So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

Latest Episodes:

Ep. 255: Authoritarians in the Academy Oct 15, 2025

Show notes

FIRE Senior Scholar Sarah McLaughlin discusses her new book, "Authoritarians in the Academy: How the Internationalization of Higher Education and Borderless Censorship Threaten Free Speech."

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

01:17 Book origins

03:38 How China censored speech on American campuses

18:36 COVID's impact for international students' speech

22:05 What is sensitivity exploitation?

25:35 Free speech at international satellite campuses

31:28 Attempted deportations of Mahmoud Khalil and Rümeysa Öztürk

36:52 Sarah's free speech inspirations: literature and people

About the Guest: Learn more about Sarah McLaughlin and her work.

Get the Book: Purchase Authoritarians in the Academy here.

Read the transcript here: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-transcript-authoritarians-academy

Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today (https://www.thefire.org/) and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.

Ep. 254: What is going on with the FCC? Sep 30, 2025

Show notes

What is the Federal Communications Commission, and why does its chairman think the agency can regulate Jimmy Kimmel's jokes?

Note: Shortly after recording this episode, Nexstar and Sinclair announced they would return "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" to their stations.

Joining us:

Anna Gomez, FCC Commissioner
Ronnie London, FIRE General Counsel
Bob Corn-Revere, FIRE Chief Counsel

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

04:46 What's the FCC?

07:35 What's the "public interest" standard?

14:20 What is the "fairness doctrine"?

25:21 What is the "broadcast hoax" rule?

28:55 What is "news distortion"?

35:31 Role of network affiliates

41:15 What happens now?

Read the transcript here: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-what-going-fcc

Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.

Ep. 253: Pam Bondi says hate speech is not free speech — is she right? Sep 16, 2025

Show notes

FIRE staff also take your questions on Charlie Kirk's assassination, President Trump's lawsuit against The New York Times, cancel culture, and more.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

01:42 Attorney General Pam Bondi's comments that "hate speech" is distinct from "free speech"

02:23 Is it OK for the Department of Justice to target people for "hate speech"?

05:42 How have "hate speech" laws played out overseas?

07:19 President Trump's response to Pam Bondi's "hate speech" remarks

08:50 Are "fighting words," "incitement," and "true threats" free speech?

11:22 What about doxxing?

15:15 Is it free speech to celebrate or condone the assassination of Charlie Kirk?

21:52 The termination of k-12 and university faculty in response to their commentary on Kirk's assassination

28:40 Is there a law that might implicate the Discord users who had reason to be aware of malicious intentions the shooter had towards Kirk ahead of the assassination?

30:05 The agency of speakers and those hearing their speech under the incitement standard

31:14 What are the differences between the free speech rights of citizens and non-citizens?

36:20 Does a court filing by President Trump as an individual in the New York Times lawsuit open him up to being deposed about a wide range of behaviors and actions?

37:40 What is the Trump's administration's legal strategy with the New York Times lawsuit?

39:24 What is FIRE doing about private employees being fired for their political commentary?

46:50 What is Charlie Kirk's legacy on free speech?

50:04 What is the difference between the academic protections enjoyed by tenured and non-tenured faculty members?

52:05 Does FIRE trust the Supreme Court to protect free speech?

56:12 How can we prevent capitulation from The New York Times?

59:20 How can ordinary people safely express their opinions on social media and promote civil discourse?

Joining us:

Ronnie London, general counsel

Sarah McLaughlin, senior scholar, global expression

Aaron Terr, director of public advocacy

Ep. 252: America's first free speech crisis — the Sedition Act of 1798 Sep 15, 2025

Show notes

We're joined by award-winning author, Charles (Charlie) Slack, to discuss his book, Liberty's First Crisis: Adams, Jefferson and the Misfits Who Saved Free Speech.

Slack focuses on the infamous Sedition Act of 1798, which sparked the first major controversy over freedom of speech in America.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro (including note about Charlie Kirk)

03:59 Book origins

12:05 What were the Alien and Sedition Acts?

16:00 Prosecutions under the Act and their free speech implications

25:35 Free speech during the Revolutionary era

28:14 Adams' perspective on the Sedition Act

46:02 Was Supreme Court Justice Samuel Chase a partisan hack?

53:57 Sedition Act fallout

01:01:02 Outro

Read the transcript here.

Ep. 251: Free speech and 'the executive power' with Advisory Opinions Sep 04, 2025

Show notes

What are the limits of presidential power? How many days has it been since President Trump's TikTok ban moratorium went into place? What is the state of the conservative legal movement? And where did former FIRE president David French go on his first date?

French and Sarah Isgur of the popular legal podcast "Advisory Opinions" join the show to answer these questions and discuss the few free speech issues where they disagree with FIRE.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

02:18 Origin story of "Advisory Opinions"

08:15 Disagreements between FIRE and AO

15:04 Why FIRE doesn't editorialize on the content of speech

24:27 Limits of presidential power

43:30 Free speech, the dread of tyrants

51:01 The prosecution of political figures

58:01 Cracker Barrel

01:00:09 State of the conservative legal movement

Read the podcast transcript here.

Ep. 250: Civil rights, hate speech, and the First Amendment Aug 28, 2025

Show notes

We know the First Amendment protects hate speech. But has it always done so? And how have civil rights groups responded when their members are the target of hate speech?

University of Iowa Law Professor Samantha Barbas is the author of a new law review article, "How American Civil Rights Groups Defeated Hate Speech Laws."

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

04:04 "The Birth of a Nation" movie controversy

12:44 Henry Ford's anti-Semitic "Dearborn Independent"

22:41 American Jewish Committee's "quarantining" solution

28:41 ACLU's Eleanor Holmes Norton defending a racist in court

33:42 Racist Senate candidate J.B. Stoner

37:28 Neo-Nazis and Skokie

47:20 Why are college students afraid of saying "the wrong thing?"

52:31 Barbas' favorite free speech literature

53:15 Barbas' free speech hero

Read the transcript here: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-civil-rights-hate-speech-and-first-amendment.

Show notes:

Morris Ernst, free speech renegade (Barbas' previous So to Speak appearance, July 29, 2021)
Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969) via FIRE

Ep. 249: FIRE Reacts — Where does Harvard go from here? With Larry Summers Aug 12, 2025

Show notes

2025 has not been kind to Harvard.

To date, the Trump administration has revoked nearly $3 billion in research funding to the university, demanding violations of free speech, academic freedom, and institutional autonomy in return for restoring the funding. In response, Harvard filed a lawsuit, raising First Amendment claims.

Helping us unpack all things Harvard are:

Larry Summers, President Emeritus, professor (Harvard) & advisory council member (FIRE)
Greg Lukianoff, President & CEO (FIRE)

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

02:32 Harvard's disputes with the Trump administration

08:29 The need for internal reforms at Harvard

42:50 Institutional neutrality debate

46:16 IHRA definition of anti-Semitism

01:01:28 Latest update on potential Harvard-Trump administration settlement

Read the transcript here: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-fire-reacts-where-does-harvard-go-here-larry-summers

Show notes:

The War on Words: 10 Arguments Against Free Speech—and Why They Fail by Greg Lukianoff & Nadine Strossen (2025)

Ep. 248: Commercial speech and the First Amendment Aug 06, 2025

Show notes

Imagine the government forcing you to label your all-natural milk product as "imitation."

Florida tried to make one dairy farm do just that, sparking a First Amendment question: Where's the line between a business's right to speak and protecting consumers from deception?

In this episode, we explore how far free speech protections go for commercial speech with:

Justin Pearson, managing attorney (Institute for Justice)
Bob Corn-Revere, chief counsel (FIRE)
Eugene Volokh, Thomas M. Siebel senior fellow (Hoover Institution, Stanford)

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

05:03 What exactly is commercial speech?

08:25 The evolution of commercial speech law

13:59 Early regulation of commercial speech

23:03 What is false or misleading commercial speech?

26:04 Controversial regulations of non-misleading commercial speech

37:35 Future of commercial speech regulations

Read the transcript: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-state-commercial-speech

Coming up: Live episode of So To Speak

On Monday, August 11th at 4 p.m. Eastern Time, Nico will be speaking with former Treasury Secretary/Harvard University president, Larry Summers, and FIRE President/CEO, Greg Lukianoff. They will discuss the Trump administration's campaign against elite universities, including Harvard, what outcomes we can expect from that campaign, and what those outcomes might mean for free speech, academic freedom, and university independence.

Show notes:

Ep. 247: Justin Amash Jul 24, 2025

Show notes

Throughout his career, former Congressman Justin Amash has been a strong advocate for freedom of speech, writing that "The value of free speech comes from encountering views that are unorthodox, uncommon, or unaccepted…Free speech is a barren concept if people are limited to expressing views already widely held."

In this special live episode, filmed in front of 200+ high schoolers attending FIRE's Free Speech Forum at American University in Washington, D.C., Amash takes questions from the audience and discusses his upbringing, his political career, the state of American politics, and how the Constitution guided his work in Congress.

Earlier this year, Congressman Amash joined FIRE's Advisory Council.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

03:30 Upbringing

06:21 Law school

13:15 Time in Congress

15:59 Why Amash publicly explained each of his votes

26:30 On being the first libertarian in Congress

30:57 Connection between his principles and free speech

33:10 Trump's first impeachment

42:48 Dealing with pushback from constituents

46:03 Term limits for members of Congress?

55:25 How high schoolers can pursue a career in politics

59:45 Has there been a regression in First Amendment protections?

01:07:32 What Amash is up to now

01:08:06 Outro

Read the transcript here: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-justin-amash

Ep. 246: Tech check — AI moratorium, Character AI lawsuit, FTC, Digital Services Act, and FSC v. Paxton Jul 10, 2025

Show notes

We're checking in on the latest news in tech and free speech.

We cover the state AI regulation moratorium that failed in Congress, the ongoing Character A.I. lawsuit, the Federal Trade Commission's consent decree with Omnicom and Interpublic Group, the European Union's Digital Services Act, and what comes next after the Supreme Court's Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton decision.

Guests:

Ari Cohn — lead counsel for tech policy, FIRE

Corbin Barthold — internet policy counsel, TechFreedom

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

02:38 State AI regulation moratorium fails in Congress

20:04 Character AI lawsuit

41:10 FTC, Omnicom x IPG merger, and Media Matters

56:09 Digital Services Act

01:02:43 FSC v. Paxton decision

01:10:49 Outro

Read the transcript here: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-tech-check-ai-moratorium-character-ai-lawsuit-ftc