The NonProphet Podcast

#236 — Ian Seabrook on Underwater Cinematography (reboot) Oct 20, 2024

This podcast originally aired in October 2022 but recent texts with Ian about music and dogs and life reminded me of how good this is and that it merits re-release. Since the original broadcast Ian, who is an underwater cinematographer, has worked on "Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny", "Shogun", "Wednesday" (a Tim Burton offering) and "Last Breath", which premiers in February 2025. Ian and I have spent a good amount of time working on a documentary together and perhaps in the next chapter, the one titled "Whatever Comes Next", we might see if a logical conclusion exists and can push it to the finish line.

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Ian Seabrook returns to the podcast after a three-year hiatus. Ian is an award winning Underwater Director of Photography in the motion picture and television industry who first appeared on Episode 55. At that time he was in Utah to document the production and release of REFUGE, the first large book produced by NonProphet. This year Ian's return coincided with the printing of POISON so we strong-armed him into making a short film about that.

Ian's underwater credits include “Batman v Superman”, “Deadpool 2” and “Jungle Cruise”, five episodes of the TV series, "See", and he was also the second unit cinematographer for Zack Snyder's "Army Of The Dead". More recently his work on "The Rescue" earned several cinematography awards, which we discuss intensively in this current episode.

We start this talk with an in-depth review of the underwater shots in "Man of Steel", and simple behind-the-scenes things like how to keep personnel safe in the tank while the SFX crew sets the water on fire. Ian also discusses about the necessity of appropriate clothing, nutrition and fitness for long shooting days in water that is constantly extracting heat from one's body.

The conversation shifts towards the current state of filmmaking and how it feels like cinema is a disposable medium these days (very different than in the 70s) and the sheer volume of output is shocking ... quantity vs quality diluted by frequency. We do a drive-by on the unreality of Reality TV and the difference between true documentary film and docu-drama or docu-fiction projects that are "dramatized" to "improve" the story. In an unusual twist, Michael brings up some of the positive aspects of new and social media but don't blink or you'll miss them.

In review, Ian's descriptions of shooting underwater sequences for "The Rescue" are riveting, and easily worth the price of a listen.

Ian's website:

https://www.dorsalfin.net/

#235 — Bill McConnell Sep 16, 2024

Mark sits with Bill McConnell to discuss, well, everything, starting with a quick exchange about the benefits of voluntary discomfort, moving into pre-Clovis arrowheads and onto evolving out of a wrestling mentality with regards to fitness into an appreciation of training for specific goals. In this case, for Bill, fitness supports his journey as a primitive survivalist, a condition that cannot be accurately pursued in a Globo-Gym. And that's the last time we talk about fitness because Bill's knowledge, experience and skills in the context of primitive survival trump just about any other topic we might discuss.

By way of an introduction Bill humorously describes his drive to be "more than an Amway salesman for the bow drill." He talks about harvesting a bear with a stone point arrow and a "stick from the woods", homemade bow, homemade shaft, flint-napped arrowhead, and also about blowing 15-20 stalks in order to get close enough—15 yards—to an extremely sensitive antelope to shoot it with a primitive bow. Bill describes his path of experimental archeology (replicating old tools and using them in the real world) where he is in the real world, seeing artifacts and organic material, and being familiar enough with ancient cultures to imagine how the discovered and recovered artifact might have been used as a tool thousands of years ago. This is very different from scientific conclusions reached by researchers who have never been anything other than in 68 degrees and well-fed ...

His explanation of building, customizing and using the AtlAtl is remarkable. The difference between foreshaft and main shaft is clear to me as it never was before, and how a hunter can weaponize the tool—the foreshaft—according to the game being hunted, from fish to antelope to elk and larger game, made me understand why humans are still here and many species that primitive humans hunted are not.

"This is functioning art, the synthesis of art and science."

At 1hr 26min they talked about the VO2 Max of various animals and the primacy of the antelope so after the conversation Mark dug up his old chart:

Reinhold Messner (arguably the best high altitude climber ever) 48.8

Mark Twight 56.6

Alex Lowe (much better, faster, stronger climber than Twight) 69

Miguel Indurain (five-time TDF winner) 71

Jim Ryun (1 miler world record in 1967) 81

Steve Prefontaine (1 mile in 3:54) 84.4

Bjorn Dahle (Olympic Gold Medals in several XC Ski distances) 93

Certain Dogs have VO2 Max of 90-100

FunnyCide and other thoroughbreds are somewhere between 150-200

Pronghorn Antelope (the highest ever recorded) 300

We eventually land on the discussion of nutritional density and why people eating processed foods to fullness find themselves hungry a couple of hours later as the body inventories its intake and learns that the large meal lacked certain necessary nutrients. It's very different "when I harvest my own meat ... I don't have to eat as much of it because there is more nutrition within that food ..."

Finally, it is very important to think about environment and how our presence affects it, "When we leave things for the next generation so that they find it as you did they at least have the ability to make new mistakes or try new things out ... we haven't diminished the resources ... but that's not how we have move through our environment, we have altered it, exploited it, removed some potential for understanding and growth ... and that needs to change."

# 234 — Brian Enos Re-released Jul 24, 2024

This is a reboot of Episode 20, recorded in 2018 with my dear friend, Brian Enos. He published a new book on July 17th, 2024 so I figured it would be a nice means of sharing some of the history of the NonProphet podcast (formerly known as The Dissect Podcast) and helping listeners understand why they might very well be interested in the new book titled, "Practical Living". You may learn a bit more about the book by surfing to the Journal section of the NonProphet site.

In the first mobile recording of the Dissect podcast, Mark sits down with friend and mentor, Brian Enos, to talk about shooting, Zen, temperament, road tripping, psychedelics and thinking about how to think. Brian is the author of “Practical Shooting — Beyond Fundamentals”. It is considered one of the best books on the subject, and certainly the deepest. During his career, he won multiple Area and National titles and despite this success—or maybe because of it—one day he quit cold turkey, which also comes up during the conversation.

# 233 — Carl Kuschke Jul 08, 2024

Mark and Carl Kuschke discuss the preparation for an endurance event which was quite outside Carl's normal training focus and activity. He was recruited into a college tennis program but quickly realized going pro wasn't in his future so after graduating he entered the workforce and his training occurred mostly in the gym where he finally put on some muscle because the tennis training volume decreased. We discuss the concept of functional fitness, what functionality means, how to navigate the wilderness of fitness once the university coaching and programming are done, time limitations due to demands of family and work (10 hours per week, max), as well as the utility of online, remote programs. Often, the solution to a sense of stagnation in the gym is to break the routine, to choose an unusual objective and train differently for it. Mark concedes that obstacle course racing may actually be pretty fun, and Carl extolls the reassurance offered by a solid training plan, one that had him well enough prepared to actually enjoy himself on the day of the event. There are some details about the training itself, from VO2 intervals to grip work and the notorious Bulgarian Split Squat Test, and discussion of choosing an appropriate objective according to one's physical history, available time and innate curiosity. This isn't about a high end performance done by a famous athlete, rather it's a conversation that maybe lights the way for anyone to improve their fitness and enjoy the experience.

#232 — Pete Tapley — Live to Tell Jun 12, 2024

When I signed a copy of Extreme Alpinism for Pete in 1999 I wrote, "The moment of terror is the beginning of life. Be scared." I signed the book to a reputation—to hearsay—instead of signing it to the actual man. Years later, having become friends, he reminded me of the inscription. The phrase was my response to hearing a story of him bolting routes in Hyalite Canyon, sacrilege to me at the time; reducing risk to pursue purely technical difficulty and permanently altering the resource by chasing that grail. We had a good laugh 25 years after the fact ... we are both still alive to do so.

In the moment of our early encounters I couldn't see the similarities between us. I focused on the hot-button issue in my own philosophical pursuits so I missed what could have been an influential and powerful relationship.

What I couldn't see then was that Pete strove to connect with nature through adventure, exposing himself to great risk in exchange for the promise of great reward. That individual reward, when communicated and shared, becomes inspiration, becomes progression ... reinforcing the interconnectedness of the community, the climbers seeing and seeking and pushing limits out on the edge.

Now that we are on the backside of the arc, the offramp so to speak, and still alive to be wondering, "What now? What next?" we sat down for a conversation.

We spoke about the influence of music on climbing as an activity and attitude in that era, when there was a soundtrack to everything. The punk rock cry was "no future" and that might seem claustrophobic or oppressive but our interpretation of it was that, "If I have no future then I am utterly free to act in the present, to do what I want to do right now because I'm going to die anyway." But there was no map, no guideposts; we had to manufacture our own rites of passage into adulthood because the rites that were culturally common before no longer existed. Without a map, with only casual insight from brief exposure to mentors, we followed what we could, imitated what seemed appropriate, and struck out into a wild world where those who tried the hardest seems to live the shortest lives but we went there anyway. And somewhere out there we learned that fear is not a barrier, it's just good information.

# 231 — Kelly Goes to Barkley May 15, 2024

Kelly Halpin is an artist, adventurer, and child of nature. Her love of the outdoors and running in the mountains is infectious. She recently sat down with Michael and Trevor Thompson to discuss her ultra exploits at the Running Up For Air event in SLC, UT — in which she won and set the female record. She also discusses her most recent challenge at The Barkley Marathons. She has incredible insight into what endurance can do for you when it is more than pinning a number or collecting FKTs. Her list of accomplishments in endurance sports is only overshadowed by her love of nature and her ability to translate that through her artwork.

You can find more about her at www.kellyhalpin.com or her Instagram: @kyehalpin

# 230 — Raymond Ansotegui — Dances With Bulls Apr 24, 2024

Mark sits down with Raymond Ansotegui to learn about sheep, cows, Basque culture and bullfighting (and there's not a red cape in sight). We discuss the philosophical side of moving energy and keeping the flow, the somatotypes and psychological make-up required by the job. These are farm boys, ranch kids, good athletes who understand the movement of the animal and also have a particular temperament; maybe not the guy being cheered but the guy being thanked for the protecting the guy being cheered. Raymond's experience as a bullfighter gives him a unique opportunity to dispel misconceptions about rodeo, and bull riding, in particular. There isn’t any actual “fighting” in western rodeo bullfighting, rather it is a dance of grit and grace involving extreme focus, humility and respect for the animals and the athletes.

Raymond describes some lessons from the arena — commit, slow down, get closer than you want to, and well, "it turns out that those same lessons applied to me helping my father live with Alzheimer's for the seven years before it took him."

Later, when we were speaking about storytelling (it's how we met), and he said, "If we can find sameness then we can explore difference because we can always find our way back," which is a beautiful and universal lesson. We also dive into the concept of facilitation and conflict resolution, mediation and collaboration, and eventually the notion of a bullfighter not actually fighting the bull but rather steering and guiding its attention, another concept that has near-universal application.

Raymond was born and raised in Livingston, Montana, earned his undergraduate degree from Montana State University where his father was a professor of animal science for thirty years. After attending higher education at Arizona State University (Masters degree in land reclamation, and plant and soil science) and working at the Nevada Test Site, he returned to Montana.

"We learn to believe in ourselves, commit to our goals and when we get knocked down, to get back up again and again."

Fitness is F*cked Ep. 7 Mar 25, 2024

Michael and Kegan sit down to talk about physiology and the gulf that language builds between knowing and understanding. They go deep into new thoughts on strength training and how much of what we have done might of worked but is also wrong, “all models are wrong, some are useful.” They bring up relevant topics such as the disconnect between performing exercises versus establishing a training stimulus. They ask questions about the common cultural assumption that “bad” technique causes injury. They meet at an understanding that the body’s posture is an early pull to the grave because of how it affects a fundamental process like subconscious breathing can lead to an inability to control your state.

# 229 — Daniel Strauss (The Raspberry Ape) Mar 06, 2024

What can I say about Daniel Strauss other than I admire him. And it isn’t his accolades and successes in jiujitsu (though there are many) or is it his impressive physical strength, that should be studied. Nor is it his ability to think differently in such a homogenized world. It’s because of his curiosity and his zeal for living. He embodies a practice and insight that is rare these days. In October, I flew to Mallorca Spain to participate in a week-long BJJ festival. The level and sheer amount of practitioners and mastery were world-class, and out of them all, Daniel’s humble approach to teaching captured my attention and opened up the world of BJJ to what I think it can be. He is a master of his craft and yet, I know he is not done progressing. We covered the roots of grappling, and its function as the foundation for Western Civilization. We went into depth on environments (sites of power), the marketing of BJJ as a “little guy” sport that disconnected it from strength training, and what difficult tasks mean as value. I’m grateful for his time and I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did.

Books Referenced:

How We Move by Dr. Rob Gray

Teaching: A Subversive Activity by Neil Postman

Dinosaur Training by Brooks Kubik

#228 — Jack Tackle Feb 14, 2024

Jack is a legend in the climbing world, a man I looked up to when I started climbing and still do today. His obsession with the Alaska Range produced first ascents of the Isis Face on Denali, the Diamond Arête on Mount Hunter, the Viper Ridge on Mount Foraker, and Mount Barille’s Cobra Pillar, he made the first ascent of the Elevator Shaft on Mount Johnson, the north face of Thunder Mountain, and several new routes on the Mount Huntington massif. Shifting attention to the Yukon, he made the first ascent of "Arctic Discipline" on the north face of Mount Kennedy with Jack Roberts. He has traveled all over the world to climb, making expeditions to Mount Siguniang (China), Everest, the Biafo Spires, Uzam Braak and the Ogre in Pakistan, as well as the Cordilleras Blanca and Huayhuash in Peru, and finally Kashmir, in India.

He received the American Alpine Club’s coveted Underhill Award for climbing achievement (1999), the Italian Alpine Club award, “Genziana Giovanne” (1999), and the Sowles Award from the American Alpine Club. "conferred from time to time on mountaineers who have distinguished themselves, with unselfish devotion at personal risk or sacrifice of a major objective, in going to the assistance of fellow climbers imperiled in the mountains," in 2003.

We recorded this conversation in October of 2022 but because we had spoken for over three and a half hours I was reluctant to undertake the editing. I started editing just before his 70th birthday but that came and went before I could finish it.

The conversation started tentatively as we tried to find the entry point, discussing how and where we met (in 1986), the original carbon-fiber ice tool I'd been given by Grivel the year before that I then gave to Jack, which he returned to me in 2001, and that leads him the story of nearly being killed on the north face of Mount Augusta in 2002. The rescue that ensued is quite incredible—involving the US Air Force operating over the border in Canada—the details of which Jack shares in a very sobering and thoughtful way.

Augusta is in the St Elias range, which is twice as large as Switzerland, and the tallest peak, Mount Logan, is the largest massif (described as base circumference) that is above water in the world. On average 110 skiers and climbers visit the area annually (contrasted with 1200 on Denali) and 90% of those attempt Logan, so on any other peak in the range one is quite likely to be alone in one of the vastest wilderness regions on the planet.

Further along we discuss the importance of preserving climbing history and the American Alpine Club's work to record interviews and document events with the Legacy Series of short films. This leads to some talk about the resource itself—rock crags and cliffs as well as the higher peaks—and how our use permanently affects not simply the surfaces (heavily polished Italian limestone in Finale Ligura is one example) but also the surrounding environment. When Jack went to Everest in 1983 there had only been four prior American expeditions to that mountain and there were four US teams on Everest that very year, and the mountain had not yet been guided. Contrast that to 2021 when 145 people summited K2 in a single day and there likely had not been more than 100 climbers who had stood on top prior to that day; guiding, fixed ropes and camps, supplemental oxygen, and significant Sherpa support for the clients have all had a dramatic impact on the craft of climbing and upon the mountains themselves.

This tangent led us to a distinction between someone who wants to do the climbing and someone who wants to be regarded as a climber, and Jack is most certainly one of the former.

The Mount Augusta story.

Fitness is F*cked Ep. 6 Jan 22, 2024

The idea must be poisoned before the activity itself can become toxic. It is precisely the misunderstanding of what the term "fitness" means that leads many away from the true, original concept and towards the quick fix, the momentary, and ultimately, the detrimental. Michael and Kegan kick off by discussing the common practice of sacrificing health for wealth, and later trying to use the wealth to unfuck what was done to earn it. The youthful notion of invincibility makes all manner of physical damage acceptable if the result is wealth or notoriety but/and "athletic longevity" doesn't make sense to someone who can't yet define actual longevity for themselves. Once physical condition or performance begins to decline (through overuse, injury or simple aging) repeating what was done a decade or more prior can be very seductive but the training that got one to a peak won't reproduce that peak after one is moving down the back-slope of that peak; none of us are 20 years old any more. At some point it is important to know and understand when to quit ... without becoming a quitter.

Michael admits, "when I was younger I had to prove I wasn't lazy but as I get older I want to prove I'm not stupid. I know I don't avoid hard things, I've proven it to myself, which means it's time to learn how to take care of myself." He and Kegan observe that childhood/adolescent programming affects behavior decades later, and that maintaining a relationship with physical activity can stall or counter age-related cognitive decline; vigor in the body directly supports vitality in the mind. Understanding the true and real "how" of fitness has become more important in this era where everything has a hack or shortcut, and physical appearance often belies serious, underlying health issues.

#227 — Joe Notebaert Jan 12, 2024

Joe Notebaert is originally from Phoenix Arizona, USA. He received his black belt from Cesar Lima and signed by Roger Gracie in 2017 after 9 1/2 years of training at the Roger Gracie Academy in London, UK. Joe is a 2X World Champion winning gold at purple and brown belt in the masters featherweight category in 2013 and 2017. He also won gold in the European Championships in Gi in 2013, and No-GI in 2012 at purple belt featherweight. Michael sat down with Joe during the Mallorca BJJ and Yoga camp in Mallorca, Spain. This event is a passion project that has been in the works since Joe first discovered jiu-jitsu living in London. They talk about the difficulties in making your dreams a reality, especially when this event was threatened in its second year during the pandemic.

https://www.mallorcabjj.com/

Fitness is F*cked Ep. 5 Dec 24, 2023

Kegan and Lucas join Michael to discuss what is wrong with fitness culture and how to think about changing it. This conversation starts on the topic of training consistency and how folks maintain it, which requires them to define consistent training. This quickly presents the conundrum that negative feedback slows or stops consistency, that positive feedback is needed to maintain consistency, and one must train consistently in order to 'cause' positive feedback. And to train consistently one must be semi- or totally-obsessed; to excel requires obsession, you have to be thinking about it when you're not doing it.

Training, actual training, starts with a purpose, what are you training for? Why are you doing it? If the Why isn't defined, and precisely, then the work is difficult to sustain ... if you have nothing to progress toward and no way to measure or appreciate it, well, doing it isn't as easy or defensible as might otherwise be true.

The guys realize that one's timeline affects point of view but also the effectiveness of the effort. High intensity training leads to a short-term outlook; a 11-minute workout, regardless of how hard it is, does not compel or inspire you to think 72 hours ahead much less ten years ahead. How will what you are doing today influence your physical and psychological condition in ten years? Do you even care? Few actually think ahead, but we all should, because we might actually live that long. And "ahead" changes over time, with understanding. At a younger age, when an entire world was laid out ahead but our appetites were demanding, if acquiring a skill or developing a fitness characteristic took longer than twelve weeks it was too long. Later, with more experience and maturity we recognized it is totally acceptable to sit with the idea that learning to jump might take one year, and that's OK. The real outcomes take time.

Sadly, a short frame of reference and quick execution doesn't develop the habits that sustain the condition that was achieved in a short amount of time. To be sure, surface changes, appearance changes may happen quickly but deep, meaningful, lasting change takes time, it takes getting used to ... and living with it.

They discuss using competition wisely and wonder if the biggest mistakes made in business are the same ones made in fitness, which could be a launchpad for a marketing gimmick but Michael steers them back to the idea that the intent of a workout prescription affects and changes the execution AND the result of the training session.

A laundry list of exercises has no value ... but we can overwrite a lot of wrongness with a proper intention (or thesis). And more important than intent is the story surrounding it, no one remembers or cares about the science of a workout or training style, but they do recall and carry with them the story of it, the narrative built around the session or overall program ... the best storyteller might actually be the best coach or trainer. So while people chase the numbers of a set/rep/duration structure believing these to be the magical keys, others understand, and have proven that if you go long enough or hard enough stuff comes up ... and if you are sensitized and aware, that stuff might cause meaningful change.

#226 — Roger Gracie Dec 12, 2023

Roger Gracie is a 10x IBJJF world champion. More notably, he is widely regarded as the GOAT of competitive jiujitsu in the gi. His dominant style is subtle and simple but the way he has claimed so many victories is based on technical precision and an understanding of the details to a degree that baffles anyone who has pursued the sport. Michael was reintroduced to BJJ by Roger while working on a motion picture in London in the summer of 2016. They met up in Mallorca, Spain for a 5-day BJJ festival where Michael was able to have a conversation with Roger about the bigger picture of a professional jiujitsu athlete’s career, and what motivates and fuels a path in combat sport. They discuss what it takes to be a great athlete, the imbalances of sport-specific training, and what it means to add to the legacy of the Gracie name.

#225 — Nate Pack 2.0 Nov 28, 2023

Back in 2018 Nate Pack, who at the time was the "Undisputed King of The Airdyne" joined us for a conversation (Ep. 53) and this is the Intro we wrote for that episode:

"The guys speak with Nate Pack about capacity and tolerance, about the engine and its gas tank, and get down in the weeds about numbers, which is no surprise as Nate holds a PhD in bio-engineering and is a self-described “smart guy”. He also has a high degree of mastery in extensive effort. During the conversation they divulge the secret workout everyone has been asking for, and the dietary pairings used to amplify its effect. Finally—since this is an exercise and fitness podcast—they analyze the numbers in order to coronate the undisputed king of the Airdyne, and discuss how to plot the linear progression curves of power and time to expose truth."

Those numbers, achieved on the AD4 fan bike, which was the standard at the time, are:

10 minutes = 412 calories

20 minutes = 705 calories

30 minutes = 1002 calories

60 minutes = 1935 calories

Nate returns to the podcast to discuss the many years of growth and change that has occurred since. We started by discussing how easily we can trick ourselves into believing that more and harder effort can overcome other poor choices, generally those of the dietary kind but when that doesn't work it's time for wholesale change. After having realized that he had gained more weight than he could tolerate or overcome with power, and along the way lost much of his aerobic fitness, Nate made a change.

"Sometimes the mirror reflects the image we want to see and not the truth."

He started training base (intensity) only for 15-18 hours a week, some on bike but also a lot of walking. He dropped 40 pounds in 15 weeks, 3-4 pounds per week on average, and then consciously slowed it down, taking advantage of the positive feedback but also realizing he needed to turn conscious behavior into a habit, which is more or less automatic. He took another ten pounds off over eight weeks, and slowed the weight loss down even more, while not losing focus. By the time the Logan-to-Jackson (LOTOJA) bike race was held in early-September of 2023 he had lost sixty+ pounds and rebuilt his long endurance and long threshold fitness back.

This was the first time on our podcast when the following phrase was spoken, "without going into the biochemistry of PGC-1 Alpha ...", which relates to mitochondrial biogenisis and "promotes the remodeling of muscle tissue to a fiber-type composition that is metabolically more oxidative and less glycolytic in nature, and it participates in the regulation of both carbohydrate and lipid metabolism."

It's a fitness podcast and sometimes complex details are discussed so a detailed description of training intensity ensues, referencing mitochondrial biogenesis, work/rest ratios for intervals, effort that produces 2.5 mmol/l lactate but would produce 5 if sustained but it isn't, etc. Yes, down in the weeds a bit but we didn't stay there, shifting instead to the concept of sustainability and the necessity of a big volume of consistency; measuring progress in years, not merely weeks or months.

Once the topic of physical training is exhausted we moved on to the psychological, to freeing himself of 'expectations of outcome' while never questioning the expectation of the effort he is willing to make ... and 'will I give all that I am willing to give? Not able but willing ...' What are we willing to give to achieve our objectives, and what do we hold in reserve to apply to other activities or relationships?

We hit the offramp with an exchange about learning to be kind to oneself in the midst of the unfairness of the universe, "This is the lesson I was searching for: not more watts but more growth."

It's a long and powerful conversation, and sometimes quite in a niche—not every moment will be for every listener—but the high points are universally applicable, and understandable to anyone who is paying attention to the long journey called life we are all taking.

Fitness is F*cked Ep. 4 Nov 10, 2023

Michael and Kegan sit down with Nate Pack to discuss this year's annual Space Race, which occurs on New Years Eve. Previous editions include a 24-hour Assault Bike challenge in teams of three (580 miles was the final 'winning' score), 12-hour Dante's Triathlon (ski, row, bike 50-40-30-20-10 calories repeated in teams fo 3 or 4 depending on total weight of the team), and a 6-hour 40/400 AMRAP (40 calories plus 400m run) done solo. Continuing to cut total time by 50% would obviously lead to a 3-hour event and no one saw the point in that — the goal must be challenging and difficult enough to cause change or adaptation if that is what one seeks. And the power of having a date or deadline for performance, and people to do it with should not be underestimated.

Once the structure of this year's event was determined they delve into the psychological (and physical) limitations of truly hard effort, the challenges of different time domains, and how most people never actually work hard but believe they do. Nate also discusses his impressions of the Capacity manual and the eight-week progression proposed therein ... and how ‘simple’ is much harder to abide than we imagine. Within this context they cover the various interval structures and training styles that helped develop them into the athletes they are today.

Finally, Michael declares, "You have to rewrite what your brain thinks is hard in order to do something harder ..." and drops the mic.

#224 — Nahko Nov 03, 2023

Nahko is a singer/songwriter — a musician — who truly journeys between genres and manages to reinvent his style with each successive expression. He sits down with Michael and returning guest, Adam St. Simons in the middle of their North American tour to discuss the creative process, his humble beginnings of farm work, and how great trials are often opportunities to make great music. Nahko can be found here and his tour dates here.

Fitness is F*cked Ep. 3 — Zone “Whatever” Training Oct 18, 2023

Michael and Kegan discuss the general frustration with people who believe they are training Zone 2 but aren't. Aerobic foundation-building sessions that are programmed by the ignorant perpetuate the lack of results and such failure is masked by cheerleading. They bemoan the “influencer” propagation that simply being on a bike or exercise equipment is Z2, and also clarify that training endurance is not an afterthought or something that you get from by merely redescribing your shitty efforts as something more “official.”

They discuss using proper (accurate) language to describe aerobic training sessions in the gym and the expectations associated with it; you're not trying to get it over with you are trying to extend it.

The lessons from those who have accomplished much and continue to progress in their endurance usually come to this conclusion: It's not about the time but about what happens within the time, the quality of the work is important (in this case quality is about attention, not speed). If you want to get better then you need to make the time to get better.

They conclude by remarking how gym culture is in contradistinction to building endurance (punish vs reward) and how sometimes the benefit from both is simply seeing the contrast in how each develops.

Fitness is F*cked Ep. 2 — Unaffiliated Oct 03, 2023

Michael and Kegan reflect on the origin of the “Fitness is F*cked” theme, confirming that it was, and still is a criticism of an industry, how it has evolved from a position reserved for ranting, and how they can shift it to improve the industry without becoming a shill or charlatan. They also discuss the common practice of gyms adopting new and popular affiliations as opposed to making their own system based on effective practice. It matches the common fitness enthusiast’s habit of changing from one form of branded exercise to another as opposed to learning how they respond to different stimuli.

#223 — Proper Nomenclature is No Solution Sep 26, 2023

Mark and Michael sit down for a an old school rant that begins with Michael asking the very serious question, "Did government, Illuminati, secret society light up Burning Man with ebola so that they could off all of the people who might be able to make psychedelics legal?"

Clearly, this is a very serious conversation, wherein we discuss camping, capitalism, bartering and freedom (as it relates to the presence and function of the tent city that pops up in front of the NonProphet Event Center with some regularity), accepting or abdicating responsibility, and the influence of drugs on self-appreciation and value. Michael describes the remarkable difference between 'associative' vs. disassociative behavior and that perhaps, in order to steer oneself towards better life experiences, towards a 'higher plane' so to speak, one must actively associate with reality instead of evading it, and open oneself to feeling and sensing and being aware, and that may begin with a basic premise of making different decisions regarding the food one consumes. Change on the most fundamental, dare I ay mundane, level can influence an entire cascade of different outcomes.

In the moment of fulfillment, after a good and healthy meal that doesn't make you feel like shit, shared with a loved one, people feel satisfied, but society — as it is set up here — can't handle folks who are satisfied because they aren't seeking and they're not consuming and they're not indulging ... they are appreciating where they are, in the moment. That's a good thing for the species but not necessarily for the frenzied socio-economic system we find ourselves within ... because whosoever is satisfied won't fall for the advertising.

And then we turned the focus to business and marketing and Michael helped me realize that continual growth of cells in the body is cancer but continual growth in business is expected and if it doesn't happen the business is considered a failure. Or at minimum unsuccessful.

So how do businesses keep growing, keep increasing market share and brand awareness? Which leads to us addressing social engineering as a mechanism to turn profit on the back of predictable human behavior ... ugh, the manipulation is at an all time high while the resources, the open-to-buy of the potential customers, is rapidly declining. That said, money changes everything, and those who have it don't have to spend time or energy getting what they believe they want; they can change the outcome without actually changing their behavior. And that is very seductive ... but also a dead end.

Finally, when it comes to marketing for NonProphet, we agree that we should be careful about putting the business name and logo on such cheap shit as might quickly end up in a landfill ... is that how we want to be remembered in the present and in the future? Yeah, picking through useless NonProphet tchotchkes at the dump ... that sounds good. So go ahead, acquire stuff, let it weigh you down, because carrying weight is good training, and this podcast is about fitness.

Fitness is F*cked Ep. 1 — The Book Doesn’t Change But The Reader Does Aug 26, 2023

We wanted a way to address shorter topics, and sub=categories dealing with fitness specifically. So welcome into the rotation, The Fitness Is Fucked Podcast by NonProphet.

In this first episode Michael and Kegan discuss some of the inherent traps of becoming a strength coach, how we let clients—who do not know—dictate training, especially with strength training, and how it is often a road to nowhere. After rereading some of the original Russian literature on strength and power in light of revising our Strength Manual, Michael noticed how what he saw and read in 2023 seemed drastically different from what he originally he saw and read over 13 years ago. The books do not change (obviously) but we do, and it highlights a very interesting aspect about learning. It is hard to learn when you think you already know what you are looking for.

#222 — Physicality and Creativity, Hoby Darling Aug 15, 2023

This was originally recorded in 2019 and appeared as Episode 67, when this was sill The Dissect Podcast. Currently we are deep in print, digital, and construction projects that prevent us recording with the frequency we once insisted upon. However, as we went through the archives we discovered some real gems of conversations that merit revisiting.

Hoby Darling made us feel like under-achievers once we learned his background. His law degree is from Northwestern, his graduate degrees in business from UC Berkeley and Columbia, and he worked for Volcom and Nike before becoming CEO of Skullcandy, then executive director of Jaybird/Logitech. He has raced Ironman events, competed in CrossFit, and coached a number of top performing athletes. This impressive resumé pales beside his mission, as a founding member of the Liminal Collective, "to advance the limitless potential of humans, preparing and supporting those who take pioneering steps in extreme, unexplored, and unknown spaces." During the podcast we spoke about the Logitech Cognitive Performer Summit, where in 2019, Mark joined a panel to discuss the influence of the natural environment on creative output.

The initial impetus of that first summit came from asking, "What does the science of performance look like? And how do you fill a room with people who think alternatively about these theories to discuss and advance ideas derived from but not yet proven by science?" Many scientific positions are old; the experiments were done years ago, and it takes time to peer-review, publish, and then apply the conclusions in the real world to demonstrate actual utility. Besides, "the science" often shuts down (public or common) inquiry by declaring definitive conclusions … which places a box around an idea thus defines the boundaries of future exploration.

Traditionally, when it comes to scientific or casual inquiry, attention has focused on physical performance (in sport) because it is visible, but at the highest levels the bodies and capabilities are similar so why are some athletes or performers great? This drives some to examine the influence of cognitive ability on physical performance and oddly enough, as test and analytical capabilities have improved, we've seen that the top performers in E-Sports are making the fastest decisions on the planet under highest cognitive load. This psychological performance used to be invisible — it’s only in the last years that we could begin to observe it, and analyze it. If we agree that, "desire is the highest octane fuel that there is," the next question must be, "How do we quantify or measure or reproduce the desire that affects high performance in any arena?"

This path of inquiry requires new eyes, new ideas, a conceptual openness disassociated from from the steps and positions previously taken or used. Michael and Hoby used a simple analogy in the conversation regarding the shift away from plastic bottles to contain and transport water towards aluminum cans, which are far more reusable and recyclable ... that's all well and good but also self-limiting. What’s the moonshot here? Instead of going from 1 to 1.1 we should be going from the plastic bottle to not needing a container or vessel at all … let’s return to 0 and discover a new and different solution.

We must be more creative when seeking modern solutions to age-old understanding and the problems those conclusions caused; when you no longer have a hammer you must find a different way to drive the nail … or … you have to become the nail. Our physical experiences have led us to examine the influence of psychological ‘fitness’ on performance, learning, and exploration but it's clear that understanding the utility of fitness in the context of such inquiry is lacking.

We use the process of developing fitness to teach people how to change behavior … if they learn to control a single aspect of their condition it opens them to the idea that there are other parts of life and behavior one might consciously influence or change.

"I don’t know how to be the person that I want to be so I sought a guide … I looked for a situation within which there was no judgement about my current condition yet much opportunity to change that condition existed.”

Deeper into the conversation we addressed how poorly we as human beings are able to select the right person for a particular task or position; when it comes to choosing quarterbacks, CEOs at start-ups, or the right individual to augment an existing team, "you’re better off flipping a coin."

Concepts like emotional self-regulation, compassion for others, self-efficacy, the willingness and desire to be curious, resilience and grit do not present during interviews or result from psychometric test … so how do we make better selections? If we can eventually understand that then the outcomes will be more predictable, and better for our species as well as the spinning orb we inhabit.

Dig in, this is a good one.

https://www.liminalcollective.co/who-we-are

#221 — George Briones and The Differentials Aug 03, 2023

George Briones is a former Recon Marine (2007-2011) and Recon Instructor. He worked as the Director of Training and Programming at SOFLETE for eight years, holds a BASc in Sport Psychology and is currently studying to earn a MA in English language and literature. He coaches and educates a variety of athletes across a wide range of disciplines, from traditional strength and conditioning, and Olympic lifting to ultra endurance, combat sports, and preparation for military operational readiness, special selection and tactical competitions. He lived in Salt Lake City for several years during which time he trained and coached at NonProphet and became a dear, and trusted friend. George joined us for the Endurance is Love podcast, episode 175, which we recorded in March 2020 but didn't post until August 2021 and he was present for the late-May 2020 protests (mostly peaceful) that happened in SLC coincident with a NonProphet Symposium.

Life has taken him to SoCal where he is the owner/operator of GB3 Athletics. George sat down with Michael to discuss the state of the "fitness industry", which of course, kicks the conversation off with a good critique ... or rant.

They start by discussing the tendency for top level competitors — in this case BJJ but it applies to all sport — to focus solely on the competitive apex while letting the foundation slide, which leads to the concept of injury rehab as a powerful training factor, not only for peak performance but more importantly, longevity.

George talks briefly about a 2010 deployment to Afghanistan, the difference between rules and principles, on-demand, on-the-ground adaptability and flexibility, and how sometimes, the solution to a perceived fitness problem is not gaining more strength but actually reducing the force or load being applied to the organism. The idea that (lack of) mobility is the limitation applies not only to soldiers moving across terrain but also in individual physical expression of strength or other fitness characteristics.

It's a wonderful conversation wherein George presents his approach to training world champion level BJJ players, ultra-endurance athletes, and the seriously important concept of play in training because, if you're not having fun, you will compromise both intensity and volume and that could be the difference between a successful outcome or not.

https://www.gb3athletics.com/

https://www.youtube.com/@gb3athletics/videos

#220 — Wild But Teachable 2023 Jul 17, 2023

We first released this podcast in September 2019. I've been thinking about reposting it since we ran into West and Kami Taylor at the Tactical Games in St. George where Erin and Cinnamon and Michael were competing. West was far more fit in March 2022 than when we first met, happier, vibrant, and spoke excitedly about his obsession with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and the nagging injuries that always come up when practicing hard. It was wonderful to see them and to be reminded of how they climbed up from bankruptcy, discovered an entirely new way of life, with very different values from those they had lived by or chased before market circumstances took away all of the material things they believed were the key to being happy. As dire as this loss sounds, as awful as it is to imagine starting life over at the age of 40, it's exactly what West and Kami did, and their story is an inspiration, incredibly motivating, and a valuable reminder that it is never, under any circumstances, over, until you choose to quit.

If nothing else, hearing West's descriptions of installing early dial-up internet connections — where the quantity of phone lines limited simultaneous use to 96 people — is a fine example of how much has changed since the early-2000s, and how we take gigabyte level up and download speeds for granted.

These days (as was the case in 2019) West and Kami train wild horses, having spent the last 13 years dedicated to the human-horse relationship and science-based horsemanship. In 2019 they took a few of the NonProphet crew out on an overnight, backcountry horse experience after which we invited them to drive up to record a conversation. They joined Mark, Michael, and Josh Tyler in the NonProphet podcast studio (known as the Dissect podcast studio back then) to talk about what it means to be wild but teachable, to start all over, and to thrive.

His motto is, "Slow down faster to get done sooner," and I think we could use a heavy dose of that lesson when the world is racing all around us.

https://wildwesttaylor.com

# 219 — Alaskan Magical History Tour Jul 05, 2023

On April 26th, 2023 Blair and Mark sat down to discuss their recent visit to Alaska, the mountains there, their influence, and events and adventures tied to, inspired and caused by them. They discuss grave loss, life after it, the love that may arrive in its wake, and the rescues undertaken to prevent such loss. Blair shares her first night on a glacier and much to her chagrin, missing the Northern Lights (again).

# 218 — Sam Elias, Journeys and Paradox Jun 18, 2023

Sam and I first visited on the podcast back in 2020, episode 134. We tried hard to find the truths we knew were present but couldn't quite get there. We didn't know each other well enough and they were turbulent times when we all felt some heavy emotional and cultural and moral stimulus but couldn't yet make sense of it. During the intervening years we both settled down a bit, or at least discovered ways to manage the stimulus without being overwhelmed into inaction (or too hasty action) by it. I believe we see and understand each other better now.

On this occasion, Sam joined me the night before he drove away from Salt Lake City, towing a trailer towards his new home in Kentucky. It was worth making the drive down from Montana to see and speak with him one last time before the frequency of such conversations will drop as the geographic distance between us increases.

Thematically, our conversation seemed to follow the arc of a young man into adulthood, passing through a long period of "angsty ambition" and "never enoughness", and how that hungry, thirsty, teeth-gnashing ambition, where commerce influenced behavior, and the need for superlative success was high delivered very little enjoyment. That said as the apogee of trying so hard has passed one may settle into a zone where success may be experienced without superlatives or broadcast, and one may express and experience mastery of skills and self apart from any audience or observation.

We close out our visit talking about shooting; the relationship between it and climbing, the possible life or death moments in any movement or manipulation, the risk calculus, and the appreciation for, and of life itself that arrives when we understand that actions have actual consequences. Both activities may be tools for contemplation, lenses that focus appreciation for life and living it.

# 217 — Trevor Thompson, Big Objectives, Little Time May 23, 2023

Trevor Thompson joins Michael and Mark to discuss the extraordinary snow year in the west and the wild — once in a decade — skiing objectives that such a winter make possible. Specifically, the huge accumulation of snow made it possible to ski from the top of Mount Whitney (14,505'), which is the highest peak in the Lower 48, to the road, something like 8000 feet of elevation loss. That's a big ski run, preceded by a big climb. Midway into that we disappeared down a rabbit hole to discuss electric vehicles, and older cars or trucks one can maintain on his or her own instead of being hobbled entirely should anything go wrong with the electronics or computers in the most modern vehicles.

Trevor nicely bridges from the concept of those who can't or won't learn what's necessary to maintain or diagnose or repair a vehicle to the topic of being hand-held through life, spoon-fed perhaps, where risk is interpreted or mitigated by an expert, where requisite knowledge and/or self-knowledge is rendered irrelevant and people are granted access to higher order experiences despite being unprepared or unable on their own.

Success breeds ambition, and technological development, which has allowed some to shortcut education and experience, has opened up adventure possibilities for those who do have the requisite experience and ambition. So the question at some point must be, "What's next?" Well, some things are doable because they're doable, not because they're fun.

Later Trevor and Mark talk about the "nerfing" of the mountain environment and its natural challenges, and the strange understanding that, "If I, a relatively inexperienced climber, is here, and can be here, then it must necessarily be safe ... ish." Transformative experience can only exist hand-in-hand with honest assessment and communication about that experience. Embellishment denies the experiencer access to the lessons that may have been available from that experience, that adventure.

Jump in, the snow skis just fine.

# 216 — Anastasia Sharp May 03, 2023

Disorder, Pathology, and Anger as Self-Love with Anastasia Sharp

Anastasia Sharp is a practicing therapist in psychotherapy with an extensive background treating substance abuse, trauma, and anxiety through the use of EMDR, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Ketamine and a host of other modalities. She sits down with Burkey and Michael to talk about her practice, what interested her in disordered mental pathology and how “therapy” can mean an almost infinite spectrum of helping you to better “human.”

# 215 — Kegan Returns Apr 25, 2023

Kegan Dillon used to work closely with us and has been on many, many episodes of the podcast. For the past couple of years he has been seeking and growing in a different zip code but occasionally visits to see what we are doing and to share what he has learned out there, on walkabout. He sat down with Michael in April to talk about the state of the fitness industry, learning from the students you are teaching, the concept of authority gained by accreditation rather than — and not reinforced by — actual experience and practical application, and marketing, the goddamned albatross of marketing. The bad version of it is manipulation. The good version is holding up a flashy thing to grab attention and then transmitting good, useful information, and that's a tough balance to achieve. If we defined it in a way we could live with it would be simple, simply, "sharing with the world what it is that you do ..." But marketing isn't truth and sometimes the marketed get caught in lies or omissions their business can't withstand. "Can you imagine how awesome our world world be if politicians were held to the same standard (re: lying) as the Liver King?" Yeah, that would be a fine world to live in but too few will confront a truth that might expose their own dishonesty and lack of integrity.

Deeper in the conversation Kegan and Michael discuss the importance of fitness as we age, 80s and 90s sort of age, and how one must have something to look forward to, something to work towards. If you can find no reason to stay fit or recover lost fitness it's difficult to motivate yourself to do anything but be sedentary. Will can carry you beyond yourself, but when Will goes, the physical world slides away with it. How do you keep going when you no longer want to? And it's not a question of endurance in sport, this is about life, about career, about work and making that work mean something or help change something ... without meaning there is no reason to keep breathing.

Finally, the conversation turns to concepts of trust, and freedom, and always keeping a "Fuck You" in your back pocket. Because if you are willing to walk away then you are free to do anything.

# 214 — Luke Nelson Apr 13, 2023

Luke Nelson is an endurance athlete, father, husband, P.A., ski patroller, and forever seeking deep and powerful experience. Blair and Mark spoke with him the day after the 2023 Grandeur Peak edition of Running Up For Air (RUFA). The conversation started on the topic of changing immediate athletic goals on the fly according to how you feel — and being OK with it rather than being bound to an expectation or particular outcome. He shared some stories of his stint with the U.S. National Ski Mountaineering team, racing in two World Cups in Europe, and a 71 mile-per-hour descent to qualify ... "I have to straight-line this mogul field and I'll either blow up and can say I tried, or I'll make it and be going to Europe". Commenting on the numerous ultras he has run, Luke speaks beautifully of all of the people who helped him do the hardest things, and that, "those people make running not solitary ..." Blair describes them as, "the physical people I get to be with in the mountains as well as those who are no longer here physically, but I still get to share those experiences with ... it's really powerful ..." and both share stories of being visited by ravens in the mountains; protectors, prophets, messengers, intermediaries between the spirit and material worlds who, when seen, may make one wonder "who that was". We speak about endurance efforts as spiritual practice, Luke's journey at Hard Rock and the growth that occurred during the almost-decade of trying to get in via the lottery and finally being accepted on his 10th try ... which would have been far different otherwise. "I was so grateful for the experience that there was never a moment during the day when I considered stopping or even wanting to stop." Ever searching, one of Luke's goals for the year involves a return to rock climbing, which he hasn't done since falling almost two decades ago, an accident that fractured his skull and put him in the ICU for a few weeks. We discuss the emotional journey and recovery needed to confront the fear that has solidified during the years away from that activity. We close the conversation on the topic of sponsorship and Low/No Impact outdoor events, the varying degrees of environmentalism that derive from the culture of particular sports, sorting trash from recyclables, washing dishes during the events to reduce garbage, and always trying to reduce our impact on the natural resource that provides us so much opportunity.

# 213 – A Much Richer Life Mar 28, 2023

When we first spoke with Matthew Weatherly-White on the podcast in 2018 (Episode 14), we discussed recovery, athletic longevity, endurance, desiccants, exercising for an audience, intelligent self-awareness, transubstantiation, personal reinvention, the evolution of capitalism, impact investing, the discipline to do less than you think you have to, and tried to apply behavioral economics to fitness. It was an incredible conversation.

Five years later, much has changed in the world and for us as individuals. We started this conversation with the topic of SVB, banking in general, and how Matthew's company handled the 2008 crash, including the idea that safety nets encourage risky behavior. We diverted towards famous podcasters, the rarity of independent thought — which can either marginalize or work in one's favor, digital interface with a virtual mob, the benefits of negative experience, and briefly spoke about the U.S.' war on drugs, money flow, arms sales, and how cartels sometimes step in to provide community services where the government doesn't. Somehow this led us to explore Adam Smith and his "moral framework" of capitalism, which most people ignored in favor of ever more reductionist positions that produced a form of capitalism he actually did not advocate.

This splendid conversation closed out on the topics of publishing, and an almost euphoric description of surfing, courage, and making it into the local line-up. It is indeed, a conversation about the richness of life.

# 212 — The NP Four Mar 20, 2023

Michael starts the conversation by declaring that social media is a record of, "all of the stuff you don't normally do." Neither Blair, Erin or Mark could disagree so we moved on to the topic of expertise, addressing differences between that derived from actual experience rather than from a credentialing body or process and the value of each, as well as how expert conclusions are often shaped by funding (we see you, Nutrition). If science results from consensus, i.e. from a number of people testing different hypotheses and settling on a conclusion, does this mean that the consensus is always right, or true, or useful? Big jumps in understanding often result from individuals not doing the same as had been done before, not following the consensus. So maybe we should all speak up when folks tell us to keep our in-expertise to ourselves.

# 211 — Triple 7 Mar 03, 2023

Logan and Jariko are veterans, BRCC frontmen, and present-day explorers. They were part of team that set a record for 7 parachute jumps on 7 continents in less than 7 days. In this episode, we discuss fear, risk, and continually pushing the boundary of the unknown in order to have — and then share — new experiences.

# 210 — Maury Irvine Feb 20, 2023

Maury Irvine was born in San Francisco in 1924. He was deeply moved by the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor and immediately attempted to enlist in the Navy but due to a birth defect in one eye he was turned away. Maury was determined so went back 27 times, hoping to catch a recruiter who would let him pass, but didn’t. He was eventually hired by TWA Airlines, who had lowered the eyesight requirement because of the war, but after realizing he would be desk-bound there he joined the Merchant Marines. Maury became a decoder during WWII, working closely with the ship’s captain and traveling the world. His fascination with travel, science and culture took him all over the world, at one point he visited 33 countries in seven years. He holds a PhD in physics, taught at Lehigh University and worked for Bell Labs during the development of the transistor computer, among other projects. After retiring Maury volunteered at The Museum of the Rockies, where Jack Horner was the Head of Paleontology. The pair hit it off and eventually traveled to five different continents together digging for dinosaur bones. Maury volunteered at the Museum for almost 30 years and donated over 10,000 hours of service. He has lived a remarkable and inspiring life, and Blair and I are fortunate to have spoken with him for this podcast. For further insight check out Blair’s essay about her dear friend on the NonProphet website.

# 209 — Justine Hewitt Jan 21, 2023

Mark and Blair sit down to talk with mountain athlete, Justine Hewitt. Blair and Justine met in the valley of the Grand Canyon a few years ago when both were running the Rim 2 Rim 2 Rim for fun and decided to finish their route together. Justine is accomplishing big feats in her local Utah mountains and beyond while remaining under-the-radar (for now). They discuss Justine’s 2022 win at RUFA (Running Up for Air), where she completed 11 laps on Grandeur Peak for a total of 63.8 miles and 35,618 feet of vertical gain in 24 hours. It’s easy to understand Justine’s nickname ‘The Queen of Vert’ from her single day efforts and her 500,000 vertical foot goal for 2022 (which she reached in early November). They also discuss her first 100-mile effort, The Millwood 100, a backyard vert fest that criss-crosses the Wasatch, created by local athlete Jared Campbell. Justine set the Women’s Fastest Known Time and was one of 22 total to ever complete the route at the time. While the numbers are impressive and indicative of Justine's strength, grit, and determination, it is her gratitude for being in the mountains and her enthusiasm to encourage others that shines more brightly than any trophy or accolade. She trains quietly every single day and approaches each chance to be in the mountains with humbleness and appreciation. She is grateful to be out there and her excitement and gratitude — her spirit — reverberates along all the trails she runs and through all the people she runs with.

# 208 — Human Design with Phil Redd - Part Two Dec 28, 2022

Phil returns for an attempt at a “more clear transmission.” In the last episode Phil felt like he was off, and true to his incorporation of HD he wanted to get the environment to be a better fit so that he could speak more clearly on a topic he knows at a very deep level. I think if you listen to both you can hear a difference. Chalk it up to “living your design",” or just a feature of getting more comfortable, either way, this episode explores HD from a different angle (even though we cover similar topics).

HD is a ridiculous premise. It has unbelievable origins, but at its core, Phil tries to establish that it is a practical system, based on very physical phenomena. And the benefits you can get from understanding it has nothing to do with “belief” or “faith.” In fact, it has to do trial and error, experimenting, and remaining curious about our intrinsic and unique experience as humans.

# 207 — Human Design with Phil Redd Dec 17, 2022

For the last few years, Erin and Michael have been entertaining the idea that there is a known, predictable pattern to how each human is deeply individual but operates within a given nature. This is known as Human Design. It is a quirky, surreal experiment of sorts, easily dismissible as woo, and yet, somehow, highly effective. Phil Redd was responsible for exposing them to the concept 3 years ago and has continued to teach them the intricacies of this vastly complex system with a skill and expertise that is rarely found in a world that latches on to high ideals and mysticism with little to no backing. It is admittedly hard to swallow, but it is more logical than it first appears, and Phil is as good of a guide as they come. In this episode, Phil explains some of the pieces that make Human Design a unique lens through which to look at the world and yourself through. He goes into the history of its founder Ra Uru Hu, and the unbelievable mystical experience that has become a worldwide phenomenon. This is Part One of an unexpected two-part series. Phil recorded this first episode and realized that the circumstances of it didn’t match up to how he best transmits detailed information, so we recorded another with a few adjustments that will be released next week.

# 206 — Blair Goes Racing Nov 22, 2022

Mark sits down with Blair Speed to discuss the concepts of effort, process, competition and achievement in the context of climbing and trail running among other activities. They examine Blair's running and racing (and professional work) season, and talk about preparing for and executing two back-to-back 50km trail races. They conclude that one universal concept still holds true: pay attention, be self-aware, control what you CAN control in order to spare the horsepower needed to address what you cannot control when it truly matters.

# 205 — Cinnamon Snacks Nov 08, 2022

Michael, Erin, and Blair talk with “Cinnamon” about their experience at The Tactical Games back in March of 2022. They cover topics like women in tactical sports, using magical rocks for fitness gains, the fitness industry as a honey pot for identity, and micro-dosing corndogs.

# 204 — Jesse Garcia Oct 23, 2022

Jesse is an actor, seeker, and thinker. He has a long list of professional credits, but what is more impressive is his desire to constantly reinvent himself. In this episode, he sits down with Erin and Michael to talk about his upbringing in a small Wyoming town, the long difficult road to breaking into the industry, and his approach to his profession that keeps him learning and exploring.

# 203 — Coach or Teacher Oct 10, 2022

Michael and Elodie discuss the topic of coaching and whether to keep doing it or not. Between them they have decades of experience training and leading and guiding others but recently, their level of job satisfaction has been put to the test by clients who go through the motions and nod along to the thesis but are unable to grow and change. Eventually, "there is no amount of money that can make dissatisfaction OK ..." And so the questions become, "Why don't people emphasize self-knowledge to a meaningful extent? and How can we change this?" So I suppose we are right back where we started.

# 202 — Connor McCrillis Sep 23, 2022

Climbing, Sailing, and Entropy

Connor McCrillis made his first ice axe during his freshman year of high school. We begin this conversation on the topic of DIY by talking about homemade boats (originally a blend of wood and fiberglass), and his first ice axes (laminating wood and carbon fiber, and stainless steel for the head) then we take a deep dive into sailing, hydrodynamics, racing boats, and DIY boat building, and coaching juniors to race sail boats. 

Deeper in, we reach the main point of the discussion, which is climbing, specifically ice climbing, and the set of carbon-fiber ice tools that Connor handmade for Mark. We talk around the concept of soloing, risk, and risk applied "socially" in the gym where there is little so it must be manufactured in order to enforce presence of mind. Social risk can feel just as scary or dangerous (and therefore motivating) as physical risk.

Connor neatly ties the intensity and precision required by soloing back to the proper execution of a jibe on a hydrofoil sailboat without settling the hull onto the water surface. The body awareness required to execute these maneuvers on the water are not dissimilar to the awareness needed to move over steep rock and ice, or to move purposefully and with elegance in the gym. 

"Where I live is in the middle of nowhere which means it's in the middle of everywhere."

# 201 — Burkey on Capacity Sep 10, 2022

During the 48-minute introduction to a discussion of the Capacity manual Michael and Burkey discuss fact checking, managing intent, contractual relationships, accurate communication (that sometimes requires punctuation), the differences between text and speech and the utility of each, and the peril of literal responses to emotional beings.

Eventually they address the Capacity manual and how to communicate our position on the topic ... how difficult it is to correct existing problems without creating new ones, and how writing to a reader is very different from speaking to a listener with whom you have just shared an experience.

It became clear that being able to do something doesn't imply understanding Why you can do something — and the why is important if one wishes to develop the characteristic. The gym can be a perfect atmosphere for discovering Self and ability honestly, it is a place where we may apply philosophy, and give it consequences, a place where you may become (and observe) your true self through effort.

This manual is the result of thousands of workouts, and at least as many questions.

# 200 — Adam St. Simons Aug 19, 2022

Adam is an Event Director, Tour Producer, and Artist Manager in the live music industry. He sat down with Michael to discuss the different aspects of music, the industry, and the general population’s relationship to entertainment. They cover ground on music as therapy, the troubles of industrialized psychedelic medicine, and inherent problems associated with commodifying art.

# 199 — Christian Craighead Aug 10, 2022

Christian Craighead was born in northeast England and joined the military at 16, eventually passing selection for the SAS where he served with distinction and made numerous operational deployments. In 2019 his actions — taken alone — during the Al Shabaab terrorist attack at the Dusit2 Hotel in Nairobi, which undoubtedly saved numerous lives, earned him the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross. We don't talk about that on this podcast — it's not our place — but we dive into some equally engaging topics.

# 198 — Adam Giles Reboot Aug 03, 2022

We recorded this podcast with Adam Giles in early-2019 and after listening again recently we decided to rerelease it. Some may have missed it then, when the podcast had a different name, but we also made an interesting prediction or perhaps more accurately, extrapolation, that has bearing on some events in the 2020-2021 time frame.

Adam's description of working at Nokia, and helping to launch the 6680 with a 2mp camera, is a trip back in time, to an era when some engineers were convinced that touchscreens would never be a thing ... wow.

After leaving an established career in Tech to apprentice in a gym, Adam eventually began coaching. He went from partying hard to smashing himself in the gym, and was enamored enough with the process to change his life, to begin training others, and maybe even help them to change theirs. But following a relatively short term devoted to the fitness space he burned out and returned to the field of technology marketing so of course we spoke about the difficulty of monetizing what we love, and how that affects the quality and duration of our love of the activity.

We also discussed the relationship between technology and health, recognizing the need to teach younger people how to use it, how it should be used, and how our relationship with handheld tech is changing human physiology, from posture to the trend towards being more sedentary. Michael posited that most poor health choices have compounding interest. If you think the cost is high now it's because you do not recognize the "eventual" cost, which will be really high ... quite forward thinking if we look at the co-morbidities affecting the impact of the recent virus.

On top of the drift towards more sedentary existence the social and media and commercial influence on the concept of fitness and health has created bad incentives that often steer people away from the real benefits of movement and dietary awareness. The outcomes being "sold" deal with how one looks on the beach, gaining attention and improved social status, but we believe the point of improving fitness is to have access to more and (more) diverse experiences.

If we want to change then accurate and rational "wanting" matters, and a proper guide is necessary to see-desire-work-achieve. To affect meaningful personal change we need guidance that goes beyond the physical and coaches (different from trainers) are not only exercise physiologists but exercise psychologists. Working on the invisible muscle of the mind is not a sexy reward so it's a tough sell.

Fitness practice can help you "look better", of course, but it will also help you to know yourself better and once you can do that you may eventually be able to accept who you truly are more often. And that will change your whole life.

# 197 — Ian Seabrook Jul 12, 2022

Ian Seabrook returns to the podcast after a three-year hiatus. Ian is an award winning Underwater Director of Photography in the motion picture and television industry who first appeared on Episode 55. At that time he was in Utah to document the production and release of REFUGE, the first large book produced by NonProphet. This year Ian's return coincided with the printing of POISON so we strong-armed him into making a short film about that.

Ian's underwater credits include “Batman v Superman”, “Deadpool 2” and “Jungle Cruise”, five episodes of the TV series, "See", and he was also the second unit cinematographer for Zack Snyder's "Army Of The Dead". More recently his work on "The Rescue" earned several cinematography awards, which we discuss intensively in this current episode.

We start this talk with an in-depth review of the underwater shots in "Man of Steel", and simple behind-the-scenes things like how to keep personnel safe in the tank while the SFX crew sets the water on fire. Ian also discusses the necessity of appropriate clothing, nutrition and fitness for long shooting days in water that is constantly extracting heat from one's body.

The conversation shifts towards the current state of film making and how it feels like cinema is a disposable medium these days (very different than in the 70s) and the sheer volume of output is shocking ... quantity vs quality diluted by frequency. We do a drive-by on the unreality of Reality TV and the difference between true documentary film and docu-drama or docu-fiction projects that are "dramatized" to "improve" the story. In an unusual twist, Michael brings up some of the positive aspects of new and social media but don't blink or you'll miss them.

In review, Ian's descriptions of shooting underwater sequences for "The Rescue" are riveting, and easily worth the price of a listen.

Ian's website:

https://www.dorsalfin.net

# 196 — Becky Switzer Jul 06, 2022

Becky Switzer approaches life with an openness, acceptance, and celebration of life-long learning. She is an educator and athlete who invests deeply in her community and people. She spent her younger — "soccer is life" — years playing goalkeeper and earned her way to a college scholarship at that position. These days she is recognized as one of the top climbers in her home state of Montana. During this conversation we speak about expectations, responsibility, sport performance, gender differences therein and the social demands that derive from the commodification of passion. The subtitle of this conversation could easily be, "The Antithesis of Acquisition". Becky is an inspiration whose strength, curiosity, hard work, and commitment to walk step-by-step along her own journey naturally moves others to greater effort, thus experience.

# 195 — Staley 2022 Jun 22, 2022

Ben Staley returns to the podcast for the first time in a while. Last time we saw Ben was in Death Valley February 2021, the time before that was pre-COVID, also in Death Valley, November 2019. We have all grown and changed since then. Michael and Mark chat with Ben about religion, and what a cool guy Jesus was, or maybe was, and conclude that if you just act like him you would be a pretty good person. Late we discuss "the art of making art", training one's creative muscle and habits, and how — when you are a creative person — every single one of your friends appears to be more productive and motivates you to work harder. We speak about POISON, the binding of which Ben attended made a short video. It was wonderful to fellowship with Ben for a few days; he is incredibly inspiring and we might work harder when motivated by his example.

Links mentioned in this episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BupZyoDNntc

@staley

https://www.nonprophet.media/shop/p/poison-sermons-on-suffering

https://www.benstaley.com/starbound

Starbound on Vimeo:

https://vimeo.com/285356395

# 194 — Yeah Baby, I Like It Raw Jun 01, 2022

In this episode, Michael, Erin, and Blair discuss fad diets. Blair shares her extreme introduction to the importance of a sans-gluten practice, and what it’s like to grow up in Florida on Hamburger Helper. After introducing The Buttery Bros to the practice of eating raw organ meat, Erin thought it would be productive to discuss the details about a small but growing community of food snobs that have taken an extreme position in only consuming raw meat and raw foods. Based on a centuries-old argument between Germ theory and Terrain Theory, the gang does their best to explain the details, the upsides, and the downsides of this diet.

# 193 — Pat Callis May 19, 2022

Pat Callis is an icon of climbing history in North America. His first ascents and early attempts span the distance from Southern California to northern-Alberta, Canada. While this conversation may not seem relevant to the topic of fitness, I believe it is because endurance is fitness and Pat is still climbing (and well) at 84 years of age. Our discussion will, I hope, become an important moment in the oral history of climbing. We discuss the first ascents of the Great White Throne in Zion, the Lost Arrow Direct, the north face of Mount Robson and early attempts on the Emperor Face, and the development of ice in Hyalite Canyon, among other events that have influenced climbing, especially in Montana and Wyoming.

When discussing the Great White Throne (climbed with Fred Beckey and Galen Rowell) I wondered aloud if that was the same face climbed in 1978 by George Willig in front of the Wide World of Sports cameras. That was actually Angel's Landing, which Willig climbed with Steve Matous, whereas I recalled him being alone. Mike Hoover ran the camera for that and the riggers were a Who's Who of the best rock climbers of the time.

Later I mentioned the "Retro" ascent of the north face of the Eiger using original gear, and again, my memory was inaccurate regarding Stephan Siegrest wishing to use a modern kernmantle rope. From the photos here https://stephan-siegrist.com/adventures/eiger-retro#gallery, it appears they did use old, laid rope, like Goldline (or similar).

For a unique perspective on climbing and Pat and the impact he has had on individuals around him check out Blair's essay in the Journal on the NonProphet website.

This conversation lasts 3hrs 45min. We could have broken it into two posts but that simply isn’t our style — full send, wherever you are.

# 192 — Beyond Human Sausage May 08, 2022

Michael and Mark start with a shallow dive into diet, then address the complicated vs simple conundrum and how people are first seduced by the apparently more effective nature of complicated or complex means only to learn — through actual experience — that the simple and fundamental are often more effective and reliable. And because this is current events podcast, aka the worst fitness podcast in the world ;) they discuss censorship, aka content moderation, freedom of speech, and the great entertainment theater involving Elon Musk and his acquisition of Twitter. Then, unafraid of their lack of expertise and certainty, they dig into politics and the patenting of synthetic foods before discussing the production and launch of POISON: Sermons on Suffering, the demand for which caught them wholly off guard.

# 191 — Josh Tyler on Energy May 04, 2022

Michael and returning guest, Josh Tyler sit down for an intimate discussion on energy, the physical, metaphysical, and how the inexplicable world may map into the material. They talk about gender, sex, and energy as it relates to “old world” knowledge, and how creative energy is sexual energy, or possibly, how you mate might be how you do anything.

# 190 — Recovery From Injury (Reboot) Apr 15, 2022

This podcast was originally recorded in June 2018, six months after Mark's first hip replacement. We are reposting this conversation, which focuses on injury, recovery, and return to activity in light of Mark's second hip replacement, and the fitness lost during a period of idleness enforced by a positive COVID test and seven-week moratorium on surgery imposed by the local hospital system.

Michael and Mark speak with Andy Dorais, an E.R. physician who has represented the U.S. in the Ski Mountaineering World Championships, holds the fastest known time on the White Rim Trail near Moab, and once traversed the summits of the SLC skyline: 65 miles and 30,000′ of elevation gain in a single push. Joining them is Brian Harder a physician assistant and endurance athlete (who appeared on Episode 4) to cover the topic of recovery from injury — both guests blew their ACLs last winter — and speak of their different recovery trajectories and return to sport. During the third hour of the podcast Brian and Mark discuss hip replacement and the aging athlete.

# 189 — Coldfear Apr 08, 2022

Aaron Mulkey is a climber and kayaker, likely best known for the hundreds of first ascents he has made in Wyoming and Montana, so we talk about climbing and the exploration required to discover new drainages where ice might form. But before that we speak about kayaking and whitewater and the dynamism of the medium compared to the relative calm nature of the climbing environment.

Early in the conversation I describe an encounter between Michael Dimitri, Steve Mascioli and a malnourished black bear (which I mistakenly refer to as a grizzly) on the Tokositna Glacier in Alaska. Following up with Michael recently, I learned some more details which we have posted in the NonProphet Journal as companion read for this conversation.

In a fascinating departure from the norm, which has people scouring the internet to learn about a route or its current condition, Aaron prefers to explore, to seek ephemeral routes that may not exist or be "in" rather than wanting all of the available knowledge the internet may provide before even leaving the car. "Most people don't chase the unknown because it seems scary but I'm going to choose that every single time. I mean, if you don't know anything about it so what is there to fear?" Knowing about something implies you have some control over it but that simply isn't true. He also prefers to climb new routes because, "repetition is in opposition with creativity."

Of course, we do speak about fitness, and how cardio is king because approaches in the South Fork of the Shoshone can involve hiking 5-6 miles with all of the gear, etc., "and I need to be 100% on the route after finally reaching it." Maintaining a year-round level of fitness is required to take advantage of ephemeral conditions — when routes can form and disappear in a matter of days one must always be ready. We also discuss the application of "artificial" training (in the gym) to sport-specific activity, avoiding overuse injuries, and diverse types of training (power and endurance and the combination of them), developing a good relationship with recovery, and mass gain vs. power-to-weight ratio.

We wrap up by addressing the concept of the psychological habit of injury that remains after the physical injury has been healed, the psychological habit of being injured and changing behavior, risk-tolerance, etc., and having to back off a bit to slowly recover confidence and the belief in one's ability to return to the highest level ... because continued negative reinforcement is not the answer.

And if you stick around until 3hrs 20min you'll hear Aaron describe doing a 2km Ski ERG TT at 8500' of altitude.

Aaron's website: https://coldfear.com

# 188 — Space, the Only Frontier Apr 01, 2022

Michael and Burkey discuss the Space Program, which has become a creative solution applied at the point when training has become habit and automatic and rote or robotic adherence to a (useless) formulaic "plan". The program is also misunderstood, at times even by us so once again we dig into the heart of it to see whether can be any more clear this time around, or whether we have learned more about it by doing, creating, and experiencing training tasks that make us think, that cause psychological as well as physical change.

Sometimes the best things begin as a joke ... truth is often discovered in the humor and spite and "I'll show you" responses to the behavior or circumstances we witness all around us.

# 187 — Poison One Mar 21, 2022

Michael and Mark discuss the forthcoming book, "POISON — Sermons on Suffering", which, if paper availability doesn't shut down production, should be available from NonProphet in late-April. They talk about the origin, the time-travel involved with revisiting and rewriting essays first published behind a paywall several years ago, and how to eat an elephant. The essays, or sermons, were published weekly, which allowed time to assimilate and digest. Having 141 of them available in a single, 456-page book is rather daunting.

The conversation flows to Michael's recent experience at the Tactical Games — a combination of fitness and shooting challenges — the previous weekend and lessons learned from it. Simple things like, "I laughed at myself because I was thinking about shooting while I was shooting and that lets me know that I'm not good at it," and, "sometimes you just need to be distracted from your own self-defeat." It's a quick conversation, and full of gems.

# 186 — Meesh From Montana Mar 07, 2022

Mark and Blair sit down with Meesh Metcalf to talk about love, loss, navigating grief, the land, the future and how to hold on to what we love without suffocating its spirit or changing it permanently along the way.

Meesh was born, raised, worked and works with the land of Montana. She is a sixth generation Montanan, and jokes to the transplants she knows that she is their ‘token Montanan friend,’ while also being the first to acknowledge the land makes and creates but is not owned.

She is a yogi, a teacher and student, fiddle player, athlete, mountain runner, rancher, writer, and a healer. Each of these avenues of self are held together with her passion, fire, and easy directness. Her classes at Ekam Yoga are full and filled because of the fire and heart she emanates. Meesh is loyal to her people, to this special land, and to her own heart as she navigates life, loss, love and the ability to connect with others through it all.

She is a spitfire and a gift to the people in her life.

# 185 — The Space Program with Elodie Feb 24, 2022

We recognize that we haven't explained clearly the motivation behind the Space Program or its utility so Michael and Mark sat down with Elodie to make the first attempt. We will release a second conversation on the same topic with Burkey in a few weeks.

Despite a rough start and some loss of data during a complete website redesign, the program is a remarkable coalescence of creative and adaptable training examples. Now in month 18 of its existence, there are over 400 workouts with very little repetition and a lot of entertaining and demanding explorations.

This episode was also a test-drive for the new studio design and video recording. We weren't completely happy with how the multi-camera video and lighting set-up so instead of broadcasting visually this one will remain audio-only, despite references to the contrary during the conversation. Stand by for video in the future, and perhaps a second podcast title under the NonProphet banner.

# 184 — Anonymous 2 Jan 31, 2022

We start our conversation with another anonymous guest on the topic of days we should “never forget” but already have, and workouts to commemorate them. This leads to a discussion of so-called Hero WODs and whether they honor appropriately, are simply self-aggrandizing or virtue-signaling, or actually offer the opportunity to sit with pain for an hour or two and remember that others have, and are hurting even more. We conclude by recognizing that, if every politician had to do a heinous workout for every service member who died, well, we might stop sending boys to war.

Then we move on to the geopolitical segment of our podcast to discuss how little we know or understand about the dispute between Russia and the West or the topic of security and, of course, Ukraine. We fully understand that we live in an era where one's world view may only be based on headlines, never on the details, examination or nuance. Michael does a nice job of tying group, political behavior to human nature, and even manages to overlay that on what he thinks Putin may be trying to accomplish.

With the warm-up concluded we explore the difference between whether people — citizens and their political representatives — actually want individuals to have choice or do they want to be told what to do? And who gets to do the telling? The hubris in the tone of the tellers, the certainty of their diktats contradicts nature. They think they are aware but mostly they (and we) aren’t, and considering this, it is tough to allow anyone to tell me what to do — or declare the correct thing to do — when they can’t explain why heart stem cells (or heart cells derived from IPSC stem cells) develop a beat in vitro ... just sayin'.

Learning to live a life of independent choice has much to do with awareness and the quality of the questions one asks, which influence your understanding of what you might or should do. Once you can ask appropriate questions you move from, “this happened to me and I have no agency” to “what can I do with this?” The answer(s), when you are able to hear them and willing to act upon them lead towards independence, away from dependence. That said, sometimes, perhaps more often than we realize, the cumulative effect of many choices made in the past prevent the choices we might make now from altering the course of your life — in the context of exposure to a pathogen, and otherwise. Watch, take care.

# 183 — Steve CV19 Jan 20, 2022

One month before the NonProphet crew got COVID our friend Steve was deep in it. After being hospitalized his illness progressed to the point that End Of Life discussions were held with his advocates. He came through an experience that was different than ours and learned some interesting and useful lessons so we decided to talk about it.

One of the first topics to arise was that of self-responsibility, which begins with awareness, an accurate assessment of one's current condition, and most importantly in this case, a strong personal desire to live. Medical personnel cannot make you want to survive, that must come from within and if you can't muster the will to live through a few weeks in the hospital (and all that ensues) you might not.

We also addressed the fact that it is really difficult to know what to do, and how to behave to remain healthy enough to avoid the hospital. We should have plenty of data and experience after two years of the virus circulating but attempts to collect and clarify the data are seen as efforts to minimize the threat — these are not the same thing. The only deliverable we have been offered after all those months is, "Get vaccinated." Surely this is not the best that the human species can come up with.

Data collection and analysis on an individual level is made more difficult by lockdowns. The more isolated we are the more we depend on technology, and the less accustomed to actual face-to-face social interaction we are. This allows whatever information that is permitted on various tech platforms to become authoritative declaration with little possibility for discussion and examination. And so isolated, the recipient of such information is even less able to critically assess it because people with whom they might discuss it aren't in close proximity, or have been washed down their own rabbit holes.

We spoke briefly about mandates and concluded that it is difficult to message properly (as policy) to people who aren’t receptive to it. We asked, "how do we tune the listeners to be more open and receptive?" but had no immediate answers although we did realize the difference between tricking people into changing their behavior and making them do so is that the latter causes resistance, while the former may not. Government too often resorts first to "make", i.e. coercion, rather than exploring the more difficult task of incentivizing citizens toward the behavior they believe best.

Perhaps lives were saved by these measures but were lives improved? It's a good question to ask.

Finally, during the third hour we actually talk about fitness, and how to program one's post-COVID recovery, which was distinctly lacking in the hospital discharge papers — and everywhere else on the internet, except here: https://www.nonprophet.media/journal/covid-recovery

# 182 — Stacy and RC Dec 23, 2021

We recorded this conversation back in October before London got sick and we were overtaken by events.

Stacy and RC Townsend join Blair and Mark to talk about art and photography and life. Stacy and RC Townsend join Blair and Mark to talk about art and photography and life. Stacy is a designer, photographer, and jewelry-maker while RC is currently (f)unemployed. We discuss the importance of mentors, people who believe in you, as well as the value of those who don't — because you need someone to tell you that you can't before saying, "I'll show you." Blair describes how heart is the source of art, and our human tendency to seek validation and then deal with criticism after putting art/heart out to the world.

In a random rabbit hole, Mark talks about his first trip to the Himalayas (an experience founded in insecurity while his partner, Jeff Lowe, had a different experience, one founded in absolute confidence). Climbing may appear to be very different from art but at the source our motivations and drivers are human, and therefore similar. We talk about the craft of writing, how difficult it is, and also, on some days, how it flows. And to get over the hesitation about the words being good enough Blair advises, "Just vomit the words and press 'Share'". Shortly thereafter, she assures Mark that there is still time for him to become a romance novelist ... instead, he invents the Romance Zine ... aka the 11-page romance novel.

Finally, the conversation turns to Stacy's unusual anti-marketing marketing; her website has been under construction for six years and she has made seven total social media posts yet she enjoys a full plate of work based solely on word of mouth and satisfied clients. This is pretty wild in an era where it seems like folks spend more time marketing than they spend making or creating.

"Full Send wherever you are."

Links to chase in this convo:

commonform.co

townsendcollective.com

blairspeedcreative.com

# 181 — London Forever Dec 10, 2021

On November 19th Erin and Michael lost their 13-year old daughter, London, to a rare disease (HLH). It was an intense fight and escalated faster than anyone could cognitively understand. One of our practices is to be open and honest about our process and how we work influences how we live. This is the start of that conversation, of realizing your worst fear and stepping up to confront all that comes with grief, pain, loss, and love.

# 180 — James Nov 16, 2021

Our conversation with James (NLN) kicks off with the topic of Afghanistan and the US exit therefrom, regarding which he quips, "If you wait until the last minute it only takes a minute." Deeper in we discuss the benefits and problems that come from youthful (and adult) insecurity, and how the threat you are preparing yourself for might not be the one you confront. And speaking of illness, we talk through cancer, treatment compliance, smokers outside the cancer ward, and take a brief look at the Why of longevity. Over the course of the discussion we address the potential benefits of trauma and its ability to fix chronic stress, the failure of Box Breathing to address the stagnant weight of bureaucracy, and the notion that chronic pain makes you a shitty person. Finally, for the sake of positivity we chat about which shape or form the apocalypse will take ...

"If the point of manipulating you is for personal advantage that's evil but if the point of manipulating you is for your own good that's called leadership."

179 — We Got The VID Oct 30, 2021

Some might consider this episode bombastic and cancel-worthy but we believe it to be informative with moments of hilarity. Erin and Blair join Michael and Mark to discuss their experiences with COVID-19, aka "The Wuhan COOF", which all of us had, shared, and — shockingly — survived. We chat about the variety of symptoms each experienced, non-standard treatments undertaken while under its influence, and talk over some ideas about how to return to physical activity and training, as well as, of course, the foods we craved and which TV shows and movies got us through.

#campcovid

# 178 — Broken Joe Oct 14, 2021

Joe Holmes cements the title of "most frequent guest" on the podcast. He stopped by on his way home from Europe where he was directing a junior development cycling team through races in Belgium, Austria, Hungary and Slovakia, as well as directing the national junior squad at the World Championships. Along the way he piloted the team car with a US Ambassador on board, drank fine wine, crashed a bike, took his first helicopter ride, and helped some racers bring home a little hardware.

# 177 — Slim Fast with Burkey Sep 22, 2021

Burkey returns for his sixth episode burdened with a little case of "empathy fatigue", i.e. when you exhaust your capacity to tolerate minor inconveniences. We had no useful advice or sympathy for him but did briefly discuss which affects us more, the virus itself or fear of it, and how one goes about vetting information should s/he refuse to take it at face value. After highlighting the difference between asking for permission and asking for information, which is an important distinction and one we are rarely able to self-monitor, Burkey accurately described 2020 by declaring, "it's about power, they need to do it willingly."

A discussion about the NXIVM cult leads to comparisons with the federal government ... I mean, why wouldn't it? Because, when someone else — someone in a leadership position, elected, self-appointed or otherwise — tells you what is information and what is misinformation, well, then you don't have to bother thinking for yourself. Wait, this podcast MUST be disinformation because we are encouraging you to think for yourself.

When the conversation finally turns to diet, Michael declares that it has nothing to do with science, that it is unknown and unknowable ... as mysterious as religion or the universe itself and yet, people "know enough to be ashamed" (of their behavior) but clearly don't care because, "they still drink SlimFast™."

Rabbit holes in this episode include Australia, the War on Drugs, marketing and shitty incentives, decision-fatigue, censorship, and raw milk.

# 176 — Another Perspective Sep 13, 2021

Michael joins Erin and Elodie Guegan to discuss their perspective on athletic training for females and their own journeys through the process of discovering, pursuing, and ultimately growing from their participation in sport.

# 175 — Endurance is Love Aug 26, 2021

Nine months before we published the NonProphet Endurance Manual Michael and Mark sat down with George Briones to discuss which aspects of endurance are important, how to present them coherently, and how to tune the language of fitness to communicate about this particular characteristic. The conversation wasn't intended to be a podcast but instead a forum to explore ideas and refer back to while writing the manual. This was recorded in March 2020 but/and remains relevant because the lessons are timeless and universal. So now it's a podcast episode.

# 174 — Quit, Don't Quit Aug 17, 2021

A few weeks back, Michael sat down with Tyr, Nichole, and Trevor from Black Rifle Coffee to discuss the valuable lessons surrounding the public’s reaction to Olympic athlete Simone Biles' voluntary withdrawal from the women’s individual gymnastics event. The importance of this — however trivial it seems — sparks something deeper, something primal and ancient to human nature, which is why the reaction was worth discussing. “Quit or Don’t Quit” is a fundamental question marking an intersection that each of us will have to acknowledge, and yet there are few honest conversations about it.

# 173 — Rob and Mitchell Aug 08, 2021

Rob is prior-military, now working in the civilian sector, and his son, Mitchell has just been commissioned as an officer after graduating from Army ROTC. Our conversation rambles over many topics, starting with, "What should I be reading?", and touching on language, fitness, tools and appropriate use of them, and Rob's experience of joining the infantry after graduate school in the post-Cold War era, among other things. It was fun to chat with an intelligent, inquisitive, and thoughtful 22 year-old who has chosen the path of service instead of a corporate career in the private sector.

# 172 — Scholarship Jul 22, 2021

Michael and Mark speak about the upcoming NonProphet Symposium, the importance of environment (again), skills as tools, tools themselves, scholarship requirements and applications to attend the Symposium as our guest. The topic of diet and specifically a "primal diet" rears its head, but they don't ever really talk about fitness.

# 171 — Julia Gumpert and Blair Speed Jul 14, 2021

Julia Gumpert, who appeared on Ep. 122 joins Mark and Blair Speed (Ep. 154) to discuss all things to do with endurance and love. To break the ice Julia talks about living in the south and seeking self-image in the external, specifically ancestry, her history and connection with land, and the stubbornness required to work it. She and Blair discuss the unique strength of women, love at first sight, marriage, being a military spouse, the languages of love, miscarriage and walking with grief. Together they explore their relationships with death, surviving, enduring, endurance as an expression of love, and that love is a hard thing we must constantly work to keep alive and vibrant. Two declarations stand out, "You can’t truly endure something until you know why you do it and where you’re going,” and perhaps more interesting, "When you stop trying to control everything then you can experience everything." The lesson of letting go is orbiting NonProphet lately and sooner or later someone is going to hear and heed it.
Social media handles for folks related to this episode:
@juliagumpert
@blairspeed
@gbriones_3
@_nonprophet_
@gritandteeth
@wfmft (on VERO)

# 170 — Boston and Greyson Gilbert Jun 30, 2021

Owner/Operator of Honeybeard protein, Boston and his brother Greyson Gilbert drove through SLC after completing a run event in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. They sit down with Michael and Erin to recount the harrowing story of losing their father—an F16 fighter pilot—to a conflict in Iraq where he paid the ultimate price protecting a downed helicopter from a botched SOF mission. They share their experience of healing from a seemingly unending tragedy, and the lessons that effort, and hardship provide when a father figure isn’t there to instill them.

# 169 — SF Derek Jun 16, 2021

Mark and Michael sit down with Derek to discuss risk, backcountry skiing, cortisol response, IEDs, getting blown up overseas, how great V-hull, sloped armor faces are, combat-related PTSD, counseling, and the utility of discussion and EMDR to treat and assimilate the aftermath of acute traumatic events, as well as the power of small group, honest, open conversation, expressing vulnerability, and the self-awareness required to remain (relatively) safe in high-risk situations. Eventually they discuss National Guard involvement during protests at Lafayette Park in Washington DC and what might be learned from that and similar events if civil, open discussion were possible in this era. Towards the end they talk over the practice of physical training — as a vehicle to tune one's psychology and emotion — and agree that doing so appears fix everything.

# 168 — America Now Jun 06, 2021

Michael and Mark review some recent events, discuss how our reliance on technology has placed unelected people (and algorithms) into positions of "leadership". As in, your vote doesn't matter because the fifth column is filtering what you see and shaping what you think you know in order to steer your behavior in a direction favorable to them. If they can get you to spend hard-earned money they can surely get you to misplace your political affiliation. As tempting as that topic was discussion shifted to over- or under-population, the relationship of population to climate change, and how easily we substitute socially acceptable causes and cofactors for the delicate and difficult-to-confront (potentially) real causes of certain problems. On a more positive note, Mark waxes eloquent and positive about Mike Rowe and his push to support the necessary and technical skills and jobs that once formed (and should still) the bulwark of our nation. In the closing minutes the new direction for the NonProphet business model is discussed, featuring an early offer for podcast listeners only to "get in on the ground level", or is it the top level ... whatever, the marketing department will figure it out.

# 167 — Zack Snyder May 27, 2021

I could write words to tempt you to listen to the words we shared but why not just click the “Play” button? Honor the words and the work. Or read the “Why” of it here.

Process > Product

# 166 — Thirty Minutes To Nowhere May 21, 2021

We had thirty minutes so we made some noise about labor, real estate, investment, and COVID. To call it conversation would be a stretch but it was all we had at the time.

# 165 — Mistakes May 06, 2021

Michael and Mark begin this conversation with a joke on the topic of mistakes, and wind towards a serious conclusion 90 minutes later. It may be said that, the most beautiful forms of creation are mistakes ... or can be, but also might not be, and the underlying lessons that may be learned are often hidden by the symptom or example the mistake itself produced.

# 164 — Burkey and Thurk Apr 28, 2021

Michael and Mark are joined by returning guests, Burkey and Thurk. The wide-ranging conversation starts by visiting topics of disease, parenting, comedy and misunderstanding, and how some comedians can get away with saying almost anything. They address the focus on "negative" news in the media, how it shapes our perception of reality — and ripens us for targeted advertising, and that begged the question of whether the future will be better or not. Burkey made the distinction that government is people, not an amorphous blob designed to evade responsibility, and if the world is sometimes heartbreaking, one of the reasons is that people are making heartbreaking decisions about policy that affect the world, and the people in it. And that lead to a discussion of mandatory vs. ranked choice voting. The conversation eventually turns to language, its limitations, and our misuse or too-casual use of it, which can lead to misunderstanding.

# 163 — John Barklow Apr 14, 2021

Mark, and Trevor Thompson talk with John Barklow about hunting, cold weather clothing, idealism, integrity, and even some random fitness topics. John served in the Navy for 26 years, with many of those in direct support of the SEAL Teams, where, at first he simply shared his expertise moving around mountains, and climbing technical terrain. He was recruited as an instructor at the Naval Special Warfare Kodiak Detachment, teaching all aspects of winter warfare, survival, and mobility in that environment. He was instrumental in the development of both the Personal Environmental Protective Survival Equipment (PEPSE) system, and Protective Combat Uniform (PCU). I met John during the latter project, having been hired as the Subject Matter Expert for that clothing system. After separating from the Navy John applied his vast knowledge of the environment, man moving within it and the clothing systems needed to do so, as the manager of the Big Game product category at Sitka. A lot of big game hunting in the northern hemisphere happens in remote mountains which, to quote a recent interview with Soldier Systems Daily, "leverages my decades of experience." It's a good, wide-ranging conversation. Check it out.

Links mentioned in the episode:

InstaGram @jbarklow

Soldier Systems Daily

https://soldiersystems.net/2021/01/06/sitkas-john-barklow-qa/

# 162 — One Year Later Apr 01, 2021

Michael and Mark take a quick look at the previous year, what has changed, what has not, the good, the bad, and the ugly. The shortest episode from NonProphet ever.

# 161 — Raw And Real Mar 26, 2021

Josh Goldstein, who first joined us for Episode 120 and came back again to discuss the Carnivore Diet in Episode 144, sat down with Michael and Mark to first talk about the meaning of words and their use. Per usual, various tangents ensue, to include eating a whole raw chicken, and a brief take on raw carnivore. Further along the trio explores the definition of "legalize" and "decriminalize", and the difference between something being legal vs. not being illegal. Again, per usual, they visit the topic of sex and pornography, specifically, the importance of communication before engaging in physical intimacy and sex, and the societal shame that prevents such communication. Finally, more serious conversation arrives and they talk about the COVID-19 vaccine variants, the why and why not, and exploiting the Krispy Kreme one-donut-a-day program for the vaccinated to bankrupt that shameless diabetes-provider. Michael calculates that, if you ate one KK donut a day from March 25th through the end of the year, it would total 72,000 calories and 5280 grams of sugar, which would make you more likely to manifest serious consequences should you contract COVID-19. And that's the state of our nation. Later, Michael left to train clients so Josh and Mark continued discussing societal influences on behavior, the social and psychological benefits of strict dietary manipulation, and its opposite. They addressed the importance of environment, and community, in-person social exchange, and the effect of the NonProphet project on those who participate, many of whom have emancipated themselves into new situations and greater opportunities. Strap in, it's a crazy ride.

# 160 — Back in the USSR Mar 17, 2021

I believe it was at the tail end of 2018 when Ben Staley came through Utah and I told him a few stories. This one, about two trips to the former-USSR I took in 1990 and 1991, was meant to be part of a larger piece that included a Zine and one or two podcast conversations on the subject. We got distracted by other ideas, and while I am not saying that the USSR multimedia project won't happen, it hasn't yet and this conversation is too good to let languish any longer. Trevor Thompson joined us for part of it, and we covered some good ground, focused mainly on a summer trip to the Pamirs with Ace Kvale in July 1990, and then another to the Tien Shan range, again with Ace and also John Falkiner and Michel Fauquet. We were hosted and joined on both trips by Alexey and Nicholai Shustrov (among others), both extraordinary climbers and adventurers in their own right. Sit back, relax, and enjoy a rather fun interview.

# 159 — Slightly Obsessive Mar 10, 2021

Trevor Thompson returns to talk with Michael and Mark about a variety of topics. The social commentary comes on thick and fast, especially when Trevor shouts, "You can make your own choices as long as you don’t disagree with me or my beliefs," quoting, well, a lot of those who would suppress your view simply because it isn't the same as theirs. This steered the conversation toward religion where Adam and Steve gave Divine Intervention a whole new meaning. Once we hit bottom and bounced, announced our new band, Buckskin Liberace, and talked about “righteous belief” as a perpetual energy system, we finally settled on something useful: how sleep and/or calorie deprivation affects decisions and behavior, then behavior in general. And sensitizing oneself to personal behavior and what influences it in order to develop a more predictable model of future behavior and then, to apply that to others in order to discriminate whether not they might be a good fit for our business. In the closing moments Michael asks, "What do you think your worst personality attribute is, what do you find most disagreeable about yourself?" This is a fine exercise for anyone and we all agreed it is “laziness” we most despise in our own selves … on the other hand we also concluded that the common thread binding us all together around NonProphet is being slightly obsessive.

# 158 — Hillary Allen Mar 03, 2021

Hillary Allen is an endurance athlete who holds a masters degree in neuroscience. She was the US Sky Running Ultra Champion in 2015, and finished third in the Ultra Sky Running World Series in 2016. In 2017 she was ranked first in the Sky Running World Series but during the Hamperokken Sky Race in Norway fell 150 feet down a cliff face, broke 14 bones and nearly died. After being rescued she underwent two surgeries in Norway and several more after being repatriated to the U.S. Despite being told she might never run again, Hillary dedicated her energy and time to rehabilitation and began racing and winning again just eleven months after the accident. During this conversation, which also includes Blair Speed, who first appeared on the podcast for Episode 154, we talk about running, education, disordered eating, body confidence, the importance of mentors, identity, injury, loss, the other bottom below rock bottom, riding out COVID lock downs in France, and the voice in her head that said, "This is it, Hillary, you're dying," right before impact.

# 157 — Cancelled Feb 24, 2021

Last October Michael, Kegan and Joe Holmes got together with Billy Innes, who first appeared on the Episode 48 of the podcast, to discuss the risk of speaking one's mind on social media, and how difficult it is — even when mistakes are made by the accusers — for cancel culture to reverse course or admit the wrongness of its righteousness. Billy is an artist and former professional cyclist, whose team still holds the record for the Race Across America, and he was also the director of the U.S. Junior National Team until some unfortunate events in 2020 caused USA Cycling to terminate his employment. Billy describes those events in detail, which should be eye-opening for many, and does not bode well for the future of civil discourse or civility in our society in general.

# 156 — Karen Jarchow Feb 17, 2021

I met Karen Jarchow at Rebecca Rusch's Gravel Camp in June 2019. She was helping out, instructing, guiding, and — as a bike relationship therapist — she almost got me to love my bike again. Her enthusiasm for the bike in contagious, after all, when describing her own relationship to cycling she declared, "I love(d) the sport so much that no matter how hard the crash, I kept getting up and trying again, and again, and again." She has raced fat bikes (2017 Fat Bike World Champion), gravel bikes (2nd at Crusher in the Tushar, and at the Queen's Stage Race [RPI] in 2018), and won the National Ultra Endurance Mountain Bike Race Series on a mountain bike in 2016 while racing with Team Topeak-Ergon USA. Since gravel camp we have shared more conversation than miles while she navigated a career-stalling injury (hip labral tear), divorce, the pandemic, ... 2020 was a doozy, shared with Piney, her two year-old cattle dog. Karen is the founder and owner/operator of the Vail Valley Alternative Sports Academy, a sports academy for kids where she and her instructors use, "cycling to educate a new generation of backcountry users in the basics of environmental stewardship."

# 155 — Charles Martel Feb 11, 2021

Tyr, aka Charles Martel is the Director of Corporate Giving at Black Rifle Coffee Company, a veteran of both military and contracting work who joined us for a conversation about the current state of affairs in his world, our world, and the world. Tyr describes rushing the Third Precinct in Seattle to rescue stranded police personnel in the CHAZ/CHOP, and the natural trajectory of that incident which had been foreseen in literature like Lord Of The Flies, The Beach, Animal Farm, etc. We touched on so-called, inaccurately-defined fascism and the tendency for fascists to battle bad ideas with power — in an attempt to destroy their opponents — instead of communicating better ideas that lead to a more useful, and progressive position. More often than not, these power-dependent individuals are public servants who are actually self servants, and concerned with consolidating power rather than improving quality of life or increasing opportunity for those whom they have been elected to serve. We discussed the unacknowledged risk factors associated with deployed military service of sleep-deprivation, dietary problems, burn pits, RF energy and cancer risk, and how the government relies heavily on contractors because it's an "Easy Button" for them. Charles stated, "It is far more cost-effective to pay someone six figures to do a job for a few years than to invest millions in their (medical coverage and) retirement." And while Mother Jones is talking (ignorant, agenda-driven) shit about the company they are quietly helping veterans through a variety of mechanisms in a way that government and other organizations are unwilling or unable to do. For example, Tyr describes the emerging field of Magnetic Resonance Therapy as it relates to those suffering from TBI, among other conditions, and how BRCC will be installing a MRT clinic at their SLC location, allowing veterans access at no/low cost. Only listen to this wide-ranging conversation if you have an open mind, willing and able to engage with ideas you won't find being addressed by mainstream media and binary, either/or leaders and led.

https://www.hunterseven.org/

https://coffeeordie.com/

https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/pages/about-us

# 154 — Blair Speed Feb 03, 2021

I met Blair Speed in the wake of great tragedy, two too-short months after her husband, Travis Swanson, was killed in a climbing accident. The words and images and emotion we exchanged in that wake led her to our space, our circle, to the safety of understanding and shared loss that seems to coalesce around the gatherings we sometimes host here. When I invited her to commune with us, she accepted, and replied, "Thank you for giving me something to look forward to when I didn't want to look forward." And how could she look forward, look ahead, to a life without her love, her guide, her protector, lover, teacher, love? How will any of us look ahead once we understand that who we love most deeply may be taken from us in an instant? Why do we count upon a future we only imagine — a future we have been sold as certainty — when we should be drinking the present, slaking our thirst for connection and love and understanding right now? Here and now. Blair does that, now. She is a writer, and a photographer, an antenna, her images communicate beauty, and empathy. Loss shapes her vision, gives her insight to the meaning and weight of the everyday, the hidden moments where our lives play out, where we make and feel connections, where we experience what we might not see until it is gone ... she photographs soul and spirit, she stops time, and preserves time, moments, seeing in subjects what they may not be able to see in themselves. Blair is physical, an athlete, an artist, and a survivor who has much to teach us about life, about living with such rage and love that we maybe, hopefully, never look back and ask, "What if?"

# 153 — Quick Hit Jan 27, 2021

Michael, Kegan and Mark take advantage of a free hour before FYF to talk about how to begin training after lockdown leads to being sedentary, aka the beauty of simply walking, and how the aerobic base built by doing so consistently can lead to other improvements. And then they veered toward the environment and our mistreatment of it — as a species that is a lot like a virus except we are killing the host. Michael's search for compostable packaging led to conversation about corporate entitlement, and capitalizing on the harvest of resources from public land ... and that led to some ideas about the parallels between religion and higher education, student loan forgiveness, and how intentional, organized default on credit cards used to pay for higher education could collapse a system that enriches itself with debt service and keeps employees obedient by leveraging that debt.

# 152 — Social Fast Jan 20, 2021

The topic and use of social media is more of a minefield today than ever and many are examining their relationships with the various platforms. Michael, Kegan and Mark discuss their individual ideas (again) and map out a plan to wean themselves and the NonProphet project off the social media teat.

The various issues addressed begin with the fact the relationships established using these platforms are subject to manipulation by unseen algorithms that result in a non-committal, low-quality way to engage with people. The poor quality of the broadcast (image quality, restricted audience reach, etc.) trains us to unwittingly sacrifice quality for the sake of convenience and that is a contagious characteristic that can infect all creative output.

Finally, from a business perspective, by using social media to reach potential customers, we voluntarily allow a third party to influence not only our messaging but also — again — our relationship with quality, and that refers to production but also to the meaningfulness of the relationships we establish and maintain by way of social media. The radical and likely the best solution is to cut off all use but until we figure out the mechanism to replace this particular addiction, which we believe we have done, then some use is required — the platforms (and our own behavior) have made us that dependent. It's time to flee this fouled nest.

# 151 — Drew Manning Jan 13, 2021

Drew Manning is a NYT best selling author, Coach, and Keto advocate. He first gathered attention in 2011 by purposefully gaining 72lbs of body fat and allowed the world to witness his ability to get back to a fit and lean state. Through that journey he discovered the power of empathy as a coaching tool that changed the way he saw his clients and the obesity epidemic. In 2020, at the dawn of turning 40, Drew decided to make the journey once more by gaining as much weight in body fat as he could in 4-months—during a pandemic nonetheless. He joins Mark, Michael, and Erin as he begins his way back to fit after gaining 62lbs of body fat

# 150 — Kevin McFadden Jan 06, 2021

Kevin is an athlete, business-owner/operator, seeker, new dog-owner and a fellow we have been talking with about fitness and competition and preparation and expectations and injury and dealing with all of that since mid-2018. In this spontaneous conversation — that surprised all of us — we cover a lot of ground. If you want to hear some insight about The Space Program, listen. If you want to hear some ideas about Spartan Races, listen. If you want to hear a neutral description of the summer in Richmond, VA, listen. If you want to hear about the influence of music on personal psychology and physical output, listen. If you love hearing humans talk about dogs, listen.

# 149 — Heidi Franz Dec 25, 2020

In another mobile installment Mark sits down with Heidi Franz and Joe Holmes to talk about riding and racing bikes. Heidi is a professional racer, currently riding for Rally Cycling. She describes her rapid trajectory to the pro ranks, from starting with a collegiate club where she earned the national omnium title twice as well as winning the national time trial and criterium medals, to guest riding for amateur squads and signing with Rally. She speaks about her experience at the 2020 Tour of the Ardeche and Tour of Flanders, training and racing through COVID in the US and Europe, maintaining "the bubble", the "disproportionate joy" of seeing a friend on the road while training alone during lockdown, and an off-season of eight 20-hour training weeks. Heidi graduated from Seattle University with a BFA in photography so they speak of that as well.

# 148 — Press Check Dec 16, 2020

Josh Tyler was visiting from the east coast so Michael, Kegan and Mark convinced him to sit down and discuss current affairs like prostate exams, virology, cannibalism, vocabulary and the effect of language on life experience. Later in the conversation they unveil the NonProphet New Years Resolution Challenge and discuss possible strategies for completion.

# 147 — Ian Strimbeck, RUNENATION Dec 09, 2020

Ian Strimbeck grew up in New England and spent a lot of time outdoors, hiking, camping and riding a mountain bike before joining the Marine Corps upon graduating from high school. After separating he earned a degree in journalism-focused communication, with a minor in psychology, and took a variety of jobs, doing executive protection, working doors, and eventually he began teaching firearm and blade skills. These days Ian owns and operates RUNENATION, and travels the country teaching a variety of thinking, shooting, and combatives courses. He combines his facility with language and a penchant for philosophy to impart the technical knowledge as well as his own experience to students of all abilities, with varying areas of interest. Ian holds a purple belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu.

# 146 — Try Harder Dec 02, 2020

Kegan, Michael and Mark talk about COVID, of course, how one should comport oneself when meeting and greeting others these days, and how to handle personal hygiene/care: wear a mask where appropriate, create distance when feasible, wash your hands, don't touch eyes, mouth, nose, etc., oh, and lose weight, eat better, exercise to stimulate immune function but don't crash it ... what else? They spoke about politicians too, and language, how culture influences lingual development and how language is the key to understanding a different culture or subculture.
Two things became apparent after this episode, 1) These guys complain about things but also volunteer to be exposed to them, and even use the tools that often vex them, and 2) they really do need to try harder.

# 145 — Keep The Buyers Alive Nov 24, 2020

Michael and Mark open this conversation discussing a fraudulent business and hypothesize how NonProphet might relax ideals and standards and ethics in order to achieve success using the same tactics. But lies and inauthenticity are not in their nature so marketing bullshit isn't on the menu. Part of any analysis of one's business includes understanding the value the company or association provides, is it simply a product, or does it include ideas, lessons, and examples that allow clients to improve their own circumstances, to grow, and to fulfill their own potential — and if the business was based on that, how would you profit enough to keep said business alive? Of course, the discussion devolves into marketing heresy tinged with acid commentary on political leadership that culminates with, "The point of wearing a mask is to keep the buyers alive", because if current society is anything, it's a marketplace, with a store on every smart phone and buyers kept unfulfilled and wanting and convinced that obedience and consumption are the keys to success, therefore happiness. Mark's solution is to do the opposite, using a neutron bomb to kill the buyers while leaving the infrastructure, wiping the slate clean to restart — apparently, he still sees no future.

Further along, the discussion shifts to The Space Program, and its value, and how the beta testers are using it and contributing to the evolution, which was (and is) the point. This, being a lengthy talk about fitness, is an unusual departure for the "worst fitness podcast in the world".

Finally, they talk about new COVID restrictions, the potential consequences thereof, and a recent article in the Journal section of the NonProphet website, titled "CLEAN", which explores new lockdowns in Utah and the ideas and "rules" in place to keep The Space (real not virtual) safe and useful, and contributing to individual immunity and resistance to, not only the virus, but also the tendency to obey regulations designed to for the lowest common denominator, which a self-aware, thinking and also considerate person, is not.

# 144 — Carnivore Nov 18, 2020

Michael and Kegan sit down with co-author of the Essential Carnivore Cookbook and the glue that holds everyone together, Erin Blevins, as well as 2020 guest of the year Josh Goldstein. They discuss their experiences with the carnivore diet, how to use diet and nutrition strategies to figure out what practice allows you to feel the best, not just lose weight or perform better, etc. The crew also touches on such hot topics such as the election, COVID-19, immunity, and the current, unavoidable social climate.

# 143 — Votus Interruptus Nov 11, 2020

We really wanted to have a post-election episode, once everything had been decided, but it seems very few things have been decided and we are in for a long autumn of recounts and legal challenges and Votus Interruptus. Of course, Michael, Kegan and I spoke of that but also of the newly-imposed COVID-19 measures here in Utah, how we feel about the virus (physical and social) nine months into the outbreak, and how we intend to address these new restrictions as a business — because we sure as hell won't be shutting down. Nor will we allow our space to become an incubator or our gatherings to become super-spreader events. I believe in our ability to rationally and individually handle this situation way more than I believe in the policymakers to consider varied application of restrictions to differing social circumstances and strata.

# 142 — Pre-Election Nov 05, 2020

Michael, Kegan and Josh Goldstein — a Californian "riding out the election" in Utah — talk about the election as it is happening, the notion that few are voting For while many are voting Against, discuss cancel culture (again), the leading cause of death, the difference between violence and destruction, how terrible life must have been in the mid-1700s for the True Sons of Liberty and the Loyal 9, (among others), to foment, plan and execute actual rebellion against the most powerful nation and military in the world at the time ... basically, what we have to complain about now doesn't rise to the level of that time, and besides, we are all too soft and weak to change anything at all. And in the end — spoiler alert —the election predictions made during this podcast may be wrong, just like weather forecasts. About one hour into the conversation the discussion turns towards the current education model for children, something the shortsighted, ruled-by-fear crowd has not adequately forecast, and the consequences will be dire — after those assholes are dead. Regardless of the rabbit holes and diversions, the lesson of the episode is clear, consistency is king, whether talking about McDonald's, Starbucks or politics, candidate homogeneity is probably more important than actual platform, much less the ability to actually execute it.

# 141 — Darryl Bolke Oct 29, 2020

Darryl Bolke retired after 19.5 years as a full time officer from a Southern California police department where he also worked as the Firearms Instructor and Armorer for the Special Weapons and Tactics Team for 17 years. He participated in the investigation of over 75 officer involved shootings, assisting with the firearms portion of these investigations, and provided expert testimony in regards to firearms usage and police tactics in numerous court cases. Bolke also developed and implemented a nationally recognized edged weapons policy and training program for law enforcement. He has trained with the best of the best, literally, and offers insight that can only come from years of training, and more importantly, years of real world experience combined with a rabid curiosity and appreciation of history.
This conversation ranges from the development of the MARS Armament THUG pistol to the differences between sport shooting and use of force shooting, the importance of training and education, the good and the bad aspects of modern policing, and the not-so-obvious value of an 8-shot, .22 caliber revolver.

# 140 — Looter Oct 21, 2020

This episode (recorded 9/1/20) starts in the gutter but quickly develops into a conversation about real estate and exodus-related price increases in states like Utah, Idaho and Colorado, where remote workers flock after realizing they don't need to tolerate the bullshit imposed by city, county and state governments in places like California or New York. Bullshit like increasing state taxes to the point that the most productive people — those most able to pay higher taxes — leave the state. And to impose those increases retroactively ... who in their right mind would participate in this Ponzi scheme? But since that topic was too serious and depressing we revisited the Ginocyde pizza shop idea, came up with the motto, "One slice at a time," because nothing goes better with pizza than self-determination, and realized that we are one cardboard box and logo away from opening at our new location, "Down the tracks, not across them." Enjoy!

# 139 — Reduced Oct 14, 2020

Michael and Kegan discuss the downside of specialization and reductionism with regards to nutrition, and fitness, and pass by way of a critique of the for-profit medical establishment. Of course, #fitnessisfucked comes up — after all, this is The Worst Fitness Podcast In The World.

# 138 — Casey Parlett Oct 07, 2020

Casey Parlett was in town to coach at a CF Level 2 seminar and decided it was a good idea to sit down with Michael, Kegan, and forever guest George Briones to discuss training, nutrition, a bit about his background in Muay Thai, and his views on the lack of society's ability to be self-aware and the impact that is having.

# 137 — The Space Program Oct 04, 2020

The first hour wasn't useful so we deleted it. Then we settled in to discuss an idea tied to The Space, which was what we call our gym. The Space Program is a virtual gym, where the more creative coaches in our circle may post and discuss training concepts they are working with, examples of the physical expressions of those concepts, i.e. workouts or training sessions, and where participants can interact about their own experiences with the sessions. We will offer (paid) access to the beta version on October 9th, 2020 during a 24 hour-long buying window. The beta test will last for three months and inform the "alpha" program that should go live early next year — unless it's a bad idea, in which case we would drown it in its own sweat.

# 136 — 300 Training Actual Sep 30, 2020

Let's talk about fitness! Or something. Fifteen years ago Mark designed and implemented the training, diet and recovery practices for the actors and stunt team making a movie titled "300". Some say this work changed how male action stars looked on the big screen, and whether that is accurate or not, the bodies shaped by this program caused a lot of speculation and imitation and tempted a number of frauds to claim they were there, did the work, knew the "secrets" and should be paid for having done so. This was fairly easy because the guy who did the work (and his assistant) never shouted from rooftops, or tried to recycle and resell the work. They understood that what allowed those remarkable changes to occur was specific to the particular context and involved many more elements than just the exercises. After "300" Mark trained actors and stunt crew for eight more Hollywood movies. Michael worked as his assistant or independently on four of those films. Recently, the brand, the company, once co-owned by Mark, offered a training program that follows "the exact regimen we used for our biggest movie clients", which is a fun marketing twist based on the premise that a brand or corporation is interchangeable with an individual. In response, Mark released the actual "300" training record fifteen years after the fact. The brand couldn't do that because no one currently employed there was present for that film or any other movie project where Mark (and Michael) were responsible for the outcome, held to a standard and a deadline, with real money riding on the results. If you want to read more about the motivation for this incendiary action you may find an essay here: https://www.nonprophet.media/300-training

# 135 — Chris Worden 2020 Sep 23, 2020

Chris Worden — who previously joined us for Episode 19 — is a photo journalist, motorcycle enthusiast, a student of physical fitness, and someone who entertains our ideas, and bounces them back at us, sometimes rather forcefully. Chris drove down to SLC to spend a week training, rewriting his dietary plan, practicing a little jiu-jitsu and basking in the much-needed fellowship that COVID has stripped from all of our lives. A few days into the week he suggested a podcast that developed the idea of the unifying theory of all conspiracy. While we may not have solved that conundrum several others came up along the way. This is Not Safe For Work, unless you work from home ... but even there, if you are easily offended or don't like opinions that are not your own, do not listen. Move along.

# 134 — Sam Elias Sep 16, 2020

Sam Elias has proven himself one of the most versatile climbers in the world, climbing everything from Everest to 5.14d, M13, WI6 and winning the Ouray Ice Competition. The water runs deeper than the physical and Sam's art covers a range from tattoos to wood block prints to t-shirts ... and pottery. He is thinker with broad sensitivity and the language to share that. In this epic (3hrs 20min) conversation we cover all sorts of things from ski racing to climbing to COVID to racism and the theme of empathy that ties these topics together in the spirit of a very complex individual.

# 133 — Ivan Loomis Sep 08, 2020

Ivan Loomis, aka @kit_badger, has had some adventures. In this conversation we catch up after first meeting at a shooting course in northern Idaho, Ivan talks about racing the Baja 1000 in a nearly-stock Toyota Tercel wagon, and, in a later attempt, going end-over-end in a Chevy Blazer when some critical steering components failed catastrophically. Deeper in we discuss his service in the USMC, and Air Force, and eventually as a security contractor. This talk is firearms-centric with emphasis on the thinking aspect vs. the gear aspect and introduces his cross-country Coast To Coast tour offering folks the opportunity to shoot some rather compelling firearms at Range Days along the way. Tune in to learn, and also check out his website and youtube channel where thoughtful and articulate gear reviews abound. www.kitbadger.com

# 132 — Eddie Haskell 2020 Sep 02, 2020

We were a bit scattered, which seems to be the way of the world these days, and didn't want to talk about anything heavy. But at least we stayed out of the gutter.

# 131 — To Yeet Or Not To Yeet Aug 27, 2020

Josh Tyler and Erin Blevins join Kegan, Michael and Mark to discuss random topics, some current and relevant, some less so. Politics, UFOs, Sexuality, Unemployment Benefits, Small Business — and market reliance on USPS to keep private couriers' pricing in check — and, of course, Language. Mark wonders ruefully about the past tense of "Yeet" ... until Michael derails the crew with a hypothesis about Cthulhu and the Fermi paradox.

# 130 — Kelly Halpin FKT Aug 17, 2020

Kelly Halpin is an accomplished mountain athlete, artist and author. We first spoke with her one year ago on Episode 79, and she returned along with Brody Leven for Episode 101. This time Thurk helps guide the conversation about her recent traverse of the Wind River High Route — 100 miles, 30,000 feet of elevation gain — in 59hrs 37min, setting the fastest known time for a solo unsupported crossing. She grew up in Jackson, Wyoming so the mountains are in her blood, and graduated from the Art Center College of Design with a BFA in film, which shows in her art and photography and how she sees the world around her. This conversation is gold.

# 129 — Divine Feminine Aug 08, 2020

We had to redeem ourselves after Ep. 128 so we decided to talk about conviction and monotheism and the Divine Feminine ... which should balance the glory hole discussion nicely. Then, after some brief housekeeping about various fetishes mentioned in 128 Michael, Kegan and Mark settle in to a discussion of training and the lessons that may apply universally across many different disciplines or human endeavors, concluding that (long) experience leads to the ability to improvise, and that the specificity of technical practice is very important. Deeper into the conversation we discuss diet, the practice of it and books about it, which some listeners may find useful. The episode does finish with a quick mention of cannibalism, which, I suppose is still on the topic of diet. Enjoy.

IG handles of allies mentioned in this episode:

@samkempcj

@runenationllc

@payson

@rangefox

@kit_badger

@one_7_six

@firstspear

@gbriones_3

# 128 — Down the Glory Hole Aug 05, 2020

If you are easily offended or triggered feel free to skip this episode. We were exhausted after the most recent Symposium so very little of this conversation provides knowledge. That said we started out talking about dogs, which is always good. Then it turned towards genocide and then pizza ... what good could possibly come from this? Josh Goldstein returns, along with Ben, Lambear (of God), and Sparkle. If you do choose to listen it may be best to stop after 13:25 but if you're curious and tolerant you could risk it until 17:42 before bailing out because it's all downhill from there. Let's just say that if you are into rabbit holes but not glory holes stop listening before the 38-minute mark.

# 127 — Our Most Dangerous Episode Jul 28, 2020

On July 23rd, 2020 we dove headfirst into a conversation about racism. Present were Mark, Michael, Kegan, Patrick (Kegan's father) and Mike Thurk, whose eyes were opened when he attended protests here in SLC on May 30th, coincident with the NonProphet Symposium held that weekend. The protests turned to riots rather quickly and it was all within earshot and sometimes sight of our building. Thurk returned to Colorado, participated in events in Denver and Aurora, photographed, conversed, considered, meditated and returned to NonProphet two months later to share what he had discovered, to challenge our positions, and to help steer the discussion while we all worked out what our ideas are. This is a difficult topic and this is our most dangerous podcast episode ever.

# 126 — Jack Carr Jul 20, 2020

Jack Carr is a former Navy SEAL sniper and NYTs bestselling author of three novels, THE TERMINAL LIST, TRUE BELIEVER, and SAVAGE SON, two of which were on the NYTs audio bestseller list simultaneously. He is a prolific reader, influenced as a writer by many of the greats of the "military/spy novel" genre, and a man who understood exactly what he wanted to do with his life at a very young age. He is a warrior-poet, self-described "gear guy", and a seeker. In this conversation he and Mark discuss their overlap in experience and relationships, development of the PCU cold-weather clothing system, light haul system, all sorts of nerdy shooting stuff, and remember great men who did and are currently doing great things. It's a talk about action, and writing, politics and current events where few stones are left unturned but enough are that a second conversation is inevitable. Tune in. Turn on. And enjoy.

Show Note: When discussing Rick Sylvester's amazing ski-BASE jump at the opening of "The Spy Who Loved Me" in 1976 Mark confidently, yet mistakenly identified the exit as Mount Thor when it was actually Mount Asgard. But because that bit of the chat was so fun it was not edited out, Mark figuring it is more honest to simply remain embarrassed for the rest of his days.

# 125 — Three Amigos and a Virus Jul 13, 2020

This is a rambling episode during which Kegan, Mark and Michael speak briefly about peace officers and riot officers, the problems they deal with and the ones they have, with specific attention paid to shooting accuracy in the context of old NYPD statistics and a recent event in Salt Lake City, as well as the dehumanizing aspect of a uniform and job choice. Public guillotining receives attention (again), as do term limits and the political support that encourages and allows the behavior by police that citizens are currently protesting against — the same political behavior that creates solutions to problems they themselves have created. We learn that Kegan hates masks, Mark believes they are more effective at controlling minds than virus transmission but wears one in deference to others who have different levels of comfort when spacing cannot be controlled, and Michael conducts himself as if everyone already has the virus.

The main takeaway from the first hour regards paying attention how difficult it can be for some to notice the distance between themselves and their fellow humans, or when they touch their faces, etc. To live “normally” it is imperative to educate ourselves about the mechanics of virus transmission, why plain (non-anti-bacterial) soap works to deactivate the virus, and ultimately, to practice self-awareness.

Other topics include cocaine, sushi, fireman calendars, and managing focus to accomplish particular objectives.

# 124 — Profit Makes Change Jul 06, 2020

Michael and Mark try to make some sense of the last few weeks, maybe months. They explore the difference between reacting and responding, and the fact that meaningful change will not occur unless it is made profitable.

# 123 — You Are The Pilot Jun 28, 2020

Jamie is a psychiatric nurse who is between contracts and using his time to travel, fly parachutes, speed wings and wing suits, take in the occasional MTB ride, do a little surfing and paddle boarding, and generally keeping a low profile while pursuing these forms of active meditation. He dropped by the NonProphet Event Center for a live conversation, and to meet in person, which we hadn't yet done after becoming acquainted via social media. The 3hr 40min conversation flowed over a variety of topics, one of them being a route I climbed with Randy Rackliff in 1988. At one point Jamie declared, "How terrifyingly cool," after I described the ice cliffs calving-off above and missing us because the pitch we were on was so steep. Regarding events surrounding the COVID-19 pandemic he said, "It's harder to become positive now than it is to become negative — and I'm choosing the hard path," and that is a solid, difficult choice to make and then live. Tune in, break the convo into chunks if you have to, but see it through because it's a good one.

# 122 — Julia and Ben Jun 23, 2020

Julia and Ben hail from the Carolinas and despite the uncertainty, flew and drove west to attend the May 30th Symposium. Having attended and contributed to the February Symposium — before COVID really kicked in, before protests and riots — they valued the conversation and exchange enough to return. Julia is a medical care professional and promised some rage regarding the current system and how it might be improved but what I heard was sober thought, predicated on the back of more than a decade of experience. Of course we detoured down some rabbit holes but overall, the insight present in this discussion was refreshing and maybe, slightly ... hopeful.

# 121 — Thurk Jun 15, 2020

Thurk joined us for Ep. 86 when Joe Holmes spoke truth through several glasses of wine, and ever since we have been waiting for him to join us solo. This conversation occurred prior to the May 30th Symposium, before protests and riots and free assembly in our space as well as in the streets. Thurk changed over that weekend — attending the protest-turned-riot early on Saturday, and the riot-gone-violent later that evening to capture images. The following week he photographed protests in Denver and his images from there and SLC are very compelling. See some at www.mthurk.com and @mthurk on IG. Because the protests began in earnest after this conversation we spoke nothing of it, instead focusing on creativity or its lack under lockdown, and Thurk pressured us to keep creating despite however we feel during this period because, "art IS essential."

# 120 — More Critics Than Creators Jun 07, 2020

Josh Goldstein came to the NonProphet Event Center for the first Symposium since the Coronavirus lockdown and ended up staying about a week as he found a camaraderie at Non-Prophet that he had been seeking out recently. Josh has a way of provoking thought through his words so we couldn't resist recording a podcast and discuss the ongoing events taking place in the country. You might know Josh from his days with Caveman Coffee running around acting and looking a bit like Tarzan or from his new TV Show on ESPN2 called Gymratts.

# 119 — Michael Carter Jun 01, 2020

Michael Carter has been visiting us and opening our eyes since 2017. We recorded a podcast with him when we were still rehearsing back then but the audio was unlistenable so we never posted it. Michael's visit for the Symposium this weekend coincided with some strange circumstances (pandemic and demonstrations/riots) but we finally got him into the studio for a conversation about ... the human condition and the widely differing conditions of human experience. Michael grew up on the south side of Chicago, lives and works in the city, he is educated, eloquent, open-minded and every conversation we have ever had with him has challenged us in a way few other have. This one was no different.

#118 — Over It May 27, 2020

We are over it. This is depressing. It is bullshit. No "leaders" will admit they may have been wrong, and focus solely on what they did right. All are desperately trying to avoid any legal recourse for having been wrong thus are enforcing measures that appeared to be correct when they were still ignorant, trying to demonstrate their power since their knowledge and awareness and qualifications are being questioned ... not openly or bluntly enough IMO but that will come. On the other hand, we recognize the "creeping malaise", that frustration wanes with time and becomes acceptance. We are being normalized to accept future infringements, engineered to enjoy being sodomized, and too few can forecast what is ahead of us, down the road, as the clock ticks ... if you aren't awake, I hope you enjoyed your nap because the alarm clock and bells and the call to "Stand To" are set to chime sooner than you think.

# 117 — Pandemic 17 aka Smart Car May 18, 2020

This is an episode about nothing. We were lost, maybe a little depressed by watching human nature play out when confronted with mortal risk — the overreaction, the holier-than-thou, the pandemic-for-thee-but-not-for-me attitude and behavior expressed by the most vocal and visible politicians, yeah, it's a drag. And it makes me want to shout with Zach, "There'll be no shelter here!" But eventually we began discussing smart cars and that made everyone happy. Still, there remains a "thin line between entertainment and war ..." which will it be for you?

# 116 — Trauma Tom May 13, 2020

Tom Asturias is a black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu under Pedro Sauer, Johnny Carlquist and James Gardner. He is also a physician's assistant who dropped in to discuss COVID-19 generally, its prevalence in Utah specifically, and to help us understand or clear up some of the information we have only been able to glean from the media, and not from anyone on the front line (excepting Keith Borg who talked with us on Ep. 115). The conversation is one of the more measured we have ever recorded, with Tom's careful and respectful use of language helping us to be more calm and precise than usual. This is a good one. Dig it.

# 115 — The First Rule Of COVID May 08, 2020

The first rule of COVID is You Can't NOT Talk About COVID. Keith Borg joins us to discuss his perspective as a medical researcher and emergency physician, father, and athlete. He travels between his home hospital in Charleston, SC and points west to work so he has been personally exposed to different local phenomenon as well as in discussion with colleagues in areas with greater population density so his view is broad and objective and more acute than ours. Tune in, it's good. No edits (for mouth pops or otherwise), this is as live as we will ever get ... three hours from the end of the recording to the upload.

# 114 — Have Or Have-Not May 01, 2020

SNOWFLAKE WARNING: This episode starts in the gutter with a discussion of drugging oneself to sleep and then being raped by the government but the tone quickly rises toward the topic of euthanasia, farm and ranch "depopulation", employment bias, i.e. essential vs. non-essential, and once again, Biden's many and varied moral transgressions, and the "practical utility" of science. Later, Michael discovers blueprints for a 1792 guillotine. For levity, Mark suggests lengthening the football field to 400m to make it an endurance sport, and then offers anecdotal "evidence" that cigarettes improve adaptation to high altitude. Whatever, if you're into the irreverent-yet-thoughtful and provocative think-for-yourself attitude that frequently comes out of the NonProphet project this episode is a fine example, and if you hate that, this episode is also a fine example.

# 113 — Politics and Greed Apr 30, 2020

From the complexity of vanilla as a flavor to comfort eating under lockdown to police officers returning to the original charter of being peace officers, this episode starts off snarky and goes downhill ... we spoke about fitness and dared describe an actual workout. But then we came to our senses and began talking about Biden's predilection for inappropriate familiarity with young women, the difference between racist and rapist, and finally settle on greed as a topic worth spending some time with. Trevor Thompson joins us for a pretty fun time.

# 112 — Pandemic Practical Discussion Apr 20, 2020

To balance out the comedy and sarcasm of episode 111 we decided to discuss some topics with which we have more experience, dare I say expertise? We cover nutrition, inflammation, stress, some training ideas, fear, risk and the decision-making around it ...and then the rabbit hole of the Truman Doctrine opened ... but this is NOT advice.

# 111 — Pandemic Mail Room Apr 20, 2020

The conversation begins with a pirated clip from Vic DiBitetto's YouTube channel during which he teaches the leaders a lesson and then WE go downhill or uphill from there. Mark recites a laborious reply to a critical email received from a former listener, while Michael dispenses his reply rather quickly. If this is of no interest, conversation about experts — academic and practical — among other observations begins about 20 minutes in. As fun, comical and sarcastic as this exercise was, it did fuel some thought and off-line discussion, which is never a bad thing.

# 110 — Life Will Kill You Apr 17, 2020

Sam joined us to talk about identity, being declared non-essential, and our poor relationship with death. In other words, life will kill you.

# 109 — Boomer Doomer Apr 15, 2020

We are horrible people. Don't listen to us. Don't play this podcast. You will have to wade through loads of deviant and treasonous, anti-authoritarian conversation to get to any useful, actionable information and ideas. Please move along. Unless you want to be provoked, or woken from the nap your so-called leaders have told you to take. If you're looking for a free home workout or lockdown fitness advice do a web search for Jillian or some other imposter. If you are seeking the means of your own independence ... we probably can't help with that either but we can point you in the direction of autonomy, of independent thinking, of taking control instead of ceding it. Maybe. Hopefully. Because the future you were counting on has been utterly, irrevocably changed. And your 1RM bench press is more irrelevant now than it ever was.

# 108 — Pandemic with Chief Seattle Apr 10, 2020

Nic Lazz joins us for another look at the current situation and how we are addressing it personally, locally. We begin with some apologies and clarification regarding episode 107, move on to the cocktail for this episode — a variant of the Black Manhattan — and then get into all things Corona, wealth redistribution, population control, and a few rabbit holes. We end the episode with Michael reciting a speech (or letter) attributed to Chief Seattle as quoted in Buckminster Fuller's book titled "Critical Path". As powerful and moving as these words are, they are fictional, embellishing Seattle's original words for effect as part of a movie script written in 1971 by Ted Perry. Many have quoted these words, including Al Gore, in his book, "Earth in the Balance" (1992).
This actually compels a future discussion about words, how we use them, how we are moved by them, and whether the real source matters as long as we recognize and acknowledge it. If a call to action is based on misattributed words and the outcome is positive for our species and our environment — the planet — where's the wrong?
To quote Barbara Mikkelson, "... the Chief Seattle Speech has something to teach us all: So if we sell you our land, love it as we have loved it. Care for it as we have cared for it. We may be brothers after all."
That Perry's eloquent speech turned Chief Seattle into a manufactured prophet matters little to us because, after all, we are NonProphet.

# 107 — Pandemic with Nic Lazz Apr 04, 2020

Nic Lazz dropped by after a couple of weeks of self-quarantine so we recorded a conversation that was attended by him, Kegan, Michael, Mark, TOKI and some other whiskey, the name of which has faded from memory. We figured we should have a bit of fun instead being all gloom and doom and colon self-care advice so we brought in the 80s action movie characters and let them speak their minds as well.

# 106 — The Bern Don't Run Mar 31, 2020

Two weeks into the quarantine, isolation, distancing, whatever ... Kegan, Michael and Mark get together to share ideas, air, maybe some spit, and to confront human nature and the individually-driven behavior that has not yet been modified by microbes or the National Guard. We discuss Universal (National) Basic Income, flash mobs as revolution, or at least political pressure, our currently restricted movement as governmental telegraphing of the future, and — as ever — ignorant yet powerful people fighting tooth and nail (as if they have any idea what that means) to keep the power they believe they will have in perpetuity.

# 105 — CamelBak Enema Mar 26, 2020

George Briones joins Kegan, Michael and Mark to talk about anything but the COVID-19 situation, although we also explored that a little bit. Mostly it is rabbit holes about banking, politicians, quarantined-fitness, drinking, astral planes, see 10, do 10, tag 10 and the logical conclusion for a psychonaut, and finally, near the end of the discussion, how to shape the radii of a hydration bladder hose to make insertion less uncomfortable. If you were looking for fitness advice, find it in the show notes.

# 104 — Pandemic and Politics Mar 22, 2020

Kegan rejoins us from isolation, which we all hope was long enough, and will address if we learn differently. Mark launched with the topic of "How to Enrich Yourself by Seeking Political Office" and things became rather impassioned from there. Some solutions were proposed and the scrubbing of current consciousness hypothesized as a possible benefit of the current, viral situation. We offered a few tips on toilet paper usage, which foods to buy and which to avoid, why you should spend resources wisely rather than counting on debt-forgiveness and governmental munificence. And we talked about how we will provide assistance micro-locally despite our relatively meager assets. Tune in. Turn on. Cause positive change.

# 103 — Pandemic and Earthquake Mar 18, 2020

We brought Kegan into the studio via FaceTime today so that, despite being in self-quarantine after some international air travel, we could record a podcast. This is the first ever "call-in" episode of the NonProphet podcast and while the audio isn't great, it isn't unlistenable either. We start the episode discussing the 5.7 magnitude earthquake that hit Salt Lake City this morning, which was followed by four dozen aftershocks, one as high as 4.6, contributing to the general uncertainty of these times. The conversation offers no solutions other than to take the social distancing and isolation seriously, do it voluntarily, do it now, educate yourself, and get ready for more than a 14-day vacation with Netflix. The peak is further down the road than you think.

# 102 — WeMove (2) Mar 16, 2020

Recorded before we changed the name of the podcast, this is Part Two of our conversation with Chris Baker and James Shaw from WeMove Magazine (and podcast) during which we discuss "stability as adaptability", "plant-based vs. planet-based" diets, and how far you might go if only you were both curious and committed. Part One of the conversation was posted as Ep. 91

# 101 — Brody Leven and Kelly Halpin Mar 09, 2020

Brody Leven is a professional adventure skier who prefers climbing up to skiing down. His ski and biking adventures have taken him all over the world, from Uganda to New Zealand, from Svalbard to Argentina, and all over the North American continent. Brody cares deeply for the terrain and environment where he practices his craft and spends half of his time working to protect public land and the environment. He addresses Congress on these subjects each year, attended the Paris Climate Conference (COP21) in 2015, and generously donates time to Protect Our Winters, among other organizations.
Kelly Halpin returns to the podcast, previously joining us for episode 79. She is an illustrator who contributed to the NonProphet Strength manual and an accomplished mountain athlete. In 2019 she completed the Wasatch Ultimate Ridge Link-up in 23hrs 44min (solo), set the FKT on the Teton Crest Trail in 9hrs 11min (with Fred Most), and later, also with Fred, pioneered the Teton Center Punch Traverse, which follows the hydrographic crest of the Teton Range, in 43hrs 29min.

# 100 — LIVE Event 2/20 Symposium Feb 28, 2020

During the first NonProphet Symposium of 2020 we recorded live podcast. The conversation was driven largely by audience questions centered around why we say Fitness Is Fucked, the difference between believing something and expressing it with action, Behavior Shaming vs. Body Shaming, disordered eating (of course), using fitness itself as a mirror rather than simply looking at one.

# 99 — Billy Innes, Burkey, Joe Holmes Feb 21, 2020

Billy Innes, Chris Burkeybyle aka Burkey, and Joe Holmes join us the day after the February 2020 symposium and the conversation starts with a bang, "When does the practice of sport become counter-productive? When does it go so far that fitness becomes injury?" We examine the concept of play being different than competition, and that it is the competitive aspect and the demands of being better than someone else which make one more susceptible to injury. The conversation also explores various uses of the mirror, and the accuracy (or not) of the reflections seen by different subjects. Around 30 minutes in Burkey asks, "What happens to a fist when you open your hand? A fist is not a thing it's an action ... but it's also a thing. (Then) Are we trying to be an action or are we trying to be a result?" Take the deep dive with us.

# 98 — Kegan Dillon, Welcome Home Feb 15, 2020

Kegan Dillon resumes his rightful position as a host of the NonProphet podcast. After a year-long stay in New England with family Kegan returned to Salt Lake City. Michael asked listeners what questions they would like to hear him answer. Some of these questions initiate interesting discussion.

# 97 — Magnus Ver Magnusson Feb 06, 2020

On this episode of the NonProphet Podcast Mark and Kegan sit down with four-time winner of the World's Strongest Man competition, Magnus Ver Magnusson, to discuss all things strength and power. When he speaks about it, Magnus' love for strength is almost infectious. The sheer joy he gets from the idea of a heavy deadlift or lifting natural stones over his head (that most people probably couldn't move from the ground) is visible and certainly comes through in the conversation. We were also joined by Heidi Campo who owns a strongman (woman) gym in Salt Lake City, UT. She trained with Magnus in Iceland after deciding to move there for six months to learn from and train with the best. Heidi introduced us to Magnus (via Josh Tyler who also joined us on this episode) and she will be back to sit in the hot seat on a future episode.

# 96 — Trevor Thompson: Risk, Commitment, Group Dynamics Jan 28, 2020

Trevor Thompson joins Mark to talk about risk, and the group dynamics involved with BASE jumping and similar activities. 
Eventually, the conversation devolves into a discussion about weight-loss and commitment.

# 95 — Veganism is Philosophical Belief Jan 22, 2020

In early-January a British court ruled that, "ethical veganism was a philosophical belief that should be protected against workplace discrimination," after the plaintiff argued he had been unfairly fired because of his beliefs. His employers maintain that he was dismissed “due to his misconduct and not to the belief he holds.” Michael, Kegan and Mark discuss possible implications of the court's decision, among other things.

# 94 — Corey Rich Jan 21, 2020

Corey Rich is a climber and photographer, a director, a gifted speaker and storyteller, which likely stems from being a teacher and educator at heart. He has shot some of the most iconic photographs in the field of climbing, many of these are the topic of his recent book titled, "Stories Behind the Images". He is part-owner of Novus Select, a production company with an enviable list of clients, and its feet firmly planted in the world of adventure. Prior to recording the podcast Mark and Corey reconnected at the Banff Mountain Film and Book Festival for the first time in 20 years or more — neither can recall the exact date of the last adventure — and seeing each other "all grown up" was profound enough to schedule a deeper conversation.

# 93 — Nic Lazz Dec 16, 2019

Nic Lazz is a bartender, hospitalitan, rock climber, tattoo aficionado, connoisseur of experience, and a world traveler who loves punk rock. He dropped by the NonProphet Event Center to visit, discuss, and share some spirits from small, craft distillers in Mexico and also Scotland. The wide-ranging conversation covers alcohol and the human relationship to it, food, hospitality, pornography, politics, 80s action stars becoming politicians vs. Michael's notion that a porn star as presidential candidate may well be a better choice. Some useful philosophical ideas come up in the conversation but it will require some wading and waiting to extract them.

# 92 — Rebecca "Bexx" Ferri Dec 06, 2019

Rebecca Ferri aka BEXX is an artist and adventurer who has called Canmore, Alberta home for almost a decade after moving, first, west (from Ontario) and then back east (from Squamish, BC). Out west she discovered the downhill mountain biking for which the Coast is well-known, which distracted her from climbing — but only for a while. Mark met her at the Banff Mountain Film and Book Festival where her exhibition titled "Strong Back, Soft Front" featured portraits of, "the strong and courageous women climbers in the Bow Valley". Check it out @strong_back.soft_front and her personal feed @this_is_bexx She is a badass.

# 91 — WeMove (1) Nov 25, 2019

WeMove Magazine’s Chris Baker and James Shaw join Mark and Michael to discuss the intersection of creativity, pain, and pleasure. Traveling the world to curate content for their magazine was the practical excuse for what their spirits desired—to both meet and learn from those that they respect, to share ideas with, and collaborate on the creation of something greater than themselves. This is Part One of two episodes we recorded with the guys.

# 90 — Changing Games, Diabetes, and Death Nov 21, 2019

Michael and Mark discuss the Game Changers "documentary" — as several others have recently — digging into contradictions, omissions, the lack of truth seeking in favor of pushing an agenda, etc. This is a trivial and boring discussion about human nature, greed, false-altruism, so-called "health food", Big Pharma and once again, they conclude that the most powerful influence an individual might have on climate change and the health and satisfaction of the world's population is ZPG.

# 89 — Profit, Prophets, Art, Porn, and Information Overload Nov 12, 2019

Michael and Mark discuss profit, value, and win-win trade relationships as well as the so-called prophets who inundate us with information that suffocates creativity and dissent. This opens the topic of politics, control, and eventually some learning and inspiration from an unlikely podcast. Along the way they wrestle the question of why people gather to hear stories told by folks who have gone to the edge, seen something — maybe too much — and returned to share their experience, as in, if you want to know, why not seek that edge yourself?

# 88 — Trevor Thompson Hunts a Moose Nov 03, 2019

What is it to source your own food? What does it take? What does it give you? In this episode Trevor, Michael, and Mark discuss Trevor’s recent trip to Canada where he claimed a very large moose by arrowhead.

# 87 — Bad Taste is so Good Oct 27, 2019

Two days after our most recent Symposium we sat down with Paul Becker and Kegan Dillon to review the events, address a listener request, and discuss the Friday night screening of "Pushing the Limits", a 1994 French extreme sports movie. We got this particular Symposium right by asking more questions than we provided answers and by creating an environment within which attendees were comfortable asking questions that were relevant to them individually. The level of honesty and intimacy that prevailed was as emotionally overwhelming as anything any of us had experienced. But it wasn't all heavy — plenty of laughter carried over from the gathering to the podcast — because who doesn't appreciate the idea of Kegan, aka The Son of Distance, directing the Endurance lessons? After all, he is Endurance Jesus.

# 86 — In Vino Veritas Oct 18, 2019

Mike Thurk and Mark returned from dinner to find Joe Holmes in the parking lot. He had been drinking wine on the flight down and reading some of Mark's older writing, which set him alight and he wanted to burn more and longer. We took him into the podcast studio, uncorked another bottle, and released the brakes.

# 85 — Scott Backes (2) Oct 07, 2019

Scott Backes — who joined us on Ep. 44, which was epic — returns to the studio for a brief conversation around the topic of age, experience, and the ultimate demonstration of free will.

# 84 — Be a Verb, Not a Noun Sep 30, 2019

Pauly was an astrophysicist before joining the military, within which he worked his way up to the top of the food chain. During his career he was injured several times and used a variety of non-standard means to manage his pain, return to better-than-before physical condition, and continue to operate. This episode tours a few rabbit holes, concluding this about eating to produce a state of ketosis, "We are not arbitrarily assigning importance to something, we're looking for physiological markers when we eat in a certain way," and, "I'm ketogenic, I can't eat pan-psychism." Along the way some inherent skepticism appears, "I can't sell you the outcome ... but I can sell you the product that I assure you will produce the outcome," because it wouldn't be the worst fitness podcast in the world if we didn't mock some of the fitness industry's players.

# 83 — RPI 2019 Sep 19, 2019

Mark, Michael, Kegan and Trevor discuss their varied experiences at Rebecca's Private Idaho gravel bike event this year, which turned out quite different from 2018. Some came through better, others not so much.

# 82 — Eat Less For The Environment Sep 13, 2019

Mark and Michael discuss taxes, politics, formal education as daycare, nuking hurricanes, assault sugar, Muddy Buddies, spiritual emptiness and the measures some take to fill or occupy it, social media as a sandbox, engaging with people whose ideas are different than our own, Beta vs. VHS, and finally settle on current environmental issues. They are, of course, cynical but also glass half-full optimistic, until the discussion turns to diet where the guys propose eating less as a solution to reduce human impact on the environment and offer up a religious organization based on the idea: The Church of Immaculate Consumption. Tune in for a good laugh and some provocative conversation.

# 81 — West Taylor Sep 06, 2019

West and Kami Taylor train wild horses, they have spent the last 10-years dedicated to the human-horse relationship and science-based horsemanship. After taking a few of us from the Nonprophet group out on a horse experience, they join Mark, Michael, and Josh Tyler in the Dissect studio to talk about what it means to be wild but teachable.

# 80 — Start The World Aug 29, 2019

Jack Donovan authored several books on the topic of masculinity, The Way of Men, Becoming a Barbarian, and A Sky Without Eagles. While he speaks and writes eloquently, he also values physical capacity and appearance, and conducts rituals consistent with Germanic Paganism on a plot of land he purchased to create a sacred space. He has been described in the media as a threat to liberal agenda and progressive ideology because he contradicts what is to be an openly gay male living in America, and for associations with the AltRight, and other far right organizations. Jack is not everyone’s cup of tea, but he is a thinker and a doer. He and Josh Tyler join us in the studio for a wide-ranging conversation about rites pf passage, making one’s point through action, the value of asking more and better questions, and how most who have some power mismanage it. Jack has a quiet demeanor but his philosophy gets summed up nicely when he declares, “Rather than complaining about everything that’s wrong with the world, kind of the theme has been, why don’t you start what you want to the best of your ability?”

# 79 — Kelly Halpin Aug 20, 2019

Kelly Halpin grew up in Jackson, Wyoming and graduated from the Art Center College of Design with a BFA in film. Her day job is that of an illustrator although in our circles she is better known as a mountain athlete, having recently completed the Wasatch Ultimate Ridge Link-up in 23hrs 44min, bettering her 2018 effort of 30 hours. Last December she ran from Shorty Wells in Death Valley (elevation -262') to the top of Telescope Peak (elevation 11,043') in 13hrs 27min. She has adventured on foot, a snowboard, and wearing rock climbing shoes all over the world. Being that NonProphet exists at the intersection of art and physical effort, it made sense that we would meet and have a conversation. Tune in — you will dig it.

# 78 — Frustration Aug 15, 2019

Michael and Mark start by discussing the RAZE Anthology and how it has been means of addressing frustration but turn a bit dark to focus on the topic of frustration itself. There are no hacks. Observe it. Try to understand it because in understanding and acceptance (of the condition not the cause) is the way ahead.

# 77 — Bolivian Adventure Aug 08, 2019

Mark relates a story to Ben Staley and Trevor Thompson about a trip to Bolivia in 1996. Of course, there is climbing talk but the more interesting aspects of the journey had little to do with that — especially reviewed 23 years later. The trip started with some thievery and a high altitude night marathon, and concluded with a city-wide party in La Paz, psychedelics, meeting a local metal band, poverty and celebration, a fashion show at the hotel featuring Alpacas, fabric made from their wool, runway models and a too-quick return to North America. A companion article and gallery are posted on the NonProphet website.

# 76 — Payson McElveen Jul 28, 2019

“If you don’t feel it … can it work?” Professional mountain bike racer and host of The Adventure Stache podcast Payson McElveen dropped by to talk a little bit about cycling, his White Rim FKT, e-bikes, and a lot about performance, health, diet, the promise of hype-driven exercise tools, driving fast, and the occasional rabbit hole.

# 75 — DNF Jul 19, 2019

Michael and Mark discuss the difference between DNS and DNF and how a planned DNF might figure into a long-term training cycle. Mark's concept of "Integrate Instead of Insulate" comes up and not simply in reference to the outside environment. Finally, the guys talk about the relationship between a lack of fitness and the lack of desire, and gain about how increased capability creates increased opportunity and allows the imagination to run toward wilder, greater experiences.

# 74 — Ben Staley (2) Jul 05, 2019

In May 2019 Ben Staley drove through town on the way home from a job in Idaho. We talked about art, Dennis Hopper, the (un)importance of the tool, how fitness affects creativity, what we want to make in the future, and then bought disposable cameras from Target and drove to the desert.

# 73 — Body Positivity Jun 28, 2019

Ignorance goes a long way towards happiness. Kegan rejoins the team to discuss body positivity, unrealistic expectations, deprivation, disordered eating, the astute advice offered by registered dietitians, acceptance vs. settling for less, a six pack vs. a keg, nasal breathing as The Way, The Science of Weight Loss, among other things. Basically, they play "Spot the Industry Plant", and then mock and critique and judge and eventually work their way to back to a less cynical position wherein they offer some ideas that might help drain the cesspool, especially if the body positive movement leads to larger airplane seats.

# 72 — Gravel Camp and RAZE Jun 20, 2019

Mark talks about his visit to the Rusch Academy aka "Gravel Camp" put on by Rebecca Rusch. Michael covers his team's experience at the 65 Roses fitness competition. They discuss teammates vs liabilities, being the weakest guy in the strongest group, the release of RAZE 4 and an Anthology of all five issues of the Zine, as well as a couple of future products and projects. The least cynical episode yet.

# 71 — Burkey 2019 Jun 12, 2019

This conversation with Burkey as our guest lasts over 90 minutes but if you want the meat it comes between 12:59 and 13:04. It may be the most cynical podcast we have ever recorded. Here are some highlights:
1) "InstaGram Influencer Executions live at Trolley Square, Friday Night at 7."
2) "It wasn't chicken pox ... I think it was a sword."
4) "The truth about HIIT: more work, less rest ... because when you rest it means you're lazy, and nobody likes a sloth ... the influence of morality on our point of view about exercise makes us misuse the means ... rest is lazy and work is great, work is moral ... Moral Superiority Interval Training"
5) "Nothing Christian happens after dark."

# 70 — Kiel Reijnen Jun 03, 2019

Mark speaks with Joe Holmes and professional cyclist Kiel Reijnen. Kiel hails from the Pacific Northwest and races for the Trek-Segafredo World Tour Team. He was in Park City with teammates Richie Porte and Niklas Eg for an altitude training camp following The Tour of California. During the conversation Kiel talks about his journey to the World Tour, his eagerness for a first stab at The Dirty Kanza, not quite fitting the mold of your typical World Tour Professional and how riding with his daughter’s baby seat on the back of his bike has had a significant impact on how much room motor vehicles give him when passing as compared to other options.

# 69 — Everest, CrossFit, Etc. May 27, 2019

Mark praises Greg Glassman for "deplatforming" Facebook, Michael revisits the Authority issue, Mark mocks a (Southern) politician for his domestic violence arrest, and then tees off on the acquisition culture of so-called Everest climbers, "... you're climbing the rope, not climbing the mountain," and people exploiting and damning the environment in order to fulfill their recreational ambition.

# 68 — Authority and the Six-Legged Elephant May 21, 2019

Mark and Michael discuss authority, de-platforming, social programming that leads to opinion, the six-legged elephant, and the difference between remembering and knowing. This episode is short but not sweet.

# 67 — Hoby Darling May 09, 2019

Hoby Darling made us feel like under-achievers once we learned his background. His law degree is from Northwestern, his graduate degrees in business from UC Berkeley and Columbia, and he worked for Volcom and Nike before becoming CEO of Skullcandy. He has raced Ironman events, competed in CrossFit, and when he isn't trail running or skiing he calls being the Executive Director of Jaybird/Logitech his day job. This impressive resumé pales beside his mission, as a founding member of the Liminal Collective, "to advance the limitless potential of humans, preparing and supporting those who take pioneering steps in extreme, unexplored, and unknown spaces." During the podcast we spoke about the Logitech Cognitive Performer Summit, where Mark joined a panel to discuss the influence of the natural environment on creative output, which led to various rabbit holes we vigorously explored.

# 66 — REFUGE Live May 05, 2019

This is a live recording of the Q&A session that followed Mark’s presentation during the initial “soft” launch of REFUGE. Some questions had to be cut due to audio issues and the whole thing sounds like it was recorded in a large room but it IS listenable if the content matters to you. Ross and Michael join the conversation.

# 65 — Hydrate, Or Don't Apr 24, 2019

Hydration in the context of endurance sport is as misunderstood now as it has ever been. Too much information is broadcast on the back of a commercial ploy—trying to sell products—and we are still suffering from the bullshit pushed out in the early-70s that has resulted in hyponatremia issues more than it has improved performance. It ain't comedy; we are actually trying to help, for once.

# 64 — FitCon Apr 18, 2019

The FitCon episode aka "Don't Waste Your Time" because we already wasted ours for you. Trevor Thompson joins us to discuss changes in the structure of the CrossFit Games but after 45 minutes we lost the plot, started talking about FitCon, stopped recording, visited FitCon with our Bingo sheets, and then returned with nothing good to say. Enjoy.

# 63 — Straight Edge Apr 07, 2019

Shawn Kingrey is well-known to NonProphet listeners; extreme endurance athlete, punk rock warlord, and straight edge. Tim Matthews races bikes, listens to punk and hardcore, and also is and has been for years, straight edge, which is the topic of this episode. Straight Edge was born as a reaction to the excesses of punk culture: too many intoxicants, too much (pointless) violence, and too much promiscuity. The movement rapidly became political because its themes include vegetarianism or veganism, and animal rights, which can be highly politicized concepts. In the beginning, Straight Edge was seen as a means of rebellion by way of self-control: if you can control yourself you are more difficult to control. Later—speaking from personal experience—I saw the movement change and be used by its more self-righteous members as a means to control and influence others, especially non-participants, often resorting to violence to achieve that end. Happily, those members of the culture are few and mostly irrelevant to the sustainability of what is actually a very fine idea.

# 62 — Calories In, Logic Out Mar 27, 2019

We haven't addressed the topic of Nutrition for a while and it seems like the water is as muddy as ever. Michael and Mark discuss a couple of current trends, the phenomenon of "Triggering" and how people will reject the science of a subject if it doesn't jive with their own values or comfort—and expect you to do the same so they don't feel uncomfortable. They spoke about fasting, whether "calories in/ calories out" is real, the natural tendency to lie when self-reporting intake, and how people are mystified when what they think should work doesn't actually work because they are not thinking clearly. Know this: in the West where podcasts are consumed by a mostly white male, middle class audience, more people will die from eating too much than from eating too little and the real eating disorder is over-consumption rather than under-consumption and your fat doctor probably can't give you any advice that will help you, or that you can "hear".

# 61 — Eric Matthies Mar 21, 2019

Eric Matthies started his film career shooting music videos with the old H-Gun Labs crew, which led to work behind the scenes work in Hollywood, and eventually two sobering documentaries made with Tricia Todd, “Killing the Messenger” (2013), and “End of Truth” (2017), which focus on the topic of journalist safety and the potential consequences of bringing stories back from the harshest of front lines. In this conversation we speak about taking notes, notebooks, and analog metadata, about the difference between what you think you heard, and how what you think you heard made you feel, and the concept of National or Community Service. On a lighter note we discuss Eric's film of a conversation between Glen Friedman and Ian MacKaye ahead of Friedman publishing “My Rules”, as well as an old Nine Inch Nails video that involved the FBI, and finally, the blatant art of giving a fuck.

# 60 — Craig McGinlay Mar 10, 2019

Craig McGinlay is an actor that found his way to the industry while working as a strength and conditioning coach in Scotland. He sat down with Mark, Michael, and Ross to talk about physicality, reinventing yourself, and why making homemade explosives seems to be a common childhood pastime.

# 59 — Ben Treasure aka The Dog Episode Feb 26, 2019

A few weeks ago Ben Treasure joined Mark and Michael to talk about dogs for an hour. The conversation went a bit longer than that because ... dogs. Ben had recently lost one of his GSDs and after one short week he and his wife met a one year-old to assess whether or not he could join them, and Ada, their female GSD, to rebuild the pack. Mark had the good fortune to be present at that meeting so, with canine on the brain, we drank some beer while GSD Aksel napped in his crate, and remembered our dogs, former and current. Shortly after we recorded this Ada rolled her stomach and because Ben caught it quickly enough, had a successful surgery and is back home teaching the young male proper behavior. Dog is our copilot.

# 58 — Paul Becker (2) Feb 16, 2019

In one of the longest episodes to date, Paul Becker, aka “The Crimson Bashar” returns to talk about his journey into “movie land”. The guys fall into every rabbit hole, and Michael finally tires of talking.

# 57 — Trevor Thompson (1) Feb 02, 2019

Trevor Thompson is a self-described, former "undersea flashlight repair" guy. Take what you will from that, and knows his way around a parachute, both air and land-based exits, and covering distance with a squirrel suit. He is a photographer, artist, athlete, and — in my opinion — a Searcher. His commitment to achieving and maintaining competence in whatever craft he chooses to pursue is inspiring. We spoke much about risk during this episode, the connection between honesty and physicality, and how "nerfing" the world and ourselves will likely lead to the demise of our species. Tune in.

# 56 — Johnny Carlquist Jan 24, 2019

Johnny Carlquist is a 3rd Degree Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu under Pedro Sauer. He and James Gardner own and operate Unified Jiu Jitsu in Salt Lake City, where every class is taught by a black belt, and there are many at the academy. Johnny is also one of the Gym Jones OGs, where he and James began training with Mark in 2004. We cover some of that ground in this episode as well as discussing BJJ in general. Unfortunately, we were short on time so cut it at 1hr 40min when we were just getting into deep water and Johnny was, "just starting to have fun." There will be at least one follow-up episode because this conversation was a long time in the making and too damned short by half.

# 55 — Ian Seabrook Jan 17, 2019

Michael and Mark speak with Ian Seabrook about Mark's book titled REFUGE, the production of which Ian documented in real time for the Reality Bath film. Ian is an Underwater Director of Photography in the Motion Picture and Television Industry. He worked on "Man of Steel" and “Batman v Superman” with us, as well as “Cabin in the Woods", and the box office titan, “Deadpool 2”. He has invested 18 months in a documentary about Mark hence it was important to be here for the printing of REFUGE. The conversation covers a lot of ground, from most and least favorite film and directors, to commitment, investment, belief in Self, and what such belief or doubt or confidence can create.

# 54 — Adam Giles Jan 08, 2019

Adam Giles works in the field of technology marketing (and he’s damn good at it). He took a hiatus from that path to explore the world of personal coaching and fitness. What he discovered is rarely talked about, but should be for anyone interested in the field.

# 53 — Nate Pack Dec 27, 2018

The guys speak with Nate Pack about capacity and tolerance, about the engine and its gas tank, and get down in the weeds about numbers, which is no surprise as Nate holds a PhD in bioengineering and is a self-described “smart guy”. He also has a high degree of mastery in extensive effort. During the conversation they divulge the secret workout everyone has been asking for, and the dietary pairings used to amplify its effect. Finally—since this is an exercise and fitness podcast—they analyze the numbers in order to coronate the undisputed king of the Airdyne, and discuss how to plot the linear progression curves of power and time to expose truth.

# 52 — Kegan Dillon Drives East Dec 18, 2018

Kegan drove out from Reno or maybe it was Texas to spend a few days with us in February 2018, coincident with a seminar on Endurance taught by Joe Holmes. He was clearly searching for something, the next step, a new direction, and ... aren't we all? We got along well enough to extend a more formal, and permanent invitation. He fit right in with whatever it is we are doing, complementary viewpoint and experiences, we all taught and learned from each other. But as much as we like to predict outcomes we couldn't foresee that Kegan's search would steer him towards family and home, out east. If the most important part of anything is the beginning—which we all handled deftly—the second-most important part is the end, and how we finish something. During the slightly sad yet ultimately positive conversation we work our way through it.

# 51 — Paul Becker (1) Dec 11, 2018

Paul Becker is a Producer in VFX/3D, but he prefers the title “Crimson Bashar”. His list of credits in film is mind-blowing. He has watched from close proximity the effects that Mark and Michael’s training philosophy had on set, noting the especially strong transformations that occurred behind the scenes. From his position of “selling the unreal” he is the perfect person to comment on what he thought was possible with the human body. After years of curiosity, Paul finally took the plunge and attended their symposium, finding common language and a familiarity in the philosophy of effort.

# 50 — Bike Path, aka MFT in the Hot Seat Dec 02, 2018

Michael, Joe, and Kegan put Mark in the hot seat to discuss his relationship to the bike, how it became a surrogate for climbing, and chasing similarly (sometimes) transformative experiences using a different means. Twelve years ago rehab from shoulder reconstruction was Mark’s impetus to start training and racing. In 2018, having a total hip replacement and recovery from that triggered a new cycling renaissance. Mark talks about his introduction to mass start racing, how he learned that the amateur categories actually mean something, that he shouldn’t race his age group, and eventually, to read the field. Later they discuss the experiences Mark used to manipulate his mind into believing in a body affected by decades of mileage in the mountains, and how to keep the vessel viable enough to continue transporting the mind as the years progress.

# 49 — Desire and Inadequacy Nov 25, 2018

Mark, Michael, and Kegan talk about the influence that male bodies seen on the big screen has on the self-esteem of young men, or any males who can't help but compare themselves to what they see in a movie. This conversation was based on a BBC Radio interview Mark did on the topic that was cut short before he could broach the idea that, "it is important to feel inadequate as the launchpad to achievement." Instead guys compare their own physical condition to what they see on screen and when they feel inadequate suggest that something be done to keep them from being exposed to such negative feeling. The discussion covers the difference between Process and Consequence, between Doing and Having Done, and how it is imperative to know that we only see the tip of the iceberg. Typically, we observe the physical—the surface—but we should practice seeing deep enough to understand that, "those abs are decoration on the human spirit," and it is the spirit that is most important.

# 48 — Billy Innes (1) Nov 17, 2018

In this episode Mark, Michael and Kegan speak with former professional cyclist and current artist and U.S. Junior National Team Director Billy Innes. Originally from Brooklyn, Billy now calls Menlo Park “home” - that is when he is not living in Europe for a third of the year developing the next generation of American bike racers. During the podcast the guys discuss art, bikes and what can happen when you confuse baby wipes with bleach wipes during The Race Across America. Also joining the group is “returning guest” Joe Holmes who has discovered that Salt Lake City seems to possess a very strong tractor beam.

# 47 — Perspective Nov 16, 2018

Mark, Kegan, and Michael have a rambling discussion about entitlement, equality, participation trophies and their effect on personal development, how difficult it it to establish Point A and its distance from Point B when setting objectives and planning the means of their achievement. The episode is titled Perspective but they left the rails of that topic early one and never came back. There may be more jokes than lessons but the insight when it does turn up is potentially quite useful. And—spoiler alert—they do speak snarkily about mainstream sports, which is kind of fun.

# 46 — Shawn Kingrey and the Nightmare Tour Nov 05, 2018

Mark recorded this episode with Shawn Kingrey five hours after Shawn won “Death By” variant of the Nightmare Tour fondo/race, which traces the perimeter of Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, covering 225 miles and 22,000 feet of climbing in 14 hrs 39 min. The original, 177-mile county perimeter ride has been the standard for 25+ years, while the 225-mile version is relatively new and split into two stages of roughly 48 and 177 miles. The initial 48-mile appetizer starts at 1 a.m. and if one finishes fast enough there is time for a nap and breakfast before the main event kicks off at 6:15 a.m. The organizers strongly encourage racers to preview the appetizer in the daylight as there are, “some very strong, technical descents in between hills.” The event is held rain or shine. In 2016 very few entrants finished due to the 105-degree heat index. This year it rained hard for the entirety of the 48-mile opening stage but precipitation was light thereafter. The energy of the conversation is understandably subdued but offers a glimpse into the world of so-called ultra-endurance racing.

# 45 — Collaborate Zine Oct 28, 2018

Mark confesses to Ross, Nicole Morgenthau, and Joe Holmes about having left the rails to make a Zine unrelated to RAZE, which might be viewed as distraction. He insists it is an utterly necessary, and relevant contribution to the flow of energy emanating from NonProphet and the varied projects created within it, “Once it was in my head I had to design it and print it before I could move on to concentrate on other work.” The Zine is titled “Untitled” or maybe “Collaborate” but — as is true with everything — naming it allows it to be pigeonholed, and writes the shorthand that is too easy to misunderstand. It is a collaboration and — as is also true with everything — could not exist without relationships and commitments made by multiple individuals. And they talk about that too.

# 44 — Scott Backes (1) Oct 21, 2018

Mark and Michael speak to Scott Backes, with whom Mark climbed some difficult and beautiful routes back in the day, and who Mark describes as, “The wisest man I know.” Despite living in Minnesota, Scott discovered climbing in the ’70s, devoted himself to it and became one of the better, all-around climbers in the world although he would never say so. During the podcast the guys discuss how Scott started climbing, the various mentors who influenced his trajectory as a climber, the power that relationship has on vision, and “taking a knee” back in 1972. Despite their storied career together, much of the “origin” discussion was new to Mark. Scott talks about how he learned to train for climbing — also back in the day — and the impact that had on his climbing ability and confidence, how he started soloing on ice the first season he was exposed to frozen waterfalls, and touches on the difference between being stubborn and being a mystic when it comes to persistence in the mountains. The discussion is not limited to the physical, and the most important topics have to do with the internal, the psychology, self-awareness, and deep, deep self-knowledge both required and developed by climbing. Mark and Scott relate in detail an infamous rescue they undertook with Alex Lowe high on the West Rib of Denali in 1995. As with any episode, there are rabbit holes, passing by way of art and artistry, internet dating, the Tea Party, and of course, music. Mark does admit that, “because we were looking so far into the way back machine we did misidentify one character in the story about our 1989 visit to the Verdon Gorge in France. Scott described an encounter with a climber he remembered as being Shelly Presson, but it was actually Gia Phipps, which we did not remember until after we stopped recording.”

# 43 — George Briones Oct 11, 2018

George Briones a former Recon Marine and current Head of Human Performance for Soflete, a company started by current and former SOF personnel to better train the tactical athlete. Soflete was formed to fill a specific void in the fitness industry but has developed into a broadly applicable means of helping the everyday fitness enthusiast harness their potential in whatever endeavor(s) they wish to pursue. From Crossfit, to weightlifting, and now running ultras, George shares his experiences in fitness and how those experiences have helped to evolve his views on training over the years.

# 42 — Endurance For Strength For Endurance Sep 30, 2018

The night before we presented the Endurance For Strength For Endurance symposium at the NonProphet Event Center Michael, Kegan, and Mark hosted a live podcast event. We tossed around some topics beforehand with the group—about 30 people attended—before settling on “the influence of environment”. With that idea we started recording and let the conversation go wherever it needed, taking questions from the audience along the way. The podcast turned out well enough that we will offer more live events in the future.

# 41 — Heber Cannon Sep 21, 2018

Heber Cannon is a Director, Writer, and Cinematographer. To date, his four documentaries have captured the journey of what makes a CrossFit Games champion. Heber sat with Michael and Mark to discuss capturing physicality, PED use, and what elite athletes can teach us about capability.

# 40 — D. Randall Blythe Sep 14, 2018

In this episode Mark, Michael, and Kegan speak with D. Randall Blythe. He is best known as the vocalist for the American metal band, Lamb of God, and sometimes he “sings the fast stuff” for Bad Brains as well. He is an accomplished surfer, a talented (and hard-working) photographer, an ambassador for Leica, and has had gallery shows at Sacred Gallery in New York City, the National Gallery of the Cayman Islands, and the Leica Gallery in Boston. Randy’s book, Dark Days describes his arrest, imprisonment, trial and subsequent acquittal, after a fan died during a show in the Czech Republic. He is also the host of a weekly radio show broadcast on Gimme Radio named, “The Power Remains” where he explores a wide range of punk and hardcore music, usually accompanied by an interesting guest.

# 39 — Rebecca Rusch (1) Sep 11, 2018

Rebecca Rusch has a nickname: The Queen of Pain, which she earned … well, you’ll have to listen to learn that. Reba was a climber before she began adventure racing, which was before she started riding a mountain bike—something she did formally at 38 years of age. Quickly thereafter she won the Leadville 100 (and did so again three more times), then won the 24-hour solo, and 24-hour team mountain bike world championship title three times each, respectively. So much for the short stuff. Three years ago she rode the length of the Ho Chi Minh Trail (1200 miles) to the site where her father was shot down during the Vietnam War, a journey about which Red Bull made a documentary titled, “Blood Road”. She works locally and internationally as an advocate for cycling, organizes cycling camps, and a number of races the most notorious of which is Rebecca’s Private Idaho, and now the Queen’s Stage Race that includes the RPI event as the third stage. She appears tireless, motivated, and relentlessly optimistic—all characteristics we discussed during this episode.

# 38 — Tim Johnson and Payson McElveen Sep 07, 2018

In early-September Mark and Michael sat down with Red Bull team members Tim Johnson and Payson McElveen midway through the Queen’s Stage Race put on by Rebecca Rusch. Tim is a six-time national cyclocross champion who competed in numerous UCI world championships, won the Mount Washington Hill Climb, and later rode up the same peak—known for its vicious conditions—in winter. In 2018 he joined the USA Cycling Foundation as development director and works with various advocacy groups to promote and protect cycling. Payson started racing his bike in 2007 and quickly climbed through the national rankings. He has won the Marathon National Championship twice, finished with a bronze medal at the XC National Championship, placed third at the Leadville 100, won both the Iron Horse Classic and the Grand Traverse, and won the Mongolia Bike Challenge, a six-day stage race in … Mongolia. Both guys share a good sense of humor and willingness to suffer that delivers insight and a nice flow to the conversation. Their love for cycling, competition, and adventure bridge whatever gap between generations might exist had they not discovered and developed similar passion.

# 37 — Kegan is Becoming Endurance Jesus Sep 05, 2018

Mark, Michael and Kegan talk about fitness models, silly air bike challenges, supplemental oxygen, structuring training to overcome self-imposed limitations, and what happens when a 300-pound power lifter can starts doing endurance activities. Once again, despite the levity, there are some good training insights.

# 36 — Andy Stumpf, Cleared Hot Aug 21, 2018

Mark, Michael and Ross speak with Andy Stumpf, a former Navy SEAL who played on the varsity squad for most of his career. He is the host of the Cleared Hot podcast, a consultant, an active BASE jumper and wing suit pilot who also flies airplanes. Joining them is Chris Pipes, also a veteran and one of the most driven and creative thinkers Mark has ever encountered. Together they initiate the episode with a discussion of “thrill-seeking vs. thought-seeking”, the difference between activities that are assisted by gravity and those where gravity is an adversary, the influence of the camera on decision-making and execution, why we seek deep experiences and how they can transform us, how trivia is washed out by those experiences, risk, death, change, and—of course—a little bit of hunting.

# 35 — How to Think Aug 17, 2018

Michael and Mark discuss the Strength For Endurance For Strength seminar that will be offered at the NonProphet Event Center on September 15-16, 2018. Conceptually, this is a “How to Think” seminar specifically aimed at questioning biases, processes, and practice. From the millisecond contraction put into a successful Snatch to a 63-hour non-stop push, the energy, psychology, pacing, and output must be considered, planned, and understood. The broad experience and perspective of the presenters for this event makes it very unique, indeed.

# 34 — Diet Conversation (Not Serious) Aug 16, 2018

Mark, Michael, Erin and Kegan attempt to take the topic of diet seriously but realize that the knowledge, the misconceptions, the promises, and the snake oil that are prevalent keep them from actually doing so. They examine the difference between “off the couch” and “off the desk”, hypothesize different diet/exercise/sleep/stress hierarchies, how the body is able to adapt to consistent caloric deficit, the importance of dietary individualization, and the future of “scratch and sniff” interactive TV.

# 33 — Kristen Ulmer Aug 09, 2018

Mark and Michael speak with Kristen Ulmer. For more than a decade she was considered the best female extreme skier in the world who also survived her participation in paragliding, ice and rock climbing, kiteboarding, and adventure mountain biking—she rode across India in 1991. After retiring from — or at least dialing back her commitment to — extreme sport she spent 15 years studying Zen, teaching the mindset of optimal sports performance, flow states, embracing change, and emotional intelligence, often using skiing as the means. She is the author of “The Art of Fear: Why Conquering Fear Won’t Work and What to Do Instead” and still pushing at the edge of her own potential.

# 32 — Training Camp 2018 Aug 04, 2018

After a so-called training camp in June where Joe Holmes and Shawn Kingrey tried to help Mark get back into shape they join Michael and Ross to discuss over-reaching, the allure of “The Canyon”, riding with Pro Tour competitors, and generally about how capability affects the opportunities and the people one has access to, and how the map expands coincident with increasing physical and mental capacity. Tangents occur, of course, generally in the direction of hardcore music and live shows. Late in the episode Mark expresses his opinion about E-bikes.

# 31 — Lying Doesn't Lead to Learning Jul 28, 2018

After too many serious episodes Mark, Michael, Kegan, and Ross take a stab at free will, waking up at dawn, obesity, the perception—and misconception—of positive body image, privilege vs. oppression, eating from the center of the grocery store, how lying doesn’t necessarily lead to learning, and that time when Mark mistook someone for Robert “Bob” Paulson. Enjoy.

# 30 — Burkey (2) Jul 19, 2018

Chris Burkeybyle recently traveled from Detroit, Michigan where he owns and operates a few businesses, including the gym: Station 515. Mark and Michael have a long history with Burkey, which allowed them the opportunity to explore the details of owning a business, the downsides to overthinking, and what nihilism really means.

# 29 — Burkey (1) Jul 13, 2018

Chris Burkeybyle recently traveled from Detroit, Michigan where he owns and operates a few businesses, including the gym: Station 515. Mark and Michael have a long history with Burkey, which allowed them the opportunity to explore the details of owning a business, the downsides to overthinking, and what nihilism really means.

# 28 — Alex Hutchinson Jul 09, 2018

Alex Hutchinson is a Canadian author and journalist who started out in physics—he earned a Ph.D. from the University of Cambridge, ran middle-distances for the Canadian national team, and in 2011 penned the wonderfully useful book, “Which Comes First, Cardio or Weights?” In the second podcast recorded outside of the Dissect studio Mark sat down with Alex after they attended a seminar exploring the Role of Collective Effects in Individual and Team Performance to discuss the concept of “cognitive drafting”, fat adaptation, hydration, the glamorous lifestyle of a journalist, long treks, long climbs, and his most recent book titled, “Endure: Mind, Body, and the Curiously Elastic Limits of Human Performance.”

# 27 — Boone Speed Jul 01, 2018

Mark and Michael speak with Boone Speed about his introduction to sport climbing, basically inventing it in the vacuum of the Wasatch without much exposure to early, outside developments, and that some of the hardest routes in the country developed out of that vacuum. They discuss the influence of graphic design on Boone’s photography, the gulf between commercial work and personal work, artistic collaboration, reductionist philosophy, sites of power and their influence on athletic performance, and the fact that climbing is the only activity that’s happening both on the summit of Everest and in downtown NYC. Boone shares his passion for being on the road, surfing, and how sharks rarely attack absent a prior, specific disruptive event, and how losing every (material) thing might simply mean that you don’t have any shit to worry about anymore.

# 26 — Steven Kotler and Kristen Ulmer Jun 26, 2018

“Steven Kotler is a New York Times bestselling author, an award-winning journalist and the co-founder and director of research of the Flow Genome Project.” He sits down with Mark, Michael, and Kristen Ulmer to discuss drugs, flow states, and the ridiculous nature of coffee enemas.

# 25 — Jeremy Jones and Josh Vert Jun 21, 2018

Michael and Mark are joined by Jeremy Jones and Josh Vert to talk about Style, snowboarding, and the influence of surf and skate on snowboard culture. Jeremy recounts where and when he saw an Ollie for the first time and how that incident changed the direction of his life forever, and by extension, the course snowboarding in general. His eloquent description of style and attitude, lifestyle and function, and his advice to, “Customize Everything,” is brilliant. Josh came to snowboarding in the 80s with a style heavily influenced by the Sacramento skateboarding scene. He began competing in Northern California where his personal style and ability were noticed and led to a professional career that was unfortunately cut short by injury. Finally, Twight gets slightly nostalgic for Chamonix in the 80s, the culture of extreme snowboard descents and, of course, the monoski.

# 24 — Andy Dorais and Brian Harder Jun 16, 2018

Michael and Mark speak with Andy Dorais, an E.R. physician who has represented the U.S. in the Ski Mountaineering World Championships, holds the fastest known time on the White Rim Trail near Moab, and once traversed the summits of the SLC skyline: 65 miles and 30,000′ of elevation gain in a single push. Joining them is Brian Harder a physician assistant and endurance athlete who appeared on episode 4 to cover the topic of recovery from injury—both blew their ACLs last winter—and during the last hour of the podcast to discuss hip replacement and the aging athlete with Mark.

# 23 — Mistakes Jun 08, 2018

Mistake—noun
an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.
a misunderstanding or misconception.

# 22 — Margaux Alvarez Jun 07, 2018

Margaux Alvarez is a 6-time CrossFit Games competitor and CrossFit level 1 seminar staff. Margaux and her partner/coach, Alex Cardenas sit down to discuss the fine balance required to excel at the highest level of her sport, what the harvest of running/owning a vineyard really is, and predict Margaux’s win of the South Regional on her way to the 2018 CrossFit Games

# 21 — Ben Staley (1) Jun 06, 2018

Ben Staley earns a living by making documentaries. He feeds his soul by shooting still pictures. The trajectory of his life took him from rural Alaska—with no electricity or running water—to the pressure cooker of Los Angeles. He came to SLC to work but added a day to discuss collaborating with Michael and Mark on RAZE 3, record a podcast, shoot some pictures and go for a hike. Just like the old days around the lantern, a lot of stories were told.

# 20 — Brian Enos (1) Jun 05, 2018

In the first mobile recording of the Dissect podcast, Mark sits down with friend and mentor, Brian Enos, to talk about shooting, Zen, temperament, road tripping, psychedelics and thinking about how to think. Brian is the author of “Practical Shooting — Beyond Fundamentals”. It is considered one of the best books on the subject, and certainly the deepest. During his career, he won multiple Area and National titles and despite this success—or maybe because of it—one day he quit cold turkey, which also comes up during the conversation.

# 19 — Chris Worden May 28, 2018

Chris Worden is a photo journalist, motorcycle enthusiast, and student of physical fitness. He sat down with Michael and Mark to talk about their auspicious friendship, the importance of being a “thinking man”, and they answer what would happen if you found yourself with a camera in the middle of a riot.

# 18 — Josh Vandenbrink May 18, 2018

Josh Vandenbrink is the owner, operator, and artist at Iron Mountain Designs, where he has built a company from the ground up. He sat down with Mark, Michael, and Kegan to talk about his time as a PJ, patriotism, and the topic of freedom.

# 17 — Jeremy Jones May 08, 2018

Jeremy Jones is one of the most recognizable names in professional snowboarding. Mark, Michael, and Paul sit down with him to discuss his 20-year influence on a marginal sport, dysfunctional fitness, why fixing imbalances can kill performance, and how breaking and entering and breaking bones led to breaking psychological barriers.

# 16 — Nicole Morgenthau (1) May 04, 2018

Mark and Michael speak with photographer and jeweler Nicole Morgenthau about road trips, grimy hotels, car camping, living in the dirt, the Wild West, moving from film to digital, drop-down menus, dogs, climbing, and the ever-important quest for authentic experience.

# 15 — Feedback May 03, 2018

Mark, Michael and Paul sit down to discuss feedback; the positive, the negative, purposeful cheerleading, pain-compliance, silence, and the ear-piercing feedback pioneered by Wayne Kramer.

# 14 — Matthew Weatherly-White Apr 25, 2018

In the longest conversation they have recorded so far Michael and Mark sit down with Matthew Weatherly-White to discuss recovery, athletic longevity, endurance, desiccants, exercising for an audience, intelligent self-awareness, transubstantiation, personal reinvention, the evolution of capitalism, impact investing, the discipline to do less than you think you have to, and they make an attempt to apply behavioral economics to fitness.

# 13 — Greg Walsh Apr 17, 2018

Greg Walsh insists that he is, “0% fun”. He is confrontational, isolationist, shaped by hardcore music, BMX, and the early days of Crossfit. Greg has carved his own path through the fitness and philosophical wilderness. He recognizes that a lack of critical thinking is responsible for most of the lazy/awful outcomes we witness around us daily and is rather overwrought about it. In his Rochester, NY gym and social media broadcast, Greg strives to change current individual and global conditions while remaining optimistically discontent.

# 12 — Gurus Apr 11, 2018

Mark, Michael and Kegan Dillon tackle the subject of fitness gurus, jargon, nose breathing, how to set up tests to confirm the biased appreciation of one’s own fitness, endurance training, grammar, Paleo, and that—even if the earth is flat—the sun still rises.

# 11 — Vance Jacobs Apr 02, 2018

Mark and Michael sit down with coach, trainer and athlete Kegan Dillon to speak with photographer Vance Jacobs whose work has taken him to over 40 countries, and whose physical capabilities have allowed him to participate in many of the stories he shoots, from a 14-day survival school to hiking 100 miles of the U.S. border with Mexico, to shooting behind the scenes coverage of Channel 4’s (UK) series SAS: Who Dares Wins.

# 10 — Motivation Mar 27, 2018

Mark, Michael, Paul and Ross discuss the positive aspects of negative thinking, their contempt for motivational posters and postings (on social media), the true meaning of the term “Die Trying”, and the difference between real family and #family.

# 9 — Shawn Kingrey on Endurance Cycling Mar 22, 2018

Michael and Mark speak with Shawn Kingrey (introduced in Episode 8) about the psychological demands of endurance bike racing. Specifically, he talks about the Four Horsemen, which he won in 2014 in 18hrs 21min, the 2015 Hoodoo 500 stage race which he won 30hrs 2min, and the Tour de Mont Blanc.

# 8 — Value Mar 17, 2018

Mark, Michael, Paul and Shawn Kingrey discuss Value: what they value and what has value, and how perspective changes it. Michael defends his title as the King of Tangents.

# 7 — Wasting Time on Social Media Mar 05, 2018

The guys discuss the place of social media in society, the lack of real conversation and filters …

# 6 — Metrics Feb 26, 2018

As ridiculous as it sounds, in this episode Michael and Mark discuss what to count, how to count it and when to pay attention …

# 5 — Transformation Feb 17, 2018

Mark, Michael and Ross discuss (physical) transformation and the preconceived notions that some have about the process.

# 4 — Brian Harder (1) Feb 08, 2018

Mark, Michael, Paul and Brian Harder talk about alpine climbing, bike racing, ski mountaineering racing, a ketogenic diet vs. high carb diet for endurance performance, and they get lost down a few rabbit holes along the way.