Arts

Talkhouse Podcast

Your favorite musicians, filmmakers, and other creative minds one-on-one. No moderator, no script, no typical questions. The Talkhouse Podcast offers unique insights into creative work from all genres and generations. Explore more illuminating shows on the Talkhouse Podcast Network.

Latest Episodes:

Nobody's Ever Asked Me That: Kathryn Grody Oct 13, 2026

Show notes

On the latest episode of Nobody’s Ever Asked Me That, Nick Dawson sits down with actress and writer Kathryn Grody, who previously appeared on the podcast with her husband, Mandy Patinkin. In a wide-ranging, funny and sometimes emotional conversation timed to a new run of Grody’s new one-woman show The Unexpected 3rd, Grody talks about: the joys of wandering, a very memorable biking vacation through Ireland (that Mandy all but forced to her go on!), how humor miraculously helped her father survive the Normandy D-Day landings, why she prefers Sherman Oaks to Paris, the huge impact losing her parents in her mid 20s had on her, and much more.

Nobody’s Ever Asked Me That now has a Substack, so head there to check out all of our past episodes, plus subscribe to get access to exclusive audio and video content!

Jad Abumrad (Radiolab, Dolly Parton's America, Fela Kuti: Fear No Man) with Ashley Carman (Bloomberg) Oct 08, 2026

Show notes

Bloomberg journalist Ashley Carman sits down with Jad Abumrad (Fela Kuti: Fear No Man, Dolly Parton's America, Radiolab) for a career-spanning conversation.

Find more illuminating podcasts on the ⁠⁠⁠Talkhouse Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠. Visit ⁠⁠⁠talkhouse.com⁠⁠⁠ to read essays, reviews, and more. Sign up for our newsletter. Follow @talkhouse on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Twitter (X)⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Facebook, and Letterboxd.

Nobody's Ever Asked Me That: Jaboukie Young-White Oct 06, 2026

Show notes

On the latest episode of Nobody’s Ever Asked Me That, Nick Dawson sits down with popular comedian and actor Jaboukie Young-White, who is currently starring in the romantic comedy The Love Hypothesis. In a very funny and wide-ranging conversation, Young-White opens up about a diverse array of topics, including the French cultural quirk that he recently became addicted to, his wild dream about dung beetles (that may become the basis for a new kids movie), how he was “disrespectful” as an Inception-inspired lucid dreamer, his Jamaican grandmother’s amazing duppie story, the childhood sleepover prank that made people think he was a demon child, and much more.

Nobody’s Ever Asked Me That now has a Substack, so head there to check out all of our past episodes, plus subscribe to get access to exclusive audio and video content!

Pete Fij (Adorable) with Mark Gardener (Ride) Oct 01, 2026

Show notes

This week’s Talkhouse episode is a special deep dive for me, as it features two bands whose records from the ‘90s I was super into, talking about a really important record label, their various successes and failures, the steamroller of a bigger band called Oasis, and much more. It’s Mark Gardener and Pete Fij.

Mark Gardener was—and is, in fact—one of the two singer-guitarists for the band Ride, whose legendary status was cemented in the early 1990s with the advent of shoegaze. Their first two albums, Nowhere and Going Blank Again, are rightfully considered masterpieces of the genre. Things got a bit messy for Ride for a while after those records, though, as Gardener and his musical partner Andy Bell drifted apart, making a pair of wildly different records before eventually splitting up in the mid-'90s. But the Ride story has a happy ending: The increased interest in shoegaze led to a reunion tour in 2014, which led to some great new Ride records. Oh and not for nothing, but Bell actually joined Oasis on bass in 1999, and he’s been on tour with them playing massive shows recently. Here's a Ride classic, in case you're not familiar.

The other half of today’s conversation, Pete Fij, was also the singer of a highly touted band that signed to the legendary Creation Records label in the ‘90s and looked ready to conquer the world… but then didn’t. But despite the fact that things didn’t work out commercially for Adorable, their records are absolutely amazing—some of my favorite of that entire era, like a poppier Jesus and Mary Chain. It just goes to show that sometimes the best songs can get left behind when circumstances aren’t right. After Adorable’s breakup, Fij went on to release more great music with the band Polak, then entered a musical partnership with another Creation Records alumnus, Terry Bickers of House of Love. Now, 30-ish years later, Fij has just released his first proper solo album, called Up’s The New Down. It comes after a lot of downcast music in various guises, and feels like a reaction to it: It’s much more guitar-centered, upbeat, and positive. Those sentiments are reflected in this song: Check out “Love’s Coming Back” right here, and the album is out now.

This conversation starts with some catnip for Creation Records fans: Gardener and Fij talk about their experiences signing with the legendary label, specifically about their interactions with the notoriously enigmatic label head Alan McGee. And of course both bands were making records right when Creation Records signed Oasis, so that juggernaut changed things for everybody. Beyond that, these two chat about what they’ve been up to since—and how they feel differently about those times, even if they wouldn’t necessarily change a thing. Enjoy.

0:00 Intro

3:00 Start of conversation

3:19 On meeting Alan McGee and Creation Records

07:55 On developing trust with Alan

10:37 On Creation’s unique office

12:57 On Oasis’s impact

15:18 On feeling competitive with Oasis, and seeking guidance

19:13 On success and falling out with bandmates

23:05 On solo work vs. collaborative work

26:04 On 80s and 90s bands, making new music, and the creative process

30:41 On Shazaam, listening to each other’s new music, and younger generations finding their music

33:22 On the first songs they learned, music that influenced them, and band roles

36:48 On seeing gigs and playing with their heroes

39:20 On songwriting and emotion

41:53 On Adorable reuniting

48:33 On Ride’s comeback and what comes next

51:35 On rediscovering chemistry, and reflecting on why they love music

54:11 On defining success

56:53 On bands being nice to audiences

58:00 On Pete’s first solo album, and the experience of solo tours

1:01:23 On vocals, feeling nostalgic in Oxford, and Pete’s Coventry days

1:04:23 On historic sites and DJing together

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast, and thanks to Pete Fij and Mark Gardener for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform, and be sure to check out all the other great shows in our network. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

Find more illuminating podcasts on the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Talkhouse Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠talkhouse.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ to read essays, reviews, and more. ⁠Sign up for our newsletter⁠.

Follow @talkhouse on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter (X)⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠, and ⁠Letterboxd⁠.

Nobody's Ever Asked Me That: Vicky Krieps Sep 29, 2026

Show notes

On the first episode of the new season of Nobody’s Ever Asked Me That, Nick Dawson sits down with the hugely gifted actress Vicky Krieps, who is currently starring in Ryan Murphy’s Netflix true crime series Monster: The Lizzie Borden Story. In a fascinating conversation largely focused on Krieps’ unique perspective on life and the world, she talks about the restorative value of time in the wilds with her guitar, what her shoes say about her, how she created her own version of Jesus as a child, her dream in which she and Johnny Flynn removed their heads, how a banana split changed the course of her life, and much more.

Nobody’s Ever Asked Me That now has a Substack, so head there to check out all of our past episodes, plus subscribe to get access to exclusive audio and video content!

Kiwi Jr with Protomartyr Sep 24, 2026

Show notes

On this week’s Talkhouse Podcast we’re doubling the usual number of speakers for a two-on-two battle of wits between Joe and Greg of the band Protomartyr and Jeremy and Brohan of Kiwi Jr. They are all pals, and there was sass exchanged.

Protomartyr is a Detroit band that’s been around for about 15 years, sharpening their literate post-punk attacks over the course of seven great albums—a number that includes the brand new Hotel Usona, which offers a layered look at the depressing times we’re living through. The focus as always is on Joe Casey’s words and speak-sing: His voice has been a source of inspiration to other bands, to put it nicely, over the past decade. For Hotel Usona, Protomartyr linked up with producer Dave Fridmann, who’s made classic records with the Flaming Lips and MGMT, among many others, and he helped them create something almost overwhelmingly big and pointed. It can be a lot to take in, but it’s rewarding. Check out “Sounds We Cannot Hear” from Hotel Usona right here.

The other half of today’s conversation, Jeremy Gaudet and Brohan Moore from the band Kiwi Jr., play decidedly catchy indie-pop that’s tickled fans of Pavement for years, though Kiwi leans toward the poppier side of things than that comparison might imply. The Canadian band just released their fourth album, though it’s their first for the legendary K Records label. For my money, Blowin’ Up is their best yet: It’s smart and arch and easy to sing along with, but it’s also fun to dive in and parse what Jeremy Gaudet is singing about. Check out “Photos of The Reenactment” from Blowin’ Up right here.

In this funny chat, these four dudes—Jeremy and Brohan representing Kiwi Jr, Joe and guitarist Greg Ahee on the Protomartyr side—talk about old band photos, the ways their songs come together, and they reveal a secret about Joe Perry’s guitar. That’s Joe Perry from Aerosmith, not Steve Perry from Journey, as you’ll learn. It’s a fun one, enjoy.

0:00 Intro

02:54 Start of conversation

03:21 On Protomartyr’s new album, if they like Dune, The Odyssey, and bad tv

07:27 On album covers and The Eagles

10:34 On band photos and wigs

12:44 On the gap between Kiwi Jr’s records, delivery dates, and the recording process

15:46 On Joe Perry’s guitar, and playing other people’s guitars

19:09 On lyrics and poetry

21:11 On “sing talking,” rapping, Insane Clown Posse, and Danny Brown’s green room

24:16 On Dude Wipes and full-body deodorant for butts

26:53 On recording studios, the perfect milkshake, and Canadian billboards

29:51 On Bulk Barn, off-brand candies, buffets, and Big Boys

33:16 On collaborating together, song mixes, J Mascis, and more on Big Boy

35:30 Playing instruments vs. lyrics and vocals, and coming up with song titles

40:35 On working with producer David Fridmann, writing the music for Protomartyr’s album, and demoing with MIDI

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast, and thanks to Joe, Greg, Jeremy, and Brohan for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform, and check out all the great stuff at Talkhouse.com. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

Hamilton Leithauser (The Walkmen) with Rostam (Vampire Weekend) Sep 17, 2026

Show notes

On this week's Talkhouse Podcast we’ve got two guys who stepped away from their bigger bands and made an incredible record together 10 years ago. The occasion for this conversation isn’t just that album’s anniversary, but also the announcement of the duo’s first real tour behind it later this year. It’s Hamilton Leithauser and Rostam.

In 2016, when I Had A Dream That You Were Mine was released, Leithauser had already released one post-Walkmen solo album, and Rostam had just left Vampire Weekend. But the pair had known each other for quite a while before that: The Walkmen brought Vampire Weekend out as openers on one of their first tours, which you’ll hear about in this chat, back in 2008. Rostam, a guy well into production and songwriting in his own band, had even contributed to Leithauser’s first solo album, Black Hours.

So it seemed natural for the two to link up for a whole album, and between 2014 and 2016 they wrote and recorded I Had A Dream That You Were Mine, sometimes linking up in their shared hometown of Washington DC—parts of the record, as you’ll hear, we recorded in Rostam’s childhood home. Freed at least partially from the expectations associated with their other bands, the duo crafted a gorgeous pastiche that ended up sounding timeless: Sometimes it’s got early rock and roll vibes, sometimes it’s the Bob Dylan/Leonard Cohen energy Leithauser often hinted at, writ larger. It’s fantastic.

But because these guys had busy separate lives, they never really toured these songs together. That will change this November, with a band featuring, as you’ll hear in this chat, Rostam’s young guys. It’s a brief tour hitting mostly bigger U.S. cities, and I imagine it’ll be one of your only chances to see these songs performed live. You can find dates below, but in the meantime, check out the big single from I Had a Dream That You Were Mine. This is “A 1000 Times.”

In this delightful chat, Hamilton and Rostam talk about the few shows they played together—including an embarrassing flub that Rostam had forgotten. They also go through the writing process for most of the songs, which is fascinating, but not before a brief conversation about playing tennis. Enjoy.

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast, and thanks to Hamilton Leithauser and Rostam for chatting.

Tour Dates:

5 Washington DC - 9:30 Club

6 Philadelphia PA - World Cafe Live - Music Hall

7 Woodstock NY - Bearsville Theater

9 Brooklyn NY - Music Hall of Williamsburg

10 Brooklyn NY - Music Hall of Williamsburg

11 Somerville MA - Somerville Theatre

13 Toronto ON - The Concert Hall

14 Detroit MI - Saint Andrew’s Hall

15 Chicago IL - Thalia Hall

18 San Francisco CA - Castro Theatre

19 Los Angeles CA - Pacific Electric

If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform, and check out all the great stuff at Talkhouse.com. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme was composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

Chapters:

0:00 Intro

02:44 Start of conversation

3:03 On hotels, visiting each other, and memories of recording

04:13 On writing “The Morning Stars”, and songs that didn’t make the record

6:00 On when they became friends, “the worst studio mates of all time,” and smoking

8:37 On the first Vampire Weekend tours, opening for The Walkmen, and Pepperjack

11:19 On The Walkmen running out of gas on tour, dependable tour vans, and driving in Europe

13:33 Their tour announcement, recent shows, and Rostam’s embarrassing moment

15:48 On their Williamsburg Music Hall shows being released on streaming, and “In a Black Out”

17:19 On the BBC and Brits, upcoming European dates, and Hamilton’s plans for September and October

19:37 On playing tennis and restringing rackets

21:04 Reflecting on all of their collaborative songs in order, their processes and recording sessions, and their favorite instruments

28:47 On the journey of “The Morning Stars, the Bruce Springsteen song they wanted it to sound like, “Peaceful Morning,” and looking forward to the tour

Jakob Nowell (Sublime) with Yelawolf Sep 10, 2026

Show notes

On this week’s short but sweet Talkhouse episode—I might even call it a mini-sode—we’ve got a couple of guys at interesting points in their interesting careers. Both have been flirtatious with the mainstream, but not exactly in it. It’s Jakob Nowell and Yelawolf.

Jakob Nowell was still an infant when his dad, Bradley Nowell, died at just 28. Bradley was the frontman for the Southern California band Sublime, whose music would go on to reach a much wider audience not long after his death. The other two members of Sublime continued with a different singer, with varying degrees of success, while Jakob Nowell grew up and starting making music on his own. A couple of years back, Jakob got together with his dad’s old bandmates and reignited Sublime again—and the fact that his voice sounds remarkably like his dad’s made it a welcome transition for the band’s fans. This new Sublime recorded an album, which they say will be the band’s last, and they tour and play like crazy, including owning their own festival packed with reggae and punk-tinged fellow travelers.

Those fellow travelers include the other half of today’s conversation, Yelawolf, who will play a bunch of shows with Sublime this year, including the band’s cruise in November and a big amphitheater in Alabama next week. There aren’t many musicians who can claim collaborations with Ed Sheeran, Eminem, Travis Barker, A$AP Rocky and Tech 9, but the Nashville-based rapper can. He’s been around for a long time, and has always seemed like a musical seeker. His next album, 45, is coming out later this year, and it reportedly features no rapping at all. Check out the single “My Country” right here and see for yourself.

I caught these guys on a busy day and they didn’t chat very long, but I still felt like there was enough there to share: They chat about hanging out backstage with superstars at the Aftershock Festival, about potentially collaborating in the future—they even have a dream third member of their trio in mind—and about Jakob’s emotional trips to the last venue his father ever played. Check it out.

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast, and thanks to Jakob Nowell and Yelawolf for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform, and check out all the great stuff we’ve got going at Talkhouse.com. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

0:00 Intro

02:40 Start of conversation

02:48 On Sublime’s cross-genre appeal, and on Jakob joining Sublime

05:21 On Jakob visiting the last theater his dad ever played at

06:49 On Yelawolf’s current tour and experiencing different music scenes and crowds on tours

08:34 On wanting to collaborate together and mixing genres

09:35 On touring together, how they met at Aftershock, and meeting music legends at the festival

11:37 On wanting to play with Les Claypool

12:05 On their plans for the rest of 2026 and 2027, and wanting to visit each other

Ben Gibbard (Death Cab For Cutie) with Bob Mould Sep 03, 2026

Show notes

On this week’s episode, we’ve got a pair of absolute legends and friends who’ve both been on the show before, but never together. It’s Ben Gibbard and Bob Mould. I’m not sure if either of these guys needs an introduction at this point, but here goes.

Ben Gibbard is the singer, guitarist, and primary songwriter for the band Death Cab For Cutie, with whom he’s been making thoughtful, gorgeous, heartfelt indie-rock for nearly 30 years now. Death Cab made its way out of the underground and into the mainstream with 2003’s epic Transatlanticism, and 2003 was also the year that birthed Gibbard’s unexpectedly massive side project The Postal Service. But while those two records might get a lot of the glory, Death Cab has a deep, rich catalog that continues to grow and thrive to this day. The band’s latest album, I Built You a Tower, came out earlier this year, and it sits comfortably with their best. As you’ll hear in this chat, he’s not ashamed to play the hits while still committing himself to writing great new songs as well. Check out “Riptides” from I Built You a Tower right here.

The other half of today’s conversation, Bob Mould, has clearly had an influence on Gibbard—among literally hundreds, maybe thousands, of other musicians and songwriters over the years. Mould came crashing out of the gate with his band Hüsker Dü in the late 1970s, pioneering the sort of furious yet melodic punk that would define its era and whose sound reverberates to this day. After Hüsker Dü split in the late ‘80s, Mould embarked on a more contemplative solo period—pioneering the punk-goes-acoustic thing—before, in 1992, forming a trio called Sugar with David Barbe and Malcolm Travis. Sugar was the biggest commercial success of Mould’s career, and for good reason: The band’s two albums distilled his greatest strengths. Sugar didn’t last long, but reformed just last year and have been playing triumphant gigs ever since. You can catch them on tour this year, including at Chicago’s Riot Fest. I have barely scratched the surface of Mould’s life and career, so forgive me for that.

In this great conversation, these two chat about revisiting old albums and the question of “fan service,” about how they discover new music as they get older, and about how they prepare their bodies and brains for being on the road. It’s a fun chat, and I hope you enjoy it.

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast and thanks to Ben Gibbard and Bob Mould for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform and check out all the great stuff at Talkhouse.com. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

0:00 Intro

02:37 Start of conversation

02:53 On touring and adjusting to life at home again

06:20 On coming home to family after touring

07:10 On Death Cab’s current tour, and bus tours vs. plane tours

09:01 On Bob’s longevity as a performer, and his other career paths

11:20 On staying in shape to tour, and feeling grateful

13:19 On Bob’s energetic performances and physicality

14:23 On doing “rock moves” onstage, and injuries

17:32 On the pros and cons of discovering music through streaming, file-sharing, or physical media

22:16 On living under “an avalanche of music” and why some music does or doesn’t connect

24:01 Why less new music connects with Ben and Bob as they get older

26:32 On how musical identities, genres, and rules have changed

29:12 On finding time to listen to new music, finding new influences from different genres, and “taking inspiration from myself”

33:52 On fitting influences, inspirations, and elements together into a new song and reinterpretation

36:22 On the cons of songwriting publishing disputes and the value of intellectual property

38:08 On David Eggers, protecting art from AI, and the “alchemy and magic” of creating

39:42 On feeling satisfied by making music for yourself, and handing off demos

41:48 On why they’re driven to write songs, and “selfish” reasons to create

44:07 On reflecting on their past work, the importance of “fan service” concerts, and the cultural impact of Transatlanticism

47:57 On connecting with your past self through “album play” shows

50:11 On being the “vessel” for work that deeply connects with people over time

51:43 On Hüsker Dü, solo work, and record label experiences

54:49 On Ben’s birthday, and upcoming shows

Johanna Samuels with Madison Cunningham Aug 27, 2026

Show notes

On this week’s Talkhouse Podcast, we’ve got a pair of fantastic music makers who also happen to be… women in music. That’s their joke, not mine—you’ll hear. It’s Johanna Samuels and Madison Cunningham.

Though she’s from New York, Johanna Samuels’ music has always had West Coast vibes—it makes perfect sense that she now calls Los Angeles home. Her latest album, Sorry, Kid, just came out, and it’s got an interesting backstory: The songs were written years ago but never finished, and there were false starts making them work this time around. But she found a great collaborator in Jonathan Rado—you’ll hear her refer to “Rado” a bunch in this chat—and finally broke through to a stunning set of mellow, downcast songs. You’ll hear the influence of Aimee Mann, Tom Petty, Elliott Smith—if those are your thing, give it a close listen.

The other half of today’s conversation, Madison Cunningham, plays a little bit on Samuels’ record. The two are old friends, and you may have heard Cunningham in a variety of disparate places over the years: She played with Andrew Bird, and the two covered the lone Buckingham-Nicks album together. She’s toured with big names, including Harry Styles. Her 2022 album, Revealer, won the Grammy for Best Folk Album. Cunningham’s third album, Ace, was released late last year, and it’s a winning left turn—less guitar, more piano, a little weirder than ever before. Check out the Samuels’ track “Rare,” which features some playing and singing from Cunningham.

This episode was recorded with our guests in the same room, and you can hear the friendly energy these two have. They joke around about being “women in music” as well as the long road to Samuels’ album, Fiona Apple, Tom Petty, and much, much more. I hope you enjoy listening as much as they did recording.

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast, and thanks to Johanna Samuels and Madison Cunningham for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform, and check out all the other great shows in our network. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

0:00 Intro

2:18 Start of convo

2:20 On “women having a moment” in music, and Pitchfork’s mean reviews

3:51 On their newest albums, seeing how art comes out of each others’ lives, and artistic phases

7:01 On releasing songs after the inspiring emotion has passed, mental health, and using songs to process emotions

09:22 On the joy of creation, tarot cards, and the addictive qualities of the creative process

12:17 On the recording process, and finding the sound and lyrics

13:46 On Tom Petty, finding inspiration from great songs, simple lyrics, and cover songs

17:05 On learning to write songs by dissecting other songs, inspiring each other, and deceptively simple pop songs

20:45 On the timeline of making an album, the “Sha Sha Redemption,” and the importance of fun

25:06 On humor and self-awareness in sad songs

28:09 On their “women are having a moment” joke, dealing with anger, and not wanting to be known for one emotion

29:43 On how male songwriters approach expressing emotions differently, and if being hot makes for shallower art

33:58 On being grounded, loving life, discomfort, and feeling free to make new art

37:24 On other artists’ paths and growth, and being willing to try new things

Find more illuminating podcasts on the ⁠⁠⁠Talkhouse Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠, and visit ⁠⁠⁠talkhouse.com⁠⁠⁠ to read essays, reviews, and more. Don't miss the latest from your favorite artists: subscribe to the Talkhouse newsletter to receive weekly highlights in your inbox.

Follow @talkhouse on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Twitter (X)⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠.

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