The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

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208. The Progress of the Human Race, Part 1 Dec 09, 2021

Show notes

All we ever hear about on the mainstream news is that the world is in dire straights, that we are going in an irreversible direction, and that it is all our fault. Throughout many conversations in Season 4 of this podcast, we have explored these narratives in depth. We would like to promote an alternative narrative...

Did you know that in 1981, 42% of the world’s population was living in what is called “absolute poverty” and by 2018, that number had fallen to 8.1%? By 2030, we are on pace to have less than 5% of the world’s population living in poverty.

Are you aware that alongside nearly eradicating poverty, we have also nearly ended world hunger? Over the last 50 years, we have added nearly 1,000 calories per day to the world food supply average. The world’s poorest region, Sub-Saharan Africa, has roughly the same access to food as Portugal did in the 1960s. As of the last survey in 2017, only 2 out of 173 nations in the world have food access averages under 2,000 calories per day.

We have also drastically increased the supply of tree coverage across the globe, resources are being used more efficiently than ever before, and the global economy has grown by over 100x over the last 200 hundred years.

There are legitimate reasons to be concerned about certain specific issues that we still need to improve; but overall, the data is undeniable. We are living in an age of seemingly-impossible progress in nearly every sector imaginable.

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207. Fix This: Infrastructure & Environment | Gregg Hurwitz and Rick Geddes Dec 07, 2021

Show notes

This episode was recorded on November 9th, 2021.

Jordan Peterson, Gregg Hurwitz, and Rick Geddes meet to discuss the debate surrounding the multi-billion dollar infrastructure bill currently going through the US congress.

Rick Geddes is a professor in the Department of Policy Analysis and Management at Cornell University and a well-recognized expert in American infrastructure policy and development. He has done extensive research on infrastructure, including but not limited to the funding, financing, operation, and maintenance of major projects with a focus on new technologies.

Gregg Hurwitz was today’s co-host. Gregg is a former student of Jordan’s at Harvard. He is now a bestselling scriptwriter, producer, and novelist. In the years leading up to the presidential election, Gregg has been working with an independent team of Hollywood writers, producers, and directors to design a moderate, far-reaching political message for the democratic party.

Find more Rick Geddes online here:

https://aei.org/profile/r-richard-geddes

Find More Gregg Hurwitz on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/GreggHurwitz

Check out Gregg’s bestselling books:

https://amazon.com/Gregg-Hurwitz/e/B001IXPXTG

[00:00] Intro

[00:30] Jordan introduces this week’s guests to discuss the newly-proposed infrastructure legislation (winter '21)—a crucial bill for the American people

[03:28] Geddes gives an overview of infrastructure and his background therein

[07:46] The monumental accomplishment of the US interstate highway system. Could it be built again today?

[11:10] “You've heard the adage that time is money. [That's] certainly the case with infrastructure. When a project gets delayed by the NEPA process for say 5 years, the amount of extra money spent... is enormous, it can sometimes double" Rick Geddes

[14:42] Gregg Hurwitz highlights the unsophisticated way the media and most politicians are currently handling the infrastructure bill

[16:02] “It seems like we can get very little sane discussion in the media on the role that regulation plays in building a renewing infrastructure" GH

[16:40] Extra delay and cost in federally funded projects is a regressive tax that hurts the poor and middle class

[22:02] Pressure on the infrastructure bill from climate change. Looking at the evolution of new technologies to improve the efficiency of current infrastructure

[25:49] “If infrastructure development means replacing inefficient use of resources with efficient use of resources, that should be a net gain on the economic side, so it helps poor people, and it should also have environmental benefits" Dr. Peterson

[26:07] What are our current top infrastructure priorities? What needs to be addressed and fixed ASAP?

[35:31] We need to capitalize more on the utility of combined public and private ventures in infrastructure projects

[52:32] The importance of defining and communicating what a successful infrastructure project looks like

[55:36] Given our systemic problems, how can we give politicians and private firms a positive incentive for meaningful participation?

[01:03:14] You can only focus on so many projects before outsourcing becomes a necessity

[01:12:19] You'd be extremely naive to believe that the people sustaining our infrastructure systems are only in it for personal gain

[01:16:48] The extraordinary reliability of the societal infrastructure system

[01:18:47] “The idea that it's just power that drives people to the top of organizations isn't true because, if it were, we would have many more psychopaths and they would be way more successful" JP

[01:23:15] What about infrastructure projects that should be started immediately?

[01:25:44] “This is the ultimate bipartisan thing because it will reduce greenhouse gases, diesel emissions, improve the efficiency of our infrastructure, and it's right there on the table" RG

[01:26:21] Outro

#InfrastructureBill #Bipartisan #PublicVentures #ClimateChange #Infrastructure

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206. A Lecture by Jonathan Pageau: The Symbolic World Dec 04, 2021

Show notes

Our friend Jonathan Pageau gave a lecture on the conceptual structure of Genesis for an event that was orchestrated by the Montreal Jung Society. Jordan felt that this lecture would serve as a wonderful adjunct to his biblical series, also on Genesis, featured on this channel.

Thank you to the Montreal Jung Society and Jonathan for letting us release this video on our channel. We hope that you find it useful. Visit sites.google.com/site/cgjungmontreal for more info on the Montreal Jung Society.

Event Title: The Symbolic World - a lecture by Jonathan Pageau

Event Description: “Meaning is showing itself to no longer be an overlay to an arbitrary world of phenomena, but rather the very pattern of reality.

Through the questions of emergence, attention, and consciousness which have been permeating so many fields in the recent past, the reality of pattern, ritual and image have also come to the fore. Meaning is showing itself, in a burgeoning post-secular age, as no longer only a subjective overlay to an arbitrary world of phenomena, but rather the very pattern of reality itself. In this frame we come to realize that the archetypal truths are not mostly biological and mental constructs in humans; they are firstly the inescapable patterning of the indefinite potential of the world as it encounters intelligence.”

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205. The Uniting Power of Story | Angus Fletcher Nov 29, 2021

Show notes

This episode was recorded on September 7, 2021.

Angus Fletcher and I discuss creativity, the link between literature and resilience, what makes for compelling narratives, the different kinds of stories, and much more.

Angus Fletcher is a Professor of Story Science at Ohio State's Project Narrative, the world's leading academic think-tank for narrative theory. He is also the author of Wonderworks: The 25 Most Important Inventions in the History of Literature.

Find more Angus Fletcher on his website: https://AngusFletcher.co

[00:00] Intro

[01:21] What is Project Narrative?

[02:27] "Stories are the most powerful things ever invented. They're the most powerful tool we possess" Angus Fletcher

[03:04] "When you realize stories have the power to change how our mind works, to troubleshoot it, to make it more resilient, more creative, more scientific—to do all these things... When you couple the power of stories with the human brain, you throw open the doors to anything" AF

[03:53] The problem with literary studies. How stories empower us and improve performance

[07:06] Wonderworks and the story of courage in Homer's Iliad

[12:40] "Literature and scripture are synonyms. They mean 'that which is written.' So [something] more fundamental than any technology... Is simply that sense of spiritual experience" AF

[13:18] The Neuropsychology of Anxiety by J. Grey

[14:44] What are the 2 kinds of stories?

[19:12] Story thinking

[19:22] "Human cognition is largely narrative. We process the world narratively" AF

[22:12] "The wonder of being on this earth... is to build stories and [empower people] to tell their own" AF "And to unite us in a collective story so we can work towards the same ends" JP

[23:00] Why are certain stories so compelling?

[24:48] The zone of proximal development

[25:44] "Being enthralled is a manifestation of the instinct that specifies the zone of proximal development" JP

[31:24] The ideal spirit transcending the individual; Jung's Pleroma

[32:14] "The flip side of anxiety is creativity—they're both about restless energy" AF

[33:31] What's the source of dreams?

[33:55] "We have this vast knowledge in embodied action." A great storyteller takes "images that reflect a compelling pattern of behavior [and verbalizes them]” JP

[34:56] Abstract representation of patterns as a dream-source

[38:43] Computational power, stories, and the differences between the abstract and particular

[38:48] "Much of what drives the demand for higher computational resources is... producing artificial realities for fantasy simulation" JP

[45:51] Christianity and Star Wars

[46:35] "Star Wars is Christianity for atheist nerds" JP

[46:56] "We are most happy when we don't perceive ourselves as inheriting an archetypal story" AF

[48:16] "We see in stories, and this is partly why our eyes are adapted... so that people can see [the white in] our eyes. It's really important because [our eyes point at] what they're interested in. We can see what they value [and] infer their motivation" JP

[50:36] Literature and psychedelic experiences

[51:27] "In psychotherapy... you're trying to hammer the person's narrative into a single... functional unit" JP

[55:31] Trauma, unconscious mapping, and dream analysis

[56:56] "Any territory you cannot perceive through the overlaid projection of a narrative map is traumatizing" JP

[59:59] Jung, Joseph Campbell, and Erich Neumann

[01:02:51] Jung vs Darwin on stories

[01:10:18] "Literature can build emotional and intellectual resilience" AF

[01:14:55] Being adaptive is “to be emotionally and intellectually resilient" AF

[01:15:54] Creative training; measuring creativity

#Creativity #Stories #Jung #Literature #Darwin

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202. Meaning, Awe and Conceptualization of God - pt. 3 Nov 26, 2021

Show notes

This episode is comprised of multiple Season 4 episodes from the podcast, specifically, Jonathan Pageau, James Orr & Nigel Biggar, Ian McGilchrist, Lawrence Krauss, Christopher Kaczor and Matthew Petrusek and Bishop Barron.

We have paired this compilation with the release of the full video series on YouTube in one video.

This episode is brought to you by Jordan's personality course available at https://courses.jordanbpeterson.com/personality?utm_source=jbp_clips_yt_description&utm_medium=Video1&utm_campaign=black-friday-nov-2021

The Personality Course is available for the week of Black Friday for 53% off.

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204. The 4 Horsemen of Meaning | Bishop Barron, John Vervaeke, and Jonathan Pageau Nov 22, 2021

Show notes

This episode was recorded on September 10th 2021.

Jordan Peterson, Bishop Barron, John Vervaeke, and Jonathan Pageau have a round table to explore ideas and theories of Meaning. All three guests have been on the podcast before, and all share Jordan’s passion for the universal truths of human experience. This deep discussion explores the roots of Meaning and religious significance.

Bishop Barron is the founder of Word on Fire and the auxiliary bishop of the archdiocese of LA.

John Vervaeke is a colleague of Jordan’s and an associate professor at the University of Toronto since 1994. He teaches courses on reasoning, cognitive development, and higher cognitive processes.

Jonathan Pageau is a symbolic thinker, YouTuber, and class carver of orthodox icons.

Find more Bishop Barron on YouTube: https://youtube.com/user/wordonfirevideo

And here: https://wordonfire.org/

Find more John Vervaeke online on his website: http://johnvervaeke.com

John's YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCpqDUjTsof-kTNpnyWper_Q

Find more Jonathan Pageau on YouTube: https://youtube.com/channel/UCtCTSf3UwRU14nYWr_xm-dQ

Jonathan's website: http://www.pageaucarvings.com

_________

[00:00] Preview

[01:30] Intro

[02:40] Everyone gives their answer to “What is meaning?”

[03:30] “We're using meaning as a metaphor... something similar to the way a sentence works. It has intelligibility to it that connects us to the world... so that we can interact and be informed by it” Jon Vervaeke

[07:22] “Our mental framing is transparent like a pair of glasses, but there are times we need to step back and, by taking the glasses off and examining them, consider our framing structure" JV

[09:10] “When you look at the world there is a central point of focus. When you focus on the point with your eyes it becomes very clear... until we no longer perceive anything by the edge of our vision. It's nothingness, it's just not there" Jordan Peterson

[13:56] Bishop Barron's view on meaning and religion

[14:23] “I would say that meaning is to be in a purposeful relationship to a value" Bishop Robert Barron

[17:55] “So I'm talking to you, which I believe is a good, but it's nested in a higher good and a still higher good, so finally I want not just this particular good but good itself—that's a religious relationship" BRB

[18:20] Pageau’s opening thoughts on meaning and religion

[19:56] “The reason we perceive hierarchy is because we are always judging... or trying to evaluate whether something’s good" Pageau

[20:31] Jordan’s brief foray into “mini-celebrations”

[21:53] The idea of revelation

[24:46] “It isn't obvious to me that we see objects—we see patterns" JP

[27:40] “Like a Rolling Stone—it wasn't the first song I liked, but it was the first that rocked my world and rearranged my mind, and I think that's where real value is" BRB

[28:42] Underlying causes of the crisis of meaning

[30:10] “Something that starts with Scotus... and goes into the heart of the scientific revolution is that there’s no such thing as levels—reality just is" JV

[31:00] Science around the hierarchy of intelligibility and connectedness

[33:00] What is science?

[39:00] “There’s an epistemic hierarchy and science does not belong on the top" BRB

[42:00] “As scientists, we are motivated by a narrative we don't understand scientifically… The whole enterprise is driven by a dream whose reality can't be encapsulated within the process itself" JP

[44:00] The ignorance in assuming science OR religion are correct

[44:40] Eminationist ontologies

[55:30] Religious experiences

[01:07:30] The book of Revelations as a psychedelic experience.

[01:17:30] The Psychedelic problem and why psychedelics are useful in communal experiences.

[01:26:00] Jordan’s biblical lectures

[01:32:00] What are the guests working on?

[01:36:00] Beauty in churches

[01:38:00] Growing up Christian

[01:44:00] Possibility is real

[01:50:00] Joining religion and science

[02:03:30] Wrapping up

#Meaning #Psychology #Religion

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202. Meaning, Awe and Conceptualization of God - pt. 2 Nov 18, 2021

Show notes

This episode is comprised of multiple Season 4 episodes from the podcast, specifically, Jonathan Pageau, Randall Wallace, Iain McGilchrist, Bishop Barron, Stephen Fry, and John Vervaeke.

We have paired this compilation with some exciting upcoming episodes in the form of next Monday’s podcast which is a conversation between Jordan, Jonathan Pageau, Bishop Barron, and John Vervaeke where they discuss many of the same concepts you will hear about today - as well as the role of the psychedelics in religious tradition.

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203. The Immaculate Conception: Bitcoin vs Fiat Standard | Dr. Saifedean Ammous Nov 15, 2021

Show notes

This episode was recorded on September 8th 2021.

Saifedean Ammous is an expert on Bitcoin with a PhD from Columbia University. He joins Dr. Peterson to discuss decentralization, different schools of economics, the Fiat vs. Bitcoin standards, and much more.

Dr. Ammous is the author of The Bitcoin Standard, widely considered the essential book on the economics of Bitcoin. He also hosts a podcast of the same name. His new book, The Fiat Standard, should be out in November.

Find Saifedean here: https://twitter.com/saifedean

Saifedean’s online learning platform: http://saifedean.com

(20% off by using the code “Peterson”)

The Bitcoin Standard: http://saifedean.com/thebitcoinstandard

The Fiat Standard: http://saifedean.com/thefiatstandard

_________

[00:18] Intro

[02:34] What are hard monetary assets?

[06:13] The argument for bitcoin being the best hard money ever created

[09:11] "Bitcoin only has users... no admins. There is nobody with a master key" - Saifedean Ammous

[10:36] How the Bitcoin network functions using "consensus parameters"

[15:49] "The way that Bitcoin came about seems... virtually impossible to believe" - Jordan Peterson

[18:27] Other schools of economics (Austrian) vs. the most common today (Keynesian)

[20:46] "So the Austrian school of economics... tilts you more towards an appreciation of non-centrally controlled, distributed networks, and emphasis on the individual actor" - JP

[23:25] Paul Samuelson and communist economic expectations of centralized planning post-WW2

[25:27] Dr. Ammous' academic background

[27:14] Climate change. The push towards central planning, implying certain people or groups know the exact consequences and solutions to future economic developments

[29:41] "I've been struck by the problem of unintended consequences and the irreducible complexity of things. We can talk about the problem of climate change, but those words are incredibly deceiving" - JP

[34:16] Highlighting the crucial role of the entrepreneur in Austrian economics

[40:46] Saifedean reflects on the views held by the central bank, governments, and mainstream economists on money—as opposed to Bitcoin's structuring and the Austrian school of thought

[41:43] "From the Austrian perspective, money is a product of the market and not the invention of the state. The state's meddling in money... is irrational and cannot succeed for the same reasons central planning does not succeed" - SA

[45:50] Overview of Dr. Ammous' book The Fiat Standard

[54:40] Current inflation in Western democracies. The devastating effect of hyperinflation on the average person

[58:15] "Money is an incredible technology for lowering our time preference" - SA

[58:59] "The 20th century was a global trainwreck of watching the money preference rise. Generation after generation... witnessed their money devalue" - SA

[01:02:32] Why some efforts in energy production are misguided

[01:06:39] The Fiat Standard

[01:10:29] Why are we allowing people to mine bitcoin?

[01:12:46] The genius that went into the production of the Bitcoin code

[01:23:14] The crazy reality of decision-making at climate change panels

[01:26:36] Fiat-based currency jobs and the Zoom warriors disconnected from the physical world

[01:31:09] "A lot of the problems of the 20th century, in my opinion, have their roots in highly inflationary fiat currency" - SA

[01:31:18] Covering some of the common objections against Bitcoin

[01:39:45] "We are always going to find more reasons to print money" - SA

[01:41:43] Ammous’ online learning platform

[01:48:29] The growth of Saifedeen.com and the parameters attributed to its success

[01:50:05] The possibility of decentralizing societal accreditation

[01:50:21] "I've talked to seriously wise academics who know that there is almost zero financial knowledge in universities [today]... There is tremendous residual value, however, in the accreditation" - JP

[01:56:18] Wrapping up

#Crypto #FiatStandard #Bitcoin #JordanPeterson #Decentralization

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202. Meaning, Awe and Conceptualization of God - pt. 1 Nov 11, 2021

Show notes

In our second weekly compilation, we are investigating the various methods and practices that humans use to conceptualize God. This investigation leads us down the path of exploring meaning and wonder. What does it mean to live as though God exists? Why are we awestruck when viewing a beautiful painting? Why does walking inside a great Cathedral render us speechless? What is the relationship between these experiences and God?

Jordan talks about how living as though god exists is some form of evidence that we as a society hold these values in high regard.

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201. Islam, Christ, and Liberty | Mustafa Akyol Nov 08, 2021

Show notes

This episode was recorded on October 18th, 2021.

Mustafa Akyol joins me to discuss Muslim history and tradition. We touch on subjects like Jesus Christ from a Christian and Muslim perspective, the Virgin Mary's role in the Quran, separation of church and state as an ideology, the dangers of literalism when facing religious texts, and much more.

Mustafa Akyol is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute's Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity, where he focuses on the intersection of public policy, Islam, and modernity. He's contributed as an opinion writer for the New York Times since 2013, covering politics and religion in the Muslim world.

Published by W. W. Norton, his 2011 book, "Islam Without Extremes: A Muslim Case for Liberty," presents a strong argument for Islamic liberalism. The book was long-listed for the Lionel Gelber Prize for best nonfiction book. It was also praised by The Financial Times as "a forthright and elegant Muslim defense of freedom." His other books include "Reopening Muslim Minds" and "The Islamic Jesus."

Find Mustafa's most important book, "Reopening Muslim Minds," here

https://amazon.com/Reopening-Muslim-Minds-Freedom-Tolerance

His book "The Islamic Jesus," discussed in this episode, is at

https://amazon.com/Islamic-Jesus-Became-Prophet-Muslims

Find a free PDF of his book "Why, As a Muslim, I Defend Liberty" at

https://libertarianism.org/books/why-muslim-i-defend-liberty

Or visit his page at the Cato Institute:

https://cato.org/people/mustafa-akyol

_____

[00:00] Introduction

[02:47] Regarding the separation of church and state, what do Christians and Muslims have in common?

[10:36] What are some similarities between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam?

[11:05] "I see the world's history, and I see a Judeo-Christian/Islamic history because it's all Abrahamic monotheism starting at Judaism." Mustafa Akyol

[11:46] What the Three Abrahamic religions have in common—monotheism, rooting in the same tradition; and strange insistence on a book as the bedrock of culture

[12:45] Unique ideas of religious and societal tolerance through different ages in history

[21:10] The connection Jesus and Islam

[28:45] What is the totalitarian impulse?

[29:30] "I think it is an understatement of the severity of the totalitarian problem to attribute it merely to the religious." - Jordan Peterson

[31:27] Critiquing the inevitable flaws of the purely secular state. The benefits of a higher law on the unification of people and not deifying human rulers

[34:59] "There is another value in Sharia law—[it] was separate from the rulers, even above the rulers." - Mustafa Akyol

[39:35] Briefly touching on the ruling class in Saudi Arabia. A brief history of the Wahhabi's rise to power, and how a group of extreme thinkers gained more power than would have been naturally possible

[45:36] Bad Ideas from the West are, in fact, devastating

[48:45] A modern Muslim's take on religion, power, and the birth of Islam with the prophet Muhammad

[55:15] "The whole thorny moral problem of what to do when you are being oppressed is not something let's say as a species we have figured out." - JBP

[01:18:51] "The inherent problem with literalism in interpretation. The perspective of the reader creates so much of the truth in this model that they can then impose on the world around them." - JBP

[01:26:20] Regarding reason and Sharia law, one group has said that Sharia indicates what's inherently right and wrong in the world. Another group, that it only creates that difference through the imposition

[01:27:01] Mary's role in the Quran and Islamic tradition

[01:31:29] The influence of gnostic Christian gospels on Muhammad in Mustafa's opinion. The odd state of the Jewish Christians who were accepted by neither side

[01:35:16] Final questions on Jesus Christ from Christian and Muslim perspectives

[01:43:35] Wrapping up

_____

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