Stay ConnectedA podcast about technology and political economy /// Agitprop against innovation and capital /// Hosted by Jathan Sadowski and Edward Ongweso Jr., Produced by Jereme Brown /// Hello friends and enemies
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We discuss Chapter 7 of Autonomous Technology: “Complexity and the Loss of Agency.” Ed couldn’t be here for this episode, so we’re joined again by David Banks, who really stepped up to provide some great insights into understanding our socio-political relationship to complex technical systems designed to keep us in the dark about how and why the things we rely on actually work—and who they work for. We explore the dialectic between increasing complexity and diminishing agency, the poverty to cultural criticism vs. political analysis, and why technologies are not enchanted objects that grant us magical powers. You can find a free pdf of the whole book here: https://www.ratical.org/ratville/AoS/AutonomousTechnology.pdf • Read David’s article: Engineered Violence: Confronting the Neutrality Problem and Violence in Engineering: https://ojs.library.queensu.ca/index.php/IJESJP/article/view/6604 • Follow David: https://twitter.com/DA_Banks • Listen to Iron Weeds: https://twitter.com/ironweedspod • Listen to Reaction: https://twitter.com/reactionpodcast Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/ Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)
We're taking a week off recording so we're unlocking one of our favorite episodes from the Patreon feed for you to enjoy. Cold open: Ghost in the Shell. There is a long list of services that purport to be powered by sophisticated software, but actually rely on humans acting like robots. We discuss a critical concept—whether we call it Potemkin AI, fauxtomation, or ghost work—for understanding how so much so-called artificial intelligence is just a spectacle, a simulation, designed to mystify the labor that really turns the crank of smart systems sold as advanced innovations. They are the humans hidden inside mechanical minds. Some stuff we reference: • Potemkin AI | Jathan Sadowski: https://reallifemag.com/potemkin-ai/ • The Automation Charade | Astra Taylor: https://logicmag.io/failure/the-automation-charade/ • Ghost Work: How to Stop Silicon Valley from Building a New Global Underclass | Mary L. Gray Siddharth Suri: https://ghostwork.info/ • Behind the Screen: Content Moderation in the Shadows of Social Media | Sarah T. Roberts: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300235883/behind-screen • Difference and Dependence among Digital Workers: The Case of Amazon Mechanical Turk | Lilly Irani: https://read.dukeupress.edu/south-atlantic-quarterly/article-abstract/114/1/225/3763/Difference-and-Dependence-among-Digital-Workers Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/ Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)
After way too long, we finally got our friend and comrade Paris Marx—host of the excellent podcast Tech Won’t Save Us—on TMK for a great conversation ranging from the politics of Bitcoin and Tesla to the current state of tech media/criticism and need for counter-propaganda against Silicon Valley. Paris is always in the interviewer seat on TWSU, so we turn things around on him and also ask how he got into leftist analysis of tech and his forthcoming book on the techno-politics of transportation. Follow Paris on Twitter: twitter.com/parismarx Listen to Tech Won’t Save Us: techwontsave.us/ Read The Hammer newsletter: techwontsave.us6.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=3bfbe60f81172d5eff78e0dbe&id=09015cbec3 Support his wonderful podcast: patreon.com/techwontsaveus Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/ Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)
For a blockbuster of a book club episode, we’re joined by friend of the show David Banks to discuss Chapter 6 of Autonomous Technology: “Technological Politics.” We get into an analysis of reverse adaptation in large-scale socio-technical systems, the ways in which human ends become subjugated to technological means, and the relationship between the imperatives of the technological order and the state. Plus, what Marxist-Leninism could learn from a theory of technological politics—and vice versa. You can find a free pdf of the whole book here: https://www.ratical.org/ratville/AoS/AutonomousTechnology.pdf • Read David’s article: Lines of Power: Availability to Networks as a Social Phenomenon https://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/6283 • Follow David: https://twitter.com/DA_Banks • Listen to Iron Weeds: https://twitter.com/ironweedspod • Listen to Reaction: https://twitter.com/reactionpodcast Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/ Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)
We do a deep dive into the ideas of Lina Khan, the newly confirmed chair of the Federal Trade Commission. We discuss her large body of scholarship—digging up some of her lesser known, but arguably more important work—which provides sharp, critical, complex analysis of the political economy of platforms and seeks to revive antitrust regulation as a tool for tackling structural problems of corporate dominance. We also talk about how Khan, in her new position of regulatory authority, could actually make necessary material changes to contemporary capitalism. And, in the process, help create the conditions needed for bigger, better, more radical forms of democratic power. Some stuff we reference: • Market Structure and Political Law: A Taxonomy of Power | Zephyr Teachout and Lina Khan: https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1087&context=djclpp • Amazon’s Antitrust Paradox | Lina Khan: https://www.yalelawjournal.org/note/amazons-antitrust-paradox • Lina Khan’s Power Grab at the FTC | WSJ Editorial Board: https://www.wsj.com/articles/lina-khans-power-grab-at-the-ftc-11625517819 Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/ Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)
Rather than our usual doompilled analysis, we take a big dose of dumbpill as we spend the whole episode on a reading series of the stupidest article we have come across in a long time. Malcolm Gladwell – a man whose career is built on being an insanely incurious idiot – got to ride in a Waymo autonomous vehicle. He then wrote about it for Facebook’s newsletter Bulletin. Sorry in advance. Have we misunderstood the future of the automobile? | Malcolm Gladwell | Facebook Bulletin: https://malcolmgladwell.bulletin.com/489595605629557 Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/ Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)
It’s the tech news roundup, yeehaw! We look at a few recent stories in techno-politics worth discussing. First, businesses are blaming Amazon for draining the labor pool, not being exploitative enough, and making workers think they deserve higher expectations. Second, Didi, the largest ride-hailing app in China, has been banned from mobile app stores just days after it’s massive $4.4 billion IPO after an investigation by Chinese antitrust regulators into dubious data collection and cybersecurity practices by tech companies. Third, we lament the massive ecological consequences of “hyperscale” data centers being built in the Arizona desert and elsewhere. Some stuff we reference: • ‘Amazon effect’ sets the tone for US workers’ remuneration https://www.ft.com/content/9e8b9727-7955-44c4-955a-73375a7a20ef • Drought-stricken communities push back against data centers https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/drought-stricken-communities-push-back-against-data-centers-n1271344 Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/ Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)
We discuss the second half of Chapter 5 of Autonomous Technology: “Artifice and Order” — diving deeper into the social philosophy and political theory of technology. You can find a free pdf of the whole book here: https://www.ratical.org/ratville/AoS/AutonomousTechnology.pdf Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/ Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)
Further notes toward a ruthless criticism of digital capitalism — we lay out how the inherent contradictions of the “gig economy” are starting to slip into crisis, the need to recognize and reject the propaganda that has been embedded in our everyday way of thinking and talking about these companies, and the creative accounting practices they use to cover up the absence of value and instances of death. 200 years ago, the Luddites smashed the gig mills used by capital to rob them of autonomy. They did not set out to create a more humane version of machinic dispossession. Today, the task before us all is to do the same. Some stuff we reference: • The Motherboard Guide to the Gig Economy | Edward Ongweso Jr: https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkbk88/the-motherboard-guide-to-the-gig-economy • Digital Piecework | Veena Dubal: https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/digital-piecework • Uber CEO Works on App for a Day, Barely Makes Minimum Wage | Josh Marcus: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/uber-ubereats-ceo-dara-khosrowshahi-b1873651.html • Food delivery driver's death wasn't recognised by Uber Eats and his family are still fighting for the insurance | Patrick Begley: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-25/background-briefing-uber-eats-delivery-drivers-death/100239920 • The Taming of Tech Criticism | Evgeny Morozov: https://thebaffler.com/salvos/taming-tech-criticism Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/ Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)
We discuss the first half of Chapter 5 of Autonomous Technology: “Artifice and Order.” This is a really juicy chapter where Winner is really laying out fundamentals for his own theory of technological politics by asking the question of not just “Who governs?” but also “What governs?” So while we set out to get through the whole thing in one episode, to do the discussion and rumination of this analysis the justice it deserves, we decided to break it up into two episodes. We’re doing anti-efficiency praxis here by not giving into the temptations of speed – sometimes you should take it slow. In this half we lay out a series of key concepts for how to understand the immense accumulation of large-scale, complex, interconnected, and interdependent systems that define the conditions of modern society and life. The second half of Chapter 5 will be released on the premium feed next week! You can find a free pdf of the whole book here: https://www.ratical.org/ratville/AoS/AutonomousTechnology.pdf Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/ Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)
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