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RWH067: Prudent Investing In Perilous Times w/ Matthew McLennan Apr 12, 2026

Show notes

In this episode, William Green talks with Matthew McLennan, who oversees about $130 billion at First Eagle Investments. Matt is head of the firm’s Global Value team & a portfolio manager of its Global Value, Global Equity, International Value, International Equity & US Value strategies. Here, he explores how to build resilient wealth by patiently holding a “non-uniform” portfolio of scarce assets that should endure & prosper even in difficult conditions. This episode provides a time-tested survival strategy for investors looking to navigate this period of extreme uncertainty. IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00:00 - Intro00:02:14 - Why Matthew McLennan thinks investors should prepare for turmoil.00:17:43 - How to construct a resilient portfolio by thinking like a gardener.00:19:38 - Why Matt loves businesses with scarce assets in mundane industries.00:23:02 - Why survival is the key to investment success.00:23:33 - How cash & gold provide a ballast in the event of unexpected storms.00:26:28 - Why he’s wary of a highly concentrated investment strategy.00:51:07 - How patience has become a powerful edge in a hyperactive world.00:57:17 - How to build long-term success by focusing on process, not rewards.01:05:28 - How to think better by harnessing our right-brain capabilities.01:23:05 - Why “what’s hot today” is likely to produce terrible investment returns.01:25:10 - How studying wine & playing backgammon help him as an investor.01:29:04 - Why he favors a team-based approach, instead of being a lone wolf. Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences. BOOKS AND RESOURCES Join the exclusive ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TIP Mastermind Community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn how to join us in Omaha for the Berkshire meeting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Inquire about William Green’s ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Richer, Wiser, Happier Masterclass⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Thucydides’ book, History of the Peloponnesian War. Daniel Yergin’s book, The Prize. John Cochrane’s book, The Fiscal Theory of the Price Level. Peter Matthiessen’s book, The Snow Leopard. Iain McGilchrist’s book, The Matter with Things. David Galenson’s book, Old Masters and Young Geniuses. Charles de Montesquieu’s book, The Spirit of the Laws. Stephen Wolfram’s book, A New Kind of Science. Winston Churchill’s book, My Early Life. William Green’s book,Richer, Wiser, Happier. Follow William Green on X. 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Full show notes at the publisher

TIP806: Wise PLC w/ Kyle Grieve and Daniel Mahncke Apr 10, 2026

Show notes

Kyle Grieve is joined by co-host Daniel Mahncke to discuss Wise PLC, a London-listed FinTech company that enables cheap and fast cross-border payments by matching local flows rather than moving money internationally through costly SWIFT networks.

IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:04:45 - The clever mechanism Wise uses to move money without actually crossing borders 00:09:14 - Why two Estonians at a London party ended up disrupting global banking 00:13:44 - How Wise earns revenue from four streams 00:21:44 - Which of Wise's three competitor industries is the most threatening and why 00:26:04 - How fast payments have become at Wise 00:42:12 - Why deliberately lowering your own prices can be a sign of business strength 01:08:12 - The flywheel that makes Wise harder to beat, the larger it grows 01:10:35 - What to make of the CEO controversy 01:23:51 - How Wise's capital allocation stacks up against Buffett's ultimate litmus test 01:30:26 - What the numbers suggest investors could earn holding Wise

Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences.

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Kyle and Daniel use Fiscal.ai for every company they research — use their referral link to get started with a 15% discount!
Read about cross-border payments 101.
Read more on Wise, featured in Wall Street’s Blind Spots.
Listen to a conversation with Wise’s CEO, Kristo Käärmann.
Follow Kyle on ⁠⁠⁠⁠X⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠.
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TIP805: Stock Market Maestros w/ Kyle Grieve Apr 05, 2026

Show notes

Kyle discusses Stock Market Maestros, revealing that elite fund managers succeed not by picking winners the majority of the time, but by making dramatically more on their wins than they lose on their losses. Through profiling world-class fund managers, the book proves that disciplined execution, such as how you size, hold, and exit positions, ultimately matters more than stock selection itself.

IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:03:43 - The five investor archetypes and why behavior determines investing success 00:06:37 - How three key metrics identify truly skilled investors from lucky ones 00:09:36 - Why a 49% hit rate can still massively outperform the market 00:10:01 - How the best investors make 1.87x more on winners than losers 00:11:06 - Why riding winners longer matters more than finding the next great idea 00:12:59 - How different selling strategies suit different investing styles and timeframes 00:18:20 - Why losers consume disproportionate mental energy relative to portfolio weight 00:32:28 - How small position sizes allow larger losses without destroying overall returns 00:53:04 - Why changing your thesis to fit reality is a major red flag 01:07:40 - Why execution and position sizing matter as much as stock selection

Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences.

BOOKS AND RESOURCES

Join the exclusive ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TIP Mastermind Community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.
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Buy Stock Market Maestros.
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TIP804: Kinsale Capital Stock Deep Dive w/ Clay Finck & Daniel Mahncke Apr 03, 2026

Show notes

On today's episode, Clay is joined by Daniel Mahncke to break down Kinsale Capital. Kinsale is a specialty insurer that has quietly become one of the most exceptional businesses in the financial sector by dominating the Excess & Surplus insurance market.

Clay and Daniel break down the DNA of this wonderful business, and if the recent drawdown in the stock is a compelling opportunity for value investors.

IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:03:32 - An overview of the insurance industry and how Kinsale fits into the bigger picture 00:17:32 - The durable competitive advantages that Kinsale has built 00:20:19 - The advantages of keeping underwriting in-house in the Excess & Surplus market 00:35:04 - What is driving Kinsale’s incredibly low combined ratio 00:39:29 - Why it’s focus on the E&S market and smaller accounts is a moat in itself 01:07:25 - Kinsale’s valuation and primary risks to monitor for investors

Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences.

BOOKS AND RESOURCES

Join the exclusive ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TIP Mastermind Community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.
Learn how to join us in Omaha for the Berkshire meeting ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.
Check out The Intrinsic Value Podcast.
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Check out The Intrinsic Value Community.
Related Episode: TIP780: Top Stocks for 2026 w/ Shawn O'Malley, Daniel Mahncke, & Clay Finck.
Follow Clay on LinkedIn & X.
Follow Shawn on LinkedIn & X.
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TIP803: How Economics and Art Shape Better Investors w/ Kyle Grieve Mar 29, 2026

Show notes

Kyle Grieve discusses key mental models from economics and art and how they apply to investing and decision-making. He explores economic concepts such as scarcity, supply and demand, optimization, specialization, efficiency, competition, and bubbles, illustrating them with real-world business examples. Then he shifts gears to art, examining things such as audience, contrast, framing, and narrative, emphasizing how they shape investor behaviour and decision-making.

IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00:00 - Intro

00:03:22 - How scarcity drives value and luxury brands engineer demand

00:07:40 - Why Costco wins by reducing scarcity and leveraging scale

00:09:03 - How supply and demand influence stock prices and volatility

00:10:53 - Why economic cycles impact nearly all businesses over time

00:12:38 - How COVID reshaped demand across industries and markets

00:14:19 - The risks of cyclical investing and the benefits of steady compounders

00:15:34 - How optimization can backfire in business and biology

00:19:49 - Why specialization has trade-offs and why investing legends often stay generalists

00:29:58 - The tension between competition, monopolies, and market structure

00:35:14 - How bubbles form through demand surges and investor psychology

00:38:45 - Why great management teams leverage audience building to build the right type of shareholder base

00:43:34 - How contrast framing and narrative shape investor decisions

Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences.

BOOKS AND RESOURCES

Join the exclusive ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TIP Mastermind Community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.
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Buy The Great Mental Models Vol. 4 here.
Follow Kyle on ⁠⁠X⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠.
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TIP802: When Genius Was Just Luck: The Go-Go Years w/ Kyle Grieve Mar 27, 2026

Show notes

In today’s episode, Kyle Grieve discusses the speculative boom of the 1960s “Go-Go Years” as presented in John Brooks’ book, highlighting the dangers of euphoria, leverage, and financial engineering. He explores case studies like Ross Perot, Edward Gilbert, Atlantic Acceptance, and Gerry Tsai to reveal how incentives, momentum, and fraud can distort markets. The episode ultimately emphasizes timeless investing lessons around valuation discipline, skepticism, and aligning incentives with long-term outcomes.

IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:02:02 - About the Nifty Fifty’s rise and the dangers of extreme valuation multiples 00:03:34 - Why great businesses can still be poor investments at high prices 00:05:07 - About Ross Perot’s EDS and the psychology of ignoring market volatility 00:09:45 - The dangers of leverage through Edward Gilbert’s collapse 00:16:13 - Why sharing stock ideas can create unintended consequences 00:19:32 - How fraud fueled Atlantic Acceptance’s explosive growth 00:29:17 - Why rapid growth without explanation signals potential risk 00:33:28 - Gerry Tsai’s momentum strategy and performance-chasing cycles 00:42:07 - How conglomerates used financial engineering to create illusory value

Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences.

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Buy The Go-Go Years.
Follow Kyle on ⁠X⁠ and ⁠LinkedIn⁠.
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TIP801: Value Investing Meets Venture Capital w/ Kyle Grieve Mar 22, 2026

Show notes

In today’s episode, Kyle Grieve discusses lessons from venture capital that long-term value investors can apply to improve decision-making. He explores concepts such as power laws, network effects, de-risking investments, and the importance of holding high-potential businesses.

IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:03:23 - How venture capital power laws shape investing returns and portfolio outcomes 00:06:19 - Why a tiny number of winners dominate most long-term investing results 00:08:41 - Why selling potential power-law winners early can severely damage portfolio performance 00:08:41 - How modest portfolio contributors can evolve into massive long-term winners 00:09:21 - Why accepting losses is the cost of capturing outsized investing returns 00:11:25 - How Moore’s Law and Metcalfe’s Law create powerful technology-driven investment opportunities 00:13:34 - Why investors should scale positions as businesses become progressively de-risked 00:25:41 - How unpopular or overlooked businesses can generate exceptional long-term investment returns 00:32:24 - Why averaging up in strong businesses can outperform traditional value strategies 00:57:06 - How long-horizon arbitrage allows investors to benefit from fundamental business improvement

Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences.

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Buy The Power Law.
Follow Kyle on X and LinkedIn.
Related ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠books⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ mentioned in the podcast.
Ad-free episodes on our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Premium Feed⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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TIP800: Navigating an AI-Driven Market w/ François Rochon Mar 20, 2026

Show notes

On today's episode, Clay is joined by François Rochon to discuss his 2025 annual letter and the key themes shaping markets in 2025. He also digs into his top holdings, including Constellation Software, Alphabet, and Meta.

IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:02:18 - François's key takeaways and lessons from 2025 00:03:58- Why François views AI as a revolution on par with the early internet 00:07:04 - The circular investment dynamic in AI infrastructure and what it means for companies like Nvidia 00:11:46 - How Alphabet and Meta are using massive capex spending to both defend and grow their businesses 00:17:52 - Why François believes shares of Constellation Software are cheap despite the AI-driven sell-off in software stocks 00:30:03 - What made Mark Leonard one of François's favorite CEOs 00:42:09 - Why François sold CarMax after 18 years 01:11:29 - The three essential qualities every successful long-term investor must develop

Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences.

BOOKS AND RESOURCES

Join the exclusive ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TIP Mastermind Community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to engage in meaningful stock investing discussions with Stig, Clay, Kyle, and the other community members.
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Rochon’s firm: Giverny Capital.
Rochon’s annual letters.
Follow Clay on ⁠⁠X⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠.
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TIP799: The Davis Dynasty w/ Kyle Grieve Mar 15, 2026

Show notes

Kyle Grieve discusses the remarkable story of the Davis Dynasty, a multi-generational investing family that compounded wealth through discipline, focus, and a deep understanding of insurance businesses. He explores the philosophies of Shelby Davis, his son Shelby Cullom Davis, and his grandson Chris Davis.

IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:02:44 - How and why Shelby Davis entered investing later in life 00:06:31 - Why frugality shaped Davis’s investing philosophy 00:11:57 - How insurance became Davis’s core compounding engine 00:14:54 - Why stocks beat bonds during inflationary decades 00:17:16 - How Davis utilized leverage 00:20:20 - What the “Davis Double Play” is and how to use it 00:34:58 - Why an early winning track record can be a dangerous thing 00:54:26 - How a few long-held businesses created the Davis dynasty’s wealth

Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences.

BOOKS AND RESOURCES

Join the exclusive ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TIP Mastermind Community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to engage in meaningful stock investing discussions with Stig, Clay, Kyle, and the other community members.
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Read The Davis Dynasty.
Follow Kyle on ⁠X⁠ and ⁠LinkedIn⁠.
Related ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠books⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ mentioned in the podcast.
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TIP798: Nintendo Stock Deep Dive w/ Clay Finck Mar 13, 2026

Show notes

In this episode, Clay breaks down the fascinating history and business model of Nintendo, one of the most iconic entertainment companies in the world.

IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:01:58 - How Nintendo evolved from a playing card company into one of the world’s most influential gaming businesses 00:14:13 - How movies, theme parks, and mobile apps help extend Nintendo’s intellectual property 00:22:48 - The strategic shift from one-time console sales to recurring revenue 00:26:21 - Why the Switch 2 could expand Nintendo’s ecosystem 00:29:25 - How the Nintendo Switch transformed the company’s business model and profitability 00:47:00 - Why iconic franchises like Mario, Zelda, and Pokémon form the foundation of Nintendo’s competitive moat 00:52:51 - Whether Nintendo’s current valuation offers an attractive opportunity for long-term investors

Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences.

BOOKS AND RESOURCES

Join the exclusive ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TIP Mastermind Community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to engage in meaningful stock investing discussions with Stig, Clay, Kyle, and the other community members.
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The Intrinsic Value Podcast’s episode on Nintendo.
Crossroads Capital Shareholder Letters.
Follow Clay on ⁠X⁠ and ⁠LinkedIn⁠.
Related ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠books⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ mentioned in the podcast.
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