Stay ConnectedIn The Back of the Book, host Christopher J. Scalia interviews writers, scholars, and other expert guests about culture and the arts.
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Chris is joined by Michael Clune, a professor at the Ohio State University’s Salmon P. Chase Center for Civics, Culture, and Society, and the author of the excellent new novel, Pan. They discuss some of the themes and ideas underlying Pan, as well as Michael’s vision of literary scholarship and its place in the modern university.
Show notes:
Chris is joined by Brendan O’Meara, the founder and host of the Creative Nonfiction Podcast and author of a great new biography, The Front Runner: The Life of Steve Prefontaine. They discuss the life of American distance running legend Steve Prefontaine (a.k.a. “Pre”), including his childhood, the highs and lows of his running career, his untimely death, and his legacy.
Show notes:
· Brendan’s new book, The Front Runner: The Life of Steve Prefontaine
· The 1972 Olympic 5000m final
· Without Limits, the 1998 Prefontaine biopic
Time stamps:
1:33 Early life in Coos Bay, Oregon
10:35 Entrée into running and rise to stardom
20:57 Pre’s character, on and off the track
30:43 College career and “Pre’s people”
35:30 1972 Olympics
43:20 Post-Olympic comeback and fight against the AAU
50:09 Death and legacy
Opening and closing music: Brendan Benson, “Spit It Out,” used with permission from the artist.
Produced by Sean Doolan and S. Lillywhite.
Chris is joined by Cassandra Nelson, an affiliate fellow in literature at the Lumen Center in Madison, Wisconsin, an associate fellow at the University of Virginia’s Institute for Advanced Studies in Culture, and the author of A Theology of Fiction (Wiseblood Books, 2025). They discuss the life and thought of Sr. Mariella Gable, a Benedictine nun who had an under-appreciated influence on Catholic literary fiction during the 20th century. They also talk about the relationship between theology and literature, the work of Betty Wahl and J.F. Powers, and more. Show notes:
Chris is joined by his AEI colleague Thomas Chatterton Williams, whose latest book Summer of Our Discontent: The Age of Certainty and the Demise of Discourse was published earlier this month. The two discuss Thomas’s analysis of the events and ideas that led to the protests, riots, and all-around madness of the summer of 2020; cancel culture and the importance of free expression; the concept of race and its relation to cultural heritage; and more.
Show notes:
Chris is joined by Jennifer Frey, professor of philosophy in the department of philosophy & religion at The University of Tulsa, and former Dean of the Honors College at TU. They discuss the university’s recent decision to eliminate her position as dean and restructure the Honors College, the power dynamics at play within university governance, and the value of liberal education more broadly.
· Jennifer’s X thread announcing her departure as Dean
· Jennifer’s New York Times essay recounting her experience
· Lee Trepanier’s response to Jennifer’s essay
· Stanley Fish’s essay in The Lamp, and Jennifer’s response to it
Time stamps:
1:12 Jennifer’s introduction and professional background
4:52 Jennifer’s success with the University of Tulsa’s Honors College
20:11 Why TU’s administration killed the Honors College
25:24 Structural shortcomings of university governance
35:29 Liberal education and the datafication of the university
43:07 Higher education as the pursuit of wisdom
Opening and closing music: Brendan Benson, “Spit It Out,” used with permission from the artist.
Chris talks to Ronnie A. Grinberg, associate professor of history at the University of Oklahoma, about the anti-communist Jewish intellectuals who helped shape post-war American culture and politics. How did this remarkable group of writers—which included such prominent figures as Lionel Trilling, Diana Trilling, Irving Howe, Midge Decter, and Norman Podhoretz—take shape? What were their various opinions about topics like communism, feminism, and masculinity? How do their ideas continue to inform our political and cultural discourse?
Find out more about Ronnie’s new book, Write Like a Man: Jewish Masculinity and the New York Intellectuals, here.
This episode is brought to you by 13 Novels Conservatives Will Love (but Probably Haven’t Read)
Ross Benes, author of 1999: The Year Low Culture Conquered America and Kickstarted Our Bizarre Times, joins Chris to explain how professional wrestling, video games, a face-painted hip-hop duo, and other low culture from 26 years ago can help us understand where we are today.
Show Notes:
· Ross’s website: https://www.rossbenes.com/
· Ross on X: https://x.com/rossbenes?lang=en
· Chris’s book: https://www.amazon.com/Novels-Conservatives-Will-Probably-Havent/dp/1510782397
In this special episode, the poet and critic Dana Gioia delivers a talk titled “Conservatives and Culture: A Failure of Imagination.” Recorded as a part of AEI’s American Dream Lecture Series, Gioia’s talk is an important assessment of why the right abdicated the arts, the disastrous consequences of that withdrawal—and how conservatives can reclaim the relevance they once had in American culture. “Conservatives need to have the skill and courage to live by their own values,” Gioia says. “It’s time for us to dare to say yes.” After his talk, Dana joined Chris for a conversation to dig deeper into the topic and fielded questions from the audience at AEI. Don’t miss it!
Show Notes:
· Video of the event
· Dana Gioia’s website
· Chris’s review of Dana’s poetry collection, Meet Me at the Lighthouse
· Oh, and Chris’s book, 13 Novels Conservatives Will Love (but Probably Haven’t Read)!
Opening and closing music: Brendan Benson, “Spit It Out,” used with permission from the artist.
Chris introduces his brand-new book, 13 Novels Conservatives Will Love (but Probably Haven’t Read). Why should conservatives—or anyone—bother reading fiction? How did Chris select the novels to write about? And which ones did he choose, anyway? The answers to these questions, and many others, are finally revealed!
Show Notes:
Chris in The Dispatch: “Why Conservatives—and Everyone Else—Should Read Novels”
Chris in The Washington Examiner: “Zora Neale Hurston and the Fate of the Black Conservative”
The Ricochet boys talk to Chris about the book: “A Novel Approach”
Opening and closing music: Brendan Benson, “Spit It Out,” used with permission from the artist.
Best-selling author Rod Dreher talks to Chris about his latest book, Living in Wonder: Finding Mystery and Meaning in a Secular Age. Rod explains why we’ve lost the ability to see the transcendent around us and how we can rediscover enchantment. What do UFO’s, demons, and beauty have to do with this? Listen and find out!Show Notes:
Chris’s brother, Father Paul Scalia, joins the show to discuss the significance of Holy Thursday, Good Friday, and Easter, and how Catholics in particular celebrate this most important (and for priests, most exhausting) week in the liturgical calendar. Father Scalia also recounts his road to the priesthood, shares his favorite Christian apologists and novelists, and discusses the state of the Catholic Church in America.
Show Notes:
· Father Scalia’s books: That Nothing May be Lost: Reflections on Catholic Doctrine and Devotion; Sermons in Times of Crisis: Twelve Homilies to Stir Your Soul (editor)
· Father Scalia at The Catholic Thing
· Chris’s book, 13 Novels Conservatives Will Love (but Probably Haven’t Read), available to order now!
Opening and closing music: Brendan Benson, “Spit It Out,” used with permission from the artist.
Chris talks to Fisher Derderian, founder and executive director of the Roger Scruton Legacy Foundation, about how politics and patronage shape American art. How did the CIA use abstract expressionism as a cultural weapon during the Cold War? How have culture-shaping institutions and public funds moved from supporting artistic greatness to enforcing political compliance? How can more supporters of cultural excellence reform existing institutions—and create their own? Plus, Fisher shares his thoughts about the great Sir Roger Scruton.
Show Notes:
· Fisher’s Substack, Dux Culturae
· Fisher’s non-profit, The Roger Scruton Legacy Foundation
· The art of Jacob Collins and the Grand Central Atelier
· Oh, and Chris’s book, 13 Novels Conservatives Will Love (but Probably Haven’t Read), is available to pre-order on Amazon!
This episode is brought to you by BizniCorps: navigating enterprise solutions for greater value-add! Special thanks to AEI’s Maggie Obriwin for making the last ten minutes sound less like a lo-fi indie record from the early 2000s.
Opening and closing music: Brendan Benson, “Spit It Out,” used with permission from the artist.
Tevi Troy, a senior fellow at the Ronald Reagan Institute, talks to Chris about his books The Power and the Money: The Epic Clashes Between Commanders in Chief and Titans of Industry (Regnery History, 2024) and What Jefferson Read, Ike Watched, Obama Tweeted: 200 Years of Popular Culture in the White House (Regnery History, 2013). Tevi explains how different titans of the entertainment industry—the Warner brothers, Lew Wasserman, and Oprah Winfrey—developed and used relationships with such presidents as FDR, Reagan, and Obama. He also considers the different ways Joe Biden and Donald Trump have engaged with popular culture to develop their images and connect with voters. Plus, how did Tevi go from earning a PhD in American Civilization to working in the White House to becoming a presidential historian?
Show Notes:
Megan Gafford joins Chris to discuss some of her recent writing about the fate of architecture in the 20th century. Art Deco was a beautiful, ornamental style that thrived in the United States in the 1920s and ‘30s. What happened to it—why did modernism displace it and what did we lose in the process? Plus, why do manifestos and fanaticism spoil art? Megan and Chris also discuss the architectural writings of Tom Wolfe, the new film The Brutalist, and why beauty matters in even the bleakest times.
Show Notes:
· Megan’s Substack, Fashionably Late Takes—don’t miss “‘America Was Supposed to be Art Deco’: When America abandoned beauty.”
· Tom Wolfe, “The Building That Isn’t There” Part 1 & Part 2 (New York Times)
· Follow Megan on TwitterX: @megan_gafford This episode is brought to you by the Gaza Largo Club—the Crown Jewel of Palestine!
Opening and closing music: Brendan Benson, “Spit It Out,” used with permission from the artist.
Novelist Aaron Gwyn joins the show to discuss the fiction of Cormac McCarthy. Why is McCarthy’s Blood Meridian a great American novel? What does Gwyn make of recent revelations about McCarthy’s personal life? Plus, Gwyn reads from and discusses his compelling new novella, The Cannibal Owl. What is the history, and what are the Comanche traditions, behind the work? Gwyn, who teaches creative writing and contemporary literature at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, also discusses how students have changed over the past twenty years, the most important advice he gives young writers, and his favorite Van Halen album.
This episode is brought to you by the Gaza Largo Club—the Crown Jewel of Palestine!
Show Notes:
· “What Is the Best Work of American Fiction of the Last 25 Years?” (New York Times)
· Aaron Gwyn’s course lectures on McCarthy’s Blood Meridian
· Harold Bloom talks to Brian Lamb about Blood Meridian (C-SPAN)
· B.R. Myers on Cormac McCarthy’s “andelopes”
· “Cormac McCarthy’s Secret Muse Breaks Her Silence After Half a Century: ‘I Loved Him. He Was My Safety.’” (Vanity Fair)
· Aaron Gwyn’s novella, The Cannibal Owl (Belle Point Press)
· Method & Madness Podcast with Aaron Gwyn and Brad Kelly
· Follow Aaron on TwitterX: @AmericanGwyn
Opening and closing music: Brendan Benson, “Spit It Out,” used with permission from the artist.
Author Ward Farnsworth joins Chris to discuss his Classical English series, as well as his books on Stoicism and the Socratic Method. What—and how—can we learn from the style, rhetoric, and argument of great writers from the long 19th century? How are the ancient Stoics comparable to modern cognitive psychologists? And how can the Socratic method be an antidote for stupidity? Plus, Chris explains his father’s theory of the Shakespeare Principle.
Ward Farnsworth is professor and W. Page Keeton Chair at the University of Texas Law School. He’s the author the Farnsworth Classical English series, which comprises Farnsworth’s Classical Rhetoric, Classical English Metaphor, Classical English Style, and most recently, Classical English Argument. He is also the author of The Socratic Method and The Practicing Stoic.
Show Notes:
Ward’s author page on Amazon.
Chris’s review of Ward’s most recent book, Classical English Argument.
Special thanks to our sponsor, Eckleburg Optometry: from West Egg to West Hollywood, the giant eyes of Doctor T. J. Eckleburg keep their vigil.
Opening and closing music: Brendan Benson, “Spit It Out,” used with permission from the artist.
Chris’s guest is the poet and fiction writer Sally Thomas, who shares a few of her poems and discusses some of her stories. Sally and Chris also talk about her development as a writer, why she enjoys writing formal poetry, and what she does when her short-story characters won’t leave her alone.
Sally is the author of The Blackbird and Other Stories (Wiseblood, 2024) and the forthcoming poetry collection Among the Living (Able Muse Press, TBA). She also co-edits the Poems Ancient and Modern Substack and co-edited Christian Poetry in America Since 1940 (Paraclete Press, 2022).
Show Notes
Here are the poems Sally read during the conversation:
Chris talks to philosophy professor and competitive trail, road, and ultramarathon runner Sabrina B. Little about virtue ethics, athletics, and her book The Examined Run: Why Good People Make Better Runners. How can distance running—and sports in general—form us into virtuous people? Conversely, what vices can they shape? What does it mean to live the good life? And what’s so bad about “no pain, no gain,” anyway? Thanks to Pre-Pro Guardians for sponsoring this episode.
· Sabrina’s book, The Examined Run: Why Good People Make Better Runners
· That awful Nike ad.
· Chris’s recent essay about how the classical virtue of prudence plays out in a classic novel, Walter Scott’s Redgauntlet.
Opening and closing music: Brendan Benson, “Spit It Out,” used with permission from the artist.
Chris speaks to Keith O’Brien about the life and legacy of Pete Rose. O’Brien is the author of Charlie Hustle: The Rise and Fall of Pete Rose, and the Last Glory Days of Baseball (Pantheon, 2024). Keith interviewed Rose for his remarkable book and has insights about the legend you won’t hear from anyone else. At the top of the episode, Chris shares his memories of Pete Rose, who died on September 30. Then Keith joins to tell us about how Rose, um, rose to fame, what he accomplished on the field, how he descended into the gambling addiction that ruined him. And of course, Keith and Chris discuss that perennial question: does Rose belong in the Hall of Fame? (Chris shared his opinion in the Wall Street Journal.)
Thanks to this episode’s sponsor: The all-new BrokeBros gambling gaming app, the latest way to make baseball more exciting! With BrokeBros, you’re never far away from making a reckless financial decision!
Opening and closing music: Brendan Benson, “Spit It Out,” used with permission from the artist.
The sketch comedy show Saturday Night Live is about to embark on its 50th season. How has the show lasted so long? How has it reflected and shaped our culture? Who are its best cast members, what are its funniest sketches, and who or what’s been over- or underrated? Find out during Chris’s conversation with Scot Bertram and Christian Schneider, the co-hosts of “Wasn’t That Special: 50 Years of Saturday Night Live,” a podcast dedicated to the show’s history.
Show notes:
Saturday Night Live, “More Cowbell”
Chris Farley as Matt Foley (which Chris should have told Scot is a close challenger to “more cowbell.”)
Christian Schneider, “Saturday Night Live Will Tell You the Future” (National Review)
Wasn’t That Special’s interview with former SNL cast member Victoria Jackson
Opening and closing music: “Spit It Out” by Brendan Benson, used with permission from the artist.
Father Damian Ference, a Catholic priest of the Diocese of Cleveland, joins Chris to discuss his new book, Understanding the Hillbilly Thomist: The Philosophical Foundations of Flannery O’Connor’s Narrative Art.
What did the great American novelist and short-story writer mean when she called herself a “hillbilly Thomist”—how did the thirteenth-century Catholic philosopher shape her art?
Father Damian and Chris also discuss a compelling new movie about Flannery O’Connor, as well as a recent letter from Pope Francis about the moral value of reading literature.
Understanding the Hillbilly Thomist | Fr. Damian Ference | Word on Fire
Flannery for the Faithful and the Unfamiliar | Chris Scalia | Washington Free Beacon
Capturing a Misfit: A Review of “Wildcat” | Fr. Damian Ference | Word on Fire
The Presence of Grace and Other Book Reviews by Flannery O'Connor | University of Georgia Press
Letter of His Holiness Pope Francis on the Role of Literature in Formation
Pope Francis's Apologia for Literature | Chris Scalia | National Review Online
Opening and closing music: “Spit It Out” by Brendan Benson, used with permission from the artist.
Chris talks to AEI Senior Fellow and Commentary columnist Christine Rosen about her new book, The Extinction of Experience: Being Human in a Disembodied World.
How have new technologies shaped our interactions with each other and the physical world? Have they changed our understanding of what it means to be human? Plus, Christine talks about her favorite science fiction.
Links
Keats: “Ode on Indolence”
Drew Gilpin Faust: “Gen Z Never Learned to Read Cursive” (The Atlantic)
Commentary podcast: “Our Favorite Science Fiction”
Ray Bradbury’s fiction (Library of America)
Sunny on Apple TV+
Thanks to our sponsors: X-Caps xtosterone supplements and SeeChange from Circle Tech.Opening and closing music: “Spit It Out” by Brendan Benson, used with permission from the artist.
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