The ABA and PT Podcast

Latest Episodes:

#10 A Living Human Treasure with Dr. Carl Koenig May 13, 2022

Show notes

This episode tells the story of a humble, passionate, and inspiring human being who gave his all for the science of Precision Teaching. Dr. Carl Koenig was instrumental in the creation of the behavior chart, now called the Standard Celeration Chart and the foundations of Precision Teaching. Carl spent over a decade of his life working alongside Dr. Ogden Lindsley through the highs and lows of shaping Precision Teaching in the 60s and 70s.

In this episode, he will take us on a journey beginning with his early work experience at Kansas University, how he met Ogden, the development of precision teaching, and their efforts to spread the work to professionals and parents, amongst other things.

Join our The ABA and PT Podcast Facebook Group to get access to the following resources:

Facebook group link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/397478901376425

Check out the podcast on your favorite platform!

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-aba-and-ot-podcast/id1538336498

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7ieqLjFH8ekw2DA0VTWJno

Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoZWFiYWFuZG90cG9kY2FzdC9mZWVkLnhtbA==

Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-aba-and-ot-podcast

Podbean: https://theabaandotpodcast.podbean.com

HIGHLIGHTS

3:15 Carl’s childhood and his early work experience.

6:57 How he met Ogden Lindsley and how he got to Kansas University.

8:45 The development of Precision Teaching.

22:09 About his master’s degree and dissertations.

29:01 Carl’s findings that behavior multiplies and divides.

32:33 Workshops and other tested publishing alternatives to spread the word about Precision Teaching.

38:00 What the Behavior Bank was and how the state of technology got in the way of what could have been a state of the art hub for knowledge about behavior.

42:36 Two other attempts to apply the science: learning screening and PT 2. (Squared).

53:19 Carl’s life now that he’s retired.

RESOURCES

Our Aims, Discoveries, Failures, and Problem by Ogden R. Lindsley (dissertation)

Handbook of the Standard Celeration Chart, Deluxe Edition (book)

My Time with Ogden and Precision Teaching Reminisces by Dr. Carl H. Koenig (pdf) - Check out our Facebook Group for this and many more resources!

QUOTES

30:45 “Behavior generally changes not in equal steps.”

50:21 “It’s not too late to make good science.”

57:21 “Accept the fact that technology is improving and improving and improving and it's better than sometimes we could do.”

#9 Richard McManus - Making the Impossible Possible Precision Teaching Apr 13, 2022

Show notes

Richard McManus is the owner of The Fluency Factory, a PT learning lab in Massachusetts, and has been a Precision Teacher for more than 4 decades. In this episode, Richard recounts his life experience, beginning with his father's early influence, and his progressive use of inclusivity. He also talks about the individuals that have inspired him to advocate for the underprivileged. With his courage and resilience, Richard has influenced so many teachers, parents, and students. He firmly believes that we can make the impossible possible if we put our hearts into what we do and have the highest of expectations for the learners we work with and advocate for.

Join our The ABA and PT Podcast Facebook Group to get access to the following resources:

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Check out the podcast on your favourite platform!

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-aba-and-pt-podcast/id1538336498

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7ieqLjFH8ekw2DA0VTWJno

Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoZWFiYWFuZG90cG9kY2FzdC9mZWVkLnhtbA==

Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-aba-and-ot-podcast

Podbean: https://theabaandotpodcast.podbean.com

HIGHLIGHTS

2:32 Richard’s major influences.

8:41 Why he left the English department after freshman year.

12:40 Working with people with developmental disabilities at a big state institution.

37:51 Richard talks about his experience doing training for parents of kids with autism.

39:40 The Fluency Factory.

49:41 The challenge of recruiting people.

52:47 Encouraging teachers to have a career trajectory within precision teaching.

RESOURCES

Breaking the Code

The Fluency Factory

Make the Impossible Possible: One Man's Crusade to Inspire Others to Dream Bigger and Achieve the Extraordinary by Bill Strickland (*book)

Behavior in Public Places: Notes on the Social Organization of Gatherings by Ervin Goffman (*book)

QUOTES

39:12 “You don't really have a behavior problem. What you have is kids who aren't learning, and kids who aren't learning are not happy. So, you've got to create a learning environment, otherwise, you're going to have behavior problems.”

55:15 “Most of the children we see like my little guy from two years ago, who have problems with reading also have problems with their behavior.”

57:07 “We're going to have to figure out how do we embed the chart into things? Because without that, most of these programs that people are clinging to are just mumbo jumbo, they're not going to be very effective.”

59:03 “You really have to have high expectations, that is the key to any kind of progress your students are going to make.”

#8 Michael Maloney - How to be An Educational Ninja using Direct Instruction and Precision Teaching Mar 23, 2022

Show notes

Michael Maloney is a researcher and educator with over 50 years of combined experience in both private and public schools. Together with his colleague, Eric Haughton, he integrated behavior analysis, direct instruction, and precision teaching into a highly effective learning approach.

Michael takes us on a journey through his life, from being fired for disrupting the learning system at the school where he worked to meeting remarkable individuals that contributed to his incredible work.

Join our The ABA and PT Podcast Facebook Group to get access to the following resources:

Facebook group link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/397478901376425

Check out the podcast on your favourite platform!

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-aba-and-ot-podcast/id1538336498

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7ieqLjFH8ekw2DA0VTWJno

Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoZWFiYWFuZG90cG9kY2FzdC9mZWVkLnhtbA==

Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-aba-and-ot-podcast

Podbean: https://theabaandotpodcast.podbean.com

HIGHLIGHTS

00:01:24 Michael’s childhood and why he decided to become the first teacher in the family.

00:05:07 His educational background.

00:12:40 Why he got kicked out of school and what he did after.

00:17:39 Combining instruction and precision teaching with Eric Haughton.

00:28:35 Integrating behaviour analysis, direct instruction, and precision teaching.

00:32:34 Why are teachers hesitant to use his method?

00:42:55 Installing the program on computers to help 20,000 kids.

00:53:19 How he influenced the Morningside Center’s program.

1:00:21 Why is the discipline not growing?

1:05:02 How Carmen Marcy reduced the recidivism rate.

1:24:19 How did our field get to the point where we've lost touch with some of our most effective tools?

RESOURCES

The Maloney Method: https://www.maloneymethod.com

Learn more about The Good Behaviour Clock by Edward S. Kubany: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0005791671900553

The Fluency Factory: https://www.fluencyfactory.com

QUOTES

31:07 “You're not going to get fired if a third of these kids don't learn to read this year. In fact, you're going to get rewarded, you're going to get another contract, you're going to get another year of pension, you're going to get a raise, you're going to get two months off in the summer. There's just no accountability in the system and it doesn't start and end with the teachers. It goes all the way to the top.”

33:16 “You can barely find an educational institution that teaches the chart, or that teaches direct instruction, or for that matter, even does a good job of teaching behaviour analysis. I mean, I see these graduates, so they got master's degrees and their BCBAs and 28% of them ever use either direct instruction or precision teaching.”

1:01:21 “Essentially, until we can do things that people don't have to go sit and listen to somebody and get involved in what I call drive-by consulting, there's no accountability.”

1:02:49 “If you gave the teachers the opportunity to learn these skills, which they've never had, they would do a much better job. If they learn direct instruction only, they do a good job. If they paired that with precision teaching, they do an excellent job.”

#7 Clay Starlin - Incorporating Precise Measurement into Education Mar 05, 2022

Show notes

It’s an absolute honor to have one of the pioneers of precision teaching on the show, Dr. Clay Starlin. You’ll hear in this episode how he paved the way for teachers and disenfranchised children as he takes us on a journey through the profession that he has loved for nearly five decades of his life.

You'll learn about his childhood, his own struggles with reading as a child, and what ultimately motivated him to focus on improving student outcomes through the use of precise measurement. He also talks about how he developed verbal behavior around precision teaching and how continus to assist teachers in understanding how to deliver effective instruction and achieve mastery with their students, and so much more.

Join our The ABA and PT Podcast Facebook Group to get access to the following resources:

Facebook group link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/397478901376425

Check out the podcast on your favorite platform!

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-aba-and-ot-podcast/id1538336498

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7ieqLjFH8ekw2DA0VTWJno

Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoZWFiYWFuZG90cG9kY2FzdC9mZWVkLnhtbA==

Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-aba-and-ot-podcast

Podbean: https://theabaandotpodcast.podbean.com

1:28 Clay's early life and the people who have greatly influenced his career.

6:26 How dyslexia affected his own education.

19:05 His development of verbal behavior around precision teaching.

23:42 What s Precision Teaching classroom looks like.

29:59 Why Precision Teachers leave the public sector.

34:24 Dr. Starlin walks us through his journey post his doctorate.

42:22 How Precision Teachers traditionally have shared charts and data and collaborated.

50:51 The results of charting his own behavior.

1:21:00 What keeps him busy these days.

RESOURCES

Get the book, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas Kuhn: https://www.amazon.com/Structure-Scientific-Revolutions-50th-Anniversary-dp-0226458121/dp/0226458121/ref=mt_other?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=1646092023

Watch the Heart to Chart video series on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/HearttheChart

Details of how to purchase a wrist counter at Mohawk Leathers: http://www.mohawkleathers.com/

Clay’s upcoming book, Weaving Love and Science into Educational Practice, will be available at https://greatnessachieved.com/

Articles by Clay Starlin can be found here: https://www.fluency.org/publications

Learn more about Bemidji State College’s Special Education program: https://www.bemidjistate.edu/academics/departments/special-education/emotional-behavioral-disorders-licensure/

Skinner on Measurement 2013 Revision by Ogden R. Lindsley

QUOTES

30:43 “I have not given up on the public sector, because I think that is the place where the disenfranchised children of the world need to be supported because they don't have the resources to go to a private tutoring.”

32:02 “There needs to be a system that says, if your students are consistently not learning, there needs to be some correction. And you must accept it, or you must leave the profession.”

1:02:40 “If you invest all your energy on people they go away, but if you invested in policies, policies have a tendency to stay.”

1:06:09 “All educators agree that we want to get kids to mastery, but we don't agree on how to define it.”

1:15:03 “In loving relationships, if you don't have the truth, you're in trouble, and science is all about searching for the truth.”

1:19:02 “I have all these quotes from people saying, simplicity is genius, and on and on, but it really is hard to make it simple.”

#6 Elizabeth Haughton - Pinpointing Feb 17, 2022

Show notes

Elizabeth Haughton is a highly recognized educational consultant, the Founder of the Haughton Learning Center, and recipient of both the ‘Lifetime Achievement Award’ and the ‘Our Teacher Award’ from the Standard Celeration Society.

Elizabeth spent roughly 5 decades of her life helping children using her research-based methods to improve teaching and learning strategies.

It’s a privilege to have Elizabeth back on the show to talk more about her insightful discoveries and learning methods. In this episode, we’ll dive into understanding what pinpointing is and how essential it is in precision teaching as she talks about how she used this method to clearly describe students’ behaviors and developed practice plans to help them.

Join our The ABA and OT Podcast Facebook Group to get access to the following resources:

Facebook group link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/397478901376425

Check out the podcast on your favorite platform!

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-aba-and-ot-podcast/id1538336498

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7ieqLjFH8ekw2DA0VTWJno

Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoZWFiYWFuZG90cG9kY2FzdC9mZWVkLnhtbA==

Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-aba-and-ot-podcast

Podbean: https://theabaandotpodcast.podbean.com

HIGHLIGHTS

1:53 Understanding what pinpointing is.

11:26 Important parts or elements to describe what you are observing and recording.

14:00 An example of what a learning statement might be.

26:45 Examples and non-examples of pinpoints

33:57 How Elizabeth establishes a practice plan for a kid.

40:05 How to use countoons to describe a behavior.

56:40 How they discovered the Learning Channels using the Performance Matrix by Eric Haughton.

58:32 Combining channels to practice and find out more effective ways.

1:00 Kid’s struggle with the Think channel and strategies to overcome them.

RESOURCES

Learn more about the Haughton Learning Center on Elizabeth’s website: https://haughtonlearningcenter.com/

Learn more about foundation skills and applications at http://www.fluency.org

Fluency and Remembering by Carl Binder: http://haughtonlearningcenter.com/carls_article.html

Check out Eric Haughton’s Performance Matrix / Planning Matrix: http://binde1.verio.com/wb_fluency.org/Unpublished/Haughton1980b.pdf

QUOTES

16:28 “Studying channels is a lot for some people, it confuses them but I think if they understand that there's about seven intake channels, and there's hundreds of outputs but those two things are important for the pinpoint.”

23:59 “Do it yourself. Do it with a student if you're working with a complicated student.”

32:34 “No matter how much I pinpointed, the key to Terry Harris's success, besides us knowing the chart and the pinpoints and the things in precision teaching is practice.”

52:04 “Being as clear as we can about that movement cycle or the skills description and then multi-channeling it, rather than get uptight, people need to have fun with it.”

1:04:00 “A scientist is exploring all the time. We all need to be scientists and explore and use our observations to see what's there. I mean, we know so much he but we still have so much to learn.”

#5 Elizabeth Haughton - Heart + Science Jan 12, 2022

Show notes

She has been a precision teacher for more than 50 years and joins us today to talk about her combination of heart and science within her teaching model.

She explains how she incorporated precision teaching with her students in a classroom setting and what led her to open her own learning center.

Filled with joy, passion, and excitement it’s a pleasure talking to Elizabeth about all things precision teaching and how she’s transformed childrens' lives through the use of charting.

Join our The ABA and OT Podcast Facebook Group to get access to the following resources:

Facebook group link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/397478901376425

Check out the podcast on your favorite platform!

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-aba-and-ot-podcast/id1538336498

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7ieqLjFH8ekw2DA0VTWJno

Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoZWFiYWFuZG90cG9kY2FzdC9mZWVkLnhtbA==

Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-aba-and-ot-podcast

Podbean: https://theabaandotpodcast.podbean.com/

HIGHLIGHTS

02:54 Elizabeth’s work as an educator and the different children she works with.

05:18 The impact Elizabeth’s mother had on her and how she found her passion for teaching people with additional needs.

11:05 What it was like growing up on a cattle ranch in California with 5 other siblings.

14:41 How different games can help children with their learning.

16:51 How Elizabeth started her teaching career and why she focused on children who had problems with retention.

20:23 What Elizabeth learned from her first experience of precision teaching.

25:25 The history of ‘The Standard Celeration Chart’ and how Elizabeth knew she wanted to be a precision teacher.

28:49 How the classroom can be arranged to help children chart and what Elizabeth does to make charting easier for the kids.

33:55 What you can learn from the consistent charting of data about how a child’s day-to-day affects their performance.

35:27 ‘The happy learner model’ and the benefit of direct instruction in your teaching plan.

37:54 How Elizabeth enrolled other teachers into the precision teaching method.

40:45 How working with Terry Harris taught Elizabeth about gross motor and fine motor coordination.

44:01 The people who influenced and taught Elizabeth and how she became so knowledgeable in precision teaching.

47:18 Why Elizabeth moved to Canada and what the classes were like for children with additional needs there.

50:10 How Elizabeth decided what to teach the children in her classes and why she doesn’t always stick to a standard curriculum.

56:30 What made Elizabeth start her own private learning center and what it was like running an intensive program.

1:02:15 Elizabeth’s current work in program creation, teaching, and coaching.

1:05:05 Different coaches people can reach out to to learn about precision teaching.

1:09:40 The different writing manuals and materials that Elizabeth has published.

1:12:55 The charting Elizabeth does on her own data and how this has helped her.

1:23:20 The need for parents to be involved in the education of their children and the future of behavioral science and precision teaching.

1:32:11 Why most schools don’t incorporate precision teaching in their curriculum.

1:34:50 Where Elizabeth got the idea for hearts on charts, and why she always starts with the heart.

1:41:43 The importance of gratitude.

RESOURCES

Learn more about the Haughton Learning Center on Elizabeth’s website: https://haughtonlearningcenter.com/

Check out The Story Book (memory game): https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/294601273632?chn=ps&_ul=AU&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-139619-5960-0&mkcid=2&itemid=294601273632&targetid=1279751774829&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9112673&poi=&campaignid=9772799667&mkgroupid=123973272138&rlsatarget=pla-1279751774829&abcId=578876&merchantid=7364522&gclid=Cj0KCQiAieWOBhCYARIsANcOw0zDtzJER65LjzYpAHIKLORmWrlwKD9Y3fkUiCTL5AYk6SHebNALfvQaAgQrEALw_wcB

Find out more about Blink - the world’s fastest card game: https://www.amazon.com.au/Reinhards-Staupes-Blink-Worlds-Fastest/dp/B0037W5Y2W/ref=sr_1_1?crid=24KCEZJW88BYJ&keywords=blink+game&qid=1641695101&sprefix=blink+game%2Caps%2C384&sr=8-1

Find the game Spot It: https://www.amazon.com/Asmod%C2%A8%C2%A6e-Spot-It-Classic-Eco-Blister/dp/B08CMRPCKL/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1S9H6FUUC6N3F&keywords=spot+it&qid=1641695144&sprefix=spot+i%2Caps%2C433&sr=8-1

Get Connect 4: https://www.amazon.com/Connect-Strategy-Board-Amazon-Exclusive/dp/B06XY881H4/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1V9IFDVNSHYMG&keywords=connect+4&qid=1641695183&sprefix=connec%2Caps%2C527&sr=8-3

Learn more about the bead counters Eileen Standing Bear makes through Mohawk Leathers: http://www.mohawkleathers.com/

Find more about Morningside Academy

Learn more about The Standard Celeration Chart

QUOTES

04:53 Elizabeth “I’m amazed that we’re really able to make a difference in the lives of so many youngsters.”

12:55 Elizabeth “To me if you’re going to be into precision teaching and the measurement of learning be part of a team. It’s so important to be a learner, to be part of the team.”

44:38 Elizabeth “Build their strengths and their needs, but don’t ever forget what can they do and get it going.”

53:05 Elizabeth “The students, they can all learn. That’s all I know, I haven’t met anyone who can’t learn but I have to go where they are and I have to bring up their strengths. It takes figuring out but sometimes you have to unlearn your own head and watch what they’re doing instead of what you think the curriculum is.”

1:21:14 Elizabeth “Helping other people and being part of something that really does change lives in a positive way, keeps your spirit young, keeps your energy.”

1:33:59 Elizabeth “Those little guys want to read, I saw it when I taught. They want to do it, they want to write their numbers, they want to do their maths facts, they want to learn. So how can we give it to them will always be something I spend my whole life how to make it better.”

#4 So Many Lessons, So Little Time Dec 08, 2021

Show notes

Dr. John Eshleman has dedicated his life to making our science successful for all. Standing in Ogden Lindsley's wish for the use of plain English in Precision Teaching, he has the ability to express complex scientific phenomena in understandable language.

John joins us in this episode to discuss a variety of topics from the richness of SAFMEDS to his explanation of Ogden's “Common Language for Analyzing Behavior”. He shares his views on how our rich underpinnings have been watered down in a rush to train behavior technicians in order to make the demands for frontline staff for the autism field. He also questions the reason behind the initiative to limit the BACB certifications to North America.

HIGHLIGHTS

04:41 Who were John's early influences that led him to pursue a career in Psychology and Precision Teaching?

13:42 John on his career after graduate school, including his projects with Aubrey Daniels & Associates

23:34 On the benefits of using manual flashcards

26:18 What were some of the applications that John has used SAFMEDS for?

31:18 John describes Steve Graf's dissertation topic on word responses

41:01 On the use of plain English in Precision Teaching

58:06 On the current state of ABA

1:17:07 On the current state and future hope for Precision Teaching

1:29:18 Helpful resources for students pursuing Precision Teaching and charting

RESOURCES

Learn more about the Standard Celeration Society on their Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/celeration.org/

Learn more about the Standard Celeration Society on their website: https://celeration.org/

Check out Carl Binder’s The Fluency Channel on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/189260084444139/

Visit the Fluency Project's website: https://fluency.org/

Check out Richard McManus’ Fluency Factory videos on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/richardinhingham/playlists

Learn more about Steve Graf on this website: https://www.stevegraf.org/

Read the book, Precision Teaching--A Practical Science of Education by Norris G. Haring (Author), Margaret (Peggy) S. White (Author), Malcolm D. Neely (Author): https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Teaching-Practical-Sciene-Education/dp/1597380342

Get a copy of the book, Handbook of the Standard Celeration Chart from the Cambridge Center Website: https://behavior.org/product/handbook-of-the-standard-celeration-chart-deluxe-edition-color-2/

Join our The ABA and PT Podcast Facebook Group to get access to the following resources:

Facebook group link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/397478901376425

QUOTES

30:09 John: "Here's one of the things about instructional design— that's part of my philosophy at least— is that why make personal learning on something if they already know it? I'm always an advocate of 'if somebody knows something, can they test it out?' That way they don't have to waste their time or your time going through a learning program about something they already know."

45:48 John: "Lindsley's whole idea with COLAB was to use as much plain English as possible, presented accelerating consequence. There's nothing technical about that, right? It's presented, it's not taken away. It's accelerated, not decelerated because you have presented decelerating consequence too, as opposed to a punisher."

52:04 John: "Precision Teaching itself, as a term, is a euphemism. Euphemism is a better-sounding word that has less baggage or less controversy."

1:13:58 John: "To the extent that Precision Teaching can maintain some independence, it always was somewhat independent of ABA because they both come from different lineages and they only partially overlap. Precision Teaching is about a lot of positive things. I mean, we're teaching. So we call our client 'learners'."

1:19:09 John: "As long as we respect what the background is of Precision Teaching, what its main purpose was, using the actual chart and not being dogmatic about any of this. Being willing to graph things other ways too— that's the least dogmatic it can be."

#3 Dr Kim - The State of Play in ABA Nov 24, 2021

Show notes

In this episode, we’re joined by Dr. Kimberly Nix Berens; a scientist-educator and Founder of Fit Learning. As she shares her story of how she found her way through Behavior Science and Precision Teaching, Dr. Kim also provides tons of anecdotes from her learning experiences with mentors, the development of Precision Teaching, and her personal encounter with Ogden Lindsley. She speaks of her vision for automation of data to allow the collection of data in classrooms, the challenges faced in Behavior Analysis, and her hopes for the upcoming students in the field.

Dr. Kim has recently published her first book, Blind Spots: Why students fail and the science that can save them.

HIGHLIGHTS

02:29 Dr. Kim's early childhood and upbringing

11:03 Her mentorship with Maria Ruiz at Rollins College

20:13 Her mentorship with Elbert "Ed" Blakely at Threshold Inc.

33:20 Ogden Lindsley and his views on today's Behavior Analysis

50:11 Automation of data: Dr. Kim's vision for the future of Precision Teaching

53:33 Dr. Kim shares her encounter with Ogden Lindsley

1:00:13 Pragmatism & Science: An advice to Behavior Analysts

1:03:27 Dr. Kim's take on the traditional education & professionalization in ABA

RESOURCES

You can learn more about Dr. Kim on her website: https://www.drkimberlyberens.com/

Visit Fit Learning’s website: https://fitlearners.com/

Get a copy of Dr. Kim’s book: https://www.drkimberlyberens.com/blindspots

Join our The ABA and PT Podcast Facebook Group to get access to the following resources:

Facebook group link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/397478901376425

QUOTES

13:05 "The second she opened her mouth and introduced us to the behavioral view, I couldn't believe that there was actually a field of science as precise as biology, but with the power to effectively change human behavior in a way that improves the quality of life for all people on the planet."

25:14 "Skinner himself stopped measuring rate when he started moving into looking at academic skills. And the problem is because of the influence on how education does stuff. It's behavior analyst trying to fit our model into an education framework. Somehow, when you think about teaching kids stuff, all of a sudden education becomes the dominant way of thinking about how to do it rather than accelerating behavior is no different than decelerating behavior and it requires the same science."

32:38 "One of the applied areas that aren't stuck is people who do Precision Teaching. The discoveries that we make every single day at Fit Learning are profound and unfortunately, that's not happening in a lot of other areas of Applied Behavior Analysis because no one's using science number one, and no one's using a language of science that allows people to share discoveries in a powerful way so that they can propel the field forward."

1:01:48 "Science gives you the ability to not be dogmatic and self-righteous. Science is inherently humble, skeptical, and never satisfied."

#2 Dr Abigail Calkin - An Extraordinary Life - Part 2 Nov 10, 2021

Show notes

In this episode, we welcome back Dr. Abigail B. Calkin as she continues to share her extraordinary journey through Behavior Analysis and Precision Teaching, especially on her move to Kansas to earn a Ph.D. under the supervision of Ogden Lindsley.

She also taps into some interesting parts of her life where she developed the one-minute timing method in order to change her behavior and relationships, how she learned Russian using SAFMEDS, and how charting has helped her find out and minimize her epileptic episodes. She then talks about ‎AimStar Lite, a project that aims to make charting much easier and faster for users of the standard celeration chart.

HIGHLIGHTS

03:16 Abigail's very close friendship with Diana Dean led her to get a Ph.D. in Kansas under Ogden Lindsley's guidance

21:36 Abigail describes some of their family projects which include counting their behavior, and talks about exposing her 5-year-old son to Precision Teaching

26:15 Her views on Errorless Learning and how she learned Russian using SAFMEDS

34:27 Precision Teaching and the classes she took at Kansas University

41:03 How Abigail practiced the 'one-minute timing' technique to change her behavior and relationships

57:57 How her supervision and mentorship with Ogden looked like and her thoughts on how the Behavior Bank was contributed to Behavior Analysis

1:13:54 Abigail's life and career after completing her Ph.D. and on learning about her epilepsy

1:19:08 What charting has shown her to minimize the effects of epilepsy

1:42:00 Abigail remains hopeful on the use of Standard Celeration Chart not just within Behavior Analysis but also in other fields of work

1:47:40 Introducing the AimStar Lite— a project in which Abigail is involved in

RESOURCES

You can learn more about Abigail on her website: http://www.abigailbcalkin.com/

Learn more about the Standard Celeration Society: https://celeration.org/

Join our The ABA and PT Podcast Facebook Group to get access to the following resources:

Facebook group link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/397478901376425

QUOTES

31:18 "Did I worry about whether I made an error? No. When I do a reading of something I've written (...) you know, it's nice to be able to read absolutely fluently and never make a mistake but that's not me. And so I gloss over and I cover it up, I go back, something like that. I figure in learning, you make mistakes. A mistake is an opportunity to learn how to do something better."

38:15 "You have to have standardization on measurement. Blood pressure is standardized. Carbon dating is standardized. All of these things that my father would bring home as ideas and talk about, they're standardized. And so why not standardize the measurement of learning?"

44:02 "I started doing a one-minute timing and in 2 weeks, I had flipped it around. I was counting all day; positive feelings, negative feelings, positive thoughts, negative thoughts, missed opportunities for both... and that made the difference. It took the negative, unpleasant thoughts and feelings down, and it boosted the positive ones."

#1 Dr Abigail Calkin - An Extraordinary Life Oct 27, 2021

Show notes

This episode is part one of a two-part series featuring Dr. Abigail B. Calkin; a teacher, writer, and poet who has combined Precision Teaching and inner behavior in her work with adults and children.

Abigail takes us back to her extraordinary journey through psychology and teaching, then to Behavior Analysis and Precision Teaching. From her early life to her schooling experiences, she cites the significant events that lead her on a bold, courageous, and extraordinary life. In part 1, she recounts her journey to get to Kansas to study under Dr. Ogden Lindsley.

HIGHLIGHTS

06:08 Abigail’s family has a major influence on her ability to embrace challenges

12:45 Her early schooling experience that shaped her decision to go into Psychology and Philosophy

23:23 Abigail as a school counselor for children with learning disabilities and behavioral disorders

31:26 In pursuit of a Master's Degree in Philosophy

45:56 Her introduction to Precision Teaching

1:09:30 How she had taken Precision Teaching into her teaching career

1:19:07 When did she first read on B.F Skinner’s Verbal Behavior?

RESOURCES

Visit Abigail’s website at http://www.abigailbcalkin.com/

Join The ABA and PT Podcast Facebook Group to get access to the following resources:

Facebook group link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/397478901376425

QUOTES

34:38 "But I realized, when I have about 3-4 months left, Philosophy is not an end in itself. It is a means to an end. And what am I doing in Philosophy? I don't want to teach Philosophy. So I left the University of Edinburgh and I moved to Oregon on a whim."

1:11:36 "I had literally put together an entire bibliography of all professional articles and materials that were for multi-handicapped students— preschoolers which included infants and anybody up to about age 3, maybe 4, and all kinds of disabilities."

1:18:22 "The way ideas develop, they don't develop rapidly. You can't do a one-minute timing and teach your kid the way you can do it and teach a kid to read 2 years in one year using a one-minute timing a day. It doesn't work for thinking. It doesn't work for thought development."

1:35:33 "One of the things is having lived with epilepsy for 72 or 73 years… Now that I have a diagnosis, I am absolutely determined to be public about it because it's like autism— a learning disability. When we first found out about learning disabilities and emotional problems, we kind of put it off to the side. So we do these things (...) and I'm determined not to be private of that."

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