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    Technology

    Sub Club by RevenueCat

    Interviews with the experts behind the biggest apps in the App Store. Hosts David Barnard and Jacob Eiting dive deep to unlock insights, strategies, and stories that you can use to carve out your slice of the ‘trillion-dollar App Store opportunity’.

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    Copyright: © 2023 RevenueCat

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    Latest Episodes:
    How to Time Reactivation Campaigns for Maximum Impact — Jackson Shuttleworth, Duolingo Mar 06, 2025
    Show notes

    This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.


    On the podcast: Keeping users engaged through habit-forming experiences, Duolingo’s approach to reactivating churned users, and why building daily habits is the foundation for long-term retention success.


    Top Takeaways:


    🏎️ Act fast - most users don’t come back after a week
    The best time to re-engage a churned user is within the first three to four days. Duolingo found that users who stay away for longer become significantly harder to bring back. They send daily reminders for up to seven days, stopping when effectiveness drops.


    📅 Use behavioral signals to personalize timing
    Instead of relying on fixed schedules, time win-back messages based on past engagement patterns. Duolingo schedules reminders 23.5 hours after a user last engaged, ensuring notifications land at a moment when the user is most likely to take action.

    👥 Use social connections for long-term reactivation
    For users who have been inactive for weeks or months, social reactivation beats app-driven outreach. Duolingo prompts active users to bring back their friends, which consistently outperforms standard win-back campaigns - even leaderboard competitors drive higher reactivation rates than app reminders.


    About Jackson Shuttleworth:

    🌟 Head of Retention at Duolingo, focused on keeping users engaged and driving daily habit formation through innovative features and thoughtful strategies.

    📈 Jackson brings expertise in user reactivation, data-driven experiments, and crafting experiences that foster long-term loyalty and growth.


    💡 "The easiest way to retain a user is to never let them churn. It’s all about building habits and delivering value consistently."


    👋 Connect with Jackson on LinkedIn!


    Resources:

    • Duolingo’s Website


    Follow us on X:

    • David Barnard - @drbarnard
    • Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
    • RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
    • SubClub - @SubClubHQ



    How to Turn Gamification Into a Retention Powerhouse — Anton Derlyatka, Sweatcoin Mar 05, 2025
    Show notes

    On the podcast, I talk with Anton about building sustainable viral growth loops at scale, how to effectively gamify user incentives, and why emotional connections drive more value than economic ones.

    Top Takeaways:

    🚀 Building sustainable virality through strategic growth loops

    Sweatcoin’s explosive growth didn’t happen by chance. Anton detailed how they engineered a viral engine through a combination of influencer-driven groundswell, controlled user-to-user invites, and strategic use of organic boosts. By balancing short viral spikes with long-term retention strategies, Sweatcoin has maintained stability and continued scaling without relying on traditional paid acquisition.

    🎮 Gamification redefined: Turning steps into currency
    Unlike traditional gamification tactics, Sweatcoin reframes users’ steps into a virtual currency, creating a balance they feel emotionally invested in. This subtle but powerful shift motivates users to keep walking—not just for rewards but to maintain and grow their “wealth.” It’s less about streaks and badges, and more about building perceived value.

    ❤️ Emotional connections outweigh economic incentives
    Anton shared a fascinating insight: Sweatcoin users valued their own coins up to 50 times more than they’d pay for someone else’s. This shows the power of emotional connection and personal investment. By helping users see value in their own activity, Sweatcoin taps into a deeper motivational layer than just financial incentives.

    🔄 Retention through positive habits, not guilt
    Sweatcoin’s success is partly due to its focus on positive reinforcement rather than guilt-based nudges. By emphasizing natural daily habits and offering fun, valuable incentives, Sweatcoin maintains high retention without making users feel pressured or judged. This approach resonates with a broader audience, including the 70% of people who struggle with intrinsic motivation for fitness.


    📈 From freemium to subscription—scaling with intent
    Instead of starting with hard paywalls, Sweatcoin built a value-packed free tier that users love. This created a loyal, engaged user base before introducing premium features like ad-free experiences and advanced fitness tools. By establishing this solid foundation, Sweatcoin avoids the pitfalls of high customer acquisition costs and effectively bridges the gap from free to paid without alienating users.


    About Anton Derlyatka:

    👟 Co-founder & CEO of Sweatcoin, the app that turns movement into currency—used by 180M+ people worldwide.

    🎯 Anton built one of the most viral fitness apps by rethinking incentives, gamification, and how people form habits.

    💡 “We’re not born to be active—we’re born to be lazy. The challenge is building an experience that makes movement rewarding.”

    👋 LinkedIn


    Follow us on X:

    • David Barnard - @drbarnard
    • Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
    • RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
    • SubClub - @SubClubHQ

    How to Maximize Revenue with Regional Pricing — Dmitry Gurski, Flo Mar 04, 2025
    Show notes

    This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.


    On the podcast: why the Big Mac Index falls short for app pricing, how Flo Health’s regional pricing strategy drives profitable user acquisition in emerging markets, and the importance of aligning pricing with long-term user retention for sustainable growth.

    Top Takeaways:

    💭 Know your audience - not just the economy
    Don’t rely on basic indexes like the Big Mac Index. Instead, understand your audience in each region. For example, iOS users in emerging markets are typically wealthier than Android users, so pricing should reflect each platform’s unique audience.

    💸 Test prices with a focus on revenue, not conversion
    Measure pricing success by average revenue per user (ARPU), not just conversion rates. Lower prices can boost retention and unlock profitable user acquisition by winning more auctions through better conversion signals.

    🌎 Adapt to cultural norms and changing habits
    Price sensitivity varies by culture and is influenced by local norms. Streaming giants like Spotify and Netflix are paving the way for digital subscriptions globally. Monitor cultural shifts and adapt pricing strategies accordingly.


    About Dmitry Gurski:
    🌍 CEO and Co-Founder of Flo Health, Dmitry Gurski leads the world’s largest health app, with 73 million monthly active users globally and a mission-driven approach to health and wellness.

    📊 Dmitry is an expert in regional pricing strategies, leveraging extensive experimentation to optimize average revenue per user (ARPU) while maintaining accessibility. Under his leadership, Flow has achieved remarkable revenue growth by tailoring subscription models to meet diverse market dynamics worldwide.

    💡 "When people can’t pay, it’s almost sinful to block access. Flow’s mission is to empower women globally, whether through paid or gifted subscriptions. Pricing isn’t about conversions—it’s about maximizing long-term value while staying true to our purpose."

    👋 Connect with Dmitry on LinkedIn!

    Resources:

    • Flo Health
    • Careers at Flo


    Follow us on X:

    • David Barnard - @drbarnard
    • Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
    • RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
    • SubClub - @SubClubHQ

    How to Optimize Trial-to-Paid Conversions — Rachel Chukura, The Weather Company Mar 03, 2025
    Show notes

    This episode is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report.

    On the podcast: balancing freemium and premium experiences, how The Weather Company uses AI to predict subscriber behavior, and why focusing on user value rather than monetization is the key to subscription success.


    Top Takeaways


    🎯Target high-value users with personalized experiences
    Identify your most valuable cohorts through deep segmentation and user research. Tailor paywalls and premium features to resonate with each segment’s needs, maximizing conversion rates without alienating casual users.


    🌍Leverage contextual triggers and data-driven targeting
    Use contextual signals (like weather data) and AI propensity models to reach users at the right moment. This makes paywall prompts more relevant and effective, driving higher conversions while maintaining a positive user experience.


    ⌨️Test, learn, and iterate continuously
    Adopt a rigorous approach to A/B testing with clear hypotheses and well-defined KPIs. Be patient and run experiments long enough to account for external variables. Regularly refine AI models and adapt strategies based on evolving user behaviors and market conditions.


    About Rachel Chukura:

    🌦️ Head of Consumer Product at The Weather Company, specializing in driving subscription growth and balancing freemium and paid user experiences.

    📊 Rachel has a deep expertise in leveraging data analytics, user research, and AI propensity models to optimize conversion strategies while maintaining a seamless and valuable customer experience.

    💡 "We don’t lead with monetization—it’s an outcome of creating a truly useful and performant experience for our users. It’s all about meeting them where they are and delivering value when it matters most."

    👋 Connect with Rachel on LinkedIn!


    Resources:

    • The Weather Company website


    Follow us on X:

    • David Barnard - @drbarnard
    • Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
    • RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
    • SubClub - @SubClubHQ

    The Right (and Wrong) Way to Grow with Google App Campaigns — Ashley Black, Candid Consulting Feb 19, 2025
    Show notes

    On the podcast I talk with Ashley about what makes Google App Campaigns so effective for growth, proven optimization strategies, and why lower CPMs can sometimes be a warning sign rather than a win.

    Top Takeaways:

    📈 Google App Campaigns: Big reach, but fewer levers to pull
    Google’s ad platform delivers massive scale - search, YouTube, the Play Store - but hands much of the control to machine learning. That tradeoff can work in your favor, but only if you guide the system with structured testing, smart bidding, and strong creative input.

    🎯 Lower CPMs aren’t always a reason to celebrate
    Lower ad costs might look good on paper, but they often mean your ads are running in lower-quality placements. Understanding where Google is serving your ads - whether in search, display, or YouTube - helps you avoid cheap but ineffective traffic.

    🚀 Scaling requires patience, not just budget
    Google’s algorithm doesn’t respond well to drastic changes. Scaling too fast can throw off performance, leading to unstable results. The best approach? Increase budgets by 20% every few days to give the system time to adjust.

    🔍 Creative testing looks different on Google - play the game accordingly

    Unlike Meta, Google doesn’t allow direct A/B testing for creatives. That doesn’t mean you can’t optimize. The best way to guide the algorithm? Set up multiple ad groups with distinct creative themes, then monitor what Google prioritizes.

    💡 Google Ads on iOS: A challenge, but still worth it

    Google’s iOS campaigns rely heavily on search and YouTube, but ATT and SKAdNetwork make tracking conversions trickier. Google fills in gaps with modeled conversions, but advertisers need to understand the discrepancies between Google’s reports and their MMPs.


    About Ashley Black

    👨‍💻 Founder of Candid Consulting, an agency specializing in helping apps run effective marketing campaigns for Android and iOS.

    🎶 Ashley spent years at Google leading app ad strategy, helping developers scale through machine learning, user acquisition, and optimization.

    💡 “If you have an app and you’re starting to think about how you actually pay to get users to download that app, you’re probably going to start looking at Google.”

    👋 LinkedIn


    Level Up Your App Marketing: Measurement, Brand-Building, and Taking Risks — Sherina Khalidi, Deezer Feb 05, 2025
    Show notes

    On the podcast I talk with Sherina about why performance marketing eventually hits a ceiling, how to think about measure brand marketing, and why sometimes ignoring A/B test results leads to better outcomes.

    Top Takeaways:
    📈Freemium can’t feel cheap

    Deezer once took a hardline approach to converting free users – limiting features to push them toward paid plans. The result? Users didn’t upgrade; they just left. The best freemium models strike a balance: give users real value, build habit and trust, then make the premium experience feel like a natural next step.

    💡Bundles and partnerships – growth without the ad spend
    Instead of relying solely on ads, Deezer fuels growth through partnerships. Deals with telcos, hardware companies, and retailers like Sonos and Mercado Libre help put the app in front of millions of potential users. Bundling subscriptions with other services doesn’t just expand reach – it makes premium features feel like a built-in perk rather than an extra cost.

    🎯Performance marketing won’t scale on its own
    Performance marketing can be an incredible growth engine – until it isn’t. As Deezer scaled, Sherina Khalidi saw firsthand how it eventually hits a ceiling. Brand marketing plays a crucial role in breaking through, keeping Deezer top of mind so performance campaigns can work more efficiently. Without that balance, acquisition costs rise, and growth stalls.

    🚀Measuring brand marketing when the usual tools fall short
    Traditional attribution models struggle to capture the impact of brand marketing. At Deezer, Sherina and her team use a mix of media mix modeling, incrementality testing, and brand lift studies to fill in the gaps. Even when direct tracking isn’t possible, data-backed decisions still are.

    🔍Why ignoring A/B test results sometimes leads to better outcomes
    A/B tests can be powerful, but they don’t always tell the full story. When Deezer tested new homepage designs, the data suggested sticking with an old, cluttered version – but Sherina’s team knew it wasn’t the right long-term choice. By trusting their instincts and focusing on user experience, they saw better results over time. Sometimes, the best decisions aren’t the ones that win the test.


    About Sherina

    👨‍💻 VP of Performance Marketing at Deezer, a popular music and audio streaming platform.

    🎶 Sherina has spent nearly a decade at Deezer, driving sustainable growth through freemium, performance marketing, and strategic partnerships.

    💡 “Freemium only works if it’s actually free. Take away too much, and users won’t upgrade—they’ll just leave. The best freemium models build habit and trust before making the upsell.”

    👋 LinkedIn


    Follow us on X:

    • David Barnard - @drbarnard
    • Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
    • RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
    • SubClub - @SubClubHQ


    Episode Highlights:
    [1:10] Capitalizing on the opportunity: How Deezer took advantage of a cultural shift to become one of the pioneers of monthly subscriptions in the music industry.
    [3:37] Changing their tune: Why the Deezer team pivoted from trying to frustrate users into paying for a subscription to leveraging strategic advertising partnerships.
    [10:23] A David and Goliath story: How Deezer competes with large audio streaming brands like Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Apple Music, and Spotify.
    [16:12] Playing the long game: Brand marketing may not provide immediate returns in revenue, but a solid brand image and positive user sentiment make performance marketing more effective.
    [24:47] Measurement re-mix: How media mix modeling and incrementality testing can help you understand the effects of your marketing efforts better than basic tracking and attribution.
    [34:16] Calculated risks: To succeed with performance marketing, you have to be willing to innovate, test, and learn from failure.
    [38:32] Gut instinct: Data can help you understand what is and isn’t working, but it can also be misleading — sometimes you just have to trust your instincts.
    [40:36] Knowing your audience: How user-centricity can help you make better marketing decisions.


    Bootstrapping a Subscription App to 5M MAU and 2X+ Revenue Growth — Bruno Virlet, Genius Scan Jan 22, 2025
    Show notes

    On the podcast we talk with Bruno about putting customers ahead of metrics, why there’s still massive opportunity to build successful apps today, and how a server crash turned into an accidentally successful A/B test.

    Top Takeaways:
    📈 The app ecosystem still holds massive opportunities
    Developers often assume the app market is saturated, but it continues to evolve with new possibilities. Technologies like AI, AR, and better hardware create untapped opportunities for developers who are willing to innovate. Even in mature categories, developers can find success by solving specific user problems and offering unique value. Genius Scan’s long journey from a dorm-room project to a 5M MAU business shows that with the right focus, developers can still thrive in the app economy.

    💡 Putting customers ahead of metrics builds better businesses
    Focusing on user needs over short-term KPIs creates stronger, longer-lasting businesses. Genius Scan avoids manipulative monetization tactics, instead building trust through transparent pricing and responsive support. By prioritizing the customer experience, the team has cultivated loyalty and word-of-mouth growth, proving that a people-first approach can lead to sustainable success.


    🎯 Simplified pricing boosts revenue without hurting adoption
    Bold pricing experiments can yield surprising results. When Genius Scan consolidated its subscription offerings by removing the lower-priced tier, the number of daily purchases remained the same, but revenue tripled as users gravitated toward the higher-tier option. This proves that users value premium offerings when they deliver meaningful value. Streamlining pricing not only simplifies decisions for customers but also creates opportunities for businesses to maximize revenue while maintaining adoption.

    🚀 Small changes can drive big results in app performance
    An accidental server crash led Genius Scan to discover that simpler banner text converted twice as well as their original messaging. By intentionally testing the change, they uncovered a small tweak with outsized results. This underscores the power of continuous experimentation—businesses can uncover growth opportunities by testing everything from messaging to UX design.

    🔍 Bootstrapped success proves apps can thrive without funding
    Indie developers can compete with tech giants by delivering specialized features that go beyond the basics offered by platform-native tools. Genius Scan, with its advanced scanning and export functionality, demonstrates how bootstrapped businesses can thrive by solving real problems for specific audiences. Building a sustainable business doesn’t always require outside funding—it requires focus, persistence, and delivering meaningful value to users.

    About Bruno Virlet

    🚀 Co-founder of Genius Scan, one of the earliest and best scanning apps for smartphones, bringing advanced document scanning to millions of users worldwide.


    📄 Bruno Virlet started Genius Scan with his roommate as a fun side project during their time at the University of Illinois, turning a simple idea into a 15-year journey of bootstrapped success.


    💡 “We didn’t want to be entrepreneurs—we just wanted to build something useful. It was about creating an app we’d want to use ourselves. That’s still the ethos driving us today.”


    🔧 Through continuous experimentation (even accidental A/B tests!), Bruno has grown Genius Scan to 5 million monthly active users—all while staying true to a customer-first approach.


    👋 LinkedIn


    Resources:

    • The Grizzly Labs
    • Genius Scan

    Follow us on X:

    • David Barnard - @drbarnard
    • Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
    • RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
    • SubClub - @SubClubHQ


    Episode Highlights:

    [00:00] The Genius Scan journey begins: How a side project in a university dorm room grew into one of the most successful scanning apps with 5 million monthly active users.

    [02:09] Pivoting early: The original idea was scanning paintings in museums, but technical and market constraints led to a shift toward document scanning.

    [05:38] A stroke of luck: How a canceled trip and a refund led Bruno to buy a MacBook and develop the first version of Genius Scan in just six weeks.

    [07:26] App Store beginnings: Launching Genius Scan as a free app in 2010 and watching it skyrocket in the rankings before experimenting with monetization.

    [13:45] Competing with tech giants: How Genius Scan stays relevant and competitive despite Apple and Google introducing native scanning features.

    [19:50] Customer-first philosophy: Why Genius Scan focuses on user experience and avoids dark patterns, keeping features accessible without sacrificing long-term user trust.

    [26:43] Experimenting with subscriptions: The shift from one-time purchases to subscription models, and how removing a lower-tier option increased revenue without affecting conversion.

    [43:56] The accidental A/B test: A server issue revealed how minor changes in paywall text and presentation doubled conversions.

    [50:05] Learning from feedback: How staying close to users through direct support drives product improvements and reinforces customer loyalty.

    [57:45] Building a company for the long term: Bruno reflects on balancing growth, profitability, and personal priorities, emphasizing the value of independence and sustainable success.



    Making Web2App Work: From Basic Landing Pages to Complex Sales Funnels — Nathan Hudson, Perceptycs Jan 08, 2025
    Show notes

    On the podcast we talk with Nathan about the strategic opportunity of web2app, how and when to use web2app, and why one app found success using webinars in their web2app funnel.

    Top Takeaways:
    🔑 Web-to-app opens up opportunities for small apps
    Smaller apps can use web-to-app strategies to improve cash flow, gain better attribution data, and test acquisition campaigns with smaller budgets. It’s an effective way to experiment with paid growth without relying solely on app store mechanics.

    🎯 Gain full control over the user journey
    Web-to-app lets developers craft highly personalized and seamless user journeys. Build onboarding flows, quizzes, and paywalls tailored to your users, free from app store restrictions.

    🌎 Reach untapped audiences with web-first content
    Web-to-app opens the door to users who don’t convert directly through app ads. Channels like blogs, gated content, or webinars are excellent for capturing lower-intent users and nurturing them into app subscribers over time.

    💸 Increase revenue with smarter sales tactics
    Web-to-app enables upsells, cross-sells, and product bundling that aren’t always feasible in-app. This strategy is particularly effective for higher ticket subscriptions or apps looking to diversify revenue streams.

    📣 Leverage unique channels to drive growth
    Web-to-app expands the range of channels you can use effectively, from influencer campaigns with trackable links to affiliate partnerships, YouTube ads, and beyond. Each channel provides new ways to engage users at different stages of the funnel.

    About Nathan Hudson

    • 👨‍💻 Founder & CEO of Perceptycs, a growth consultancy specializing in web-to-app strategies that drive user acquisition, retention, and revenue for mobile apps.
    • 👥 Nathan Hudson is passionate about helping apps reach their full growth potential by leveraging personalized user journeys, strategic web funnels, and creative acquisition channels tailored to their unique goals.
    • 💡 “A huge advantage of web-to-app is how much control you have. You’re not locked into the app store’s rules—you can fully tailor the experience, from onboarding questions to paywalls, in ways that resonate with your users”
    • 👋 LinkedIn

    Resoureces:

    • Perceptycs Website

    Follow us on X:

    • David Barnard - @drbarnard
    • Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
    • RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
    • SubClub - @SubClubHQ


    Episode Highlights:

    [3:01] What does web-to-app mean?: Nathan Hudson explains the concept as converting traffic on the web or starting on the web before directing users to the app.

    [5:28] Web-to-app strategies for different use cases: Nathan highlights common approaches such as quizzes, blog posts, and webinars to drive user engagement and app downloads.

    [6:31] Defining web-to-app: Jacob Eiting describes it as using the web as part of either an acquisition or retention funnel.

    [8:50] The benefits of cash flow: Nathan explains how web-to-app helps early-stage apps avoid waiting for long payment cycles by leveraging web purchases.

    [10:50] Comparing conversion rates: Nathan shares that web often achieves higher conversion rates than app stores, particularly for higher-ticket subscription products.

    [14:28] The role of attribution: Nathan discusses the advantage of better attribution tools on the web compared to app-only campaigns.

    [20:23] Controlling user journeys: Nathan highlights how web-to-app allows brands to tailor onboarding experiences based on ad campaigns and user behavior.

    [30:01] Reaching new audiences: Nathan explains how web-to-app campaigns can attract low-intent users and nurture them through lead magnets and webinars.

    [37:07] Expanding to older audiences: Nathan discusses how web funnels allow brands to engage with desktop users and older demographics who may avoid app-only experiences.

    [52:46] Personalization for success: Nathan emphasizes the importance of tailoring user experiences on web-to-app journeys to reflect user needs and context effectively.


    Using Subscription App Benchmarks to Make Better Growth Decisions — Phil Carter, Elemental Growth Dec 23, 2024
    Show notes

    On the podcast we talk with Phil about how to effectively use benchmarks to aid decision making, the limitations of benchmarks, and why even the best companies aren’t top quartile in every single metric.

    Top Takeaways:

    📏 Benchmarks are a starting point, not a roadmap
    Treat benchmarks as directional indicators to uncover growth opportunities and prioritize actions, but don’t chase them blindly. They work best as tools for identifying areas to explore rather than metrics to perfect.


    🏆 Focus on strengths over chasing perfection
    It’s unrealistic to aim for excellence in every area. The most successful companies lean into their strengths, improve key weaknesses, and focus resources where they will make the biggest impact.

    ⚔️ Beware of misleading benchmarks
    Not all benchmarks are helpful. Poorly sourced, overly generic, or irrelevant data can lead to wasted effort or misguided decisions. Use benchmarks that are specific to your category, geography, or growth stage.


    🔍 Metrics only matter with context
    Numbers on their own don’t tell the full story. A high churn rate might be fine if you acquire users cost-effectively and retain high-value customers. Metrics need to be interpreted with a deep understanding of your product and target audience.

    💡 Data is powerful, but intuition seals the deal
    Data highlights where to focus, but the most effective decisions come from pairing metrics with experience, intuition, and a clear understanding of your customers. This balance of analysis and instinct drives smarter, more impactful strategies.


    About Phil Carter

    👨‍💻 Growth Advisor at Elemental Growth, a consultancy dedicated to scaling consumer subscription companies through actionable benchmarks and strategic insights


    👥 Phil Carter is committed on empowering consumer subscription companies to achieve sustainable growth by leveraging benchmarks, refining growth strategies, and identifying key opportunities for value creation, delivery, and capture.


    💡 “Where people get in trouble with benchmarks is they try to make them the end-all. be-all right. They try to do more with them than they really should be.”


    👋
    LinkedIn

    Resources:

    • Elemental Growth Website


    Follow us on X:

    • David Barnard - @drbarnard
    • Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
    • RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
    • SubClub - @SubClubHQ


    Episode Highlights:

    [1:37] The Subscription Value Loop: Phil introduces his framework for driving sustainable growth through value creation, delivery, and capture, and how it applies to subscription businesses.

    [5:52] Benchmarks as tools: Phil explains how benchmarks are a directional tool to guide decision-making and identify growth opportunities rather than an end-all, be-all.

    [13:07] Judging good ideas: The team discusses how great execution relies on judgment and filtering good ideas to focus on what moves the business forward.

    [20:53] Using the Subscription Value Loop: Phil shares how the framework acts as a diagnostic tool for spotting bottlenecks in client businesses and setting growth priorities.

    [24:47] The impact of pricing and free value: Phil describes a fitness app’s challenge with over-delivering value for free, resulting in low subscription conversion rates and pricing adjustments.

    [30:26] The power of subscription retention insights: Phil explains how understanding differences in retention between annual and monthly subscribers can shape pricing and product strategy.

    [36:32] Interpreting benchmarks through context: The hosts discuss how benchmarks differ based on the business model, user acquisition strategy, and market dynamics.

    [42:46] Paid vs. organic growth strategies: Phil underscores the risks of being overly dependent on paid ads and the value of diversifying acquisition through organic channels.

    [47:18] Value capture and monetization: Phil explores strategies for optimizing conversion rates, pricing, and paywalls to increase revenue capture from free users.

    [55:45] What’s next for the Subscription Value Loop Calculator: Phil shares plans for enhancing the tool with better data, new filters, and expanded benchmarks in future versions.


    Why Most Apps Hit a Revenue Ceiling (and How to Plan for It) — Patrick Falzon, The App Shop Dec 11, 2024
    Show notes

    On the podcast: estimating the revenue potential of an app, crafting an exit strategy, and why LTV is such a terrible metric.

    Top Takeaways:
    🎯 Finding the right market fit – Not all apps have billion-dollar potential, and chasing massive markets often means competing with big players. Instead, focus on markets where your app has room to stand out. By positioning yourself in a "Goldilocks zone"—big enough to scale but niche enough to avoid overcrowding—you’ll lay the groundwork for sustainable growth.

    📈 Portfolios over all-in strategies – Instead of putting all your effort into scaling one app, building a portfolio of smaller, successful apps can diversify risk and drive steady revenue. Portfolios give you the flexibility to test new ideas and spread your earnings across multiple use cases, avoiding the pitfalls of over-concentrating on one product.

    🔍 When to expand features or create a new app – Apps with focused, singular value propositions tend to attract and retain users better than those overloaded with features. Before adding more functionality, ask: Does this align with the app’s core mission? If not, consider launching a complementary app to avoid cluttering your existing product.

    🧪 Price testing without regrets – Effective price testing requires patience and precision. Run small tests, and use early retention patterns—such as trial-to-paid or monthly renewal rates—to model the impact on long-term subscribers. Always prepare for possible retention dips by planning worst-case scenarios to protect your bottom line.

    ✍🏻 Set up for a strategic exit – If acquisition is your goal, build your app to be buyer-ready. Private equity and strategic acquirers look for apps with clean operations, predictable revenue, and scalable systems. Crafting a clear differentiation and avoiding operational mess increases your chances of attracting high-value offers and makes the process smoother.

    About Patrick Falzon
    👨‍💼 Co-founder of The App Shop, Patrick helps app developers build sustainable portfolios, optimize monetization, and prepare for strategic exits.

    📈 With extensive experience in app monetization and growth strategies, Patrick is focused on creating streamlined user experiences while identifying opportunities for sustainable scaling and market differentiation.

    💡 “A big market is great only if you can take a substantial or specific share of that market. If it’s so competitive that you can’t garner any market share, it’s not actually valuable to you."

    👋 Patrick on LinkedIn

    Resources
    The App Shop website

    Follow Us:
    • David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnard
    • Jacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeiting
    • RevenueCat: https://twitter.com/RevenueCat
    • Sub Club: https://twitter.com/SubClubHQ

    Episode Highlights
    [1:41] The story begins: Patrick’s career evolution — from investing in to operating at Mosaic Group.
    [7:59] A stand-out app: Why RoboKiller, an app for blocking spam calls and texts, stood out in Mosaic’s portfolio.
    [9:07] Evaluating market size: Mosaic’s framework for assessing an app’s revenue potential balances market depth with competition and user demand.
    [14:20] Tough markets to crack: Mosaic avoided saturated app categories (like VPNs and personal finance), due to high acquisition costs and competitive pressure.
    [19:36] Depth vs. breadth: How Mosaic decided whether to enhance existing apps or create new ones.
    [25:52] Portfolio strategies: Building a diverse portfolio of smaller apps, instead of scaling a single app, can reduce risk and increase sustainable revenue.
    [32:14] LTV pitfalls: Patrick stresses the importance of capping LTV projections and focusing on shorter payback periods to make realistic growth decisions.
    [39:20] Exit strategy: Aligning operational processes, profitability, and a clean setup improves the chances of a successful app exit.
    [49:12] Retain to sustain: Why user retention metrics are key to building durable, long-term revenue.
    [1:01:05] Good press: How Mosaic leveraged proprietary data to secure media coverage, boosting RoboKiller’s organic growth and user trust.


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