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Securely Attached — Kids & Family
Securely Attached

Securely Attached is your go-to parenting podcast, supporting moms and dads from pregnancy all the way through their child’s adolescence and every stage in between.

Join us every Tuesday as clinical psychologist and mom of two Dr. Sarah Bren shares her expertise and interviews top experts in the field, simplifying complicated concepts and pulling back the curtain on the brain science and psychology that drives and shapes the parent-child relationship.

And now, every Thursday, Dr. Sarah Bren is joined by Dr. Emily Upshur and Dr. Rebecca Hershberg for a special segment, Beyond The Sessions. We’re answering YOUR parenting questions from the perspective of clinical psychologists highly trained in developmental science and real-life moms who get that parenting is messy, and sometimes we have to laugh, cry, and throw out the “rules.”

From toddler tantrums, to effective discipline strategies, to leaning into the principles of respectful parenting, and to managing your own mental wellness as a parent—this podcast is your ultimate resource for judgment-free, research-backed information you know you can trust.

About Sarah Bren, PhD
Dr. Sarah Bren is a licensed clinical psychologist and mom of two who helps parents understand the building blocks of child development and how secure relationships form and thrive. Her work is focused on helping parents find their inner confidence so they can respond to any parenting problem that comes along and raise kids who are healthy, resilient, and kind.

Copyright: © 2023

Latest Episodes:

Finding support in pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and parenthood with Doula and activist Chanel Porchia-Albert Aug 15, 2023

Show notes

The care we provide for mothers, helping them to feel seen and supported, not only changes the way they internalize their self worth, but the trajectory of the perceived value they internalize and pass along to their children.

Joining me in this episode is Chanel Porchia-Albert, the founder and Chief Executive Director of Ancient Song Doula Services and activist in the fight for birth equality for all, regardless of race, location, or socio economic status.

Together we'll help all expecting or soon-to-be expecting new parents know more about their options, learn what questions to ask of themselves and their doctors, and what exactly to consider to help them feel most cared for during their pregnancy and birth experience.

I want to hear from you! Send me a topic you want me to cover or a question you want answered on the show!

✨ DM me on Instagram at @securelyattachedpodcast or @drsarahbren

✨ Send an email to sarah@drsarahbren.com

✨ And check out drsarahbren.com for more parenting resources

Q&A: How can I tell my toddler that I had a miscarriage? Aug 10, 2023

Show notes

Beyond the Sessions is answering YOUR parenting questions! In this episode, Dr. Rebecca Hershberg, Dr. Emily Upshur, and I talk about...

3:15 - The perceptiveness of toddlers and why kids often know more than we realize.

5:26 - How to explain to a toddler in a simple, honest, and developmentally appropriate way that there is no longer a baby in Mommy's belly.

7:48 - The specific words and language that is best to use with toddlers (and what we want to try to avoid) when telling them about the loss of a baby.

13:06 - How to help ease a child's anxiety after a conversation about loss or death.

16:33 - Understanding behavioral changes that may occur when a child is processing grief and how these themes can emerge in their play.

20:02 - Recognizing why certain behavioral shifts may be happening and the benefit of acknowledging them directly with your child.

✨We want to hear from you! Go to https://drsarahbren.com/question to send us a question or a topic you want to hear us answer on Securely Attached - Beyond the Sessions! ✨

Sleep training, bed sharing, contact sleep, and postpartum: The neuroscience of sleep with Dr. Greer Kirshenbaum Aug 08, 2023

Show notes

Navigating baby sleep advice? Neuroscientist Dr. Greer Kirshenbaum cuts through the noise on sleep training, bed sharing, and contact sleep. This episode uncovers the neuroscience of sleep for infants and toddlers, helping parents make informed decisions without judgment. Understand why night waking is normal, how responsiveness shapes your baby's brain, and the true impact of sleep interventions on child sleep development. Empower your postpartum parenting with science-backed insights for a more peaceful family sleep journey. Together we explore: Understanding Baby Sleep: Learn why infant sleep cycles differ from adult sleep, and that night waking in babies is a normal physiological and developmental process. Sleep Training Neuroscience: Discover how sleep training primarily alters a baby's signaling behavior rather than significantly increasing total sleep duration, based on recent video studies. Responsive Parenting & Brain Development: Explore how parental responsiveness to a baby's cues shapes their brain's threat circuitry, fostering a crucial association between sleep and safety. Navigating Sleep Training Methods: Understand the wide range of sleep training techniques, from "cry it out" to more "gentle" approaches like Ferber, and their implications for infant regulation. Safe Bed Sharing Practices: Get crucial information on how to safely practice bed sharing, a common but often unguided parental behavior, to avoid dangerous alternatives like sleeping on couches. Parental Anxiety & Sleep: Discuss how societal pressures around baby sleep can significantly contribute to maternal and postpartum anxiety, emphasizing the importance of individualized, shame-free choices. The Power of Connection in Sleep: Learn how contact sleep and close proximity can regulate both baby and parent, building strong bonds and optimizing brain architecture even during sleep. Repairing Past Sleep Choices: Gain compassionate guidance on how parents who have previously sleep-trained can still redouble down on nurturing and connection, knowing the brain continually benefits from secure attachment. LEARN MORE ABOUT MY GUEST: 👉🏻 https://www.nurture-neuroscience.com 📚 The Nurture Revolution: Grow Your Baby's Brain and Transform Their Mental Health through the Art of Nurtured Parenting 📷 Follow @nurture_neuroscience_parenting on Instagram CHECK OUT ADDITIONAL PODCAST EPISODES YOU MAY LIKE: 🎧 94. Toddler sleep: Why it's different than infant sleep and how to use the attachment relationship to help them fall asleep, with Eileen Henry 🎧 254. Back by popular demand: Attachment theory and fostering secure attachment relationships 🎧 244. Understanding parental dysregulation: How to identify and manage your triggers with Dr. Amber Thornton Click here to read the full transcript Dr. Greer (00:00:00): In sleep, that's where their brain is building. That's where the circuits are building. They're consolidating all their information and while they have the safety signals of their caregivers during sleep, when they can smell, you touch you. All of these things, babies sleep longer because they're not experiencing this higher level of stress. Dr. Sarah (00:00:29): It is impossible to Google the words "baby sleep" without being completely inundated with a barrage of sleep training ads and methods, all claiming to do a gentlest fastest best. But what does the science and the research actually show about effective and healthy sleep training and how it impacts our children, our infants and parents? I am so thrilled to have neuroscientist, doula and the author of the book, The Nurture Revolution: Grow Your Baby's Brain and Transform Their Mental Health Through the Art of Nurtured Parenting, Dr. Greer Kirshenbaum back on the podcast to talk about the science of sleep. We are not, I repeat. We are not going to tell you what you should or shouldn't do. Our goal in this episode is only to equip you with all the information that you need to have so that you are able to make informed decisions about what is best for you and your unique family with no shame, no judgment, no pressure, and no fear. I hope that that is helpful. (00:01:46): Hi, I'm Dr. Sarah Bren, a clinical psychologist and mom of two. In this podcast, I've taken all of my clinical experience, current research on brain science and child psychology and the insights I've gained on my own parenting journey and distilled everything down into easy to understand and actionable parenting insights so you can tune out the noise and tune into your own authentic parenting voice with confidence and calm. This is Securely Attached. (00:02:25): Hey everyone. You are going to recognize my guest. If you have listened to our previous episode, I am thrilled because Dr. Greer Kirshenbaum is back today to talk about the neuroscience of sleep and sleep learning and sleep training and all the things. And I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for coming. Dr. Greer (00:02:47): Thank you. Thank you so much. I always get both nervous and excited to dive into infant sleep because it's a very emotional and passionate subject of mine and of parents. It's a heated topic for lots of reasons. Dr. Sarah (00:03:06): It is, and I feel the same way. I feel nervous and excited because one, as a parent who has two kids who definitely values my sleep and their sleep, I am interested in learning ways to support it that benefit me, that help me. I love my kids. I want them to be healthy and happy and securely attached. And I also really want to sleep. But also as a person who works with parents, I know that it is not simple. It is not black and white. Good, bad. It's complicated and I feel like you are a very, very good person to have come on because we can talk about the data, the science, the information, but we could talk about it in a way that does not put parents in a position where they have to pick something that they're backed into a corner. And this is like I want parents to, like you were just saying before we hit record, have the capacity for making an informed choice, but it's still a choice. Dr. Greer (00:04:12): Yes. And I think parents, the way it stands now don't usually have informed choice. I think right now sleep training seems to be the only choice or the only route to go for lots of families where they think, whether they feel comfortable with it or not. That message is out there so strongly and that's changing a little bit, but mostly out there so strongly that it's the only way to handle infant sleep, the only way that sleep will ever develop in a healthy way, the only way that parents can maintain their sanity. It's absolutely necessary. It may be hard, but it's necessary. And there's a lot of parents who might not make that choice if they were given informed choice with sleep. So to clear it up right now to say there's a lot of choices to make that use different sleep training methods and there's a lot of choices to make to support infant sleep as it develops, and that allows relief for a lot of people. Dr. Sarah (00:05:20): Yes. And I'll add too, I think, and we'll talk about this I'm sure, but one, I think we have to define sleep training because there's a million, it's one of those words or phrases now that's kicked around so much that we actually have no idea what anyone's talking about when they say sleep training because there's an infinite number ways now to approach it and we all label it the same thing. And so that's very confusing. So I think that's really important to talk about what we're talking about when we say sleep training. But the other thing that I think is very important is we're talking a little bit about infant, but I also think a lot of what we're talking about can be applied to toddler and older kids' sleep and importantly, so because I think a lot of parents who are listening to this may not have a brand new baby. If you do, you are in the right place. You are going to be set up for a success right now. But if you have a older kid and you've already done sleep training, you might sit here being like, oh my god, and I don't want parents to do that. You're going to make sure you not feel that way by the end of this episode because that's not the point of this. Dr. Greer (00:06:27): Absolutely. And I think it's really important to normalize as well, whether sleep training is done or not, that babies, toddlers and children, many do need support at night and support with sleep. And I think a lot of parents can feel shame if their children do need that, right? Something's wrong with me, something's wrong with my child, something's wrong with their sleep. And so going over some of the expected sleep physiology of babies and children can also be really helpful for parents to know that supporting it, listening to what their child needs at night. That's great and really beneficial too, regardless of their age. Dr. Sarah (00:07:10): Yes. Okay, so then let's start there. Let's start with the physiology and the neuroscience piece because you do an incredible job explaining this. And by the way, your book, The Nurture Revolution, is a great resource for all of this stuff. So I'll link that book in the show notes, but that's really a great resource. But can you lay out what we know? Dr. Greer (00:07:34): And when I talk about infant sleep, it's zero to three years old, so that does include babies and toddlers. But what many of us would talk about, and their sleep is very different than adult sleep. I think a lot of times in our culture it's expected, okay, by the time baby's four months or six months old time for them to sleep like an adult. And that is just not what their brain and body is going to do. It's really important to say as well, before we talk about what's typical for infant sleep, there's a huge range, huge, huge, huge range of what is normal in terms of number of hours that babies sleep over 24 hours, the number of naps, the length of naps, and so any of those resources out there telling you how many hours your baby needs to sleep overnight. And for naps, we don't disregard them, your baby, when we set them up with the right conditions for sleep, their body and brain will take the sleep. It needs to go through different sleep cycles to learn, grow, and thrive, and it can't come from an outside source. It's this huge, huge variation. So that's hard because it's huge. And some babies, the sleep tons in every 24 hours and other babies relatively sleep very little in 24 hours. And the amount of care and demands on parents is also going to vary quite a bit. So I think a lot of the normal features of infant sleep are labeled as problems. Dr. Sarah (00:09:17): Interesting. Yes. Dr. Greer (00:09:18): Which is really hard for parents because then they're like, oh my gosh, my baby has all these problems. And actually a lot of them are normal. So you firstly, night waking, biggest one, the biggest one, babies have shorter sleep cycles than us as adults. Their sleep cycles are 45 to 60 minutes. Ours as adults are about 90 minutes. And so every time anybody sleeps after every sleep cycle, we briefly go into a very light sleep or almost a waking state. As adults, we don't remember. But babies, every time they go through a sleep cycle is an opportunity for them to do a check from head to toe, am I hungry, thirsty, uncomfortable, lonely, all the things. And they can have needs at night. They can need a feed, some water or milk, hydration, cuddling, closeness, and to know they're safe, right? They're always looking out, am I safe? Is somebody here for me? So the night waking actually is very normal. In babies, it can be an issue. If it's extremely frequent, then there's likely an underlying source of that. There's a lot of medical issues that could be underlying it. But if a baby is waking every few hours in the first year and then after that they can sleep a bit longer, that is normal and expected actually for many babies. And that's a huge problem for labeled as a big problem. Dr. Sarah (00:11:08): And it could feel like a problem. There's two folds, there's the actual real problem that it creates, which is parent sleep deprivation. But then there's the other sort of societal and maybe perhaps in projected quote problem that maybe we have to reframe, which is there's something wrong with my child's sleep or there's something wrong with their ability to develop into a good sleeper because of these wakings. And that I think is the false interpretation. I do think parent sleep deprivation is a legitimate problem. It just may not be one that is easily solved for in this period of time. Dr. Greer (00:11:49): For sure. And I think I work with so many families, I think we can always a place where parents are tired because parents with and without sleep training are tired. Every parent is tired but not sleep deprived. There's a lot of ways we can set up sleep environments and set up support. Hopefully there's two parents, if there's one parent bringing in other people, it's not, again, not a thing meant to be done by one or two people. Dr. Sarah (00:12:17): And unfortunately from a species, it's not meant to be done by one or two people. But in our society, there are systems that have been set up that may be forcing people to do this all by themselves. Even. I mean, in an ideal situation, you've got at least two, but very many people have to do this by themselves, even if they have a partner, which we could talk about too. Dr. Greer (00:12:41): 100%. Many, many, many people. A hundred percent. Yeah. So yeah, the night waking is a normal feature of infant sleep. Night waking happens with and without sleep training. Most studies on sleep training are parent report. And so after a sleep training protocol, parents report that baby sleep is better because the baby is not signaling for them anymore at nighttime. But when we look at newer studies, there's three in particular I looked at this morning to refresh myself. We are videoing babies and actually observing them and after sleep training, their night waking doesn't change. They're still waking up the same amount. Two of the studies showed that there's about 15 to 20 minutes extra sleep in total when babies are sleep trained versus not sleep trained. But then generally it's not significantly increasing the amount they're sleeping and is not changing these night wakings. It is a feature of their sleep that remains no matter what. So if people are motivated to sleep, train for that reason, oh my baby, I have to do it to shape their sleep, I have to change how they sleep with this. That is actually not happening through sleep training. Dr. Sarah (00:14:06): Very interesting and very important because I think, again, people have different reasons for choosing to do this, but many of them are, like you said, it's informed choice and parents are not making an informed choice if the reason they're doing something is based on misinformation. So if you are believing and being told to believe and lots of sources are communicating to you, sleep training lengthens the amount of time babies sleep significantly, what we're finding is that is not in fact true 15 minutes perhaps, but in the grand scheme of things, that is not changing the amount of time they're sleeping. It's changing what? Dr. Greer (00:14:49): It's changing their behavior to signal when they wake. Dr. Sarah (00:14:56): Okay. Can you talk a little bit about the function…

Full show notes at the publisher

Q&A: Is there something I can do to strengthen my child's relationship with my ex? Aug 03, 2023

Show notes

>> Do you need support coparenting your child with your ex? Reach out to Upshur Bren Psychology Group to schedule a free consultation call to learn more about the individualized treatment options.

Beyond the Sessions is answering YOUR parenting questions! In this episode, Dr. Rebecca Hershberg, Dr. Emily Upshur, and I talk about...

3:03 - The quality of the attachment in every relationship is different. Kids can have a secure attachment bond to you and a more insecure relationship with someone else and still internalize the positive benefits of secure attachment.

6:16 - Handling parenting with a partner or an ex who has a parenting style that is misaligned from your own.

9:25 - Assessing the varying degrees of animosity or amicability in deciphering how to communicate with an ex partner about your child's feelings.

9:49 - Bringing in a therapist can be helpful to have information coming from an objective party and can lead to less of an emotional response.

14:45 - How to be the safe place for your child when they are experiencing difficulty.

✨We want to hear from you! Go to https://drsarahbren.com/question to send us a question or a topic you want to hear us answer on Securely Attached - Beyond the Sessions! ✨

Breaking the silence: A comprehensive breakdown of selective mutism with Dr. Carmen Tumialan Lynas Aug 01, 2023

Show notes

How do you know whether your child has selective mutism or is just shy in certain situations?

Joining me today to discuss selective mutism—an anxiety disorder that is characterized by the inability or refusal to speak in certain situations, despite being capable of speech in other settings—is Dr. Carmen Tumialan Lynas. Dr. Tumialan Lynas is a clinical psychologist and anxiety specialist and the founder of Advanced Therapeutic Solutions.

Recognizing the symptoms of selective mutism (SM) is crucial in order to provide appropriate support. If you think your child may have SM, you won't want to miss this episode that covers what to look out for and how to help children so they can overcome their communication challenges and thrive!

I want to hear from you! Send me a topic you want me to cover or a question you want answered on the show!

✨ DM me on Instagram at @securelyattachedpodcast or @drsarahbren

✨ Send an email to sarah@drsarahbren.com

✨ And check out drsarahbren.com for more parenting resources

Q&A: How can I keep my child from being spoiled? Jul 27, 2023

Show notes

Beyond the Sessions is answering YOUR parenting questions! In this episode, Dr. Rebecca Hershberg, Dr. Emily Upshur, and I talk about...

3:30 - The importance of mindfulness and pausing long enough to notice and express when we are grateful.

6:21 - Setting realistic expectations - you can be teaching gratitude and not have grateful kids all the time, and that's okay.

7:50 - The difference between being spoiled or entitled and having desires.

12:26 - How to handle our own triggers when we feel like our child is being spoiled.

14:00 - What the availability bias is and how it impacts our kids.

20:45 - Proactive responsibilities are opportunities to teach appreciation, value, and perspective.

25:00 - Understanding privilege.

✨We want to hear from you! Go to https://drsarahbren.com/question to send us a question or a topic you want to hear us answer on Securely Attached - Beyond the Sessions! ✨

How nurturing shapes our child's brain and sets them up for lifelong mental health with Dr. Greer Kirshenbaum Jul 25, 2023

Show notes

How does the way we treat our children affect the makeup of their brains? And how can we use this knowledge to raise children in a style that optimizes their physical, emotional, and mental health?

That is precisely what Dr. Greer Kirshenbaum shares in her new book, The Nurture Revolution.

From exploring the neuroscience of nurturing to understanding how early caregiving experiences influence our relationships as adults, Dr. Kirshenbaum offers profound insights that can shape how we think about respectful parenting with children of any age.

I want to hear from you! Send me a topic you want me to cover or a question you want answered on the show!

✨ DM me on Instagram at @securelyattachedpodcast or @drsarahbren

✨ Send an email to sarah@drsarahbren.com

✨ And check out drsarahbren.com for more parenting resources

Q&A: Is it okay to let my daughter play with Barbies? Jul 20, 2023

Show notes

Beyond the Sessions is answering YOUR parenting questions! In this episode, Dr. Rebecca Hershberg, Dr. Emily Upshur, and I talk about...

2:07 - Does playing with Barbies cause children to have an unrealistic body image?

8:01 - Do millennials carry a stigma around Barbies that is not accurate to the way they are being portrayed now?

8:58 - Is it beneficial to ban any toys, or is it better to use these toys as a conversation starter?

10:45 - How can you initiate a conversation with your child that can negate some of the negative effects of playing with thin dolls, unrealistic ideas of gender norms, and stereotypes.

18:40 - What other factors regarding self-esteem and body image are more important for parents to keep in mind rather than if they should or shouldn't let their child play with Barbies.

✨We want to hear from you! Go to https://drsarahbren.com/question to send us a question or a topic you want to hear us answer on Securely Attached - Beyond the Sessions! ✨

Transform mealtimes: Expert tips for raising healthy eaters with Amelia Sherry Jul 18, 2023

Show notes

When it comes to healthy eating habits, it's essential to focus on balance and trust rather than strict rules or restrictions - which for many of us, is the exact opposite of the way we were raised.

Amelia Sherry, registered dietitian/nutritionist and the author of Diet-Proof Your Daughter, is joining me today to talk about ways parents can make this mindset shift in order to support and nurture their child's healthy relationship to food.

Throughout today's episode, we'll explore the role parents play in shaping a child's body image and feelings toward food, and offer you some practical tips for fostering healthy eating habits and reducing mealtime power struggles with your own children.

I want to hear from you! Send me a topic you want me to cover or a question you want answered on the show!

✨ DM me on Instagram at @securelyattachedpodcast or @drsarahbren

✨ Send an email to sarah@drsarahbren.com

✨ And check out drsarahbren.com for more parenting resources

Q&A: Can you get stuck in a state of fight-or-flight? Jul 13, 2023

Show notes

Beyond the Sessions is answering YOUR parenting questions! In this episode, Dr. Rebecca Hershberg, Dr. Emily Upshur, and I talk about...

1:11 - What actually is the proper scientific definition of fight-or-flight?

3:30 - What is the difference between being mad and being in fight-or-flight?

6:13 - The first step: Simple physiological interventions you can take to decrease your stress levels.

12:58 - The power of slowing down.

16:35 - Reflecting on why you are being triggered so you can zoom out and shift some of the patterns.

22:37 - Even if you do lose your temper, you can always go back and repair. (Go to drsarahbren.com/lost-my-temper for a workbook that teaches you exactly how to reconnect, repair & rebuild trust after you lose your cool.)

✨We want to hear from you! Go to https://drsarahbren.com/question to send us a question or a topic you want to hear us answer on Securely Attached - Beyond the Sessions! ✨

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