Unchained

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**Unchained**

Crypto assets and blockchain technology are about to transform every trust-based interaction of our lives, from financial services to identity to the Internet of Things. In this podcast, host Laura Shin, an independent journalist covering all things crypto, talks with industry pioneers about how crypto assets and blockchains will change the way we earn, spend and invest our money. Tune in to find out how Web 3.0, the decentralized web, will revolutionize our world.

Latest Episodes:

Two VCs on Why the 4-Year Cycle Is Dead, DATs & Hyperliquid vs. Binance - Ep. 892 Aug 27, 2025

Show notes

Subscribe to the new Bits + Bips channels!

📺 YouTube
🎧 Podcast → Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Fountain
🐦 X / Twitter

Is crypto no longer moving in predictable four-year waves?

From the rise of DATs and stablecoin-specific chains, to Hyperliquid challenging Binance itself, the industry is fracturing into segments with winners and losers.

In this episode, Hack VC’s Peter Hans and DBA’s Jon Charbonneau debate whether Solana is next in line for a TradFi pump, why ETH suddenly flipped from dead to indispensable, and how onchain exchanges could finally free projects from Binance’s grip.

Thank you to our sponsors!

Re
Mantle

Guests:

Peter Hans, Partner and Global Head of Business Development at Hack VC
Jon Charbonneau, co-founder and general partner of DBA

Links:

Rob Hadick’s tweet on the DAT trend
Vinny Lingham’s tweet on the locked SOL in DATs
Unchained:

Timestamps:

🎬 0:00 Intro
🎯 2:44 Whether the DAT trend is peaking or just getting started
🧾 10:57 Whether SOL DATs include locked funds from the FTX estate
🙅‍♂️ 11:52 Why Jon hasn’t touched any of these products
📈 16:28 Why Peter still sees long-term value in these vehicles
🔥 20:24 Why ETH is suddenly hot in TradFi and how SOL could follow
🏦 28:49 What makes a stablecoin-specific chain attractive
😶‍🌫️ 32:42 How crypto overlooked privacy for far too long
🔗 38:48 What it’ll take for stablecoin chains to win the payments game
⚠️ 45:39 Whether stablechains could hurt Ethereum, Tron, or Solana
🔍 47:46 Which stablechain has the best shot at success
💸 52:07 Why Hyperliquid beat Robinhood in trading volume
🧨 56:00 How Hyperliquid could break Binance’s listing chokehold
🕵️‍♂️ 59:23 What makes anonymous, no-KYC products appealing
📉 1:01:30 Whether the 4-year crypto cycle is officially dead

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The Chopping Block: Robinhood’s Vlad Tenev on Tokenized Privates, 24/7 Stocks & AI-Verified Code - Ep. 891 Aug 22, 2025

Show notes

Altcoin froth meets real-asset rails. Vlad explains why Robinhood built an L2, how tokenized stocks—and even private shares like OpenAI/SpaceX—could trade on-chain, and what that means for accreditation, access, and the public/private wall. Plus: DATs, DTCC in a tokenized world, and AI that formally proves smart contracts.

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This week, Robinhood co‑founder/CEO Vlad Tenev joins to explain Robinhood Chain, why they chose a Layer 2 over a Layer 1, and the plan to bring tokenized stocks — including private shares — on‑chain. We get into the OpenAI/SpaceX kerfuffle, accreditation rules, and whether permissionless tokenization erodes the public/private boundary. Then we zoom out to 24/7 trading, Digital Asset Treasuries, and how formal verification (Lean proofs) could make smart contracts safer.

Show highlights

🔹 Robinhood Chain L2 vs. L1 – Why Vlad Tenev chose a Layer 2 over a Layer 1 for tokenized stocks and real-world assets.

🔹 Tokenized Stocks & Private Shares – How Robinhood could put U.S. equities and private company equity (OpenAI, SpaceX) on-chain via SPVs and secondaries.

🔹 OpenAI/SpaceX Tokenization Debate – Issuer consent vs. permissionless exposure: what the kerfuffle reveals about private markets on-chain.

🔹 Retail Access & Accreditation Reform – Moving from wealth-gated accreditation to disclosure + self-certification so more investors can participate.

🔹 Ex-US Rollout for Tokenized Equities – Stablecoin-style playbook with KYC/geofencing and permissionless assets where allowed.

🔹 24/7 Trading for Stocks – From 24/5 to 24/7 markets; what this means for DTCC, transfer agents, and market plumbing.

🔹 Wallet + Chain + Custody Stack – Vertical integration advantages: pricing, UX, and liquidity when Robinhood owns more of the rails.

🔹 Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs) – Yield dynamics, mNAV compression, and how DATs stack up against staking ETFs.

🔹 Memecoins vs. Real Assets – “You can buy memes but not OpenAI” paradox and why investor-protection rules feel backward.

🔹 AI-Verified Smart Contracts – Lean proofs, formal verification, and reducing smart-contract risk beyond manual audits.

🔹 Harmonic’s “Aristotle” – Vlad’s AI hitting IMO gold-medal-level math performance and what that means for code safety.

🔹 Robinhood’s Next Decade – Retail super app → B2B/institutional rails and ex-US expansion for tokenized finance.

Hosts:

⭐️ Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly ⭐️ Robert Leshner, CEO & Co-founder of Superstate⭐️ Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures⭐️ Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly

Guest:

⭐️ Vlad Tenev, CEO & Co-founder of Robinhood

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

01:52 L2 vs. L1 Trade-Offs

04:19 Tokenized Stocks on Robinhood Chain

07:56 Private Markets Onchain

16:10 Accreditation Reform & Compliance

21:47 24/7 Trading for Equities

31:05 Public vs. Private Boundary

32:59 Memecoin Paradox vs. Real-Asset Tokenization

35:27 Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs)

37:50 Robinhood’s Business Mix

41:38 Retail to Institutions: Global Expansion

46:44 Harmonic AI & Lean Proofs

54:48 Safer Smart Contracts Beyond Manual Audits

Disclosures

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The LayerZero/Wormhole Bidding War Shows How to Value a Crypto Business - Ep. 890 Aug 22, 2025

Show notes

The drama is heating up in crypto M&A. LayerZero, the omnichain interoperability protocol, shocked the market with a $110 million bid to acquire Stargate DAO — the very bridge it originally launched. Then Wormhole jumped in, asking the DAO to pause the vote so it could make a counter-offer.

This episode unpacks the first-ever so-called onchain bidding war: how to value DAOs like real businesses, why LayerZero and Wormhole are fighting over Stargate, and whether this deal marks the beginning of a consolidation wave across crypto.

Guests David Nage of Arca and M&A advisor Lawson Bae of Relayzero break down the numbers, the strategy, and what this turning point means for the industry.

Visit our website for breaking news, analysis, op-eds, articles to learn about crypto, and much more: unchainedcrypto.com

Thank you to our sponsors!

Guests:

David Nage, VC Portfolio Manager at Arca
Lawson Bae, Founder of Relayzero

Links:

Unchained:

Timestamps: 🎬 0:00 Intro 🧱 2:57 Why LayerZero wants to buy Stargate, the bridge it launched 💸 8:36 Whether the $110 million offer from LayerZero was actually fair 🕵️‍♂️ 14:07 How Wormhole may be trying to make things difficult for its biggest rival 📊 16:35 Why David thinks the $110 million number can be justified 📈 21:07 How the number of daily active users factors into valuing crypto projects 🔢 27:07 What a “reasonable multiple” for Stargate could look like 🗳️ 30:34 How the Stargate DAO should approach this pivotal decision 🤝 34:49 Why this deal shows that crypto M&A is booming

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Companies Are Competing to Bring Crypto to the Masses. Who Is Best Positioned? - Ep. 889 Aug 21, 2025

Show notes

Subscribe to the new Bits + Bips channels!

📺 YouTube
🎧 Podcast → Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Fountain
🐦 X / Twitter

Crypto is moving past speculation — and into the battle for mass adoption.

In this episode, Phantom CEO Brandon Millman and Pudgy Penguins CEO Luca Netz join Unchained to debate who will own the next hundred million users. Will it be product-led startups, Web2 giants like X and Meta, or crypto-native apps like Phantom? From payments to trading wars to the “everything app” dream, they unpack where the real value will accrue — and why the easy money era for entrepreneurs is over.

Thank you to the sponsors who make this show possible!

Guests:

Brandon Millman, CEO and co-founder of Phantom
Luca Netz, CEO of Pudgy Penguins

Timestamps:

🎬 0:00 Intro

🚧 3:34 Why Brandon still thinks it’s a great time to build in crypto

⚡ 5:55 How Luca sees this moment as an “inflection point” for the industry

👥 9:36 What Brandon and Luca’s personal journeys reveal about building in Web3

🌍 18:07 Who’s best positioned to onboard the next wave of users into crypto

💸 25:05 How distribution is key and why Luca desperately wants to invest in Phantom 😀

💳 37:00 Who might win the payments race and what gives them the edge

📱 51:26 Whether Solana’s Seeker phone has any real shot at breaking through

🔗 58:32 How Robinhood might use Privy and Bridge to dominate the crypto stack

⚔️ 1:01:17 What the new crypto trading wars say about Robinhood, Coinbase, and Kraken

🤔 1:06:05 Whether Coinbase lacks a good product team

📲 1:10:36 Whether the “everything app” dream actually makes sense

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Crypto Firms, Fintechs and Banks Hope to Dominate Stablecoins. Who Will Win? - Ep. 888 Aug 15, 2025

Show notes

Stablecoin-focused blockchains are popping up everywhere. Stripe, Circle, and more are betting they can dominate payments. But are these chains even needed? And will Ethereum ever be ready for real-world assets?

Austin Campbell, NYU professor and founder of Zero Knowledge Consulting, joins Unchained to cut through the hype. From why “the market eventually eats you” to how consumers, not companies, could be the real winners, Campbell unpacks the competitive landscape and warns that the ultimate champion might be someone who isn’t even on the field today.

Thank you to our sponsors!

Guest:

Austin Campbell, NYU Stern professor and founder and managing partner of Zero Knowledge Consulting

Links:

Unchained:

Fortune: Top crypto VC Matt Huang to lead Stripe blockchain Tempo as CEO, stay at Paradigm

Timestamps:

🎬 0:00 Intro

💸 4:23 Whether the world really needs stablecoin-specific blockchains

🧪 9:45 How Stripe’s Tempo chain could gain an edge in the payments game

🌐 12:25 Why Circle’s Arc might struggle to stand out

🏆 15:19 Who could emerge as the winner of the stablecoin payments race

🗺️ 20:35 What the broader stablecoin chain landscape looks like right now

🏦 23:36 Whether crypto companies have a real shot at disrupting traditional finance

🙋‍ 27:51 Who could end up being the biggest winners

🧱 31:52 Why Ethereum may not be ready for the RWA moment

🔮 34:52 Who’s best positioned to capitalize on the next wave of blockchain-based payments

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The Chopping Block: Corpo Chains, Monero’s AI Vampire Attack, and DAT Mania - Ep. 887 Aug 14, 2025

Show notes

Altcoin season meets corporate blockchains as Circle and Stripe launch their own L1s, Monero suffers the biggest 51% attack in history (powered by an AI named “Garth”), and the crew debates whether the DAT boom is heading toward equilibrium or mania.

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. In this episode, the crew dives into the surprising altcoin rally and asks whether ETH still counts as an alt. The big news: Circle unveils Arc, Stripe leaks Tempo — and crypto Twitter is not impressed. We explore why major fintechs are launching their own chains instead of using Ethereum L2s, and whether stablecoin-centric blockchains are the future or just profit grabs.

Then: the wildest headline of the week — Monero gets hit with a 51% attack by Qubic, a project training an AI called “Garth,” in what might be the largest attack of its kind. We break down the game theory, the proof-of-work vs. proof-of-stake debate, and what this foreshadows for Bitcoin’s security decades from now.

Also: Trump’s executive order opens the door for crypto in 401(k) plans, we speculate about a future GPU debt market crisis, and dissect the state of play in Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs) — including whether yield advantages over staking ETFs mean we’re only halfway to mania.

Show highlights

🔹 ETH vs. Alts – Is Ethereum still an altcoin, or has it graduated to “major” status?

🔹 Circle’s Arc & Stripe’s Tempo – Why are fintech giants launching their own L1s instead of using Ethereum L2s?

🔹 Crypto Twitter Backlash – The ethos clash between “public goods” culture and corporate profit motives.

🔹 Monero’s 51% Attack – Qubic’s AI Garth mines enough hash power to take over Monero as a “proof of concept.”

🔹 Game Theory & Chain Security – Why PoW is fun (and dangerous) to reason about, and how PoS differs.

🔹 Bitcoin’s Future Risk – How tail emissions (or lack thereof) could leave BTC open to similar attacks.

🔹 401(k) Goes Crypto – Trump’s executive order allows digital assets in retirement accounts.

🔹 GPU Debt Crisis Fanfic – Tarun’s prediction for a future financial meltdown.

🔹 DATs Debate – Are Digital Asset Treasuries sustainable, or primed for a spectacular unwind?

🔹 Yield Edge over ETFs – Why DATs may outperform staking ETFs in capturing on-chain yield.

⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️Robert Leshner, CEO & Co-founder of Superstate

⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures

⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly

Democratizing Access To Alternative Assets For 401(K) Investors

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/08/democratizing-access-to-alternative-assets-for-401k-investors/

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

01:01 Crypto Market Sentiments

02:29 Circle’s Arc & Stripe's Tempo

07:34 Corporate Chains vs. L2 Solutions

17:57 Monero's 51% Attack by Qubic

27:11 Real-World & Protocol Incentives

29:33 Monero's Tail Emission & Bitcoin's Future

34:39 Trump’s Executive Order: Crypto in 401(k)s

37:15 Next Financial Crisis? GPU Debt Crisis

41:15 DAT Mania Potential & mNAV Compression

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Bits + Bips: Why ETH Is Soaring and How Long The Rally Can Continue - Ep. 886 Aug 13, 2025

Show notes

Ethereum’s rally has captivated the market, but is it really about the GENIUS Act and stablecoins, or just raw flows?

In this episode of Bits + Bips, Alex Kruger, Ram Ahluwalia, Steven Ehrlich, and special guest Sid Powell of Maple Finance, dive deep into what’s driving ETH, the macro forces shaping crypto’s next leg up, and whether traders are completely wrong about the Fed’s next moves.

From the potential flood of TradFi capital onto the blockchain, to the battle for stablecoin dominance, to whether Solana is about to get a major boost, the conversation dissects the signals in today’s market.

Hosts:

Alex Kruger, Founder of Asgard
Ram Ahluwalia, CFA, CEO and Founder of Lumida
Steven Ehrlich, Executive Editor at Unchained

Guest:

Sid Powell, CEO & Co-Founder of Maple Finance

Links:

CoinDesk.

Timestamps:

🎬 0:00 Intro

🚀 2:52 Why ETH has been rallying so aggressively

💪 10:14 Why Alex says the ETH rally will continue

📉 12:53 How BitMine and SBET ended up with such wildly different mNAVs

🧾 14:07 How treasury companies are planning to deploy their crypto onchain

🏛️ 18:45 What TradFi institutions are looking for in Maple and other onchain finance apps

📊 28:07 What Alex is watching to signal the next breakout in crypto prices

⛏️ 32:57 Who really makes money during this new gold rush?

🔥 42:15 Why SOL could be on the verge of a big announcement

🧠 44:58 What Ethereum’s core purpose is in this new market cycle

🌍 47:34 How macro indicators are sending mixed signals

🤖 54:31 What the NVDA and AMD revenue shares with the U.S. government mean for the future of capitalism could mean for the broader market

🏆 58:13 Who stands to win big in crypto if the Fed cuts rates

💵 1:03:26 What Circle’s earnings reveal about its business model right now

🛡️ 1:04:33 Whether Custodia Bank’s patent could block big banks from launching stablecoins

📉 1:11:35 Why markets might be totally mispricing the Fed’s next moves

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Which Types of Crypto Assets Make for Good Treasury Companies? - Ep. 885 Aug 12, 2025

Show notes

Subscribe to the new Bits + Bips channels!

📺 YouTube

🎧 Podcast → Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Fountain🐦 X / Twitter

In this episode of Unchained, Guy Young, founder of Ethena Labs, and Rob Hadick, general partner at Dragonfly, unpack the emerging wave of Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs) and why altcoins may be the next to follow Bitcoin and Ethereum onto public markets.

They explain why StablecoinX, a new infrastructure company within the Ethena ecosystem, is merging with a SPAC to go public on Nasdaq under the ticker “USDE,” anchoring its treasury with Ethena’s ENA token.

With $360 million in backing from investors like Dragonfly, Ribbit, Galaxy, and Polychain, the deal is testing whether public equity markets are ready for altcoin-native treasuries.

Guy and Rob also discuss why some crypto wrapper stocks are trading at massive premiums, how capital gets misallocated in crypto, and whether ETH staking rewards represent real yield or just inflation.

They debate whether this trend is creating lasting infrastructure or just new packaging for old narratives.

Visit our website for breaking news, analysis, op-eds, articles to learn about crypto, and much more: unchainedcrypto.com

Thank you to our sponsors!

Mantle

Re

Guests:

Guy Young, founder of Ethena Labs

Rob Hadick, General Partner at Dragonfly

Timestamps:

🎬 0:00 Intro

🧠 3:29 Why Ethena worked with a team launching an ENA corporate treasury company

💰 10:38 Ways to structure public crypto treasury vehicles

🕵️‍♂️ 16:53 Whether treasury vehicles are just a flashy wrapper for vaporware

📉 22:28 Why Guy says there’s way more VC capital than good ideas in crypto right now

📈 31:20 How some DATs are trading at eye-popping premiums

🤔 37:15 Why Dragonfly backed TLGY but skipped other Bitcoin, ETH, or SOL plays

🏗️ 40:24 How the structure of these public vehicles shapes their value

🔄 47:39 What makes convertible debt different from SPACs or PIPEs

🧾 49:20 How investors should think about these new crypto treasury companies

📊 55:43 How Wall Street is being pitched on Ethena and USDE

💥 59:16 Whether this trend is legit or just another bubble waiting to pop

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The Chopping Block: The New Ethereum Era: High-Stakes Trial, Wall Street Deals, and ETHZilla - Ep. 884 Aug 08, 2025

Show notes

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. With special guests: Avichal Garg, Managing Partner at Electric Capital, and Tomasz K. Stańczak, Co-Executive Director at the Ethereum Foundation. This week we get into one of the most pivotal moments in Ethereum’s history — from the Tornado Cash verdict and its chilling implications for developers, to Wall Street’s growing embrace of ETH through the launch of ETHZilla. The crew unpacks how this trial could redefine developer liability, why Ethereum’s narrative is shifting toward institutional adoption, and what the next decade could look like for the world’s most versatile blockchain. Whether you’re here for the legal drama, the market moves, or the inside scoop from Ethereum’s top builders and investors, this episode delivers the sharp analysis, big-picture context, and unfiltered hot takes you’ve come to expect from The Chopping Block.

Show highlights

🔹 Tornado Cash Verdict Breakdown – Haseeb explains the mixed outcome: a conviction on one count, hung jury on the most serious charges, and what it means for Roman Storm’s future.

🔹 Developer Liability in the Spotlight – Why the case sends a chilling signal to open-source and privacy protocol builders across the U.S.

🔹 Inside the Appeal Strategy – How contradictions between DOJ arguments and FinCEN guidance could shape Roman’s path forward.

🔹 Avichal’s Optimistic Take – Why he believes the American legal and political system will ultimately land on the right side of crypto innovation.

🔹 Historical Parallels – Comparing today’s battles over smart contracts and AI to the legal fights over corporations and cryptography in centuries past.

🔹 ETHZilla Unveiled – Avichal introduces Electric Capital’s new Ethereum treasury vehicle, how it’s designed to work, and its potential impact on DeFi.

🔹 Wall Street Meets Ethereum – The crew explores how institutional capital could become a massive “supply sink” for ETH.

🔹 Potential Shakeouts Ahead – Why some public ETH vehicles may face activist investor pressure, M&A, or liquidation if they stay subscale.

🔹 Ethereum Foundation’s Vibe Shift – Tomasz shares how the EF is engaging more openly with the community, leaning into finance, and guiding ecosystem coordination.

🔹 Ethereum’s Resurgence – From legal fights to market dominance, why ETH feels unstoppable heading into its next decade.

Hosts

⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly

Guests

⭐️ Avichal Garg, Managing Partner at Electric Capital

⭐️ Tomasz K. Stańczak, Co-Executive Director at the Ethereum Foundation

⁠Disclosures⁠

Links

Beyond Stablecoins: The Case for Ethereum by Maria Shen and Sanjay Shah (Electric Capital)

https://electriccapital.substack.com/p/beyond-stablecoins-the-case-for-ethereum

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

01:36 Tornado Cash Trial Verdict

06:16 Legal and Industry Reactions

09:25 Future of Crypto Legislation

21:13 Smart Contracts & AI Legislation

27:58 Introduction to ETHZilla

31:47 Community-Oriented Ethereum Initiatives

32:38 Wall Street Money in DeFi

35:08 Activist Investors & Market Dynamics

39:25 TradFi vs. DeFi

44:12 Ethereum Foundation's Cultural Shift

54:13 The Role of Ethereum Foundation

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Can the New Solana Phone Go Mainstream? And What the Roman Storm Verdict Means - Ep. 883 Aug 08, 2025

Show notes

Solana Mobile’s Emmett Hollyer joins to talk about the Seeker phone, and former prosecutor Sam Enzer breaks down the partial Roman Storm conviction.

This week’s episode features two big stories.

📱 First, Solana Mobile has begun shipping the Seeker, its second-generation crypto smartphone. Emmett Hollyer, GM of Solana Mobile, joins to explain:

What’s new in the Seeker and how it compares to the Saga
Why he says it’s the most secure phone for crypto
How Seed Vault, Seeker ID, and the SKR token could reshape crypto identity, incentives, and adoption

⚖️ Then, we unpack the Roman Storm verdict. The Tornado Cash co-founder was found guilty on just one of three charges. Former prosecutor Sam Enzer explains: