Government
**The AI Power Podcast**

Understand everything that’s going on in AI Policy and how AI impacts the world. Hosted by Gregory C. Allen.

If you work in AI policy — or you’re just fascinated by it — this is the podcast for you. Every week, The AI Power Podcast unpacks the developments that actually mattered: AI regulation, safety, economic policy, US–China competition, semiconductor export controls, and national security. Think of it as drinks after work with the smart friend who tells you what’s really going on, and what might actually work, in plain English.

Plus interview episodes — long-form conversations with the policymakers, builders, executives, and analysts shaping artificial intelligence and the global power competition built around it.

Latest Episodes:

How China Got 340 DUVi Lithography Machines and Why We Should Stop Selling Them with Saif Khan and Nick Brown Oct 19, 2026

Show notes

Saif Khan, founding director of the Center for Technology and Statecraft (CTS), and Nick Brown, CTS co-founder and senior fellow, join Gregory C. Allen to unpack their landmark 100+ page report, DUV Immersion Lithography: The Foundation of the US AI Advantage: Closing Gaps in Export Controls to China. Their central finding is that EUV gets the headlines, but the older immersion DUV machines are what China actually uses to make AI chips. China’s stockpile has grown from roughly 50–100 immersion tools in October 2022 to around 340 today. It imported about 90 a year in 2024 and 2025, close to two-thirds of ASML’s global immersion market.

They explain why ASML’s NXT:1980, which can be legally exported to China, is the machine to watch. They also cover how etch and deposition controls are masking the full power of China’s lithography stockpile, and why Chinese indigenization announcements, including the new 28nm prototype, don’t change the strategic picture before the 2030s. Then they lay out their scenario models. Even in an extreme case, China’s current stockpile can’t match US AI chip production through 2035, but continued imports could close the gap or even tip it. Finally, Saif and Nick make the case for a countrywide ban on immersion DUV, the levers the US could pull without new legislation, and what the MATCH Act in the Senate NDAA could mean for the fight.

Read the report at techstatecraft.org/duv.

Chapters

00:00 – 05:35: Meet the Center for Technology and Statecraft and the people behind the report
05:35 – 08:22: What immersion DUV is, and why it matters more than EUV for China’s AI chips
08:22 – 12:56: From Cold War controls to ASML’s near-monopoly: how lithography export controls evolved
12:56 – 17:29: The counterfactual: where would Huawei and SMIC be without EUV controls?
17:29 – 22:45: Three tiers of DUV, the NXT:1980 loophole, and why countrywide beats case-by-case licensing
22:45 – 25:18: What if the US had banned all immersion DUV in 2022? From 50+ machines to ~340
25:18 – 30:02: Why China hasn’t yet unlocked the full power of its lithography stockpile
30:02 – 37:26: Can China build its own? Prototype, commercialization, scale-up, and the 2030s
37:26 – 45:40: The scenario models: when stockpile alone isn’t enough, and when imports tip the balance
45:40 – 50:13: Flops per gigawatt, 90 machines a year, and 100,000 Huawei chips per tool
50:13 – 55:11: Monday morning at BIS: allied controls, light sources, FDPR, de minimis, and the MATCH Act
55:11 – 55:27: Where to find the report

Trump likes mandatory AI regulation for America but not China? + Anthropic defeats distillation Oct 15, 2026

Show notes

Jack Conlin and Gregory Allen examine how a new AI incident led to a shift in AI safety policy from the White House’s Super Intelligence Task Force, and CAISSI gets more direct access to the White House.
Greg and Jack discuss the landmark shift in AI policy that takes safety more seriously, but still fails to address the growing risk of Chinese models. Then, Anthropic reports it has stopped distillation from 90-99% of attempts, cutting off a core avenue that feeds Chinese AI development. Will this milestone prove to be durable, and how will it affect US AI leadership and strategy?
Chapters:
00:00 – 10:10: Anthropic agents cause White House shift to tougher de facto AI regulation and oversight
10:10 – 14:06: CAISSI gets a name change and now reports to the White House
14:06 – 22:38: Focusing on US model safety without addressing Chinese models is inconsistent and jeopardizes American AI leadership
22:38 – 32:06: Anthropic has stopped 90-99% of adversarial distillation, will it lead to a durable US advantage?

Who Checks the AI Labs? Independent Verification with Andrew Freedman Oct 09, 2026

Show notes

Andrew Freedman, Co-Founder and CEO of Fathom, returns a year after his last conversation with Gregory C. Allen to explain how independent verification organizations (IVOs) went from Fathom's niche AI policy idea to governing law in two states. They start with Fathom’s published polling on U.S. public opinion on AI and how things have changed since the OpenAI Hugging Face incident. They cover:

California’s SB 813
Governor Newsom’s executive order, which pulls the IVO deadline forward to May 2027 and ties IVOs to SB 53
Connecticut’s five-IVO pilot
Why the bipartisan FRONTIER Act has a surprisingly high chance of being Congress' big AI bill next year.

Chapters

Andrew Freedman returns: what Fathom is and why it isn’t a PAC (00:00 - 02:43)
The April 2026 poll: vetting, China, and who Americans trust (02:43 - 11:06)
Focus groups, named CEOs, and the “Armageddon” expert (11:06 - 15:21)
What an IVO is: Underwriters Laboratories and the Age of Edison (15:21 - 22:43)
How IVOs work, and why voluntary is turning mandatory (22:43 - 26:27)
IVOs alongside CAISI and the UK AISI; duty of care and tort law (26:27 - 31:44)
Who gets to be an IVO, and who audits the auditors (31:44 - 38:29)
SB 813, Newsom’s executive order, SB 53, and Connecticut’s pilot (38:29 - 47:31)
Would IVOs have stopped the Hugging Face incident? (47:31 - 52:30)
Bessent, Sacks, and the liability fight (52:30 - 56:59)
The FRONTIER Act’s odds and the 60th Senate vote (56:59 - 1:01:28)

Trump's new AI czar + Nvidia exec caught smuggling chips to China Oct 06, 2026

Show notes

Gregory Allen and Adam Goodwin break down recent AI policy updates out of the White House – the appointment of Jay Clayton as the new AI czar, and the assembly of a new “Super Intelligence Task Force.” They discuss how the task force’s makeup and the administration’s policy evolution has shifted, but is still hesitant to embrace the kinds of AI safety frontier labs are calling for. Then, Greg and Adam look at a recent FTC investigation of leading U.S. AI labs, as well as action from multiple state attorneys general, to break down how AI liability is perceived and proposals for how to use liability to encourage AI safety efforts. Then, unknown cyber attackers used an open-source agent to break into South Korean banks, smuggled Nvidia chips continue to flow into China, and the D.C. Circuit Court upholds Anthropic’s supply chain risk designation.
Chapters:
00:00 – 12:28: White House unveils a new AI czar and the Super Intelligence Force
12:28 – 17:36: Re-evaluating the administration’s view of, and role for, AI safety
17:36 – 34:14: Debates about AI liability and responsibility for AI incidents, and how different levels of government are thinking about it
34:14 – 42:11: An AI agent breaks into South Korea’s biggest banks
42:11 – 54:58: Nvidia chip smuggling continues to supply China advanced AI chips, and implications for the U.S.
54:58 – 1:02:41: D.C. court upholds Anthropic’s supply chain risk designation, and why both parties lost the case

China reaches Mythos-tier Cyber AI + White House AI Accord + Trump/Xi Debrief Sep 30, 2026

Show notes

Gregory Allen and Jack Conlin recap the modest outcomes of the U.S.–China AI Summit and Trump’s UN General Assembly speech. Then, the White House has secured a voluntary AI safety accord from leading U.S. tech companies committing to a “morally binding” framework called the White House Accord on Super Intelligence. Greg also breaks down Anthropic and the U.S.’ CAISI reports that Z.ai's openly downloadable GLM 5.3 model has reached the Mythos-tier of cyber power and lags the US frontier by only four months in cyber capabilities. Plus, why did OpenAI's decide to withhold GPT-6.1 Astra?
Chapters:
00:00 – 14:22: US–China summit recap and reactions
14:22 – 23:21: White House AI luncheon and voluntary safety framework
23:21 – 32:13: Unpacking the new AI safety framework
32:13 – 47:39: GLM5.3 has Mythos-level capabilities, and the new cyber AI landscape
47:39 – 56:46: How did GLM5.3 attain near-frontier level capabilities?
56:46 – 59:49: OpenAI withholds release of GPT6.1-Astra

Previewing U.S.-China (Trump/Xi) Summit for AI Sep 22, 2026

Show notes

Greg Allen and Jack Conlin preview the upcoming summit between the United States and China and the role AI will play in the meeting. They outline how China enters the summit maintaining access to U.S. compute, pushing for domestic alternatives to U.S. and allied chips and semiconductor equipment, spreading its AI models globally, and continuing to engage in distillation. Then, they go over U.S. intelligence and industry reports of distillation, previews of the summit itself, and Greg offers his prediction on what to realistically expect from the summit.
Chapters:
00:00 – 1:00 Introduction
1:00 – 14:17: Why China might feel good - continued access to American compute
14:17 – 24:30: Why China might feel good - domestic Chinese chip push
24:30 – 35:54: Why China might feel good - domestic Chinese SME push
35:54 – 38:26: Chinese open models and HUMAIN
38:26 – 43:31: Chinese concerns - AI-enabled cyber risk
43:31 – 51:46: Chinese concerns - loss of control
51:46 – 58:28: How the United States feels heading in
58:28 – 1:02:57: Detailing US intel reports of Chinese distillation
1:02:57 – 1:10:23: Breaking down Anthropic’s distillation & AI misuse report
1:10:23 – 1:18:07: Previewing the summit itself
1:18:07 –1:27:37: Potential AI Outcomes from Summit

Emergency Pod! An AI Safety Tipping Point? Amodei calls for an AI slowdown Sep 14, 2026

Show notes

Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei has asked the AI industry to slow itself down, saying it should “pace the frontier” of AI development. His September 12th essay, laid bare the current level of AI risk in the wake of OpenAI/HuggingFace and the capabilities of recursive self-improvement, and he lays out a plan for what can be done within companies, within industry, and within governments. Gregory Allen and Adam Goodwin cover the essay's proposals, and why Amodei argues pacing makes sense now when the 2023 pause letter did not. They then cover reactions and how Sam Altman says OpenAI will take up part independent evaluators, and Demis Hassabis calls the direction correct. President Trump calls the prospect of AI catastrophe "a hoax," and China's foreign ministry calls the proposal "fear mongering," while Congress continues to debate AI regulation, without much prospect of passing anything until after the midterms.
Chapters:
00:00 – 15:37: Setting the stage for understanding Dario’s post
15:37 – 23:00: Pacing the frontier as an idea, and what to do with the extra time?
23:00 – 34:16: Focus on operational excellence, alignment, interpretability, testing and evaluation; METR as the current standard
34:16 – 38:16: What Dario is asking for from government
38:16 – 43:06: What would (or wouldn’t) international cooperation look like?
43:06 – 50:43: Keeping China at bay assuming they will not sign on to slow development, and the official Chinese response
50:43 – 55:17: Reactions to Amodei’s post from industry
55:17 – 1:10:28 President Trump and Obama’s reactions to Amodei’s post; David Sacks opposes Amodei’s suggestions
1:10:28 – 1:19:06: Congressional reactions; calls to regulate not likely to be heeded this session”

GPT-6 Astra - WOW, OpenAI = pro regulation, Trump admin warms to AI safety Sep 11, 2026

Show notes

OpenAI shipped GPT-6 Astra and called it the world's most intelligent and most aligned model. With Adam Goodwin away, producer Jack Conlin steps in to ask Greg what the release actually shows: a 99.9% score on ARC-AGI-3 against 17.8% for GPT-5.6 Sol, a jump from 30.3% to 42.4% on ExploitGym and from 78.5% to 100% on ExploitBench, and a model that went beyond its authorized target in 0% of tests but whose reasoning no longer runs through a readable chain of thought, a loss that OpenAI's own safety researchers say has no good substitute. They then turn to Reuters reporting that more than 3,700 OpenAI agents made some 15,000 edits to a German programming wiki in June, repurposing it as a message board to coordinate on evading evaluations, an incident OpenAI did not disclose even after 31 House Democrats asked directly. Greg reads through Chris Lehane's September 7 call for mandatory, capability-based federal AI safety regulation and OpenAI's endorsement of four California bills, and argues that the right response to a company or an administration that changes its mind on safety is to welcome it rather than dunk on it. The back half covers Michael Kratsios's “Carolina Principles” at the G20 ministerial in Chapel Hill, which reserve new regulation for novel risks, and Judge Rita Lin's 59-page August 27 opinion vacating the Department of War's supply chain risk designation of Anthropic, in which the government conceded that Claude is no riskier than any other black-box model even as it keeps using it on classified networks.

Chapters

1. Jack Conlin fills in, and GPT-6 Astra arrives: ARC-AGI-3, computer use, and cyber benchmarks (00:00 - 10:27)

2. More aligned but harder to monitor: what OpenAI lost with chain-of-thought monitorability (10:27 - 18:42)

3. The undisclosed June breakout: 3,700 agents on a German wiki and the House letter OpenAI didn’t answer (18:42 - 25:52)

4. OpenAI’s call for mandatory federal AI safety regulation, and why “safety” is a sayable word again (25:52 - 40:12)

5. The G20 in Chapel Hill and Michael Kratsios’s Carolina Principles (40:12 - 48:05)

6. Anthropic v. Department of War: Judge Lin’s summary judgment and the supply chain risk designation (48:05 - 56:36)

7. The pending D.C. case, GenAI.mil, and Claude’s continued classified use (56:36 - 1:01:33)

8. Wrap-up: what got left on the cutting room floor (1:01:33 - 1:02:20)

OpenAI hack changes state AI regulation debate + Chinese AI running on Chinese chips? Aug 28, 2026

Show notes

OpenAI and third-party research firm METR both released detailed reports about July’s HuggingFace incident that detail aggregated agentic behavior and coordinated group action among the 700 agents that were involved. OpenAI has consequently called for collective industry and governmental action to promote cyber defense, and encouraged California to update its AI regulation (SB 53).
Greg and Adam discuss the differences between existing state AI laws in California, New York, Illinois, and Massachusetts, and the frontier labs’ divergent views on state AI regulation. Lastly, Chinese lab Z.ai released its GLM-5.3 Flash model last week, offering a cheap, efficient model that it claims is served on inference by "Chinese" AI chips.

Chapters

1. The OpenAI Hugging Face Incident In More Detail (00:00 – 20:45)

2. AI Regulation at the State Level (20:45 – 33:57)

3. GLM-5.3 and Open Chinese Models (33:57 – 45:00)

4. Greg Off to Taiwan and Conclusion (45:00 – 45:41)

AI's Impact on Education with Casey Cuny - 2024 Cal Teacher of the Year Aug 26, 2026

Show notes

Greg sits down with Casey Cuny, California’s 2024 Teacher of the Year. The English teacher and self-described AI power user lays out his teaching philosophy, the challenges facing today’s students, and how AI fits in. Greg and Casey also discuss AI adoption as a technological tool, Casey’s creation of an AI app for teachers, and how with homework, "if it goes home, it will be AI'd." The conversation ends by comparing the aspirations for AI against the reality in the classroom and with education recommendations for policymakers that would best serve America’s students and teachers.

Explore Casey’s website at https://www.caseycuny.com/

Explore Whit, his app at https://www.whitai.app/

Chapters

1. Introduction to AI in education (00:00 - 01:54)

2. Casey's journey to teaching (01:54 - 03:38)

3. California Teacher of the Year award (03:38 - 05:51)

4. Teaching philosophy: rigor through relationships (05:51 - 08:57)

5. Challenges facing today's students (08:57 - 17:02)

6. AI vs. traditional learning tools (17:02 - 20:21)

7. Skills for the future: writing and critical thinking (20:21 - 29:04)

8. Using AI as a teaching tool (29:04 - 31:55)

9. AI in education: transforming assessment methods (31:55 - 36:39)