Street Data Pod: Imagining the Next Generation of Education

Ep 32: Navigating the “Groan Zone” of Pedagogical Transformation with Marlo Bagsik and Nina Finci Feb 27, 2025

Get to know transformational teacher leaders Marlo Bagsik and Nina Finci in this beautiful conversation and new episode! Co-hosts Shane and Alcine explore with their guests what it means to “choose the margins” of our classrooms as they hear about Marlo and Nina’s development of a districtwide Humanizing instructional framework. Together, they unpack how to create the conditions for belonging as a core domain of Student Agency for students at the margins. And they conclude with a poignant moment of witnessing Marlo’s experience of collaborating with Shane, Sawsan, and Crystal to develop Pedagogies of Voice: Street Data and the Path to Student Agency, the sequel to Street Data which will be on the shelves the first week of August!

For Further Learning:

Pre-order your copy of Pedagogies of Voice: Street Data and the Path to Student Agency today HERE
Watch this powerful video of educators from across the country sharing their thoughts about about student and teacher agency.
Learn more about the Bridge Program, where Nina teaches
Learn more about the Youth Legacy Project by Carlos Hagerdon, where Nina first learned about the Heartifacts task
Visit your local library or bookstore to find some of Marlo Bagsik + Nina Finci’s favorite books that have help them teach and lead from the heart:
- Everything We Never Had- Randy Ribay
- On Earth We’re Briefly Gorgeous – Ocean Vuong
- The Bluest Eye – Toni Morrison
- All About Love – bell hooks
- Community at Work - Sam Kaner
- Antiracism and Universal Design for Learning – Andratesha Fritzgerald

[RE-RELEASE] Episode 24: “Get Off Your Pedestal!” and Other Brilliant Advice from High School Student Leaders Ari and Harshan Feb 20, 2025

Today’s episode is a re-release with high school students Ari and Harshan and it is life-giving! These fearless leaders, along with 50 of their peers, have been using Street Data to shape school transformation projects on issues ranging from disrupting bullying through Indigenous, restorative practices to centering students’ mental health in schooling to reimagining assessment practices. In this episode, Shane and Alcine get to hear about Ari and Harshan’s names, the identities that matter to them, and the changes they seek at their schools. The episode ends with an exploration of the kinds of classrooms and conversations young people need in this complex, volatile moment we are living through. Don’t miss this wonderful dialogue!

For Further Learning:

Pedagogies of Voice, Shane Safir's new book, is coming soon! To get 30% off of your pre order, click here!
Get your copy of Street Data by Corwin Press

EP 31: “Racial equity must be coupled with instructional equity” with Zaretta Hammond Jan 30, 2025

Join us for this opening episode of Season 5 as we dive into the instructional core with THE Zaretta Hammond, who needs no introduction! Get to know Zaretta as she enters her self-described “Maker Phase” of life. In this season, Alcine and Shane are exploring the question, What needs to be true—at various levels of the system—to awaken and center student voice and agency? Zaretta cracks open this conversation by challenging all of us to couple “equity work” with “instructional equity”, beginning with a deep focus on literacy to interrupt what she has deemed cognitive redlining. Listen as Zaretta unpacks a pedagogy of possibility in which educators leverage neuroscience to make learning “sticky” and help students get smarter and sharper about the core skills they need to thrive. Zaretta offers so many insights on where we need to pay attention as educators, starting with a reminder that curriculum is not a magic wand that will generate learning and belonging is a precondition for cognitive capacity-building, not the end goal. She grounds us in the truth that learning is messy, predicated on making and thinking strategically about mistakes, and that students need both care and push. And she gives us a powerful vision of classrooms rooted in the kinds of “studio habits” that artists have, in which students are cognitively apprenticed into the vital skills and habits of learning required for the global societies in which they live.

For Further Learning:

Visit Zaretta’s organization Ready 4 Rigor HERE
Get your copy of Culturally Responsive Teaching and The Brain HERE
Listen to Zaretta Hammond on the following podcasts:
- Whole Student Podcast: Who Helped You Thrive as a Student? (2022)
- 180 Podcast Part 1 and Part 2
- The Future of Learning with Tim Logan (in the UK) - April 3, 2024
- Minding the Gap with Tom Sherrington (UK) - Jan. 2024

[RE-RELEASE] Episode 27: “A Good Theory Always Starts with a Good Question" with the esteemed Dr. Gloria Ladson-Billings Jan 16, 2025

Today's episode is a re-release from Season 4! From West Philly to Stanford University to becoming a field-shifting scholar, Dr. GLB is here to drop the mic for Street Data Pod’s Season 4. We learn about Little Gloria and her largely positive educational experience growing up in Philadelphia before attending a Historically Black College or University (HBCU). We get the inside scoop on her groundbreaking research as a post-doc at Stanford, including what happened when she flipped the dominant, deficit-based research paradigms and asked, “What’s right with Black kids?” From there, GLB enlightens us around the core tenets of culturally relevant pedagogy, which starts with a set of beliefs about children and families (not practices!) and a willingness to interrogate knowledge. Finally, we talk about the transformative value of focusing on the “big ideas” of one’s discipline versus the millions of little facts that suck the life out of so much curriculum. To continue our exploration of pedagogies of student voice, GLB takes us to Matamoros, México where a science teacher with few resources in an “underperforming” region breathes life into his content by believing in the brilliance of his students and building an experiential learning simulation. Don’t miss this phenomenal episode!

For Further Learning:

Here is a recent article by Dr. Ladson-Billings: “I’m Here for the Hard Re-Set: Post Pandemic Pedagogy to Preserve Our Culture”
Here’s a trailer for Radical, the movie Dr. Ladson-Billings referenced as an example of culturally responsive pedagogy in classrooms.
At the time of the recording, Dr. Luis Moll just transitioned into being an ancestor. We want to honor his brilliant contributions to our field by sharing an article on his seminal theory of funds of knowledge.

EP 30: Dr. Sawsan Jaber and Season 4 Reflections Aug 15, 2024

In this final episode of Season 4, Alcine and Shane return to a conversation with Dr. Sawsan Jaber, contributing writer to Shane’s forthcoming book Pedagogies of Voice: Street Data and the Path to Student Agency. They explore the impact of the genocide in Gaza, and the backlash against Palestinian advocacy, on Sawsan as a leading Palestinian educator voice. And Sawsan shares what it’s meant to her to be a part of this next Corwin Press project. In the second half of the episode, Shane and Alcine walk down the Season 4 Memory Lane, surfacing moments that moved them and stayed with them. They close with a sneak preview of Season 5, which launches in January 2025, a few months before the debut of Pedagogies of Voice. Join us to close out this dynamic season!

For Further Learning:

Envision Learning Partners’ criteria for high quality performance assessments
Read Shane’s article in ASCD’s Educational Leadership magazine, “Cultivating A Pedagogy of Student Voice”

Ep 29: “Another World Is Possible… It’s Already Here”: Exploring Culturally Sustaining Pedagogies with Dr. Django Paris Jul 04, 2024

In this penultimate episode of Season 4, Shane and Alcine explore the contours of Culturally Sustaining Pedagogies with the illustrious Dr. Django Paris. Their conversation explores the ideas of shared communities and solidarities across difference, intersectionality, and chosen kinship. We learn how Django’s experiences of reading, writing, and art as a little person inform his scholarship and remind him “what it means to keep that voice and dedication to expression” as a scholar. We unpack the central tenets of Culturally Sustaining Pedagogy, including CPS as a pedagogical expression of both community care and the abolitionist ethos, “We keep us safe.” Finally, this intimate fireside chat uplifts the student-led movements for a Free Palestine that have emerged across the U.S. and beyond as spaces of abundance that resist a scarcity mindset. Don’t miss this groundbreaking, heartstring-tugging conversation with one of today’s educational dreamers and thought leaders.

For Further Learning:

To learn more about Dr. Paris and his scholarship, click here.
You can find his book Education in Movement Spaces: Standing Rock to Chicago Freedom Square at Routledge Press and the book series Culturally Sustaining Pedagogies Book Series at Teachers’ College Press.
Dr. Paris’s new conversations series can be found at An Educational Otherwise
To learn more about the Popular University for Gaza at UW, click here.

[RE-RELEASE] Episode 6: “We Need to Marginalize Standardized Testing” with Young Whan Choi Jul 02, 2024

We are back for another re-release from season 2 with Young Whan Choi! In this episode, we explore ways of being and leading in education that truly center students. Young Whan implores us to “marginalize” standardized testing, or at least push it to the periphery, as he offers a vision of authentic, community-based, performance assessments that demonstrate what students know and are able to do. He exposes the irony that, while many new leaders evoke the principle of being “student-centered”, students themselves are often painfully absent from professional learning agendas, except perhaps as an aggregated data point. And finally, Young Whan helps us rethink where knowledge lives and where power exists within the system.

For Further Learning:

Get a copy of Street Data on Amazon, Corwin Press, or from a BIPOC-owned local bookstore.
Get a copy of Young Whan’s book, Sparks Into Fire: Revitalizing Teacher Practice Through Collective Learning at Teachers’ College Press.
Read Shane’s recent Ed Week article on standardized testing.
Watch Awo Okaikor Aryee-Price, Wayne Au, Denisha Jones and Jesse Hagopian discuss the racist history of standardized testing and its impacts today in The Racist History of Standardized Testing

EP 28: “All the Data is Story”: Taking a Pause with Wayi Wah Educator and Author Jo Chrona Jun 13, 2024

In this beautiful conversation with BC-based education leader Jo Chrona, we step into Jo’s childhood as a voracious reader with a love of the land. We visit Jo on the bone-shaped, forested island of Haida Gwaii where she first learned the value of taking a pause to breathe in and out. From there, we visit the First People’s Principles of Learning, which Jo helped to author and describes as a “framework” for instructional decision-making. We engage in an important conversation about how to best use large-scale standardized data as a mechanism for moving toward equity, in which Jo offers guiding principles: it must not be high-stakes or negatively impact students’ wellbeing, and it must be a way to hold ourselves accountable for racialized disparities. We explore the interconnectedness between various parts of the education system, including teacher prep, curriculum, and student learning, accessing a window into the future from BC’s forward-moving approaches. Through this dynamic conversation, Jo helps us reframe the “achievement gap”, emphasizing that it is about the system, not the learner. Finally she challenges us to ensure we never homogenize groups of students, but rather get to know who our learners are through their stories. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss this enlightening glimpse of the future!

For Further Learning:

Visit https://luudisk.com/ to learn more about Jo Chrona’s work.
Explore the First Peoples Principles of Learning (FPPL)
Other podcasts featuring Jo Chrona:
- Brave New Teacher, Ep. 159
- Free Range Humans, Ep 57
Additional Professional Learning Resources for Learning In Indigenous Education:
- Continuing Our Learning Journey: A professional learning experience (videos and workshop facilitator's guide) for educators on how to include authentic Indigenous knowledge, perspectives, and content in BC’s curriculum.
- Pulling Together: A series of resource guides developed to support systemic change in post-secondary education.

[RE-RELEASE] Episode 18: CULT OF PEDAGOGY! “A Seat at the Table” with Jennifer Gonzalez and Amanda Liebel May 30, 2024

Get ready for another re-release from Season 3! In this delightful dialogue with the wizard behind Cult of Pedagogy, Jennifer Gonzalez, and middle school drama teacher Amanda Liebel, Shane and Alcine walk alongside two brilliant educators to think about service, street data, and pedagogy. You’ll learn the origin story of the magical blog and podcast called Cult of Pedagogy. We’ll think about what it means to have a “heart of service”, as Amanda characterizes the deep work of teaching as always a reflective practice. We’ll also discuss how Shane, Jamila, and Jennifer came together to create a 9-hour free video series that follows two teams of teachers as they move through the messiness and richness of the Street Data process! Finally, this episode offers one-inch windows into a pedagogy of student voice, including:

How to receive difficult street data from students with an open heart
How to take deeper risks in the classroom (for example, to “Indigenize our learning spaces”)
Why being a perfectionist works against you as a teacher
And what it means to “walk alongside students” and listen to what they want

Enjoy this priceless conversation!

For Further Learning:

Listen to the original Cult of Pedagogy podcast episode with Shane and Jamila, “Street Data: A Path Toward Equitable, Anti-racist Schools” (October 5, 2021)
Access 9 hours of free professional learning in Street Data Cult of Pedagogy video series
Listen to the follow-up Cult of Pedagogy podcast episode about this learning series with Shane, Jamila, and Amanda (January 29, 2023)
Check out the mentioned Cult of Pedagogy podcast and blog on The Big List of Class Discussion Strategies

Episode 27: “A Good Theory Always Starts with a Good Question" with the esteemed Dr. Gloria Ladson-Billings May 16, 2024

From West Philly to Stanford University to becoming a field-shifting scholar, Dr. GLB is here to drop the mic for Street Data Pod’s Season 4. We learn about Little Gloria and her largely positive educational experience growing up in Philadelphia before attending a Historically Black College or University (HBCU). We get the inside scoop on her groundbreaking research as a post-doc at Stanford, including what happened when she flipped the dominant, deficit-based research paradigms and asked, “What’s right with Black kids?” From there, GLB enlightens us around the core tenets of culturally relevant pedagogy, which starts with a set of beliefs about children and families (not practices!) and a willingness to interrogate knowledge. Finally, we talk about the transformative value of focusing on the “big ideas” of one’s discipline versus the millions of little facts that suck the life out of so much curriculum. To continue our exploration of pedagogies of student voice, GLB takes us to Matamoros, México where a science teacher with few resources in an “underperforming” region breathes life into his content by believing in the brilliance of his students and building an experiential learning simulation. Don’t miss this phenomenal episode!

For Further Learning:

Here is a recent article by Dr. Ladson-Billings: “I’m Here for the Hard Re-Set: Post Pandemic Pedagogy to Preserve Our Culture”
Here’s a trailer for Radical, the movie Dr. Ladson-Billings referenced as an example of culturally responsive pedagogy in classrooms.
At the time of the recording, Dr. Luis Moll just transitioned into being an ancestor. We want to honor his brilliant contributions to our field by sharing an article on his seminal theory of funds of knowledge.

[RE-RELEASE] Episode 14: “You are all elders in training” with Dr. Lisa Delpit and Dr. Jamila Dugan Apr 18, 2024

We are back with another re-release from Season 2! In this episode, you’ll listen at the feet of the incomparable Dr. Lisa Delpit, whose books Other People’s Children and Multiplication Is for White People deeply impacted Shane and Alcine, alongside her brilliant mentee and Street Data co-author Dr. Jamila Dugan. We get a one-inch window into Dr. Delpit’s early experiences in “white teacher education” and the Open Classroom model where Black teachers’ wisdom and skill was often undervalued. We witness a beautiful exchange between Dr. Delpit and Dr. Dugan about the intergenerational work they are involved in and what it means for all of us to step into being elders-in-training. If you’re as confused as we are about the Science of Reading “debates”, this episode will help you shift and lift the discourse about literacy, as Dr. Delpit brings complexity and nuance, helping us all remember that while phonics instruction is necessary, successful teachers of Black students do so much more: affirm their humanity, create relationships, make them feel a part of the literacy “club”, and elevate their intellectual history and legacy. These leading thinkers help us envision classrooms where children have a voice and leadership roles, and schools where students begin to enter adult spaces in order to influence education. Finally, we end with a deep discussion of the Warm Demander concept and why demanding is not the same as diminishing because the love and belief in the kids has to be there first. Join us!

For Further Learning:

The Silenced Dialogue:Power and Pedagogy in Educating Other People's Children by Lisa Delpit

Other People’s Children: Cultural Conflict in the Classroom by Lisa Delpit

“Multiplication is for White People”: Raising Expectations for Other People’s Children by Lisa Delpit

Teaching When the World Is on Fire: Authentic Classroom Advice, from Climate Justice to Black Lives Matter by Lisa Delpit
Radical Dreaming for Education Now by Dr. Jamila Dugan

Episode 26: “Redemption Moments": Grading as a Pathway to Equity with Joe Feldman Apr 18, 2024

In this hot-off-the-press episode, Alcine and Shane chop it up with Joe Feldman, author of Grading for Equity: What It Is, Why It Matters, and How It Can Transform Schools and Classrooms. As you listen in, you’ll get a primer on grading, assessment, and how to reimagine grading as a tool for equity. We dig into the principles of grading for equity including accuracy, transparency, and bias-resistance. Joe’s innovative work is transforming the field and bringing joy back into teaching as educators shed oppressive practices and colonial mindsets around grading. Join us for this illuminating conversation!

Further Learning:

[RE-RELEASE] Episode 2: “You Are Somebody’s Ancestor: Teach Like it” with Dr. Chris Emdin Mar 21, 2024

Today’s episode is a re-release from Season 1! Join hosts Shane Safir and Alcine Mumby as they dig deep with Dr. Christopher Emdin around how to be a good ancestor, biomimicry as a guide to school transformation, burning the pedagogical sage, and so much more. This episode will change you! A must-listen for all new administrators and teachers finding their way in complex times.

For Further Learning:

Order Chris’s book Rathedemic at http://www.beacon.org/Ratchetdemic-P1703.aspx
Read Chris’s foreword in Street Data to make connections to the pod conversation
Order adrienne marie brown’s Emergent Strategy at https://www.akpress.org/emergentstrategy.html

Episode 25: “My Life is a Series of Stories”: Reflecting on this Moment and Season 3 with Dr. Sawsan Jaber Dec 14, 2023

In this double-header, Alcine and Shane close out Season 3 by talking with Dr. Sawsan Jaber, internationally known educator and consultant. Sawsan shares her heart, her story, and her legacy as a descendant of Nakba survivors, helping listeners consider how centering Palestinian students helps us “lift all boats” and create more radically inclusive classrooms. From this powerful exchange, Alcine and Shane shift into a Season 3 reflection, offering moments that stayed with them and digging into Alcine’s wealth of knowledge on transformative assessment as well as Shane’s forthcoming book project, Pedagogies of Voice–for which Sawsan is a contributing writer. They close by previewing a slight shift in podcast rhythm for the upcoming Season 4, which will launch in February!

For Further Learning:

Get your copy of street data HERE. Use code STREETDATA for a 20% discount.
Want to try creating a grad profile or vision of a learner for your classroom, department, school or district? Here is Envision Learning Partners’ (ELP) Grad Profile quality criteria. LP has some criteria for creating high quality vision of a learner or grad profiles. Should I include it here, seeing that Sawson references grad profiles?
If you’d like to learn more about Envision Learning Partners and the work that Alcine does there, visit ELP at www.envisionlearning.org.
Listen to Episode 24: “Get Off Your Pedestal!” and Other Brilliant Advice from High School Student Leaders Ari and Harshan
Link the Episode 4: “What Does it Mean to Freedom Dream?”: Disrupting Traps and Tropes with Dr. Jamila Dugan
Link to Episode 12: “We Made Classrooms Public Spaces” with Jessica Huang and Matt Alexander

Episode 24: “Get Off Your Pedestal!” and Other Brilliant Advice from High School Student Leaders Ari and Harshan Nov 30, 2023

Today’s conversation with high school students Ari and Harshan is life-giving! These fearless leaders, along with 50 of their peers, have been using Street Data to shape school transformation projects on issues ranging from disrupting bullying through Indigenous, restorative practices to centering students’ mental health in schooling to reimagining assessment practices. In this episode, Shane and Alcine get to hear about Ari and Harshan’s names, the identities that matter to them, and the changes they seek at their schools. The episode ends with an exploration of the kinds of classrooms and conversations young people need in this complex, volatile moment we are living through. Don’t miss this wonderful dialogue!

For Further Learning:

Get your copy of Street Data by Corwin Press

Episode 23: A Mindset of Courage: How To Stop Doubting Ourselves with Dr. Montessa Muñoz Nov 16, 2023

In this beautiful conversation, Alcine and Shane embrace storientation to hear Dr. Montessa Muñoz’s journey from a young Latina mother to a school and district administrator, and what it has meant for her to be a role model for students who “look just like me.” We unpack the problem with making decisions for and about students based on satellite data alone and explore the “hack” of “students-as-consultants”... What happens when a bunch of school administrators are asked to sit in the back of the room and simply listen as 8-10 students talk about district-wide data on attendance and “achievement”? According to Montessa, the experience was “amazing… there were administrators in the back who were crying.” They also discuss the powerful, agentic experience of students serving on a Kiva Panel and Montessa’s radical dreams for assessment: to center student voice into a truly balanced assessment system.

For Further Learning:

Assessment Leadership: Leading a Balanced, Comprehensive Assessment System to Improve Teaching and Learning by Jessica Arnold and Robert Sheffield, with Chelsea Talakoub

Episode 22: "Leading Like a Teacher”: The Role of Deep Listening in School Transformation (Re-release) Nov 02, 2023

In this re-release of Episode 7, Alcine and Shane to listen and learn from Dr. Kevin Godden and Dr. Perry Smith, former Superintendent and Assistant Superintendent of the Abbotsford School District near Vancouver. Through one-inch windows into an evolving system, the conversation distills the role of deep listening in school transformation. We talk about Kevin’s first day of school in Canada as a Jamaican immigrant, confronting the ugliness of racism, and his mom’s messaging that restored him. We learn Perry’s journey of wanting to wear moccasins to school as a young Indigenous student in Abbotsford with virtually no representation around him. And we think about what it means to carry the heart of a teacher and lead like a teacher. Join us.

For Further Learning

Learn more about the Deeper Learning Dozen, a community of practice that supports superintendents to transform their school districts in ways that create equitable access to deeper learning experiences and outcomes.
Get a copy of Perry’s beautiful children’s book, Powwow Dancing with Family.

Episode 21: Students were “buzzing” and “empowered” as they transformed their schools, with Linda Pollastretti and Sandeep Gill Oct 19, 2023

In this inspiring conversation, Alcine and Shane listen to principal Linda Pollastretti and vice principal Sandeep Gill about how they supported teams of 11th grade students to engage in Street Data cycles. We learn about the ways these incredible leaders have been gathering Street Data, from home visits to “entrance interviews” to having students write their own stories. We walk alongside them and their students teams to witness how student voice can change the most sacred structures in schooling, such as bell schedules that create more flexibility for learners and assessments that attune to mental health needs. We also hear about how this work scaled organically emergently from one district all the way to the Ministry of Education for the province of British Columbia, when student voice leaders spoke to Ministry leaders, the BC Teacher’s Federation and the BC Trustees. Finally, we get a birdseye view of how to lead from behind students, resisting the urge to become defensive or reactive and learning that “I am not the problem solver. I am the engager and the listener. The kids will come up with the solution in the end.”

Episode 20: “Weaving a Sense of Belonging” with Native American Community Academy and NISN Leaders Stacey Coonis and Valerie Kie Oct 05, 2023

In this beautiful episode, Shane and Alcine listen to leaders Stacey Coonsis and Valerie Kie as they share their stories, identities, and deepest hopes for the schools they lead. As Elementary Head of School for the Native American Community Academy in Albuquerque, Stacey talks about what it means to lead as a Dine’ matriarch toward NACA’s mission of creating new leaders who are not just academically prepared, but also secure in their identities and wellbeing. We learn about NACA’s holistic data framework, the Wellness Wheel, and the family conferences in which students and families analyze the learner’s physical, community, and relational wellness. Val illuminates how the NACA-inspired School Network (NISN) expanded from NACA, the original school, to 13 Indigenous-centered and led schools across the country. We get a one-inch window into the original curriculum design work at NACA that helps to build a curriculum “indicative of (our) ways of knowing and being and the values (we) have.” And we dismantle the myth of “learning loss” as Stacey paints a vivid picture of what it looked like for Indigenous children to learn in community, alongside adults and elders, before there were formal schooling establishments during Covid.

For Further Learning:

Read the most recent 2021-22 State of New Mexico Tribal Education Status Report
Visit www.nacaschool.org to learn more about Native American Community Academy
Visit www.nacainspiredschoolsnetwork.org to learn more about the NACA-Inspired School Network (NISN)
NACA interactive Wellness Wheel. In order to complete the wheel, you will need to click at the center and go outward. Click on the question marks to see the guiding questions for each domain.

Episode 19: “We’ve been looking for you”: A Conversation with Dr. Sidney Stone Brown on Native Self-Actualization, Maslow’s Hierarchy, and the Data We Need Sep 21, 2023

In this conversation with Blackfoot scholar Dr. Sidney Stone Brown, Alcine and Shane are gifted many stories and teachings. We learn about the Native Self-Actualization model that Dr. Stone created and how she was told by her elders, “We’ve been looking for you” before she wrote her book. We dig into her original research into Abraham Maslow’s archives and discover the truth that Maslow’s concept was not originally a hierarchy, but that the corporations utilizing his work asked him to convert it into a pyramid to “motivate their employees”. We also explore the deep layers of what it means to heal, to come back to our wholeness, to understand time as circular rather than linear, and to situate listening as the ultimate act of transformation. Your heart will sing as you listen to Dr. Sidney Stone Brown.

For Further Learning:

Visit Dr. Sidney Stone Brown’s website www.transformationbeyondgreed.com/ to learn more about her work
Get your copy of Transformation Beyond Greed by Dr. Sidney Stone Brown, PsyD

Episode 18: CULT OF PEDAGOGY! “A Seat at the Table” with Jennifer Gonzalez and Amanda Liebel Sep 07, 2023

In this delightful dialogue with the wizard behind Cult of Pedagogy, Jennifer Gonzalez, and middle school drama teacher Amanda Liebel, Shane and Alcine walk alongside two brilliant educators to think about service, street data, and pedagogy. You’ll learn the origin story of the magical blog and podcast called Cult of Pedagogy. We’ll think about what it means to have a “heart of service”, as Amanda characterizes the deep work of teaching as always a reflective practice. We’ll also discuss how Shane, Jamila, and Jennifer came together to create a 9-hour free video series that tracks two teams of teachers as they move through the messiness and richness of the Street Data process! Finally, this episode offers vibrant one-inch windows into a pedagogy of student voice, including:

How to receive difficult street data from students with an open heart
How to take deeper risks in the classroom (for example, to “indigenize our learning spaces”)
Why being a perfectionist works against you as a teacher
And what it means to “walk alongside students” and listen to what they want

Enjoy this priceless conversation!

For Further Learning:

Listen to the original Cult of Pedagogy podcast episode with Shane and Jamila, “Street Data: A Path Toward Equitable, Anti-racist Schools” (October 5, 2021)
Access 9 hours of free professional learning in Street Data Cult of Pedagogy video series
Listen to the follow-up Cult of Pedagogy podcast episode about this learning series with Shane, Jamila, and Amanda (January 29, 2023)

Check out the mentioned Cult of Pedagogy podcast and blog on The Big List of Class Discussion Strategies

Episode 17: Building “A Place Called Home” with Math Educator Geniuses Crystal Watson and Dr. Dawn Williams Aug 24, 2023

Shane and Alcine are back with this on-FIRE conversation with Cincinnati math educators Crystal Watson and Dr. Dawn Williams who remind us that “The sun does not ask permission to shine, and neither do I.” These Black women leaders take us on a journey to understanding the type of math pedagogy that will transform and empower future generations of learners. We learn from Dr. Dawn why it’s important for leaders to create a place called home for teachers and, in turn, for students. Crystal and Dawn model a culture of listening to students as they enter classrooms, always asking, “How will that one child feel…?”, engaging in learning alongside students, all in efforts to affirm to students that the classroom is “your space”. They also teach us how to have a student-centered Data Meeting, how to support teachers to practice active listening (even when it’s uncomfortable!. They explain how anxiety specifically with math triggers fight or flight, diminished executive function, and distracting behaviors in the classroom and how building authentic and trusting relationships can help teachers guide students through that anxiety. Finally, we celebrate the truth that Black educators are “everything” while acknowledging the emotional labor of being a Black woman educational leader.

For further learning:

Principles for the Design of Mathematics Curricula: Promoting Language and Content Development with specific Math Language routines classroom teachers can implement
Books: The Memo and Right Within by Minda Harts on overcoming racial trauma and discrimination in the workplace

Book: Choosing to See by Dr. Pamela Seda and Kendall Brown

Episode 16: “Public Learning As a Way of Being”: A Conversation on Chapter 7 with Carrie Wilson and Jennifer Ahn Aug 10, 2023

Public Learning, a model developed by the organization Lead by Learning, is a practice that builds awareness in educators in order to better serve their students. Public Learning is not a formula for professional development, but rather a stance and a way of being that activates everything strong educators know about teaching and learning–the need for curiosity around a learner’s experience, the role of uncertainty and complexity, and so much more. In this illuminating conversation, the founder and current leader of Lead by Learning, Jennifer Ahn and Carrie Wilson, remind us of the power of public, reflective adult learning to create a path toward equity and antiracism in schools. These brilliant leaders help us think about what teachers need to genuinely learn and grow and how to infuse a pedagogy of voice at every level of the system.

You can follow Jennifer Ahn at Lead by Learning’s Instagram @leadbylearning_, Facebook @weleadbylearning, Twitter @Lead_byLearning, and LinkedIn at Lead by Learning.

For further learning:

Please link to any resources you would like to include in the show notes:

Learn more about public learning and other adult learning practices in Lead by Learning’s free playbook.
Read stories from educators on the ground who are engaging in public learning to better support students.

Watch a webinar on how teachers are using public learning and street data to challenge dominant data narratives

Episode 15: “Student Voice Changes the Conversation”: Reflecting on Season 2 with Alcine and Shane May 18, 2023

In this reflective conversation, Shane and Alcine wrap up Season 2 by sharing some of their own stories, lenses, and learning around the work. You’ll hear what’s emerging on the ground as Shane and Dr. Dugan try to bring the Street Data model to life through communities of practice. You’ll consider the difference between cultural appropriation and appreciation, tapping into the brilliance of Jo Chrona’s book Wayi Wah! Indigenous Pedagogies: An Act for Reconciliation and Anti-Racist Education. We also learn more about how Alcine’s mother influenced her student-centered pedagogy and how her experiences as a good test taker during desegregation efforts in the 1980’s shaped her views on standardized testing. And we say goodbye to our original producer, the incomparable Maya Cueva, who is off to work on a new film and other projects!

For Further Learning:

Podcasts
- Cheaper Than Therapy: Avoiding Resentment
- The Cult of Pedagogy with Jennifer Gonzalez
Books
- Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow by Gabrielle Zevin
- Wayi Wah! Indigenous Pedagogies by Jo Chrona
Articles
- Cultivating a Pedagogy of Student Voice by Shane Safir
- Metacognition in the Classroom: Benefits & Strategies
Films
Watch Maya’s film On The Divide ( https://vimeo.com/ondemand/onthedivide )

Episode 14: “You Are All Elders in Training” with Dr. Lisa Delpit and Dr. Jamila Dugan Apr 27, 2023

In this episode, you’ll listen at the feet of the incomparable scholar Dr. Lisa Delpit, whose books Other People’s Children and Multiplication Is for White People deeply impacted Shane and Alcine, alongside her brilliant mentee and Street Data co-author Dr. Jamila Dugan. We get a one-inch window into Dr. Delpit’s early experiences in “white teacher education” and the Open Classroom model where Black teachers’ wisdom and skill was often undervalued. We witness a beautiful exchange between Dr. Delpit and Dr. Dugan about the intergenerational work they are involved in and what it means for all of us to step into being elders in training. If you’re as confused as we are about the Science of Reading “debates”, this episode will help you shift and lift the discourse about literacy, as Dr. Delpit brings complexity and nuance, helping us all remember that while phonics is necessary, successful teachers of Black students do so much more: affirm their humanity, create relationships, make them feel a part of the literacy “club”, and elevate heir intellectual history and legacy. These leading thinkers help us envision classrooms where children have a voice and leadership roles, and schools where students begin to enter adult spaces in order to influence education. Finally, we end with a deep discussion of the Warm Demander concept and why demanding is not the same as diminishing because the love and belief in the kids has to be there first. Join us!

For Further Learning:

The Silenced Dialogue:Power and Pedagogy in Educating Other People's Children by Lisa Delpit

Other People’s Children: Cultural Conflict in the Classroom by Lisa Delpit

“Multiplication is for White People”: Raising Expectations for Other People’s Children by Lisa Delpit

Teaching When the World Is on Fire: Authentic Classroom Advice, from Climate Justice to Black Lives Matter by Lisa Delpit
Radical Dreaming for Education Now by Dr. Jamila Dugan

Episode 13: “The Beyonce Experience for Deeper Learning” with Gail Higginbottom and Jal Mehta Apr 13, 2023

Pod Squad, this episode just might make you cry. Join us as we walk through rural British Columbia and urban Baltimore, moving through the ancestral realm to Harvard board rooms to one guest’s grandma’s living room. We’ll talk about Indigenous fusion food (ever heard of Bannock French Toast?) and the pork chop dilemma of project-based learning: How do we neither undercook nor overcook the project? Also, what are the limitations of big studies and meta-research to help us understand the nuances and lasting impact of deep learning experiences. You’ll learn about Little Gail Higginbottom and what drove her to be the writer and fierce, heart-forward, equity-centered leader of Indigenous education she is today, and Little Jal Mehta’s pathway from an inquiry-based school (that his mom led!) to founding a community of 12 districts across North America that are blazing new trails for equity and deeper learning.

Equity is vulnerable work. We have to create cultural emotional spiritual safety for students, families and communities.

For Further Learning:

To learn more about the Deeper Learning Dozen, click here.
Get Jal and Sarah Fine’s book In Search of Deeper Learning here.
Gail’s reflection questions, inspired by the DLD teaching that “equity is structural”:
- How do we ensure student voice is leading this work?
- How do we decide who to include? How do we decide who to invite?
- How do we do that work safely?
- How do we ensure that students who share their stories are honoured, nurtured, and empowered?
- How do we ensure students are heard and their voices are amplified?
- How do we ensure these voices are listened to?
- What do we need to do to show those students that we care, that they matter, and we believe in them?

Episode 12: “We Made Classrooms Public Spaces” with Jessica Huang and Matt Alexander Mar 30, 2023

In Episode 12, Shane and Alcine dream with colleagues Matt Alexander and Jessica Huang, surfacing shared learning from a combined 80 plus years in education. Matt and Shane reminisce about the early years of teaching in San Francisco pre-No Child Left Behind and how they aspired toward a pedagogy of student voice. Jessica shares her experience working in international education in Asia where the West is “exporting stereotypes into neocolonial schools” and ways she is disrupting the Model Minority myth. These four leaders explore how the American Dream is a facade, lessons in democracy from the world of community organizing, and why leaders need a power analysis of their school communities. Finally, they consider what authentic accountability looks like and what it means to walk toward becoming elders in the movement for educational justice, and preview a project they are working on to “radically dream” together with educators across US + Canada.

For Further Learning:

Dive deeper into the 6 Key Aspects of Social Justice Pedagogy developed by June Jordan School for Social Justice educators.
Learn more about Faith in Action Bay Area and the work that they do to uphold the dignity of all people.
Read up on AB 540 which expanded in-state tuition eligibility in california and check out whether you may qualify.

Episode 11: “Calling BS on the System” with Joe Truss Mar 16, 2023

In Episode 11, Alcine and Shane get real with their dear friend and collaborator Joe Truss. Joe talks about what it was like growing up in San Francisco’s Tenderloin district in the 80’s and wondering, “Why am I finding success while my friends are not?” This experience eventually led him into the classroom where Joe illuminates the gap between the teacher he thought he was going to be versus the teacher he was in real life. Through student voice and feedback, he shifted many of his mindsets and practices, cultivating a way of being that he brought into his 6-year principalship in southeast San Francisco. Joe helps us unpack the difference between bringing a vision and co-constructing a vision with staff, the need to slow it all down, and the nefarious trap of power-hoarding that he continues to see in his work across North America. We conclude with the power of racial affinity as a space for differentiation learning and a vehicle for healing, leveraging our differences as our strengths, and understanding the need to co-conspire around shared goals.

For Further Learning:

Visit Joe’s website https://trussleadership.com/ to learn about his services and read his many publications.
Read Leading a District Antiracism Journey in the March 2023 issue of Educational Leadership magazine by Shane, Joe and Julie Kempkey
Racial Affinity Groups Aren’t Racist – They are the Secret Sauce in Antiracist Schools by Joe Truss and Jenn Berkowitz
What Happened When My School Started to Dismantle White Supremacy Culture by Joe Truss

Episode 10: “Learning in the Most Delicious Sense”: The Civil Rights Road to Deeper Learning Mar 02, 2023

In Episode 10, Alcine and Shane talk with thought leaders, and mother-daughter dynamic duo, Drs. Linda and Kia Darling-Hammond about their new book The Civil Rights Road to Deeper Learning: Five Essentials for Equity (Teachers College Press, 2022). Drawing on their intersections across 25 years in the field of public education, these four educators begin with a retrospective on the seminal Williams v. California lawsuit in which Shane and Linda both served as witnesses, pivoting to explore the next historic fight for equitable access. They dig into the legacy of the test-and-punish era and how testing has served as a barrier to deeper learning, and Linda drops some mind-blowing knowledge about the double discrimination baked into test questions. Finally, they dream together about equitable and just schools that elevate student voice and center performance-based assessments rather than tests.

For Further Learning

Read Linda and Kia’s book The Civil Rights Road to Deeper Learning: Five Essentials for Equity
Review Chapter 6 of Street Data, which profiles performance assessment

EP 9 SEASON 1 REFLECTION: “What is your thing” to own as an educator? Feb 09, 2023

In this brief retrospective episode, Shane, Alcine and their 'Magic Millennial' producer, Maya Cueva look back at Season 1, reflecting on the moments that nested deepest in their hearts. You’ll get to hear or revisit impactful clips from guests in Season 1 and hear about what our producer Maya Cueva is up to on her other projects. The hosts also talk about current innovations from outside of education, including sobriety “quit lit” and Dr. Gabor Maté’s incredible work on childhood development, trauma and the potential lifelong impacts on physical and mental health conditions that show up daily in our schools and classrooms. As we prepare to launch Season 2 in February, Alcine invokes Dr. Jamila Dugan’s invitation in Episode 4: “How do I dream bigger and in community? Who do I need to be in community with so that my dreams become bigger?” Join us and dream with us about next-generation schools that affirm love and value every child!

For Further Learning:

Learn about Producer Maya Cueva’s PBS project On the Divide
Host a screening of On The Divide vía GOOD Docs! https://gooddocs.net/products/on-the-divide
Episodes mentioned and excerpted include: https://www.onthedividemovie.com
- - Episode 4: “What Does it Mean to Freedom Dream?”: Disrupting Traps and Tropes with Dr. Jamila Dugan
  - Episode 6: “We Need to Marginalize Standardized Testing” with Young Whan Choi
  - Episode 8: “Connecting Present to Past”: The Impact of Critical Pedagogy with Rocky Rivera and Norma Gallegos
- If you’re interested in listening to Tales of The Town, the podcast about Oakland — listen here. You can also get tickets to the Tales of The Town film: https://www.talesofthetown.info
- Tales of the Town Podcast : https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/introducing-tales-of-the-town-a-podcast-about-black-oakland/id1235932328?i=1000579592977
- Get Dr. Gholdy Mohammed’s Cultivating Genius

Episode 8: “Connecting Present to Past”: The Impact of Critical Pedagogy Dec 08, 2022

In Episode 8, Alcine and Shane reminisce and dream with two of Shane’s former students, alumni of the BALMA Project featured in Chapter 5 of Street Data. Hip hop artist and journalist Rocky Rivera and auto technician/former paraprofessional Norma Gallegos share tales of growing up in San Francisco’s Excelsior District that are equal parts heartbreaking and heartwarming. Looking at their own trajectories as learners, Norma and Rocky help us explore what success really means when we view education as a long game rather than a test-driven shell game. With tears and joy, the conversation explores the features of what Rocky calls “intentional pedagogy”: the kinds of assignments that cultivate deeper learning, the types of instructional experiences that cultivate student agency, and the impact of access to critical literacy and a community where you feel you belong. Don’t sleep on this episode.

For Further Learning

To follow Rocky’s work, subscribe to her Patreon, and/or get a copy of Snakeskin: Essays by Rocky Rivera, click here.
If you’re interested in watching a 15-minute retrospective video on the BALMA Project in Chapter 5 of Street Data, click here.
Visit Norma at Pat’s Garage in SF to get your car fixed. (or help her get a job at SFMTA if you got a hook-up!)

Episode 7: ”Leading Like a Teacher”: The Role of Deep Listening in School Transformation Nov 11, 2022

In Episode 7, Alcine and Shane lean in to listen and learn from Dr. Kevin Godden and Perry Smith, Superintendent and Assistant Superintendent of the Abbotsford School District near Vancouver. Through story and one-inch windows into an evolving system, the conversation distills the role of deep listening in school transformation. We talk about Kevin’s first day of school in Canada as a Jamaican immigrant, confronting the ugliness of racism, and his mom’s message. We learn Perry’s story of wanting to wear moccasins to school as a young Indigenous student, in Abbotsford himself, with virtually no representation around him. And we think about what it means to carry the heart of a teacher and lead like a teacher. Join us.

For Further Learning

Learn more about the Deeper Learning Dozen, a community of practice that supports superintendents to transform their school districts in ways that create equitable access to deeper learning experiences and outcomes.
Get a copy of Perry’s beautiful children’s book, Powwow Dancing with Family.

Episode 6: “We Need to Marginalize Standardized Testing” with Young Whan Choi Nov 03, 2022

In an emotional Episode 6, Alcine and Shane get real with author and educator Young Whan Choi, witnessing his personal story of marginalization in school and how it took another Asian man–during college orientation–to help him see himself for the first time in American history. Together, they explore ways of being and leading in education that truly center students. Young Whan implores us to “marginalize” standardized testing, or at least push it to the periphery, as he offers a vision of authentic, community-based, performance assessments that demonstrate what students know and are able to do. He exposes the irony that, while many new leaders evoke the principle of being “student-centered”, students themselves are often painfully absent from professional learning agendas, except perhaps as an aggregated data point. And finally, Young Whan helps us rethink where knowledge lives and where power exists within the system.

For Further Learning

- Get a copy of Street Data on Amazon, Corwin Press, or from a BIPOC-owned local bookstore.
- Get a copy of Young Whan’s book, Sparks Into Fire: Revitalizing Teacher Practice Through Collective Learning at Teachers’ College Press.
- Read Shane’s recent Ed Week article on standardized testing.

Watch Awo Okaikor Aryee-Price, Wayne Au, Denisha Jones and Jesse Hagopian discuss the racist history of standardized testing and its impacts today in The Racist History of Standardized Testing

Episode 5: “Tear Down the Schoolhouse” with Melissa Biggerstaff Oct 27, 2022

In Episode 5, Alcine and Shane talk to rural Kentucky district leader Melissa Biggerstaff. They hear her story about growing up in a district where your zip code and last name determined your opportunities. Lean in to hear about a conversation with a high school counselor that Melissa will never forget and that continues to fuel her moral imperative to this day. Finally, Melissa unpacks what it means to show up fully as a leader–to learn from and really listen to community members–and why we need to meet people where they are- especially physically- if we want to create radically inclusive institutions.

For Further Learning:

Get a copy of Street Data on Amazon, Corwin Press, or from a BIPOC-owned local bookstore.

Episode 4: “What Does it Mean to Freedom Dream?”: Disrupting Traps and Tropes with Dr. Jamila Dugan Oct 20, 2022

In Episode 4, co-author Jamila Dugan is back and giving us the inside scope on equity traps and tropes. First, we dig into how this chapter came to be (spoiler alert: from a rant!) and the conversation shifts to the luminous landscape of radical dreaming, exploring, in Jamila’s words: “What does it actively mean to freedom dream and who am I dreaming with?” Shane, Jamila, and Alcine think about how to live a life of big dreams and abundance, and the ways that hustle and grind culture often dims our dreams. Jamila shares some brilliant tips, like reverse calendaring and–drum roll–taking the email app off your phone!

For Further Learning:

Get a copy of Street Data on Amazon, Corwin Press, or from a BIPOC-owned local bookstore.
Read Jamila's recent EL Magazine article on Radical Dreaming here.
Work with the Equity Traps and Tropes Inquiry Tool Jamila mentions.
Check out Freedom Dreams: The Black Radical Imagination by Robin D.G. Kelley.

Episode 3: ”Walking Shoulder to Shoulder with Children” with Denise Augustine and Jamila Dugan Oct 13, 2022

In this episode, Shane and Alcine get to talk with co-author Jamila Dugan and Denise Augustine, whose work leading Indigenous education in British Columbia (BC) forms the central storyline of Chapter 1. Together, they explore what folx believe we should be teaching and measure, other epistemologies (ways of knowing and being), and ways to heal and transform our schools in challenging times. Listen to Denise’s story of how her mom supported her to find her voice with a teacher when a science assignment pushed against Denise’s cultural values. Hear Jamila reflect on what it means to start owning her experience growing up in East Oakland and being shaped by “grittiness, real talk, hip hop, and hustle”. You’ll also learn about Truth and Reconciliation in BC, Jamila’s core beliefs around teaching and learning, and the educational experiences that have shaped these two incredible leaders. If you didn’t believe it before, you’ll walk away internalizing the idea that there are many “right” answers, many right ways, and many right paths along the journey to school transformation.

For Further Learning:

BC Competency-Based Curriculum
BC First Peoples' Principles of Learning
Teaching Each Other, Goulet and Goulet (referenced by Denise)
Wayi Wah! Indigenous Pedagogies: An Act for Reconciliation and Anti-racist Education, Jo Chrona (referenced by Denise)

Episode 2: ”You Are Somebody’s Ancestor: Teach Like it” with Dr. Chris Emdin Oct 07, 2022

Join hosts Shane Safir and Alcine Mumby as they dig deep with Dr. Christopher Emdin around how to be a good ancestor, biomimicry as a guide to school transformation, burning the pedagogical sage, and so much more. This episode will change you. A must-listen for all new administrators and teachers finding their way in complex times.

For Further Learning:

Order Chris’s book Rathedemic at http://www.beacon.org/Ratchetdemic-P1703.aspx
Read Chris’s foreword in Street Data to make connections to the pod conversation
Order adrienne marie brown’s Emergent Strategy at https://www.akpress.org/emergentstrategy.html

Episode 1: Learning, Living, and Leading Together Sep 30, 2022

Join Shane Safir and Alcine Mumby as they launch Street Data Pod: Imagining the Next Generation of Education. They each share their “why” for this project and name some ways of being that help them navigate working across differences. You’ll also hear what people get wrong about the work they do and what kind of data they think educators must collect in these complex times to be alive and human.

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