Stay ConnectedWhat’s beyond the veil? The nature of this world we live in is unrefined.
Yes, we live in this multifaceted world of the SEEN and the UNSEEN.
In each episode we go beyond the veil in our own personal unrefined way.
Our podcast recipe includes: the supernatural, the strange and unexplained from a biblical perspective, PLUS deep dives into the Word AND a wee bit of the conspiratorial for good measure.
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In this our 200th episode of the Unrefined Podcast, Brandon continues his conversation with Jennifer Johnson on judgment in the heart, emotional healing, biblical meditation, identity in Christ, and practical heart transformation. They discuss Dr. Jim Richards’ How to Stop the Pain, the difference between head knowledge and heart knowledge, how judgment creates pain cycles, and why peace, healing, and healthy relationships begin with renewing the mind and writing truth on the heart. This episode is a powerful look at Christian emotional healing, heart beliefs, forgiveness, journaling, biblical identity, and how to walk in peace and freedom.
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https://paperbell.me/jenniferjohnson-coach
Timestamps:
00:00:52 Introduction to Jennifer Johnson and part two setup
00:01:20 Brandon shares personal testimony of depression and heart physics journey
00:02:10 Importance of community and safe relationships in healing
00:03:11 Introducing How to Stop the Pain and discussion direction
00:04:10 Jennifer’s first encounter with Dr Jim Richards teachings
00:05:00 Initial skepticism about sending away offense
00:05:31 Story of offense and first practical application of sending it away
00:07:00 Decision making and intention in heart transformation
00:07:57 Immediate shift when choosing to release offense
00:08:45 Pain is inevitable suffering is optional explained
00:09:20 Brandon shares real life example from same morning
00:10:08 Not about words but intention and heart posture
00:10:45 Jennifer shares recent repentance for judgment
00:12:00 How judgment operates and distorts perception
00:12:27 Log in your own eye and focusing on faults
00:13:30 How judgment snowballs into relational breakdown
00:14:53 Twisted perception and spiritual distortion explained
00:15:50 Becoming what you behold and sowing and reaping
00:17:11 Law of the seed and identity transformation
00:18:00 Identity crisis in culture and Genesis foundation
00:19:28 Head knowledge vs heart knowledge
00:20:10 God as a heart God and new heart reality
00:21:52 Mind as gatekeeper and renewing the mind
00:23:00 What righteousness actually means in practice
00:24:11 Simplicity of believing who God says you are
00:25:00 Engaging imagination in transformation
00:26:32 Meditation reframed from biblical perspective
00:27:30 Writing beliefs on the heart through emotion and imagery
00:28:52 Identity illustration through royal family analogy
00:30:00 House of David example and engaging scripture emotionally
00:31:01 Imagination activating deeper understanding of scripture
00:33:21 Living out of identity and supernatural expectation
00:35:42 Faith vs fear and emotional belief systems
00:36:30 Confession vs heart belief disconnect
00:38:04 Living from the heart not behavior modification
00:40:29 How heart beliefs are formed subconsciously
00:42:51 Writing new beliefs through truth and scripture
00:45:16 Identity producing promises and virtues
00:47:35 Living from promises not striving
00:49:57 Journaling as a tool for heart transformation
00:52:18 Simple journaling practices and starting small
00:54:33 Brandon realization about control and quiet time
00:56:57 Journaling revealing hidden beliefs
00:59:20 God reveals to heal not condemn
01:01:38 First step to dismantling judgment
01:03:11 Fixing others vs choosing peace
01:04:01 Power of safe community without judgment
01:06:16 Boundaries vs threats explained
01:08:35 Judgment vs discernment tension
01:11:00 Letting go of pain instead of holding offense
01:13:20 Choosing righteousness over being right
01:15:21 Identity transformation and encouragement
01:17:14 Final thoughts and emotional closing
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There is a growing conversation happening around trauma, mental health, spiritual warfare, and the unseen realm and this episode steps right into it. Brandon and the Unrefined crew sit down with Dr. Natalie Atwell to explore what happens when human struggle is treated only through a clinical lens and the spiritual dimension is ignored. Dr. Atwell shares from her work as a clinical mental health therapist, educator, and researcher, explaining why some issues that present as mental health struggles may also carry deeper spiritual roots.
This conversation covers trauma, epigenetics, attachment, generational patterns, personality disorders, suicide, dissociation, Freemasonry, occult influence, deliverance, inner healing, brain science, and the divine council worldview. Rather than reducing everything to demons or dismissing the supernatural entirely, this episode presses into a more integrated biblical framework for healing and freedom.
If you’ve wrestled with depression, spiritual oppression, church trauma, counseling, or the question of how the unseen realm intersects with real life, this episode gives language to a conversation many people have felt but never knew how to articulate.
https://mentalwarriorconsulting.com/
Timestamps:
00:00:07 There are spiritual beings out there who have influenced us negatively
00:00:51 Intro to mental health spiritual formation and the unseen realm
00:03:10 Dr Natalie Atwell shares her background in counseling and Liberty University
00:05:30 When clinical explanations stopped being enough
00:07:46 Why some mental health struggles may have spiritual roots
00:09:50 The cost of ignoring the unseen realm in modern mental health
00:12:01 Why spiritual darkness questions rarely get asked in therapy
00:14:23 Trauma early experiences and the imprint they leave
00:16:48 The Body Keeps the Score trauma and generational patterns
00:19:03 Epigenetics faith and healing
00:21:11 Why spirituality alone is not enough if darkness is ignored
00:23:20 Suicide spiritual oppression and going to war with the lie
00:25:38 How skeptical therapists respond to this framework
00:27:44 A case study involving dissociation and Freemasonry
00:29:48 Personal testimony of darkness depression and survival
00:32:03 Layered healing trauma choices and demonic influence
00:34:04 Fraternal orders sororities and hidden influence
00:36:28 The gray areas and asking better questions
00:38:50 The Holy Spirit and discernment in counseling
00:41:14 Why the divine council worldview matters for real people
00:43:24 Why children may be targeted and the value they carry
00:45:48 Assessing darkness without blaming everything on demons
00:47:57 Narcissism pride attachment disorder and Babel
00:50:16 How to distinguish trauma from spiritual oppression
00:53:03 Finished work inner healing and the long road of restoration
00:57:39 Renewing the mind after deliverance and healing
00:59:35 Community attachment and why the church must show up
01:01:55 What Christian mental health care could look like in five years
01:04:08 SRA alien abduction language and believing people’s stories
01:06:33 How pastors should respond to strange or disturbing testimonies
01:08:56 House of David giants and the supernatural worldview of scripture
01:11:02 Preparing the church for stranger days ahead
01:12:35 Final encouragement greater is He who is in you
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Brandon, Lindsy and the Unrefined crew sit down with Jason Spears and Christopher Dean of Operation Red Pill to map the “satanic control matrix”—a framework for how culture, media, education, and systems of power shape the way people think, feel, and live. They unpack brainwashing stages (desensitization, jamming, conversion), symbolism in entertainment, and practical ways to unplug without living in paranoia. AND MORE.
Timestamps:
00:00:50 Brandon introduces the crew and Operation Red Pill
00:03:05 The satanic control matrix begins how they got into this
00:05:28 The origin story starts and the flood question at work
00:07:46 Hidden messaging and the MCU breakdown concept
00:09:54 When the satanic control matrix language formed
00:12:10 The theology argument and why Christopher saw room to grow
00:14:39 Starbucks moment the framework starts getting written
00:17:03 Definition of the satanic control matrix and the cosmic chessboard
00:19:24 Why this framework helps connect the big narrative
00:21:43 Desensitization explained and exposure changes responses
00:24:03 Noticing language and content shifts over time
00:26:24 Jamming social pressure labeling and coercion
00:28:44 Conversion narratives and the AI programming example
00:31:08 Everything becomes weaponized in culture against people
00:33:31 Top Gun symbolism moment and nothing feels safe
00:35:58 How to use this information without losing hope
00:38:15 Overload distraction and why people cannot think clearly
00:40:42 Reticular activating system and cognitive rigidity
00:43:07 Community sanity and changing your relationship with tech
00:45:29 Quiet time and the mind of Christ in a noisy age
00:47:50 Practical steps disrupting screens and stimulation
00:50:17 Why Jesus took quiet and why that matters
00:52:35 How to stay sane and conspiracy fatigue
00:53:06 Practical unplugging tips lights on subtitles pause mid movie
00:55:30 Brainwave shift and why screens lower resistance
00:57:48 Ammo stacking and staying on Team Jesus
01:00:10 Entertainment etymology enter and detain
01:02:37 Dionysus Bacchus and possession themes
01:05:01 Syncretism and the path toward a universal system
01:07:03 Method acting channeling examples and spiritual access
01:09:30 Movies music sports and games as spiritual liturgy
01:11:52 Video games occult themes and cultural conditioning
01:14:14 Net industrial complex and subconscious programming
01:16:36 The three control goals individual social global
01:18:53 Education as individual control protocol
01:21:18 Social control through industries and systems
01:23:39 Telecommunications and reversing Babel effects
01:26:04 Operation Paperclip and occult tech transfer themes
01:28:30 Global control pillars geopolitics finance religion
01:30:55 Brandon reacts framework clarity and big picture value
Misery has a way of forcing honest questions.
In this episode, Brandon sits down with Jennifer Johnson who has spent decades helping people move beyond information about God and into real, embodied transformation. This conversation explores heart physics, biblical meditation, imagination, and why so many believers know Scripture—but can’t seem to live free.
What happens when the Word moves from the mind into the heart?
What if healing isn’t about trying harder, fixing yourself, or perfect behavior—but learning to trust again?
This episode unpacks why religious systems often fear inner freedom, how imagination was designed to work, and why your response to pain determines the outcome of your story. The conversation culminates in a live guided biblical meditation that invites listeners into direct awareness of Christ within.
This is not self-help.
This is not technique-driven spirituality.
This is an invitation to closeness.
https://paperbell.me/jenniferjohnson-coach
https://joinapp.unrefinedpodcast.com
Timestamps:
00:00:51 Introducing heart physics and biblical meditation
00:03:02 Growing up Christian and discovering something was missing
00:05:24 How How to Stop the Pain reframed suffering
00:07:45 Heart physics and the parable of the sower
00:12:23 Why information alone never produces fruit
00:16:52 Meditation, imagination, and reclaiming what religion feared
00:21:37 Sanctified imagination versus misuse
00:28:43 Christ in you awareness not self-fixing
00:30:59 The moment Jesus said “I chose you”
00:33:10 Why experience changes everything
00:34:47 Guided biblical meditation begins
00:41:56 Trusting Jesus as an invitation not a demand
00:45:06 Final reflection and closing
Hey, hey, hey—today isn’t a reaction piece. It’s a response. Not a theological sparring match, not a pile-on, not a “pick your side” moment. We’re talking about what sits underneath public failure in the church—power, gifting, trauma, accountability, integrity, and the systems that shape leaders long before anything goes public. If we want real healing, we’ve got to stop playing whack-a-mole with personalities and start asking better questions about formation, cover-up culture, and what restoration actually requires.
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https://drrobinbraun.com
Timestamps:
00:02:42 Examining our own hearts before critiquing others
00:05:01 No one agrees 100 percent with anyone’s theology and why that matters
00:07:15 Prophetic etiquette and why words must be weighed
00:09:33 Stage culture money ego and the illusion of total accuracy
00:11:52 Why these moments expose systems more than individuals
00:14:08 Upside down ministry model gifting elevated over healing
00:16:31 Judging behavior vs assigning intention and the iceberg metaphor
00:18:46 Four levels of consciousness and why triggers persist
00:20:56 Brandon re-evaluates assumptions and contrasts correction styles
00:23:16 Freemasonry generational doors and cover-up culture claims
00:25:41 Character over gifting and why relational community reveals fruit
00:28:04 What repentance could look like for replatforming
00:30:22 Predatory patterns and why some behaviors disqualify platform trust
00:32:37 Organic church family units vs celebrity models
00:34:53 Board failure power dynamics and why exposure happens externally
00:37:14 Sanctification put off vs put on and formation practices
00:39:30 Sonship identity performance and anointing as identity substitute
00:41:50 Why psychics can seem more accurate and the issue of mixture
00:44:14 Occult mimicry counterfeit spiritual experiences and discernment
00:46:37 Dissociation explained trauma survival compartmentalization
00:48:53 Epigenetics cellular memory and generational impact language
00:51:17 Accountability after 18 and responsibility for healing
00:53:38 Freemasonry vow logic and Matthew 18 discipline arc
00:55:52 Integrity as wholeness and why truth is the safer path
00:58:12 Jezebel Leviathan Python framework and confusion dynamics
01:00:35 Witchcraft manipulation twisting intimidation and board dynamics
01:03:00 501c3 alignment claims and spiritual entanglement discussion
01:05:23 Symbolism foundations and why “systems” matter spiritually
01:07:39 Chris Vallotton fallout logic and outcome based ethics
01:10:02 Tree of life vs knowledge of good and evil applied
01:12:25 Why integrity heals subconscious double binds and rumination
01:14:47 Peace joy homeostasis and alignment as nervous system reality
01:17:02 Frequency language and predators targeting low states
01:19:25 Learning prophetic safely practice confirmation and community
01:21:30 Locker room vs field practicing gifts in real life
01:23:40 Gift of prophecy vs office of prophet relational difference
01:26:02 Prophecy as potentiality and confirmation over control
01:28:14 Finding triggers and why guided help matters
01:30:36 Discerning supernatural favor fruit peace alignment and closed doors
01:33:00 Enchanted world discernment food offered to idols analogy
01:35:05 Blessing food and spiritual defilement stories
01:37:24 ULGs what they are and how they work
01:39:45 Identity in Christ healing projections and father lens
01:42:07 Closing encouragement don’t throw the baby out
Most believers know they’re forgiven… but still live like they’re on probation. In this conversation, we unpack what changes when holiness flows out of who you already are in Christ instead of who you’re trying to become. We get practical about the “striving trap,” mixed-covenant theology, abiding without making it another performance, and why the heart is the real battleground where belief becomes fruit. Plus, a closing prayer and a timely word for Brandon about finishing what God put in his hands.
https://Forward.church
https://clintbyars.com
Timestamps:
00:00:48 Holiness flowing from identity not striving
00:03:05 Identity as the starting point for behavior
00:05:29 New creation reality and “who you are in spirit”
00:09:57 Ontological shift what kind of being are you now
00:14:45 Mind renewal living within what you already have
00:17:07 Abiding as response to Him abiding in us
00:21:43 Why negative self-beliefs feel “humble” in church culture
00:24:02 Mixed covenant confusion and reframing Jesus’ teachings
00:33:03 No dusty corners seated with Him as true humility
00:37:59 Heart in Scripture why it matters so much
00:40:23 Parable of the sower heart soil Word seed Kingdom fruit
00:45:09 Quantum imagery observation faith and manifestation
00:52:08 Practical rest and business goals identity shapes decisions
00:59:27 Intention dominion and the dangers of going “law of attraction”
01:08:48 Recommended practice using 52 Things Jesus Did for You
01:13:27 Repentance as mind change not groveling confession
01:15:38 Closing prayer to yield and trust
01:17:54 Prophetic encouragement to finish the book
Sometimes growth in our faith feels less like a ladder and more like getting lost on a trail you thought you already mapped. In this conversation, Brandon is joined in-studio by Jen Parks and Lindsy Waters, and they bring back Dr. Robin Braun to talk about why believers get stuck, why online “metabrawls” keep brawling, and what actually changes when God matures us beyond rule-keeping into relationship.
Robin breaks down a stages-of-faith framework (drawing from James Fowler and a Christian translation of it) and connects it to what she sees in inner healing work: people who say they trust God, but carry subconscious beliefs that God is angry, punitive, or performance-based. The crew digs into deconstruction, limiting beliefs, church hurt, and why many walk away when their faith was built more on systems than on a living relationship.
It gets personal too. Robin shares parts of her own story, the cost of hard seasons, and how “nothing is wasted” becomes real on the other side. The thread running through the whole episode is simple but not shallow: when love becomes the aim, the room changes.
https://drrobinbraun.com
https://integratedlifestrategies.com
click for link to book-Living Like a Son Book -https://amzn.to/4pZMLyZ
click for link to book - Thrive -https://amzn.to/4aGDYNN
Missions Robin mentioned- https://www.thriveholistichealingministries.com/get-involved
Timestamps:
00:00:51 Topic stages of maturity and introduce Dr. Robin Braun
00:03:14 Brandon frames the “maturity crisis” as more than doctrine
00:05:37 Robin connects stages of faith to deprogramming beliefs and father wounds
00:07:56 Robin’s background and early foundation God as a loving Father
00:10:13 Early supernatural encounters and pursuing theology from intimacy
00:12:35 Realizing theological ambiguity and why it forces relationship
00:14:56 Why some deconstruct and don’t come back relationship vs rule system
00:17:14 Jen asks for a clear framework of the stages
00:19:25 Stages two and three described tribe shifts and conflict
00:21:37 Stage four deconstruction and moving toward love
00:24:01 Holding beliefs loosely and dignity to disagree
00:26:20 Can people shift stages across seasons and areas of life
00:28:46 Practical wisdom don’t respond online in heightened emotion
00:30:50 Brandon shares his own rock bottom deconstruction story
00:32:50 Jen’s puzzle piece analogy for faith and fringe experiences
00:35:11 Limiting beliefs ant and spider circle illustration
00:37:28 Robin’s four stages of healing framework
00:39:39 Brandon on both and not either or and navigating gray
00:42:04 Rewriting history theology shifts and removal of miracle accounts
00:44:31 Rick Warren example and fallout of doctrinal dogmatism
00:46:52 Bill Gothard and patriarchy damage performance culture
00:49:08 What changes when disagreements don’t transform anyone
00:51:33 How hyper performance creates self hatred and fear
00:53:48 Robin shares marriage story boundaries release and recompense
00:56:12 Nothing is wasted redemption and compassion formed through suffering
00:58:32 Brandon on mystery sacramental worldview and trust
01:00:43 Heart mind alignment trust vs belief and inner wiring
01:03:03 Porto illustration and carrying beliefs into the heart
01:05:28 Encouragement for listeners faith shifting as growth not loss
01:07:51 Practical next steps find guides get healing rebuild relationship
01:10:15 Robin shares websites training and nonprofit support work
01:12:29 Where to start drrobinbraun.com vs integratedlifestrategies.com
01:14:48 Taking back tools mislabeling everything as new age
01:17:10 Robin prays over listeners and the church
Brandon and Lindsy sit down with returning guest Anthony Delgado to talk about prayer that actually forms you instead of turning into a spiritual transaction. They unpack why so many believers say “I prayed and it didn’t work,” and how that often reveals we were aiming prayer at the wrong target. Anthony frames the Lord’s Prayer as more than a model or a script it’s a theology of prayer shaped by God, rooted in the Fatherhood of God, and meant to draw us into communion that reshapes desire, identity, and daily life.
The episode also gets honest about performance-oriented prayer culture, the difference between fervency as trust vs fervency as manipulation, and why starting with adoration changes everything. Along the way they hit liturgy, sacramental imagination, memorialism vs real presence, and practical on-ramps for people who feel distant from God or feel stuck praying only for outcomes.
https://www.anthonydelgado.net/
Podcast: Biblical Re-Enchantment
https://www.youtube.com/@AnthonyDelgadoBR
Timestamps:
00:00:50 Welcome back Anthony Delgado and why this book matters
00:02:54 Why Anthony wrote God-Shaped Prayer and the church context
00:05:05 What makes this Lord’s Prayer book different
00:07:09 Biblical theology angle tracing motifs through Scripture
00:09:34 Prayer as communion with the Father not fear of praying wrong
00:12:01 Why “Our Father” hits different for the original audience
00:14:22 What God-shaped prayer means shaped by God not our rules
00:16:45 Neo-spiritual “asking the universe” vs Christian prayer
00:19:07 Starting with nearness our Father before awe and holiness
00:23:50 Writing a “useful book” something to chew on every page
00:26:09 The real goal of prayer and the fervency confusion
00:28:31 Identity first not performance and the father’s lap picture
00:30:09 What Anthony prayed like before and the ACTS framework
00:32:30 Why adoration and confession come first then thanksgiving
00:37:19 Sacramental imagination word and table and worship as formation
00:42:01 Memorialism vs real presence and obedience as receiving blessing
00:46:35 Prayer and Eucharistic life as fleeing the giants of the world
00:58:30 Where to start if you feel distant from God rule of prayer
01:03:14 Posture and the body in prayer and neural pathways
01:05:38 Where to find Anthony online and his podcast work
01:07:59 Workbook announcement and how it’s structured
01:10:03 Anthony prays the Lord’s Prayer themes over listeners
Some conversations begin with a whisper… and before you know it, you’re knee-deep in the strange world of fringe theories, spiritual puzzles, and the awkward silence that follows when you bring them up at dinner. In this episode, we lean into the art of talking about the unseen without losing your spouse, your friends, or your social standing. Cohost Jen Parks joins us to break down how to communicate the blurry stuff with wisdom, patience, humor, and a whole lot of relational finesse. We get into cognitive dissonance, defensiveness, spiritual warfare, and why you can’t fire-hose your way into someone’s worldview. From coffee-pot analogies to puzzle-piece theology, this conversation is packed with practical tools for anyone trying to introduce fringe topics to the people they love. It’s part communication workshop, part spiritual formation, and part, “Please don’t think I’m crazy.”
OHH- and there's a "new guy" (cohost) you get to meet in this one!
Timestamps:
00:00:51 Setting up today’s topic: fringe talk without scaring people
00:02:10 Jen shares what inspired this episode
00:03:15 Persuasion, winsome speech, and Proverbs 25:11
00:04:50 Fear, pride, and defensiveness in conversations
00:05:36 Cognitive dissonance explained
00:07:20 Intent behind questions and how Jesus handled it
00:09:45 Asking the Holy Spirit for the right words
00:10:22 Evangelism through questions
00:11:45 You’re the coffee pot principle
00:12:43 Trajectory and small shifts over time
00:13:50 Insider language and jargon problems
00:15:05 Relationship before explanation
00:17:16 Percolator analogy and slow spiritual conversations
00:18:50 Bigfoot, breadcrumbs, and worldview expansion
00:19:38 Why fringe topics matter to spiritual formation
00:22:00 Friendship before being “right”
00:24:18 Women's approach: you can influence, not control
00:26:45 Husbands as protectors and guardrails
00:28:55 Band of Brothers: “salute the rank, not the man”
00:31:33 Asking questions and listening well
00:33:47 Fire-hosing vs slow growth
00:36:07 Early experiences listening to fringe podcasts
00:38:25 The “all knowledge” paper and circle analogy
00:40:41 Using secondhand listening at home
00:42:52 Growth, discernment, and humility
00:45:17 Requesting reciprocal respect
00:47:42 Don’t make it hard for someone to change their mind
00:49:36 Conspiracy pitfalls and being honest about “I don’t know”
00:52:03 Collecting puzzle pieces and lifelong learning
00:54:28 The glory of kings to search a matter out
00:55:43 Closing encouragement and future episode topics
Every December, it feels like the internet dusts off the same “Christmas is pagan” memes and lobs them into everyone’s feeds, and honestly… I’m over it. In this conversation, I sit down with Lindsy and our guest co-navigator Jennifer to ask where these claims actually came from and whether they hold up to real history. We talk about early church evidence for celebrating Jesus’ birth in December, why conception dates mattered in the ancient world, and how sacred time belongs to God—not Saturn, Mithras, or Yuletide spirits. We also unravel Alexander Hislop’s The Two Babylons, Nimrod conspiracies, green man imagery, and the fear that you might be “accidentally” worshiping other gods by putting up a tree. Along the way, we hit on mission, sacred space, and why intent matters more than internet paranoia. If you’ve ever wondered whether you’re allowed to enjoy Christmas without guilt, this one’s for you with Dr. Judd Burton.
https://www.burtonbeyond.net/
https://drjuddburton.com/
https://join.unrefinedpodcast.com
Timestamps:
00:03:16 Is Christmas actually pagan?
00:05:39 Why celebrating Jesus’ birth matters
00:07:56 Birth vs conception and sacred timing
00:10:20 Shepherds, winter flocks, and December
00:12:42 Saturnalia and Sol Invictus explained
00:15:08 Constantine myths and Jesus image
00:17:24 Yuletide, grottos, and reclaiming sites
00:19:20 St Nicholas, Nicaea, and legend
00:21:45 Enter Alexander Hislop and Two Babylons
00:23:59 Nimrod, Apkalū, and pareidolia
00:26:17 Fear, deception, and trusting God vs the devil
00:28:33 Magi, astrology, and God using pagan culture
00:31:00 Christmas trees, Asherah poles, and intent
00:33:08 Law, grace, and going back under Torah
00:35:31 Demonic counterfeits and mythic archetypes
00:37:52 Generational attacks, giants, and cosmic war
00:40:14 Real danger of anti-Christmas teaching
00:42:35 Judd’s projects, classes, and Christmas studies
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