The Grace Awakening: Reckoning with Abuse in the Church

Latest Episodes:

Ep. 20 Empathetic Witness: Compassionate Care in the Catholic Church Oct 08, 2026

Show notes

Guests: Sr. Danielle Victoria & Sara Larson.

In this all-new interview, we discuss compassionate care in the Catholic Church with Sr. Danielle Victoria of The Sisters of the Little Way and Sara Larson of Awake. Join Laura and Hannah as we talk with Sara and Sr. Danielle about moral injury, the importance of an empathetic witness, and the powerful healing that can happen when someone has access to compassionate community. Plus, a glimpse into what brings us joy and a discussion on how to stay centered amid trauma work.

Resources Mentioned:

The Sisters of the Little Way of Beauty, Truth, and Goodness: sistersofthelittleway.com
Awake: awakecommunity.org
Decent Into Light Podcast: sistersofthelittleway.com/podcast

Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Ep 19. When "I'm Sorry" Isn't Enough: What Makes a Meaningful Apology? Sep 24, 2026

Show notes

Guest: Wade Mullen.

In this episode, we have an all NEW interview with author and GRACE Editor in Chief of Institutional Response, Wade Mullen. Join Robert, Hannah, and Zane as we talk with Wade about what makes an apology meaningful, why self-protection is so tempting, and how Wade's SCORE framework can serve as a guide for authentic apologies. Plus, why click-in flooring is so infuriating and an examination of some real-life apologies.

Resources Mentioned:

"Something's Not Right: Decoding the Hidden Tactics of Abuse—and Freeing Yourself from Its Power" by Wade Mullen
"Truth and Repair: How Trauma Survivors Envision Justice" by Judith Herman
Wade Mullen's Blog: wademullen.substack.com

Ep 18. Behind the Red Flags: What the Research Says About Grooming Sep 10, 2026

Show notes

Guest: Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic.

In this all NEW interview, we discuss grooming behaviors and warning signs with clinical psychologist and internationally renowned researcher Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic. Join Robert, Zane, and Hannah, as we talk with Dr. Jeglic about common CSA myths, red flag behaviors, different forms of grooming, and what the research has to say about female offenders. Plus, a debate on time travel as a plot device, the merits of Christopher Nolan, and what it means to wrestle with complex situations.

Resources Mentioned:

"Child Safeguarding Policy Guide" by Basyle Tchividjian.
GRACE Independent Investigations: Netgrace.org/independent-investigations
GRACE Policy Review & Development: Netgrace.org/policy-review
Red Flag Grooming Behaviors Chart: elizabethjeglic.com/post/identification-of-red-flag-sexual-grooming-behaviors

If you enjoy the GRACE Awakening please consider subscribing and donating at ⁠⁠Netgrace.org/donate⁠ ⁠

Ep 17. Courage in this Cultural Moment: Moving from Sensationalism to Meaningful Action Aug 27, 2026

Show notes

Guest: Diane Langberg

Welcome back to Season 2 of the GRACE Awakening! In this epsidoe, we have a NEW interview with psychologist, speaker, & author Dr. Diane Langberg. Join Hannah and Laura as we talk with Dr. Langberg about denialism in the Church and what it takes to have courage in this cultural moment. Plus, Hannah and Laura give a sneak peak into this season's topics, guests, and all the things we are excited about for The GRACE Awakening!

Resources Mentioned:

"Suffering and the Heart of God: How Trauma Destroys and Christ Restores" by Diane Langberg
"Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church" by Diane Langberg

If you enjoy the GRACE Awakening please consider subscribing and donating at ⁠⁠Netgrace.org/donate⁠ ⁠

Ep 16. SPECIAL Truth, Bias, & Independent Investigations: Common Questions About GRACE Investigations Feb 09, 2026

Show notes

Guests: Laura Thien & Wade Mullen.

In this special release podcast, Robert sits down with GRACE Executive Director Laura Thien and Executive Editor Wade Mullen to pull back the curtain on our Independent Investigations. Tune in to learn how the GRACE team handles bias, what it means to be trauma-informed, and common questions we get asked by churches and individuals about the investigative process.

Resources Mentioned:

The Safe Church Training Center: ⁠netgrace.org/training-center
GRACE Independent Investigations: netgrace.org/independent-investigations

If you enjoy the GRACE Awakening please consider subscribing and donating at ⁠⁠Netgrace.org/donate⁠ ⁠

Ep 15. Turning the Page: Whats Next for GRACE Jan 01, 2026

Show notes

Guest: Laura Thien

That's a wrap! In the final episode of Season 1, we speak with the new GRACE Executive Director, Laura Thien, about her journey in abuse and trauma work and what she sees coming for GRACE in 2026. Plus, Robert, Zane, Hannah, and Laura talk about the tension of holding hope and accountability for the Church, resilience in the face of trauma, and the limited edition Selena Gomez Oreos.

Resources Mentioned:

GRACE Live Conversation on Lament
The Safe Church Training Center: netgrace.org/training-center

If you enjoy the GRACE Awakening please consider subscribing and donating at ⁠Netgrace.org/donate⁠

Ep 14. It’s Not An Affair: Let’s Talk Adult CSA Dec 18, 2025

Show notes

Guests: Amy Stier and Emily Petrie

In this episode, Robert has attorneys Amy Stier and Emily Petrie back to recap a GRACE Live Conversation they had over the summer on adult clergy sexual abuse and answer the many questions you asked during the live webinar. You won't want to miss it!

Resources Mentioned:

Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church by Diane Langberg
Research by Dr. Diana Garland
Consultations with GRACE

If you enjoy the GRACE Awakening please consider subscribing and donating at Netgrace.org/donate

Ep 13. Silence is Deadly: Image Management & The 4 Walls of Defense Dec 04, 2025

Show notes

Guest: Wade Mullen.

In this episode, we have a NEW interview with author and GRACE Editor in Chief of Institutional Response, Wade Mullen. Join Robert, Hannah, and Zane as we talk with Wade about image management, the slippery slope of self-promotion, and the 4 walls of defense used by institutions and offenders when confronted with allegations of abuse/misconduct. Plus, why Wade hates acronyms but uses them anyway, and the antidote to the 4 walls of defense.

Resources Mentioned:

Something's Not Right: Decoding the Hidden Tactics of Abuse—And Freeing Yourself Its Power by Wade Mullen.
⁠The Weaponization of Perceptions: Part I⁠ by Wade Mullen.

To support the ongoing work of GRACE, visit NetGrace.org/donate

Ep 12. SPECIAL: Theological Engagement on Child Abuse & the ELCA's Special Message on Child Protection Nov 20, 2025

Show notes

Guest: Victor Vieth.

In this special release podcast, Robert speaks with GRACE Board Member and Chief Program Officer for Education & Research for Zero Abuse Project, Victor Vieth, live at the 16th annual Virginia Crimes Against Children Conference. Victor and Robert discuss what the Bible has to say about corporal punishment, the necessity of theological engagement on the issue of child abuse, and the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America's (ELCA) groundbreaking social message on child protection that was adopted in November of 2025. And as an added bonus, hear about Victor's encounter with Johnny Cash.

Resources Mentioned:

ELCA Social Message on Child Protection
On This Rock by Victor Vieth
Here We Stand: A Lutheran Response to Child Abuse edited by Craig Nessan and Victor Vieth

Ep 11. Silence is Deadly: How Trey's Law is Taking the Muzzle Off the Truth Nov 13, 2025

Show notes

Guest: Elizabeth Phillips.

In this NEW interview, we discuss "taking the muzzle off the truth" with guest Elizabeth Phillips, the primary advocate behind Trey's Law in Texas. Join Robert, Zane, and GRACE Assistant Director, Emily Petrie, as we talk with Elizabeth about her brother's story and how it inspired the legislation that is rewriting the use of NDA's in child abuse cases. Plus, some ponderings about why Superman works a 9-5, if cats really are evil, and what it means to find hope in dark places.

Resources Mentioned:

Note: This interview originally took place in August of 2025 and some legislation or statistics may have changed since its recording.

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