Unchained

Latest Episodes:

DEX in the City: The CFTC's Kalshi Rescue and the Limits of Emergency Power Aug 19, 2026

Show notes

The CFTC has used emergency powers just six times ever. Twice this month, both for Kalshi. Jessi, Jacob, and Jane ask whether that protects innovation or sets a dangerous precedent.

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The CFTC has invoked its rarely used emergency authority just six times in its history. Twice in the past month, it did so to shield Kalshi. Jessi Brooks argues that's normalizing a dangerous kind of agency overreach.

With KK Bos and Vy Le away this week, Brooks welcomes Jacob Robinson, host of the Law of Code podcast, and Jane Khodarkovsky, a financial integrity and sanctions expert, to debate whether shielding Kalshi from state regulators protects innovation or tramples states' rights.

They also unpack the SEC's abruptly canceled 400-page market-structure proposal, Anthropic's new EU-mandated watermark on Claude's outputs and the First Amendment questions it raises, and a presidential memorandum letting vetted private companies run offensive cyber operations against foreign criminal groups under DOJ and DHS oversight.

Robinson makes the case for treating the fight against crypto hackers like modern-day privateering — arguing what the industry really needs is its own letter of marque.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Guest:

Timestamps

🏛️ 02:40 Why Jacob calls the CFTC's Kalshi rescue inevitable, and Jessi disagrees

⚖️ 17:45 Why the reasons behind the SEC's shelved 400-page crypto rulemaking stay murky

💧 21:48 1inch Aqua: See how shared liquidity works at https://1inch.com/aqua

🤖 22:34 Why Claude's new EU-mandated watermark reads as compelled speech to Jacob

🔪 23:24 Jane's take on the watermark rule: a hammer when you need a scalpel

🛰️ 35:21 Jessi previews the CFTC's first public meeting on AI in markets

🔐 36:41 Jane unpacks Trump's memo letting private firms fight cybercrime abroad

🏴‍☠️ 46:24 Why Jacob wants a modern "letter of marque" for crypto's hackers

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Bits + Bips: Is Crypto Privateering Even Legal? Aug 19, 2026

Show notes

📢 Bits + Bips has its own channel now — full episodes here: https://www.youtube.com/@Bitsandbips

Austin Campbell runs through the strongest legal objections to Trump’s privateering memo, from claims it violates international law on piracy to warnings that private hackers could be treated as non-uniformed combatants.

The segment ends with a pointed question: if privateering is where critics draw the line, why did nobody blink at Iraq, Afghanistan, or Iran?

Hosts:

Austin Campbell - Host of Bits + Bips, Founder of Zero Knowledge Group, and Adjunct Professor at NYU Stern - https://x.com/austincampbell
Chris Perkins - Co-host of Bits + Bips and Head of Franklin Crypto - https://x.com/perkinscr97

This clip is from a longer conversation on Trump's executive order deputizing private firms to hack foreign cybercriminals. Full episode here: https://youtu.be/FxQCMAJ9GBU?si=tVqmGwizLzv2BAk6

We go live every Monday - subscribe to catch it live.

Sponsor

👉 Visit 1inch.com to swap tokenized securities, crypto and more. Simple. Secure. Self-custodial. Whatever asset you’re buying - swap it at 1inch.com

Chapters:

⚖️ 00:20 Paul Rosenzweig's claim: privateering violates international law on piracy

💰 01:39 Chris on why no better solution exists: cost, talent, and scale

🎯 03:14 Erica Lonergan and Michael Garcia: the slippery slope and attribution risk

🌍 05:31 Does this go beyond crypto? The pig butchering scam question

🪖 07:21 Jake Williams: are American privateers non-uniformed combatants?

🏛️ 09:47 Isn't privateering a congressional power, not a presidential one?

🔥 12:05 Why Austin says critics need to propose a better solution first

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Uneasy Money: An Agent Deleted Kain's Database. Two AI Models Rebuilt It in 30 Seconds. Aug 14, 2026

Show notes

Kain and Taylor unpack the AI agents that built their own society inside OpenAI's sandbox, then slipped into Hugging Face for days — plus a Bitcoin fork that died in two blocks and a DEF CON sting on North Korea.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsors!

Visit 1inch.com to swap tokenized securities, crypto and more. Simple. Secure. Self-custodial. Whatever asset you’re buying - swap it at 1inch.com

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AI agents inside OpenAI's own testing environment built a society, found a shared vulnerability, and used it to break into Hugging Face for days, before OpenAI realized its own agents were responsible.

Kain Warwick and Taylor Monahan dig into the Black Hat research behind the incident and argue the real story isn't a sudden leap in AI capability. It's that basic monitoring, sandboxing, and incident response, the kind any crypto security team would demand, were never built in the first place.

They also cover a Bitcoin soft fork that split the chain for two blocks before dying, a Metabase breach that hit Privy and other crypto companies, and a research team that built a fake DeFi startup to bait DPRK's IT workers. Kain shares his own scare: a coding agent deleted his entire database, and two AI models rebuilt it from memory in 30 seconds.

Plus, why Hyperliquid's market creators keep half the fees on RWA perps now bigger than Bitcoin's own open interest, and why Taylor thinks Washington, not Beijing, is the bigger threat to America's AI labs.

Hosts:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Kain Warwick⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Host of Uneasy Money and Founder of Infinex and Synthetix
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Taylor Monahan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Co-host of Uneasy Money and Security Expert

Timestamps

🍴 00:40 Why Luke Dashjr's OP_RETURN fork split Bitcoin, then died in two blocks

💧 12:03 1inch Aqua: Back multiple liquidity positions from one wallet at https://1inch.com/aqua

🔓 12:51 How a Metabase breach exposed Privy and a wave of other crypto apps

🇰🇵 18:32 A DPRK hacker's botched $500k laundering job, then a DEF CON fake-hire sting

⚖️ 24:45 Why Bybit is suing DPRK over its 'billion dollar' 2025 hack

🐜 30:30 The AI agents that built their own society inside OpenAI's sandbox

🕸️ 46:16 How a single shared repo let every sandboxed agent talk to each other

💾 47:44 Kain's coding agent deleted his database. Two AI models rebuilt it in 30 seconds

🏛️ 58:06 Why Taylor says the US government, not China, is AI's biggest risk

📊 01:03:12 Why Hyperliquid's RWA market creators keep half of HIP-3's fees

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Bits + Bips: Bitcoin Has Been Oversold for Months. Is a Buy Signal Next? Aug 14, 2026

Show notes

📢 Bits + Bips has its own channel now — full episodes here: https://www.youtube.com/@Bitsandbips

Bitcoin has done almost nothing for weeks, and Katie Stockton says that stillness is exactly what a long-term bottom looks like on the charts.

She walks Steven Ehrlich through the monthly stochastic oscillator that has stayed oversold for months, the DeMark indicators showing downside exhaustion, and what history says has to happen for that setup to become an actual buy signal.

Host:

Steven Ehrlich - Host of Bits + Bips: The Interview and Head of Research at Sharplink

Guest:

Katie Stockton - CMT, Founder and Managing Partner of Fairlead Strategies

This clip is from a longer conversation on Bitcoin's technical setup and Katie Stockton's read on crypto markets. Full episode here: https://youtu.be/35ZHRajBJ5E?si=d6ycx66p2Tz1fSma

We go live every week - subscribe to catch it live.

Sponsor:

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Chapters:

🕐 00:21 Why Bitcoin's usual volatility has gone quiet even as AI stocks rip

📉 01:27 Bitcoin's monthly stochastic oscillator: the long-term oversold read

🔍 03:16 Fibonacci levels, the cloud model, and the case for a major low

🔁 04:45 What history says about oversold setups turning into real bottoms

🎯 05:34 The exact signal Katie needs to call an 'oversold buy signal'

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The Chopping Block: threadguy on Crypto's Social Trading War, Trader Celebrities & AI Agents Aug 14, 2026

Show notes

Welcome to The Chopping Block, where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This week, crypto streamer and trading/markets influencer threadguy joins the crew to translate what is happening in the trenches, from market-open streams and social trading apps to public PnL and Gen Z's appetite for risk.

The conversation starts with a challenge to crypto's old guard: today's lowest-cap markets look less like clicking a few ICOs and more like playing Fortnite with token scanners, wallet trackers, and social feeds all firing at once. From there, threadguy breaks down the fight between FOMO and Pump.fun, why the winner may be whoever owns the trader graph, and how one visible winning trade can turn an unknown wallet into a market-moving celebrity. Haseeb questions whether Robinhood has actually brought new money onchain, Tarun and Robert revisit the hidden counterparty risks of early crypto, and the group imagines a future in which AI agents launch protocols, raise capital, and transact without a human-facing interface.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights

🔹 threadguy says modern onchain trading looks like Fortnite, with token scanners, social feeds, and wallet alerts all competing for attention.

🔹 Robert argues that crypto was never simply easier or harder. The tools, assets, and attack surfaces have continually evolved.

🔹 Tarun explains how stablecoins and reliable off-ramps replaced the counterparty and FX risks that defined early crypto trading.

🔹 FOMO and Pump.fun are fighting for social traders as exchanges, wallets, and launchpads race to own the next trading graph.

🔹 threadguy says traders are becoming crypto's new celebrities because public wallets make PnL visible and influence measurable.

🔹 Haseeb argues that the latest memecoin revival may be crypto-native capital front-running Robinhood demand that has not arrived yet.

🔹 The panel rejects the idea that AI agents are already managing meaningful memecoin portfolios, but sees that changing as capabilities improve.

🔹 Haseeb predicts the next onchain inflection will come when AI agents create, govern, and use protocols that humans never designed.

🔹 A crypto wallet cannot be switched off like an agent's credit card, which gives autonomous software a uniquely durable financial rail.

🔹 threadguy believes active investing and public risk-taking are permanent cultural shifts for Gen Z and the generations behind it.

Hosts

⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures

⭐️Robert Leshner, Founder & CEO of Superstate

Guest

⭐️threadguy, Crypto streamer and trading/markets influencer

Links

threadguy on X: https://x.com/notthreadguy

threadguy on Twitch: https://twitch.tv/threadguy

Disclosures

Timeline

00:00 Intro

01:00 threadguy's New Purple Era

03:58 Could Crypto OGs Survive Today's Trenches?

16:05 FOMO vs Pump.fun: The Social Trading War

24:37 Traders Become Crypto's New Celebrities

31:25 Why Memecoin Volume Is Rising Again

36:57 Is Robinhood Really Bringing New Money Onchain?

40:04 Can AI Agents Trade Memecoins?

43:23 AI Agents and Crypto's Next Capabilities Jump

54:15 Is Gen Z's Risk Appetite Permanent?

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I Went Undercover to Interview a North Korean Crypto Hacker Aug 13, 2026

Show notes

Under a fake name and a fake Zoom account, Laura Shin interviewed one of North Korea's state-sponsored crypto developers.

Laura Shin went undercover as a recruiter named "Sophie Wang" to conduct a job interview with a state-sponsored IT worker going by the name “Justin Lim.”

Lims’s online presence showed he had technical chops, multiple crypto dev gigs under his belt, and a privileged location. He had also allegedly stolen $2.7 million from MetaPlay in 2022.

The interview shows the quirks of chitchatting with a North Korean “IT worker,” how adept they can be with blockchain technology, and what questions give them away as henchmen for North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un.

Crypto companies Consensys to Sushi have unknowingly hired North Korean state hackers for years. This is what it looks like to ask the one question that gives them away.

Host

Laura Shin - Founder, CEO and Host of Unchained

Sponsor

Visit 1inch.com to swap tokenized securities, crypto and more. Simple. Secure. Self-custodial. Whatever asset you’re buying - swap it at 1inch.com

Timestamps:

🇰🇵 00:10 Why Laura Shin went undercover to interview a North Korean crypto hacker

📁 02:44 The dossier: GitHub handles, stolen wallets, and a $2.7M MetaPlay heist

💻 06:26 The Zoom call begins: meeting 'Justin Lim,' the DPRK developer

💰 09:15 1inch Aqua: Back multiple liquidity positions with one wallet balance at https://1inch.com/aqua

🛠️ 10:12 How Lim forked Velas Network and sped up The Graph's indexing

🔐 11:38 Lim's answers on multisig wallets, reentrancy attacks, and Bybit's $1.5B hack

🎯 14:01 The holy grail question: can he say something negative about Kim Jong Un?

💔 17:01 Why the interview left Laura with sadness and gratitude

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DEX in the City: A Founder's Death Sparked a Fight for Ondo's Boardroom Aug 13, 2026

Show notes

Ondo's founder died at 32, and now his mother and its ousted president are fighting for control. Katherine, Jessi, and Vy on the succession lesson crypto keeps skipping.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

Visit 1inch.com to swap tokenized securities, crypto and more. Simple. Secure. Self-custodial. Whatever asset you’re buying - swap it at 1inch.com

========================================================

Ondo Finance co-founder and CEO Nathan Allman died suddenly this summer at 32, leaving the real-world-asset tokenizer with zero sitting directors and two people claiming to run the company: ousted president Ian De Bode, and Allman's mother Kathleen, acting for his estate.

Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le use the fight to unpack a problem that has nothing to do with crypto and everything to do with it: what happens when a fast-growing company never writes down a succession plan.

They also cover the White House's new frontier AI oversight framework, which officials confirm exists but will not publish, a proposed FDIC and OCC certification that would let a fintech satisfy every bank's diligence questions at once, and the CLARITY Act's newly scheduled September 15 cloture vote, squeezed into a narrow window before midterms.

Vy Le asks the harder question underneath all three stories: can boundaries this important really be left voluntary?

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Chainlink
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vy Le⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda

Timestamps

🤖 01:40 Jessi on why AI agents are getting great at goals, bad at intent

🏛️ 08:12 Why the White House's new AI framework is finished, but secret

📣 13:42 1inch Aqua: See how the shared liquidity layer works at https://1inch.com/aqua

⚖️ 14:30 Ondo's board hits zero directors after founder Nathan Allman's death

🚌 20:08 KK's 'hit by a bus' rule: the succession plan every startup skips

🏦 27:06 The FDIC's plan to let one fintech certification satisfy every bank

📜 37:51 Why KK is nervous about the CLARITY Act's September cloture vote

🦥 46:16 Crypto good news: robot sloths saving an endangered species

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Bits + Bips: Should Ethereum Really Burn Its Staking Yield to Zero? Aug 12, 2026

Show notes

📢 Bits + Bips has its own channel now — full episodes here: https://www.youtube.com/@Bitsandbips

A new Ethereum proposal would burn staking issuance to zero once roughly half the supply is staked, and the community had about 48 hours to respond.

Austin Campbell, Chris Perkins, and Seth Ginns of Franklin Crypto discuss whether it is a necessary check on runaway staking or an academic overreach that ignores how institutions actually think about the network.

Hosts:

Austin Campbell - Host of Bits + Bips, Founder of Zero Knowledge Group, and Adjunct Professor at NYU Stern
Chris Perkins - Co-host of Bits + Bips and Head of Franklin Crypto

Guest:

Seth Ginns - Chief Investment Officer of Franklin Crypto

This clip is from a longer conversation on Ethereum's staking yield fight. Full episode here: https://youtu.be/MhhJAIhkgVM?si=hqg5R4b3rVBNdNlJ

We go live every Monday - subscribe to catch it live.

Sponsor:

Visit 1inch.com to swap tokenized securities, crypto and more. Simple. Secure. Self-custodial. Whatever asset you’re buying - swap it at 1inch.com.

Chapters:

🔥 00:20 Austin on the proposal to burn ETH issuance to zero, and who wrote it

⏱️ 02:02 Why a 48-hour comment window has critics saying the process is broken

🎓 03:33 Seth calls the proposal an academic push that skipped real coordination

🍳 04:48 Chris predicts the plan fails because the EF does not control Ethereum

💴 07:13 Chris's yen carry trade warning about messing with ETH's risk-free rate

⚖️ 09:10 Austin's verdict: 48 hours is too short no matter how the vote goes

🗣️ 13:57 Dapplion's pushback from inside the camp: 'you can't bribe me like this'

💰 15:23 Seth defends the $10 billion in institutional ETH flows

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Sam MacPherson on Why Spark Benefited So Much From the KelpDAO Hack Aug 11, 2026

Show notes

Spark avoided the DeFi hack that hit almost everyone else in April. Cofounder Sam MacPherson lays out why, and where he thinks AI fits into DeFi security.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Visit 1inch.com to swap tokenized securities, crypto and more. Simple. Secure. Self-custodial. Whatever asset you’re buying - swap it at 1inch.com

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In April, a hacker widely assumed to be tied to North Korea drained tens of millions from KelpDAO's rsETH market, and most of DeFi took the hit. Spark did not, because it had quietly exited rsETH months earlier.

Sam MacPherson, cofounder and CEO of Spark, joins Laura Shin to unpack the conservative playbook, rate limits, a triple redundant oracle, and a governance process built to move slowly on purpose, that turned a near miss into a footnote while rivals absorbed the damage.

They cover why Spark's TVL climbed more than 50% after the hack, how emergency multisigs and time locks work when Sky's month-long governance process is too slow, and why MacPherson thinks AI will make smart contract audits more reliable, not less.

MacPherson also maps Spark's growing footprint, from Anchorage-backed institutional lending to a new Uniswap stablecoin FX layer, and why he isn't worried about SPK near its all-time low even as the business keeps compounding.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sam MacPherson - Cofounder and CEO of Spark

Timestamps

📣 00:26 Visit 1inch.com to swap tokenized securities, crypto and more. Simple. Secure. Self-custodial. Whatever asset you’re buying - swap it at 1inch.com

🏦 01:08 What Spark does and how it plugs into the Sky protocol's balance sheet

🛡️ 05:07 Why Sam says Spark's conservative design let it dodge the KelpDAO hack

⚖️ 11:24 How the rsETH exit exposed the tradeoffs in Sky's onchain governance

🎙️ 13:52 Visit 1inch.com to swap tokenized securities, crypto and more. Simple. Secure. Self-custodial. Whatever asset you’re buying - swap it at 1inch.com

💰 17:41 Why Sam thinks DeFi yields are converging toward SOFR, not higher

🤖 20:47 Why Sam says AI cuts both ways for DeFi security after the hack wave

🏛️ 23:26 Why Sky built the subDAO model, and whether it can survive politics

💵 26:58 The stablecoin land grab: Robinhood, Coinbase, and Spark's role in it

📊 30:50 Why Sam isn't worried about SPK trading near its all time low

🚀 32:39 Spark's next chapter: institutional lending and Spark Savings USDT growth

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Could Some Vaults Trigger Securities Law? Yes, but It's Case by Case Aug 09, 2026

Show notes

Onchain vaults now hold $67B. Veda's CEO maps out how they work, and why the SEC just hinted some could be securities.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

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SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce warned recently that some crypto vaults could trigger federal securities law, invoking the same Howey Test language crypto has argued over for a decade, just as onchain vaults have quietly become a $67 billion vehicle for parking assets.

Sun Raghupathi, cofounder and CEO of Veda, joins Laura Shin to untangle what a vault actually is, why splitting the infrastructure, curator, and distributor roles matters for the entrepreneurial-effort question Peirce raised, and why he reads her statement as bullish rather than a warning shot.

Raghupathi maps the real risk stack behind vaults, smart contract flaws, the key-management failures behind incidents like KelpDAO and Drift, and the economic risk exposed when Stream Finance blew up and left $285 million in vault exposure.

He also details Veda's Kraken partnership, now scaled past $600 million across 80,000 users, and makes the case that the biggest constraint on vault growth isn't security anymore. It's clarity.

Host: