The Fairer Cents: Women, Money and the Fight to Get Equal

Bonus: Season 4 Wrap-Up Apr 08, 2020

Season 4 has been our favorite season yet of The Fairer Cents, and today we're talking about our favorite moments and reading lots of listener mail we've received, some of it inspiring to financial feminists everywhere, and some of it heartbreaking. We'll be back soon, so make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss any new episodes when they're ready. And in the off-season, check out the links below for all the places you can find Kara and Tanja online. Stay safe and healthy!

Kara:

Tanja:

#40 - Exploring Financial Relationships, Part 2: Money and Family Mar 18, 2020

This is the second episode in a two-part mini series on money in our relationships, today exploring money and family (most especially parents), AND it’s the last full episode of season 4. Before we dive in to talk about family, we’re talking about the coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19) and the stock markets crashing, because they’re way too important not to discuss, including steps to take with your money and how to make sure you prioritize self care at a time that feels completely chaotic, especially for women. Our guests to talk about navigating financial family relationships are Cameron Huddleston, author of Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk: How to Have Essential Conversations with Your Parents About Their Finances, and Revanche, author of the blog A Gai Shan Life. They both share advice and stories of navigating tricky money relationships as women, both positive and negative, and looking out for yourself in the process. Be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss our season 4 wrap-up episode and any bonus or mini-series episodes we drop, as well as our season 5 premiere when it’s time. Thanks for being a part of The Fairer Cents community. Stay rad!

Links from the show:

#39 - Exploring Financial Relationships, Part 1: Money and Friends Mar 04, 2020

This is the first episode in a two-parter about how money impacts our relationships, and how we talk about money within those relationships. Within friendships, it’s a big social taboo to discuss money, right up there with politics and religion, but there are massive benefits that can come from breaking that taboo, from getting to know your friends on a deeper level, to feeling seen and known yourself, to even opening up the opportunity to do cool projects with friends (like this podcast!). Our guest is Kiersten Saunders, who writes the blog Rich & Regular with her husband Julien, and who fights for inclusion and racial equality in the financial independence space.

Links:

Ecuador Chautauqua information – Hang out with Kara, Tanja & Kiersten for a week in August!
Kiersten Saunders’ blog, Rich & Regular
New York Times story on women in the FIRE movement
Bank of America survey on money and friendships
Away CEO expose on The Verge

#38 - Evolving Careers, Part 2: How Careers Aren't Working for Women Feb 19, 2020

This is the second in a two-part series on the evolving nature of careers, especially as it pertains to women and people of color, today focusing on the myriad ways our current work world doesn't work for women. We've talked before about the economic disadvantages that mothers face in the workplace and across their entire careers, as well as the costs of beauty double standards, but we're now layering in the costs of disability -- which will affect 1 in 4 women during our lifetimes -- and how our economy forces many women to be seen as disruptors whether they want to be or not. Our guests are Tiara Mercius, who has a legal career and advocates on behalf of disabled people, and Christabel Nsiah-Buadi, a journalist working to share stories from unrepresented voices, but who has had to create her own path to do so.

Links from the show:

#37 - Evolving Careers, Part 1: When There Is No Road Map Feb 05, 2020

This is the first in a two-part series on the evolving nature of careers, especially as it pertains to women and people of color, today focusing on creating your own path when there is no road map, whether that's because you're trying to break into a legacy industry without connections, or because you're literally heading out into uncharted territory. Our guests are Jada Gomez, senior platform editor at Medium (and formerly of Bustle, Time, People and a slew of other prestigious media outlets), and Paula Pant, creator and host of the Afford Anything podcast and blog, both of whom got where they are today despite there not being a well-trod path laid out in front of them.

Links from the episode:

#36 - Women’s Voices, Part 2: Our Actual Voices Jan 22, 2020

This is the second part in a two-part series on women speaking, focusing today on our actual voices and how they are heard (or not heard) by our bias-filled culture. There is a ton of research showing that women and men are perceived differently when we speak, and that's both socially wired and generational. Like in so many parts of the economy, women are held to an impossible standard where you lose no matter what: either you're too assertive or you're not assertive enough. You're not authoritative enough or you're bossy. Our guests are Kristen Meinzer (host of the By the Book podcast along with Jolenta Greenberg, and author of the book "So You Want to Start a Podcast: Finding Your Voice, Telling Your Story, and Building a Community that Will Listen" and, along with Jolenta, the forthcoming book "How to Be Fine: What We Learned from Living by the Rules of 50 Self-Help Books") and Tamara Keith (National Public Radio's White House correspondent and host of the NPR Politics Podcast). While not every woman needs to speak on the air like they both do, their experience tells us a lot about what women are up against in our economy when we speak.

Links from the episode:

#35 - Women’s Voices, Part 1: Speaking Up Jan 08, 2020

This is the first part in a two-part series that is years in the making, and a topic close to our hearts. The fact is that when women and people from marginalized groups speak, it’s heard differently than it is when men speak. So we’re digging into that, today starting with the more figurative meaning of women’s voices, as in women daring to speak up and fight for something they believe in. Our guests are Noami Grevemberg who Instagrams about the lack of inclusivity in #vanlife at @irietoaurora, and Julia, a trans woman suing the state of North Carolina for its discriminatory health care policies that specifically target transgender people. Both of them are speaking up and willing to be visible even though it’s not always safe to do so, and we talked to them about weighing the risks -- including the financial risks -- of speaking up against what we all gain when women speak up in spite of those risks. In part 2, coming in two weeks, we’re talking about women’s actual voices, how the world hears us, and how we can push back.

Links from the episode:

#34 - The Economics of Reproduction, Part 2: All the Costs of Giving Birth Dec 18, 2019

Today we’re completing the two-part series on the economic implications of reproducing, talking about the costs – often mysterious -- of giving birth for women and others who can get pregnant, especially in the U.S. In this episode, Kara talks to Carol Sakala from the National Partnership for Women & Families about the actual costs of delivering a baby, and shares an audio essay on the range of known and unknown stats a mother must contend with when pondering the costs of delivery. We’d love to hear your thoughts on the episode, so please email us at fairercents@gmail.com or hit us up on Twitter or Instagram at @fairercents. Thanks to our sponsor Freshbooks for their support of the show.

Links:

#33 - The Economics of Reproduction, Part 1: The Choice Not to Give Birth Dec 04, 2019

Today’s show is the first in a two-part series all about the economic implications of reproducing — or not reproducing. On the next episode, we’ll talk about the wide range of financial implications of giving birth for women and others who can get pregnant, but today we’re talking about the massive financial impacts of not being forced to have children you don’t want to have for any number of reasons, impacts that go well beyond women themselves. In this episode, Tanja talks to Brigette Courtot of Urban Institute about the economic impacts on women of having access to birth control, and Kara talks to Anna Bernstein of the Institute for Women’s Policy Research about the economic impacts of abortion. Thanks to our sponsors Upstart and Freshbooks for their support of the show.

Links:

#32 - The Economics of Wellness, Part 2: A Diet By Any Other Name Nov 20, 2019

This week, we conclude our two-part series on wellness by focusing on diet and weight loss, the real centerpiece of the entire wellness industry. Just how big a business it is, the lengths the industry goes to to hide itself, and how it hurts us as women in particular. Feminist dietician Rachael Hartley talks to us about how we’ve focused too much on diet and fitness in our quest to be healthier (or, really, thinner), and Tanja looks at the fat phobia that’s the real motivator behind so much of our wellness and weight loss obsession. Big thanks to Freshbooks for sponsoring season 4 of The Fairer Cents. If you’d like to try their cloud accounting software for free, go to freshbooks.com/tfc and enter “the fairer cents” in the How did you hear about us?

Links from the episode:

Smash the Wellness Industry by Jessica Knoll in the New York Times
Rachael Hartley Nutrition
Rachael Hartley on Instagram
Rachael on Twitter
Rachael’s blog post on Food, Dieting & Feminism
Huff Post piece by Michael Hobbes, “Everything You Know About Obesity Is Wrong”
Diet industry research
French women would rather be fat than dead
Yale research on trading life or limb not to be fat
Melinda Parrish video on Huff Post
Stephanie Shames TEDx talk
Samantha Bee Full Frontal clip

#31 - The Economics of Wellness, Part 1: Women & Yoga Culture Nov 06, 2019

This week’s show is part 1 of a 2-part series on the wellness industrial complex, and all the ways it manipulates women and makes us poorer. First up, we’re tackling yoga culture in particular, because of how ubiquitous it has become in western society, and just how problematic that is. We talk with Tejal Patel and Jesal Parikh of the Yoga Is Dead podcast about how yoga has been culturally appropriated from its roots in India and from Desi people today, and Tanja draws on her long career teaching yoga to delve into yoga’s problems with economics and inclusivity. Big thanks to Freshbooks for sponsoring season 4 of The Fairer Cents. If you’d like to try their cloud accounting software for free, go to freshbooks.com/tfc and enter “the fairer cents” in the How did you hear about us?

Links from the episode:

Yoga Is Dead podcast
Yoga Is Dead on Instagram
Tanja’s piece on Our Next Life, “How Teaching Yoga Is Like Multilevel Marketing”
Yoga Alliance and Ipsos 2014 survey
International Association of Yoga Therapists 2004 study
The Billfold piece by Jessica Pishko, “Spiritually Bankrupt: How I Went Broke Trying to Teach Yoga”
PayScale data on yoga instructor hourly pay
Atlantic piece by Rosalie Murphy, “Why Your Yoga Class Is So White”
Yoga Journal piece by Rina Deshpande, “What’s the Difference Between Cultural Appropriation and Cultural Appreciation?”
“(More) Reasons Why Your Yoga Class Is So White” by Chanelle John on Decolonizing Yoga “The cover shoot that brought me face to face with racism in the wellness industry,” by Nicole Cardoza in Quartz
“Jessamyn Stanley and the Yoga Journal Debacle” on Yoga for All Training blog

#30 - Personal Responsibility Vs. Systemic Realities May 15, 2019

Today we’re closing season 3 with the ur-topic of personal finance: is your success in life ultimately a product of the amount of personal responsibility you exercise or the systemic barriers that surround you? To answer this question, we talk to two experts: Diana Elliott, a sociologist and researcher at Urban Institute who studies systemic barriers, and Charlotte Cowles, a journalist who writes about money for New York Magazine’s The Cut and New York Times and has interviewed hundreds of people about their money habits. Make sure you're subscribed wherever you listen to podcasts so you get bonus episodes that we share this summer, as well as news when season 4 drops in late summer 2019.

Links from the show:

#29 - Actionable Financial Tips from Friends of The Fairer Cents May 01, 2019

Though we usually focus on bigger picture topics like systemic issues within our economy that disproportionately affect women, this week we’re getting tactical, and sharing actionable tips that can improve your finances today, with a little help from some friends of the podcast. Be sure to check out the links here in the shownotes to find all of the awesome financial pros and content creators we heard from and referenced.

Links from the show :

Broke Millennial Takes on Investing by Erin Lowry
Sarah Li Cain’s podcast Beyond the Dollar
Bobbi Rebell’s podcast Financial Grownup
Hey Berna
She Picks Up Pennies
Penny’s Twitter
How You Spend Your Days podcast Kara’s blog post, I’m a Financial Professional and I Have Hella Financial Anxiety
Tanja’s book Work Optional, specifically chapter 3

#28 – Microaggressions, Invisible Labor & Women’s Anger, with Gemma Hartley and Sarah Cooper Apr 10, 2019

In the era of the #MeToo movement, Black Lives Matter and a torrent of books on the subject, it’s a time when women’s anger at the inequality built into our financial, economic and social systems is finally being heard. Or at least some women’s anger is. In this week’s episode, we’re talking with emotional labor expert and author Gemma Hartley, and comedian and author Sarah Cooper, about the moment women’s rage is having, the steps that most of us must still take to function in a male-oriented career world, and the tired old stereotype of the angry black woman.

Links from the show:

CNBC story with “Tanja Hester and her husband”
Gemma Hartley’s book, Fed Up
Sarah Cooper’s book, How to Be Successful Without Hurting Men’s Feelings Rebecca Traister’s book, Good and Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women’s Anger
Soraya Chemaly’s book, Rage Becomes Her
Burn It Down: Writing About Women’s Anger, edited by Lilly Dancyger

#27 - Broadening the FIRE (“financial independence, retire early”) Conversation, with Vicki Robin Mar 20, 2019

Today we’re finally tackling the topic that we suspect some of you initially came to The Fairer Cents expecting to hear about: early retirement, financial independence and the FIRE movement or community. But because it’s us, we’re not just going to say “here’s how to retire early, now go buy some Vanguard funds and off you go.” Instead, we’re talking about how to broaden the conversation around FIRE, namely how to diversify it so more people feel welcome. Because it’s not just white tech bros here, and talking about it that way sells the whole movement short. Our guests today include Vicki Robin, the New York Times bestselling co-author of Your Money Or Your Life, and a panel of diverse voices from across the FIRE community who are all working to break down those stereotypes about who can achieve FIRE.

Links from the show:

#26 - Being an Ally, Part 2: How White Women Can Advocate for Women of Color Mar 06, 2019

Today’s show is the second of two parts focusing on how we can be the best possible financial allies to those around us. In part 2, we’re talking about how white women can do better about being allies to women of color, in particular by not being “white feminists TM.” That goes for in financial spaces, and just in general. Our guests are two women of color who've thought a lot about this: Kiona of How Not to Travel Like a Basic Bitch and Marivette Navarette of The Mujerista.

Links from the show:

#25 - Achieving Creative Dreams Feb 13, 2019

Today we’re celebrating something HUGE in The Fairer Cents family: the publication of Tanja’s book, Work Optional: Retire Early the Non-Penny-Pinching Way! But we’re not just talking about that today. Instead we’re talking about everything that goes into women achieving creative dreams, from the glory of the finished product to the misery and messiness that can go into getting there, and even what creativity is in the first place. Our guest today is Claire Zinnecker, and interior designer and Instagram influencer in Austin, Texas, who creates beautiful rooms, but also keeps it real.

Links in the show:

Tanja’s Book, Work Optional: Retire Early the Non-Penny-Pinching Way
Claire Zinnecker’s Instagram
Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert
An Assortment of Animals, edited by Kristin Wicksted

#24 - Being an Ally, Part 1: How Men Can Advocate for Women Feb 06, 2019

Today’s show is the first of two parts focusing on how we can be the best possible financial allies to those around us, whether that’s online or offline. In part 1, we’re talking about male allies: why we need them, and how men can be them. Our guests are Cord Jefferson, TV writer and outspoken feminist extraordinaire, and personal finance bloggers Matt Lane of Optimize Your Life and Brian of Done By 40. They’re all incredible allies to women, and they get vulnerable with us about how they speak up to help the feminist cause, as well as where they still struggle.

Links from the show:

Tanja’s new book, Work Optional: Retire Early the Non-Penny-Pinching Way

Cord Jefferson’s Tumblr
Cord’s Medium page
Cord’s Twitter

Matt’s blog, Optimize Your Life
Matt’s post on how advocating for women has helped his career
Matt’s Twitter

Brian’s blog, Done By Forty
Brian’s post on the wage gap and sharing salary with women
Brian’s Twitter

#23 - Live from Cents Positive: Women, Financial Independence and Changing the Conversation Jan 23, 2019

This week we’re doing something we’ve never done before on the podcast: recording live! This episode was recorded live at the first Cents Positive retreat for women interested in financial independence (so you’ll notice that we talk about financial independence and early retirement a little more than usual), and included wide-ranging conversations on the origins of the podcast, why women need safe spaces for all things but especially money conversations, how money and emotion are intertwined (and that’s okay!) and some great questions from attendees.

Links:

#22 - Women & Financial Advocacy, with Gaby Dunn and Mary Beth Cahill Jan 16, 2019

The economic and social system we live in affects so much about our financial lives as women. So how do we change that? A big part of it is advocating for other women (and ourselves), and so today we’re talking to two incredible women from different generations who do exactly that, but in very different ways: Mary Beth Cahill, former executive director of Emily’s List, as well as long-time chief of staff for Senator Ted Kennedy and campaign manager for John Kerry’s presidential run in 2004; and Gaby Dunn, the writer and performer best known for her podcast and book, both titled Bad With Money. We talk about who they each see themselves fighting for, the economic impact of that and what it means to be an advocate in today's world.

Links from the show:

#21 - What It Means to Be a Strong Woman, with Suze Orman Jan 09, 2019

It’s 2019, and women are still being judged for jobs on whether we’re likable enough, whether we’re strong enough (but not too strong), and all the same old patriarchal bullshit. That’s why we’re kicking off the new year and the new podcast season with one of the strongest women we know of: personal finance author, TV personality and all-around unapologetic woman Suze Orman.

She’s got a new book out, but we mostly don’t talk about that. Instead, we talk about her origin story, including how she earned the respect of the first boss in finance who hire her – with the intention of sleeping with her, not promoting her – what it means to her to be gay, and her advice for young people coming up in careers today.

Women & Money by Suze Orman, reissued in 2018

Bonus: Midterms and Our Money: Women in Politics and Why It Matters Nov 01, 2018

We're days away from the midterm elections, and we have an unprecedented opportunity to elect more women than ever before. So let's talk about why that's important -- and why it's good for our money.

Also on the show, Kara talked to Lily Herman, founder of Get Her Elected, about why women do and don't run, and what it will take to get more of us in office.

Links mentioned in the show:

Vox piece on representation of women around the world

Legitimate rape spoof

Washington Post piece on women running

Milestones for women in politics

PRRI stats on young people’s views on the world today

Bonus: Season 2 Wrap-Up Sep 12, 2018

Today we’re reflecting back on season 2 of The Fairer Cents, and share a bunch about what’s to come in season 3, and even sooner than that! From our favorite episodes to this season to the tough moments, we dig into all of it. We give a preview of what’s coming in a few months (HOUSEHOLD NAMES, y’all!), and share our plans for in between the seasons. Be sure to stay subscribed so you don’t miss some of the special surprises we’ll be throwing at you this fall! We can’t wait to talk to you again soon. In the meantime, stay rad!

#20 - All the Single Ladies Sep 07, 2018

Society puts a lot of pressure on all of us to couple up, but what about those women going it alone, either temporarily or long-term? Or going it alone with a child? That’s right. Today we’re discussing all the single ladies and their financial landscape. (And no discussion of single ladies is complete without some Beyonce references, though she’s done some more progressive, feminist work since that song came out.) Join Kara and Tanja as we talk to two single women, Canadian personal finance blogger and single mom Bridget Casey, and single child-free Austin babe Maria B., and rundown the stats on the much larger obstacles single women face in our economy.

This is the last full episode of season 2 of The Fairer Cents, but tune in next week for our season 2 wrap-up, including lots of news on the future of The Fairer Cents, and some special episodes we’ll be dropping this fall, in between seasons. Be sure to subscribe or stay subscribed so you don’t miss a thing! Until season 3, stay rad!

#19 - Invisible Disability Aug 31, 2018

Some people face more challenges than others when it comes to earning money and navigating the work world, many for reasons that are apparent to all of us. And then there are those of us who look completely "normal" in the eyes of the world, but face struggles that others can't see that limit our ability to do even the most basic tasks. We're talking about invisible disability, a concept that's only starting to be recognized in our society, but which directly affects a billion people living on the planet today. Yes, billion with a "b." Whether that's you, or someone (or probably many someones) you care about, let's dig into the realities of invisible disability for women and our money, and what we can all do to create a more inclusive (and productive!) work world for everyone. Today we're hearing from JR Thorpe, who has written a series of articles on invisible disability for Bustle, and from friend of the podcast Kate, who has the same invisible disability as Tanja, Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome hypermobility type (formerly known as "type 3").

#18 - Breaking Into the Boys’ Club, Part 2 Aug 23, 2018

We’re picking up where we left off last week in our two-part series, talking about women breaking into fields that have historically been male-dominated. Today we’re talking to two women scientists from across the pond – Dr. Jess Wade, a physicist in the U.K. who’s on a mission to tell the stories of women scientists in history by authoring Wikipedia pages about them, and Kim Tomy from South Africa, whose experience trying to climb the ranks in academia also has the history of Apartheid and violence against women to contend with. Along the way, we explore research on girls-only education, the history of the Nobel Prize and what actually happens to pay when women break into male-dominated fields.

If you enjoy the show, please leave us a review and tell a friend about the show! Then share your story with us on Twitter @fairercents or via email. And you can always find us at TheFairerCents.com.

#17 - Breaking Into the Boys’ Club, Part 1 Aug 16, 2018

Women have achieved gender parity in a large number of professions. (Whether they have parity in leadership is a whole nother question, but let’s not even get into that today.) But there are still plenty of them, from tech, to science to the outdoors industry, where the boys are still in charge for the most part. Today’s show is part 1 of a two-part series about women breaking into professions that are still male-dominated, whether that’s by working within the system, or going outside the system to do their own thing. This week we hear from Felicity of the blog Fetching Financial Freedom, and Danielle Rees, co-founder of Coalition Snow, the world’s only women-owned ski and snowboard company making products by women, for women. These badass women have completely different stories about getting ahead in their fields. Next week, we’ll hear from two scientists across the pond, one in the UK and one in South Africa.

#16 - Financial Feminism Aug 03, 2018

Sometimes we take for granted on The Fairer Cents that everyone shares the same understanding of the term “feminism,” but of course that’s not true. So today we’re digging into the term a little bit – what it is, and what it most certainly is not. And then we go a step farther, coining a term that you can expect to hear a lot more around here: “Financial Feminism.” We bring the boys back (what up, T-Bone and Mark!) and hear a clip from Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie’s TEDx Talk, as well as hearing from some friends of the podcast, to create a full and inclusive definition of financial feminism, as well as a case for why we need it so badly.

#15 - Toxic Masculinity Jul 25, 2018

We’re getting spicy today. (No really. Lots of spicy language in this one. Definitely don’t listen around kids or at work. For real.) Featuring Sam Donovan, a two-time “reality show loser,” and Kitty and Piggy from one of our favorite blogs, Bitches Get Riches, we’re not holding back as we dig into all the ways that traditional gender roles harm women AND MEN, especially the most extreme version of that: toxic masculinity.

#14 - The Economics of Motherhood Jul 13, 2018

Today we’re taking on the first topic in which neither of us has a direct stake: motherhood! But recognizing that most women are not child-free by choice, as we both are, we wanted to take on this critically important issue that affects women and our money. We’re talking to Jamila Souffrant, creator of the Journey to Launch financial independence podcast, and Corina Frankie, founder of the Brand Besties event staffing service, about their experiences with maternity leave, taking time off, and how they manage work and motherhood. Plus, you know we have plenty of bleak motherhood wage gap stats to talk about.

Bonus: Things We Disagree On Jul 04, 2018

The question we (Kara and Tanja) get more than any other from listeners is: “Do you two agree on everything?” Because when we talk about money and feminism, we share views on a lot of things. But turns out, we don’t agree on everything! Not even close. And today we’re getting into just a few of the things we disagree about, some light and fluffy, and some big and heavy. From white feminism and the best ways to make political change happen to the British royals, join us in this bonus discussion of things where we don’t see eye to eye. Welcome to the Thunderdome!

#13 - Taking Action to Create Change Jun 21, 2018

We often go deeeeep into the societal forces that make it just a little harder for women to get ahead financially, and we know that can feel depressing. So today we’re getting granular on what we can all do about it! Guest Kristin Rowe-Finkbeiner, founder of Moms Rising, a speaker at the Women’s March in Washington, D.C., and author of the new book Keep Marching, shares lots of tips for how we can each take action in our own ways, and Kara and Tanja each share additional ideas for fighting the good fight in whatever ways feel right to you.

#12 - The Financial Impact of Beauty Double Standards Jun 13, 2018

We’re going deep into the girliest of topics: beauty. And we’re tackling it all: makeup, clothes, hair, weight, class, and the different standards for people of color. But most of all, how all those things affect our money, both our ability to earn it, and how much we can actually earn in the end. With our guests Sanetra, a model, and Amanda Holden, who writes the Dumpster Dog Blog, we look into the – no joke – HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS that beauty will cost many women in the course of their careers, both from the direct cost of looking a certain way, and from the lost earnings we get as a reward for all that effort. Oh, and did you know there's a fat wage gap, too? There sure is!

#11 - Money Things Women Aren't Taught Jun 06, 2018

The Fairer Cents is back for Season 2! (Only 25 seasons to go until the patriarchy is officially smashed.) And we're here to talk about women, money and our fight to break even. Because we give a shit, and so should you.

To kick things off, we're getting super practical, talking about the money things we wish we'd learned at a younger age, and some of the financial things most women are never taught.

Our guest this week is Kristin Wong, author of the book Get Money, and a long-time contributor to the New York Times, Glamour, and Lifehacker. And she's got lots to offer about why women aren't taught this stuff, and what we can do to learn it and change social norms.

Then we hear from friends of the podcast about some of the things they wish they'd learned earlier, like how to money as a stay-at-home mom, how to negotiate effectively and how not to let limiting beliefs stand between you and your money.

Oh, and we kinda have a little ranting to do about manifesting, coaching and multilevel marketing.

Bonus: International Women's Day! Mar 08, 2018

It’s International Women’s Day! This year as we all #PressForProgress, we’re taking a little time to celebrate some of the great women from history, and the rad ladies making things happen now, who’ve changed things for the better for women and our money. We’ve got shoutouts to ladies you’ve definitely heard of, and to plenty you might not have. Make sure you’re subscribed so you’ll automatically get Season 2 episodes when they drop in a few months!

Bonus: Season 1 Wrap-Up Feb 02, 2018

We made it to the end of season 1 of The Fairer Cents! Today we’re reflecting on what inspired us to start this podcast (we're not superheroes but we do have an origin story!), on the notes we’ve received from listeners and friends, and on what’s next for TFC. (Not to worry – we’ve got at least 27 seasons in us before the patriarchy is officially crushed.) Be sure to subscribe so you get bonus episodes as they drop, as well as new episodes in season 2 in spring 2018.

Thanks for listening!

#10 - Investing in Mental Health Jan 27, 2018

This episode's heavier than usual, so if hearing about depression, anxiety and mental health is a trigger for you, please skip this one. Today we're sharing some super personal stuff: our own stories of mental health challenges and how we've handled them, specifically how our mental health has been impacted by money and how we've let money dictate how we take care of our mental health. (Whew! What a paradox.) We also hear from author and blogger Cait Flanders on how she finally decided that therapy was a worthwhile investment of her hard-earned money, and from psychotherapist Casey Lepper on how we can move forward in spite of money anxiety. Women may be more in touch with our emotions, but that doesn't make any of this stuff easy. But investing in your mental health is worth it. YOU are worth it.

Season 1 of The Fairer Cents is sponsored by FreshBooks, the cloud accounting software for business rockstars. Go to freshbooks.com/tfc and enter "the fairer cents" in the how did you hear about us box to get a one-month free trial of the accounting software we both use and love.

#9 - When Men Talk Women and Money Jan 10, 2018

Today, we’re hearing from the guys. Our partners Mark and T-Bone, specifically. (Remember them from episode 2? They're baaaaaack.) And today they’re talking among themselves, not to us. Why? Because while it’s crazy important for women to talk money together, if we want to change the way things are, men have to be a part of that. And we wanted to get some insight into how they think about stuff like money equality in relationships and the wage gap when we’re not pressing them on it. Also, why we’re so stoked about prominent women speaking up, not just making empty gestures. Women crushes of the week: Debra Messing, Natalie Portman, and Oprah… always Oprah.

Season 1 of The Fairer Cents is sponsored by FreshBooks, the cloud accounting software for business rockstars. Go to freshbooks.com/tfc and enter "the fairer cents" in the how did you hear about us box to get a one-month free trial of the accounting software we both use and love.

#8 - Goals, Resolutions and Self Care Jan 04, 2018

This week, Kara and Tanja dig deep into goals, resolutions and self care, but not in the usual way. This isn't a rundown on suggested new year's resolutions, or the latest tips for rocking that bullet journal. This is about the potential darkside of goals, and how when we fall short of a goal, we might perceive what is 99% success as failure. And how goals sometimes support self care, while other times goals push us to be unhealthy. And of course we talk about the positive side, too -- how empowering it is to achieve goals, and how each of us achieved our greatest financial successes. Plus audio essays by Kara and Tanja on our feelings about goals and resolutions.

Season 1 of The Fairer Cents is sponsored by FreshBooks, the cloud accounting software for business rockstars. Go to freshbooks.com/tfc and enter "the fairer cents" in the how did you hear about us box to get a one-month free trial of the accounting software we both use and love.

#7 - The Urge to Compare Money Dec 27, 2017

We all feel the urge to compare ourselves to others (no, it's not just you), including the absolutely most successful among us. But is that actually good for us? And are the images we're comparing ourselves against even true? Kara and Tanja talk about comparison, competition, and what it's like to accidentally be the one others are comparing themselves to (and what to do about it if that happens). And today we've got an interview with money blogger J. Money (J$), who started the Rockstar Finance net worth tracker, inspiring radical transparency across the personal finance blogosphere.

Season 1 of The Fairer Cents is sponsored by FreshBooks, the cloud accounting software for business rockstars. Go to freshbooks.com/tfc and enter "the fairer cents" in the how did you hear about us box to get a one-month free trial of the accounting software we both use and love.

Bonus: TFC's Favorite Things Dec 13, 2017

We're working on a full episode for next week, but this week, while Tanja is working her very last full week of work ever (!! #earlyretirement), we've got a bonus episode for you with lots of our favorite things. We're talking podcasts, books and a few physical things that we love and think you might love, too. Links to everything in this episode are on the show notes page at TheFairerCents.com. And if you have recommendations for us, send them our way: fairercents@gmail.com and @fairercents on Twitter. xoxo

#6 - Changing the Definition of Success Dec 06, 2017

Let's talk success! Specifically success for women, which definitely comes loaded with career connotations and the dreaded "having it all." What is success, who defines it, and how does that definition change over time? Plus where does the pressure to succeed come from, and how much of that is socialized into us as women vs. completely self-imposed? Is it the same for hetero women vs. LGBT women? We dig into all of this and more in conversations with Erin Lowry, author of Broke Millennial, and Meg Sather, a friend and colleague of Tanja's, plus an awesome human in her own right.

Season 1 of The Fairer Cents is sponsored by FreshBooks, the cloud accounting software that's changing the world for freelancers and small business owners everywhere. Go to www.freshbooks.com/tfc and enter "the fairer cents" in the how did you hear about us section to get your free one-month trail of FreshBooks.

The Fairer Cents. Rad women. Real money stories. Feminism, equality, personal finance, and so much more!

#5 - Deweaponizing Privilege Nov 29, 2017

Let’s de-escalate the privilege discussion, shall we? It’s so important to acknowledge privilege, but not to wield it as a weapon. On this episode, Kara and Tanja dig into privilege – what it is, why it’s so important to talk about especially when the subject is money, and how we can talk about it without picking fights. Our guests are Liz Thames, writer of the Frugalwoods blog and the forthcoming book Meet the Frugalwoods, and Oliver Griswold, who tweets like a maniac at @originalgriz. And, we maybe talk about the royals, patriarchy, and why some American mixed-race blood is just what those stuffy old Brits need. (Tanja hearts Meghan Markle.) Great stuff here, y’all!

Season 1 of The Fairer Cents is sponsored by FreshBooks, the cloud accounting software that's changing the world for freelancers and small business owners everywhere. Go to www.freshbooks.com/tfc and enter "the fairer cents" in the how did you hear about us section to get your free one-month trail of FreshBooks.

#4 - Emotional Labor Nov 22, 2017

On this episode Kara and Tanja dive deep into the concept of "emotional labor," an idea that has recently gotten more attention thanks to a kickass piece in Harper's Bazaar by Gemma Hartley entitled, "Women aren't nags -- we're just fed up." We talk to Gemma and do some of our own exploration of the emotional labor in our own lives, and how it affects us, our relationships, and our money. Come chat emotional labor and how it disproportionately affects women.

Season 1 of The Fairer Cents is sponsored by FreshBooks, the cloud accounting software that's changing the world for freelancers and small business owners everywhere. Go to www.freshbooks.com/tfc and enter "the fairer cents" in the how did you hear about us section to get your free one-month trail of FreshBooks.

#3 - Women and Ambition Nov 15, 2017

Let's talk ambition -- and what it means to be an ambitious woman. Women today are allowed to be more ambitious than women in prior generations, but that doesn't mean we don't still get judged differently for it. Kara and Tanja talk about their own ambition, whether ambition and competition are synonymous, and whether we can be ambitious without hurting other women (and preferably helping them!). Also, a discussion with Michelle Jackson, who proudly proclaims herself to be an ambitious African-American woman, which is all kinds of badass. And why it's so audacious to proclaim, as a woman, that you want to earn more money.

Season 1 of The Fairer Cents is sponsored by FreshBooks, the cloud accounting software that's changing the world for freelancers and small business owners everywhere. Go to www.freshbooks.com/tfc and enter "the fairer cents" in the how did you hear about us section to get your free one-month trail of FreshBooks.

#2 - When There's Someone Else In Your Money Nov 08, 2017

Let's talk women, money and... relationships! We can empower ourselves to manage our finances like the badass babes we are -- but what about when it's not just us? What about when there are partners involved, especially if those partners are men? Kara and Tanja talk to their partners about what it's like to money as a couple, and examine some of the key differences between how they each do personal finance with their boyfriend and husband respectively. Warning: all kinds of feelings!

Season 1 of The Fairer Cents is sponsored by FreshBooks, the cloud accounting software that's changing the world for freelancers and small business owners everywhere. Go to www.freshbooks.com/tfc and enter "the fairer cents" in the how did you hear about us section to get your free one-month trail of FreshBooks.

#1 - Why Don't Women Feel Welcome in Money Conversations? Nov 08, 2017

Who are the ladies behind The Fairer Cents? Why are they making this podcast? Are women welcome in money conversations? All that and more in the inaugural episode of The Fairer Cents! Let's dig into the stories of rad women whose stories aren't told elsewhere, getting real about money while taking down the patriarchy. Join Tanja Hester and Kara Perez for this new personal finance podcast all about each of our own unique money journeys.

Season 1 of The Fairer Cents is sponsored by FreshBooks, the cloud accounting software that's changing the world for freelancers and small business owners everywhere. Go to www.freshbooks.com/tfc and enter "the fairer cents" in the how did you hear about us section to get your free one-month trail of FreshBooks.

Who are the ladies behind the Fairer Cents? Why are they making this podcast? Are women welcome in money conversations? All that answered in this inaugural episode of The Fairer Cents! Who are the ladies behind the Fairer Cents? Why are they making this podcast? Are women welcome in money conversations? All that answered in this inaugural episode of The Fairer Cents! Who are the ladies behind the Fairer Cents? Why are they making this podcast? Are women welcome in money conversations? All that answered in this inaugural episode of The Fairer Cents! Who are the ladies behind the Fairer Cents? Why are they making this podcast? Are women welcome in money conversations? All that answered in this inaugural episode of The Fairer Cents!

Coming November 8! The Fairer Cents Nov 03, 2017

Introducing The Fairer Cents, a podcast hosted by Tanja Hester of Our Next Life and Kara Perez of Bravely, that's all about the deeper stuff that impacts women, our money and our fight to get equal. This isn't a typical personal finance podcast -- we're not here only to cheer each other on with shallow epithets like "You go, girl!" and leave it at that, or to teach you how to save money at the grocery store. Instead, we want to understand together what we're truly up against, and hear from women whose stories don't often get told. If you're game to get real about money while taking down the patriarchy, then this is the podcast for you. Subscribe now!

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