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Latest Episodes:

App Optimization Through Experimentation — Hannah Parvaz, Aperture Oct 18, 2023

Show notes

On the podcast: How to profitably scale performance marketing, hard vs soft activation, and why you should keep an extra close eye on your marketing spend in November.

Top Takeaways

⬇️ To effectively scale your performance marketing, grasp your app's funnel from the top down. Start by honing in on app installs, enabling both you and the algorithms to learn. Progress down the funnel — optimizing for different app events as you go — but be prepared for corresponding budget hikes. Throughout this journey, continually test and iterate.

⏲️ Test your ATT prompt timing, starting with first app launch. While the ideal placement for an ATT prompt may vary per app, consider starting your tests with the prompt at first app launch. Surprisingly, this timing has shown minimal impact on sign-ups, trials, and conversions in some cases. Use this as a baseline for your own tests to find the most effective timing for your app.

🎨 Feed your always-on campaigns with rigorously tested ad creatives. Start with a control and multiple variants differing in one element. After identifying the best message, test it across various design formats. This iterative process builds a portfolio of effective creatives for your always-on campaigns, where you can, ideally, leave them untouched as you continue the testing process.

⏯️ For a clear view of product-market fit, track hard activations. These are meaningful actions — such as listening to multiple stories — that reveal user commitment. Don’t make the mistake of thinking a trial-start makes a user engaged. Use these insights to refine the user journey. Make it as easy as possible for users to reach the desired level of engagement.

🍂 Master the seasonal ad cycle: November is a tough month for ad spend, so pivot to awareness campaigns to navigate the rising costs. Come December, particularly after the 15th, you’ll find a rebound in favor of digital products as e-commerce spending drops. This period, often referred to as “Q5,” is also an excellent time to leverage gifting strategies and New Year messaging.

About Hannah Parvaz

👨‍💻 Founder of Aperture, a full-service growth partner making good companies better by helping them to change the world in a positive way.

💪 Hannah has helped hundreds of apps grow, and was previously recognized as a 5-star mentor at GrowthMentor, taking home both App Marketer of the Year and Consultant of the Year awards. She previously worked with learning app Uptime, narrated journalism app Curio, drink app DUSK, and music app DICE.

💡 “Every app is different: Everyone needs different levels of success, but also everyone has a slightly different strategy.”

👋 LinkedIn | X, formerly known as Twitter

Links & Resources

‣ Check out Aperture

‣ Hannah’s website

‣ Interview with Hannah on Business of Apps

‣ “Tips for Creating the Right Mindset for Business Growth” interview with Hannah Paravaz

‣ “How to talk to your customers in order to make winning ads with Hannah Parvaz”

Episode Highlights

[2:01] Personal growth marketing: Former IBM CEO Ginni Rometty said, “Growth and comfort do not coexist.” Hannah feels this is true of her professional trajectory — an encouraging reminder for everyone in the app space.

[5:02] Scaling performance marketing: The first question you need to ask is, How are you measuring what you’re scaling?

[8:25] The measure of success: Hannah recommends A/B testing and analytics to build out funnels.

[11:05] Post-ATT ad performance: Experimenting with creatives relies on specific goals and tests based on one control and multiple variants. Lots of experimentation and analysis are the keys.

[16:02] Conversations with customers: Android’s Google Play store isn’t quite as stringent as Apple’s App Store, but customers need to know how many trials and installs they’re aiming for in order to maximize the growth they need.

[18:17] Subscription focus: Hannah takes a blended perspective to subscription apps, looking at funnel steps and where the biggest opportunities are, then moving into product.

[20:52] Action hierarchy: Developers need to figure out how many first meaningful actions and core actions must take place for users to truly activate.

[25:31] Finger in the air: Tracking ROI in the early stages ****is a guessing game, but once reality matches expectations, the activation average always becomes clear.

[31:26] The blended perspective: Optimizing performance starts with looking at each channel in isolation and closely monitoring performance.

[34:31] All the leaves are brown: Halloween brings a curse that lasts throughout November — a tough season for marketers and advertisers. Costs skyrocket, then drop on December 1 for “Q5,” which lasts until the beginning of January.

VC Funding vs. Bootstrapping for Subscription Apps — Martín Siniawski, Podcast App Oct 04, 2023

Show notes

On the podcast: Spinning off a new product from secondary product market fit, the journey of getting into YC, and the give and take of raising venture capital.

Top Takeaways

🥾 Ground expectations for launching a bootstrapped business — prepare for years of challenges and minimal initial revenue while adapting, learning, and growing over the long term.

💰 Bootstrapping versus raising capital depends on you: Venture capital accelerates growth but increases accountability and responsibility, and you need to decide how you want to grow and whether you want to take that on.

📚 The B2B success playbook is about customer retention and iterative improvement, while B2C is high-risk, high-reward. Early success is harder, so tailor your approach and expectations based on the landscape.

➗ Diversification is a double-edged sword, and being a multi-product app business is still a challenge, making focus crucial. Leverage existing user data and resources to identify truly synergistic opportunities, while staying true to your core mission and expertise.

📱 Diversified app growth means balancing cross-promotion and unique growth strategies — but not all distribution tactics translate seamlessly between apps.

About Martín Siniawski

👨‍💻 Co-founder and CEO at Podcast App, a fast-growing podcast player now backed by Y Combinator (W18).

💪 Having founded Streema with 10 million monthly users, Martín is now focused on scaling paid acquisition at Podcast App. The two apps have a combined 100 million downloads.

💡 “My first rule of multi-product companies is to try not to become a multi-product company.”

👋 LinkedIn | X, formerly known as Twitter

Links & Resources

‣ Check out Podcast App

‣ Connect with Martín on LinkedIn

‣ Connect with Martín on X, formerly known as Twitter

‣ Listen to Martín on From Zero to 1M

Episode Highlights

[2:37] Wandering in the desert: Bootstrapping Streema was the perfect way to learn and make mistakes.

[6:10] Masochistic motivations: Getting momentum going with Podcast App came from Martín and his co-founder observing a growing trend of people moving from radio to podcasts.

[10:03] Rise and fall: The first attempt to raise funding failed, thanks to a hard-nosed interview.

[15:36] Interview prep round #2: The second interview at YC went much better for Martín and his co-founder with the help of hindsight from their bootstrapping experience — and a lot of thought.

[17:32] How big do you want to grow?: Involving other people introduces higher stakes and more responsibility, but it can also seriously accelerate your business.

[20:52] B2B vs. B2C: Martín and Jacob differentiate between the two ways of doing business.

[26:09] YC interview tips: Martín dives deep into the second interview.

[29:07] Winning SEO optimization: Initially focused more on ads, the Podcast App doubled down on subscriptions and recently became a multi-product company with 130,000 subscribers.

[35:05] Distribution speedrun: Acquiring users has come naturally for Martín and his co-founder, and he considers distribution to be a major factor in a successfully executed vision.

[37:47] CAC LTV as product-market fit indicator: Martín is focused on making it work — the bottom line is whether or not they have a viable business.

Building the Berkshire Hathaway of Consumer Subscriptions — Eric Crowley, GP Bullhound Sep 20, 2023

Show notes

On the podcast: The B2B opportunity for B2C apps, the App Store alone being bigger than most Fortune 500 companies, and which current or future company will build the Berkshire Hathaway of consumer subscriptions.

Top Takeaways

📱 The App Store ecosystem is far from saturated. With a nearly doubled revenue from content being purchased since 2019 and hosting close to a billion subscriptions, the Apple App Store shows that there's still plenty of room for growth and opportunity. Despite debates about consumer fatigue, these numbers signify an ecosystem that is not only surviving but thriving.

👮 The regulatory spotlight could spark change in App Store fees. Amid increasing pressure from global and domestic regulators, the question looms: Will Apple and Google adjust their app store fees? If they do, it's not just a legal win, but also a potential cash flow boost for app developers. The decision could also be a tactical move for Apple to win back transactions currently lost to alternative payment systems.

🤝 The boundary between B2C and B2B is becoming increasingly fluid, offering a new avenue for growth. Brands like Peloton and Headspace, which thrived in the B2C space during the pandemic, are now venturing into B2B. This isn't a pivot but a strategic expansion, rooted in the belief that what consumers love, businesses will too. This trend underlines the potential of consumer-centric design in unlocking new business opportunities.

3️⃣ The Three C's: Content, Commerce, Community. Companies face three key challenges: acquisition, conversion, and retention. Content lures in users, commerce seals the deal, and a robust community keeps them coming back. It's not just a formula; it's the backbone of today's thriving subscription apps.

🤔There are untapped categories ripe for disruption.

While we often see a couple of dominant brands taking over established categories like dating or fitness, there are still numerous untapped markets in the consumer subscription space. Categories like Femtech and family management are just the tip of the iceberg, presenting just a few examples of the opportunities that await innovative apps.

About Eric Crowley

💼Partner at GP Bullhound, focusing primarily on mergers and acquisitions, capital raises, and advisory transactions for technology companies.

📈 With more than a decade in investment banking and edtech growth, Eric focuses on transactions for U.S. and Europe-based growth-stage CSS, adtech, digital services, and fintech companies.

💡 “Who's the Apple of female health? Who’s the brand you go to that is by far the best, [where] you don't question it, you buy it? There isn't one. There should be one, and — for something that happens millions of times a year — why isn't there an Apple of female health?”

👋 LinkedIn and X, formerly known as Twitter

Links & Resources

‣ Check out the CSS 2023 report

‣ GP Bullhound

‣ The evolution of consumer subscription apps

‣ Future subscription trends

‣ What venture investors look for when buying an app

Episode Highlights

[2:05] Doubling iPhone numbers: Apple’s consistently high growth sees 90 billion in profits this year.

[6:23] Apps are the internet: More people want to use apps over internet sites thanks to superior UX and UI, signaling more investment into apps.

[10:27] App economics: Consumer trends clearly indicate that apps have a lot more room to grow.

[15:01] Regulator attention: The growth of in-app purchases is pressuring Apple and Google to open up payments.

[21:48] Berkshire App-away: From textiles to hundreds of over $300 billion in revenue in 2022, the trajectory of Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway portends what may soon happen in the app world.

[26:39] Making M&A waves: Eric talks through some recent significant CSS buyouts.

[29:12] B2B2C: B2B and B2C are blending, with movements between the two showing what Eric calls “growth extension,” rather than pivoting. But will they cannibalize each other?

[34:46] Three Cs: Content, commerce, and community are leading to more UGC.

[41:11] Becoming the Apple of X: So-called “category killers” show where the greatest potential for success in the app space lies.

[49:44] It could be you: Nearly 80% of companies featured in the annual CSS report raised or sold for a great exit.

How To Raise Prices (the Right Way) — Reid DeRamus, Substack Sep 06, 2023

Show notes

On the podcast: whether or not to increase your price, how to execute if you do, and why price increases often impact growth more than retention.

Top Takeaways

💳 Should you raise your app’s prices at all? It’s one of the most impactful ways of increasing lifetime value and revenue so the answer is yes: you should definitely consider raising prices. But it’s a balancing act. How do you not sacrifice long-term growth for short-term gain?

🌟 Avoid customer backlash by reaffirming the value proposition. Asking people to pay more for the thing they’re already getting is a tough sell, so reaffirm your value proposition by simultaneously launching new or teasing upcoming features ****to avoid customer backlash.

💰 Look at your retention metrics to determine whether or not to raise prices. Above-average retention metrics might indicate that you’re leaving money on the table and should consider a price increase — but if they’re not healthy, focus on product and retention first.

📈 Price increases tend to affect acquisition more than retention. Strong price increase execution means less churn from existing subscribers, with a little more pressure on new user acquisition.

🏆 Add tiers to give users options and strategically raise prices. Bundle higher tiers with extra features or introduce lower tiers for your core user base.

About Reid DeRamus

👨‍💻 Growth PM at Substack, a newsletter publication platform that provides writers and creators with infrastructure, payment, analytics and design to publish their work and send to email subscribers.

💪 Reid helped launch and grow Hulu, Crunchyroll, and HBO Max, taking his learnings and starting a company called Yem that helped individuals and small teams build their own media empires. Yem was then acquired by Substack, where Reid is now a Growth PM.

💡 “I need to figure out the value that my existing subscribers are getting [and] make sure I'm reinforcing that. But I also need to be mindful of how it'll slowly expand from my core audience today, too, if I want to continue driving subscribers.”

👋 LinkedIn | X, formerly known as Twitter

Links & Resources

‣ Growth Croissant

‣ How To Increase Your Price

‣ How To Improve Retention

‣ Boosting Retention with Better Onboarding

‣ Improving Retention with Audience Surveys

‣ Connect with Reid at LinkedIn

‣ Reid on X, formerly known as Twitter

‣ Substack on X, formerly known as Twitter

Episode Highlights

[1:13] Price increase: Raising prices is a great way to boost customer lifetime value and revenue but executing it well is a balancing act — with tradeoffs.

[5:40] Consumer sentiment: Asking customers to pay more for the same product is a tough sell. Take a cue from the standard set by Netflix and Spotify by teasing changes and with marginal — not double — increases.

[9:26] Subscription 101: Substack is a great analogy for consumer subscription apps. Health metrics can be “too good,” with writers significantly underpricing their work and not aggressively marketing.

[17:22] Surveys: Surveys don’t only help establish core price, but also what the most passionate fans might pay relative to core subscribers.

[19:18] Be sure to tier: Streaming platforms and a few pioneers in the subscription app space are leading the way in what is likely to become the default business model within the next five years. “Not all subscriptions are created equal,” Reid highlights.

[22:42] Hitting the ceiling: At what point are you bumping up against your total serviceable market?

[24:46] On reaching 12 million: Having a deep relationship with your audience can pay off much more than having the best video player, payment engine, website or app. It’s about persistently asking how you can deliver more value.

[27:51] Back to surveys: Figuring out where core users are finding value comes from surveys via Google Forms, or face-to-face on Zoom calls.

[31:47] Balancing act: There’s no universal right answer to drive business growth. Early on, find initial traction with a relentless focus on product-market fit.

App Store Ethics, Dark Patterns, and Rule-Breakers — Steve P. Young, App Masters Aug 23, 2023

Show notes

On the podcast: “Black hat” app optimization, the benefits and drawbacks of hard paywalls, and why, despite Apple and Google’s best efforts, so many apps still use dark patterns and even blatantly break the rules.

Top Takeaways

🎩 Lots of (even the top) apps continue to deliberately break app store rules — even if you don’t break them too, you need to know what black hat strategies you’re up against. (3:46, 13:25)

🔍 Running “keyword install campaigns” mobilizes a large number of people to search for a particular keyword and download the app, tricking the app store algorithms by increasing app relevancy — and rankings — against that keyword. (7:21)

🔐 Don’t be afraid to lock down more content, use a hard paywall, or get more “aggressive” with paywall visibility. If people can use an app for free, they will. (18:59-37:09)

📊 Opinions don’t matter — data does. There are contrasting approaches to onboarding and monetization, so test what’s right for your app and look at the data. (40:01)

✅ Fully optimize your onboarding and your paywall through tinkering, then stabilize to drive revenue via the top of the funnel. (45:46)

About Steve P. Young

👨‍💻 Founder and CEO of App Masters, an app marketing agency that helps grow apps faster, better, and cheaper.

💪 Steve has spent over a decade growth hacking millions of app downloads, and knows the black hat strategies many top apps use to game the system.

💡 “My opinion does not matter. Everything is based on data.”
🎅 Steve also runs Indie App Santa, an effortless way to promote your app and boost downloads quickly.

👋 LinkedIn | X

Links & Resources

‣ Check out App Masters

‣ App Masters on YouTube

‣ Connect with Steve at LinkedIn

‣ Steve on X

‣ App Masters on Facebook

‣ Steve on Instagram

Episode Highlights

[1:40] Knife to a gunfight: App Store ethics aren’t cleancut. How can you play by the rules when so many apps are using dark patterns to get ahead?

[5:03] Do what you gotta do: Black hat strategies like review-buying are just too tempting not to use in the journey from zero to one.

[8:31] Relevant hacking: Keyword install or boost — similar to ASO — campaigns are still possible to get higher in keyword rankings — as long as you have the right keywords.

[13:25] Legal disclaimer: Even if you don’t like cheating, knowing what competitors are doing is crucial to planning your own strategies.

[14:43] Very edgy: Steve dives into his top “edgy things” for increasing visibility and revenue.

[18:59] No hard paywall: When a growth hacking tactic yields thousands of organic downloads, why put in the X? Data talks, until Apple comes around.

[26:16] AI wall: Given the costs of running AI models, you’re giving away value if you don’t have a hard paywall.

[29:48] Scammy territory: There’s a fine line between bannable black hat strategies and gaming the system.

[34:52] Lock it up: Steve suggests locking as much as you can behind a paywall: Beware giving away value for free, and always look at the data.

[40:01] Your opinion does not matter: Keywords tell us which apps to build.

From Consultancy to $10M in ARR — Vince Mayfield, TalkingParents Aug 09, 2023

Show notes

On the podcast: The right way to raise prices, the painful lessons from picking the wrong tools, and why you should respond to every single app review.

Top Takeaways

✍️ Start surveying as soon as you start developing, and don’t stop. Identify your MVP by understanding customers early on, and develop new features with key customer insights when you’re growing.

📈 Bundle extra value if you must raise prices to soften the blow of a tough sell and demonstrate attentiveness to customer needs.

🧰 Cheaper, easy-to-integrate tools might not scale on infrastructure and unit economics, which could lead to a painful re-engineering process down the line.

🏗️ Plan for scalability from the start by adhering to solid software engineering principles and ensuring your tooling integrations are easily switchable.

🤑 Provide premium support for a premium product price. Respond to every store review — each interaction leaves a lasting impression on customers and drives loyalty.

About Vince Mayfield

👨‍💻 Co-founder and CEO of TalkingParents, an app that helps divorced or separated parents manage communication and share responsibilities.

💪 Vince and his partner jumped from professional services to building a scalable app with $10 million in ARR.

💡 “People like to compartmentalize elements of their life and they don't want to have a million apps.”

👋 LinkedIn

Links & Resources

‣ Connect with Vince on LinkedIn

‣ Check out TalkingParents

‣ TalkingParents on Instagram

‣ TalkingParents on Facebook

‣ TalkingParents on Pinterest

‣ TalkingParents on X (formerly Twitter)

‣ Get TalkingParents from the App Store

‣ Get TalkingParents from Google Play

Episode Highlights

[1:35] Origin story: Making money while we sleep is the ultimate goal — Vince talks about how he moved from agency to product company to $10 million in ARR.

[4:44] From hired gun to product growth: Lack of app monetization and not understanding customers early on may make pivoting to a product focus challenging.

[7:59] Risk management for risk mitigators: How do you make money from the court system? Easy: Switch focus to the real customers.

[10:32] Freemium tinkering: Vince dives into the app’s early strategy for monetization and subscription — burning through close to $1 million in the process.

[12:59] Chartered surveying: When it seems like an app is charging too little, asking customers what features they want and need is the ticket to nailing down value.

[15:59] Downhill slalom vs. uphill climb: Raising already low prices can be delicate, but bundling additional value with a rollout often softens the blow. Look for opportunities to layer on deeper value.

[28:33] Nudges and needs: From surveying to app instrumentation, Vince and his partner had to understand the customer journey before making the right moves.

[32:08] The ultimate tool belt: Not paying attention to how apps can scale from the very beginning is an easy mistake for app developers to make — especially when using tools.

[38:28] Best-in-class assessment: Starting with best-in-class tools isn’t always doable, but adopting good software engineering techniques as you go is a satisfactory quick fix.

[41:28] Lightning round: Vince talks about why support matters and how that translates into running a business and customers’ responses.

What it Takes to Succeed with Paid User Acquisition — Thomas Petit, App Growth Consultant Jul 26, 2023

Show notes

On the podcast: Setting sensible goals for paid marketing, how to measure and learn from the results, and why a single ad creative can completely change the trajectory of a company.

Top Takeaways

🥅 Set clear and realistic goals before investing in paid UA — and make sure you can afford to experiment. It can be tough to get to ROAS positive, and even tougher to get that return quickly.

💰 Monthly ad budgets should ideally start at $10-20k for big, algorithmic platforms — increasing data volume for optimization — while lower budgets call for exploring non-algorithmic platforms and influencer marketing.

🤔 Successful ads are built on in-depth, comprehensive user understanding, including their triggers and responses to different messages — before investing in advertising.

🧪 Test and iterate radically and substantially in the the quest for the ideal creative: Promising concepts need further refinement and tweaking, especially given the unpredictable nature of what might work.

🤝 Focus on conversion rates, not just high user engagement

for ad campaigns — low conversion can negatively affect overall performance, and ad platforms like Facebook and Google aim for a balance between engagement and revenue.

About Thomas Petit

👨‍💻 Independent subscription app growth consultant.

💪 Thomas has worked with hundreds of clients and helped manage tens of millions of dollars in ad spend.

💡 “Know your expectations and know what you're after… a lot of people don't ask this question in a deep enough way.”

👋 LinkedIn | Twitter

Links & Resources

‣ David’s talk at Mau Las Vegas

‣ Revisiting the Fundamentals of App Marketing Post IDFA — Thomas Petit

‣ Check out MADV - Mobile. Ad.ventures on Substack

‣ Connect with Thomas on LinkedIn

‣ Connect with Thomas on Twitter

‣ Get involved in the Sub Club community

Episode Highlights

[2:50] Minimum viability: What does it take to start making paid UA work? The answer depends on what you want to achieve with it.

[9:44] The early bird catches the worm: If you know what you want from the get-go, Thomas explains why starting paid UA early might not be a bad strategy. But only gamble what you can afford to lose.

[14:00] A word on Facebook: If running on a tight budget, Thomas “strongly recommends against” buying ads on Facebook because of targeting and demographic challenges.

[18:44] Cash moves everything around: The guardrails around scaling on algorithmic platforms necessitate a five-digit monthly budget minimum. Below $10-20k a month you’re operating in a very tough spot.

[24:57] Good Ol’ Google: Operating on low budgets, choosing keywords for Google searches may still work. Using a simple landing page builder is an avenue to explore — but only very early on when you need to assess SEO and imagery. The three checks are: goals, cash, and ARPI.

[31:31] Scaling paid UI: Thomas goes deep into how to scale paid UI, and how MMPs and SDKs play into that.

[39:56] The measure of success: It’s critical to assess evolving trends based on changing spend. But attribution isn’t (and never was) an exact science. Look at whatever tools you have at your disposal for an estimate.

[45:39] His toolkit: Thomas talks about the tools he uses for modeling incrementality across product and subscription lifecycle events.

[53:44] Let’s get creative: With growing automation, getting ads right is crucial. Messaging, USP, and understanding your audience all factor into effective ads. Don’t rely on intuition.

[1:05:01] USP: There’s no secret formula for a single, winning USP, but you need to test it to understand what users react to.

[1:09:41] Spanning the gap: Some successful ads are indirect and don’t transition. The relation between downloads and transitioning is a tough nut to crack, but teasing and explicitly explaining it’s an app are good ways to try at least a slight transition.

[1:13:26] Clickbait install rate: Beware of the delicate interplay between clicks, reduced install rate, ad spend, and ROI.

Achieving Mission & Profit with Freemium — Erin Webster-Shaller and Paul Apollo, Lose It! Jul 12, 2023

Show notes

On this episode: balancing mission and monetization, the challenges inherent to referral programs, and why Lose It! had to abandon a big push into paid user acquisition.

Top Takeaways

🆓 Excellent free products need a large user base to upsell — messaging millions of users about special offers can deliver fantastic returns. (10:32)

🚂 Extend onboarding for increased trial engagement by asking more personalized questions to boost trial start rates and tailor the user experience. (14:43)

👏 Celebrate user success to drive word-of-mouth marketing and organic growth, while strengthening the bond between users and your brand. (25:47)

🥇 Encourage setup of premium features during trials while carefully A/B testing each feature for user resonance. (31:49)

🏃 Identify key actions to boost user conversion with the power of data analysis: Target users with discounts or special offers to entice them to upgrade to a premium subscription. (36:29)

About Erin Webster-Shaller

👨‍💻 VP of Marketing at Lose It!, one of the first health and wellness apps on the App Store.

💪 Erin has been responsible for determining whether new features should be premium or free, as well as running A/B testing for messaging.

💡 “There’s a lot of gimmicks in the weight loss industry: We try to be authentic and real with what this product can help you do — but also not oversell it [and] promise something that isn’t realistic.”

👋 LinkedIn | Twitter

About Paul Apollo

👨‍💻 Senior VP of Operations at Lose It!.

💪 Paul has been with the company for nine years and has spent nearly that entire time in growth marketing.

💡 “We want to make sure that there is an excellent free product available for anybody who wants access to it.”

👋 LinkedIn

Links & Resources

‣ Check out Lose It!

‣ Work with Lose It!

‣ Connect with Erin on LinkedIn

‣ Connect with Erin on Twitter

‣ Connect with Paul on LinkedIn

Episode Highlights

[1:45] Mission-driven: Lose It! founder JJ Allaire was tracking calories on a spreadsheet when the App Store was born. Increasing satisfaction for happy users aligned perfectly with the app’s growth.

[6:18] No monetization: The app went from being totally free to freemium. The team didn’t even dabble with ads until very late in the game.

[7:28] Buying out Series A investors: Lose It! was so profitable it became fully founder- and employee-owned when it was acquired in 2022 by Ziff Davis.

[9:22] The feature adoption journey: The team doesn’t test locking features, but they do A/B test messaging and positioning. Apps and Devices is a big crowd-pleaser, Paul explains.

[14:02] Loss aversion onboarding: When Lose It! noticed inexplicably longer onboarding, they tested with more questions, which snowballed into significant success. Adding premium features to onboarding didn’t have the same effect.

[20:58] 135 million-pound loss: 50 million users came primarily from consistent word-of-mouth growth and organic acquisition. Experimenting with paid acquisition in 2019 didn’t work out.

[25:47] Pushing word of mouth: Erin explains how the company gets people to “spread the good word” to lose more, although experimentation showed that referrals aren’t a silver bullet.

[31:49] Lifecycle messaging: Paul jumps into the strategy of exposing freemium users to premium and keeping premium users engaged.

[38:07] In-app messaging: Lose It! experimented with in-app messaging versus email blasts.

Cultivating Organic Growth with Viral Loops — Guillem Ros Salvador, Hevy Jun 28, 2023

Show notes

On this episode: We talk with Guillem about how Hevy got traction early on, growing without paid marketing, and why you might not want to raise your price, even if customers would pay more.

Top Takeaways

🏛️ When shaping your MVP, establish a clear framework to guide your product development. Particularly for small teams or those bootstrapping, maintaining a lean approach is crucial. Identify your product's three core pillars, which will inform your decisions on which features to retain or eliminate.

🪞 Do you believe if you build it, they will come? That might be the case occasionally, but launching a new app can prove challenging. A practical initial strategy, covering roughly 80% of your bases, is to mirror successful competitors: target the same keywords, implement similar tactics. This isn't a long-term strategy, but it will position you ahead of those who do nothing and attract an initial user base.

🤝 When developing a social app, be cautious about how pricing changes might undermine user trust. If your app is predicated on social sharing, frequent or radical pricing experiments could incite negative discussions among your users. However, if you consistently offer good value, your users are likely to share this positive sentiment.

🪴 Cultivating organic growth early on primes your app for sustainable expansion, with paid acquisition serving as an effective boost. Growing primarily through organic strategies – such as social viral loops or App Store Optimization (ASO) – ensures your app's growth is not overly dependent on costly advertising, which can influence your pricing model.

🤹One of the perks of building a small team? It facilitates a concentrated focus on what's best for the product. While the allure of the indie route – keeping things super lean with minimal costs – can be tempting, it can hamper your growth scale. A team not only brings in diverse skills but also provides a buffer between product ideation and implementation.

About Guillem Ros Salvador

👨‍💻 CEO and co-founder of Hevy, a leading gym workout tracker and planner app for iOS and Android.

💪 Guillem and his co-founder took the basic idea of Strava to create a community-focused weightlifting app. Hevy has been downloaded more than two million times so far.

💡 “We try to take in as much feedback as possible. We ask for feedback all the time inside the app, and we're always in contact with users by email. That seems to be a great way to just gather feedback.”

👋 LinkedIn | Twitter

Links & Resources

‣ Check out Hevy

‣ Work with Hevy

‣ How Hevy was built

‣ Read about Guillem’s journey

‣ Connect with Guillem on LinkedIn

‣ Connect with Guillem on Twitter

Episode Highlights

[2:06] Building dreams: After five years of app building, Guillem learned from failures to move from mobile gaming into fitness (as both a hobby and a profession).

[5:28] Pain point analysis: Moving from triathlons to the gym, Guillem realized the missing ingredient was community.

[7:45] Rapid 1.0 ship: Ruthless cutting and asking the key question of what the real MVP is was the key to shipping quickly. Tracking, analytics and social were the foundations of their MVP.

[13:25] Burgeoning communities: Sometimes, single-digit downloads are the spark you need to get going — and that can give you insight, understanding and word-of-mouth growth. Then, one day, the communities pop up.

[19:00] Ramen profitable: Within a year and a half, Guillem was working on Hevy full-time. Germany’s unemployment benefits went some way in helping him get there.

[23:09] Two million downloads: Compounding word of mouth and a slew of New Year's resolutions vaulted Hevy to the next level — sustained with a good product.

[26:22] Pricing thoughts: Guillem and his partner quickly realized that because Hevy was higher-quality and more social than competitors, they could keep the price low and still turn a profit.

[29:53] Near-zero acquisition costs: Even the behemoths didn’t pay to acquire users in the early days.

[34:44] Hiring management: Hevy’s team of 10 keeps operations lean while broadening their vision more than Guillem and his partner could alone.

How Headspace Optimized Revenue by Gating Content — Shreya Oswal and Keya Patel, Headspace Jun 14, 2023

Show notes

On this episode: The evolution of Headspace’s freemium model, balancing mission and monetization, and why referral programs sometimes work better without incentives.

Top Takeaways

💰 Don’t be afraid to experiment with gating 100% of your content. Not only can this result in a significant lift in paid users, in cases where an app requires some effort from the user (such as with meditation), getting them committed with a free trial early on can boost engagement levels versus free users.

⚠️ Promoting your strongest performing plan at the expense of your others doesn’t always have a positive effect. Let’s say your annual plan might display the best performance in terms of revenue or retention, giving it too much prominence can cause lower intent users to sign-up for it, leading to fewer trial-to-paid conversions. In these cases, giving users choice could produce the best results.

👪 Users on family plans can show the strongest retention rates. When users subscribe to your app as part of a family or group, there’s a degree of accountability involved: if one member is using it, then the others are less likely to want to cancel as a result.

🗣️ When designing onboarding experiences, think about the product and lifecycle messaging together. Having the option of communicating with users both in and out of the app means you can get more creative with your onboarding — for instance, offering a “prize” for completing the first month, and using email to remind users when they’re lagging behind.

💬 Some apps will benefit from referral schemes that are less transactional. Rather than receive some monetary reward, some apps’ users are more motivated by the intrinsic reward of being helpful. But you can experiment with more unique benefits for being a top referrer, such as exclusive content or in-person events****

About Shreya Oswal and Keya Patel

👨‍💻 Shreya is Senior Director of Product Management, Membership at Headspace, and Keya is the former Director of Product Management, Growth.

💡 Shreya: “Bringing that free trial online and letting users choose for themselves was a big win for the business and a big win for members in terms of picking the right product for them.”

💡 Keya: “Experimenting with the extreme of what happens if you condense onboarding as much as possible and ask for a conversion moment or an upsell [works] from a data perspective. So it wasn't necessarily a failure.”

👋 Shreya on LinkedIn | Twitter

👋 Keya on LinkedIn | Twitter

Links & Resources

‣ Check out Headspace

‣ Headspace for Work

‣ Headspace-Ginger merger

‣ How Freemium Can Outperform Free Trials – Shaun Steingold, Momentum Labs

‣ Connect with Shreya on LinkedIn

‣ Connect with Keya on LinkedIn

Episode Highlights

[1:53] 80/20 rule: Keya talks about Headspace’s evolving freemium strategy where 80% of their content was locked behind a paywall. They tested the effect of locking even more content — with a positive impact on conversion.

[6:26] Big shoes to fill: Shreya’s follow-up experimentation involved locking 100% of content, with a high double-digit lift. To attract long-term users to switch, they offered a 75% discount.

[8:22] Costco sample strategy: Headspace wants to continue to experiment by giving users a taste of what they can benefit from.

[10:58] Freemium do’s and don’ts: Building habits and engagement comes from commitment and early skin in the game.

[13:04] Price testing: Keya dives into the experiments and results of Headspace’s price testing efforts.

[16:18] Annual versus monthly: Where Keya left off with annual subscription efforts, Shreya picked it up from a net new, lower-intent monthly angle.

[20:55] Package experimentation: The ideal length of time for a free trial isn’t immediately clear when switching from free content with a paywall and no trial.

[24:24] Propensity model: Shreya breaks down what a propensity model is and how to build it.

[26:18] Student and family rollouts: Not everyone necessarily had the same access or ability to pay for Headspace — while revenue matters, so does company mission.

[30:47] Onboarding failures and wins: Additional questions in testing led to lower drop-off rates — from single-select to multiselect reasons. Both very short and very long onboarding failed.

[35:08] Product and lifecycle interactions: Keya explains how communication outside the app opened doors for incentivization within the app.

[37:44] Referral revamp: Headspace found intrinsic, less transactional referrals to be more effective in the long run.

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