit that I was very clingy. And I was very dependent on him. And I think he saw that as well. So I would say that the breakup really taught me a lot of things and like finding the program and reading the UG stuff and just talking with other people going through similar things has helped me so much because I feel like the program is not now necessarily to get your ex back, but it’s to like find find yourself and like, find your self confidence. And while you do that, like it’s a bonus to get them back. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was really nice. Chris Seiter 15:19So, at this point, you’re, I mean, your story is kind of interesting. So you are, let me just kind of summarize this far, you originally tried to do a 30 day No Contact Rule way back at the beginning. But that shifts into a 45 day no contact, when that 45 days is up, he asks you to see him, you obviously see each other. And then he kind of starts, you know, being a little hot and cold, which is kind of typical after a breakup and invite you on for the Uber Eats, drive along, which is kind of funny. And then it kind of it kind of grows from there and eventually coalesces into this trip. Yeah, where which I guess can be kind of considered more of a romantic type environment, you’re going to an island together, just the two of you. It’s a romantic type thing. At any point, you’re acting like a couple here, but Oh, yeah. You haven’t really gotten the confirmation or had the commitment talk just yet. Kelsey 16:21Yes. So on that trip, actually, it came up. Because I don’t know I wanted clarity for myself, because I didn’t want to be stuck in this position where, like, we were acting like a couple, but we weren’t a couple because that was ultimately the goal. So I wanted to bring that up really briefly. And he was very open to talk about it, too. Like he was actually getting really deep into it. And he was telling me how he enjoys being around me. And he realizes that he’s like he’s tried to, that’s another thing I didn’t add like he was he tried to talk to like a, like another girl from his work or something. And that didn’t work. Chris Seiter 17:07greener. He sort of realized, Oh, I had Kelsey. Kelsey 17:12Yeah, yeah, exactly. So he was like, I just know that we were together for a reason before. And he and he admitted, like even today, he he felt he felt like he was in denial a lot of the time. And he just didn’t want to, he just didn’t want to admit it to himself. And I didn’t even ask him about that, too. You just said that to me. So. Chris Seiter 17:39So do you mind if I ask you a few questions, because it’s interesting. I had a coaching call with a woman last Friday, and she’s really close to getting your ex back. Like, okay, yeah, like super. But the one thing is they’re basically doing everything No, intimacy row, you know, they’re not crossing the…

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Success Story: A Deep Look At An On Again/Off Again Relationship Apr 06, 2023

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Today’s success story is going to be unique. Avid listeners of the podcast will have probably heard me say, On again/off again relationships are among the easiest situations to succeed in but one of the hardest situations to keep together Well, my interview with Kimberly today kind of proves this as she takes us through what it’s like to be in one of these situations. So, what starts as a success story kind of ends up as a pseudo coaching session by the end as we go over how to prevent an “off again” phase from happening. Summary Here’s a quick summary of our conversation: The breakup and how she got her ex back Rekindling the relationship after the breakup Going over the factors that drew him back in The on again/off again experience Setting boundaries Mystery vs. stability Planning a spontaneous family outing The importance of being ungettable Interview Transcript Chris Seiter 00:02All right, today we have a success story interview with Kimberly. Kimberly ended up. I don’t know how we found you. Exactly. I think my wife found you instead of the interview between us. Yes, she did. Okay, so somehow my wife found Kimberly. So I’m just for the state of honesty here. I’m coming into this completely blind. I don’t know anything about Kimberly success story. So that’s gonna make for an excellent interview. But I just wanted to say thank you so much for coming on and doing this Kimberly. No problem. I’m excited. All right, so let’s go back to the Dark Ages back when you’re going obviously, through this breakup? Can you give us a little bit of a background on the breakup and how you came into the Ex Recovery orbit? Kimberly 00:45So we broke up and it was pretty bad one. I did the netting a lot of probably for about a month before I found the program. And I was just online looking up, you know, ways I could progress myself so that I could get him back. Or ways I could, you know, it was more manipulation, trying to get him back type thing. But I found the group or found the program I paid for it joined. And then immediately, well, within like half a month, maybe within joining the group, I went into no contact, I didn’t do very well with it, it was not a very good experience for me, I will get several times Chris Seiter 01:28how many is several times Kimberly 01:31I think it was three. Oh, since I joined the program. But it was within a short period of time. And the last time that I broke it, he actually put another girl on the phone who told me that she was his girlfriend, which I later found out she was not that he just did that to get me to leave him alone. But that’s kind of put it into it for me. And I was like Okay, so I’m going to I’m going to finish my new contact and I did the Trinity. I did the calendars. I had a calendar right next to my Work calendar, and I would do all the activities I put on it every day. I actually forgot to do my reach out. It was time for my reach out. And I had drafted it, put it in the group. But I was so busy doing stuff that I just completely forgot. And then I did it. He didn’t respond. I waited the time did another one he didn’t respond. And he and so I just decided not to do it any anymore. after that. I just I went you know without moving on. Chris Seiter 02:37Gave up base. Yeah. Do you? Do you recall what the reach outs were? Were they kind of like the ERP type reach outs or did you put your own? Yes, Kimberly 02:45they were the ERP. And they were his top interest it was in regards to recording music. Because he’s a DJ or he does DJ and does music. But I didn’t know he did not at all. I don’t know if he I don’t even know if he changed his number. At the time. I didn’t even know if he changed his number because I was hard blocked everywhere. I forgot to say that I was like everywhere, like tick tock, Snapchat, everything. He bought me everywhere. So he Chris Seiter 03:15blocked you. But you still felt like you had the phone. He didn’t block you texting wise. Kimberly 03:23He did. But I thought that maybe after all that time past, it was possible that he unblocked me. So I went ahead and did my reach outs via phone. But I could tell from other places that I was heart blocked. So I didn’t do it that way. I just did it over the phone. But he didn’t respond to either one. And then within like two months, he just reappeared. He was like, Hey, how you doing? You know, like, I just disappeared for eight months. But hey, so it was just kind of interesting, because that was the first time and then we broke up again. And I kind of messed that one up. I didn’t follow the Chris Seiter 04:06let’s, let’s hit the let’s hit the brakes here for a little bit. So he he basically has you heard locked everywhere. You’re not even sure if he even got the original DJ type text messages. And then after a couple of months, he just reaches out to you and you’re able to rekindle things and get back into a relationship. Yes. Okay. And then he breaks up with you again. Kimberly 04:29Yes. And he admitted that he got my texts. We did. Okay, so we’ve got my Chris Seiter 04:35blocked on the phone, you know, we kind of assumed correctly. But did he give any insight about why he didn’t respond to the texts? Kimberly 04:45He told me that he didn’t feel like he was in a good place to talk to me at the time. I think that his life was just going downhill. And he didn’t feel adequate enough. I guess he didn’t really say that but just the way that he told me If that’s what it seemed like, and then I gave up, and he told me that he could feel that pull away because of the fact that I reached out. And he didn’t respond and I stopped reaching out. Chris Seiter 05:15Were maybe in the past you had done that just came. Kimberly 05:20In the past, I was constantly like trying to get a conversation over with with him. Chris Seiter 05:27Okay, so obviously, you’re back together, yay. And then how long does that relationship lasts before you kind of hit the off again phase Kimberly 05:34that lasted four months, the first time we lived together the second time we did not. We took it, I took it a lot slower the second time. Not in the beginning. I didn’t, but we kind of slowed it down. And he actually wanted to take it slower as well. But I don’t know if he had some things going on in his life in the background that I didn’t know about. Because one day he was just like, this is way too much for me. And again, Chris Seiter 06:02any signs at all that you kind of picked up on or what for you? Was it out of the blue? Kimberly 06:09Yeah, there were signs he started pulling away, he started not wanting to see me or canceling plans. He started not really talking as much because in the beginning, he was very much wanting to rekindle things and then he would kind of fall away. Chris Seiter 06:27How did you personally react to that? Were you did you kind of fall back into the anxious tendencies when he would pull away like that? Kimberly 06:36Sometimes I did. And sometimes I really stuck with being more secure and just let him have a space. It really depended on the issue. Like sometimes he was a little jealous about things, and then I would kind of get more anxious. But if it was just like, hey, I’m busy. I really can’t deal with this right now. I would give him a space. Chris Seiter 06:59The irony of the guy who put the fake girlfriend on the phone being jealous is funny to me. Yeah. Kimberly 07:05He’s an ironic man, for sure. Chris Seiter 07:09Okay, so basically, you’re going through another breakup, you’re kind of back to where you started again, what happens next. Kimberly 07:16I immediately when I went in, and a contact, he actually broke up with me over Facebook Messenger. And I didn’t actually get to see him. Because the first time we broke up, I physically saw him and we talked about it. But the second time, he was just completely in avoidant mode. And he just did it over text and blocked me immediately. So I didn’t try to reach out, I just left it at that. And we immediately went into no contact, did the process all over again. Did my reach outs I did to reach out, he didn’t respond. And this time, I think he changed. So it’s deja vu, right. And it’s kind of funny, because we were together eight months, the first time and apart eight months. And then we were together for months and apart for months. Chris Seiter 08:02Okay, you’re saying this guy’s got a pattern Kimberly 08:05he does. He definitely has a pattern. Um, but he didn’t reach at it and respond to either one of those, as well. And then he reached out to me within because it was added a month, no contact, and with it. So within three months, because we were apart for four months, he reached out to me from a different phone number, didn’t identify himself. And I think it was a burner phone number or like a text now phone number because I have a friend who has one of those apps that can pull it up. And it wouldn’t pull up who the owner was, while two days later, I didn’t respond to that. Two days later, he reached out again with his actual phone number and told me who he was. And then he Chris Seiter 08:51wanted to ever get some insight into why he did that. No, Kimberly 08:55I didn’t. I didn’t even ask him about it. Because I didn’t want to assume that it was him. But just the fact that he reached out two days later. Just told me it was him. So yeah. Chris Seiter 09:09He’s thinking about you for sure. So obviously, he reaches out. I’m assuming you begin to rekindle things from there. Kimberly 09:18Yes. And we are together right now. But we’re still we’re still having a lot of problems. Chris Seiter 09:27Okay, so this is interesting. So basically, you are together. How long have you been together? Kimberly 09:34We got together right after Thanksgiving. This past Thanksgiving. Chris Seiter 09:39So you’ve been together a pretty longer stint this time than last time. Yeah, the last off again face. So before we kind of go into the problem areas, I’m actually kind of curious into helping people listening to this understand what you did that You felt worked? Like? What were the factors that kept drawing him back in kept having him be the one to reach out first Do you feel made the biggest difference? Kimberly 10:10I think that giving him that space and focusing on myself, the whole idea of being ungettable is probably the biggest thing because I went skydiving, and I put that on Facebook. And I went to a concert. And I, you know, I put that on Facebook. And I think that he was watching me through that I were a no, he was watching me through that, because he knew I went skydiving when we work together. And so it’s, I really think that that’s it because he seems he’s always been the kind of guy who, like, wanted a girl who was a go getter. And that was not who I was when we first got together. And so I really worked on those things, when we broke up when I found the program. And I think that that is a big part of what drew him back in. Because the cutting and the the constantly needing reassurance type thing really is the biggest things that he would run from. But when that wasn’t what I was doing, he was coming back. Chris Seiter 11:22So it was sort of like you projecting that go getting ungettable attitude through the social media that would throw him back in. And I mean, obviously, we’re kind of also skipping a few parts here with the rekindling aspect. How did the actual texting phase meet up phase, all that stuff? Go? Did you have any special strategies or tricks or tips for anyone who’s sort of stuck in that Limbo area? Kimberly 11:52We didn’t see or I didn’t stick straight to the program in that phase. But I did take bits and pieces out of it. Like I didn’t meet up immediately. I kept him wandering on things, I took a while to respond back to texts. Chris Seiter 12:08You were like unavailable, right? Even when even when you were really available. Kimberly 12:12Right? I was really, and I’m always available. I’m a State lot. I work at home, and I’m a single mom. So I really don’t do a whole lot. But I look like a Chris Seiter 12:24single mom. I mean, I got two kids my own. And that’s like a full time gig right there on top of work. So don’t sell yourself short, you’re doing a lot. Kimberly 12:36Well, I don’t do a lot of outside of that, I guess I should say. But in my process of becoming ungettable, I started to do more adding more things to my life. And so he kind of picked up on that when we first started talking again as well, because I wasn’t I wasn’t running to his every need. I wasn’t right there. Every time he wanted to see me I was doing things for myself doing things with my friends saying no to him, so I could go hang out with my friends. That was a big thing that I changed that I think really helped him realize I had made a change. And I think that’s a big part of why we rekindled but we did move a little bit too fast the second time. And this time has probably been even faster because he’s back living here with me. So Chris Seiter 13:31he’s living so the first time you didn’t. So you’ve been sort of the on again off again, couple four to go rounds. Now you’ve kind of went around that circle twice. So the first time was a four month stint. And you felt like you move pretty fast then but you’re even faster now. Yeah. With how things have progressed. Kimberly 13:54Yeah, cuz the first time we lived together for eight months, or we didn’t live together for eight months, we were together for eight months. And we’ve lived together for two months. And then he left and we were together for for the second time. And now we’ve been together for since November. And he’s been here for two months. Chris Seiter 14:13Interesting. Okay, so do you mind if I ask who asked who? For who back out of that sort of let’s be back together conversation unfold. Kimberly 14:24Oh, he asked those times. Both times. Chris Seiter 14:29Okay. So I guess what’s interesting is, this is a classic case of the on again off again, sort of situation being kind of one of the easier situations to get an ex back in, but I guess the problems that you’re having are well, how do I stop it from being off again? Is that do I have that kind of right? Yes, definitely. Okay. So what what is like the catalyst of these, these breakups that would occur? Kimberly 14:54I think the first time it was both of us, it was the A lot of pressure from me because I am a single mom, I have a mortgage, I have a car payment, I have all these things. And he I mean, he is responsible. But he doesn’t like he doesn’t have a child, he doesn’t have, you know, he doesn’t have a mortgage, he was only paying rent somewhere, and he just doesn’t have a lot of pressure on him. And when he was staying here, I was putting that pressure on, and I think he just couldn’t handle it. And so we were fighting, and I wasn’t handling this fights properly either. Chris Seiter 15:34Well, so he’s not the biological father of the child, right? Yeah. No. Okay. So the reason I say that is I was reading this really into, or rather, I was listening. Yesterday, I had to go fill my car up for gas. And I was listening to podcasts on the way to the gas station. And I was listening to this really interesting discussion about fatherhood. And what happens to the male brain when they see their child for the first time. And there’s like, there’s something that happens with the male brain where they become less impulsive. And they’re almost because they know like, Okay, well, that child’s reliant on me. And I kind of assume, I haven’t been able to verify this, but I assume the same thing kind of happens for women. But it’s interesting, because he’s not the biological father, he still might be caught in that zone, where he’s a little bit more wants to be more spontaneous. Do you feel like that’s a correct thing? Or is he kind of one of those, stay at home stay in type introvert individuals? Or is he always wanted to go out and you’re just not able to come? Is…

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Success Story: This Woman Decided To Move On From Her Ex Now She’s With Someone Who Treats Her Right Mar 24, 2023

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Most of the time when I conduct one of my success story interviews it’s with someone who worked the program and got their ex back. But I define success with our program in multiple ways. For me, deciding NOT to get your ex back and moving on to someone else is every bit of a success as actually getting an ex back. Especially if moving on to someone else causes you to realize just how poorly your ex was treating you. Such was the case with Ellen in my success story interview with her. Not only did she move on to someone new but, She realized that her ex was a hardcore narcissist She found a life long friend in our battle buddy program She gained more confidence Listen to her story in our newest success story! Interview Transcript Chris Seiter 00:03All right, today we’re gonna be talking to a really interesting success story. This is Ellen, who ended up posting in our community last week or sometime around there. But she’s not your typical success story. She joined the program to originally get her ex back, and then decided that Well, I guess she found a better guy. But thank you so much for coming on and doing this. Thank you. So why don’t you take us back to the beginning of when you’re going through your breakup some of the emotions that your feeling and kind of what led up to you moving on and finding someone Ellen 00:42different? Okay. It was like, one year and three months ago, it wasn’t the beginning of Yeah. To to make 22,002 is Chris Seiter 00:57like a pretty long time ago. 01:02And we actually broke up with me, I think it was last Saturday, and he texted me, it was a really bad breakup. Chris Seiter 01:15What did he say exactly? In the text? 01:19He didn’t want to meet me. And I asked him why. And he said that he wanted to break up with me. So was nothing more than that. But he called me and we talked about loss really bad. Because I have been with him for four years. was out of the blue. Sort of a Chris Seiter 01:48out of the you didn’t like notice any signs about him becoming distant up until the breakup? 01:54No. Nothing like that. No, no, so much. Chris Seiter 02:00So obviously, he breaks up with you. And then I’m assuming you go to Google or YouTube or wherever to try to find ways to get your ex back. And is that pretty much how that went down? 02:11Yeah, that’d be I looked up. Almost every video you have on YouTube Chris Seiter 02:19every day. That’s like 600. Ellen. 02:23Yeah, almost every. Chris Seiter 02:28So eventually, you come into the program. And you start, I guess, the program to try to get your ex back. How did that go? 02:41It didn’t go good at all. I was too anxious. So I couldn’t handle it. And I needed more time. And he wasn’t nice to me. So we started to fight all the time. And he started to date another woman. Chris Seiter 03:01So he’s, so he starts to date another woman. I’m assuming at some point, you do like a No Contact Rule. To them. Do you remember how long you made it? 03:1560 days, I think both 60 Chris Seiter 03:17days you did 260? Day in Hong Kong? What was the thinking behind doing that? The 60 days? 03:25was the longest time you can do according to ERP. So I did it, because they Chris Seiter 03:31did. So you did a 60 day No Contact Rule, which is actually a little bit longer than we recommend. But what’s what’s interesting is, I’m assuming you kind of broke it prematurely a few times. Yes. What? So how many times or what was what prompted you to break it a bunch of times like that? 03:58I was sad and anxious. That’s all it was really hard to stay away. Okay. Chris Seiter 04:06So, so you you break the No Contact Rule? I’m assuming it doesn’t go well. 04:11No, it didn’t answer or he told me to stop writing or Yeah. Chris Seiter 04:17Okay. So what do you do after that when he tells you basically, like, leave me alone? Stop writing. What what’s your approach after that? 04:27I left him alone for like, one week, and then they wrote again, he did it again. Yeah, I did all the mistakes. You can you can do. Chris Seiter 04:39So like at some point, I think you decide to give up, right. Is that is that kind of what ends up happening? 04:47We’ll see. You during Christmas. Last year. I applied for a job at a big bank in Sweden and he worked there and When I told him about it, he threatened me and was really angry. You told me around you? Yeah. Yeah. He told me that. If I started working there, he will quit his job and he will sell his apartment and move in with his parents and everything is my fault. Chris Seiter 05:22I see. Yeah. I assume did you end up taking the bank job? No, 05:28I didn’t take it. But it was. It was too much for me. He even blocked me. So I think he was too immature. I mean, Chris Seiter 05:38yeah. Okay, so So basically, at that point, that was the last straw for you, the straw that broke the camel’s back, so to speak. 05:47Yeah. I couldn’t talk to him after that, because I was blocked almost everywhere Chris Seiter 05:52and everywhere. Are you still blocked to this day? 05:55Yes. Not on Facebook, but everywhere else. So. Chris Seiter 05:59So he still wants a small window into your life on Facebook? Yeah. But what’s interesting is, the story is about to take a good turn. So eventually, you meet this new guy, you basically give up on that axe and start moving on. 06:15Yeah. How did that happen? I actually got a lot of help from my battle, buddy. I have one from the ERP group. And she helps me a lot, and also the group read almost everything in it. And I think it’s really good for mental health. And I wanted to meet someone better, someone which I can have a family with. So I started to date, but it was not a good in the beginning. I had Tinder, but it’s not that good. Chris Seiter 06:54So you tried Tinder, it didn’t work out so well. 06:59So I actually downloaded a more mature app. And a guy brought me and we saw each other after like three days. Chris Seiter 07:10Do you remember what the app was called? Yeah. match.com. Oh, match. Okay. 07:17I’m sure it’s an international app. I guess. Chris Seiter 07:21No, no, we have match.com here in the States. It’s just not as popular. I guess. Tinder got the dating market share something. But I remember match.com. And it was going on. So eventually you you meet someone on match.com. 07:36And Chris Seiter 07:39and how did that go? 07:41Well, he was really nice. And he’s actually a gentleman. It’s not that common. It’s pretty rare in my age, and he actually holds every door for me. And he pays for me when we are out and eat at restaurants and even holds my bag. He does everything for me. It’s Chris Seiter 08:06so I’m assuming your ex boyfriend did not do those things. 08:11And maybe it didn’t even buy me a Christmas present or what? No Christmas presents? No, it was really mean to me. Chris Seiter 08:22So that’s interesting to me. Why do you think it took you so long to get to that place where you’re like, you know what, I deserve better? 08:30I think it is because you have a vision. You can see a future retirement, really liked his family and his friends and his life. I wanted to be a part of it. But you don’t see the bigger picture. You don’t think about it in that way. It’s more like a dream. And it’s hard to lose that. I think that’s Chris Seiter 09:00disappeared. It looks like we’re having some technical difficulties. And my back. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, I think that was a really poignant way of putting that, that you kind of like, hold on to that vision. And you kind of don’t want to let it go. Obviously, we’re doing this interview to kind of really speak to people in the group and show people that there’s light at the end of the tunnel, even if you don’t get your ex back the way you want. What would you say to someone listening to this, that struggling? Holding on to that vision? What what what are some words of advice from because you’ve already made it through you’ve made it to the promised land so to speak, what do you tell people who are struggling? 09:52Give it a lot of time. It took me over one year and do things you like for example Meet new friends and start a hobby. For example, I started training at a team, and the new guy even trains with me and I have a new friend, which I trained with. So do things you like and meet new friends and just keep busy and try to be patient takes a lot of time. And I think almost like 80% of the people in the group deserves so much better. Yeah. It’s really important to look after red flags and be and don’t use Tinder, for example, you can use it but you need to be very, I don’t know, either. really careful. And Chris Seiter 10:55well, let’s talk a little bit about that. You say you need to be careful on Tinder. What’s what’s informing That? That? Words, 11:05a lot of guys. They only want sex. So they do will say whatever they want. They try to make you think otherwise. So you think they want a relationship or a future with you, but in and when they get six, they disappear. So I think you should. It’s actually my battle buddy. From ERP, she actually taught me this. She actually made me wait a long time and to look after more serious guys and Chris Seiter 11:42older guys. So I guess essentially, the battle buddy. So when you look back at your experience in, in the community, you would say probably your connection that you made with the battle buddy was the most impactful aspect of that. 11:57Yeah, she’s a friend of mine. Now, we talked a lot, so she helps me a lot. Chris Seiter 12:05So that’s interesting. Are you guys both nearby each other? Have you ever met in person yet? 12:11No. She’s in Switzerland. So it’s no, yes. I think it’s Switzerland. So it’s not here, but it’s in Europe. So it’s the same timezone. So that’s the same Chris Seiter 12:23timezone. Yeah, for sure. So you meet the new guy. Things are going really, really well. And by comparison, I guess it feels like, Oh, this is what a relationship is supposed to be like. 12:38Yeah, I feel really secure and calm and happy. It’s like heaven. Chris Seiter 12:46So how long have you been with the new guy for? 12:49I think three weeks. So it’s pretty new. But we are always talking about winning together in the future. Chris Seiter 12:56Wow. moving in together. Have you ever talked with someone that quickly? 13:03No, actually not. Chris Seiter 13:07Have you guys said that? told each other that you love each other yet? 13:12No, but he’s in love with me. You told me that? Chris Seiter 13:15Well, I mean, that’s, that kind of counts in my book tells you that he’s in love with you. How often do you guys see each other? 13:24Like for three days a week? Wow. Chris Seiter 13:29four to three, three to four days a week. So obviously, you’re over your ex. Yeah, that’s, that’s kind of the interesting thing, I think is that we’re not really talking about here is how long do you felt like it take it took for you to get to that place where you got over them? Like officially, 13:49like one year and one month or so it was 13 points? Yeah. Chris Seiter 13:58Do you feel like there’s any tips or tricks you can give to someone who wants to get over their ex on what actually worked for you? 14:08We’ve been talking about it with other people. Because when I talked about him, they all saw a lot of red flags and a lot of abuse. And so it made me think about him in a really bad way. I think that’s important, and also to be really occupied and starting a new life. Chris Seiter 14:33Well, that’s the interesting what you said about talking to other people. Yeah, because I think I think there’s more to it than just talking to other people. I think it’s talking to impartial people. Because sometimes, like when you talk to your friends or family who don’t like your ex, you’re not going to ultimately get an authentic reaction from someone who can just look at a situation but when you’re talking to someone who doesn’t have any skin in the game, and they’re looking at your situation saying hey, these are some really major red flags are emotionally abusing you hear. It can, I think maybe was it? Was it the fact that you were talking to like a battle buddy? That was saying like, Hey, these are red flags, you need to watch out for this? Yeah. Was that when it sort of started clicking for you? 15:18Yes. And before that I have talked to my family and friends that know him. So it’s Chris Seiter 15:25both sides. Oh, so they hadn’t met him before? 15:28No, not my new friends. So it helped a lot. Chris Seiter 15:33Okay, so obviously, this guy was really rude really mean emotionally using you? You kind of got out of that situation. And what I think is really hard for people to maybe understand is some of the red flags. So could you take us maybe through some of the red flags that people need to be paying attention to that maybe they’re excusing? Because they are holding on to that vision? 15:59One big red flag was that it was really rude and mean to other people. For example, if we were in a store, or the restaurant he talked about about people he doesn’t know. And he started to be mean to me as well. And he always talked about yourself in like, he was on a pedestal. Chris Seiter 16:23Narcissistic type. Yeah. 16:26Yeah. And he actually hide me from his friends and family for four years. So Chris Seiter 16:34four years. So did you ever meet them? 16:38No. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Chris Seiter 16:42Do you? Do you know if he also was seeing someone else at the same time? 16:48No, I don’t know. Because we didn’t see each other that much. It could take like two weeks between or so I don’t know. Maybe, but I don’t think so. Chris Seiter 17:03But so is your so he’s rude to other people. Was that just like rude to the waiter or something? Or was it talking bad about people that you’ve worked with? 17:12Looks bad about people all the time? All the time? Yeah. I couldn’t even watch TV with him or stand in line at the store anything. He talked bad about people only all the time. Chris Seiter 17:26Wow. Was there any other red flags? Other than than those two? 17:32Maybe that he felt bad about me my clothes and my weight? And Chris Seiter 17:40it sounds like it sounds like a narcissist. Yeah, 17:43I could do what I want that I couldn’t do what I wanted. Chris Seiter 17:48Yeah. Sounds. He sounds I mean, I’m not a licensed therapist or anything. So I can’t clinically but he definitely sounds like a narcissist. Because like a narcissist will have the idealization stage where they like, idealize you at first, and then make you feel super special. And then they have what’s called the devalue stage where they do everything in their power to devalue you and talk down to you. And it seems kind of like a classic case of him sticking in that. And it seems to me like you had a difficult time holding yourself out of that situation. Here. 18:24Yeah, it was really hard. I was actually depressed. And so yeah, I went to therapy for like, half a year, I think. So it was hard. Chris Seiter 18:36In the therapy help, 18:38we have it. Now. The thing that helped me most was finding new friends and doing other stuff. But it was really hard because you are attached to people. I don’t know why you like the space you like, when they are nice to you even do they really mean it’s really hard to describe and it’s actually a bit embarrassing? Chris Seiter 19:06No, I don’t think you’d be embarrassed at all. I think actually, you’re just by having these open, honest discussions about this, I think, to effect people. Probably the most important thing that you said there is the thing that worked the most was attaching to other people, surrounding yourself with other people. Do you feel like that was because you’re able to form a connection with those people or if it was more about an accountability aspect where they are holding you accountable for like, maybe just even holding the mirror up and saying, Hey, look what he’s doing to you and making you realize you deserve better. 19:40Yeah, all my friends actu…

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