Unchained

Latest Episodes:

The Chopping Block: Why Circle CEO Jeremy Allaire Is So Optimistic About Stablecoins' Future - Ep. 541 Sep 07, 2023

Show notes

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest news. This week, the group sits down with Circle CEO Jeremy Allaire to discuss how the USDC stablecoin issuer responded to the banking crisis that started at the end of 2022, what PayPal’s new stablecoin offering means for Circle and the rest of the industry, and whether central bank digital currencies (CBDCs) represent real competition for stablecoins.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, TuneIn, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights:

how the collapse of FTX and other companies led to a de-banking crisis for the industry
what the Circle Reserve Fund is
how the banking crisis in early 2023 caused a "flight from safety"
how regulatory clarity has improved in the aftermath of the banking crisis
why Jeremy actually hopes PayPal's recently launched PYUSD is successful
why Tarun believes Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) are one of the most "boring concepts" within the industry
whether CBDCs pose a threat to businesses that issue stablecoins such as Circle
Whether the status quo on stablecoins in the U.S. of knowing-your-customer on redemption and minting, but not on holding, is likely to continue.

Hosts:

Haseeb Qureshi, managing partner at Dragonfly
Robert Leshner, founder of Compound
Tarun Chitra, managing partner at Robot Ventures

Guest:

Jeremy Allaire, CEO of Circle

Disclosures

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Friend.tech: The Legal and Tax Ins and Outs of This Year’s Hottest Crypto App - Ep. 540 Sep 05, 2023

Show notes

Friend.tech, a decentralized social media platform in which you can buy and sell “keys” in your friends on X (formerly known as Twitter) whose value can go up and down, has become a viral sensation, racking up as many as 100,000 users since launching on August 10. Should keys be considered securities and thus regulated by the SEC? How should gains and losses be taxed? And how private should users assume their communications and transactions on the platform are? Securities and banking law professor at George Mason Law School JW Verret, and tax partner and co-head of the Digital Assets and Blockchain Practice at Fried Frank Jason Schwartz, share their thoughts.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights:

how Friend.tech works and how the price of keys is determined
how Friend.tech is different from many other past attempts at creating a decentralized social media platform
whether the keys offered by Friend.tech could be deemed securities by the SEC
what wrapped Friend.tech tokens are and whether these could be considered securities
why the traditional approach to crypto taxation is bad for most Friend.tech taxpayers
what the tax implications of Friend.tech airdrops are
what Friend.tech users should assume about their privacy on the app
what the future holds for Friend.tech

Thank you to our sponsors!

Guests:

J.W. Verret, Associate Professor of Law at George Mason Law School
Previous appearance on Unchained: Coinbase's Legal Action Against the SEC: How It Will Likely Unfold
Jason Schwartz, tax partner and co-head of the Digital Assets and Blockchain Practice at Fried, Frank
Friend.Tech Shows How Complicated Taxing Crypto Transactions Can Be by Jason Schwartz

Links

Decrypt: Friend.tech Renames Its Token—But Is It Even Legal?

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Does Grayscale’s Win Against the SEC Mean a Spot Bitcoin ETF Will Be Approved? - Ep. 539 Sep 01, 2023

Show notes

This week’s emphatic ruling in favor of Grayscale in its suit against the SEC to convert its massive bitcoin trust into an ETF generated plenty of hopium among the bitcoin faithful that a spot bitcoin ETF will get approved soon and open a flood of investment in bitcoin. What are the odds of that truly happening now, though, and if it did, how much additional money could wind up being invested in bitcoin as a result? Also, which companies’ applications would get approved first and how would the various products compete with one other? Bloomberg’s senior ETF analyst Eric Balchunas separates the hype from the reality in answering these questions and more.

Show highlights:

why Bloomberg increased the likelihood of a Bitcoin ETF being approved this year from 50% to 75%
how the ruling exceeded the expectations of the legal analysts at Bloomberg
why it's important that the ruling was a bipartisan decision
whether, from a legal perspective, it's "weird" to deny a spot ETF but approve a futures one
how a spot Bitcoin ETF would act as a bridge for Baby boomers to invest in crypto
what the two most likely SEC responses to the ruling are
what the likely timelines for an SEC spot Bitcoin ETF approval or disapproval would be
whether Gary Gensler's agency will approve Ethereum futures ETFs in the U.S.
why BlackRock's and Fidelity's ETFs are more likely to be approved first, according to Eric
how the different ETFs would compete in the market
why spot Bitcoin ETFs pose a serious threat to crypto exchanges' businesses
Eric's estimate of how much additional money would pour into Bitcoin if a spot Bitcoin ETF is approved

Thank you to our sponsors!

Guest

Eric Balchunas, Senior ETF analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence

Links

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The Chopping Block: Coinbase’s Paul Grewal on Why the SEC Is Going After Crypto So Aggressively - Ep. 538 Aug 31, 2023

Show notes

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, and Tarun Chitra, chop it up about the latest news. This week, the gang goes in depth with Coinbase chief legal officer Paul Grewal to discuss Grayscale’s win in its court case against the SEC, Coinbase’s ongoing dust-up with the SEC, the onerous new crypto reporting regulations proposed by the U.S. Treasury, and the unsettling legal arguments behind the government crackdown on Tornado Cash.

Show highlights:

why Paul considers the court ruling in favor of Grayscale in its case against the SEC “nothing short of monumental”
how much it actually matters if a spot Bitcoin ETF gets approved
what options the SEC has now to pursue its position
why BlackRock may have applied for its spot Bitcoin ETF when it did
how the SEC 'changed its tune' and went from approving Coinbase’s S1 to suing them in a federal court, according to Paul
how the collapse of FTX may have affected the SEC’s view of Coinbase
why Coinbase has decided to wage its battle against the SEC so publicly
when Paul expects a final decision to be made on the SEC’s lawsuit against Coinbase
what Paul would do to regulate the digital asset industry if he were Gary Gensler
whether the Treasury Department’s extensive proposed reporting regulations mean the crypto industry is “screwed”
why Paul believes that the government’s crackdown on Tornado Cash is "dead wrong on the law"

Hosts

Haseeb Qureshi, managing partner at Dragonfly
Tom Schmidt, general partner at Dragonfly
Tarun Chitra, managing partner at Robot Ventures

Guest:

Paul Grewal, chief legal officer of Coinbase
Previous appearances on Unchained:
Just a Coincidence? Coinbase and Polygon Lawyers See Bad Omens in SEC Crackdown
Coinbase’s Top Lawyer Calls SEC Wells Notice a ‘Massive Overreach’

Disclosures

Links

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Oracles: Does the Backbone of DeFi Need Fixing? - Ep. 537 Aug 29, 2023

Show notes

Oracles are all about bringing important data (mostly asset prices) onto the blockchain. As such, they’re a key part of decentralized finance. But oracle provider Pyth sees room for improvement as it relates to being more real-time than crypto incumbents like Chainlink. Mike Cahill, the CEO of a brand new Pyth-linked firm called Douro Labs, joins the show to explain the opportunity he sees in building better oracles.

Show highlights:

how Pyth Network works and what the upcoming Perseus upgrade consists of
Mike’s background in traditional finance
why oracles are necessary in crypto and what the challenges are for oracle providers
whether it’s hard for traditional institutions to participate in crypto protocols
what the four types of oracle solutions are and how they differ
how Pyth determines which data providers are allowed in the network and how that will change if it becomes more decentralized
why Mike compares the scalability of Pyth to how Facebook grew
why Douro Labs is being launched and why it will be solely focused on Pyth for now
the factors driving Pyth’s growth, according to Mike
Mike’s opinion on the current state of the crypto market and what the endgame is for Pyth

Thank you to our sponsors!

Guest:

Mike Cahill, CEO at Douro Labs.

Links

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Is This the End of DeFi? Why the US Government Is Going After Tornado Cash - Ep. 536 Aug 25, 2023

Show notes

On Wednesday, the U.S. Government indicted Tornado Cash developers Roman Storm and Roman Semenov for three counts of conspiracy involving a staggeringly large number: $1 billion in criminal proceeds. The U.S. Department of Justice attached North Korean hackers to a large portion of this sum, alleging that Tornado’s privacy tech enabled nefarious deeds. Amanda Tuminelli, chief legal officer of the DeFi Education Fund, joins the show to assess whether the U.S. Government got it right or is merely misguided in its understanding of how blockchain technology works. Should Tornado Cash devs be held to account for the criminal use of their software?

Show highlights:

why the U.S. Government says the cofounders of Tornado Cash facilitated money laundering
what the difference is between the concealment of potential proceeds of a crime versus the facilitation of that crime
why Amanda believes that if the government understood the technology they wouldn’t be making these allegations
whether the charges and the indictment will have implications for all software developers
whether these allegations could mark the “end of DeFi” in the U.S.
whether front-end applications in DeFi will need to mandate KYC checks for all users
how the charges appear to contradict earlier FinCEN guidance
how the DOJ will use the involvement of North Korean hackers to “make it look bad” for the jury
what the future of the case will look like and whether there will be a motion to dismiss the indictment

Thank you to our sponsors!

Guest

Amanda Tuminelli, Chief Legal Officer at DeFi Education Fund

Links

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The Chopping Block: All About That Base With Jesse Pollak - Ep. 535 Aug 24, 2023

Show notes

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest news. This week, Coinbase’s Jesse Pollak talks about the ambitious goals of Base, the new Optimism–based blockchain from the publicly traded crypto giant. With the viral success of Base-based Friend.Tech, Jesse discusses the Base team’s ambitious goals to onboard “a million builders, a billion users.” Is this the long-heralded path to scaling Ethereum?

Show highlights:

why Jesse says it’s still “day one” for Base
the reason behind Base’s “one million developers, one billion users” slogan
what the advantages of Base are compared to other layer 2 blockchains
how Base accounts for the fact that it doesn’t have a token to incentivize developer activity
how MEV bots represent a big part of the transactions on Base, especially with the emergence of Friend.Tech
why Friend.Tech found early success despite being similar to previous efforts
Jesse’s response to the fact that fault proofs are not live on any of the OP Stack chains
how much of the revenue generated by Coinbase’s sequencer will be distributed to Optimism
whether Base and Optimism Mainnet compete with each other
how layer 2 chains are choosing different design paths and how that differentiates them

Hosts

Haseeb Qureshi, managing partner at Dragonfly
Robert Leshner, founder of Compound
Tom Schmidt, general partner at Dragonfly
Tarun Chitra, managing partner at Robot Ventures

Guest

Jesse Pollak, lead contributor at Base

Disclosures

Links

Unchained: Coinbase Launches a New Layer 2 on Ethereum
CoinDesk: Social Platform Friend.tech Gains 100K Users in Days Even in Depths of a Bear Market
TechCrunch: Friend.tech hype is skyrocketing, but will it actually reach the stars?

Decrypt: Base Daily Transactions Outpace Ethereum on Friend.tech Frenzy

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Can Maker’s Rune Christensen Fix the Sad State of DAO Governance? - Ep. 534 Aug 22, 2023

Show notes

The height of the last bull run was when MakerDAO cofounder Rune Christensen felt most disillusioned by DeFi and DAOs. “I didn’t even see how Maker was going to survive,” Christensen tells Laura Shin in the latest episode of Unchained. Now Christensen is leading an effort to help DAOs escape their trough of disillusionment. He says the ambitious “Endgame Plan” for MakerDAO seeks to overcome “the central issue of voter apathy.” Will it work or are DAOs doomed to fail?

Show highlights:

the disillusionment that comes with the growth of DAOs and the need for a new approach
Rune’s insights into the challenges that most DAOs face
how Maker plans to implement alignment engineering through tools, gamification, and incentives
what each phase of Maker’s “Endgame Plan” seeks to accomplish
the strategy behind Maker’s rebranding, including the launch of new tokens while maintaining MKR and DAI
the importance of governance boundaries in ensuring that participants follow the rules and contribute constructively
the goal to reach a state of ossification and certainty, similar to Bitcoin
the challenges of renaming tokens and the decision to keep the original brands
why Rune believes that Phase 2 of the Endgame Plan will change the industry
how SubDAOs will work to align incentives, improve the organization, and avoid ponzi schemes
what Maker’s “Atlas” is and how it intends to set boundaries
how Maker plans to use artificial intelligence
the role of delegates in the DAO and how users choose them
the difference between “dovish” and “hawkish” governance
what the motivation was for launching the Spark lending protocol
why the DAI Savings Rate (DSR) is not offered to American investors and Rune’s take on DeFi regulation
why South Korea and Japan are the best crypto environments in the world, according to Rune
whether Maker should be doing more to mitigate the influence of “whales,” given that Rune owns about 10% of the MKR supply

Thank you to our sponsors!

Guest:

Rune Christensen, Cofounder of MakerDAO
Previous appearances on Unchained:
Rune Christensen of MakerDAO Part 1: How to Keep a Crypto-Collateralized Stablecoin Afloat
Rune Christensen of MakerDAO Part 2: How Dai Stayed at $1 While ETH Crashed From $1,400 to $85
The Chopping Block: How to Manage MakerDAO, With Hasu and Rune
Rune Christensen of MakerDao on Its $15 Million From Andreessen Horowitz
Why It's so Hard to Keep Stablecoins Stable

Links

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SBF Behind Bars: Why Revoked Bail Is a Big Deal for Crypto’s Biggest Trial - Ep. 533 Aug 18, 2023

Show notes

Lawyer Brian Klein joins the show to explain why Sam Bankman-Fried being locked up makes it “much tougher” for his legal team. This week, the judge presiding over the case said SBF went too far in attempting to intimidate key witnesses – chief among them former Alameda Research co-CEO (and ex-flame) Caroline Ellison. Will a jail cell change SBF’s defiant tune ahead of a hotly anticipated October trial date? Klein weighs in.

Show highlights:

why the detention of SBF changes the dynamics of the trial preparation
why Brian believes that the appeal to the detention won’t prevail
whether these new conditions will lead to a request for a delay of the trial
whether the fact that SBF is now in jail will make him more interested in a plea deal
why both the prosecution and the defense have filed motions to limit allowable evidence and what that means for the trial
what the short-term future of the trial looks like
how long a trial like this would take to play out

Thank you to our sponsors!

Guest

Brian Klein, partner at Waymaker

Links

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The Chopping Block: How Wintermute Avoids ‘Zombie’ Exchanges, Base’s Early Success, Bank Fraud in the AI Era - Ep. 532 Aug 17, 2023

Show notes

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest news. This week, Wintermute CEO Evgeny Gaevoy joins the show to discuss market making when the crypto markets are quiet. Plus, an analysis of Base’s prospects following a surge of early interest. Also: Do you think bank fraud is going to run rampant in the AI era?

Show highlights:

how prop shops like Wintermute view the current state of the crypto market
how an organization like WIntermute interacts with DeFi platforms
Tarun and Evgeny attempt to squash some past beef
why Evgeny believes that some exchanges are “zombies”
whether this is a good time to build an exchange and how Evgeny would do it
how Base accomplished a big surge in its TVL and daily volumes
whether it’s possible for Coinbase to balance the decentralized nature of building a blockchain with a desire to minimize scams
how L2 sequencers have the power to censor transactions and the analogy to proof-of-authority chains
how friend.tech, the social app built on Base, works and why it got so much attention
why the crypto cognoscenti seemed to like friend.tech but hated BitClout, which is basically the same thing
what is the role of biometrics in securing crypto wallets and assets
whether bank fraud will increase or decrease because of advances in AI

Hosts

Haseeb Qureshi, managing partner at Dragonfly
Robert Leshner, founder of Compound
Tarun Chitra, managing partner at Robot Ventures

Guest:

Evgeny Gaevoy, CEO of Wintermute Trading
Previous appearance on Unchained: How Traders Are Thinking About the Merge — and a Potential ETHPoW Chain

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