The MTI Podcast

#54: Gravel Racing, Training, and Ultra Running with MTI Athlete Jonathan Edwards Mar 18, 2025

In this episode, I sit down with Jonathan Edwards, a tech consultant and elite ultra marathon runner based in Sandy, Utah. We discuss his experience racing the Belgian Waffle Race in Scottsdale, Arizona—an intense 104-mile gravel race with nearly 7,900 feet of elevation gain. Jonathan shares insights into race strategy, gear selection, and overcoming technical challenges on the course.

Beyond cycling, Jonathan talks about his transition back to ultra trail running, his upcoming races—including UTMB and Speedgoat 50K—and his training philosophy for endurance performance. He breaks down his nutrition and hydration strategies, his approach to balancing trail running and cycling, and the importance of lactate threshold testing and zone-based training.

If you're interested in gravel racing, ultra running, or optimizing endurance training, this episode is packed with insights and expert takeaways.

Topics Covered:

Belgian Waffle Race Recap: Course conditions, challenges, and performance breakdown
Bike and Gear Selection: Choosing the right setup for gravel racing
Tire Strategy: How tire choice impacts speed and traction
Power and Race Pacing: Managing effort across a long race
Fueling for Endurance: Jonathan’s approach to carbs, hydration, and in-race nutrition
Transitioning to Ultra Running: Upcoming race plans and training block
UTMB Preparation: Key strategies for tackling 100+ mile mountain races
Lactate Threshold and Zone-Based Training: How Jonathan is optimizing his endurance

Guest Bio:

Jonathan Edwards is an ultra marathon runner, endurance athlete, and tech consultant based in Sandy, Utah. A former road marathoner (2:44 PR), he has transitioned into ultra trail running, completing races at 50K, 50-mile, 100K, and 100-mile distances—with multiple top 10 finishes and a race win. He also incorporates cycling and strength training into his routine for a well-rounded endurance approach. Jonathan is currently training for UTMB, one of the most prestigious ultra marathons in the world.

Episode Highlights:

[00:00:00] The Belgian Waffle Race Overview: Course details, elevation, and challenges
[00:11:13] Race Strategy and Gear Selection: Tires, bike setup, and power pacing
[00:22:34] Nutrition and Hydration Strategies: Managing fuel intake for an 8+ hour effort
[00:26:08] Transitioning to Trail Running and Future Goals: UTMB training and lactate threshold testing

Resources & Links:

Follow Jonathan Edwards on Instagram: @Jedsoutside

If you enjoyed this episode, leave a review and subscribe for more expert insights on endurance training and performance!

#53: Strength, Endurance, and Performance: Coaching Insights from Chris Judy Mar 17, 2025

In this episode, I sit down with Chris Judy, an elite strength and endurance coach with experience in rugby, obstacle course racing, and high-level endurance training. Chris shares his coaching journey, from building a strength program for the University of Utah Rugby Team to training world-class OCR athletes and personal training at high-level gyms like Equinox and Ultimate Performance.

We dive deep into balancing strength and endurance, developing resilient athletes, and building training programs that produce real-world results. Chris explains his approach to coaching, injury prevention, and performance tracking—including why grip strength separates winners in OCR, how to train for max power output in rugby, and the best endurance tests to track aerobic base.

If you’re a coach, athlete, or someone looking to optimize your training, this episode is loaded with practical takeaways and expert insights.

Topics Covered:

Chris’s path into strength and endurance coaching
Training the University of Utah Rugby Team
Strength and conditioning for rugby players
How he built world-class OCR athletes
Why grip strength determines success in obstacle racing
Balancing strength and endurance in training
His favorite training protocols for endurance athletes
Plyometrics for injury prevention
Lessons from coaching at Equinox and Ultimate Performance
The most common mistakes trainers and coaches make

Guest Bio:

Chris Judy is a strength and endurance coach with deep experience in rugby, OCR, and endurance sports. He has trained University of Utah rugby players, Spartan World Championship winners, and worked at Equinox and Ultimate Performance, specializing in elite personal training and athlete development. His expertise spans strength, endurance, power development, and injury prevention, making him a highly respected coach in the performance training space.

Episode Highlights:

[00:02:15] How Chris started coaching and developed his training philosophy
[00:10:30] Building a rugby strength and conditioning program from scratch
[00:20:05] Strength benchmarks for rugby players and why durability matters
[00:28:50] Coaching an athlete to an OCR World Championship win
[00:35:45] Grip strength training for OCR and why it’s crucial
[00:45:10] Balancing endurance and strength training effectively
[00:52:30] Using plyometrics for injury prevention
[01:05:40] Lessons from Equinox and Ultimate Performance
[01:15:20] The most common training mistakes coaches make
[01:25:00] Lightning Round Q&A

Resources & Links:

Follow Chris Judy: @ChrisJudyTraining
Learn more about OCR and Rugby Strength Training: www.chrisjudyperformance.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and subscribe for more conversations with leaders in strength, conditioning, and mountain sports!

#52: From Pro Baseball to Tactical Fitness: Strength & Conditioning Insights with Michael Schofield Mar 14, 2025

In this episode, I sit down with Michael Schofield, a former MLB strength coach turned tactical performance specialist. Schofield spent over a decade in professional baseball, working with the Arizona Diamondbacks, Atlanta Braves, and New York Mets before transitioning to first responder fitness.

We dive into how training differs across pro baseball, police, and fire academies, the biggest programming mistakes coaches make, and why simple, effective training always wins. Schofield shares his approach to strength assessments, work capacity programming, and injury prevention for tactical athletes.

Whether you’re a coach, athlete, or first responder, this episode is packed with practical insights on building strength, durability, and mission-readiness.

Topics Covered:

Breaking into pro baseball strength and conditioning
The grind of coaching in the minor leagues
Differences between training MLB players and minor leaguers
Transitioning from pro sports to tactical athletes
Strength and conditioning for police and fire academies
The best fitness tests for first responders
Why simple training is the most effective
Work capacity training for tactical athletes
Strength programming: Wendler 5/3/1 for trap bar deadlift
Mistakes coaches make with tactical athletes

Guest Bio:

Michael Schofield is a former MLB strength coach and current Director of Public Safety Health and Performance for the City of Aurora, CO. He runs Performance Code, designing strength and conditioning programs for first responders. Previously, he worked as a Major League Assistant Performance Coach for the New York Mets, the Minor League Strength and Conditioning Coordinator for the Atlanta Braves, and a Minor League Strength Coach for the Arizona Diamondbacks. Schofield has experience developing athlete management systems, return-to-play protocols, and performance programming for both professional athletes and tactical professionals.

Episode Highlights:

[00:02:00] Breaking into pro baseball S&C and early struggles
[00:10:45] The reality of coaching in minor league baseball
[00:18:30] Strength training at the MLB level vs. minor leagues
[00:27:15] Why Schofield left pro sports for first responders
[00:35:10] The best fitness assessments for police and fire academies
[00:42:00] How he programs trap bar deadlifts using Wendler 5/3/1
[00:50:30] The biggest mistakes coaches make with tactical athletes
[00:58:15] His favorite work capacity protocols for tactical fitness
[01:06:20] Building fitness culture in first responder units

Resources & Links:

Follow Michael Schofield: [@performancecode](https://www.instagram.com/performancecode)
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and subscribe for more conversations with leaders in strength, conditioning, and mountain sports!

#51: Alpinist Training, V-SUM Climbing, and Outdoor Leadership with MTI Athlete Derrick Mar 11, 2025

Rob Shaul and MTI Athlete Derrick, an active duty Air Force Officer based in Santiago, Chile, discuss Derrick's recent experiences with fitness assessments, particularly the Alpinist fitness assessment and the V-SUM for rock climbing. They explore Derrick's training progress, the outdoor culture in Chile, and the impact of military service on outdoor activities. The discussion also touches on leadership lessons learned from outdoor experiences and Derrick's future aspirations in outdoor sports. Takeaways

Derrick recently took the Alpinist fitness assessment and found it challenging.
He has been focusing on endurance training to improve his aerobic base.
Derrick enjoys the new training program and has seen improvements in his performance.
The V-SUM has helped Derrick enhance his rock climbing skills significantly.
Outdoor culture in Chile is vibrant, with many opportunities for mountain sports.
Derrick has had mostly positive military assignments that allowed him to pursue outdoor activities.
He reflects on the importance of location in shaping outdoor experiences during his military career.
Leadership lessons from outdoor adventures, such as those from Shackleton, are valuable.
Derrick is considering future opportunities in outdoor sports after his military career.
He appreciates the balance between military service and personal passions.

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If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and subscribe for more conversations with leaders in strength, conditioning, and mountain sports!

#50: Strength, Skiing, and Coaching with Crystal Wright Mar 10, 2025

In this episode, I sit down with Crystal Wright, two-time Freeride World Tour Champion, founder of Wright Training, and strength coach for mountain athletes. From her early days ski racing with the U.S. Ski Team to dominating freeride competitions and building one of the top strength training programs for skiers, Crystal shares her journey, insights on training for performance, and the challenges of coaching in a male-dominated industry.
We dive into her transition from competitive skiing to running a gym, her philosophy on strength training for mountain athletes, and the evolution of freeride skiing. Plus, Crystal opens up about the struggles of balancing business, adventure, and family while continuing to push herself in the mountains.
Whether you’re an athlete, coach, or someone looking for motivation to push through adversity, this episode is packed with valuable insights on training, leadership, and resilience.
Topics Covered:

Growing up in Jackson, WY, and competing in ski racing before transitioning to freeride
The experience of competing at the highest levels and winning two Freeride World Tour titles
How injuries shaped her career and led to the founding of Wright Training
The biggest mistakes skiers make in training and how to fix them
How strength training enhances performance and prevents injuries in mountain athletes
The challenges of being a female strength coach in a male-dominated space
The evolution of freeride skiing and why fewer women are competing today
Risk management in ski mountaineering and lessons from close calls in the mountains
Balancing running a business, raising a family, and staying fit for the mountains

Guest Bio:
Crystal Wright is a former two-time Freeride World Tour Champion and founder of Wright Training, a strength and conditioning gym dedicated to training mountain athletes. A former U.S. Ski Team racer, she transitioned to freeride skiing and went on to win multiple big-mountain competitions. After suffering a career-altering injury, she turned her focus to coaching, helping outdoor athletes build strength, prevent injuries, and improve performance. She also leads ski mountaineering expeditions and is a passionate advocate for female athletes in freeride and strength training.
Episode Highlights:

[00:02:15] Crystal’s upbringing in Jackson and early ski racing career
[00:10:30] Transitioning from ski racing to freeride competition
[00:18:45] The injuries that changed her career path
[00:25:20] How she built Wright Training and the principles behind her programming
[00:32:50] The most underrated exercises for skiers and how to train for longevity
[00:41:10] The challenges of being a woman in strength training and freeride skiing
[00:49:30] Why ski mountaineering became her new passion and lessons from the mountains
[00:56:45] Balancing motherhood, business, and personal performance goals

Resources & Links:

Follow Crystal Wright on Instagram: [@wrighttraining](https://www.instagram.com/wrighttraining)
Learn more about Wright Training: [www.wrighttraining.com](https://www.wrighttraining.com)

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#49: (Revised) Long-Range Hunting: Ethics, Fair Chase, and the Future of the Sport Feb 28, 2025

Note: Ian's recording in this discussion was disrupted which led to some of his points being cut out of the original episode. We were able to recover the original audio in full.

Today's Guests:

Ian is a shooting instructor, hunter, and prior USMC Scout Sniper ( @ianminer2013 )
Adam is an MTI Athlete, defense industry program manager, hunter, and prior USMC Infantry Officer (@durango_simon)

This conversation delves into the ethics of long-range hunting, exploring the definition of fair chase, the challenges posed by terrain, and the impact of technology on hunting practices. The participants discuss the political implications of long-range hunting, how it affects public perception, and the personal ethics and motivations behind hunting. The dialogue emphasizes the need for the hunting community to maintain a positive image and navigate the complexities of modern hunting ethics. Rob, Adam, and Ian delve into the ethics of hunting technology, particularly long-range hunting, and its implications for wildlife and the hunting community. They discuss the balance between marksmanship and the essence of hunting, emphasizing the importance of fair chase and the ability of animals to detect hunters. The impact of social media on public perception of hunting is also explored, highlighting the potential for negative consequences from sensationalized kill shots. Additionally, the conversation touches on public safety concerns related to long-range hunting and the need for regulations to ensure ethical practices in the hunting community.

Takeaways

- Long range hunting raises ethical questions about fair chase.
- Terrain significantly influences hunting strategies and shot distances.
- Public perception of hunting can be negatively impacted by long range practices.
- Personal motivations for hunting vary widely among individuals.
- Technology in hunting can create a disparity in the hunter-animal dynamic.
- Maintaining the moral high ground is crucial for the hunting community.
- Group hunting can complicate ethical considerations in hunting.
- Effective management of hunting practices is essential for sustainability.
- The hunting community must address political challenges to preserve hunting rights.
- Ethics in hunting are subjective and can vary based on individual beliefs.
- The ethics of hunting technology are crucial for fair chase.
- Marksmanship should not overshadow the essence of hunting.
- Social media can negatively impact public perception of hunting.
- Public safety is a significant concern with long-range hunting.
- Hunting regulations need to evolve with changing technology.
- Hunters must be politically savvy to protect their rights.
- The ability of animals to detect hunters is essential for ethical hunting.
- Long-range hunting can diminish the intimate experience of hunting.
- There is a growing concern about the impact of sensationalized hunting content online.
- The hunting community must advocate for responsible practices.

#48: Leadership, Transition, and Lessons from Brigadier General Brian Reed Feb 26, 2025

In this episode, Rob sits down with Brian Reed, a retired U.S. Army Brigadier General whose 38-year career spanned deployments to Haiti, Guantanamo Bay, Iraq, and Afghanistan, as well as leadership roles at every level, culminating as Chief of Staff at West Point. Brian shares powerful insights on leadership, decision-making under pressure, and the complexities of modern military operations.

He reflects on the relationships built through shared hardships, the evolving nature of warfare, and the lasting impact of 9/11 on his career. Brian also delves into leadership challenges, including recent controversies in military command, diversity and inclusion policies, and the necessity of quiet professionalism among officers. With candor, he discusses personal regrets—especially regarding family sacrifices—and the lessons he’s learned about empathy, accountability, and lifelong growth.

Now leading learning and development for Google’s physical security operations, Brian offers a unique perspective on transitioning from military to civilian life, navigating identity shifts, and adapting to new professional challenges. He shares his evolving philosophy on happiness, resilience, and the pursuit of meaningful work.

Leadership is a Lifelong Journey – From struggling academically at West Point to teaching leadership, Brian Reed found his passion in developing others.
The Impact of 9/11 – The attacks reshaped his military career, leading to multiple deployments and a deeper understanding of modern warfare.
Soldier Camaraderie Matters – The strongest bonds come from shared hardships, and the quality of today’s young soldiers remains high.
The Complexity of War – Reed questions the long-term strategic objectives of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, emphasizing the need for adaptability.
Quiet Professionalism in Leadership – Effective military leadership isn’t always loud; evaluating officers requires recognizing those who lead with humility and skill.
The Transition to Civilian Life – Moving from military command to a corporate role at Google brought unexpected identity challenges but also invigorating new opportunities.
The Value of Empathy – Leadership evolves over time, and the ability to understand and connect with people is crucial in both military and civilian roles.
The Reality of Career Progression – Strategic job selection and performance rankings can create unhealthy competition among officers.
Lessons from Failure – Regrets about fatherhood and past leadership mistakes reinforce the importance of balance, humility, and continuous growth.
Living in the Moment – Amid societal concerns and career shifts, Reed emphasizes gratitude, resilience, and making the most of every stage of life.

Brian is a frequent contributor to MTI. Click here to see his collection of essays.

#47: Breaking down the 357 Strength Progression Feb 26, 2025

Rob breaks down the 357 strength progression, a training method that combines strength training with short work capacity efforts. He explains its origins, design, and practical applications, as well as the results of a study comparing it to other training methods. The discussion highlights the effectiveness of 357 in improving both strength and endurance, making it suitable for various athletes.

Check MTI's 357 Strength Training Plan

Takeaways

357 is a unique strength progression that combines strength training with work capacity.
The method was influenced by various coaching philosophies, including those from Louis Simmons and Greg Glassman.
The structure of 357 includes a 1RM lift, followed by a percentage-based lift, and a work capacity event.
The work capacity events are designed to enhance hormonal response and improve overall fitness.
A study showed that 357 matched strength gains of traditional methods while improving endurance.
The program is designed to be fun and engaging for athletes.
Weekly training can be structured to include total, lower, and upper body lifts.
The ideal cycle duration for strength emphasis is around four to five weeks.
357 is suitable for athletes looking to improve both strength and work capacity.
The program has remained consistent and effective over the years.

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#46: Power Focused Programming Mini Study Feb 25, 2025

This conversation delves into the complexities of training tactical power for athletes, particularly for tactical athletes. Rob discusses the challenges of defining tactical power, the importance of assessments, and the methodologies used in a recent study aimed at improving power development. The conversation highlights the results of the study, which showed significant improvements in various power assessments, and explores future directions for training tactical athletes effectively. Read the Full Mini Study: Click Here Takeaways

Tactical power is defined as the integrated capacity to explosively generate and apply force rapidly.
Assessments for tactical power include the standing power throw and other dynamic movements.
Training methodologies for power development can include strength assessments, speed training, and ballistic movements.
The study showed improvements in power assessments without specifically training to the tests.
Cluster training and contrast training can enhance power development.
Future research may focus on the relevance of aerobic base training for tactical athletes.
The importance of agility and plyometric training in tactical programming is emphasized.
Defining tactical power remains a challenge due to its multifaceted nature.
The study's results suggest that strength and power can be trained concurrently.
Creative programming can lead to significant improvements in athletic performance.

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#45: From Valdez to Antarctica: A Climber's Journey with Wyatt Jobe Feb 24, 2025

Wyatt Jobe shares his experiences living in Valdez, Alaska, a hub for ice climbing and mountaineering. He discusses the history of the climbing community, the accessibility of climbing routes, and the transition to backcountry skiing. Wyatt also reflects on his paramedic work in remote areas of Alaska and his time in Antarctica, highlighting unique experiences and the challenges of working in extreme environments. He concludes with insights from his military background and aspirations for the future.

In this conversation, Wyatt discusses the creative aspects of climbing, the problem-solving nature of the sport, and the essential tools and mental fortitude required for alpinism. He shares insights on the importance of experience, technique, and the evolution of gear in climbing and snowboarding. The dialogue also touches on the risks involved in climbing, the admiration for fellow climbers, and the personal journey of growth and learning in the sport. In this conversation, Wyatt Jobe shares his experiences and insights from his climbing adventures, discussing the challenges of trip planning, the importance of preparation, and the lessons learned from both successes and failures in the mountains. He reflects on his aspirations to climb in Alaska and Antarctica, the dynamics of expedition teams, and the gear he uses. Wyatt also recounts dangerous moments in his climbing career, including a near-miss with an avalanche and a rescue in New Zealand. Throughout the discussion, he emphasizes the value of learning from experiences and the importance of mental preparation in climbing.

Takeaways

Valdez has a rich history in ice climbing and mountaineering.
The community is small but attracts many professional climbers.
Access to climbing routes can be quick and easy in Keystone Canyon.
Backcountry skiing is popular, especially in Thompson Pass.
Wyatt enjoys multi-sport days combining climbing and skiing.
Paramedic work in remote Alaska presents unique challenges.
Experiences in Antarctica were both fascinating and humbling.
The beauty of Antarctica is unparalleled, especially during sunrise.
Wyatt wishes he had documented more of his Antarctic experiences.
His military background has shaped his approach to paramedic work. Creativity in climbing is about seeing routes differently.
Problem-solving is a key aspect of climbing.
Mental fortitude is as important as physical fitness.
Experience helps in developing climbing techniques.
The toolbox of an alpinist includes emotional control.
Guiding offers a unique perspective on climbing.
Admiration for peers can inspire personal growth.
Risk management is crucial in climbing decisions.
Quality gear can significantly impact climbing performance.
Continuous learning is essential for climbers. Climbing requires thorough preparation and understanding of logistics.
Alaska serves as an excellent training ground for high-altitude climbing.
Expedition dynamics can significantly impact the success of a trip.
Experiencing failure in climbing can lead to valuable lessons.
The thrill of climbing comes from being fully present in the moment.
Gear selection is crucial, and some items may not meet expectations.
Reattempting challenging climbs can be more rewarding than seeking new ones.
Avalanche risks are a serious concern in ice climbing.
Mental resilience is key to overcoming fear in climbing.
Reading and learning from others can enhance climbing skills and mindset.

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#44: In Season Programming for Endurance Athletes Feb 21, 2025

Rob dives into programming for In-Season Endurance Athletes and fields strength and conditioning questions from the MTI Athlete Team.

#43: Coaching Elite Mountain Bike & Rugby Athletes with Alex Ackerley Feb 19, 2025

In this episode of the podcast, we welcome Alex Ackerley, an accomplished strength and conditioning coach based in Squamish, BC, Canada. Alex shares his journey from high-performance rugby to coaching elite mountain athletes, including World-Cup level mountain bikers, Tour Divide gravel riders, and ultra-marathon runners. With 15 years of experience in the Vancouver fitness industry, Alex offers deep insights into training, programming, and the unique demands of mountain sports.
Topics Covered:

Rugby Background & Athletic Foundations: Alex’s experience playing high-level rugby and how it shaped his approach to strength and conditioning.
Training Mountain Bikers: Insights into the unique physical demands of downhill, enduro, and cross-country mountain biking.
Strength Programming: Alex’s go-to lifts for building power and resilience, including front squats, deadlifts, and power cleans.
Metabolic Conditioning: How Alex designs high-intensity circuits to build capacity for 3–5 minute downhill efforts.
Upper Body Training & Injury Prevention: The importance of upper body strength for downhill riders and strategies for building grip strength.
Plyometric Progressions: Building impact resilience through progressive plyometric training.
Screening and Assessments: Alex’s approach to movement screening and individualized programming.
Off-Season Training: The role of hypertrophy blocks and aerobic conditioning during the off-season.
Training Philosophy: Balancing strength and endurance while maintaining athlete engagement.
Lessons Learned: Alex shares personal and professional lessons from his experience training athletes and competing himself.

Lightning Round Questions:

Best Total Body Lift? Landmine Clean and Press (one-handed)
Best Lower Body Press? Front Squat
Best Lower Body Pull? Deadlift
Best Upper Body Press? Incline Dumbbell Bench Press
Best Upper Body Pull? Pronated Pull-Up (strict)
Favorite Grip Training? Carries and Hanging
Most Overrated Exercise? Box Jump
Most Underrated Exercise? Bench Press
Overrated Equipment? Kettlebells

Check out Alex's Gym: nxft.ca
Alex's Instagram: @coachackerley

#42: Does Mental Fitness Transfer to Other Life Challenges? Feb 16, 2025

Tactical, Mountain, or Gym Rat Athlete? Want to be a guest on the podcast? Email rob@mtntactical.com This group conversation delves into the themes of mental fitness, resilience, and the transferability of skills learned through physical challenges. The participants share their experiences in various fields, including law enforcement, military, and outdoor activities, discussing how these experiences shape their mental toughness and resilience. They explore the idea that while physical challenges can build confidence and perspective, the transferability of these skills to other life areas may vary. The discussion emphasizes the importance of mindset and the value of challenging oneself regularly to foster personal growth. Today's Guests:

Wyatt Joke - Wilderness Paramedic & Alpinist
Adam Aikens - USMC Infantry Officer, Backcountry Hunter, Outdoor & Defense Industry
Steve Swingle - Law Enforcement & Former Pro Baseball
Derrick - Air Force Officer & Mountain Athlete

Takeaways:

Mental fitness is specific to the type of physical stressor.
Experience in one physical mode does not guarantee success in another.
Resilience can be developed through various life experiences, not just physical challenges.
Physical challenges can enhance confidence and self-belief.
Mindset plays a crucial role in overcoming challenges.
Suffering can provide valuable perspective in life.
Regularly challenging oneself can lead to personal growth.
The transferability of skills varies between individuals and contexts.
Community and support can enhance the benefits of physical challenges.
Training mental fitness requires consistent effort and practice.

#41: From Road Marathons to Mountain Ultras: Jonathan Edwards' Journey Feb 13, 2025

Guest: MTI Athlete Jonathan Edwards (@jedsoutside)
Host: Rob Shaul
Episode Summary:
In this episode, Rob Shaul sits down with MTI Athlete Jonathan Edwards, an endurance athlete who transitioned from road marathons to ultra mountain running and backcountry bowhunting. Jonathan shares his late start in endurance sports, the lessons he learned from his first ultra race in the mountains, and how he balances running, strength training, and hunting. He also discusses his training philosophy, race preparation, and the mistakes that shaped his growth as an athlete.
Key Topics Covered:

Moving from Florida to Utah to pursue mountain sports and hunting
Transitioning from road marathons to high-elevation ultra running
The importance of strength training for endurance athletes
Training volume and structuring weekly mileage for ultra races
Lessons learned from his toughest races, including heat management and downhill running
Balancing hunting and ultra racing
His approach to fueling and hydration in long races
Gear selection for ultra running and backcountry hunting
His upcoming race at UTMB and how he's preparing for the biggest challenge of his career

Notable Quotes:

"I disrespected the mountains and the distance on my first mountain ultra—and I paid for it."
"The best runners aren’t always the fastest; they’re the ones who slow down the least."
"Backcountry hunting and ultra running both demand patience, endurance, and mental resilience."
"I don’t come cheap—I’d rather sponsor myself and pick my own gear."

Jonathan’s Favorite Gear:

Running Watch: Garmin Fenix 7
Running Vest: Salomon ADV Skin 12L
Shoes: Solomon S-Lab Genesis & Nike Agama
Strength Training Tool: Sandbag for loaded lunges
Headlamp: Fenix rechargeable headlamp
Hunting Pack: Stone Glacier Sky Talus 6900
Bow: Hoyt RX-9 Ultra

Upcoming Races and Hunts:

March 1, 2025: Belgian Waffle Ride AZ (103-mile gravel bike race)
August 2025: UTMB (Ultra-Trail du Mont-Blanc, 176 km)
September 2025: Idaho elk hunt
2026: Alaska/Yukon moose hunt

Connect with Jonathan:

Instagram: @jedsoutside

#40: Strength Coaching with David Hageman, Ph.D. Feb 12, 2025

Guest: David Hageman, Ph.D., Strength & Conditioning Coach, Tactical Athlete Specialist, and Assistant Chief at the Denver Fire Department
Host: Rob Shaul
Episode Summary:
Dr. David Hageman is a veteran strength and conditioning coach with experience as a gym owner, High School Strength & Conditioning Coach, and Tactical Strength Coach (military and fire/rescue). We dive deep into his experience training high school athletes, developing strength programs for football players, and adapting training for tactical professionals in the fire service. Included is nerdy talk about favorite exercises, set/rep schemes and other fascinating details for other scholar-meatheads.
Dr. Hageman shares his insights on:
✔️ The evolution of high school strength programs
✔️ Strength standards and periodization for football athletes
✔️ The balance between general strength training and sport-specific work
✔️ The unique challenges of firefighter fitness and operational readiness
✔️ Lessons learned from coaching both young athletes and tactical professionals
🔥 Lightning Round Topics:
• Best total body lift? (Power clean & push press)
• Most overrated exercise? (Handstand walks & circus tricks)
• Most underrated exercise? (Nordic hamstring curls & neck training)
• Strength coach influences? (Dan John, NSCA, and Mountain Tactical programming)
• What’s his dream job? (High school & tactical strength coaching)
Links & Resources:
📌 David Hageman’s Credentials & Background
📌 Fluid Periodization & Strength Programming Resources
📌 Operator Ugly & Tactical Fitness Assessments

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#39: Semi-Pro Baseball Glory Days and Tribal Law Enforcement on the U.S.-Mexico Border with Steve Swingle Feb 11, 2025

Semi-Pro Baseball Glory Days and Tribal Law Enforcement on the U.S.-Mexico Border with Steve Swingle
In this episode, we sit down with Steve Swingle, a seasoned tribal law enforcement officer with over six years of experience patrolling the U.S.-Mexico border as a tribal police officer. Swingle has worked closely with agencies like the U.S. Marshals, Border Patrol, and Homeland Security Investigations, tackling cartel activity, human trafficking, and violent crime.

Steve discusses encounters with cartel smugglers, reservation gang violence, tales from his days playing semi-pro baseball and being a bouncer, to the TBI-inducing rollover crash while responding to a high-risk call.
Episode Highlights:
• Tactics drug cartels and human smugglers deploy on the border.
• The distinction between smuggling and trafficking, and how some migrants become victims of exploitation en route.
• The complexities of policing sovereign land, working alongside federal agencies, and the unique challenges of tribal jurisdiction.
• The surprising presence of Bloods and Crips on tribal lands
• The most dangerous calls he’s responded to, including a confrontation with an armed suspect that nearly ended in gunfire.
• The details of his 2022 vehicle rollover accident and resulting tramatic brain injury
•Behind the scenes peak into the world of semi-pro baseball and bouncing at an "Operator" bar in Tuscon

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#38: Dave Pappas - Insights into Law Enforcement Feb 11, 2025

In this conversation, Dave Pappas shares his journey from growing up in Riverview, Michigan, to serving in the Army Reserves and becoming a police officer. He discusses the challenges and experiences of working in law enforcement, including the dynamics of patrol versus detective work, the impact of George Floyd on policing, and the importance of mental health resources for officers.

Dave reflects on the hardest calls he's responded to, the evolution of his perspective on policing, and the significance of community engagement. He also addresses the role of body cameras and the militarization of police, sharing insights from his deployment in Afghanistan and the lessons learned throughout his career.

Dave shares his experiences and insights as a law enforcement officer, discussing the complexities of navigating professional relationships, the challenges faced by police officers, and the importance of community support. He reflects on the love-hate relationship society has with law enforcement, the significance of fitness and mental health in the profession, and the evolving policies and equipment standards in police work. Pappas also emphasizes the need for support systems and coping mechanisms for stress, while sharing his aspirations for the future and advice for younger officers.

Takeaways

Dave Pappas grew up in Riverview, Michigan, and has a strong connection to his community.
He enlisted in the Army National Guard at 17, motivated by a desire to help during Hurricane Katrina.
Pappas has experience as both a patrol officer and a detective, emphasizing the importance of both roles.
He discusses the challenges of DUI stops and the complexities of dealing with impaired drivers.
The impact of George Floyd's death has led to significant changes in policing and community relations.
Mental health resources for officers are crucial in coping with the trauma of their work.
Pappas shares a harrowing experience involving a child in a DUI incident that deeply affected him.
He believes in the importance of community engagement and proactive policing.
Body cameras are seen as a positive development in law enforcement, enhancing accountability.
Pappas reflects on his deployment in Afghanistan and the lessons learned about responsibility and leadership. Navigating professional relationships is crucial in law enforcement.
Society has a complex relationship with law enforcement.
Community support plays a vital role in officer morale.
Fitness is essential for police officers to perform effectively.
Mental health support is necessary for law enforcement personnel.
SWAT teams require rigorous selection and training processes.
Policy changes often arise from national incidents.
The media influences public perception of law enforcement.
Coping mechanisms are important for managing stress in the job.
Continuous learning and adaptation are key in law enforcement.

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#37: Sam Schwartz – Pushing Limits in Skiing, Ultra-Running, and Business Feb 07, 2025

In this episode, MTI sits down with MTI Athlete Team member Sam Schwartz, a former professional big mountain skier turned ultra-endurance athlete and entrepreneur. Sam shares raw insights on navigating the high-risk world of freeskiing, why he walked away from competition at the height of his career, and how he’s redefining success through ski mountaineering, ultra-marathons, and business.
We get into the gritty details—the dumbest mistakes he’s made in the mountains, what almost killed him in Apocalypse Couloir, why most of his ski heroes are dead, and how he thinks about risk in both mountaineering and entrepreneurship. He also talks about social media regrets, the realities of ski sponsorships, and how he balances fast-and-light alpinism with actual safety.
Topics Covered:
✅ Growing up in Jackson Hole and getting into professional skiing
✅ The hard truths of ski sponsorships—why competition winners don’t get the best deals
✅ Why he walked away from freeskiing at 26 and never looked back
✅ How he shifted from jumping 100-foot cliffs to running 200-mile ultra races
✅ Ski mountaineering risk vs. reward—the best and worst calls he’s made
✅ Dumbest mistakes in the mountains and how he got away with them
✅ How to survive solo ski mountaineering (and when he actually gets scared)
✅ Entrepreneurship and sustainability—founding Avant Delivery
✅ Why he mentors a 22-year-old but never had a mentor himself
✅ Ultra-running pain caves and why he refuses to run some races twice
✅ Denali redemption—his plan to ski base-to-summit-to-base in a single push
Lightning Round Highlights:
⚡ Worst injury? Breaking his back mid-air during a double backflip
⚡ Most scared he’s ever been at work? Almost getting wiped out in Apocalypse Couloir
⚡ Biggest mountain mistake? Trusting his ego instead of his anchor-building skills
⚡ Worst job he could imagine? Investment banking tax calls
⚡ Dream job if he wasn’t doing this? Flying helicopters in Alaska
⚡ Best career advice he ever got? “Don’t whore yourself out for money.”
⚡ What he’d tell his 20-year-old self? “Get insanely good at one thing, and ignore everything else.”
Where to Follow Sam:
📸 Instagram: @skifreejh
🌍 Business: Avant Delivery

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🎧 Listen Now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts.

#36: Interview with Adam Aikens - MTI Athlete, USMC Veteran, and Backcountry Hunter Feb 06, 2025

In this conversation, Rob and Adam discuss Adam's journey from attending the Virginia Military Institute (VMI) to his military career and eventual transition into the defense industry. They explore themes of military heritage, academic choices, family influence, and the challenges of recruitment in the military. Adam shares insights about his experiences in the Marine Corps, his role in the defense industry, and his passion for hunting, particularly his memorable Dall sheep hunt in Alaska. The conversation highlights the importance of personal growth, family, and the unique experiences that shape one's career path.

Adam and Rob delve into the multifaceted world of hunting, outdoor adventures, and personal growth. They explore the evolution of hunting perspectives, the differences between archery and rifle hunting, and the importance of family in outdoor activities. Adam shares his experiences with fishing, the camaraderie of hunting clubs, and the advancements in optics and firearms. The discussion also touches on the balance between work and family life, leadership lessons from the military, and future hunting aspirations. Adam emphasizes the significance of fitness in outdoor activities and the potential for consulting in the hunting industry, all while reflecting on personal growth and the importance of community.

#35: Interview with MTI Athlete & Firefighter/Paramedic Chris Sanders Feb 03, 2025

In this conversation, Chris Sanders shares his journey from being a mechanic to becoming a firefighter and paramedic in Corpus Christi. He discusses the competitive nature of Texas high school sports, the challenges of EMS calls, and the importance of mental health support for first responders. Chris also delves into the realities of overdose cases, the role of SWAT medics, and the significance of continuous learning in the field. Throughout the discussion, he emphasizes the camaraderie within the fire department and the impact of their work on the community.
Chris shares his experiences as a tactical medic and paramedic, discussing the unique challenges and training involved in his role. He emphasizes the importance of fitness, camaraderie, and accountability within the fire department, as well as the significance of teaching and learning in paramedic training. The conversation also touches on the culture of cooking in the firehouse, balancing multiple responsibilities, and reflections on career aspirations and challenges faced on the job.

#34: Interview with S&C Coach & Hyrox Event Designer Mintra Tilly Jan 29, 2025

Mintra Tilly is a self-taught German Strength & Conditioning Coach, the creator of the Hyrox fitness sport, and founder of the Roxzone Original Gym. Her work history includes an internship at MTI, work with professional Hockey Team in Germany, and Director of Sport at Hyrox. Mintra discusses her coaching career, lack of proper credit for creating Hyrox, and her strength coaching philosophy.

#33: News from Arete Jan 22, 2025

In this episode, Rob Shaul discusses the significant changes in US policy under President Trump's administration, focusing on NATO's defense spending, military involvement in immigration, border security, and the recent dismissal of Coast Guard leadership. He also explores the implications of Trump's environmental and energy policies, the potential reduction of federal agencies, and the overall impact on tactical athletes and the military community.

#32: News from Arete Jan 16, 2025

In this podcast episode, Rob discusses various geopolitical issues, focusing on Russia's shadow fleet and hybrid warfare tactics, North Korea's involvement in the Ukraine conflict, and the implications of Trump's foreign policy on global stability. The conversation also touches on NATO's defense spending and the potential application of Reagan's strategies to current tensions with China.

The discussion transitions to environmental issues, specifically the management of wildfires, with contrarian views on logging practices. The conversation further explores the impact of obesity drugs on health and society, emphasizing their potential to change perceptions and treatment of obesity as a chronic disease.

Finally, Rob touches on advancements in strength training methodologies, particularly velocity-based training, and its implications for athletic performance

#31: Interview with Wildland Fire Hotshot Dan Dobyns Jan 13, 2025

This conversation delves into the operations, challenges, and culture of the Diamond Mountain Hotshot Crew, a wildland firefighting team. Dan Dobyns, the superintendent, discusses the crew's history, interagency operations, staffing challenges, recruitment efforts, and the importance of physical fitness and training. He emphasizes the significance of effective communication, leadership styles, and the tactical approaches used in firefighting. The discussion also highlights the rigorous physical standards set for crew members, particularly the demanding 'Hill' challenge, which serves as a test of fitness and determination.

Overall, the conversation provides valuable insights into the complexities of wildland firefighting and the dedication required to succeed in this field. In this conversation, Dan Dobyns shares insights into the culture, training, and challenges faced by wildland firefighters. He emphasizes the importance of leadership, fitness, and recovery, while also discussing the dangers of the job and the impact of technology on firefighting strategies. The conversation touches on personal struggles, misconceptions about the profession, and the need for pay reform to retain skilled firefighters. Ultimately, it highlights the camaraderie and shared experiences that define the wildland firefighting community.

#30: Global Headlines, Fitness Trends, and MTI’s Plans for 2025 Jan 09, 2025

Rob covers global headlines, including President-elect Trump’s renewed focus on Greenland, tensions over the Panama Canal, and cybersecurity threats from China. He also dives into fitness trends like ski biking and Knees Over Toes training, discusses the impact of processed foods on cravings, and highlights MTI’s latest initiatives, including a new gym in Missoula and an athlete ambassador program.

#29: Russian's Cutting Undersea Cables and Chinese Hacking US Government Networks, Year of the Drone, Military DEI Changes, Windbreakers and Midlayers, New Years Resolutions Jan 02, 2025

In this episode of the MTI podcast, Rob discusses various pressing topics, including recent disruptions in the Baltic Sea, cybersecurity threats from China, advancements in drone warfare, and the ongoing debate surrounding diversity and inclusion in the military. He also highlights Japan's increasing defense budget, the decline of traditional news sources, and shares insights on outdoor adventures and mental health. The episode concludes with a preview of upcoming podcast projects.

Mountain Tactical Institute Home

This Week's Arete

Takeaways

Disruption in the Baltic Sea raises geopolitical concerns.
Cybersecurity is a critical area where the U.S. must improve.
Drone warfare is evolving rapidly, especially in Ukraine.
Diversity and inclusion efforts in the military are contentious.
Japan's defense spending is on the rise due to regional threats.
Traditional news sources are struggling to maintain relevance.
Layering techniques are essential for outdoor activities.
New Year's resolutions can focus on realistic outdoor challenges.
Exercise and diet significantly impact mental health.
Upcoming podcast projects will explore strength coaching and personal experiences.

Sources

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and New Year's Reflections
02:50 Geopolitical Tensions and Undersea Cable Disruptions
07:39 Cybersecurity and Chinese Hacking Concerns
10:27 The Rise of Drone Warfare
15:09 Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in the Military
19:15 Japan's Defense Budget Increase and Regional Arms Race
22:29 The Decline of Traditional News Sources
26:11 Mountain Gear Recommendations
37:28 New Year's Resolutions and Outdoor Adventures
46:34 Mental Health and Exercise Insights
48:26 Future Podcast Projects and Closing Thoughts

#28: New Administration's Foreign Policy Impact on Tactical Athletes, Increase in LE Hirings and Salaries to Combat Urban Crime?, Why Hunters Hunt, and Discusssion on Programming for "Tactical Power" Dec 27, 2024