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    Business

    The Julia La Roche Show

    Julia La Roche brings her listeners in-depth conversations with some of the top CEOs, investors, founders, academics, and rising stars in business. Guests on “The Julia La Roche Show” have included Bill Ackman, Ray Dalio, Marc Benioff, Kyle Bass, Hugh Hendry, Nassim Taleb, Nouriel Roubini, David Friedberg, Anthony Scaramucci, Scott Galloway, Brent Johnson, Jim Rickards, Danielle DiMartino Booth, Carol Roth, Neil Howe, Jim Rogers, Jim Bianco, Josh Brown, and many more. Julia always makes the show about the guest, never the host. She speaks less and listens more. She always does her homework.

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    Latest Episodes:
    #073 Chris Whalen On First Republic Collapse And Why More Banks Will Fail May 02, 2023
    Show notes

    Banker and author Chris Whalen (@rcwhalen), chairman of Whalen Global Advisors, who is also the author of The Institutional Risk Analyst, joins Julia La Roche on episode 73 to discuss the failure of First Republic Bank, the Federal Reserve’s role in the spate of bank failures, and why we should expect more failures ahead.

    In this episode, Whalen outlines why thee will be a repricing across the banking industries as banks have to raise deposit rates to get closer to T-bills, but many banks can’t do that. As a result, he expects that the Fed will have to drop rates before the end of the year or risk more bank failures.


    0:00 Intro

    1:41 Welcoming Chris Whalen

    2:22 The false narrative around First Republic’s failure

    3:14 The Fed panicked and started excessive open market intervention in 2019

    4:09 Outliers in banking are the ones going down

    5:02 It’s just like the 1980s

    5:48 If banks don’t reprice, they’re not going to make it

    6:20 The Fed likely didn’t recognize this existential risk

    7:00 Fed buying MBS was a terrible mistake

    7:47 Monetary policy is implemented in the bond market

    8:11 Why was the Fed buying MBS? It’s dangerous.

    10:19 Not surprised by bank failures

    11:45 Most banks are insolvent

    12:45 Weaker banks will get picked on, but larger banks could go down

    13:36 Bank of the Ozarks successfully raised more deposits

    14:00 Powell will have to drop rates before end of the year or we’ll have more bank failures

    16:38 Not a failure of supervision

    17:24 Where is the blame placed?

    18:50 All banks are going to be vulnerable

    19:50 Net Interest Margin is going to get squeezed

    20:45 How many more bank failures can Powell and Yellen survive?

    22:41 Different from 2008?

    24:00 Impact or rate hikes

    25:11 Fed raised too far, too fast, and left the banks with big losses

    26:40 Commercial real estate risk

    29:33 Powell could lose control of the situation if he doesn’t talk to Congress and the public about the situation


    #072 Christopher Zook: A Recession Is Coming And It’s Going to Be Deeper and Longer Than People Think May 02, 2023
    Show notes

    Christopher Zook, founder and Chief Investment Officer of CAZ Investments, which oversees around $5 billion in assets under management, joins Julia La Roche on episode 72 for a wide-ranging macroeconomic discussion.

    In this episode, Zook shares that a recession is coming, and it’s “going to be deeper and probably longer than people think.” He adds that we’ll have a “manufactured recession,” where inflation is running so hot that the Federal Reserve has to raise rates fast to slow down inflation, forcing the economy into a recession. Moreover, he points out that markets believe the Fed will start cutting rates by the end of the year, something Zook does not expect to happen.

    In these types of environments, Zook is looking for opportunities in dislocated assets or persistent assets that perform well, even if his hypothesis is found to be true.

    Zook has over 30 years of experience investing in traditional and alternative asset classes. He was recently honored with the Texas Alternative Investments Association’s (TAIA) Lifetime Achievement Award in recognition of his contribution and sustained support of the industry in Texas. He regularly contributes to major media outlets, including CNBC, Fox Business, and Bloomberg. Before starting CAZ Investments in 2001, Zook served in senior leadership positions with Oppenheimer, Prudential Securities, Lehman Brothers, and Paine Webber.



    0:00 Intro

    2:12 Welcoming Christopher Zook to the show

    2:50 Beginnings in investing

    3:43 Trading commodities to pay for college

    4:40 Reading about traders

    5:55 Managing risk extremely carefully

    7:20 Starting own firm

    8:20 Managing money at age 22

    8:50 Set goal to start firm in 10 years

    9:50 Tony Robbins

    10:40 The bigger the way, the bigger the try

    14:00 Zook’s “why”

    16:20 CAZ Investments structure and focus

    18:36 Thematic approach

    20:30 Betting against subprime housing

    25:00 Macro outlook

    25:12 Meme stock bubble

    26:23 It takes longer than people think to reconcile dislocations

    27:07 We haven’t seen true dislocation yet

    27:40 Recession is coming and it will be deeper and longer than people think

    28:08 A manufactured recession

    29:00 I’ll be shocked if the Fed cuts rates this year

    30:06 More of a 2-3 year recession

    31:00 Disconnect between the Fed and the market

    33:20 Be greedy when others are fearful

    33:54 Stagflation

    34:34 Worst economic regime for financial assets

    38:13 Opportunities

    40:20 Themes right now

    41:09 Cord-cutting

    41:40 Opportunity in sports teams, media rights

    43:55 Themes that exist in real estate today

    45:40 Stress from higher rates will force refinancing

    46:45 Why we haven’t seen panic selling yet

    47:45 Every sector of real estate will be stressed

    50:40 U.S. Dollar outlook

    53:39 U.S. debt levels are terrifying

    56:29 Growth of private assets

    57:04 Opportunity in GP stakes


    #071 ‘The Patriot Economy’: Omeed Malik On The Rise Of A New Economy In Response To ESG Apr 27, 2023
    Show notes

    Omeed Malik (@RealOmeedMalik), founder and CEO of Farvahar Partners, a boutique merchant bank and broker/dealer which invests partner capital into growth businesses and acts as a liquidity provider of private placements on behalf of companies and institutional investors, joins Julia La Roche on episode 71 to share what he sees as an emerging parallel economy in the U.S. that’s in stark contrast to ESG.


    Omeed is the chairman and CEO of a SPAC called Colombier Acquisition Corp. that is taking PublicSq., a marketplace for “pro-America business and consumers,” public later this year. He also started a fund called 1789 Capital to provide “venture and growth capital to companies building the next era of American prosperity.”


    Prior to starting his own firm, Omeed was a Managing Director and the Global Head of the Hedge Fund Advisory Business at Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Omeed was also the founder and head of the Emerging Manager Program within the Global Equities business. In this capacity, Omeed was charged with selecting both established and new hedge funds for the firm to partner with and oversaw the allocation of financing/prime brokerage, capital strategy, business consulting and talent introduction resources.


    Before joining Bank of America Merrill Lynch, Omeed was a Senior Vice President at MF Global, where he helped reorganize the firm’s distribution platform globally and developed execution and clearing relationships with institutional clients.


    An experienced financial services professional and securities attorney, Omeed was a corporate lawyer at Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP working on transactional matters in the capital markets, corporate governance, private equity and bankruptcy fields.


    Omeed has also worked in the United States Senate and House of Representatives. Omeed received a JD, with Honors, from Emory Law School (where he serves on the Advisory Board) and a BA in Philosophy and Political Science, Cum Laude, from Colgate University. He holds Series 7, 63, 3, 79, and 24 registrations.


    Omeed is a Term Member of the Council on Foreign Relations, a Centennial Society Member of the Economic Club of New York and a Chairman’s Circle Member of the Milken Institute. Omeed is a Contributing Editor and minority owner of The Daily Caller.



    0:00 Intro

    2:06 Welcoming Omeed Malik

    2:50 From D.C. to corporate law to Wall Street

    3:30 Started as a speechwriter in D.C.

    4:11 Working for Jon Corzine at MF Global

    5:12 Launching Farvahar in 2018, advising founders

    5:38 New opportunity in a new economy called the “patriot economy”

    6:33 D.C. is a place where you get a lot of power, but not money

    7:20 The country has changed

    8:05 No longer identifying as a Democrat

    8:33 2016 election of Trump

    9:12 Rise of China

    11:33 Leaving the Democratic Party

    14:15 Tulsi Gabbard

    16:22 China is the most significant geopolitical threat in my lifetime

    20:16 ‘Red America’ is a huge TAM

    21:02 ESG is a marketing scam

    23:00 ESG backlash

    26:20 Opportunity for a parallel economy focused on ‘EIG’ (Entrepreneurship, Innovation, Growth)

    28:30 A $7T opportunity

    33:00 A bifurcated economy

    34:30 Taking PublicSq. public via SPAC

    35:00 Bud Light Dylan Mulvaney backlash led to spike in search for alternative beer

    36:30 Scratching the surface of the opportunity

    38:40 Changes on a personal level

    40:00 TikTok a ‘Trojan Horse’ in a modern-day Opium War

    41:00 Evisceration of the middle class

    42:00 Ceding liberty when you work for a large corporation

    44:41 Need to reevaluate the relationship between the U.S. and China

    51:27 Optimistic for the future of the U.S.

    53:00 Big Tech’s “Devil’s bargain”

    55:00 Impact on relationships



    #070 Axel Merk On Why Banks Are 'The Big Elephant In The Room' Apr 24, 2023
    Show notes

    Long-time macro investor Axel Merk (@AxelMerk), Chief Investment Officer of and founder of Merk Investments, returns to the pod for episode 70 and a wide-ranging conversation on monetary policy, the economy, the banking crisis, problems plaguing commercial real estate, the U.S. Dollar, gold and more.

    In this episode, Merk points out how the economy is a mess. He also explains that those in the “soft landing” camp are ignoring “the big elephant in the room,” which is the bank balance sheets exposed to interest rate risk and commercial real estate. He later adds that the Fed’s actions are converting an acute problem into a chronic problem, where banks with holes in their balance sheets will lend less, which is a headwind to growth.

    Axel has grown Merk Investments into a $1 billion investment advisory firm offering investment funds and advisory services on liquid global markets, including domestic and international equities, fixed income, commodities and currencies.


    0:00 Intro

    1:50 Welcome Axel Merk

    2:22 Background in macro

    3:32 Deep dives into central banks

    4:00 The Fed is higher for longer

    4:53 Big elephant in the room are the banks

    6:02 Banking crisis is still here

    8:40 Banking system limping along

    10:38 Policymakers will bend the rules

    11:29 People will invest based on next bailout as opposed to fundamentals

    13:00 Commercial real estate

    15:22 How to fix banks

    20:07 Moral hazard?

    21:30 Banking is risky

    23:22 SVB depositors

    29:00 Converting acute problems into chronic problems

    30:00 Inflation

    34:00 Stagflation a longer more persistent issue

    48:00 Dedollarization

    51:47 Risk of people moving out of the dollar is more than theoretical

    56:41 Debt ceiling fight

    1:01:01 Capitalism


    #069 Joseph Wang On Why A Decade Of Persistently High Inflation Is Ahead Apr 18, 2023
    Show notes

    Joseph Wang (@fedguy12), the CIO of Monetary Macro and a former senior trader on the Open Markets Desk, joins Julia La Roche on episode 69 for a wide-ranging conversation on the monetary system, macro economy, and recent banking panic.

    Wang is also the author of Central Banking 101, which is now an Amazon best-seller, and operates Fedguy.com, a blog on developments in the financial markets.

    During this episode, Wang said it’s almost inevitable that the U.S. will have a decade of persistently high inflation. He also mentioned that this trend is difficult to combat and is driven mainly by the culture and politics of the era. According to Wang, we are in the early stages of the inflationary cycle.


    0:00 Introduction

    1:40 Welcoming Joseph Wang on the show

    2:11 From practicing law to trading on the Open Markets Desk

    3:20 Practicing law is boring

    4:02 Graduating in 2008

    5:38 Open Markets Desk at the Fed

    7:02 Central Banking 101

    8:26 Misconceptions around the monetary system

    10:50 Disconnect between school and real-life in macro

    11:58 Commercial banks create money out of thin air

    13:49 Eurodollar system

    16:42 Eurodollar futures market

    19:08 Market is fighting the Fed

    20:17 Eurodollar banking

    21:33 De-dollarization

    24:00 There aren’t a lot of good alternatives to the U.S. Dollar

    25:00 What it takes to be a reserve currency

    25:45 Weaponization of the U.S. Dollar

    26:58 Bitcoin

    28:06 Will the U.S. Dollar lose its reserve status in our lifetime?

    28:47 Implications of the U.S. dollar losing its global reserve status

    30:33 Inflation will be a lot higher than we are used to

    31:08 Big driver of inflation is the culture and politics of the era

    34:27 Macro outlook

    35:46 Demographic changes

    39:48 Banking crisis is over

    44:42 Intervention during the banking crisis

    49:19 Is banking safer for depositors?

    50:15 Fed is in inflation-fighting mode

    53:38 Parting thoughts


    #068 Ray Dalio On Where We Are In The Changing World Order Apr 11, 2023
    Show notes

    Ray Dalio, the founder of Bridgewater Associates, joins Julia La Roche on episode 68 to discuss where we are in the changing world order, the macroeconomic outlook, and the rising tensions between the U.S. and China.

    Dalio revisited his thesis from his best-selling book, "Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order: Why Nations Succeed and Fail." The investor outlined three significant forces, including enormous debts and zero or near-zero interest rates that led to massive printing of money; big political and social conflicts within countries, especially the U.S., due to the largest wealth, political, and values disparities in more than 100 years; and the rising of a world power (China) to challenge the existing world power (the U.S.) and the existing world order. Dalio points out that the last time that this confluence occurred was between 1930 and 1945.


    0:00 Intro

    1:52 Introducing Ray

    2:14 Macro picture

    2:56 3 big forces shaping the world

    5:14 2 other big influences

    7:20 Tracking the typical cycle

    7:50 We're in stage 5 when there are very bad financial conditions and intense conflict

    10:20 U.S. and China approaching greater risk of War

    11:02 Debt problem

    12:57 If you mark-to-market bonds at existing rates, you have a lot of financially hurt entities worldwide

    13:35 Silicon Valley Bank is a 'canary in the coal mine'

    18:00 Political internal fighting

    19:45 Emergence of populism

    21:41 The cycle in the U.S. since 1945

    23:45 Over-indebtedness and increasing wealth gaps

    25:38 Spend more than we earn, in debt, and large wealth, opportunity, and values gaps

    28:01 Can we avoid the decline?

    28:41 If Ray Dalio were president…

    30:16 If you worry, you don't have to worry.

    31:22 U.S.-China relationship

    35:00 The redline

    36:40 Brinksmanship

    37:15 Risk of investing or doing business in China

    40:00 World order breakdown

    41:33 The bifurcation

    43:00 'I know I'm scaring people…'

    44:40 The biggest risk on Ray's mind

    45:54 'One thing Democrats and Republicans are united on is anti-China.'

    49:30 U.S. Treasuries

    51:42 Portfolio construction

    54:24 Diversify internationally

    55:58 Status of the U.S. dollar, de-dollarization story

    57:57 Bitcoin views today

    1:01:01 Bridgewater, after stepping down

    1:03:57 Parting thoughts


    #067 Jeff Snider: Markets Are 'Screaming Bloody Murder' And Are Hedged For A 2008-Style Scenario Apr 04, 2023
    Show notes

    Jeff Snider (@JeffSnider_AIP) is an expert on the global monetary system, specifically the Eurodollar money system, and all aspects of its misunderstood inner workings and how they impact global markets, commerce, and the economy. His podcast Eurodollar University aims to educate the public on the evolution, nature, and nuances of the Eurodollar system and true monetary principles. He is a regular contributor to Real Clear Markets and a columnist for the Epoch Times and is active on Twitter as well as He has been a guest on countless programs, including MacroVoices, and Real Vision, for his insights into the Eurodollar system, LIBOR and repo/securities lending markets., etc.

    During episode 67, Jeff explains that since late last year, markets have been "screaming bloody murder" in a way that hasn't been since 2007. According to Jeff, markets are hedged for a 2008-style scenario.


    0:00 Introduction

    1:53 Welcome Jeff Snider

    2:40 Macro picture is “all sorts of ugly”

    3:29 Economy in 2021 was an “artificial high”

    4:00 Not just about macro, also about monetary system too

    4:40 Still in the beginning stages

    5:11 The economy is looking worse in short to intermediate-term outlook

    6:00 Base case is mass layoffs

    6:33 A false sense of confidence about the unemployment rate

    9:48 Unemployment

    11:43 The market is screaming bloody murder

    12:48 A 2008-style scenario

    14:40 Something wrong in the global system

    17:30 How’d we get here?

    18:20 Misconceptions around money printing and interest rates

    19:45 Suffering from a lack of credit growth

    22:06 The Eurodollar story

    26:00 The Fed doesn’t print money

    27:50 Distortions in the economy

    29:00 Fed is ‘smoke and mirrors’

    33:00 What is money?

    34:34 Banking crisis

    36:23 Monetary system has become incredibly fragile

    37:33 Fragility of the monetary system

    38:07 A shortage of good quality collateral

    43:00 Treasury Bills

    46:00 De-dollarization story

    49:00 Shortage of dollars

    49:37 The Eurodollar system will be replaced at some point

    53:00 The shadow money system

    55:00 Eurodollar system is a black hole

    58:00 Digital currencies

    1:01:37 What keeps Jeff up at night?


    #066 Bethany McLean On The Rise Of Legal Fraud Mar 31, 2023
    Show notes

    Bethany McLean (@bethanymac12), author and journalist, joins Julia La Roche on episode 66 to revisit some notorious corporate failures and discuss fraud. Bethany is the author of The Smartest Guys in the Room: The Amazing Rise and Scandalous Fall of Enron and All the Devils Are Here: The Hidden History of the Financial Crisis. She has also written two mini books, Shaky Ground: The Strange Saga of the US Mortgage Giants and Saudi America: The Truth About Fracking and How It's Changing the World.

    She also serves on the board of the Stigler Center at the University of Chicago. She's a 1992 graduate of Williams College.


    0:00 Background and path to journalism

    1:47 Goldman Sachs to fact-checking at Fortune

    4:15 Writing about investing

    5:45 Another side to stories

    6:37 Enron

    9:20 Reporting the Enron story

    14:45 Lessons from Enron

    15:20 Do you own homework

    18:00 Emotion in business

    20:00 Short-selling

    23:11 Do your own homework

    24:19 Valeant stock battle

    26:10 Legal fraud

    30:38 A thin line between a fraudster and a visionary

    33:15 World of business is crazier than ever before

    37:45 Golden age of fraud?

    41:03 Venture capital and private equity’s reliance on low-interest rates

    43:43 A different environment

    44:44 Curiosity covering corporate failures

    47:00 Can greed be eliminated?

    48:48 Banking crisis

    49:55 State of journalism


    #065 Mark Yusko: We Are On The Precipice Of The Global Financial Crisis II Mar 28, 2023
    Show notes

    Mark Yusko (@MarkYusko), founder and CEO of Morgan Creek Capital Management, which manages close to $2 billion in assets, joined Julia La Roche on episode 65.

    In this episode, Yusko, a long-time macro investor, frames up the current macroeconomic backdrop and why we’re on the precipice of what he calls the Global Financial Crisis II as banks fail and jitters spread throughout the financial system. As Yusko puts it, “calm is the edge we need” as the crisis worsens.

    Yusko was the CIO and Founder of UNC Management Company (UNCMC), the Endowment investment office for the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Before that, he was Senior Investment Director for the University of Notre Dame Investment Office.

    Yusko has been at the forefront of institutional investing throughout his career. An early investor in alternative asset classes at Notre Dame, he brought the Endowment Model of investing to UNC, contributing to significant performance gains for the Endowment. The Endowment Model is the cornerstone philosophy of Morgan Creek, as is the mandate to Invest in Innovation.

    In this episode, Yusko provides a deep dive into the Endowment Model, which takes advantage of time-horizon arbitrage. He also delves into the mandate of investing in innovation, sharing an example of a half-a-million-dollar investment that turned into a $200 million return thanks to Sequoia’s early bet in Google on behalf of Notre Dame.

    Yusko points out that the greatest wealth is created by being an early investor. However, making that investment requires believing in something before most people understand it, making you mocked, ridiculed, and criticized for your non-consensus action. Today, he continues to see that opportunity in blockchain technology, digital currency, and digital assets. He is again at the forefront of institutional investing through Morgan Creek Digital Assets, which was formed in 2018 to invest in these opportunities.


    0:00 Intro

    3:08 The Endowment Model

    4:08 Taking advantage of time-horizon arbitrage

    6:47 What else makes the Endowment Model unique?

    8:00 Equity

    10:20 Greatest wealth is created by being an early investor in innovation

    12:08 Mark’s background

    13:33 Dialogue and debate through active listening

    16:00 Lessons investing in bonds

    19:00 A-ha moment in venture capital

    20:00 Investing in Sequoia early

    21:19 Being a journalist might be the best training for investing

    22:08 Half-a-million investment turns to $200 million thanks to Google investment

    25:30 Living the path of technological innovation

    30:40 The Truth Net explained

    32:44 Macro backdrop

    34:19 Liquidity drives markets

    35:55 Fractional reserve banking

    39:00 Banking system driven by liquidity

    41:20 Satoshi Nakamoto’s Bitcoin 2009 white paper

    44:00 Digital asset innovation

    47:00 Bitcoin as a digital store of value

    50:15 A better system

    51:00 Duration mismatch in the banking system

    55:00 Impact of money printing

    57:16 Bitcoin

    58:49 Money printing doesn’t create wealth

    1:01:10 On the precipice of GFC II

    1:07:00 Chance meeting with Howard Marks

    1:14:30 Blockchain is an Operating System


    #064 DoubleLine's Ken Shinoda On Macro, Housing, And The Opportunities In MBS Mar 23, 2023
    Show notes

    Ken Shinoda, portfolio manager at DoubleLine Capital, joins Julia La Roche on episode 64 to provide his macro outlook and views on housing. He also shares one of his highest conviction ideas right now.

    Ken joined DoubleLine at its inception in 2009. He is Chairman of the Structured Products Committee and oversees the non-Agency RMBS team specializing in non-Agency mortgage-backed securities, residential whole loans, and other mortgage-related opportunities. He is co-Portfolio Manager on the Total Return, Opportunistic Income, Income, Opportunistic MBS and Strategic MBS strategies. He is also lead Portfolio Manager overseeing the Mortgage Opportunities private funds. Ken is a permanent member of the Fixed Income Asset Allocation Committee and also participates in the Global Asset Allocation Committee. Ken is also the host of DoubleLine’s “Channel 11 News” (@DLineChannel11), a YouTube and webcast series that provides market insights and commentary with peers and industry experts. 0:00 Intro 0:38 A ‘master’s degree in finance’ analyzing MBS during the GFC 2:20 Macro view 5:07 Way more negative on the economy 6:00 Structured Products, explained 7:50 Why housing didn’t crash 8:27 Mirror opposite of the financial crisis 9:30 Office space 12:00 Less of a soft landing now 13:30 Housing outlook 17:50 Existing home sales 19:11 The Great Migration 21:00 Institutional buying in housing 24:55 Why the desert states are declining 25:30 Seeing homebuilding pick up again 26:37 Investing in RMBS explained 31:50 Forbearance 33:00 Views on credit quality, performance during different market cycles 37:00 Rates 40:00 Structured products 41:41 Commercial real estate 45:00 Parting thoughts


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