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In this episode, Co-Hosts Karen Larson, Von Glitschka, Justin Ahrens, and Jamie Saunders discuss the power of playing nice with others. We tackle tough subjects like client disappointment and toxic co-workers, and share our go-to tips for dealing with even the most impossible situations. Get your popcorn ready, it’s about to get juicy. SHOW NOTES:Scott Hull, Art Rep: https://scotthull.com Carlos Segura Working Agreement: https://www.honeycopy.com/copywritingblog/working-agreementAmazing article about Carlos Segura’s Working Agreement: https://www.honeycopy.com/copywritingblog/working-agreement Savannah Glitschka, Glitschka Studios: https://www.glitschkastudios.com/about and https://www.instagram.com/savannahfaerie/ Michael Janda on Client Red Flags: http://michaeljanda.com or https://www.booklets.io/b/client-red-flags-part-1-morejandaLaura Hoskins: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurahoskins/ ROUGH TRANSCRIPT:The Creative Shit ShowEpisode 3: Playing Nice With OthersKaren: Hi, I'm Karen Larson. And I'm here with Jamie Sanders, Von Glitschka, and Justin Ahrens. I know for me, collaboration has become everything after being self-employed for so long. About a year and a half ago, Jamie Saunders and I started collaborating regularly. For me, it's been a game-changer. So today, that's what we're going to talk about collaboration.I hope everybody gets a lot out of it. So let's get started.Justin, I know you own a firm of 18 people or so, and I'm wondering how you guys manage collaboration. How does it work externally and internally for your team?Justin: Yeah, that's great; that's a great question. When I think of collaborations. I often don't think about the internal part of it, we have a process, and we have ways we do that and share ideas and all that sort of thing. But, so I'm going to take the sort of collaborating with people outside of your organization because I think for us, it's one of, what's one of our exciting moments of collaboration. Cause we often get to work with each other. Not that we don't enjoy it, but when you get to work, maybe with someone like Von, when I get, when we get to work, when we get to work with someone else. It's just fun because there's a different voice.There are different talents, and you get to have this moment where you get them; I don't know, it just feels like you get to get out of your normal little bit and work with someone. And I think one of the key, one of the key parts of our collaborating with someone else if you're going to work with someone like Von, for example, then like really work with them.Meaning that you have to go all-in and try. Right? Do what you would do with someone else, meaning, create a creative brief and outline that and do all those things, but then trust that person to bring. They're game for you. And that's one of the things the times when our collaboration hasn't gone well; we've either chosen someone that maybe wasn't a good match for the project.So that's on us. Karen: Yeah. And I'd like to talk about that. I'd like to ultimately talk about how we find matches. Justin: Yeah, no, we absolutely should do that. And I think the second part is really is, where we micromanage someone? Cause a lot of times someone like checks up on, or a photographer or something, a videographer like you are choosing them based on past work.And sometimes I think we get into this trap of saying, I want what you did for XYZ organization. And that's unfortunate. Because you might be missing out, or I think you are missing out on something that's just as magical but it's unique for that project. So I was always trying to make sure that if it's me leading it, or one of my other teammates be like, let's trust them, give them space to do their thing.Karen: Yeah, that's great. I think that you made a point about being able to; you don't want to box them. You are hiring them for their entire vision. And that's so important. And I don't think, sometimes I think that people forget that. Jamie, what about you? How does collaboration fit into your world?Jamie: I think what's always interesting to me is having the unique perspective of having sat on their side of the table and now sitting on the other side of the table. I didn't even know I missed it. So when I left corporate life, one of the things I started to miss was just the interaction, the hallway conversations, the break room conversations, the random ideas that can pop into your head as you're like interacting with people from all over the company, the country and internationally. It was just that I miss that like vibe, but then, that's the other part of my job that I found really hard to leave behind.And honestly, it's probably what kept me there a long time was just the responsibility to the outside collaborators. I had the privilege of working with Von or with Justin professionally and Karen professionally at Neenah before I left there. So I feel like. I loved that. I loved being on projects with creative people and infusing your thoughts and energy into my day. And then we did posters together. Justin, there's a book together there was, Von. I don't even know if you remember this, but we used to sponsor your podcast a long time ago at Neenah.And I love that because you would send me things and I could look at creative things. So even though I'm not a designer, I love being with designers. I and I figured out, like when I was at Neenah, that these are my people, that you get me. And I remember to Von we were at HOW Design Live in Chicago.I don't know if you remember this or not, but we were hanging out late at night one night, there was a big crowd of us. We found a couch and everybody was just kinda like vibing. And I said, I just, I don't know why you guys hang out with me. I said, I'm not a creative. And you said, but you are in your own way you, you communicate, you create, you get us and we understand you and that's it. That's why we're all like together. So to me, it really cemented that, that feeling, that I was also collaborating, that it wasn't just like me getting excited about working with you guys.Maybe there was like a mutual feeling. Of being allowed to do what you do and having a sponsor per se, to help you, do what you wanted or create what you wanted to create. Karen: that was the best, so good. Justin: But don't you think that's the magic when it's reciprocated on both sides? That's when collaboration really hits. Karen: It's rocket fuel. Jamie: Absolutely. It's so much fun. And then now it's here I am years later, decades later. Here we are doing the show together and having a great time together, but it feels good to collaborate with you guys and bounce things off of you.And you miss that sometimes when you're alone in your office, having just those people who understand what you've been through in that history together, I don't know how you feel about that, Von?Von: Yeah, I missed for the last two years. So I'm glad they're going to go back to a couple of the events I've normally gone to live or doing it again, then share. So I'm looking forward to that. The virtual thing was okay to try it, but it just, it was never the same. The part I enjoyed the most was just hanging out with people.Talking about what we're doing here. So that's always the funniest part. Justin: Von, you've talked to many, learn what people can do, sorry, in person, like you learn, you just learn so much more, you connect so much harder, like in person, yeah. Von: I agree with that. That's why, I think it was you, Jamie, they're saying that you were originally thinking of teaching and then your son laughed at that fact.And it's I taught for seven years here, locally in the college. And it was okay. But it's I like the way I'm able to teach now where. It's not live audience, obviously, but. It's I've engaged with a lot more people doing it that way then doing it, live in person.Especially the last time I spoke or last time I taught was that George Fox University in his right before COVID broke out. And so I made the mistake of telling the students you don't have to log in if you don't want to. So guess how many showed up and I'm going okay. That was the wrong way to handle it.Jamie: No collaboration. Justin: What about we've all collaborated with you at one time or another, what do you look for or hope or what's present when you have successful collaborations? Von: I think you touched on a big one is, there's been times where if it's. If it's a project that's coming through Scott Hull, let's say, and they're interested in having me work with their team on whatever the project is.It's always frustrating for me where, like Scott says they want to see. Do you have any examples of have you illustrated a turtle before or whatever? And I just happened to have I've done every other animal. You could think of just no turtle, but yet it's like they can't see beyond.I it's just weird. It's and most of them are creative directors, but that's only a title because they can't seem to see the potential sometimes. So I guess I like it when they can look at a body of work and they go, okay. He knows what he's doing. Just give me the right information and just trust me to deliver.Some results that you might be expecting, but also unexpected results. And when there's a few clients that come to mind, when I think of that, who they're used to me doing that. So they're fun to work with because that's what they do. They trust me to have their best interest. Heart. I'm not just going to do whatever.I think just looks cool. I'm smart enough to know they have a target audience that it has to, specifically apply to that. And that's the, so it's nice when they trust me. And my, and I think we might've talked about this a while back, not today, but I'm not that great. I can see earmarks. It could be potential problems, but I tend to, I don't know.I don't want to immediately think somebody is going to be a pain in the butt to work with. So I give him the benefit of the doubt to that, that. Probably an error on my part and it's come back to bit me like two or three times or last few years. And I'm hyper sensitive to it now. So if somebody, I just had somebody contact me of their day this is what we want.It's like some crappy little napkin drawn. I'm like going. Yeah here's a local. Here's a local screen printer, go to them, have them do it. I don't do this. It's you wouldn't want to pay me. And it's stupid anyway, so I don't want to work. I don't say that there's a really good work agreement. Carlos Sigora has it. And if you go to a site, you can download it and it's just no bullshit, really truncated. If you can agree to this, then we can work together. If not bye.Jamie: I saw that on LinkedIn, I think that's been making the rounds lately. People have had it.Karen: I think that part of collaboration is all about built on trust. And without that trust between all of the different collaborators, it's just gonna fall apart. So I think that. I've been a, I've been super fortunate over the years to be able to work with corporations as an outside consultant.And Justin, you were commenting on how, having that outside influence come in and really, Bring a different point of view and a different energy. And I think that type of collaboration for whether it's corporations or other studios and things like that is really wonderful. And there's a reason why corporations.Go outside and hire external creative to maybe redesign their logo, even if they have a internal marketing department or redesign things. Because internally, first of all, they have all sorts of other things going on and they've got so much tunnel vision about what's going on internally.The internal designers have a real hard time being able to work with leadership and work with the decision-makers to come up with those types of things. So bringing in and collaborating with external people is really super beneficial. But I think that internally, and I know I've mentioned this to you guys, maybe not on the podcast, but outside of the podcast, I have a fascination with how teams work together. Internal collaboration fascinates me. It lifts people. It builds trust. And a lot of times what happens is things come out of that, that you don't realize these people were capable of doing that unless you give them the opportunity. So for example, if you do an a, if there's a video project that comes into the studio, And you put your team together, somebody saying, oh, I've been doing this type of stuff outside, and you don't even realize it unless you get, they get put on that team.Justin: I agree. You know what, as you're talking here, I have a question for you as well about what particularly interests you about groups. Is it for you to help understand how to work with them?That sort of thing. But before you answer that, I think just before I forget, I want to share, I think one, another part of collaboration that's really powerful is the energy it brings. Because I can't tell you how excited I am to see what ever our collaborative is going to be. To that project.Like the first, I feel bad sometimes because the first presentation of the first draft or whatever that they're sharing, we're so excited. Like maybe we're almost too excited, we're setting it up to fail because and at the same time, It's a, such a huge bomber when, cause it's not a, it's not a guarantee, right?No one bats a thousand. If I could tell you how many times Vaughn sent us something, I'm like, oh, this is my attitude.Karen: My attitude about that is cause I do a lot of experience in creative departments and I am that outside collaborator and I always set it up. I'm not sure if I'm hitting the mark, let's talk about I don't like to go in with a hundred percent solution. I like to go in with, this is what I'm thinking. And I like to talk about, I like to collaborate as a, a discussion. I like to have that discussion drives what we're ultimately going to do. I don't feel like just like Jamie and I working together. I don't feel like it's my job to come up with the solution.I feel like it's the team's job. That's what I love about collaborating. Jamie: One of the things that I liked when I was, sitting in that marcomm chair was when I would get included in the process. So it was like, not just I always liked when I felt heard, is what I'm getting at.So someone would come in, we'd do this big pitch meeting. And I would gather, I would be responsible internally to gather, I don't know, four or five, other of my coworkers to come in and tell our story and tell who our customer is and tell what we're trying to accomplish.Karen: You guys are the experts.Jamie: Exactly. So we're telling our story to a creative that comes in, and then. We tell that we do it two or three times, right? Cause you gotta pitch it out to a couple of different agencies and then you could always tell the people who listened, and you could always tell the people who paid attention.So that's what I tell my students, that I'm mentoring at SCAD is as you're putting together this pitch deck, and you're putting together this presentation deck, any tidbit that…
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