Stay ConnectedWhat’s beyond the veil? The nature of this world we live in is unrefined.
Yes, we live in this multifaceted world of the SEEN and the UNSEEN.
In each episode we go beyond the veil in our own personal unrefined way.
Our podcast recipe includes: the supernatural, the strange and unexplained from a biblical perspective, PLUS deep dives into the Word AND a wee bit of the conspiratorial for good measure.
Copyright: © Unrefined LLC
What if your heart was designed to experience God—not just know about Him?
Brandon welcomes certified Heart Physics coach Jennifer Johnson back to Unrefined for a practical conversation about moving from fear to faith and from simply knowing biblical truth intellectually to actually believing and living from it in the heart. Jennifer shares personal stories involving fear, relationships, forgiveness, family struggles, healing, and the hidden beliefs that can quietly shape our reactions and circumstances. Together they explore how repeated thoughts and emotions persuade the heart, why circumstances often expose what we genuinely believe, and how renewing the mind becomes an intentional process of gathering new evidence around the truth of God’s Word. They also unpack Dr. Jim Richards’ Heart Physics approach, including Essential Heart Physics, relaxation, meditation, the “secret place,” community, and learning to encounter God at the heart level. The central challenge is simple but profound: we are always persuading our hearts of something—so what are we persuading them to believe?
Monday Meditation with Jennifer on zoom (free) @11am CST Monday's
Replays on Youtube
https://www.jjohnsoncoach.com/
Essential Heart Physics-Enroll in 1 month program- $29
Timestamps
00:00:04 – How Do You Persuade Your Heart?
00:00:41 – Welcome Back Jennifer Johnson
00:02:00 – From Fear to Faith
00:05:20 – Building an Illusion & Gathering Evidence
00:07:40 – How Thoughts Become Heart Beliefs
00:10:03 – Forgiveness: Head Knowledge vs. Heart Knowledge
00:12:21 – Sending Away the Pain
00:14:42 – When “Fear Not” Becomes Real
00:17:03 – Trusting God With Your Children
00:19:15 – When God Exposes What the Heart Really Believes
00:21:38 – Getting Real With God Without Shame
00:24:05 – Brandon’s Journey Out of Religiosity
00:26:17 – What Does It Mean to Persuade Your Heart?
00:28:44 – How One Thought Becomes a Train of Thoughts
00:31:07 – Religious Worrying & Collecting Evidence Against God
00:33:10 – Mental Assent vs. Genuine Heart Belief
00:35:24 – Healing, Pain & “Help My Unbelief”
00:37:49 – Renewing the Mind Thought by Thought
00:40:06 – Transformation Takes Effort
00:42:30 – Secondary Gain & Hidden Heart Beliefs
00:44:53 – You’re Always Persuading Your Heart
00:47:16 – When Your First Reaction Begins to Change
00:48:00 – What Is Heart Physics?
00:49:26 – Essential Heart Physics & Heart Work
00:51:44 – Why Essential Heart Physics Comes First
00:54:03 – The Secret Place & Experiencing God
00:56:06 – Jennifer’s Final Challenge & Prayer
Brandon and Lindsy invite Britton Smith, host of Pastor to Pioneer to share his journey from traditional church leadership into simple church and disciple-making movements—and the deeper transformation he discovered along the way. Britton opens up about the personal cost of leaving the institutional model, the impact on his marriage and identity, and the realization that simply changing church structures and discipleship tools doesn’t necessarily change the heart. The conversation explores performance-based Christianity, relational discipleship, dependence on the Holy Spirit, and the difference between doing the right things and actually becoming more like Jesus. Britton also shares a powerful supernatural encounter from his years in ministry and explains why true pioneering begins with what God is doing within us.to share his journey from traditional church leadership into simple church and disciple-making movements—and the deeper transformation he discovered along the way. Britton opens up about the personal cost of leaving the institutional model, the impact on his marriage and identity, and the realization that simply changing church structures and discipleship tools doesn’t necessarily change the heart. The conversation explores performance-based Christianity, relational discipleship, dependence on the Holy Spirit, and the difference between doing the right things and actually becoming more like Jesus. Britton also shares a powerful supernatural encounter from his years in ministry and explains why true pioneering begins with what God is doing within us.
https://pastortopioneer.com/
Timestamps
00:02:50 – Britton’s Journey
00:05:19 – Discovering the Supernatural
00:07:40 – An Unexpected Deliverance Encounter
00:09:43 – Are We Actually Making Disciples?
00:11:13 – Experimenting With House Church
00:13:37 – Discovering DMM & a Different Approach
00:15:55 – Why Changing the Model Wasn’t Enough
00:18:20 – COVID Exposes Dependency in the Church
00:20:47 – Church Split & Losing 90% of the Congregation
00:22:47 – Learning to Be the Church Without the Leaders
00:24:59 – Beyond Changing Models & Methods
00:27:26 – Marriage, Ministry & Facing His Own Brokenness
00:29:30 – When Ministry Relationships Become Transactional
00:31:54 – Realizing You Can’t Change People
00:34:16 – DMM Tools Without Heart Transformation
00:36:40 – Relational vs. Programmed Disciple Making
00:38:50 – Following Jesus Without Forcing the Outcome
00:41:11 – Are We Making Disciples or Gospel Spreaders?
00:43:30 – How Does Real Spiritual Maturity Happen?
00:45:50 – Obedience as Fruit, Not the Mechanism
00:48:09 – Identity After Leaving the Church System
00:50:12 – The Idol of Impact
00:52:35 – The Story Behind Pastor to Pioneer
00:55:01 – Helping Others Navigate the Transition
00:57:29 – The Internal Journey of a Pioneer
00:59:51 – The Wilderness Between Pastor and Pioneer
01:02:13 – A Powerful Lesson About God’s Love
01:04:17 – Britton’s Wildest Supernatural Encounter
01:06:39 – The Power Is in Jesus’ Name, Not Your Volume
01:09:01 – An Angel With a Flaming Sword
01:11:26 – Bringing Heart Transformation Into Discipleship
01:13:48 – You Can’t Give What You Don’t Have
What happens when following Jesus becomes more about maintaining the institution than actually being the body of Christ? Brandon and Lindsy sit down with returning guest Jonathan Brenneman for a provocative conversation about church, authority, leadership, supernatural ministry, and the difference between spectator Christianity and active discipleship. Drawing from his years of missionary work in Brazil, Jonathan shares stories of healings, deliverance, evangelism, and encounters with the Holy Spirit that often happen far outside traditional church services—in homes, neighborhoods, recovery houses, restaurants, barbecues, and everyday life.
Together they challenge hierarchical models of church leadership and explore what the New Testament actually portrays when believers gather: shared meals, dialogue, spiritual gifts, mutual edification, and the participation of the whole body. The conversation moves into tithing, institutional structures, servant leadership, the priesthood of all believers, women in ministry, house churches, spiritual authority, and the dangers of allowing tradition or position to become more authoritative than Scripture. Ultimately, Jonathan calls believers not simply to leave something behind, but to recover a participatory Christianity where every believer is equipped to follow Jesus, serve others, speak the Word, and carry the presence and power of God into ordinary life.
Website/blog: GoToHeavenNow.com
Email: Jonathan@GoToHeavenNow.com
Timestamps
00:00:28 – Welcome Back Jonathan Brenneman
00:02:27 – From Missions to Rethinking Church
00:04:55 – Healing, Miracles & Life Outside the Program
00:07:20 – Tithing, Grace & Leaving Institutional Expectations
00:09:41 – Ministry in the Streets of Brazil
00:12:00 – Manipulation, Money & the Spirit of Religion
00:14:22 – When Church Consumes the Mission
00:16:38 – Moving from Spectator to Participant
00:18:59 – The 59 “One Another” Commands
00:21:25 – Spiritual Gifts Around the Table
00:23:51 – Why Every Member Matters
00:26:10 – Rethinking Leadership & Authority
00:28:31 – Servant Leadership and Decentralized Church
00:33:16 – Does Authority Come from Position?
00:35:38 – Miracles Outside the Church Walls
00:37:57 – Is Revival Simply Normal Christianity?
00:40:16 – Receiving Jesus Through His Body
00:42:42 – Does Restricting Participation Quench the Spirit?
00:45:04 – Love, Miracles & Everyday Evangelism
00:47:25 – Evangelism at Carnival
00:49:43 – From Miracles to Making Disciples
00:52:07 – Worship, Friendship & Christian Community
00:54:29 – House Church, Heresy & Hierarchical Control
00:58:47 – Why Participation Helps Test Teaching
01:00:32 – Leaving Without Becoming Bitter
01:02:47 – Finding Biblical Fellowship
01:05:06 – Women and the Priesthood of All Believers
01:09:46 – Do Women Have a Priestly Duty to Speak?
01:11:58 – Women, Authority & Difficult New Testament Passages
01:14:21 – Phoebe, Junia & Women in Leadership
01:16:39 – Why Jesus Appeared First to Women
01:19:01 – Church History vs. the Teaching of Jesus
01:21:26 – Tradition, Scripture & Institutional Drift
01:23:49 – Religion vs. Relationship
01:25:52 – A Call Back to Participatory Christianity
01:28:17 – Jonathan’s Resources & Closing
What if the greatest evidence of spiritual maturity isn’t how much theology we know, but how deeply we love God and the people around us? Brandon and Lindsy sit down with Dr. Rob Reimer, author of The Tenderness of Jesus and Soul Care, for a deeply personal conversation about encountering Jesus beyond doctrine. Rob shares his dramatic conversion, his experience through a nine-month “dark night of the soul,” and how seasons of suffering and surrender reshaped his understanding of intimacy with God. Together they explore the tenderness of Jesus, God’s sovereignty and human freedom, dying to self, authentic humility, religious performance, soul care, and why biblical knowledge must become lived transformation. Rob also shares the story behind The Tenderness of Jesus, written originally for his own children, and explains why the cross and eternity provide essential lenses for understanding God’s goodness amid suffering. The conversation closes with recommended classics on spiritual formation, a remarkable healing story from Brazil, and a prayer that we would become people unmistakably marked by having been with Jesus.
https://renewalinternational.org/
Rob's book-https://amzn.to/46nj1nz
Timestamps
00:00:05 – Do You Love God and People More?
00:00:43 – Introducing Dr. Rob Reimer
00:03:06 – Rob’s Background and the Christian & Missionary Alliance
00:05:29 – A Life-Changing Encounter with Jesus
00:07:53 – Brandon’s Dark Night of the Soul
00:09:46 – What the Dark Night of the Soul Really Means
00:12:13 – Revival, Character and Dying to Self
00:14:32 – When the Presence of God Returned
00:16:56 – Sovereignty, Freedom and Human Choice
00:19:19 – God’s Goodness in a Broken World
00:21:40 – The Story Behind The Tenderness of Jesus
00:23:59 – Writing to the Ones You Love About the One You Love
00:26:19 – Soul Care, Freedom and Fullness in Christ
00:28:39 – Emptying the Soul Before Filling It
00:30:43 – Knowledge vs. Actual Spiritual Maturity
00:33:05 – The Religious Spirit and the Condition of the Heart
00:35:32 – Self-Focus, Ministry and Becoming Obsessed with Jesus
00:37:38 – Authentic Humility and Weakness
00:39:44 – Seeing God Through the Cross and Eternity
00:42:07 – Suffering, Homesickness and Our Eternal Citizenship
00:43:59 – Tenderness, Intimacy and the Holiness of God
00:46:00 – Why God’s Love Leads to Transformation
00:48:18 – Jesus’ Tenderness Toward Sinners
00:50:41 – The Cross, Love and Dying to Self
00:53:07 – Rob’s Favorite Classic Soul-Care Books
00:55:14 – Ancient and Modern Spiritual Formation Resources
00:57:36 – Theology, Encounter and Knowing Jesus
00:59:53 – A Remarkable Healing in Brazil
01:02:09 – Where to Find Rob and Closing Prayer
What if Christians didn’t have to choose between rejecting everything that sounds “New Age” and blindly accepting every alternative-health trend? Brandon sits down with biblical naturopathic doctor and frequency health strategist Dr. Brenda Chamness of Shalom Holistic Health for a wide-ranging conversation about frequency, bioresonance, holistic health, trauma, emotions, the biofield, muscle response testing, PEMF, red light, and other frequency-based modalities. Brenda shares her own remarkable journey through stage-four cancer and how it reshaped her understanding of the interconnectedness of spirit, soul, and body. Together they explore how Christians can distinguish between the properties of creation and claims of spiritual power, why fear is a poor substitute for discernment, and how identity, thought patterns, emotional health, and knowing God's voice fit into genuine wholeness. Ultimately, the conversation returns again and again to shalom: not chasing modalities as the answer, but learning to use available tools while remaining grounded in God's love, truth, and leading.
https://www.infopathy.com/?invite=250725636
https://www.shalomholistichealth.com/
00:00:41 — Introducing Frequency, Holistic Health & Christian Discernment
00:03:07 — Dr. Bren's Journey into Naturopathic Health
00:05:30 — Cancer, Rife Therapy & Discovering Frequency
00:09:45 — Shalom: Healing the Whole Person
00:14:21 — Spirit, Soul & Body: Why Everything Is Connected
00:18:31 — What Is Frequency?
00:20:31 — Light, Sound & Frequency in the Human Body
00:24:36 — Getting to the Root Causes of Dysfunction
00:26:13 — Identity, Shame, Unworthiness & the Love of God
00:28:21 — Looking for Healing in the Wrong Places
00:30:43 — Bioresonance & Finding the Right Modality
00:33:11 — The Problem with Compartmentalized Medicine
00:37:59 — Alternative Medicine, Creation & the Western Mindset
00:42:23 — Thoughts, the Subconscious & Physical Health
00:44:18 — Discernment Without Fear
00:47:28 — Learning to Recognize God's Voice
00:49:17 — The Biofield, Energy & Muscle Response Testing
00:53:54 — Remote Testing, Neutrality & Quantum Entanglement
00:56:00 — How Other People's "Fields" Affect Us
00:58:28 — Ancient Spiritual Practices & Modern Science
01:00:46 — Frequency, Entrainment & the Body
01:03:06 — Properties vs. Powers: A Christian Boundary for Discernment
01:05:17 — Crystals, Metals & the Properties of Creation
01:07:15 — EMFs, Frequency & the Modern Environment
01:09:34 — Harmonizing EMFs & Looking at the Fruit
01:11:43 — Thoughts, Emotions & Your "Internal Pharmacy"
01:14:11 — The Placebo Effect & the Body's Capacity to Heal
01:16:31 — Brenda's Cancer Story & a Supernatural Encounter
01:20:15 — When Healing Tools Become Idols
01:22:37 — Making Informed Choices About Treatment
01:27:31 — Cancer Returns & Hearing God's Direction
01:31:26 — Mindset, Emotions & Healing
01:33:49 — Bringing Fear, Anger & Disappointment to God
01:36:14 — Knowing God's Voice in an Age of Deception
01:38:10 — Biblical Principles as a Plumb Line
01:40:29 — When Healing Becomes "Spiritual Archaeology"
01:42:54 — Simplicity, the Courts of Heaven & Religious Complexity
01:45:15 — When Protocols Replace Trust
01:48:26 — Fear, Emotional Frequency & the Body
01:50:48 — The Spirit of Truth vs. the Fear of Deception
01:52:45 — Grace, Identity & Living as Sons and Daughters
01:55:11 — Receiving God's Love Before Giving It Away
01:57:04 — Shalom Holistic Health & Brenda's Approach
01:59:16 — Frequency Modalities & Infopathy
02:01:42 — Walking in Shalom in a Chaotic World
02:04:01 — Why "Good Vibes" Aren't Enough
02:06:01 — Some Things May Be Fine—but Not Fine for You
Brandon and Lindsy welcome Vicki Joy Anderson back to continue their conversation on spiritual warfare—but once again, the discussion takes an unexpected turn. Rather than focusing on dramatic demonic encounters, they explore the quieter battlefield of confusion, spiritual fatigue, distraction, and false doctrine. The conversation moves through discernment, the dangers of chasing fringe topics for fascination, the responsibility of Christian teachers and podcasters, the gospel of the Kingdom, Gnosticism in modern Christianity, the meaning of ekklesia, and what Scripture actually presents as humanity’s ultimate hope. Throughout, they emphasize testing what we believe, keeping Jesus at the center, and recognizing that deceptive doctrine may be one of the most subtle forms of spiritual warfare.
They Only Come Out At Night Book
From Eden to AI Book
https://www.vickijoyanderson.com/
Her mom's book! Harps Unhung-->https://amzn.to/4wqqgpt
https://instagram.com/vickijoyauthor
00:03:00 – Ephesians 6 & the Armor of God
00:05:13 – Two Extremes of Spiritual Warfare
00:07:31 – The Covert Battlefield: Confusion & False Doctrine
00:09:55 – Testing the Spirits & Discernment
00:12:19 – Battle Fatigue, Thoughts & the Domino Effect
00:14:39 – Fringe Fascination, “Fluff” & Red-Pill Overdose
00:17:05 – When Exploring Darkness Serves the Gospel
00:19:21 – The Temptation of Sensationalism in Podcasting
00:21:46 – Teachers, Influencers & Greater Accountability
00:24:10 – The Unseen Impact of Faithfulness
00:28:52 – Bad Teaching & Real-World Consequences
00:31:16 – Have Christians Inherited Bad Theology?
00:33:35 – Jesus, the Road to Emmaus & Discipleship
00:35:55 – The Simplicity of the Gospel
00:38:15 – What Actually Unites the Church?
00:40:38 – The Gospel of Salvation vs. the Gospel of the Kingdom
00:43:04 – Covenant, Allegiance & What It Means to Follow Jesus
00:45:29 – Gnosticism & the Christian View of the World
00:47:46 – Ekklesia: Church, Assembly or Government?
00:50:10 – Why the New Testament Confronts Gnosticism
00:52:29 – Resurrection, the Body & Becoming Fully Human
00:54:42 – Eden, the New Earth & Humanity’s Future
00:57:08 – Rethinking Hell, Heaven & Human Destiny
00:59:32 – Are We Really Going to Spend Eternity in Heaven?
01:02:00 – The New Creation as God’s Temple
01:04:20 – Ancient Context & the Layers Added to Christianity
01:06:38 – False Doctrine as Spiritual Warfare
01:09:01 – Vicki’s Books & Where to Find Her
Author Heather L. L. Fitzgerald joins Brandon, Lindsy, and Jen to explore the redemptive power of fantasy, storytelling, and imagination. Heather shares the inspiration behind The Tethered World Chronicles, a Christian fantasy series filled with Bigfoot, giants, hidden realms, family, faith, and adventure. The conversation examines the lingering effects of the satanic panic, the difference between discernment and fear, and whether Christians can engage fantasy without embracing the darkness sometimes associated with it. Brandon also shares how fantasy literature helped him through depression, restored his sense of wonder, and reawakened his belief in a supernatural God. From Narnia and Harry Potter to fairy lore, the Nephilim, childlike faith, creativity, and imposter syndrome, this episode considers how good stories can open our eyes to hope, beauty, courage, and the larger story God is telling.
https://www.heatherllfitzgerald.com/
Amazon link to the series:
Link to Realm Makers
blog post mentioned about fantasy
Timestamps
00:00:06 – Good Fantasy, Hope, and Seeing Beyond the Present
00:00:28 – Introducing Heather L. L. Fitzgerald
00:03:12 – The Tethered World Chronicles Explained
00:05:06 – Bigfoot, Hidden Realms, Giants, and Eden
00:06:49 – Growing Up During the Satanic Panic
00:10:03 – How Heather’s Family Inspired the Books
00:14:55 – Christian Pushback Against Fantasy
00:17:59 – Good Nephilim and David’s Mighty Men
00:20:48 – Fantasy as a Parable on Steroids
00:23:42 – Fairy Bread and Gifts from the Fae
00:25:39 – Discernment, Convictions, and Gray Areas
00:26:51 – Harry Potter, Darkness, and Redemptive Themes
00:31:54 – Spell Books, Superheroes, and Christian Hypocrisy
00:35:37 – How Fantasy Helped Brandon Survive Depression
00:38:00 – Rediscovering the Supernatural Through Stories
00:40:09 – How Fantasy Made the Bible Feel Real Again
00:42:18 – Fantasy, Childlike Faith, and C. S. Lewis
00:44:07 – Joy, Nostalgia, and Eating the Meat
00:45:11 – Stories as a Framework for Wonder
00:46:46 – Phones, Doomscrolling, and the Loss of Imagination
00:47:34 – Jesus as the Ultimate Storyteller
00:48:58 – Writing, Creativity, and Imposter Syndrome
00:52:27 – Spiritual Themes Heather Discovered After Writing
00:53:02 – Writing the Third Book with God
00:56:35 – Heather’s Favorite Book in the Series
01:01:27 – Advice for Aspiring Fantasy Writers
01:03:03 – Realm Makers and Christian Speculative Fiction
01:04:23 – Becoming Who God Says You Are
01:06:31 – What Heather Is Writing Next
01:08:38 – The C. S. Lewis Writers Conference
01:10:35 – Where to Find Heather and Her Books
01:11:05 – A Future Narnia-Inspired Story
In this thought-provoking rewind episode, Brandon is joined by Amy from Eyes on the Right to explore biblical patterns surrounding the last days, the increase of knowledge, technological acceleration, spiritual deception, AI, transhumanism, UFO narratives, and the importance of discernment. Rather than encouraging fear or sensationalism, this conversation challenges believers to recognize recurring biblical patterns, remain anchored in God's Word, and rely on the Holy Spirit to navigate an increasingly confusing world. Above all, this episode is a call to pursue wisdom over speculation and Christ over conspiracy.
Timestamps
00:00:28 – Rewind Introduction: Why This Conversation Matters
00:01:39 – As in the Days of Noah: Setting the Stage
00:04:00 – What Really Happened in the Days of Noah?
00:06:28 – Gnosticism, Occult Knowledge & the Pursuit of Hidden Wisdom
00:07:07 – Daniel 12:4 and the Increase of Knowledge
00:08:53 – "Knowledge Is Power" and the End-Time Deception
00:09:41 – The Danger of Chasing Every Rabbit Trail
00:11:14 – When Christians Begin Questioning Scripture
00:13:36 – Wisdom, Sorrow & Solomon's Warning
00:14:18 – Genesis 6, DNA, and the Days of Noah
00:16:01 – Gender, Transhumanism & the First Chapters of Genesis
00:18:26 – A Seed War: Altering God's Creation
00:20:49 – GMOs, Food, and the Pattern of Corruption
00:21:31 – Is Satan Deceived by His Own Lies?
00:23:09 – Luciferian Narratives and Reprobate Minds
00:25:22 – AI, Ancient Technology & the Return of Old Patterns
00:27:42 – The Metaverse, Phones & Losing Touch with Creation
00:29:45 – History Repeats: The Pattern Before the Flood
00:30:53 – UFOs, Disclosure & End-Time Deception
00:34:23 – Truthers, Psyops & Learning Discernment
00:36:46 – Don't Fall for the "Everything Is a Psyop" Trap
00:38:57 – Information Overload and Spiritual Distraction
00:41:23 – Angelic Beings, Hybrids & Ancient Mysteries
00:43:00 – Giants, DNA & the Shroud of Turin Theory
00:45:10 – Relics, Cursed Objects & Spiritual Counterfeits
00:47:27 – Controlled Opposition & Testing Every Spirit
00:49:52 – Taking a Break from the Fringe
00:52:16 – Countermeasures, Spiritual Warfare & Staying Grounded
00:54:28 – What Might the Antichrist Actually Look Like?
00:59:12 – A Physical Antichrist, Patterns & Biblical Consistency
01:01:31 – Torahism, the Law & the Finished Work of Christ
01:03:53 – Patterns, Discernment & Avoiding Deception
01:06:13 – Law, Grace & the Difference Between Justice and Legalism
01:07:58 – Final Encouragement: Stay Anchored in Christ
01:08:31 – Amy's Closing Prayer
Government hearings. Whistleblowers. UFO disclosure. Alien claims. Christians calling everything demonic.
But what if the real answer is far more complicated?
Dr. Jonathan Kendall joins Brandon to explore the growing evidence surrounding UFOs and UAPs while challenging the simplistic explanations often offered from every side of the debate.
Together they discuss government evidence, consciousness, high strangeness, extradimensional realities, ancient encounters, quantum physics, biblical worldview, and why the phenomenon may force us to rethink how we understand reality itself.
Rather than choosing between "aliens" or "demons," this conversation asks whether we've been asking the wrong questions all along.
https://x.com/JKendallMD
https://jonathankendallmd.com/
Timestamps:
00:28 Introduction and welcome back Dr. Jonathan Kendall
02:41 Jonathan's lifelong interest in UFOs and the paranormal
03:56 His grandfather's mysterious West Virginia UFO encounter
05:27 Has Jonathan ever had a UFO experience himself?
07:20 What convinced him UFOs are a real phenomenon?
09:55 Project Blue Book and the overwhelming evidence
13:31 The strongest evidence for UAPs today
15:37 Government secrecy, disclosure, and finding the truth
17:08 Are we actually moving toward disclosure?
19:14 Extraterrestrial vs. extradimensional vs. spiritual explanations
21:02 Beyond Cartesian dualism: a new way of understanding reality
23:08 The case for the extraterrestrial hypothesis
25:04 Why Jonathan ultimately leans toward the extradimensional view
27:20 Separating genuine encounters from misidentifications
29:28 Super Psi, consciousness, and paranormal experiences
31:49 Why reality isn't simply "either/or"
32:47 Are aliens really demons?
34:37 Logic, conspiracies, and the danger of flattening reality
36:58 Jacques Vallée, Diana Pasulka, and Christian perspectives
39:14 What Jonathan hopes readers take away from his book
40:41 Jinn, fairies, folklore, and ancient parallels
44:00 Biblical examples of the physical and spiritual overlapping
45:55 Time travel, quantum physics, and the transfiguration
47:18 Where to connect with Jonathan and his work
48:04 Thoughts on the new disclosure movie
49:11 "We need to get away from the idea that UFOs are demons."
49:56 Jonathan's final encouragement to Christians
Forgiveness is one of the most necessary parts of the Christian life, but it is also one of the most misunderstood. In this episode, Brandon and Sandy sit down with Dr. Everett Worthington to talk about what forgiveness actually is, what it is not, and why reconciliation is something different altogether. Dr. Worthington shares the tragic story of his mother’s murder and how that moment forced him to live out the very forgiveness he had spent years studying and teaching. The conversation explores decisional forgiveness, emotional forgiveness, rumination, resentment, justice, boundaries, and what happens inside us when unforgiveness takes root. Dr. Worthington also walks through his REACH model and offers practical help for those who feel stuck in pain, anger, or grief. This is a powerful, honest, and hope-filled conversation for anyone wrestling with what it means to forgive without pretending the wound never happened.
Ev's Book https://a.co/d/01UMgKXo
Ev's Website -https://www.evworthington-forgiveness.com/
Timestamps
00:08 Forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing
00:28 Welcome to the Unrefined Podcast
00:51 Introducing Dr. Everett Worthington and the topic of forgiveness
03:13 Dr. Worthington’s early work studying forgiveness
05:36 The murder of Dr. Worthington’s mother
07:41 Wrestling with anger after tragedy
10:06 Realizing he had to face forgiveness personally
12:29 Forgiveness does not erase justice
14:56 Defining forgiveness through stress and coping
17:12 Understanding the injustice gap
19:37 Different biblical ways to respond to injustice
21:57 Decisional forgiveness and emotional forgiveness
24:17 Restraint, the brain, and choosing not to retaliate
26:41 The difference between forgiveness and reconciliation
29:00 Boundaries, toxic relationships, and reconciliation
30:22 What it means to love your enemy
32:50 The REACH model of forgiveness
35:12 Giving the gift of forgiveness
37:32 When hurt comes back after forgiving
39:51 Anger, fear, and the body’s protective response
42:14 Rumination and unforgiveness
44:35 Vengeance, grudge-holding, and gender differences
47:02 Decisional forgiveness, emotional forgiveness, and well-being
49:07 Matthew 6 and “forgive to be forgiven”
51:25 Forgiveness, salvation, and God’s judgment
53:51 A word for listeners carrying deep wounds
55:36 Practicing forgiveness over time
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