Tech Buzz China by Pandaily

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Ep. 34: WeChat’s 7.0 Update and Allen Zhang, the Man Behind the App Jan 11, 2019

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In episode 34 of TechBuzz China, co-hosts Ying-Ying Lu and Rui Ma talk about the latest version of WeChat, which first came out on iOS the third week of December 2018, and on Android a few days later. It has been over four years since WeChat released an update this large, and since then, it’s added on over half a billion monthly active users. The latest updates included several widely expected features, namely, enhanced sharing of both video and content, which overlap with Bytedance’s core strengths — definitely not a coincidence. What’s the latest behind what is still arguably the most influential internet product of the past decade? And what has been the impact of WeChat's founder on its product development? Rui and Ying-Ying share that WeChat was created by Zhang Xiaolong, or Allen Zhang, who joined Tencent via the internet giant’s acquisition of Foxmail. He was originally tasked with heading up the Tencent R&D center and leading the QQ Mail team. As the now legendary — and publicly confirmed — story goes, Allen had a flash of insight, inspired by the traction the Canadian Kik Messenger had amassed in just 15 days. He sent a late-night email to Tencent CEO Pony Ma about the opportunity and the potential threat to existing Tencent products from this kind of mobile-based instant messaging. Pony agreed, and entrusted Allen to execute the release of Tencent’s own version. Just a few months later, Allen’s team released the WeChat version 1.0. Our co-hosts explain that, though hard to imagine today, WeChat had an extremely rocky start and experienced several shaky periods during its growth. Looking back, it was by no means a sure-bet product from the beginning. Rui and Ying-Ying take listeners on a journey through the app’s turbulent history, through its various version iterations, and up to the present day. Throughout, they explain the impact of Allen Zhang’s ethos: Our co-hosts argue that he is an artist and a philosopher at heart who cares more about the user experience than about business metrics. How have these values shaped WeChat’s most recently stated primary missions: to be a great tool for the users it serves, and to constantly evolve and change in order to do so? As always, you can find these stories and more at pandaily.com. Do let us know what you think of the show by leaving us an iTunes review, liking our Facebook page, and tweeting at us at @techbuzzchina to win some swag! Thanks also to our listeners over at our partner, dealstreetasia.com. Finally, TechBuzz listeners in the Bay Area may sign up for Silicon Dragon’s Silicon Valley event, taking place soon on January 24. You can find more information and sign up here: https://silicondragonvalley2019.eventbrite.com. Please use code SDValley2019Buzz for 50 percent off! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ep. 33: Tencent Music - Totally Not China’s Spotify Dec 26, 2018

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In episode 33 of TechBuzz China, co-hosts Ying-Ying Lu and Rui Ma talk about Tencent Music (TME), which finally completed its $1.2 billion IPO after a two-month delay due to market volatility. The company rose 9 percent on its first day, but has traded below the initial offering price ever since. This episode covers the business model of TME, its market potential, and our co-hosts’ thoughts on its future outlook. Though often compared with Spotify, to what extent are these two companies truly similar? Rui and Ying-Ying begin today’s story by reviewing Tencent Music’s corporate history. The entity comprises four apps: QQ Music, Kugou Music, Kuwo Music, and WeSing, which today account for a combined 70 percent of China’s music market. However, once upon a time, these were disparate products that sometimes competed; in fact, they only came together through an entity known as China Music Corporation (CMC), which was formed in 2012 by Xie Guomin. CMC acquired Kuwo in 2013 and Kugou a few months later; Tencent turned its minority stake in the entity into a majority position when it injected the QQ Music and WeSing assets for over 60 percent ownership at a valuation of $2.7 billion. At this point, the company was renamed Tencent Music Entertainment. From here, Rui and Ying-Ying contrast the strategies of China- and U.S.-based music player apps. They delve into the reasons for these divergent paths, including China’s unique business environment, its domestic user behavior and cash-giving habits, the impact of new categories such as mobile live streaming, and even Chinese people’s deep love for karaoke. Notably, the legally trained and opportunistic Xie Guomin was first spurred to found CMC to capitalize on the government’s changing policies around copyright and intellectual property. Listen to find out: How has this “race to own copyrights” affected the industry and its major players? How do Alibaba and Baidu fit into the picture — or not? Why is it that paying for music is a behavior TME still needs to cultivate in its users? What does all of this mean in today’s competitive landscape, and what does betting for or against TME really entail? As always, you can find these stories and more at pandaily.com. Let us know what you think of the show by leaving us an iTunes review, liking our Facebook page, and tweeting at us at @techbuzzchina to win some swag! Finally, we would like to welcome our new listeners over at our partner, dealstreetasia.com. Our co-hosts will be on a two-week break for the holidays, but we look forward to releasing a new episode in the second week of January. Happy Holidays!! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ep. 32: Luckin Coffee: Starbucks Challenger or a New Breed of F&B for the 21st Century? Dec 12, 2018

Show notes

In episode 32 of TechBuzz China, co-hosts Ying-Ying Lu and Rui Ma talk about Luckin Coffee, the hybrid online-offline coffee chain unicorn startup that’s turning heads in China with its rapid expansion and innovative business model. In fact, immediately after we completed recording this episode, news broke that the year-old company has raised another $200 million in fresh funding, upping its valuation to $2.2 billion. Throughout Luckin’s existence, Western media has had a habit of comparing Luckin to Starbucks, and describing Luckin as the “Starbucks challenger.” But just how accurate is this juxtaposition? Additionally, how has now-celebrity CEO Qian Zhiya, or Jenny, been able to attract tremendous amounts of venture capital and instill strong investor confidence as a first-time founder? Rui and Ying-Ying begin today’s story with Jenny’s background. Now 43 years old, she was previously best known as one of the hidden weapons of China’s leading transportation companies, the operations-heavy Ucar, where she rose from an administrative role to become COO and EVP of the rental division in 2014. At Ucar, Jenny oversaw the rapid growth in mobile-enabled on-demand services for the ride-sharing business — valuable expertise for envisioning and executing Luckin’s marriage of offline storefront expansion and on-demand experience on the smartphone. The companies’ ties do not end there: Jenny started Luckin with a loan from Ucar CEO Lu Zhengyao, and many of Luckin’s investors had also invested in Ucar. Rui and Ying-Ying continue by comparing Luckin with Starbucks, and then explaining why that comparison doesn’t make much sense. Complete with vivid stories and analysis, our co-hosts’ thesis is that Luckin’s rise is a prime example of how brands are increasingly using offline presence to acquire online customers, and that the company’s technology and digital-first F&B business model innovations can be exported and applied to other businesses and in other locales. Listen to find out: Which startups, both in China and here in the U.S., can we more accurately consider to be the chain’s “cousins”? What role does data play in optimizing aspects such as delivery, inventory management, personalized deals, and expansion? It’s too early to tell if Luckin will succeed, but what factors may tip the odds in one direction or another? How is this Chinese company using technology to successfully reimagine F&B — faster than Starbucks ever has — beginning with one of the oldest and seemingly simplest markets, grabbing a cup of coffee? As always, you can find these stories and more at pandaily.com. Let us know what you think of the show by leaving us an iTunes review, liking our Facebook page, and tweeting at us at @techbuzzchina to win some swag! Finally, we would like to give a shoutout to our new listeners over at our partner, dealstreetasia.com. SupChina’s profile on Luckin CEO Jenny: https://supchina.com/2018/07/11/a-billion-dollar-coffee-company-and-the-woman-behind-it/ Ed Sander’s piece on Luckin: http://www.chinatalk.nl/luckin-de-chinese-startup-die-concurrent-starbucks-leerde-bezorgen/ See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ep. 31: Alibaba and the Little Red Book (Xiaohongshu): Powering Ecommerce With Content Dec 05, 2018

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In episode 31 of TechBuzz China, co-hosts Ying-Ying Lu and Rui Ma talk about Xiaohongshu, also known as RED, which had received a $300 million investment from Alibaba. Though the money was injected in June, the two companies have recently announced an additional cooperation that links them at the product level — an integration with Alibaba’s Taobao. What is the significance of these developments, and what is the story of Xiaohongshu? Listeners also hear from Elijah Whaley, the CMO of the Chinese influencer marketing platform PARKLU, which counts RED as a client. Rui and Ying-Ying share that Xiaohongshu’s tagline is “The world’s best lifestyle at your fingertips,” and people often refer to the site as “Instagram and Pinterest sprinkled with a dose of Taobao.” The site’s founders, Charlwin Mao and Miranda Qu, are only 33 this year. They first met a decade ago in a U.S. mall, though Xiaohongshu did not exist until Charlwin attended a Tencent-sponsored entrepreneurship camp in his first summer of business school. From the beginning, the co-founders set their sights on the cross-border market, with Xiaohongshu positioned as a community, complete with useful guides and reviews as well as real posts. The initial slogan was “Find good things abroad.” It then became “Discover good things in the world,” and later, “Good life in the world,” before today’s inclusive “Taking notes on my life.” Rui and Ying-Ying delve into the product features and positioning that distinguish Xiaohongshu. Even though it is a content platform, the app makes money not from ads, but via traditional ecommerce; as of 2017, it sold 50 percent third-party goods and was 50 percent self-operated. Though counterintuitive, their strategy has worked: The company is now at 120 million users and 30 million MAU, with a rumored close to $1 billion in revenue last year and double that this year. How has the platform evolved? What differentiates Xiaohongshu’s users from the rest of China ecommerce? What about distinctions in the type of content its users publish? Why is this a smart alliance for Alibaba, and how does the app reflect consumption trends in China? As always, you can find these stories and more at pandaily.com. Let us know what you think of the show by leaving us an iTunes review, liking our Facebook page, and tweeting at us at @techbuzzchina to win some swag! And — a huge shoutout to our listeners over at partner dealstreetasia.com. Finally, listeners in the San Francisco Bay Area who would like free tickets to view Hao Wu’s film on live streaming and its impact in China, People’s Republic of Desire, should email yingying@pandaily.com by Friday, December 7. Here is the event link: https://www.roxie.com/ai1ec_event/peoples-republic-of-desire-2/. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ep. 30: The Greatest Train Wreck of the Chinese Internet: Renren, China’s Facebook Nov 21, 2018

Show notes

In episode 30 of TechBuzz China, co-hosts Ying-Ying Lu and Rui Ma talk about Renren Inc., the closest Chinese analogue to Facebook. The company — which once had a near-monopoly on the Chinese social networking space, and had raised $800 million in its 2011 IPO — recently announced that it would sell all of its Renren.com social networking assets to Beijing Infinities Technology, a holding company, for a mere $20 million in cash and $40 million worth of stock. This episode explores the question: What happened? Rui and Ying-Ying follow the winding history of Renren, starting with the background of its founder and CEO, Joe Chen, through its acquisition of Wang Xing’s Xiaonei social network and then to its NYSE listing — which, by the way, Rui’s investment banking firm at the time played a small role in. Though the public offering was successful, even hailed as a “prelude to Facebook’s IPO,” things started going downhill from there. By 2016, total revenues had dropped by half to $63 million, and the company was consistently reporting losses of active users. This decline has been so stark, in fact, that when Chen announced in a post on Renren.com that the company had been sold, the post only had about 800 views after 12 hours. What are the reasons for this outcome? What roles have poor strategic decisions, the founder’s ethics and vision (or lack of vision), and Renren’s insistence on continually bandwagoning onto the latest hot trend played? How is it that by 2017, 75 percent of Renren Group’s revenues were coming from used-car sales and financing, and that in contrast, Renren.com’s business made up just 9 percent of the company’s revenues in Q2 of this year? Listen to the newest episode of TechBuzz China and join Rui and Ying-Ying in analyzing the rise and fall of one of China’s most iconic internet brands. Throughout, our co-hosts also lean into an unspoken question that is perhaps on many of our listeners’ minds as well: What lessons can Facebook and other U.S.-based social platforms learn from this incredible story? As always, you can find these stories and more at pandaily.com. Let us know what you think of the show by leaving us an iTunes review, liking our Facebook page, and tweeting at us at @techbuzzchina to win some swag! Finally, a huge shout-out to our new listeners over at dealstreetasia.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ep. 29: Alibaba Singles’ Day $30.8 Billion Extravaganza — The Real Deal, or Not? Nov 16, 2018

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In episode 29 of TechBuzz China, co-hosts Ying-Ying Lu and Rui Ma talk about China’s version of “Black Friday,” the biggest ecommerce shopping festival of the year which Alibaba invented out of thin air in 2008 and now falls yearly on November 11. Rui and Ying-Ying delve into the history behind the “Double 11 Shopping Festival,” as Chinese media title it. How did it get started? Why does it have such mindshare in the world of China’s internet? How did it go this year? After reviewing the evidence, our co-hosts conclude that despite the large sales figures floating around, this single holiday is not an accurate reflection of the state of the ecommerce sector in China. Rui and Ying-Ying share that the original iteration of Singles Day was launched in 2008 by Daniel Zhang of Alibaba, who has since been promoted to CEO. His intent was to promote Tmall, Alibaba’s business to consumer (B2C) platform that was then known as Taobao Merchants. Since the selected date, November 11, was already known to some Chinese millennials as Singles Day, the tagline: “Have nothing to do on Singles Day? Why not buy something to gift away?” stuck easily. In that first year, with only 27 brands participating, sales reached $7 million. In the 10 years since, the shopping holiday’s single day gross merchandise volume (GMV) has grown over 4,000 times. On 11/11 this past week, the holiday generated $25 billion for Alibaba alone; in comparison, Amazon’s Prime Day 2018 was estimated to bring in a mere $4 billion. Additionally, though most headlines focus exclusively on Alibaba, most other major ecommerce platforms — including JD, Pinduoduo, VIPShop, NetEase, and more — now participate as well, boosting numbers even more. Listen to the newest episode of TechBuzz China and join Rui and Ying-Ying in exploring: What is the real story behind the numbers? Is GMV a reliable indicator of actual revenue, and why or why not? What types of practices does Alibaba engage in that contribute to inflating — or even engineering — these figures? Is there a strong case to be made that the bigger headline should be the massive marketing campaigns, logistics, and infrastructure that had to go into this event to make it all happen? As always, you can find these stories and more at pandaily.com. Let us know what you think of the show by leaving us an iTunes review, liking our Facebook page, and tweeting at us at @techbuzzchina to win some swag! Finally, a huge shoutout to our new listeners over at dealstreetasia.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ep. 28: The World’s Most Valuable Startup: Bytedance, maker of TikTok & Toutiao Nov 07, 2018

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In episode 28 of TechBuzz China, co-hosts Ying-Ying Lu and Rui Ma talk about the Chinese AI company that recently toppled Uber to become the highest-valued startup in the world: Bytedance. Having just closed on a $3 billion funding round led by SoftBank, the company is currently valued at $75 billion. Though our co-hosts have mentioned Bytedance across several previous episodes, including a focus on the company’s war with Tencent in episode 9, today’s episode is the first to delve into its founding story, and to give a snapshot of its key strengths and weaknesses. Bytedance’s parent company was founded in 2012 with the buzzy mandate to “combine the power of AI with the growth of mobile internet to revolutionize the way people consume and receive information.” Six years later, the company’s two main apps, news-oriented Toutiao and video-based TikTok, have over 260 million and over 500 million monthly active users, respectively. In fact, TikTok, which is just a bit over two years old, was the most downloaded app in the world in the first quarter of 2018. Bytedance’s success has affected the key metrics of other leading Chinese internet companies. Notably, Tencent has seen its percentage of total internet user usage time drop between June 2017 and June 2018 — with nearly all of the 7 percent decline seemingly directed into Bytedance’s family of apps. Indeed, Bytedance’s lack of affiliation with either Tencent or Alibaba stands out. This lack of affiliation is due at least in part to Bytedance founder and CEO Zhang Yiming, a 35-year-old, even-keeled, through-and-through geek who has always been fiercely independent and ambitious. It’s a well-known anecdote that in 2016, when asked by one of his executives about rumors that Tencent was going to acquire Bytedance, Zhang Yiming replied, “I didn’t found Bytedance to become a Tencent executive.” Listen to the newest episode of TechBuzz China and join Rui and Ying-Ying in exploring the following: What about the hiring process, company culture, and work style of Toutiao makes it unique, especially as compared with other Chinese companies? How does the fact that Toutiao is at least partly a content business affect how it does business in China? What are its ultimate existential risks? Is deeming Bytedance China’s “Buzzfeed with Brains” an accurate description? As the company has already made plays for markets in Japan, India, Brazil, North America, and Southeast Asia, what’s next in its efforts to internationalize? As always, you can find these stories and more at pandaily.com. Let us know what you think of the show by leaving us an iTunes review, liking our Facebook page, and tweeting at us at @techbuzzchina to win some swag! Finally, a huge shoutout to our new listeners over at dealstreetasia.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ep. 27: Poking at the Hornet’s Nest: Fake Reviews in China Tech Oct 31, 2018

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In Episode 27 of TechBuzz China, co-hosts Ying-Ying Lu and Rui Ma discuss the latest scandal to come out of the Chinese internet — fake reviews on one of China’s leading travel websites, Mafengwo. Mafengwo had $1.5 billion in sales last year, 63k transactions, and over 100 million monthly active users. It’s already backed by some of the best investors in the business, including Temasek, Hillhouse, General Atlantic, and Capital Today, and in August, it was leaked that it was in the middle of raising $300 million at a valuation up to $2.5 billion. A controversy then blew up when analytics firm Shenzhen Hurui and a Wechat official account known for their exposés of the tech industry published a blog post that claimed 85 percent — 18 out of 21 million — of Mafengwo’s user reviews were faked or plagiarized from other sites. Outrageously, some of them were so poorly plagiarized that they still retained the original website’s URL, or in other cases, scripts indicating that the review was translated using an online translator. Mafengwo immediately denied the accusations and even filed a lawsuit claiming defamation. Our co-host this week is Eva Woo, a former business journalist at SCMP, Bloomberg, and Caixin. Together with Eva, Rui and Ying-Ying unravel the tangle of accusations leveled against Mafengwo and explain why the company has taken such a strong stance against them (hint: its very business model depends on it). We also briefly go into why the purported victims from which Mafengwo was alleged to have plagiarized from — Dianping, Ctrip, et al. — haven’t made any complaints. Another hint: the entire industry could be guilty of such behavior based on questionable incentives, and plus, there exists an entire shadow paid-poster economy that is thriving, with the growing reliance on user-generated content as key building blocks for driving traffic. Listen to the newest episode of TechBuzz China and join Rui, Ying-Ying, and Eva in exploring: How did this exposé come about, and why are users so outraged? What can we learn from the Mafengwo incident and should we be more wary of the numbers coming out of other Chinese companies? What are the responsibilities of investors in such instances, or do they have reasons to be complicit in accommodating such bad behavior? As always, you can find these stories and more at pandaily.com. Let us know what you think of the show by leaving us an iTunes review, liking our Facebook page, and tweeting at us at @techbuzzchina to win some swag! Finally, a huge shoutout to our new listeners over at dealstreetasia.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ep. 26: The O2O Local Services War: Alibaba vs. Meituan? Part 2: Koubei Oct 23, 2018

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In episode 26 of TechBuzz China, co-hosts Ying-Ying Lu and Rui Ma discuss Koubei, rounding out a two-part deep-dive into the local services space in China. An Alibaba subsidiary, Koubei recently merged with ele.me, another Alibaba-owned (via acquisition) entity which was covered in episode 25 last week. Listeners will also hear from Ed Sander of ChinaTalk, a China trip leader and prolific writer on the topic of ecommerce and China. Rui and Ying-Ying tell the story of Koubei. Though the brand was started in 2004 by an early Alibaba employee, it was left for dead in 2011 before being revived in 2015 — for the explicit purpose of going after the local services market. The O2O market had reached only 4.4 percent penetration at the time, but already presented massive opportunity. When reborn, Koubei began with the F&B (food and beverage) restaurant business, but it always had grander ambitions — in fact, its very first press release said that it was eventually going to go into healthcare, supermarkets, and vending machines. Here, the story begins to overlap with Meituan’s F&B ambitions: both aspire to digitize every aspect of the restaurant dine-in experience, including using AI to shake up the entire spectrum of operations and customer experience, and introducing “smart restaurants.” However, the crux of the battle between Alibaba and Meituan extends beyond F&B. For both internet giants, the emergence of local services and new retail as a key business unit has been obvious. Listen to the newest episode of TechBuzz China and join our co-hosts and guest commentator in exploring: What can we predict following Meituan’s assertions that it expects to be “the most aggressive investor in the offline retail space”? How do concepts such as robots, consumer privacy, and cashierless stores fit into the picture? In what ways is China arguably leading the world in innovations in this market? How are Alibaba and rival Tencent’s divergent approaches to staking out ownership leading to different results in China’s latest tech battlefront? As always, you can find these stories and more at pandaily.com. Let us know what you think of the show by leaving us an iTunes review, liking our Facebook page, and tweeting at us at @techbuzzchina to win some swag! Finally, a huge shoutout to our new listeners over at dealstreetasia.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ep. 25: The O2O Local Services War: Alibaba vs. Meituan? Part 1: ele.me Oct 17, 2018

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In episode 25 of TechBuzz China, co-hosts Ying-Ying Lu and Rui Ma talk about Alibaba’s recent moves to firm up its strategy around local services, putting pressure on Meituan-Dianping to defend itself. This war of “O2O,” or online-to-offline, is shaping up to be intense, with the latest battle round seeing the merger between food delivery rival ele.me (which Alibaba acquired for $9.5 billion in April) and Alibaba’s new retail subsidiary, Koubei. This episode of TechBuzz is the first in a series of deep dives into the local services space in China. Rui and Ying-Ying begin with some background on Meituan’s “unstoppable roll” on its way to becoming the “Amazon of services” for China: the gargantuan super app is currently dominating several verticals including food delivery, movie ticket sales, bike sharing, and travel. However, its dominance is being challenged by Alibaba, and in the food delivery space this shows up in the form of the ecommerce giant’s support for and acquisition of ele.me. Rui and Ying-Ying tell the origin story of ele.me. The startup’s founder, former CEO, and now-Chairman Zhang Xuhao was a first year graduate student at Shanghai Jiaotong University when he started the company with five friends in 2008, back when entrepreneurship was considered rebellious and unconventional. The venture was self-funded for a few years before landing angel investment from GSR’s Allen Zhu, one of the best investors in China. Though ele.me grew quickly, it was still fairly small when it got its first big break — Dianping’s investment of $80 million, which allowed the startup to embark on an accelerated expansion plan. It went from 300 employees at the end of 2013 to 5000 at the end of 2014. By August 2015, with traffic from shareholder Dianping and additional investment from Tencent, ele.me was feeling like it was on top of the world. The story, however, doesn’t end there. Listen to the newest episode of TechBuzz China and join our co-hosts in exploring the rise of ele.me, its sale to Alibaba, and what’s happened since. What is in store for the company — and more importantly, for the future of local services in China? What is new retail, and why is it bleeding into local services? How do they reinforce each other, or do they? Why is there always a war on the Chinese internet, and who is going to win this one? As always, you can find these stories and more at pandaily.com. Let us know what you think of the show by leaving us an iTunes review, liking our Facebook page, and tweeting at us at @techbuzzchina to win some swag! Finally, a huge shoutout to our new listeners over at dealstreetasia.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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