Songwriters on Process

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Allison Russell and Aoife O'Donovan Feb 07, 2022

Show notes

Allison Russell & Aoife O'Donovan talk about the songwriting process as full-time moms. Hint: there's not a process.
“We’re working moms, so the best undisturbed time is between midnight and 4am.”—Allison Russell
“I’m not the ‘lounge around’ type of person. There’s not one wasted hour in my day.” —Aoife O’Donovan

Russell and O’Donovan are full-time songwriters of course, but they’re moms first. So what you won’t hear in our conversation is how wonderful it is to wake up, have a leisurely cup of coffee, lounge on the couch with a guitar, and write undisturbed. Songwriting ritual? What’s that?

What you will hear is the phrase “we’re working moms” several times from both of them. You’ll hear how Russell writes between midnight and 4am because it’s often the only alone time she has. You’ll hear how she develops melodies and plays beats on her body while she’s in the shower—and how the shower was where she went to cry when she was a new mother. You’ll hear how O’Donovan gets so many of her song ideas while she’s running; sure, exercise spurs creativity, but it’s also alone time. You’ll hear how the practicalities of being a parent and full-time songwriter involve driving kids places and being without childcare and trying to help with schoolwork—all while trying to write an album. And you’ll hear how during the early stages of the pandemic they were managing school lessons over Zoom, and how in the heck can you write songs when your kids are home and your time is someone else’s?

It’s no wonder O’Donovan told me there are no wasted hours in her day and that she writes best while her body is in motion. Because when you’re a working mom, when is it not in motion?

Despite their limited time, both women have put out fantastic music recently. Russell’s first solo album Outside Child has been nominated for a GRAMMY for Best Americana Album, and the single “Nightflyer” has been nominated for two GRAMMYs in Best Americana Roots Performance & Best Americana Roots Song. O’Donovan has a fantastic new album Age of Apathy. The song “Prodigal Daughter” features Allison Russell.

Ben Bridwell from Band of Horses Feb 06, 2022

Show notes

Ben talks to Ben: Songwriters on Process interviews Ben Bridwell from Band of Horses.
Fun fact: this is not the first time I've interviewed Bridwell. The first was in 2015, when the amazing Sera Cahoone hooked us up with each other.

Like most songwriters, Ben Bridwell from Band of Horses has found the past two years to be a bane to his creative process. With few exceptions, songwriters have told me that dark days are not conducive to creativity. As Carl Newman of The New Pornographers said to me, “Some people say that they write best when they're sad or depressed. I don't get that. Because when I'm sad or depressed, I'm crippled beyond writing.’” In our 2019 interview, Jim James of My Morning Jacket decried the myth of the tortured artist. Patterson Hood and Lilly Hiatt told me that they wrote a lot for about a month after the pandemic started, but that was it. Gloominess aside, if your songwriting centers around conversations you hear and people you see, what’s there to write about if you hear nothing and see nothing?

The pandemic has not been good for Ben Bridwell of Band of Horses. “It did not lead to me writing more stuff. It messed me up,” he told me. Large expanses of time—no touring, after all—have not led to more songwriting. In fact, all this time has made him feel “listless.” The breakup of Bridwell’s marriage has made things even tougher, and the freedom to write whenever he wants actually makes him want to write less. “All this freedom makes me push it away,” he says. “I never did that when there was structure. When I had a routine, it was easy to create. Without that, I’m listless.”
While Bridwell’s creative process may have changed in seven years because of family upheaval, one element remains constant: crossword puzzles. Just as he told me seven years ago, he uses crossword puzzles as a way to explore language and wordplay.

The latest album by Band of Horses is called Things are Great.