The Pivot

Latest Episodes:

Sissy Goff & David Thomas: The Five Skills Every Kid Needs Apr 28, 2026

Show notes

What if the thing we're most trying to protect our kids from is exactly what they need? Sissy Goff and David Thomas — children's therapists, co-hosts of Raising Boys and Girls, and founders of Daystar Counseling — join Andrew Osenga on The Pivot to talk about their new book Capable and the growing crisis of capability they're seeing in kids and teens. From the rise of anxiety and depression to kids who won't get their driver's license or text a new friend, Sissy and David break down what's going wrong, and more importantly, what parents can do about it. They talk about the five skills every kid needs, why stress and discomfort can be growth-giving, and how parents can stop getting in the way of the independence their kids are desperately craving. This is one of those conversations that will change how you parent starting today.

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

"Kids learn that they're capable by experience." - Sissy Goff

"When I exercise, I don't get stronger unless I stress my muscles. The exact same thing is true of our souls." - David Thomas

"You will experience some really, really hard things and loss will knock the wind out of you. And there will be something transformative on the other side if you allow that to happen." - David Thomas

"The more connected kids are with their parents, the more healthy adults they grow into." - David Thomas

"Parenting is so hard, and it is so important that we are encouraging each other, that we're cheering each other on." - Sissy Goff

Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:

www.RaisingBoysAndGirls.com — Sissy and David's website

“Capable” by Sissy Goff and David Thomas

“I Am Capable” — the companion workbook for “Capable”

“The Daystar Dogs” book series by David Thomas and Sissy Goff

“Raising Boys and Girls” podcast by David Thomas and Sissy Goff

Daystar Counseling Center, Sissy and David's counseling practice in Nashville

Hope Heals — the organization run by Jay and Katherine Wolf, who wrote the foreword to “Capable”

Hopetown — Daystar's summer retreat program on Kentucky Lake

*Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!

*All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.

Guest’s Links:

Raising Boys & Girls Website

Raising Boys & Girls Facebook

Raising Boys & Girls Instagram

Raising Boys & Girls YouTube

Raising Boys & Girls TikTok

Raising Boys & Girls Podcast

Capable by Sissy Goff & David Thomas

I Am Capable workbook by Sissy Goff & David Thomas

Connect with Andrew:

How to Remember by Andrew Osenga

Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga

*The Pivot is produced in conjunction with

Four Eyes Media

Tim Timmons: Stop Working for God and Start Joining Him Apr 14, 2026

Show notes

Tim Timmons is a singer/songwriter, author, podcaster, pastor, cancer survivor, and—as of this year—the subject of a major motion picture. But this conversation isn’t really about the movie. It's about what it’s like to be Tim Timmons right now, in the middle of one of the busiest and most surreal seasons of his life. Andrew and Tim talk about what it means to stop working for God and start joining Him, why sorrow is a lot like manure (seriously), how Tim thinks about holding grief and gratitude at the same time, and what years of practicing obscurity have to do with the doors that are opening now. This one’s honest, funny, and surprisingly freeing—for anyone who’s ever tried to build their own little suburb in the kingdom of God.

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“I quit working for God and I said I'll never open a door again.” - Tim Timmons

"Sorrow sobers us and gives us a perspective we've never had before." - Tim Timmons

“My ministry is just being a re-presenter of the heart of God everywhere I am in the mundane and in the freaking awesome.” - Tim Timmons

"Once I stop working for [God] and just start hanging out with Him, I just become more beautiful." - Tim Timmons

Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:

Waking Up Again by Tim Timmons and Hilary Timmons

Tim's website

"I Can Only Imagine 2" — the movie Tim is featured in

*Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!

*All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.

Guest’s Links:

Tim Timmons’ website

Tim Timmons’ Facebook

Tim Timmons’ Instagram

Tim Timmons’ X

Tim Timmons’ YouTube channel

Connect with Andrew:

How to Remember by Andrew Osenga

Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga

*The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

Dr. Curt Thompson: Overcoming Anxiety Through Connection Mar 31, 2026

Show notes

What if the problem isn’t that you don’t know enough, but that you’re trying to change alone? In this episode of The Pivot Podcast, Andrew sits down with psychiatrist and author Dr. Curt Thompson to explore the intersection of neuroscience, faith, and emotional healing. Together, they unpack why anxiety is often rooted in the feeling of being alone in our suffering and how real transformation happens through connection, not just information. Drawing from interpersonal neurobiology, Curt explains how relationships shape the brain and why healing from trauma, shame, and painful memories requires safe, consistent community.

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“Anxiety is ultimately about my perception that I am being left alone with myself in my suffering.” - Dr. Curt Thompson

“We think information will transform us, but that’s not how the brain works.” - Dr. Curt Thompson

“The brain becomes less anxious when it is connected to other people.” - Dr. Curt Thompson

“It takes about less than three seconds for shame to encode… a remembered event of joy takes 60 to 90 seconds.” - Dr. Curt Thompson

Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:

The Soul of Shame by Dr. Curt Thompson

The Soul of Desire by Dr. Curt Thompson

Center for Being Known, Dr. Curt Thompson’s organization

New Story Behavioral Health, Dr. Curt Thompson’s clinical practice

*Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!

*All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.

Guest’s Links:

Curt Thompson’s Website

Curt Thompson’s Facebook

Curt Thompson’s Instagram

Connect with Andrew:

How to Remember by Andrew Osenga

Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga

*The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

The Art of Dying with Dr. Lydia Dugdale Mar 17, 2026

Show notes

In this episode of The Pivot, Andrew Osenga sits down with physician and author Lydia Dugdale to explore the surprising wisdom found in confronting mortality. Drawing from her book The Lost Art of Dying, Lydia shares what centuries-old traditions, modern medicine, and her experiences as a doctor in New York City have taught her about death, dignity, and living well. From pandemic hospital tents to ancient reflections on the “art of dying,” this conversation wrestles with life’s biggest questions and invites listeners to consider how an awareness of our finite days can lead to a richer, more meaningful life.

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“If you actually live your life aware of your finitude—aware that your days are numbered—then you live into the fullness of life in a different way.” - Lydia Dugdale

“The idea is there’s an art of dying. There’s a way that we think about living well to the end so that we die well, but that doesn’t just happen right at the end.” - Lydia Dugdale

“I thought that normal people talked about death because there’s nothing you can do about it. We’re all going to die, so you might as well anticipate it.” - Lydia Dugdale

"It's just a fact of life. We're all gonna die—get over it—[so how] are you gonna lean into the fullness of life with that reality?" - Lydia Dugdale

“I have taken care of enough patients who reach the end of their lives and they are scared out of their wits because they have never wrestled with these questions.” - Lydia Dugdale

Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:

The Lost Art of Dying by Lydia Dugdale

*Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!

*All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.

Guest’s Links:

Lydia Dugdale’s Website

Connect with Andrew:

How to Remember by Andrew Osenga

Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga

*The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

From Wall Street to the Jesuits: Father James Martin on Prayer & Pivoting with Peace Mar 03, 2026

Show notes

In this episode of The Pivot Podcast, Andrew sits down with James Martin—Jesuit priest, bestselling author, and editor-at-large at America Media—to talk about calling, career pivots, and learning to pray in the middle of uncertainty. Before joining the Jesuits, Father Jim worked in corporate finance after graduating from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, but a growing restlessness, and the writings of Thomas Merton, led him to a radically different path. Together they explore discernment, suffering, spiritual dryness, and how ancient prayer practices can steady us during seasons of change.

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“God not only wants you to make good decisions, good and healthy and life-giving and faithful decisions, but God will help you make those good decisions.” - Father James Martin

“We say in the Jesuits: trust your heart, but use your head too, or trust your head and use your heart too.” - Father James Martin

“I think many people believe that everyone else has an easier time praying than they do.” - Father James Martin

“Imagine saying you’re friends with someone, but you never spend any time with them. Sometimes that’s how we treat our relationship with God.” - Father James Martin

“Fame certainly doesn’t solve everything, right? It doesn’t solve your problems. And in fact, it can sometimes make them worse.” - Father James Martin

“I really don’t think God sends us suffering to test us or to punish us. But I do think suffering is just part of the human condition.” - Father James Martin

Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:

Work in Progress by Father James Martin
Learning to Pray by Father James Martin
In All Seasons, For All Reasons (Volume 1) by Father James Martin

In All Seasons, For All Reasons (Volume 2) by Father James Martin
Give Us This Day daily prayer and reflection resource

*Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!

*All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.

Guest’s Links:

Father James Martin’s Facebook

Father James Martin’s Instagram

Father James Martin’s X

Connect with Andrew:

How to Remember by Andrew Osenga

Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga

*The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

Kelsey McGinnis: When the Detour Becomes the Destination Feb 17, 2026

Show notes

In this episode of The Pivot, Andrew talks with Kelsey McGinnis—a musicologist, educator, and writer/editor for Christianity Today—about embracing life’s detours and letting go of the pressure to be perfect. Kelsey shares how she found her unexpected career by following her heart when her original plans fell apart, and how becoming a parent taught her to hold her goals loosely. She and Andrew dive into the messy reality of having multiple creative interests, exploring whether it’s better to focus on one thing or dabble in many, regardless of how others try to put you in a box. Finally, they discuss how to honestly critique parts of evangelical culture while keeping your faith and creativity intact, and the freedom that comes with choosing moderation over extremes.

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“There were a number of years of just kind of, Well, whatever happens happens. And then after undergrad, things kind of went off the rails. I developed a pretty severe eating disorder. And in the process of my life blowing up, I decided, I am gonna go to grad school. I had no grand plan with all of this, I just knew this was something I loved to do.” - Kelsey McGinnis

“I needed to be doing something that I loved that was helping take up more space in my brain than an eating disorder. Doing a PhD did it.” - Kelsey McGinnis

“I started getting more of a vision for what a career could look like, got married, had kids, and that messes things up in all kinds of ways and makes you hold all your plans really loosely.” - Kelsey McGinnis

“I was a little blindsided by how much I liked being a mom. I had not spent a lot of time thinking about what it would be like to be a parent. That experience as a graduate student sort of forced me to say, ‘I love what I’m doing, I would do this for the rest of my life, but I also love being a mom. So if there’s no way for me to do these things at the same time, that’s okay.’” - Kelsey McGinnis

“When I read Christian parenting books, the framework that is used for everything is that any form of child resistance to what a parent wants to do is sin and rebellion. And I just remember thinking, I don’t think my one year old is manipulating me.” - Kelsey McGinnis

“I keep learning that when I try to do something that’s not in the lane that other people think I’m in, that nobody knows what to do with that. There are a bunch of things I would have done differently in my career—I could have made the same art, made the projects differently—had I had a better understanding of how people view me.” - Andrew Osenga

“I kept hopping between things, and there came to be a point where having a bit of skill in all those things became its own skill. And I’m just now starting to step into cases where the fact that I can do six things puts me in a different category than the guy who can do one thing really well.” - Andrew Osenga

“Writing, for me, is a constant self-examination and self-questioning. I send things off to my editors with so many apologies.” - Kelsey McGinnis

“If you have no other life, no other set of knowledge, you actually are kind of crippled. We are not meant to be siloed creatures, even in areas where you need to be an expert. Like, I don’t want a surgeon who’s not done their 10,000 hours, but you also want a surgeon who’s had a life outside that. I think that’s really helpful.” - Andrew Osenga

“Christian women get all kinds of mixed messages about what our bodies are for, what our value is, what we’re supposed to be doing in our relationships and in our families. And so I’ve been looking at the different ways that faith language gets used to convince people that they need to do this or that with their body.” - Kelsey McGinnis

“We’re really bad at moderation, humans in general. Everyone wants to do a cold plunge or eat a thousand grams of protein. Nothing is moderate, nothing is measured. I will stand by that diet culture as a phenomenon is destructive. But I can’t turn around and tell people their bodies don’t matter.” - Kelsey McGinnis

“I want to spend a lot of time around quietly faithful people, actually be one of those quietly faithful people and take that version of lived faith more seriously than what I see online.” - Kelsey McGinnis

“One trend of the past fifteen years that I find troubling is the discomfort with imperfection or roughness in any way. We want everything to be so smooth, so seamless. That’s my number one advice right now for people who are looking to engage with art, a sacred thing is being present for the creativity of another person and entering in if you can.” - Kelsey McGinnis

Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:

Christianity Today

Belmont University

“Good News” feat. Andrew Osenga and Josh Wilson

Brandon Lake

The Myth of Good Christian Parenting by Marissa Franks Burt and Kelsey McGinnis

Campus Crusade for Christ (Cru)

AmeriCorps

Rick Warren

Dr. Oz

*Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!

*All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.

Guest’s Links:

Kelsey McGinnis’ website

Kelsey McGinnis’ Facebook

Kelsey McGinnis’ Instagram

Kelsey McGinnis’ X

Kelsey McGinnis’ YouTube

Kelsey McGinnis’ Substack

Connect with Andrew:

How to Remember by Andrew Osenga

Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga

*The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

Jason & Rhonda Halbert: Let Go and See What Happens Feb 10, 2026

Show notes

Miracles! Cancer! Kelly Clarkson! Floods! Family! Oh yeah, and a book, too! On this episode of The Pivot, we’re joined by married couple Jason (Kelly Clarkson’s music director and former member of Sonicflood) and Rhonda Halbert, who have been through way more than their fair share of trauma—including shifting careers, three separate cancer diagnoses, a destroyed home, and loss after loss—and how they have used their creative outlets to process their experiences. They share what happens when you learn to let go and why it’s okay to ask big questions as you wade through complicated feelings.

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“Jason and Rhonda have been through trauma after trauma after trauma and yet when you talk to them, they are just so full of life and joy.” - Andrew Osenga

“The touring industry is not made for families, so we found ourselves maybe four years into our marriage having completely grown apart. And Rhonda was going to leave, she was done.” - Jason Halbert

“It’s a consistent theme for us: go passionately into something and then it fails spectacularly. You can believe with all your heart either God has led you or you’re following something you feel is right, and then it falls apart and you’re like, Where did I mess up?” - Jason Halbert

“[I did not want to] make money off the church, and I can trace those steps all the way to Kelly Clarkson and now a 22-year career with her, which is unheard of. None of this would’ve happened if we had fought to hold onto Sonicflood, all that came from letting go of it.” - Jason Halbert

“You would think that having experienced your precious thing and letting go of it, you’d think; Wow, look what came out of that… you would think as humans, we would get good at doing that. But every single time that happens, it’s like the first time it’s ever happened.” - Jason Halbert

“Sometimes, hanging on to something too long chokes the life out of you, and that’s why you have to learn to let go.” - Rhonda Halbert

“Miracles happen in multiple ways, we just have to be willing to see them and we have to be willing to walk through the hard journey to get to the other side, whatever that looks like.” - Rhonda Halbert

“You have to hang on to whatever God is saying, doing, promising, giving. You’ve got to pursue Him in the hardest, longest, depleting of your life journey to get to the end, because it’s on the other side where you start to say, ‘God is moving and God is doing something miraculous.’” - Rhonda Halbert

“Human nature is just to come back around to doubt, it’s just how we’re wired. I hit rock bottom, there were a few days when I woke up and I was so angry at God that I was like, ‘Why’d you have to wake me up today?’” - Rhonda Halbert

“We’re still in the thick of our trauma. We’re not completely out. We didn’t come out of the story going, ‘See, you can do it too!’ We’re in the middle of it and we’re still struggling, but we’re working it out as we’re continuing to walk forward.” - Rhonda Halbert

“Our faith is stronger than ever, but the questions we’re asking about it are bigger than ever. Everything’s layered and threaded.” - Jason Halbert

Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:

Caretaker by Jason & Rhonda Halbert

Steven Curtis Chapman

Twila Paris

True Artist Management

Michael W. Smith

Backstreet Boys

Blessed Be Your Name by Matt Redman

Here I Am to Worship by Tim Hughes

Vanderbilt Children’s Hospital

Justin Guarini

American Idol

Stage Wives organization

Dave Ramsey

The Kelly Clarkson Show

*Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!

*All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.

Guest’s Links:

Jason & Rhonda’s website

Jason & Rhonda’s Facebook

Connect with Andrew:

How to Remember by Andrew Osenga

Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga

*The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

Fred Bahnson: Challenging Christian Stereotypes Feb 03, 2026

Show notes

Fred Bahnson is a writer, essayist, and ordained minister whose work explores the intersection of faith, nature, and community. In this profound and far-ranging conversation, Fred and Andrew discuss the adventurous spirit of Thomas Merton, wrestling with the notion of original sin, and finding an “embodied experience” of faith rooted in the natural world. Fred shares how his work—from his book Soil and Sacrament to his recent films and essays for Emergence Magazine—is an effort to present a vision of Christian faith that challenges common stereotypes, focusing instead on the larger story of what God is doing and how we live as people of faith.

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“[Thomas Merton] had this real adventuresome spirit that I really resonate with. And that’s very much how I conceive of my own faith journey, is it’s this unfolding adventure.” - Fred Bahnson

“So much of what you’re wrestling with are things that I’m wrestling with. Even deep, theological ideas of, What is your faith?” - Andrew Osenga

“The theology that I grew up with, at least as I received it, was all about original sin and sort of, ‘You are stained to the core. You are rotten to the core of your being.’ And it never really resonated, it just didn’t ring true to me. I knew I was sinful, but I kept thinking, If we’re created in the image of God, how can that be true that we’re also rotten to the core?” - Fred Bahnson

“I think [boarding school] was where I had an early imitation of God’s presence, that sense of, Okay, I’m on my own. I had to learn how to become self-sufficient and a lot of that was learning to pray, just kind of crying out in pain to God and feeling the love come back at me.” - Fred Bahnson

“I didn’t have this ‘calling’ to be a pastor, it was more just wanting to understand this faith that had shaped me and that I sort of couldn’t get away from.” - Fred Bahnson

“I learned about other faith communities who were starting farms and growing their own food and reconnecting with the land, but in a very faith-focused way. And I was really fascinated by that whole growing movement.” - Fred Bahnson

“This is where language doesn’t really get at our experience. I’ve sought all my life to get beyond the isms and get to the pure drop, the direct experience. That’s a lot of what I do as a writer, just place the reader there with me in the moment. To me, that is so much more powerful than ideas or argument or diatribe.” - Fred Bahnson

“We’re nature looking back at itself. The environment is constantly moving in and out of us. We are nature and there’s no dividing line.” - Fred Bahnson

“The faith I’m drawn to is very much an embodied experience. You’re doing things, you’re smelling things, you’re watching and hearing and all of your senses are engaged. I think that’s the faith we need if we’re going to have any chance of surviving.” - Fred Bahnson

“It’s a writerly urge to use your own story as a window through which the reader can look onto some larger vista behind. Ultimately, you want to be the clear pane of glass that the reader looks through. You’re not. You’re not the final destination of the reader’s gaze. If at the end of the day, the story is just about what happened to Fred Bahnson, then I failed. It’s about the larger story you’re trying to tell.” - Fred Bahnson

“I want to present a vision of the faith that maybe challenges some stereotypes of what a Christian is. For me, that larger story is almost always about what God is doing in our lives and how we live as people of faith.” - Fred Bahnson

Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:

Thomas Merton

“On the Road with Thomas Merton” by Fred Bahnson, film by Jeremy Siefert

Wilbur Awards

The Live You Save May Be Your Own by Paul Elie

The Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton

Boris Pasternak

James Baldwin

Monastery of Christ in the Desert

Redwoods Monastery

Annie Dillard

City Lights Bookstore (San Francisco)

Laurence Ferlinghetti

Emergence Magazine

Jeremy Siefert

Montana State University

Duke Divinity School

Wendell Berry

Sex, Economy, Freedom, and Community by Wendell Berry

Soil and Sacrament by Fred Bahnson

Anathoth Community Garden (North Carolina)

Orion Magazine

Michael Pollan

W.K. Kellogg Foundation

Wake Forest University School of Divinity

Hannah Coulter by Wendell Berry

Jayber Crow by Wendell Berry

Barry Lopez

The Wisdom of the Desert by Thomas Merton

The Art of Prayer: An Orthodox Anthology compiled by Igumen Chariton of Valamo

“Guardians of Memory” by Fred Bahnson (Harper’s Magazine)

The Forest Beyond film by Jeremy Siefert and Fred Bahnson

The Church Forests of Ethiopia film by Jeremy Siefert

Thoughts In Solitude by Thomas Merton

Seeds of Contemplation by Thomas Merton

*Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!

*All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.

Guest’s Links:

Fred Bahnson’s website

Connect with Andrew:

How to Remember by Andrew Osenga

Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga

*The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

Matt Markins: Mentorship for Gen G-Z Jan 27, 2026

Show notes

In this week’s episode, we sit down with Matt Markins, president and COO of Awana, a global organization dedicated to guiding children toward a meaningful life through mentorship and community partnership. Matt shares the poignant childhood experiences—including the day his father left—that set him on a path defined by the powerful influence of caring mentors. He discusses how those early connections shaped his deep-seated passion for helping kids discover lasting values and a strong inner compass. Matt offers practical ways for adults to foster deep, meaningful connections with the next generation, underscoring the critical role of intentional presence and open dialogue in a world where anxiety and isolation feel increasingly universal. He shares his vision for a global community built on shared positive principles, where compassionate guidance helps young people navigate the “counterfeit narratives” of modern life to find authentic peace and connection.

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“My earliest memory is the day that my dad walked out on our family. In the days, weeks, months after that, my mom finds her way to a local church. I’m probably four years old and I remember this moment with great crystal clarity something in my heart saying, ‘I want this. This is better.’ That was the moment I took my first step of faith and trusted Jesus as Savior.” - Matt Markins

“It is funny how God can direct your steps, sometimes in very crooked paths, but somehow He straightens it out.” - Matt Markins

“We have pivots, right, chapters that come to an end. I literally picked up a phone and called somebody I knew, David, and said ‘Hey, do you think Awana could ever use me?’ And David got up from that call and went to the president’s desk and booked a meeting, and the rest is history.” - Matt Markins

“Discipleship is relational. No matter how much we try to AI discipleship, human-on-human interaction and mentoring and coaching and consulting… if we don’t control the calendar, the calendar will control you.” - Matt Markins

“Start putting blocks of time way out in advance on [your] calendar. You have to buy the real estate of your time well in advance. Then when you begin to approach it, you can say, ‘Oh year, I want to use my time differently. What is it that I need to build into that space?’” - Matt Markins

“The cultural gap between us as global citizens is really narrowing. When it comes to anxiety or depression or isolation, we’re all kind of at a similar spot.” - Matt Markins

“Kids need adults around them that have God on their heart, that are open to being redeemed and shaped by God.” - Matt Markins

“If I can talk to my kids about ballet, about the latest pop artists, about what’s happening in their school, and that’s natural for me, then I have built the infrastructure. The conduit is in place for me to do discipleship. The number one thing we need in our homes is dialog.” - Matt Markins

“There’s all kinds of things in life that are holding us captive. We’re allowing our hearts to be open for something else to come in and that something else is counterfeit. There are counterfeit narratives coming at our children, at you and me, and we let them sink into our story, into our minds, into our hearts.” - Matt Markins

“Christianity is good, but the danger is to say that secular culture is bad and to say, ‘But there’s no problems in our culture.’ Christian culture has all kinds of problems because there’s sin inside of us.” - Matt Markins

“All the heroes of the faith were pretty jacked up people. It’s because of grace that we’re saved, because of grace that God can change us sometimes in a moment, sometimes in a lifetime.” - Matt Markins

“Peace is available to me because of Jesus. So I am really working on how to be cognizant of that, how to spiritually be sitting in God’s presence and be connected to that, but also how to make sure that my life is wired to where I can set aside time to cultivate that even more.” - Matt Markins

Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:

Emotionally Healthy Discipleship by Peter Scazzaro

Immanuel Nashville

The Story We Tell Our Children by Matt Markins

*Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!

*All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.

Guest’s Links:

Matt Markins’ website

Matt Markins’ Facebook

Matt Markins’ Instagram

Matt Markins’ X

Matt Markins’ YouTube

Connect with Andrew:

How to Remember by Andrew Osenga

Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga

*The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

Emerging from the Numb: Josh Wilson Embraces Life “Unmuted” Jan 20, 2026

Show notes

In this week’s episode, Andrew Osenga sits down with friend and musician Josh Wilson to discuss his journey of personal and professional change. Josh shares why his answer to “What have you changed your mind about and why?” is profoundly different now than it would have been four years ago. He opens up about his past struggles with alcohol addiction and anxiety, and how his decision to speak publicly about these experiences became a significant pivot in his life and career. Discover how embracing vulnerability and seeking help transformed his songwriting and approach to his artistry, leading to his latest album, “Mental Help.”

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“When I started drinking, I drank in moderation. It wasn’t a problem for a number of years. But when it became a problem, I was drinking to turn down those questions, to turn down the volume on the anxiety and sort of the existential hum that was always there. I didn’t realize this until I quit, because when I quit they came back.” - Josh Wilson

“I realized it’s just more fun to be honest and tell the truth in my songwriting and in my own personal life with friends and family. It’s not that I air all my dirty laundry. I’m the Venn diagram of who people think I am and who I actually am. I’m trying to close that as much as possible in an appropriate way.” - Josh Wilson

“I hope when someone hears me talk about these things honestly—anxiety, depression, and addiction—I hope it’s disarming in the sense that if someone hears it, whether in conversation or in a song, they think, Okay, yeah, it's normal to deal with these kinds of things.” - Josh Wilson

“I’ve released so many songs that I’ve already said so many things about subject A, B, and C. It’s like, Well, I could write another song, or I could try and dig even deeper and find something that makes me a little bit uncomfortable to talk about and hopefully makes people lean in, like, God’s not mad at you. I want to hear that.” - Josh Wilson

“I had a mental breakdown in 2022, and thankfully I’m so much better. Now I’m to the point where I have the mental capacity. I’m sort of rebuilding it all and picking up where I left off back in 2019, and taking multiple instruments out. I want to connect on a human level with people.” - Josh Wilson

Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:

Radnor Lake State Park

The Painted Desert album by Andrew Osenga

Mental Help album by Josh Wilson

“Jesus and Therapy” song by Josh Wilson

“God’s Not Mad at You” song by Josh Wilson

Jubilee YouTube channel

The Russell Moore Show

Phil Keaggy

Ed Sheeran

Jason Gray

*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!