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116. Designing for Behavior Change, Interview with Dr. Steve Wendel Sep 04, 2020

Show notes

Today I am very excited to introduce you to Steve Wendel, author of Designing for Behavior Change, head of behavioral science for Morningstar, founder, chairman of the board for Action Design Network, and more.

In today's chat, you will hear about confirmation bias, the power of novelty and story, behavior change, the IKEA effect, incentives, and more. There are links to all those past episodes, details about the new Certificate in Applied Behavioral Economics from the Texas A&M Human Behavior Lab (where Melina is now teaching), and information about Steve in the notes below.

I really loved talking with Steve, he is such a wealth of information and I know you are going to enjoy every second of his thoughts and insights.

Show Notes:

[00:41] Today I am very excited to introduce you to Dr. Steve Wendel, author of Designing for Behavior Change, head of behavioral science for Morningstar, founder, chairman of the board for Action Design Network, and more.
[01:54] In today's chat, you will hear about confirmation bias, the power of novelty and story, behavior change, the IKEA effect, incentives...
[03:49] Designing for Behavior Change is a manual Steve wrote for his team at the time.
[05:55] In the book he shares knowledge as well as what you do to put the knowledge into practice.
[07:53] Steve has a PhD in political science, but he studied under an experimentalist and did many field experiments in political behavior.
[09:26] Steve shares the story of the fish stranded on the beach that emphasizes the ways we can drive behavior change.
[10:47] The yelling, screaming, and educating are all about the wrong value proposition. When we are trying to help somebody do something the value proposition is key.
[13:04] You don't fundamentally change human behavior, you work with it.
[14:49] A lot of people think that you want to take the conscious decision making out of it. A level of awareness is important and taking that physical action matters.
[16:01] CREATE is an acronym for the steps people need to take conscious action. DECIDE is step by step determining the problem and crafting the intervention.
[17:28] Your product and your communication are competing with every other single possible thing the person could be doing (including Bigelow-watching Netflix).
[19:41] It is not about getting people's attention, but finding their attention and being there for them.
[22:14] First, we have to get clarity on what we want to accomplish. That is defining the problem. Second, we have to put all that aside and look at the micro behaviors our customers are going through and might get in their way.
[24:18] Steve shares one of his favorite research stories about running a competition about foreign ATM fees.
[27:14] Belief, passion, and investment have little to do with the impact on your users. You need to test in the field and see if you are actually helping people.
[29:20] There are plenty of cool things companies and brands can do to boost their reputation. All of it is based on treating your people right.
[31:03] Mission really matters. The key to the competition was that it was communal and fun.
[32:46] Steve is particularly interested in the intersection between behavioral science and data science right now.
[33:31] Behavioral science and data science are trying to accomplish different things Data science is often in a business setting is about prediction and is broad. Behavioral science is fundamentally narrow and focuses on behavior change.
[36:03] There is a lot of work that is being done and people are finding each other because we are currently in this differing space.
[37:43] Many people were feeling fatigued during the early days of the pandemic because they were not able to rely on their habits in their everyday lives.
[39:22] Getting our kids on routines can actually help them and us.
[40:28] Steve is the head of behavioral science at Morningstar. He has one of the larger teams doing applied research and product development.

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115. Announcing! Certificate in Applied Behavioral Economics from the Texas A&M Human Behavior Laboratory Aug 28, 2020

Show notes

Today I am so, so, so excited to announce something that has been in the works for many months. On Friday, August 21, 2020 it was officially announced that I am joining the team at the Texas A&M Human Behavior Lab as an Instructor for the brand new Certificate in Applied Behavioral Economics, which is enrolling now for the Fall.

The core faculty for the certificate program, Dr. Marco Palma, Jeff Pool and Will Leach, will be joining me today to talk about the certificate program in more detail including how it differs from any program we've seen before.

And, don't worry, nothing will be changing here at The Brainy Business except maybe being a bit more busy! You will still receive new shows and emails each Friday. A lot of you have asked if this meant a move, but the entire program is intentionally virtual so I will be staying here in the Pacific Northwest--and wherever you are around the globe you can have access to a stellar program in applied behavioral economics from the largest academic human behavior lab in the world.

LEARN MORE AND ENROLL

Show Notes:

[00:52] I am joining the team at the Texas A&M Human Behavior Lab as an Instructor for the brand new Certificate in Applied Behavioral Economics. (yay!!)
[02:53] The program is awesome and any fan of this show would benefit from obtaining a Certificate in Applied Behavioral Economics. This program is for people in business looking for that edge.
[05:07] Introducing the core faculty: Will Leach is the author of Marketing to Mindstates and the CEO of the Mindstate Group.
[05:59] Dr. Marco Palma is the director of the Human Behavior Lab.
[07:26] Jeff Pool has a background in communications (working at the Pentagon before joining Dr. Palma's team at the Human Behavior Lab).
[08:57] One of the critical missions of Texas A&M University and the Human Behavior Lab is to put the knowledge and research out to the people to continue it and so that they can improve the health and wellbeing of people in the United States and around the world.
[11:37] This program provides an understanding of behavioral economics from the basic core concept to the point that people can apply this knowledge and use it in their businesses on a daily basis.
[12:22] The certificate program is an online program hosted by Texas A&M University that provides interaction with instructors and fellow students. In order to earn the certificate there are six classes including 3 core classes and 3 elective classes. It is a total of 18 credit hours.
[13:51] Melina will be teaching Foundations of Behavioral Economics. Some of the classes will also include co-teaching with other members from the team (and guest lectures from amazing guests) utilizing their strengths and experiences.
[15:17] The course is designed to stimulate ideas to help you with your business. The faculty will be available during online office hours to answer questions and help you apply your learnings.
[17:05] Marco says a huge benefit to the program is having Melina and Will because of their experiences with their own businesses and their background in corporate America.
[19:27] Another huge benefit of the program is being able to access the work and research of the lab and other colleagues before it is even published.
[20:53] The team offers a rich pipeline of people they are able to reach out to get answers for students when they have them.
[22:12] They wanted to provide enough rigorous information, but also make sure it is accessible and understandable.
[24:11] The certificate program is a great option for people that are already established in careers, but really want that edge.
[26:30] Just being curious about human behavior is all you need because they are going to provide the rest. It doesn't matter what industry you are in.
[28:22] They are building the program knowing that it is going to be responsive.
[30:46] The program will be starting with two classes in Fall 2020.
[33:01] If you happen to find a course you are excited about but not quite ready for the full certificate, you can test it out and just take a class you think sounds interesting. We wanted to make this accessible to everyone to get what they need; where, when, and how they need it.
[35:03] This is intended to evolve with our learners. We plan to add more electives that are specific for certain industries and disciplines. This program is for people like you looking to get that edge in business.
[35:46] The program is all online so wherever you are in the world you can have the same access as someone in College Station.
[37:12] I hope to see many of you in class this fall and beyond!

Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.

Important Links:

Texas A&M Human Behavior Lab Certificate Program - learn more and enroll!
Inside the Texas A&M Human Behavior Lab
Will Leach Interview

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114. Stressed and Overcommitted? Tips to Tackle Planning Fallacy, a behavioral economics foundations episode Aug 21, 2020

Show notes

Today, we are going to be digging in on a particular aspect of optimism bias called the planning fallacy. Essentially, we humans are pretty much doomed with underestimating how much something will cost or how long it will take, even if we have evidence showing otherwise. This is why projects like the Big Dig come in years late and billions of dollars over budget, or why you constantly have a to-do list more ambitious than can actually be completed.

In today's episode, Melina will spend a little bit of time telling you about how it works and what studies have found, as well as tips for overcoming this bias (and let me tell you, this is one of my personal biggest challenges so these are tips I can provide from experience!)

Show Notes:

[00:53] Essentially, we humans are pretty much doomed with underestimating how much something will cost or how long it will take, even if we have evidence showing otherwise.
[03:02] I'm a big victim to planning fallacy. As an ambitious and optimistic person, I am confident I can do things quickly and perfectly each time, and I am prone to underestimate how long something will take me to complete.
[03:42] I've been able to identify this tendency in myself. Understanding planning fallacy helps me adapt and do better in practice than I would naturally.
[05:10] We fall victim again and again because success is so much easier to imagine the successful scenario than the failure.
[07:26] Melina shares about the Big Dig in Boston, Seattle viaduct project and Sydney Opera House.
[08:57] It is important to know that planning fallacy is more than mere procrastination. Having deadlines doesn't necessarily help either because people are expecting things will go smoother than they will and aren't planning to fail.
[10:34] The focusing illusion shows us that as you look at or consider something, it feels like it is more important than it really is. Fundamental attribution error is about when you attribute external or internal motivation onto a situation incorrectly.
[12:22] You have that optimism bias saying you have learned from your past projects and this is really similar to the project you did for XYZ company so you can capitalize on some of that work so that internal dialogue and story of your own skill is played up.
[13:03] Your brain likes to think it is constantly getting better, so it feels good to predict you will be faster than before.
[13:49] When you don't plan for those external pieces and factor them into your time budget, you are falling victim to planning fallacy.
[13:59] One helpful option is to have people determine their timing as if a coworker was taking on the project. If you were to consider the coworker you will have less of the intrinsic stuff and can see the external pieces a little more clearly. Especially if you choose a coworker who you think is slower than you.
[14:55] Ather brain trick to watch out for is bikeshedding, where your brain will look for smaller things to work on and make you think you need to do those in this exact moment and you can't work on the thing you really should be working on until this other thing is complete.
[15:34] This may mean planning for breaks to give your brain a little bikeshedding treat to keep working.
[18:17] My advice: to plan your day's commitments using the worst-case scenario.
[19:35] One of my suggestions to stay on task and keep my brain organized is using a Time Timer.
[20:09] I want to stress that your brain is going to tell you that you don't need to do this. That you don't need as much time as other people or that you won't get distracted. That is the optimism bias and planning fallacy talking.
[20:54] Every task can be sorted by whether it is urgent or important and falls into one of four quadrants (check your freebie worksheet to try it out).
[22:08] Planning for distractions will help you keep to your projected timelines and overcome planning fallacy.
[24:23] Narrowing your goals and priorities to what matters and being present when you are doing those things has helped me to tackle the planning fallacy and I think it can for you too.
[25:32] Sorry to tell you this, but groups are worse at predicting how long things will take or how much something will cost.
[26:02] One way to get around this for groups is to have each person or department do their forecast on their own and then have someone add them all up behind the scenes instead of having a group discussion.
[27:06] The plan is only as good as the tracking.
[28:20] If you don't include the external stuff in the calculation there is no tracking system or project management tool that can overcome planning fallacy.
[30:21] Another tip that studies have shown can help people overcome planning fallacy is to intentionally think about setbacks.
[31:45] When planning for how long something will take, we often look at the full elephant instead of all its components. When you don't break a project into small enough subtasks, you are going to underestimate how long things will take.
[33:49] Unpacking the project into those minutia tasks will allow you to more properly see the full scope and allocate enough time to get it all done.
[34:36] Remember not to get down on yourself about planning fallacy. It is a natural human tendency that spans across gender, culture and personality type. Knowing how your brain may try to trick you and using the tips in this episode can help you be less likely to succumb to it in the future, which can make you happier, less stressed, and living up to your commitments more often.

Don't Forget Your FREE Planning Fallacy Worksheet!

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113: How To Use Behavioral Economics to Create Thriving Cities, an interview with Colu Aug 14, 2020

Show notes

Today I am excited to introduce you to a really cool company called Colu. The company was launched in 2014 and currently has a staff of 40 people in the US, UK, and Israel with a mission to make more vibrant, connective, and inclusive cities around the world.

Joining me on the show today is Michael Mazur, Colu's VP of Business Development and Global Business Development Manager Elad Erdan. One of the things I really love about this company is they were doing some really smart things in previous years that are incredibly applicable during this pandemic to help boost economic recovery and keep cities thriving.

In our conversation, we talk about an amazing project they did in Tel Aviv that helped a shopping area see 700 percent growth in 45 days. We also talk about a new project that just launched in Akron, Ohio and get into some brainstorming around a topic a lot of people around the world have been talking about: masks. Michael, Elad, and I had a short conversation about this and came up with some pretty interesting potential solutions. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on them!

Show Notes:

[01:14] Colu has done some really smart things in previous years that are incredibly applicable during this pandemic to help boost economic recovery and keep cities thriving.
[03:34] Colu works with cities in the U.S. and abroad, by rewarding resident behaviors that meet the strategic goals of each city.
[04:41] They have worked with many different researchers and experts to create their processes including Dan Ariely.
[07:00] Right now cities mostly need help supporting their small businesses.
[08:45] Each city has its own unique challenges and behaviors they want to promote.
[10:05] They share about the Jerusalem Boulevard Project.
[12:11] They used their platform in Tel Aviv to support the local businesses. They used their mobile app to tell the residents the story of small businesses.
[14:18] The business owners in that area experienced a growth of more than 700% in the first 45 days of the initiative.
[15:16] In the next 45 days (even though they no longer had any incentives) the residents continued to visit the area because of the story and the emotional connection that was established.
[18:04] They are working to ultimately create loyalty between the residents and the local businesses.
[19:42] Akron, Ohio is the first city to launch in the states.
[21:26] They created a coronavirus task force to research and figure out how they could best help cities and what cities are going through.
[24:13] They are looking at the average price per transaction, the way people consume, and the way people shop by segment.
[26:03] In Akron, you can get rewarded for shopping at a local business whether it is online or in-person. When you are ready to redeem your local coins then you have to be in-person.
[27:46] The city can monitor and change the program as it runs.
[28:54] They are also using challenges; encouraging people to develop a new habit.
[31:35] Encouraging people to wear masks is something that is very difficult and a lot of people are struggling with.
[33:16] Cities started giving businesses carrots for enforcing mask-wearing. In Israel, they reward businesses that are keeping the rules and conditions of the purple badge.
[35:55] We need to take mask-wearing from a negative experience to a positive experience. Say, if you get caught with a mask then you can be rewarded.
[36:45] It is important to highlight the celebrations. We need to acknowledge and recognize people when they are doing something good for themselves and the community.
[39:05] Consider this: If you wear a mask you might randomly win a prize.
[40:25] They want to help as many cities as possible in terms of supporting their key points. They focus on small businesses and diversity.
[42:46] It is their mission to help cities think outside the box and in ways that will create long-term change.
[45:12] They are trying to help cities unlock their true potential.
[47:19] Economic recovery will take time, but hopefully companies like Colu can help make that a smoother, faster transition for many cities around the world.

Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.

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111: Avoiding Everyday Work Disasters, an Interview with Dr. Gleb Tsipursky Jul 31, 2020

Show notes

Today I am excited to introduce you to Dr. Gleb Tsipursky, a disaster avoidance expert and author of multiple books including Never Go With Your Gut, which we will be digging into today, as well as The Truth Seekers Handbook, and a brand new book called Resilience: Adapt and Plan for the New Abnormal of the COVID-19 Coronavirus Pandemic. Gleb has been consulting, coaching and speaking for over 20 years and has done work for clients like Aflac, Honda, IBM, the World Wildlife Fund, and over a hundred others. He taught at the Ohio State University and is a behavioral economist and cognitive neuroscientist studying the psychology of decision making in business. His research has appeared in Behavior and Social Issues, Journal of Social and Political Psychology and more. In our conversation today, Gleb will tell you about why you should never go with your gut, ways to think about avoiding disasters, what a disaster really is, and five important questions you should be asking to identify and avoid those potential disasters. I hope you enjoy the conversation and learn some valuable tips to apply into your life and business. Show Notes:

[01:18] Gleb taught at Ohio State University and is a behavioral economist and cognitive neuroscientist studying the psychology of decision making in business.
[02:46] Gleb will tell you about why you should never go with your gut, ways to think about avoiding disasters, and five important questions you should be asking in your business.
[03:42] Gleb is known as the disaster avoidance expert. Disasters come from bad decisions.
[05:06] In his research he looks at how we deal with these bad decisions in our professional and personal lives.
[07:01] A disaster is anything that makes a significant negative impact on your bottom line.
[09:01] Disasters can result from one big decision or a series of small decisions.
[10:19] What are the alternatives to staying where you are and what are the long-term consequences of each action.
[13:19] Our emotions determine 80-90% of our decision making when we don't follow a structured decision making process.
[14:14] We often feel emotionally attached and invested and don't realize it will be better in the long run to let it go. You have to acknowledge you are wrong to address the situation.
[16:45] Previously, the media filtered out some information, but now we have direct communication with public figures on the internet.
[18:55] We believe the first thing we hear until it has been proven wrong.
[19:10] Our gut reaction and intuitions are not wired for the modern world.
[20:09] The anchoring bias is when we are anchored to the first piece of information we hear. It weighs on us more heavily.
[22:19] The main reason we should not trust our gut is because it was created for the savannah environment and we don't live in that environment anymore.
[23:36] Herding is one way we show our tribal tendency.
[25:44] There is tribal discomfort with someone that is clearly from another tribe.
[26:43] An aspect of tribalism is called accent discrimination.
[28:02] Tribalism can hurt morale and engagement and cause disasters.
[29:59] We need to broaden our circle of empathy and who we consider to be part of our group or team.
[30:09] Take an outside perspective. Step outside of yourself and look at your situation from an outside view.
[31:17] Examples of aligning incentives so teams can work toward the same goal.
[33:29] It is important to have globalized incentives that support the company overall.
[34:44] There are more incentives that can be offered then just money.
[37:36] The empathy gap has to do with us underestimating other people's emotions—especially those who are not part of our tribe.
[39:11] It is important to figure out what is going to be emotionally appealing to people and address their emotional needs in a way that aligns with the right incentives for the company.
[40:04] Change management often results in a disaster because the focus is in thinking of people as logical and rational instead of understanding their emotions which inhibit change. You should be addressing the emotions before addressing logic and reason.
[41:52] Gleb recommends we use a 5 question process to make decisions we do not want to screw up.
[42:29] We tend to look for information that confirms our beliefs and we ignore information that doesn't. We need to look twice as hard and weigh information twice as heavily that goes against our preferred choice.
[43:47] Think about what a trusted advisor would say in your situation.
[45:33] You need to have a revision point so you know what you are doing to do differently if things don't go as you planned.

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109. Secrets of Motivation and Incentives, Tim Houlihan Interview Jul 17, 2020

Show notes

Today features an interview with Tim Houlihan, cohost of Behavioral Grooves podcast and the Weekly Grooves podcast, also the founder of Behavior Alchemy. Behavior Alchemy is a consultancy helping companies to incorporate behavioral economics into their businesses, we will talk about some of his work and past projects – including one with Dan Ariely.

In life, I think it is important to find joy and humor in the small things. So when there was an opportunity for some with this episode, we took it. You see, I was a guest on the Behavioral Grooves podcast for episode 109 of their show, and even though this was recorded several weeks ago, Tim and I agreed it was worth holding onto for a bit so we could have this crossover episode of sorts be the same number.

In our conversation, Tim and I focus on goals. Something you have heard covered a lot on the show, and while he has some similarly aligned tips, the stories and studies he references are mostly going to be new to the show. And in my opinion, reinforcing tips is important to help you find the right way to achieve more of your own goals. It is a good thing to revisit in as many ways as we can so everyone can find the thing that resonates with them specifically. I am sure you will find some interesting and useful tips and tidbits in this conversation with Tim.

Show Notes:

[01:32] Habit Weekly shared their top behavioral science content of 2020 so far. There were only 4 podcast episodes included, and my interview with Dan Ariely on the Shapa numberless scale (ep 101) was one of them! Thank you Habit Weekly!
[02:51] In life, I think it is important to find joy and humor in the small things and so when there was an opportunity for some with this episode,we took it...
[04:37] 20 some years ago, Tim got involved in a business designing incentives and employee engagement programs, rules and rewards. That led him down a path of falling in love with behavioral sciences.
[05:59] They use the Behavioral Grooves podcast to expand their own learning and it has become a public service about application of behavioral science at work and life.
[06:20] On the Behavioral Grooves podcast they talk to researchers, practitioners, and "accidental behavioral scientists."
[08:26] Think as big as possible when you are setting your goals and vision. When you are looking at actually moving forward, you want to go as small as possible, especially when executing.
[09:29] Tim uses Big Hairy Audacious Goals (BHAGs). These light up our prefrontal cortex which gets our imagination engaged.
[10:18] If you don't break those big goals down into small bricks you can't build the cathedral.
[10:29] The articulation of the plan is most important in any goal development.
[11:27] Self-selected goals are the richest kind of goals we can have.
[13:01] Since the half marathon Melina has been training for is pivoting to a virtual half marathon she is having to revisit and reshape her vision based on what the world will allow.
[15:21] Social media is going to help people to stick to their commitments and achieve their goals.
[17:12] If people are not given due dates they often procrastinate and struggle to meet the goal.
[20:03] Many people would do the bare minimum to hit their goals at the call center.
[21:39] The environment and context was shaping their decisions.
[23:42] A More Beautiful Question talks about using questions instead of answers and some schools that have come up with alternative models to teaching.
[25:03] Tim recommends the fewer the goals the better and no more than three goals at one time. (Matching Melina's advice! Narrow down to your three goals with the free Master Your Mindset Mini Course)
[25:46] Goals need to be time specific and time manageable. Tim suggests month long goals or quarterly goals.
[26:25] The shorter the goals, the more likely you are to achieve them. We rely on achievement to propel us to take on the next goal.
[27:41] We can do so many things to contribute to our goal if we are thoughtful of our goal, our daily activities, and have a plan. Failing to plan is planning to fail. A goal also needs to be measurable.
[30:39] Start small with something that is totally achievable.
[31:34] When you set up your to-do list with 35 things and you only get 3 done you feel like you failed.
[34:36] Everything we think should work tends to backfire and often make things worse. Melina shares the example about the day care.
[34:49] Tim is a big fan of using non-monetary incentives in the corporate world.
[36:10] The best way to motivate team members is with their emotions and that is a non-monetary incentive.
[37:21] The group that was given gifts worked 30% more and delivered more effort, and created better results than the group that received cash.
[39:02] Every time you reconsume the gift it takes you right back to that great feeling of winning the item the first time.
[41:29] If you have employees and you are giving things away and you can retrigger the memory it increases motivation and draws out extra effort.
[43:16] Even if we buy something, it wouldn't mean nearly as much if we win it in a contest.
[46:07] Tim's band is back in songwriting and recording mode in their individual houses (now you get where the "grooves" of Behavioral Grooves podcast comes from!)
[48:19] Want to listen to what Melina is listening to while she is working? Check out her carefully curated "John Mayer Pandora Station" here: https://pandora.app.link/UrWQ28B6l3 .

Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.

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Master Your Mindset Mini-Course
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The 10 Behavioral Economics Concepts You Need To Know (and how to apply them) ebook
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Melina's John Mayer Pandora Station! Listen to what she listens to while working

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108. How To Start and Grow a Successful Podcast, Tips from a Behavioral Economist Jul 10, 2020

Show notes

2 years. 6 continents. 108 episodes. 162 countries. 207,000+ downloads.and this is just the beginning…

Today's episode honors the two year anniversary of the podcast with some celebration and my tips for starting and growing a successful podcast. The Brainy Business podcast launched with its first three episodes on Friday, July 6, 2018. We have had an episode every single week since then and never missed a Friday release or newsletter in those 2 years. Hooray!

That first month had 844 downloads, which I was incredibly excited about at that time! As you'll learn in this episode, my show actually hit the average podcast download numbers in that first month...and since then things have gone up and up. It took 483 days to hit the first 100,000 download milestone and less than half that time (only 237) to get the next hundred thousand. If pace stays the same we will be passing the quarter million mark around October, which is amazing as well! There have been listeners on every continent (minus Antarctica) and 162 countries. Shout out to the top downloaders! Not surprisingly, the US tops the list, followed by the UK, then Canada, Australia, India, Germany, Brazil, Mexico, Israel, and Spain rounds out the top 10. Coming in at 11 we have the Netherlands, followed by South Africa, Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, New Zealand, Switzerland, Singapore, United Arab Emirates, and France rounding out the top 20. Shout out to my friends in Canada! The top Canadian provinces by downloads are Ontario, followed by British Columbia and Alberta. And to those in the states, we still have a lot of the same top 10 with a fairly similar order: California has the most downloads followed by Washington, Texas, New York, Illinois, Florida, Georgia, Virginia and North Carolina. What has made the podcast successful, and what can you learn from my first two years in podcasting? That's what this episode is all about. I'll answer questions like: How long does it take to run a successful podcast? Do you really need to be weekly? How many downloads does the average podcast get? Do most podcasts make money? How should you strategically think about your cover art and podcast name? What the heck is podfade, and should you be concerned about it? All this and more covered in this week's episode…[PLUS my awesome Podcast Episode Best Practices Checklist is now available for preorder!] Show Notes:

[00:46] This week is the two year anniversary of The Brainy Business podcast, which launched with its first three episodes on Friday, July 6, 2018.
[01:38] There have been listeners in 162 countries.
[04:04] I appreciate each and every one of you who has ever interacted or connected with The Brainy Business.
[06:10] Podcasting is a growing medium, and just like any exciting new format it can feel like "everyone" has a podcast and that you "must" be there to be successful in business.
[07:24] If it isn't worth your time to be there and build it the right way, it probably isn't worth doing.
[09:39] Sure, I could spend less time preparing for each episode, but all those things are what make The Brainy Business successful.
[11:41] I did the research and invested in good audio from the beginning.
[13:45] Why is a podcast a good fit for your business model and how will it support the work you do?
[14:28] One other reason I started the show was to help people understand what behavioral economics even is and how it can apply to business.
[16:36] Knowing your goals before you jump in and create a podcast is incredibly important and should be used to determine how you set up the structure of your show.
[19:03] Clear, concise, targeted content can often take more time to create than something longer.
[20:35] Most podcasts don't get past episode seven.
[21:27] Podcast stats aren't as detailed as we would all like them to be.
[22:35] Most podcasts do not make money, and actually cost money.
[24:05] Podcast downloads are not a perfect science and the numbers look at the average after an episode has been live for 30 days.
[26:54] According to Libsyn, the hosting platform I and many other podcasters use, the average podcast episode has 141 downloads after 30 days. (As you saw in the intro, The Brainy Business was above this from the first month of launching the show, even though I didn't have a big list - the tips in this episode are a big reason why.) Preorder Your Podcast Episode Best Practices Checklist NOW
[28:22] Think about how you will stand out from competitors.
[28:56] Knowing which areas are searchable is important in helping people find you.
[30:45] Searchability and clear alignment to the topic was most important.
[32:43] The name and art should draw their eye and make them want to click to get to the next step of reading your full title and description and decide if they want to listen to an episode.
[33:38] If you are going to be investing in a podcast, it should be a main driver of business for you.
[36:06] In my opinion, it is almost not worth doing if you aren't going weekly.
[38:12] Start with your first three episodes and go live with them on the first day. This allows people to begin that binge listening and start forming that habit.
[39:46] It is more important to pick a day that works with your schedule so you can release great content on time every time than it is to be on the "perfect' day.
[41:12] For each episode, I come up with the topic and determine if it will be a guest or a solo episode. After I determine my topic I start doing my research and write the full script.
[41:51] After all the preparation, I then record using my ATR2100 mic into a system called Audacity. Then I submit to the team for editing and creating social media graphics and worksheets for the episode (using Canva).
[42:43] I listen to every single episode and review and edit the show notes before approving.
[43:26] I also create audiograms (using Headliner), set up the newsletter (Active Campaign) and write the social copy for all platforms.
[45:11] Spend an hour making a list of every topic you could possibly do an episode or post about. Break them up into smaller pieces, combine some together, list as many as you can.
[46:09] Write down ideas in bulk when you don't need them right away. It is much easier to come up with a bunch of topics when you don't need them. When it is for next week's show it is a lot harder to create a topic from scratch.

NOW AVAILABLE FOR PREORDER: Podcast Episode Best Practices Checklist

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Articles and Past Episodes:

107. How to Have Difficult Conversations About Race & Inequality: Interview with Kwame Christian Jul 03, 2020

Show notes

Today's episode features a discussion with Kwame Christian, host of the Negotiate Anything Podcast, with tips for having difficult conversations around racism, inequality, and more. Today is an especially important episode of the podcast, as it was inspired by the current landscape in the United States, which has grown to include global conversations around inequality and racism on all levels.

I'm not sure if you have noticed this, but in general, I make a very conscious effort to not be political or inflammatory on the podcast. It is my goal to be impartial whenever possible, and I debated for a long time about whether or not to do an episode on this topic. I didn't want to say more of the same stuff that was out there and wanted to make sure that the value was still tied to the intent of the podcast: applying brain and behavioral science into business. I had almost decided to not cover the topic when Brian Ahearn (whom I interviewed on episode 104 of the podcast) sent an email with a guest suggestion – a friend of his named Kwame Christian. Kwame is an attorney, negotiation expert with a background in psychology.

In our conversation today, Kwame will tell you about his three-step framework for negotiating anything, from 9-figure business deals to conversations with kids. He will also share how even though his personal and business credo is "The best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations," he was reluctant to be a voice in the Black Lives Matter movement, but once he stepped into the role with a virtual town hall, he has been featured in Forbes, CNBC, and USA Today. He is also one of the nicest guys around, and while his kind demeanor may seem counterintuitive in negotiating, I think it is his superpower (and it can be yours too with his great tips!)

Show Notes:

[00:52] Today is an especially important episode of the podcast, as it was inspired by the current landscape in the United States, around inequality and racism on all levels.
[01:24] It is my goal to be impartial whenever possible, and I debated for a long time about whether or not to do an episode on this topic.
[02:11] Kwame talks about the importance of compassionate curiosity, has a TED Talk on finding confidence in conflict, and incorporates details about how the brain works in his tips for how to have productive conversations.
[04:15] In our conversation today, Kwame will tell you about his three-step framework for negotiating anything, from 9-figure business deals to conversations with kids.
[06:14] His motto is, "The best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations."
[07:27] You can empathize without agreeing.
[09:29] The thing that drew him to negotiating was psychology.
[11:16] Kwame hosted a virtual town hall and expected a couple dozen attendees...over 1,000 people showed up to discuss having difficult conversations about race.
[12:19] Race is a difficult conversation, but an important one that we can't ignore anymore.
[14:39] There is a fear that often keeps people from saying anything at all.
[15:56] The majority of people want to get engaged, but don't know-how. His advice is to do something. Anything! One small thing at a time.
[17:01] We have to control the narrative for ourselves.
[17:57] There is something you can do. Just find one little thing and do it.
[19:15]The Compassionate Curiosity Framework is simple and flexible to use in different difficult situations
[20:20] The compassionate part is important because it helps to moderate your tone.
[22:01] The IKEA Effect is when we feel much more connected and are willing to overlook the flaws on something we built or created ourselves.
[24:09] Take the time and prethink difficult conversations as much as possible.
[26:53] He likes to use the gap theory of persuasion. The gap theory is using a compassionate tone but asking questions that show a gap in their understanding.
[28:54] Confirmation bias is so powerful, prevalent, and has an incredible impact.
[30:02] We often don't do the personal research because we want to avoid the emotional discomfort.
[32:06] With our subconscious brain running the show, it is able to process 11 million bits of information per second that it is constantly filtering what is making it to your conscious brain, that can only take 40 bits of information per second.
[35:03] You were placed in this system to see what you see from your perspective.
[36:05] This awakening doesn't feel good and often people experience that discomfort and pull back, worried it is a sign they are doing something wrong. It is actually a signal of growth.
[37:36] An example of the focusing illusion and we hate to see ourselves on video. Shifting your focus can help you find the one small thing you want to do each day.
[39:57] Kwame is often asked how to talk to kids about this sensitive topic. If you are not talking to your kids then other people are.
[40:36] We can use the Compassionate Curiosity Framework to talk with our kids also.
[41:46] We don't need to look at the outcome always in terms of tangible accomplishments.
[43:27] The entire goal of the first conversation could just be to open the door for more conversations.
[45:57] Being open to what the other side has to say and knowing that they don't need to be wrong in order for you to be right can help conversations go so much smoother.
[46:53] You can make a lot more progress with compassionate curiosity than with a plan to force someone to change their mind.

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