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The Curious Middle — Business
The Curious Middle

We’re two San Francisco moms who got tired of pretending the obvious isn’t obvious.
Top 1.5% of podcasts globally not because we play it safe. We ask the questions people are thinking but won’t say out loud, on the topics that actually shape how we live: media, politics, culture, parenting, careers and what it means to defend common sense in a state that often ignores reality.
We’re two women who’ve earned our opinions through life, careers, raising kids and educating ourselves, Expect ideas that challenge what you think you know. Conversations that don’t wrap up neatly. And the occasional moment where one of us changes our mind on air, because that’s what actually curious people do.
Being “in the middle” isn’t about being passive. It’s about being grounded enough to question everything, open enough to learn from anywhere, and brave enough to push beyond comfortable assumptions. Expect conversations that challenge, entertain, and push you toward a more thoughtful, and wildly better life.

Follow us on Instagram @thecuriousmiddlepod or reach out at thecuriousmiddlepod@gmail.com

Latest Episodes:

Preventing Relationship Abuse With One Love Foundation's CEO Katie Hood Apr 29, 2022

Show notes

Katie Hood knows how to follow her instincts and heart when making major life decisions. Today, Katie is CEO of the One Love Foundation, the nation's leading educator of young people on the topic of healthy and unhealthy relationships. Katie shares the reasons why she joined One Love and her ambitious goals for reducing abusive relationships. We discuss how One Love was founded by Sharon Love to honor the memory of her daughter, Yeardley Love, who was beaten to death by her ex-boyfriend three weeks before her graduation from the University of Virginia. Sharon never imagined relationship abuse was something she needed to consider for her daughter, "I didn't know then what I know now, that relationship abuse is a public health epidemic and that young women in Yeardley's age group are at three times greater risk than any other demographic."

In our conversation, Katie shares how she left the world of finance and consulting and landed a job at the Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research, eventually advancing to become CEO of the organization. When Katie had doubts about her ability to lead as CEO of the Michael J. Fox Foundation, her path crossed with leadership guru Andy Grove, former CEO of Intel Corporation, who gave her the push she needed to take the role. Katie shares some of the lessons and skills she learned at the Michael J. Fox Foundation, and how her upbringing, faith and desire to help others has put her on the path she was meant to live. If you want to be inspired to follow a calling, you will never forget this conversation with Katie.

Watch One Love's Videos

10 Signs of an Unhealthy Relationship

Watch Katie's Ted Talk

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Reach out for episode ideas or sponsorship opportunities to contact@meantforit.com

BJ Miller on Life, Following a Calling, and Reimagining How We Die Feb 15, 2022

Show notes

BJ Miller is a physician, author, speaker, practicing hospice and palliative medicine physician. In his current role, BJ sees patients and caregivers through Mettle Health, an online palliative care service. Previously,, BJ was the Executive Director of San Francisco's Zen Hospice Project.

Most importantly, BJ is a deep, soulful thinker with extraordinary compassion and a true desire to help ease and reduce suffering in our world. BJ is also someone who fully appreciates the beauty, connectedness and mystery of our existence so we are thrilled to have BJ as our first male guest on the podcast!

BJ shares how he got on his career path and we discuss the ways his family and upbringing shaped his character. We discuss the sources of BJ resilience, what BJ has learned about death and the ways society can make dying a better process. Listen in to hear BJ reveal what people who are able to deal with death peacefully have in common. This is an extraordinary conversation with an extraordinary human. We are honored to share BJ's story and hope this conversation gives you new insights and maybe a little more peace in talkihng about death.

Watch BJs famous Ted Talk Here

BJ NYT One Man's Quest to Change the Way We Die

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Reach out to us at contact@meanforit.com for future guests or if you are interested in sponsoring our podcast.

If you enjoyed this episode, please share with a friend, send us a note. We would be extra, extra grateful if you decide to leave us a review on itunes.

Topics Discussed

(02:00) BJ talks about accident that led to amputation of both legs (12:57) BJ's mom contracted polio when she was 18 months old (18:23) After the accident, BJ decided to go to medical school (23:41) BJ's list of things he wants to change about end of life care (40:18) BJ shares after seeing so many deaths, his is not sure death is bad (49:45) People who have questioned their faith or their faithlessness have examined themselves (52:33) Mettle Health offers online palliative care, counseling and coaching (01:00:18) What about any religious practices that make grieving easier

Memorable Quotes:

"There's nothing wrong with you for dying."

"Life includes death. There's no separating the two."

"The beauty of life is, yes, being inside of you, but also outside of you."

"We act like big, dumb teenagers. We got way too much power that we know to do with."

"I reserve the right to freak out if that's what I need to do at that time."

"Life is something much more magical than you would ever feel it to be in a hospital."

Naborforce Founder and CEO Paige WIlson is on a Mission To Help Seniors and Connect Communities Nov 20, 2021

Show notes

In our conversation Paige shares the inspiration for starting Naborforce and the lightbulb moment that gave her the idea for a business model and the confidence to make her idea a reality. Naborforce is an online platform that connects "nabors" to seniors requesting help for everyday tasks such as household chores, groceries and driving. "Nabors" get extra income and a meaningful way to connect to people in their community. Paige's finance experience gave her the skills to research the market and create a business model that fit the varying market needs by region. Today, NaborForce offers standard hourly pricing or monthly plans and packages so seniors can get assistance from a trusted network of care providers. Naborforce is also signing up partnerships with employers so employees can get help balancing work with the type of caregiving activities that often push stretched employees to leave their jobs.

In our conversation, Paige shares the milestones in getting Naborforce started, how she is building her business and her expansion plans. We love Naborforce's mission and are thrilled to share this conversation with you!

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Dr. Leana Wen, Emergency Physician, Author, Former Baltimore Health Commissioner, CNN Medical Analyst, Shares Her Career Story Aug 25, 2021

Show notes

Dr. Leana Wen, emergency physician, former health commissioner for Baltimore, professor of health policy and management, contributing columnist for The Washington Post, CNN medical analyst, and author shares stories from her new memoir, Lifelines: A Doctor's Journey in the Fight for Public Health. Dr. Wen has an incredibly inspiring immigrant story of struggle, sacrifice and tremendous achievement. In our conversation, Dr. Wen shares how the early hardships she experienced shaped her character and her career goals. If you are looking for an inspiring career story, Dr. Wen's path is guaranteed to lift your spirits. We also discuss some of the innovative programs Dr. Wen led during her time serving as Baltimore's Health Commissioner.

This is a must listen episode!

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Reach out to us: contact@meantforit.com

Willa's Oat Milk Founder Christina Dorr Drake Shares Her Story Jul 20, 2021

Show notes

There is no doubt that Christina Dorr Drake was meant to be a co-founder of Willa's Oat Milk. Christina grew up drinking her grandmother's special recipe of oat milk. When Christina and her sister, Elena Dorr Zienda, realized the market was missing an oat milk that was both delicious and nutritious, like the one they had as kids, they saw the opportunity and went for it. Christina and Elena decided they had the recipe, experience and complementary skills to launch their own brand and they lovingly named it after their grandmother. Christina's background in marketing and strategy for food brands combined with Elena's experience in food manufacturing and distribution gave them the skills and confidence to launch Wila's Oat Milk.

In our conversation, Christina walks us through how they actually started Willa's. We discuss how they handled packaging, manufacturing, distribution channels and the ways Willa's has committed to creating organic, nutritious products with sustainable practices. We also discuss the quick sales channel changes the co-founders had to make when their launch coincided with Covid. Today, Willa's future is looking very bright. Oat milk is currently the second most popular plant based dairy product, and demand continues to grow. Listen to hear an inspiring startup story and you may be inspired to start something new in your life.

Willa's Oat Milk

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Finding Peace After Grief With Claire Bidwell Smith Jun 10, 2021

Show notes

Claire Bidwell Smith is a grief counselor and author. Claire's path to her current profession came from losing both her parents to cancer while Claire was still young. At first, Claire was in shock and tried to run from the overwhelming grief and anxiety she was feeling. Eventually, Claire decided to become a therapist and worked in private practice for over a decade. Claire went on to write three books about dealing with grief, anxiety and loss. Today, Claire is continuing her work to help people with grief by speaking widely and working with organizations devoted to helping people find end of life and grief support.

In our conversation, we discuss how Claire found her way to becoming a therapist and writer. Claire shares the experiences that changed her and we talk about some of Clarie's adventures while researching for her book, After This, an exploration of what happens when we die. If you have faced grief, or want to prepare yourself for dealing with grief that eventually reaches all of us, you don't want to miss this conversation.

If you enjoy this podcast, please click share and email or text it to a friend!

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Reach out with guest ideas to contact@meantforit.com

How Dara Kurtz Crushed Cancer and Changed Her Life May 12, 2021

Show notes

After going through breast cancer at 42, Dara Kurtz gained the courage and insight to completely change her life and career. Dara started the Crazy Perfect Life blog and self published her first book, Crush Cancer. Today, Dara continues to blog to her 195k followers on Facebook, write and take on a growing number of speaking engagements. Dara's second book, I am My Mother's Daughter, is a love letter to her mother who she lost to cancer too early, when Dara was only 28.

In our conversation, Dara shares her story and the milestones along her path to creating a job and lifestyle that feels like a 'joyful playground'. It was not an easy path. Losing her mother shattered Dara's world, and then getting diagnosed with breast cancer while her two daughters were still young was Dara's greatest nightmare. Dara bravely made it through to the other side, and along the way, she learned how gratitude and mindset can change everything. If you need inspiration to overcome a challenge, or get the courage to start on working on a career switch, this conversation is for you.

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Reach out to us: contact@meantforit.com

Eve Rodsky Wants You to Live in a World Where Women's Work is Family Work Apr 11, 2021

Show notes

Eve Rodsky's goal is to change how families think about the distribution of household and care work. In other words, Eve's work revolves around reversing thousands of years of cultural norms that expect women to manage almost all the childcare and housework. It started one day when Eve was crazy busy juggling a new born, a toddler, an exhausting to-do list, and a demanding job. On that fateful day, Eve's husband sent a text message, "I'm suprised you didn't get blueberries." The blueberry request is this moment, now frozen in time, that eventually led to what Eve did next. Eve decided to start the "Sh*t I Do" spreadsheet to understand the scope of work that most women manage; which includes an enormous amount of "cognitive labor". As a Harvard Law School graduate and organizational consultant, Eve addressed this household problem with the same intensity, and using the same set of skills she used in her day job as a mediator. Eve started to ask around and collected thousands of tasks and responsibilities women manage in their homes.

Eve's research eventually led to "Fair Play", a book devoted to helping partners divide the 100 most common household and caretaking responsibilities. Today, Eve is leading a movement devoted to advocating for policy and cultural changes related to who owns the cognitive labor for the housework and childcare responsibilities in a family.

In our conversation, Eve shares her story and what she has learned during the last 9 years while researching the gender division of labor. We have a lively discussion on why it is so important to shift cultural expectations for care and housework. We also learn about Eve's early influences and why men, women and society devalue women's time.

Learn more about Eve

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If you enjoy this episode, download our conversation with Caitlyn Collins on Making Motherhood Work.

Today I Noticed: A Fun, Simple Way to Dial-Up Gratitude and Joy Apr 02, 2021

Show notes

Today I Noticed is a creative mindfulness practice started by Willow Older and Deborah Huber. On their Instagram feed you'll find their often whimsical, sometimes touching observations—which combine words and sketches—that capture the ordinary, yet magical, moments of daily life. In our conversation, Willow and Deborah share how Today I Noticed started unexpectedly during a day trip to San Francisco. They talk about how their lives have changed—for the better!— since they started noticing and recording what's happening around them and within them. Turns out the prompt, "Today I noticed" is a simple yet powerful reminder to slow down and appreciate the sweet, silly, everyday moments we all experience but rarely notice. Willow and Deborah have discovered that doing so helps us feel happier, nourished, and grateful. Today, nearly three years into their noticing adventure, the "partners in creative crime" are leading corporate workshops, building a global online community, and pursuing a variety of publishing projects to inspire others to dial-up their joy by strengthening their own noticing muscles.

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If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share it with a friend: On your iPhone select episode, click "details," click on the 3 dots to the right of play, and text or email it to a friend.

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Shelley Zalis on Breaking the Rules and Changing The World Mar 07, 2021

Show notes

Shelley Zalis is the definition of a trailblazer. As the founder of OTX, a pioneer in the online market research space, and a founder of The Female Quotient, Shelley has consistently led with innovation and courage. In our conversation, Shelley walks us through her career milestones and the "heartbeat moments" that guided the most important decisions in her career.

While most people conform to the status quo or find ways to work around traditional norms, Shelley's character and life experiences blended in ways that gave her the courage and wisdom to follow her instincts, question the norms and eventually successfully strike out on her own. Shelley shares the story of her first jobs in the market research space, her biggest milestones and we talk about the two mentors who were the biggest influences in Shelley's career.

Shelley tells us the story of how a visit to the CES Conference with a group of friends gave her the idea that evolved into Shelley's current role as founder of The Female Quotient. There are people in this world who are forces of energy that inspire you to act boldly and follow your heart. Shelley is one of those people.

Follow us @meantforit

If you have ideas for guests please send a note to contact@meanforit.com

If you want to hear more conversations about ways to improve our workplaces download these episodes:

Making Motherhood work with Caitlyn Collins

Brigid Schulte, Writer, Director Better Life Lab

You can reach us at contact@meantforit.com

For guest ideas: pr@meantforit.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share it with a friend. On your iPhone select episode, click "details," click on the 3 dots to the right of play, and text or email it to a friend.

To write a review on your iphone, after selecting the podcast, scroll down till you see "Write a Review" and tap.

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