The Symbolic World

Latest Episodes:

313 - Fr. Andrew Damick - Redeeming Pagan Symbolism Oct 26, 2023

Show notes

Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick is Chief Content Officer of Ancient Faith Ministries. He has been podcasting since 2007 and is the host of Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy, Orthodox Engagement, and Roads from Emmaus, as well as co-host of The Lord of Spirits, The Areopagus, and Amon Sûl.
I had a wonderful conversation with Fr. Andrew about his latest project, The Wolf and the Cross. This podcast series documents his Orthodox pilgrimage to Lithuania, the last pagan nation in Europe.
We discuss how Eastern Orthodoxy deals with the traditions and symbols from paganism and how it adapts elements of non-orthodox branches of Christianity.
Listen to The Wolf and the Cross: https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/wolfandcross
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JOIN US FOR THE SYMBOLIC WORLD SUMMIT: https://thesymbolicworld.com/summit
Feb 29th - Mar 2nd, 2024
Tarpon Springs, Florida, US
Tickets start at $399
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PAST INTERVIEWS WITH FR. ANDREW
• Arise O God: A Cosmic Vision of the Gospel | https://youtu.be/6U7c_89FeWM
• The Areopagus Podcast: Storytelling by Subverting Subversion | https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/areopagus/storytelling_by_subverting_subversion_with_jonathan_pageau
• JRR Tolkien and The Applicability of Stories | https://youtu.be/QcQShPpbEgc
• Gods, Angels and Demons | https://youtu.be/NW_WlIurGtA
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⏯️ TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - Preview
00:28 - Intro music
00:52 - Introduction
02:59 - Second visit to Lithuania
03:00 - Lithuania on the border between Catholicism and Orthodoxy
04:05 - The last pagan nation in Europe (late 14th century)
05:42 - The backstory of Christianity and other religions
09:55 - God redeems or untwists pagan symbolism
13:22 - Transformation and creative engagement
19:14 - Germanic Paganism and Christianity
29:46 - Orthodox and non-orthodox Christians
37:47 - The Sun Cross
39:44 - Dievdirbys and Pensive Christ (Rūpintojėlis)
44:05 - The Hill of Crosses (Kryžių Kalnas)
48:45 - St. Peter Mohyla and Latinization
50:24 - All Souls Day in Lithuanian Orthodoxy (Vėlinės)
55:19 - Our Lady of the Gate of Dawn, Theotokos
57:16 - Our Lady of Pažaislis
1:03:04 - The porous nature of religious traditions
1:09:20 - Humility vs. the demonic spirit of polarization
1:11:32 - Conclusion
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LINKS
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My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.
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Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976
A small portion of the audio content in this episode belongs to Dirt Poor Robins. We have received explicit permission from Dirt Poor Robins to use their music in this video to advertise an event where they will be present as performing artists.
All content posted is merely for educational, commentarial, and informational purposes under Fair Use law. All rights and credit go directly to its owners. No copyright infringement intended.

312 - Kendelle Hoyer - Behind the Big Screen Oct 20, 2023

Show notes

Kendelle Hoyer is passionate about storytelling and art, which has been a life-long pursuit since childhood when she decided she wanted to work in animation. Since then, Kendelle has developed her craft of bringing fantastical stories to life. She has been privileged to work on feature films at major animation studios since 2008, and is currently working in Los Angeles as storyboard artist.
In this podcast episode, we discuss her work as an artist to put together movies for the big screen. We also discuss what makes a story precious, and how to approach creative storytelling.
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Preview
0:50 - Intro music
1:14 - Introduction
2:01 - Being a storyboard artist
3:17 - What's the difference between the head-of-story and the director?
4:43 - How symbolic thinking helps
5:12 - Story reels
7:05 - Planning
9:45 - A bad story
12:39 - Working on a project
14:35 - The early Pixar and Disney movies
16:31 - Protecting the creative environment
20:02 - The next wave of storytelling
22:20 - Finding the right character
22:57 - Story problem solving
25:54 - What did you study?
26:36 - Storytellers are important
27:44 - Stop complaining and start creating
29:39 - How has symbolic thinking influenced your work?
33:33 - Putting the story first
37:50 - The flow and dialogos
44:38 - The early Disney films
46:17 - AI
49:48 - AI images
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💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
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My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

311 - Ritualized Behavior From Animals to Church Oct 13, 2023

Show notes

There is a tendency to isolate religious behavior from other human behavior, which can make religious behavior seem arbitrary or ridiculous. In this week's video, I argue that the best way to understand religion, even from a purely materialist perspective, is to understand it as an extension of other types of ritualized behavior, even those we can find among animals.
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🗣 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
🔒 BECOME A PATRON
Website: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/pageauvideos
📱 SOCIAL MEDIA
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/TheSymbolicWorld
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathan.pageau
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

310 - Annie Crawford - C.S. Lewis on Progress, AI, and Gender Oct 09, 2023

Show notes

I had a great discussion with Annie Crawford. She’s written two wonderful articles for the Symbolic World Blog and is offering a course on C.S. Lewis’ Ransom Trilogy on the Symbolic World website. Check out our discussion about C.S. Lewis, AI, progress, gender, laughter, science, and the mystical.
Sign up for Annie’s course on the C.S. Lewis Ransom Trilogy. If you sign up now you will get the recordings of the first 10 lessons. The remaining 5 lessons on That Hideous Strength will be every Friday at 3pm CST / 4pm EST: https://the-symbolic-world.circle.so/checkout/cs-lewis-trilogy
Email us at inquiries@symbolicworldpress.com if you have any questions or reach out to Annie in our website community: https://the-symbolic-world.circle.so/home
Annie’s articles on the Symbolic World Blog:
- ‘Cosmos’: A Poetic Reflection on the Medieval Model: https://thesymbolicworld.com/content/cosmos-a-poetic-reflection-on-the-medieval-model
- Gender and the Cosmos: The Restoration of Worlds in C.S. Lewis’s Ransom Trilogy: https://thesymbolicworld.com/content/gender-and-the-cosmos-the-restoration-of-worlds-in-c-s-lewis-s-ransom-trilogy
Timestamps:
0:00 Coming up
0:27 - Intro music
0:51 - Introduction
3:21 - The Symbolic World community
4:22 - C.S. Lewis' Ransom Trilogy
6:14 - The disembodied head
7:20 - Gender and C.S. Lewis
13:31 - C.S. Lewis' approach to the topic
17:41 - The "third gender"
24:04 - The ending of "That Hideous Strength"
31:46 - Waters above and below
33:39 - Lewis and Dante
39:44 - Theology and "science"
46:31 - Barfield and Lewis: an original unity
53:30 - Merlin's Last Laugh
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🗣 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
🔒 BECOME A PATRON
Website: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/pageauvideos
📱 SOCIAL MEDIA
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/TheSymbolicWorld
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathan.pageau
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

309 - Jacob Howland - Technological Cannibalism Oct 03, 2023

Show notes

I had an amazing discussion with Jacob Howland about the fundamental question of technology. We investigate from both the Biblical and ancient Greek perspectives what technology is and its effects on the human spirit.
We discuss the notion of memory and recollection, Plato’s Phaedrus, the Biblical notion of garments of skin, ChatGPT and AI, work and leisure, technology’s effects on human capabilities, paganism and idolatry, intelligence, and “the matrix”, the internet, intuition, and much more.
Jacob Howland is the Provost and Director of the Intellectual Foundations Program at UATX, commonly known as the University of Austin.
His latest book is Glaucon's Fate: History, Myth, and Character in Plato's Republic (Paul Dry Books, 2018): https://www.amazon.com/Glaucons-Fate-History-Character-Republic/dp/1589881346
Jacob Howland’s website: https://www.jacobhowland.com/
His articles on Unherd: https://unherd.com/author/jacob-howlandunherd-com/
YouTube version of this podcast: https://youtu.be/o468OtytbVQ
Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:02 - Intro music
01:28 - Introduction
01:59 - Different narratives about technology
04:09 - Technology from the Greek perspective
05:01 - Plato's Phaedra - and fixing words
08:16 - Egypt
09:29 - Suppressing recollection
11:13 - The garments of skin
15:02 - Work - sorting chaos
18:17 - Human capabilities diminishing
19:53 - ChatGPT cannibalizes itself
22:06 - A pagan god that feeds on humans
23:52 - Human batteries
26:03 - Intuition - direct access to reality
28:49 - What do we mean by intelligence?
30:47 - Understand AI as idolatry
32:19 - The gold of the golden calf
34:53 - The tabernacle
35:33 - A body of power
37:39 - card: Beasts in Revelation
39:16 - Work and leisure
47:45 - Monastic life and leisure
49:18 - Not anti-technology
50:54 - The Henry Adams curve
56:56 - The Beast kills the whore
1:00:17 - Plato's cave
1:01:19 - There is no "solution"
1:03:24 - Prometheus’ cycle of desire
1:05:58 - The flip side of all of this
1:10:15 - Paradise Lost
1:11:09 - The need for transcendence
1:12:26 - Re-engage at the human scale
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🗣 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
🔒 BECOME A PATRON
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📱 SOCIAL MEDIA
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/TheSymbolicWorld
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan
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Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

308 - Fr. Stephen De Young - Biblical Symbolism: Uncovering Your Father’s Nakedness Sep 22, 2023

Show notes

Fr. Stephen De Young is writing an article for our upcoming publication, the Symbolic World Magazine, and he will also join us as a speaker for the Symbolic World Summit in February 2024. He is an amazing writer and speaker and has really helped me reach new heights in my understanding of Scripture.
In this discussion we specifically discuss certain sexual and revolutionary symbolism in the Bible, starting with when Ham “uncovered” his father, Noah’s, “nakedness”. Understanding this is a key to understanding Genesis 9, and an important aspect of Biblical storytelling.
Bio: Rev. Dr. Stephen De Young is Pastor of Archangel Gabriel Orthodox Church in Lafayette, Louisiana. He is also the host of the Whole Counsel of God podcast from Ancient Faith and author of the Whole Counsel Blog, as well as co-host of the Lord of Spirits podcast. Fr. Stephen holds a Ph.D. in Biblical Studies from Amridge University.
Registration for the Symbolic World Summit in Tarpon Springs, Florida, opens TODAY!
Date: Feb 29-Mar 2, 2024
Tickets start at $399: https://thesymbolicworld.com/summit
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Fr. Stephen De Young:
Lord of Spirits podcast: https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/lordofspirits
Fr. De Young’s books, podcasts, and blogs: https://www.ancientfaith.com/contributors/stephen_deyoung
Previous discussions with Fr. De Young on this channel:
- The Son of Man - with Fr. Stephen De Young - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8KkjD-sLQI
- Gods, Angels and Demons - with Fr. Andrew Damick and Fr. Stephen De Young - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW_WlIurGtA
- Hope for the Future and the Religion of the Apostles | with Fr. Stephen De Young - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsuxgepcNwQ
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Original YouTuber version of this podcast: https://youtu.be/GQgOYkzj0ek
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Timestamps:
0:00 // Preview clip
1:17 // Intro music
1:42 // Introduction
2:17 // Speaking at conference
3:28 // The legacy of Lord of Spirits
5:33 // Rediscovering the Old World
11:57 // A key in Genesis about Noah
16:23 // Uncovering the father's nakedness
20:09 // Why would Ham do this
25:03 // Usurpation in Scripture
30:06 // The positive side
31:10 // The sin at the beginning of a world
34:10 // Not too close or too far
39:10 // In Christ's story
40:57 // Conceding mediation
44:14 // A more mature understanding of unification
47:22 // Our conception of marriage and family
51:03 // St. Paul saying women must cover their heads
56:37 // Noah's sin
59:11 // Lot's sin
1:01:00 // Knowing your opponent
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💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🗣 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
🔒 BECOME A PATRON
Website: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/pageauvideos
📱 SOCIAL MEDIA
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/TheSymbolicWorld
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathan.pageau
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

307 - Gregg Hurwitz - The Search for Political Nuance Sep 15, 2023

Show notes

I sat down again with the American novelist and screenwriter, Gregg Hurwitz. Gregg was part of the Daily Wire+ Exodus series discussion panel with Jordan Peterson, so I thought it was a good time for us to talk about what we took away from those discussions, Exodus, Christianity, CS Lewis, the importance of ritual, temperance, and a nuanced approach to social matters.
Previous discussions:
- New Think - with Gregg Hurwitz: https://youtu.be/nR53MJd8VLI?si=AAIcbBjs4x1pHt9X
- Patterns in Politics and Storytelling | with Gregg Hurwitz: https://youtu.be/ykDHAapyaZ4?si=pNF0KV7uIInAMiUs
Exodus series with Daily Wire+ and Jordan Peterson: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQAppIsV0MmKYhGeFGJsy-dS&si=VxB_bJsEU-QvWHPW
Gregg’s website: https://gregghurwitz.net/
Original YouTube version of this podcast: https://youtu.be/tOhS9Gm_a5I
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Timestamps:
00:00 // Preview
00:41 // Intro music
01:06 // Introduction
01:56 // Gregg's experience with the Exodus series
04:57 // Let the fringe be the fringe
13:06 // Layers of participation
15:04 // The essence of the laws
16:28 // Values and a foundation
20:20 // Humility
22:06 // A structure in which to navigate
25:39 // The necessity of ritual
31:04 // CS Lewis and The Great Divorce
35:28 // Freedom
38:25 // Hell
43:39 // Hypocrisy and accusation
48:09 // The Nine Worthies
54:34 // The messiness of life
1:03:22 // Guilt by association
1:08:54 // Pluralistic ignorance
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💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🗣 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
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Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathan.pageau
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

306 - The Search for Participation in Contemporary Art Sep 08, 2023

Show notes

Apologies for the audio quality.
In this lecture, I take you through contemporary art history and its desperate search for a proper means of participation in a desacralized world. This talk is a follow-up to a previous video I did, The End of Desacralization in Art. This time I want to explore with you some specifics on how contemporary art has to confront alienation, power dynamics, and the minimization of yet yearning for ritual, participation, and community.
Original YouTube version of this lecture: https://youtu.be/EWc7TKm9jho
This lecture follows up on a previous video lecture I posted, The End of Desacralization in Art: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WYh20sYBsQ&t=813s
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Preview
0:59 - Intro music
1:24 - Introduction
2:27 - The pendulum swing of deincarnation
3:12 - Brancusi: Find the essence
5:41 - More examples: Kandinsky and Mondrian
8:59 - Opposites attract: Idealism and constructivism
12:38 - Alienation of the art object
17:53 - One extreme calls the other
19:10 - Remember participation
21:12 - Marina Abramovic
28:56 - Resembling rituals
31:55 - Eating as ritual participation
36:37 - Joseph Beuys: Atonement
43:51 - Anselm Kiefer: The weight of history
47:02 - Trapped in the art world
50:55 - Hope
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💻 Website and blog: http:-www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https:-linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🗣 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: https:-thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
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Website: https:-thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
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Facebook: http:-www.facebook.com/TheSymbolicWorld
Twitter: http:-www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan
Instagram: https:-www.instagram.com/jonathan.pageau
Our website designers: https:-www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

305 - Richard Rohlin - How to Read Like a Medieval Person Sep 02, 2023

Show notes

In this episode of the Universal History series, Richard Rohlin presents a talk about 4 things we must take into consideration in order to think like a pre-modern Christian. This is a primer for approaching old texts like Beowulf, the topic of our upcoming online course on the Symbolic World website.
Original YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/CyJaaX60QKw
THE BEOWULF COURSE
Learn more: https://thesymbolicworld.com/news/the-beowulf-course-by-richard-rohlin-and-jonathan-pageau
Also, please note that the course will happen on our Symbolic World website Circle community, so please make sure that you’re signed up (Free): https://thesymbolicworld.com/login
We are excited to present our very first online course hosted directly on The Symbolic World website!
Richard Rohlin and Jonathan Pageau will build on their popular Universal History series by offering an in-depth exploration of the Epic Poem, Beowulf.
Promo video: https://youtu.be/hUjxvEw3uCY?si=jozwytuh-tcHQe7i
You are invited to participate in this 6-week live online course every Thursday starting on Thursday, September 7th, at 2:00pm Eastern Time. Each session will be 2 hours long. The course will conclude on October 19th. (Note: No class on September 21th.)
All materials will be provided, except for a copy of R.M. Liuzza's translation of Beowulf: https://www.amazon.com/Beowulf-Broadview-Literary-Texts-Liuzza/dp/1551111896
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Preview
0:44 - Intro music
1:08 - Introduction
4:35 - C.S. Lewis
7:09 - Modern VS Ancient
11:10 - Tourists in the Church
15:11 - 1) Authorship and textual "errors"
20:16 - Why do we have 4 gospel accounts?
22:52 - What is a book? Pre-modern, Modern, and Post-Modern
30:13 - Authorship
33:11 - Transmission
37:40 - 2) The meaning of words and things
55:47 - 3) Heaven above, earth below
1:04:00 - Moved by love
1:5:25 - Space and time
1:7:39 - The metric system
1:10:20 - Chronos and Kairos
1:17:11 - Meaning in hindsight
1:20:55 - 4) The anthropocosmic vision
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💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🗣 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
🔒 BECOME A PATRON
Website: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/pageauvideos
📱 SOCIAL MEDIA
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/TheSymbolicWorld
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathan.pageau
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

304 - The Subtle Bodies of Angels Aug 25, 2023

Show notes

Many of the Church Fathers talk about the notion that angels have what we call "subtle bodies", that angels are not completely incorporeal (God only is completely incorporeal) but their bodies are also not circumscribed in flesh, but in mind.
In this formerly patron video, I explain what the Church means with this description of angels and how it's something we can relate to in the general human experience.
Original YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/MTuDl7o-1bE
The discussion with Rafe Kelley I mention near the end: https://youtu.be/06Osa0EmJVc
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Timestamps:
0:00 // Introduction
0:43 // Intro music
1:08 // What are subtle bodies?
2:13 // St. John Damacene
6:32 // Perelandra by C.S. Lewis
9:19 // Our subtle bodies and the hierarchy of angels
14:06 // True analogies
15:23 // Jesus prayer
18:13 // Continue: True analogies
20:17 // Examples
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💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🗣 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
🔒 BECOME A PATRON
Website: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/pageauvideos
📱 SOCIAL MEDIA
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/TheSymbolicWorld
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathan.pageau
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

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