The Belt and Road Podcast

Latest Episodes:

Episode 50!! Grounded Understanding Within BRI / B3W "Competition" with Juliet & Erik Dec 15, 2021

Show notes

Juliet and Erik celebrate their 50th episode by discussing their first co-authored article "Beyond Competition: Why the BRI and the B3W Can’t and Shouldn’t Be Considered Rivals" (Rosa Luxemburg Stiftung)
On June 12, 2021, US President Biden along with the leaders of the Group of Seven (G7) launched their own “positive alternative” to the BRI - the Build Back Better for the World (B3W) multilateral infrastructure investment initiative. Juliet and Erik make the case that framing the two initiatives as competing alternatives is deceptive as on one hand, they are not comparable in many important ways, and that they each face the same challenges that all infrastructure initiatives face, regardless of the implementing country(ies).
Importantly, they also see that the focus on US-China competition distracts from the important role of host countries in directing how infrastructure investments unfold on the ground and that the focus on the geopolitics surrounding the two initiatives misrepresents their stakes for local communities and environments that are to be affected by these projects, the workers that will build them, and the people they will connect.

Recommendations:
Erik
1. I think you should leave with Tim Robinson
2. Party like it's 2003! Put away any screen that is connected to the internet and enjoy your evenings with friends in family in an analog world
Juliet
1. Last week tonight with John Oliver's analysis of the current state of Taiwan

Thanks for listening!

How Do Chinese Firms Approach Overseas Investment Risk? w/ Alvin Camba Sep 28, 2021

Show notes

On this episode Erik speaks with returning guest Dr. Alvin Camba about his latest research paper "How Chinese firms approach investment risk: strong leaders, cancellation, and pushback" (link to paper)
This groundbreaking research uses hundreds of in-depth interviews with top officials from China, Chinese SOEs, state-owned banks as well as Philippine and Indonesian political and economic elite to get a glimpse at how Chinese firms view the strength of a foreign leader, how that affects their investment decisions and how miscalculating strength can lead to undesirable outcomes for Chinese investors and/or State.
Alvin Camba is an assistant professor at the Josef Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver. He received his PhD in Sociology from Johns Hopkins University and is also a non-resident fellow at the Climate Policy Lab at the Fletcher School at Tufts University.
Recommendations
Alvin:
1. How Duterte Strong-Armed Chinese Dam-builders but weakened Philippine Institutions
2. How China Lends: A Rare look into 100 debt contracts with foreign governments. Anna Gelpern, Sebastian Horn, Scott Morris, Brad Parks, Christopher Trebesch at AIDDATA
Erik:
1. Get a treadmill desk!
2. The nihilistic electronic noise music of Pharmakon - specifically recommending the song No Natural Order

Thanks for listening!

The Continued Transformations of the Belt and Road Initiative w/ Jonathan Hillman Aug 16, 2021

Show notes

On the episode, Juliet and Erik speak with Senior Fellow and Director of the Reconnecting Asia Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, Jonathan E. Hillman. Jon discusses the BRI in a historical context and talks about the way he's seen the BRI shift since its inception in 2013. The interview is based on Jon's 2020 book The Emperor's New Road: China and the Project of the Century (Yale University Press -- Juliet's review of the book)
Recommendations:
Juliet:
1) Feature on the main takeaways of the 2020 China census, South China Morning Post
2) Sophia Yan at the Telegraph: Xinjiang reporting, Hong Kong Silenced
Erik:
1) China's Population Conundrum, Sinica podcast
2) an enthusiastic plea to come to North Dakota
Jon:
1) Reconnecting Asia, CSIS
2) A Swim in a Pond in the Rain, George Saunders, 2021

Thanks for listening!

Kristen Hopewell on Chinese Agricultural Trade, Emerging Powers, and the Battle Over Export Credit Jul 15, 2021

Show notes

On this episode, Juliet talks with Dr. Kristen Hopewell, the Canada Research Chair in Global Policy in the School of Public Policy and Global Affairs at the University of British Columbia. Also a Wilson China Fellow, Kristen's work sheds light on how international governing bodies like the WTO and OECD can influence and be influenced by growing Chinese agricultural trade, subsidies, and export credit, combined with the increasing exercise of power by emerging powers coming to the international forefront. Who wins and who loses?
Today's interview is based on:
1) Clash of Powers: US-China Rivalry in Global Trade Governance, Cambridge University Press, 2020
2) Breaking the WTO: How Emerging Powers Disrupted the Neoliberal Project, Stanford University Press, 2016
3) What is 'Made in China 2025' – and why is it a threat to Trump's trade goals?, Washington Post, 2018
Check out our recommendations!
Kristen: Essays of the Rise of China and its Implications, Wilson Center
Juliet: Food in China's international relations, D. Zha and H. Zhang, 2013
~Special thanks to Maggie Gaus, who joined the Belt and Road Pod team in Dec 2020 and edited this episode~

Thanks for listening!

The Belt and Road from Outer Space to Underground with Julie Klinger Jun 22, 2021

Show notes

On this episode Juliet and Erik speak with Dr. Julie Klinger about her research that smartly connects the seemingly disparate topics of geological surveying, Chinese domestic environmental and social movements, international infrastructure investments and China-Africa space cooperation. It's a fascinating discussion that you certainly don't want to miss!
Our interview is based on:
1) Julie's amazing book, Rare Earth Frontiers
2) "Environment, development, and security politics in the production of Belt and Road spaces" and
3) "China, Africa, and the Rest: recent trends in space science, technology, and satellite development."
Julie Klinger is an Assistant Professor in the University of Delaware’s Department of Geography & Spatial Sciences. She is associate director of the Minerals, Materials, and Society Program at U Delaware and co-facilitates the Embodiment Lab.
Here are this week's recommendations!
Juliet:
1) Hunger Games film, 2012 (significance of the three-finger salute)
2) Timothy McLaughlin's Atlantic articles discussing Myanmar
Erik:
1) Pekingology podcast, CSIS
2) Punisher, Phoebe Bridgers (especially the song aptly named Chinese Satellite), 2020
Julie:
1) Alie Ward's Ologies Podcast
2) The Disordered Cosmos: A Journey Into Dark Matter, Spacetime, and Dreams Deferred, Chanda Prescod-Weinstein, 2021
3) Intimate Geopolitics: Love, Territory, and the Future on India's Northern Threshold, Sara Smith, 2020
~Special thanks to Maggie Gaus, who joined the Belt and Road Pod team in Dec 2020 and edited this episode~

Thanks for listening!

An In-Depth Look at the Environmental Implications of the $2bn Ghana - Sinohydro Bauxite for Infrastructure Deal with Terrence Neal and Dr. Elizabeth Losos Apr 25, 2021

Show notes

In this episode, Erik is joined by Terrence Neal and Dr. Elizabeth Losos to discuss their recent report that uses Ghana's $2bn bauxite-for-infrastructure deal with Sinohydro as a case study to look into the environmental implications of BRI resource-financed infrastructure agreements.
Read the full report here: "The Environmental Implications of China-Africa Resource-Finance Infrastructure Agreements: Lessons Learned from Ghana's Sinohydro Agreement"
About the authors:
Terrence Neal is a natural resource governance researcher and current U.S. District court judicial law clerk. Terrence received his J.D. from Harvard Law School in 2019, and his Bachelor’s Degree in Public Policy from Duke University in 2015. His research focuses on international human rights law, international economic law, and natural resources governance.
Dr. Elizabeth Losos is a Senior Fellow at Duke University's Nicholas Institute for Environmental Policy Solutions.

Guest recommendations:
Elizabeth:
1) China’s Belt and Road: Implications for the United States, Council on Foreign Relations, March 2021.
Terrence:
1) Go outside and ride a bike!
Erik:
1) Twenty Years of Data on China’s Africa Lending, Kevin Acker and Deborah Brautigam, March 2021.
2) How China Lends: A Rare Look into 100 Debt Contracts with Foreign Governments, Anna Gelpern et al., March 2021.

~Special thanks to Maggie Gaus, who joined the Belt and Road Pod team in Dec 2020 and edited this episode~

Thanks for listening!

Kelly Chen on the Complexities of Politically Important Sovereign Debt Agreements within the BRI - A Case Study of the Laos-China Railway Mar 15, 2021

Show notes

Juliet and Erik talk with research assistant professor at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology - Kelly Chen about her latest publication on the effects of Chinese infrastructure aid in Laos: hidden labor struggles, subcontracting, equity, and how it all came to a head with the Trans-Laos Railway project. Kelly dives into Chinese international lending, economic geographies, and narratives about creditworthiness and power through this case study.
Read Kelly's work here:
Sovereign Debt in the Making: Financial Entanglements and Labor Politics along the Belt and Road in Laos
And here's an article by Kelly and Juliet for Panda Paw Dragon Claw:
From Pioneers to Brokers: How a diverse Chinese diaspora facilitates the Belt and Road in Laos
And check out our recommendations!
Erik:
1) Double recommendation for Sovereign Debt in the Making: Financial Entanglements and Labor Politics along the Belt and Road in Laos
2) Zojirushi rice cookers!

Kelly:
1) Biao Xiang: China's Global Migration in the New Millenium
2) Virtual Engagements on Global China Speaker Series
Juliet:
1) Maria Repnikova: No, The Chaos in America is Not a Gift to China and Russia

~Special thanks to Maggie Gaus, who joined the Belt and Road Pod team in Dec 2020 and edited this episode~

Thanks for listening!

Margaret Myers on China's “Multi-tiered” Approach in the Latin America and the Caribbean Region Feb 23, 2021

Show notes

On this episode, Juliet and Erik talk with Margaret Myers about the growing importance of Sub-national actors in China's geo-economic engagement in Latin America and the Caribbean.
Read the entire report "Going Local: An Assessment of China's Administrative-Level Activity in Latin America and the Caribbean" here
Margaret Myers is the director of the Asia & Latin America Program at the Inter-American Dialogue.
Recommendations:
Margaret:
- Yellowstone, Infrastructure Finance: The Business of Infrastructure for a Sustainable Future by Neil Grigg
Juliet:
- The Yongle Emperor @Imperial_Yongle and similarly the Chongzhen Emperor
@ChongzhenEmp - satirical China twitter accounts
-We, too: contending with the sexual politics of fieldwork in China - article in
Gender, Place & Culture by Mindi Schneider, Elizabeth Lord & Jessica Wilczak
Erik:
- The Paw Tracker Newsletter
- The Mandalorian
~Special thanks to Maggie Gaus, who joined the Belt and Road Pod team in Dec 2020 and edited this episode~

Thanks for listening!

Easy Money is Rarely Easy: Jessica Liao on Infrastructure Financing and Export Credit Agencies Jan 21, 2021

Show notes

China is not the only player in the infrastructure investment game. So how does China's rising engagement under the Belt and Road intersect with investments of other countries? Jessica Liao shares multiple examples in which China's engagement in infrastructure investments, as well as in other areas of export investment management (e.g. export credit agencies), provoke competition with and sometimes the weakening of standards among other investor countries.
Read the following articles by Jessica:
1) Panda Paw article "Easy Money and Political Opportunism: How China and Japan's High-Speed Rail Competition in Indonesia drives financially risky projects"
2) "Geoeconomics, easy money, and political opportunism: the Perils under China and Japan's high-Speed rail competition." (2020) by Jessica Liao & Saori Katada. Contemporary Politics
3) "The Club-based Climate Regime and OECD Negotiations on Restricting Coal-fired Power Export Finance" (2020) by Jessica Liao. Global Policy.
And check out our recommendations:
Jessica: China Goes Green: Coercive Environmentalism for a Troubled Planet by Yifei Li and Judith Shapiro
Juliet: Adam Smith in Beijing by Giovanni Arrighi
Erik: Hugh Hewitt's interview "The EXIM Bank: Now more than ever - Chairman Kimberly Reed makes the case to Hugh Hewitt"
~Special thanks to Maggie Gaus, who joined the Belt and Road Pod team in Dec 2020 and edited this episode~

Thanks for listening!

Harnessing Chinese Telecommunications Investments to Ethiopia's Benefit with Ding Fei Dec 31, 2020

Show notes

Countries along the Belt and Road face major strategic technical and political questions when considering Chinese assistance in the telecommunications field. In this episode, Dr. DingFei discusses two articles on Chinese telecoms investments in Ethiopia. Through the lenses of Ethiopian state-Chinese company negotiations as well as employment practices, she explains how Ethiopian actors have corralled Chinese company interests to better serve their priorities and put bounds on their dominance of the Ethiopian telecommunications system by introducing inter-firm competition.
See Dr. DingFei's relevant publications here:
1) Chinese Telecommunications Companies in Ethiopia: The Influences of Host Government Intervention and Inter-firm Competition. (2020) The China Quarterly
2) Employee Management Strategies of Chinese Telecommunications Companies in Ethiopia: Half-way Localization and Internationalization. (2020) Journal of Contemporary China
Check out our recommendations!
Ding
1) Africa's Shadow Rise: China and the Mirage of African Economic Development, Pádraig Carmody, Peter Kragelund, and Ricardo Reboredo, September 2020
Erik
1) Going Local: An Assessment of China’s Administrative-Level Activity in Latin America and the Caribbean, Margaret Myers, December 2020
2) How To with John Wilson, HBO
Juliet
1) Media Politics in China: Improvising Power Under Authoritarianism, Maria Repnikova, June 2017
~Special thanks to Maggie Gaus, who joined the Belt and Road Pod team in Dec 2020 and edited this episode~

Thanks for listening!

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