The Symbolic World

Latest Episodes:

403 - Why you might want to watch the new Superman movie Jul 25, 2025

Show notes

In this episode I reflect on the symbolism behind Superman as a figure rooted in American mythology and post-WWII identity. I also discuss the new Superman movie by James Gunn, which actually has an interesting twist that can help us understand not just the superhero archetype, but also the crucial and relevant question of the immigrant or convert.
https://youtu.be/RByli5eMoP8
Rapunzel and the Evil Witch is coming in August—and you can pre-order it now. If you missed the first 1,000 copies (which sold out in 26 hours!), here’s your chance next to get it. Pre-orders come with the audiobook I recorded and a companion worksheet to explore the story with your family. Go to https://www.rapunzelbook.com/ and get ready—this is where the fairy tales start to weave together.
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

402 - Universal History - Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin - The Spirits Beneath America: Fairies and Founding Fathers Jul 19, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of Universal History, I sit down with Deacon Seraphim (Richard Rohlin) on the 4th of July to explore the topic of fairies and titular spirits, especially as it relates to the US. We discuss America’s founding, the myth of Oedipus, heroes and monsters, boundaries of identity, stories of water spirits and crossing into territories, all to ask the question of whether fairies can be saved. As always, we’re weaving together myth, symbolism, and cultural insight to help reveal the patterns behind the stories that shape our world.
Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/htXHJ1WRSAg
Pre-order our new fairy tale story book, Rapunzel and the Evil Witch: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/products/rapunzel-and-the-evil-witch
COURSE: Scripture: The Key to Reality, presented by Seraphim Hamilton
This course is designed to help students appreciate the unique role the Bible plays in helping us step into the world as it truly is: a symbolic revelation of the Infinite God. Scripture is symbolic because it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the Archetype of the World. In a way, then, Scripture enfolds within itself the totality of the world, guiding its hearers to see an icon of Christ in each of God’s creatures: from trees to beasts to priests.
- Live classes are on Tuesday at 2 - 4 pm Eastern Time, starting June 10th through July 22nd, 2025
- Class Length: 5 sessions, 10 hours total
- Cost: 120 USD (108 USD for Involved patrons)
- Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/scripture-the-key-to-reality
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:45 - Intro music
02:12 - Introduction
04:22 - Titular spirits
10:03 - Oedipus: From the Bronze age
16:47 - A daemon / titular spirit
18:40 - Heroes becoming spirits
19:54 - The encounter with the Sphinx
21:46 - Killing a monsters
26:41 - Purification and the furies
31:43 - Understanding: Christ the Key
39:37 - America
46:23 - What are fairies
53:15 - Artifacts
58:08 - Magic
01:00:38 - 3 Stories about faeries
01:01:31 - Story 1
01:06:30 - Tying it in with St. Christopher
01:07:25 - Story 2
01:11:32 - Commentary
01:18:02 - Story 3
01:27:08 - American aboriginals
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

401 - Robin Hood: The Original Green Man (Nottingham talk) Jul 08, 2025

Show notes

I was invited to give this talk on Robin Hood in Nottingham—just a stone’s throw from Sherwood Forest—on the feast of Pentecost. What began as a reflection on a beloved folk hero opened into something deeper: a meditation on rebellion, trickery, legitimacy, and the strange holiness that's possible for jesters and outlaws. In this talk, I explore how Robin Hood, the Green Man, King David, and even figures from Islamic tradition and Arthurian legend, all point toward a surprising truth—that the margins of society can conceal servants of the true King. I hope you enjoy it.
Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/7Q4LBLmeeMw
COURSE: Scripture: The Key to Reality, presented by Seraphim Hamilton
This course is designed to help students appreciate the unique role the Bible plays in helping us step into the world as it truly is: a symbolic revelation of the Infinite God. Scripture is symbolic because it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the Archetype of the World. In a way, then, Scripture enfolds within itself the totality of the world, guiding its hearers to see an icon of Christ in each of God’s creatures: from trees to beasts to priests.
- Live classes are on Tuesday at 2 - 4 pm Eastern Time, starting June 10th through July 22nd, 2025
- Class Length: 5 sessions, 10 hours total
- Cost: 120 USD (108 USD for Involved patrons)
- Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/scripture-the-key-to-reality
Get early access to Rapunzel and the Evil Witch: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/rapunzel-and-the-evil-witch
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:30 - Intro music
01:56 - Introduction by Jonathan
03:34 - Introduction: The virtuous rebel
06:10 - Who does Robin Hood resemble?
09:40 - Green
14:25 - A trickster for God
16:39 - David
25:41 - He loses at the edge
39:24 - The Green man: Merlin
45:25 - Q&A starts: St. Christopher
46:39 - Sir Gawain and the Green Knight
48:55 - Maid Marian and the Virgin Mary
49:53 - Difference between giants and monsters
51:20 - Intention
53:01 - Robin Hood in politics
54:10 - Marksmanship
55:54 - Does the end justify the means
57:42 - Is Robin Hood religious?
59:06 - Locations and history
01:01:38 - Humor in Christianity
01:03:20 - Trickery
01:06:46 - What goes around comes around
01:08:15 - Downstream from the Gospel
01:11:44 - Christ vs Robin Hood in history
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

400 - A Dangerous Movie in the Best Way Possible Jun 30, 2025

Show notes

I had the pleasure of speaking with filmmaker Josh David Jordan about his new movie El Tonto Por Cristo. It’s a black-and-white art film set in a Texas monastery — poetic, strange, and deeply moving. What struck me most is how the film weaves together powerful Orthodox imagery, the mystery of the holy fool, all with a totally unique visual language. This isn’t just a message movie — it’s real cinema.
Check out the Kickstarter and be part of bringing this movie to theaters. This is a rare and important project.
El Tonto Por Cristo: A Cinematic Meditation. An Orthodox film set in a Texas monastery. Help bring this black-and-white story of beauty, holiness, & mystery to theaters worldwide.
https://www.eltontoporcristo.com/
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/748841722/el-tonto-por-cristo-a-cinematic-meditation
Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/pbM5VN9YvCE
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

399 - John Vervaeke - What Is Spirit? Jun 24, 2025

Show notes

What is spirit? This was one of my most meaningful conversations with John Vervaeke yet. As we prepare for the Midwestuary 2025 conference in Chicago, we explore how beings come into existence, the mystery of unity and multiplicity, and what’s really going on with AI, angels, and the spirit of community. John shares some powerful personal transformations as well. I hope you enjoy this deep dive into spirit, ontology, and meaning.
YouTube version: https://youtu.be/hqmSW3SgzHs
Register for the 2025 Midwestuary Conference in Chicago, August 22-24: https://www.midwestuary.com/
NEW COURSE: Scripture: The Key to Reality, presented by Seraphim Hamilton
This course is designed to help students appreciate the unique role the Bible plays in helping us step into the world as it truly is: a symbolic revelation of the Infinite God. Scripture is symbolic because it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the Archetype of the World. In a way, then, Scripture enfolds within itself the totality of the world, guiding its hearers to see an icon of Christ in each of God’s creatures: from trees to beasts to priests.
- Live classes are on Tuesday at 2 - 4 pm Eastern Time, starting June 10th through July 22nd, 2025
- Class Length: 5 sessions, 10 hours total
- Cost: 120 USD (108 USD for Involved patrons)
- Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/scripture-the-key-to-reality
- Get early access to Rapunzel and the Evil Witch: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/rapunzel-and-the-evil-witch
- Symbolism Masterclass course by Jonathan Pageau: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/symbolism-masterclass
- John Vervaeke's course on the Symbolic World, The Cognitive Science of Ritual: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-cognitive-science-of-ritual
00:00 - Intro by Jonathan
01:25 - Intro music
01:50 - Midwestuary conference details
03:42 - What is Spirit?
05:21 - John's response
08:22 - Fellowship
11:00 - Jonathan's response
13:34 - Why it's hard to think about unity and multiplicity
16:35 - Dualism in spirit
18:32 - Modern false dichotomies
24:19 - Jonathan: Spirit outside of minds?
30:57 - Are there non-psychological spirits?
33:42 - Gathered in man
35:55 - Reduction can go both ways
37:35 - The seat of self-consciousness
42:01 - A human centered view
43:36 - John: The standard of realness
49:30 - An embodied world for everyone
56:17 - Porosity between science and myth
01:00:39 - Breath
01:02:05 - A post-Kantian vision
01:05:52 - Exampting and group identity
01:10:40 - Liturgy and team spirit
01:17:48 - Are spirits just psychological?
01:20:26 - Prophesy
01:27:43 - How do we use technology?
01:34:01 - AI
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

398 - The Time for Orthodox Art is NOW Jun 11, 2025

Show notes

In this talk at the Orthodox Arts Festival of 2025, I share my vision for a renewal of Orthodox Christian art rooted in meaningful participation and true celebration. We are living through the collapse of modern aesthetics—art has become propaganda, entertainment, and distraction. But this cultural decomposition presents an opportunity for something truly transformative.
Orthodox art offers a profound alternative: not art as consumption or rebellion, but as participation, celebration, and enlightenment. Drawing on my work in children's literature, icon carving, and popular storytelling, I explore how we can reintegrate beauty, memory, and the sacred into every level of artistic creation—from liturgy to fairy tales.
If you're an artist, a parent, or simply someone longing for a more meaningful creative world, I invite you to join me in rediscovering what art is really for—and how it can lead us back to God.
YouTube version: https://youtu.be/WkQ1PP421nM
🕯️ Discover our books, courses, and more at http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
📖 Get early access to Rapunzel and the Evil Witch: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/rapunzel-and-the-evil-witch
NEW COURSE: Scripture: The Key to Reality, presented by Seraphim Hamilton
This course is designed to help students appreciate the unique role the Bible plays in helping us step into the world as it truly is: a symbolic revelation of the Infinite God. Scripture is symbolic because it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the Archetype of the World. In a way, then, Scripture enfolds within itself the totality of the world, guiding its hearers to see an icon of Christ in each of God’s creatures: from trees to beasts to priests.
- Live classes are on Tuesday at 2 - 4 pm Eastern Time, starting June 10th through July 15th, 2025
- Class Length: 5 sessions, 10 hours total
- Cost: 120 USD (108 USD for Involved patrons)
- Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/scripture-the-key-to-reality
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

397 - Nicholas Reeves - What Is Music? May 31, 2025

Show notes

In this conversation, I sit down with composer and church musician Nicholas Reeves to explore one of the great mysteries: music. Why does music move us so deeply? How does it reflect symbolic patterns in reality? We discuss the ancient and modern roles of music—from sacred liturgies to EDM dance floors—and ask whether the liturgy might be the ultimate artwork. We also dive into the contrasts between order and chaos in sound, the compression of human experience, and the sacred role of communal participation in worship. This discussion really opened new paths for me—I hope it does the same for you.
Nicholas’s work can be found at: https://www.nicholasreevesmusic.com
YouTube version: https://youtu.be/26ORdueGcIo
NEW COURSE: Scripture: The Key to Reality, presented by Seraphim Hamilton
This course is designed to help students appreciate the unique role the Bible plays in helping us step into the world as it truly is: a symbolic revelation of the Infinite God. Scripture is symbolic because it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the Archetype of the World. In a way, then, Scripture enfolds within itself the totality of the world, guiding its hearers to see an icon of Christ in each of God’s creatures: from trees to beasts to priests.
🗓 Live classes are on Tuesday at 2 - 4 pm Eastern Time, starting June 10th through July 15th, 2025
⏰ Class Length: 5 sessions, 10 hours total
💰 Register for Seraphim Hamilton's course before the end of May to get 15% off when you use the code EARLYSCRIP1 at checkout.
💰 Cost: 120 USD (102 USD with the discount)
👉 Register Today: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/scripture-the-key-to-reality
Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:29 - Intro music
01:55 - Introduction
02:50 - Understanding ourselves through music
10:22 - The human voice
18:56 - Rhythm
21:11 - Dance and what music is
24:40 - Variety and sameness
32:08 - Reinventing yourself
35:21 - Church music
43:57 - Continuity
46:56 - Moments in liturgy
49:30 - Music in America
54:54 - The complete work of art
59:14 - Making pop culture more participative
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

396 - Seraphim Hamilton - Scripture: The Key to Reality May 23, 2025

Show notes

In this conversation, I talk with Seraphim Hamilton about how scripture does more than tell a story—it reveals a symbolic pattern that runs through all of creation. We dig into how the Bible presents the world as a kind of cosmic temple, and how that vision unfolds through the Tabernacle, the life of Christ, and the Church.
Seraphim brings a deep knowledge of scripture and tradition to the table, and we touch on some of the key themes he'll be exploring in his upcoming course, Scripture: The Key to Reality. If you’ve been following my work on symbolism and biblical patterns, I think you’ll find this conversation both grounded and illuminating.
YouTube version: https://youtu.be/PpGKURlGayA
NEW COURSE: Scripture: The Key to Reality, presented by Seraphim Hamilton
This course is designed to help students appreciate the unique role the Bible plays in helping us step into the world as it truly is: a symbolic revelation of the Infinite God. Scripture is symbolic because it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the Archetype of the World. In a way, then, Scripture enfolds within itself the totality of the world, guiding its hearers to see an icon of Christ in each of God’s creatures: from trees to beasts to priests.
🗓 Live classes are on Tuesday at 2 - 4 pm Eastern Time, starting June 10th through July 15th, 2025
⏰ Class Length: 5 sessions, 10 hours total
💰 Register for Seraphim Hamilton's course before the end of May to get 15% off when you use the code EARLYSCRIP1 at checkout.
💰 Cost: 120 USD (102 USD with the discount)
👉 Register Today: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/scripture-the-key-to-reality
Seraphim Hamilton is an Orthodox Christian biblical commentator who explores the richness of Christ as He is unveiled in the Old and New Testaments. He has a Master of Arts in Early Christian Studies and a Master of Theology from Duke University. His thesis addressed the relationship between the theology of the Divine Name in Exodus and the writings of St. Dionysius the Areopagite. He is recently married with one daughter and produces regular reflections on Scripture on both Substack and YouTube.
Writings: https://seraphimhamilton.substack.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/kabane
Patreon: https://patreon.com/c/kabane
Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:23 - Intro music
01:49 - Introduction
02:43 - Scripture is the key to reality
09:17 - What's the difference between Christianity and Pantheism?
13:14 - Why the need for the Tabernacle?
16:56 - Dominion in the fall
21:23 - Cain vs Noah
25:27 - Universal History
26:24 - No temple in the Heavenly Jerusalem
29:57 - Converging on the same patterns
31:38 - Critical analysis of the Bible
37:27 - Second Temple literature
42:32 - Fractal breathing
47:36 - Transfigured clothing
-----------------------------------
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

395 - Beauty First: Envisioning a Civilization Worth Restoring (ARC Roundtable) May 16, 2025

Show notes

This is an informal roundtable discussion among friends and artists at the 2025 London ARC Conference that includes myself, Andrew Gould, Aidan Hart, Heather Pollington, Neil and Kate DeGraide from Dirt Poor Robins, Ben and Vesper Stamper, Martin Shaw, and John Heers. Amidst thousands of voices focused on policy and economics, we stepped aside to ask a deeper question: what does it mean to renew civilization through beauty?
Together, we explore how architecture, music, and the arts shape our perception of the world—and how the recovery of beauty might be essential for healing both culture and soul. There are no scripts here, just a shared sense of wonder, frustration, and conviction. We speak of cities and forests, temples and toasts, tradition and imagination… and what it truly means to see rightly again.
YouTube version: https://youtu.be/6oS5NYXut0c
SYMBOLISM MASTERCLASS
Join me this April for the Symbolism Masterclass, a 6-week deep dive into the essentials of symbolic thinking. Over 18 immersive hours, I'll guide you through the framework behind everything I've explored in 500+ videos—from heaven and earth to dragons, fairies, kings, conspiracies, Darwin, the Bible, and beyond.
🗓 Dates: Live classes every Wednesday at 1-4 PM Central / 2-5 PM Eastern time: 4/23, 4/30, 5/7, 5/14, 5/21, 5/28
⏰ Class Length: 3 hours each session
💰 Cost: $175 (Patrons at the Involved tier or higher qualify for 10% off)
Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/symbolism-masterclass
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
keywords:
ARC Conference, art, architecture, civilization, beauty, human experience, Christian culture, symbolism, design, architecture, music, art, beauty, creativity, orthodoxy, healing, abstraction, civic engagement, human experience

394 - The World War II Consensus is Breaking Down May 16, 2025

Show notes

Several years ago, I coined the phrase “watch the fool,” because in a world turned upside down, the fool can strangely point to what’s coming and in some ways play a role in restoring order —for good or for ill. For April 2025’s patron video, now opened up to the public, I reflect on how Kanye West has continued to play this role. He is not a prophet in the traditional sense, but a kind of tuning fork, embodying the contradictions and transformations unfolding in our culture before they happen. This becomes increasingly disturbing as the post–World War II consensus buckles beneath our feet…
Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/MfXxQW77cQA
SYMBOLISM MASTERCLASS
Join me this April for the Symbolism Masterclass, a 6-week deep dive into the essentials of symbolic thinking. Over 18 immersive hours, I'll guide you through the framework behind everything I've explored in 500+ videos—from heaven and earth to dragons, fairies, kings, conspiracies, Darwin, the Bible, and beyond.
🗓 Dates: Live classes every Wednesday at 1-4 PM Central / 2-5 PM Eastern time: 4/23, 4/30, 5/7, 5/14, 5/21, 5/28
⏰ Class Length: 3 hours each session
💰 Cost: $175 (Patrons at the Involved tier or higher qualify for 10% off)
Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/symbolism-masterclass
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

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