Episode 7: Flat Earth Exit the Matrix Expo
Jun 01, 2019
Show notes
In this episode, I report back from my trip to the “Exit the Matrix” Flat Earth Expo in Las Vegas, where I gave a presentation, had a debate, and talked to a lot of Flat Earth believers.
It was an experience that was unusual, revealing, and entertaining. The flat Earth folk were, on the whole, very nice and fun to talk to. I came away with the sense that their lack of understanding was very genuine, that they were in many case not trolling. I also found that communication was possible. Of course, they are very resistant, and individuals vary, but people were not automatically rejecting what I said. I didn’t convert anyone that I know of, but I think I at least made them think about a few things. I will follow up with the people I met, and hope to have some on future podcasts.
At 3:30 I mention that “IPS” uses the name “Tim Ozman” the same (phonetically) as the person I interviewed last week (“Tim Osman”). This is not the same person, just the same name (ironic use of the name of a CIA agent who supposedly pretended to be Osama bin Laden).
Exit the Matrix Expo Information: http://archive.is/3ETwh
“Mad” Mike Hughes – https://madmikehughes.com/
Russell Dibird, Flat Earth Media Group http://www.femg.com/
Shelley Lewis – Flat Earth Radio – http://ferlive.com/
Chris Pontius (F.E. Models) – https://flatearthmodels.com
Episode 6: Tim Osman, Debunker and Conspiracist
May 29, 2019
Show notes
I first became aware of “Tim Osman” from his work debunking the Flat Earth theory. He’s done some amazing work there with highly visual demonstrations of the curve of the Earth using drone footage. But when I asked if I could use some of that footage he declined, and later berated me on his channel. It turned out he did not like my debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories, because he is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist (although he disputes the term.)
I asked him for an interview, and he agreed, with no video, and with him live-streaming it to his channel. It starts out a bit adversarial and the first half is largely him grilling me about my beliefs. But we eventually agree on a little common ground, which is always a great first step in genuine communication.
Episode 5: Dan, Former Apocalyptic Prepper
May 20, 2019
Show notes
Dan used to be convinced that some kind of drastic collapse of society was just around the corner. He was prepared for this, stockpiling food and supplies, and watching all the lastest prepper/survivalist videos on YouTube, as well as making his own videos about what was going to happen. When Obama came to power he received and initially believed dire warnings that some kind of society “reset” was imminent. But then nothing happened, and he gradually realized that probably nothing was happening, and all the worrying about it was a waste of time and having a bad effect on his life. So he stopped, deleted all his videos, and stopped consuming conspiracy theories. He’s a lot happier now.
Episode 4: Stian Arnesen, the 9/11 Alaska Report and the Science of 9/11
May 15, 2019
Show notes
In this second part of my extended conversation with Stian Arnesen (first part here) we delve deeper into 9/11. Firstly we discuss the Alaska report on World Trade Center Building 7. This is a report by Prof. Leroy Hulsey ,paid for by Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, a group that promotes the conspiracy theory that the World Trade Center was destroyed with pre-planted explosives. The report is intended to prove that fire alone could not be responsible for the collapse. Stian has been corresponding with various members of AE911Truth for a while, and has something of an inside perspective on what to expect.
Following on from this we discuss why it’s so hard to get serious scientists to look into the science behind conspiracy theory claims. I relate my experience with doing a study of scientist’s beliefs about Chemtrails.
In the second half of this episode Stian brings up a number of questions he still has about how the World Trade center collapsed the way it did. I try to explain.
Episode 3: Stian Arnesen, 9/11, Crop Circles, and Debunkers
May 13, 2019
Show notes
Stian Arensen has been involved in the 9/11 Truth community for a number of years, and in the last year or so has been questioning some of the underpinnings of that community. Stian has also been very interested in topics such as crop circles and UFOs.
We discuss how Stian’s thinking has evolved over time, and examine the parallels between the various communities – in particular we look at the effects of questioning the group consensus, and how it can lead to exclusion from a group unwilling to move forward.
Stian also questions me about my debunking, and some things I’ve said in the past, and I try to explain.
Episode 2: Mike Rothschild, discussing QAnon
May 03, 2019
Show notes
Mike Rothschild is a journalist, researcher, debunker of conspiracy theories and fringe beliefs, and an expert on the QAnon theory.
QAnon is a bizarre, fascinating, and dangerous conspiracy theory that is astonishing in its scope and complexity. It revolves around a person or group named “Q” who is supposedly high up in the Trump administration (possibly even Trump himself) who is leaking clues about upcoming events as part of a grand scheme to fight the deep state and a political and Hollywood elite of democrats and pedophiles.
In this episode Mike discusses the origins of QAnon, where it is now, why people still believe in it despite a failure to deliver, and where it’s going in the future.
Episode 1: Introduction & The Ex Conspiracy Theorist
Apr 20, 2019
Show notes
In this first episode of Tales from the Rabbit Hole, I give a brief introduction and then talk to my first guest, Jon, an ex-conspiracy theorist
Tales from the Rabbit Hole is an interview-style podcast focusing on people whose lives have been affected by the conspiracy theory rabbit hole. Guests include both former and current believers in a variety of conspiracy theories, as well as debunkers, skeptics, and the investigators of those theories.
I’m Mick West, a debunker. I wrote the book Escaping the Rabbit Hole – How to Debunk Conspiracy Theories using Facts, Logic, and Respect. This book came from my experiences running Metabunk – a debunking Forum. Over the years I realized simply presenting corrections to people is not enough. We need effective communication, and we can’t do that if we don’t listen and talk with each other. I’m hoping this podcast will help bridge that gap.
EX CONSPIRACY THEORIST
My first guest is Jon, an ex conspiracy theorist who runs the Facebook Group “The Ex Conspiracy Theorist.” Jon talks about how he became a conspiracy theorist, and how it relates to his religious past as a Mormon. He discusses the things that initially convinced him, like Glenn Beck theories about Obama’s “Czars”, the “New World Order,” and how he came to realize those things were not what Alex Jones said they were.
Jon is now very active online on Facebook and his blog. Since we’ve recorded this he’s also started a Twitter account.
It’s a short first episode, and I hope to have Jon on again for a more extended conversation about his debunking work.