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The Allender Center Podcast — Christianity
The Allender Center Podcast

The Allender Center Podcast features Dr. Dan Allender and his team engaging topics on healing and restoration through the unique intersection of theology and psychology. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join us to gain refreshing insight into understanding your story, handling relational struggles, recovering from trauma and abuse, and more.

The mission of The Allender Center is to help people tell their stories with awareness and integrity, and to train them to listen to the stories of others with care, artistry, and skill so that they may foster redemption and healing in their lives. The Allender Center is a pioneering organization committed to boldly engaging the impact of trauma and abuse, providing healing and teaching to individuals, couples, and communities, and training professionals to listen and enter into stories in a way that facilitates transformation and hope. For information on all our programs and live events, visit theallendercenter.org

Latest Episodes:

A Sabbath Summer, Part 2: Play, Disappointment, and Daring to Hope Jul 18, 2025

Show notes

Last week, we talked about dreaming—giving ourselves permission to hope for delight and rest this summer. But what happens when those dreams meet reality?

In Part 2 of the Sabbath Summer series, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen explore the tension between desire and disappointment—the beautiful and the broken that live side by side in us, in others, and in the world. Because Sabbath isn't just about dreaming and planning. It's about participating. Living into the play.

But here's the truth: Things rarely go exactly as we imagined. Disappointment is often inevitable. And delight—true delight—often comes not in spite of brokenness, but within it.

This episode is a deep invitation to stay in the story even when plans unravel. Dan and Rachael reflect on the paradox of Sabbath as a commandment that calls us not just to rest, but to remember what we're fighting for: connection, restoration, joy, and relationship—with ourselves, each other, and with God.

Sabbath isn't an escape from the world's urgency—it's a radical act of resistance and reconstruction within it.

As you listen, consider: How might you make space this summer not just for fun, but for redemptive play—play that embraces imperfection, disappointment, and still dares to hope?

*This episode contains some explicit language. Listener discretion is advised.

A Sabbath Summer, Part 1: Anticipating Rest Jul 11, 2025

Show notes

What if Sabbath isn't just a day on your calendar—but a mindset you carry with you into every part of your life?

In the first bite-sized episode of our 3-part summer series, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen invite us to anticipate rest and play, not just plan for it.

They explore how Sabbath can be more than a scheduled pause—it can be a rhythm woven into your days, your relationships, even a quiet afternoon on the porch.

Can you give yourself permission to imagine delight this summer—without immediately turning it into a to-do list? And how do we hold space for the parts of us that know disappointment, that fear the desire might not be fulfilled?

This episode is an invitation to lean into your summer not with pragmatism, but with anticipation—allowing hope, imagination, and Sabbath delight to shape what's possible.

Whether you're planning a vacation, navigating a full house, or just trying to find 30 minutes of quiet—we hope this 3-part series will encourage you to pause, reflect, and imagine a new way of being present.

The Dynamics of DARVO Jul 03, 2025

Show notes

DARVO—"Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender"—is a powerful manipulation tactic often used to silence those who speak up about harm. In this episode, Dan and Rachael unpack how DARVO shows up not only in personal relationships but also in churches, politics, and other systems where power is protected at all costs.

Together, they explore the deep psychological and spiritual impact of DARVO, particularly in narcissistic relationships or systems. Drawing from Dr. Jennifer Freyd's work on betrayal trauma, they name the disorientation, grief, and exile that often follow when someone dares to speak what is true.

What happens when cruelty masquerades as righteousness? When loyalty is measured by silence? This conversation holds space for those heartbreaks—and offers fierce, grounded hope.

In a culture that often gaslights those who cry out for justice, Dan and Rachael remind us: love, truth, and healing are not just possible—they are sacred acts of resistance. And it's not something we confront alone. With the presence of wise, compassionate others—therapists, pastors, friends, and communities of care—we can learn to trust what is true, reclaim our voice, and boldly participate in the redemptive work of love.

How to Bring Story Work to Your Faith Community with Petra Malekzadeh Jun 27, 2025

Show notes

What does it take to cultivate real transformation in a faith community? Not just busier programs or better Bible studies, but real change – mind, body, and soul?

In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen talk with Petra Malekzadeh, Facilitation Development Manager at the Allender Center, about what it looks like to bring story work into the life of a local church.

Drawing on her years of ministry leadership and her training in Narrative Focused Trauma Care®, Petra shares both the challenges and beauty of inviting people to engage their stories as part of discipleship. Listen in to explore:

Why story work belongs at the heart of spiritual formation
The importance of leadership buy-in and shared language
How to navigate resistance and build trust
What becomes possible when vulnerability is honored

This conversation invites you to imagine a church where story work isn't a side ministry—it's how we grow into the people God is calling us to be.

"Heaven Help Us" with John Kasich Jun 20, 2025

Show notes

If you like a good story, we think you'll like this episode.

This week, we're honored to welcome John Kasich—a national leader, lifelong public servant, and gifted storyteller. Throughout his career, he's met thousands of people, and he's here to share just a few of the stories that have stayed with him.

As the 69th Governor of Ohio (2011–2019), Gov. Kasich led with a focus on unity and problem-solving. He rose to national prominence during his 2016 presidential run and continues to serve today through his work with the Kasich Company, his role as a political analyst for NBC and MSNBC, and as the author of several New York Times bestsellers.

His latest book, Heaven Help Us: How Faith Communities Inspire Hope, Strengthen Neighborhoods, and Build the Future, is the heart of this week's conversation.

John shares some of his personal journey—including how the sudden loss of his parents in a car accident became a life-altering moment. He also invites us into the deeply moving stories from his new book—stories of ordinary people in churches, synagogues, and mosques doing extraordinary work to serve their neighbors. These aren't just heartwarming accounts; they're powerful reminders of how faith can drive tangible, lasting change.

This conversation moves quickly—so we encourage you to grab a copy of Heaven Help Us and spend time with these stories yourself.

Join us for a conversation full of hope, challenge, and inspiration—about what's possible when we come together, rooted in faith, to love our neighbors and build a better world.

"Experience Jesus. Really." with John Eldredge Jun 13, 2025

Show notes

We're living in a time that's quietly—but profoundly—reshaping our souls.

Formed by a world of speed, efficiency, and endless information, most of us have been trained to seek quick answers, avoid ambiguity, and live with the belief that if we just do X, then Y will happen. It's not our fault—we've been discipled by our cultural moment, where data is king and mystery is often treated with suspicion.

In the process, many of us have come to approach faith with an overdeveloped left brain—craving clarity and control, while growing uncomfortable with the unknown, the mystical, the experiential. And yet… something deeper in us still longs for more.

In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender is joined by psychologist and New York Times Bestselling Author John Eldredge to explore the themes of John's new book, "Experience Jesus. Really." Together, they offer a timely, tender invitation: to recover a life with God that is not only true, but felt—a life rooted in presence, wonder, and communion.

This conversation explores:

Why our modern world makes it hard to access the presence of God
The invitation to become an "ordinary mystic"—someone who experiences God from the inside out
What it means to live as an "amphibious" being, rooted in both the physical and spiritual
How the presence of Jesus brings refuge, healing, and integration—especially in trauma
Why this isn't just for the spiritual elite—but for all of us, here and now

John draws from the wisdom of Christian mystics, scripture, and his own story to illuminate what it means to truly walk with Jesus today—in your body, your story, and your real life.

If you've ever found yourself saying, "I want to experience more of God, but I don't know how"—we invite you to listen to this episode.

Listener Resources:

Be sure to check out John Eldredge's latest book, "Experience Jesus. Really." here: https://wildatheart.org/books/experience-jesus-really
Revisit the webinar, "The Power of Jesus in Therapeutic Practice" with Dan Allender and John Eldredge, to discover how to authentically integrate best practices with the healing power and loving care of God in your therapy practice: https://online.theallendercenter.org/courses/stories-that-shape-us-the-power-of-jesus-in-therapeutic-practice

"Saving Face" with Aimee Byrd Jun 06, 2025

Show notes

Have you ever felt unseen in a place where you were supposed to be known? Or like the more you tried to bring your true self forward, the more you were asked to hide it?

Today on the podcast, author Aimee Byrd joins Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to talk about her new book, Saving Face: Finding My Self, God, and One Another Outside a Defaced Church.

It's a deeply personal and theological reflection on spiritual abuse, identity, and healing—especially in the wake of church systems that no longer reflect the face of Christ.

Together, they explore what it means to reclaim your face—your personhood, your story, your sacred calling. Aimee draws on the rich insight of philosopher Emmanuel Levinas, who wrote that the face is not merely a physical feature, but the place where we encounter both God and one another. To truly see another's face is to take responsibility for their dignity and to recognize Christ's presence there.

Aimee shares her story of how a system that promised reform instead left her mocked, erased, and dehumanized. In that disillusionment, she came to a painful but powerful realization: we don't just need reform. We need resurrection. A death to false forms of power, toxic moralism, and spiritual posturing—and a return to humility, presence, and love.

This conversation offers an honest look at the loneliness of holding onto your God-given identity when others turn away, the courage it takes to seek the face of God in others, and the deep hope that emerges when we begin to see—and be seen—face to face.

Listen to this week's episode about "Saving Face" with Aimee Byrd, and be sure to pick up a copy of her book at: https://aimeebyrd.com/saving-face/

Trauma, Addiction, and the Twelve Steps – Part 2 with Ian Morgan Cron May 30, 2025

Show notes

What if your first addiction wasn't to a substance, but to someone's approval?

In part two of our conversation with Ian Morgan Cron, we go deeper into the cycle of addiction, codependency, and the hope of recovery. Whether you're struggling with a relationship, a habit, a performance-driven mindset, or just the weight of trying to "be good," this episode offers a profound invitation: transformation doesn't come from trying harder—it comes from surrender.

You'll hear stories about the power of the 12 Steps, why spiritual awakening matters more than willpower, and how our early longings for love and safety often become tangled in the behaviors we're desperate to change. We talk about ministry, leadership, trauma, boundaries, and what it really means to carry your healing into the lives of others.

This isn't a conversation about fixing people—it's about engaging your own story so you can show up with greater freedom, compassion, and clarity.

Take a breath, take a listen. We hope you'll hear something that helps you come home to yourself.

You can order Ian's new book here: https://ianmorgancron.com/thefix

Please Note: This episode contains some mature language; listener discretion is advised.

Trauma, Addiction, and the Twelve Steps – Part 1 with Ian Morgan Cron May 23, 2025

Show notes

Underneath every addiction is a deeper ache—and a surprising path to healing.

Bestselling author, therapist, and Episcopal priest Ian Morgan Cron joins Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to share insights from his newest book, The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between.

Ian invites us to reconsider the Twelve Steps—not just as a recovery tool for addicts, but as a grace-filled path of spiritual awakening for anyone longing for freedom, connection, and intimacy with God.

This conversation is for everyone—not just those who identify as alcoholics or addicts. As Ian says, these steps offer healing to people who struggle with all kinds of attachments and compulsions: workaholism, people-pleasing, tech and porn addiction, codependency, control, food, spending, approval, sports betting… the list goes on. Ian points out that most of us are poly-addicted, caught in multiple patterns that disconnect us from God, ourselves, and each other.

So this isn't about comparing struggles or measuring severity. It's about asking: Do I want to be free? Do I want to live with more honesty, grace, and surrender?

Whether or not you think you "need" the Steps, this conversation is a compassionate, humorous, and deeply spiritual invitation to let go of self-reliance and move toward the healing you were made for.

Listen to Part 1 now, and be sure to come back next week for Part 2. In the meantime, you can order Ian's new book here: https://ianmorgancron.com/thefix

Please Note: This episode contains some mature language; listener discretion is advised.

"How to Guard Against Sexism and Abuse in Christian Communities" with Dr. Andrew J. Bauman May 16, 2025

Show notes

What happens when a woman names harm in her church community—and instead of support, she's met with silence, suspicion, or even exile?

Too often, the church's response to abuse and inequity reveals a painful truth: that protecting systems has taken precedence over protecting people.

In this powerful and layered conversation, Dr. Andrew J. Bauman joins Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to confront the realities explored in Andrew's new book Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism and Abuse in Christian Communities.

Together, they discuss:

The cost many women pay for speaking up: isolation, lost community, and spiritual disillusionment
How even "progressive" churches can harbor subtle patterns of power and control
The stark data that exposes ongoing gender inequity in ministry
The personal stories that bring this reality to life—and why representation matters
What a truly safe and equitable church could look like

This is not just a conversation about what's broken—it's a call to build something better. A church where truth is welcomed, not silenced. Where policies protect the vulnerable. Where power is shared, not hoarded. And where the sacred image of God in women is honored, nurtured, and empowered.

Whether you're a survivor, a leader, or someone wrestling with disillusionment, this episode offers a brave and hopeful vision of what the church can become—if we have the courage to tell the truth and move toward change.

Related Resources:

Order your copy of Dr. Andrew J. Bauman's SAFE CHURCH: How to Guard Against Sexism & Abuse in Christian Communities.
Listen to the Allender Center Podcast episode: "Connections Between Spiritual and Sexual Abuse"
Continue to learn with these self-paced online courses from the Allender Center: Spiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course and the Healing the Wounded Heart Online Course

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