Religion on the Mind

Latest Episodes:

Why Are Some Christians So Certain? Q&A w/Kristen (#262) May 20, 2024

Show notes

You know her and love her â€” my friend and recurring guest Kristen Tideman joined me this week for another listener-powered Q&A session!

We recommended voices outside Christianity who provide thoughtful commentary on religion and culture, considered why some Christians seem to have a gentle certainty in their faith while others wrestle with doubt, recommended resources for those interested in psychology but not necessarily at a graduate school level, and wrapped with our Q&A tradition, “podcasts someone else should start.”

I always look forward to bringing Kristen back for these episodes, so please continue to send in your questions and feedback!

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/ZWEDLrjwiAA

Kristen & Sarey’s Website:

https://www.tidycocreative.com/

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

“The Spiral Staircase: My Climb Out of Darkness” Book by Karen Armstrong:

https://www.amazon.com/Spiral-Staircase-Climb-Out-Darkness/dp/0385721277

“A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam”:

https://www.amazon.com/History-God-000-Year-Judaism-Christianity/dp/0345384563

“Nonzero: The Logic of Human Destiny” Book by Robert Wright:

https://www.amazon.com/Nonzero-Robert-Wright-audiobook/dp/B003VXOYU0/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.W5VbJEd_C7ARelFjPSPdn3yzWFEz_e8NNfRIuUQAVYQiGo7URK4okOWLCcU-5qKRkbZWePmrNEF5UMu2Bsnz0zVH2G-PDpc_rM3QD3GaET1B7YIFlklFaTi9a-8eJlmCGiwutLTJ5mzRIKor8tBFjjIl4mgdq9ixog65RS29IuP6zMeEftqYoSnZP90f73gmgICZuXNiRBhMwUxuvgP76n0gRWYNnZ8v5a3Rb0BlR7I.lzOXxi7UQfAmzXEGnSvr1HwJpM3ZqgRzjKOlcv4A9dI&dib_tag=se&hvadid=695122461575&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9060341&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=9167534309706362485&hvtargid=kwd-389232807553&hydadcr=3376_13743879&keywords=nonzero+book&qid=1716136609&sr=8-1

Ezra Klein Show Episode with George Saunders:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-george-saunders.html

“The Undoing Project: A Friendship That Changed Our Minds” Book by Michael Lewis:

https://www.amazon.com/The-Undoing-Project-Michael-Lewis-audiobook/dp/B01KBM82M4/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.cvym2lRDIPNob6LgRNDHPOZobL47bYhXCus_FyflE7PaLtByydXWtl_51cpuc2ZxMkfrpUp-o6hKcSIUSzkhknTjMdXCue97elz4LG7AvzJE6OzgVNhyksDwdbqAHnyKUGSJurbTFXxpO5dYRVt9zYkObJ4dX6m3od1-udbHCQKuj0meg8W0G2_KIsoh8nL3_2dKfbIpK9IM6iT-HVNoUcRiH8XiWFaxn3IwyB8MjH0.4vPkZtU2aPl5IqVdSPK_-_EKr3NNIbwGQh97XlkI5NE&dib_tag=se&hvadid=409935120645&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9060341&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8779447192951884940&hvtargid=kwd-409536905666&hydadcr=22597_11320627&keywords=%27the+undoing+project%27+by+michael+lewis&qid=1716136308&sr=8-1

“Thinking Fast and Slow” Book by Daniel Kahneman:

https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-and-Slow-audiobook/dp/B005Z9GAJG/ref=sr_1_1?crid=W7JLD65U1X9F&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.J9E3G6r9vjT1ToBWoQvd_jo79NsGeWfMZRwA2IF1bWJJecsgTr9qjHdmX1IlwlqR1EG-cf0ADeQL21OlMnbOLgifLEj4VZDGqBWLpB_c7vGXt0QZa6bMPAg8Za2CbpRwWjTQt0HE4RDRKSgN2snnYa3A8BfMmIludhAdWWNwsnCp6ta6bw8UEcWSv40VpjFqBKBEnqkIouZAVHf-HVvQ6-IooQcNBDgIcj5APXDkih0.xp5f73ny4T0lA9HxrBZfR5AkTsDReliAZ7g4fWtc_YQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=thinking+fast+and+slow&qid=1716136287&sprefix=thinking+fast+%2Caps%2C128&sr=8-1

Freakonomics Show “No Stupid Questions”:

https://freakonomics.com/series/nsq/

Radio Lab’s Podcast “The Queen of Dying”:

https://radiolab.org/podcast/queen-dying

___________________________________________

Get Tickets for Theology Beer Camp 2024

Use Code ReturnofYHP for $50 off your ticket!

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com

YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98

Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html

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Artwork by sprungle.co/

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We Watched The Chosen So You Don't Have To: Season 1, Episode 1 (#261) May 16, 2024

Show notes

How many times has someone told you that you have to watch The Chosen, the smash hit TV series depicting the life of Jesus?

My buddy Jeff Martin and I break down season 1 episode 1, reacting to all manner of interesting details from my own liberal Christian therapist perspective and Jeff’s more moderate Evangelical lens.

We get into psychology, Biblical studies, theology, history, and even some parenting territory.

I’m very curious how much appetite there is for continuing with episodes like this, so please check it out and let me know what you think!

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/6091jNfI8mc

___________________________________________

Get Tickets for Theology Beer Camp 2024

Use Code ReturnofYHP for $50 off your ticket!

___________________________________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com

YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98

Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html

Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/

Artwork by sprungle.co/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What Does Subtle Religious Trauma Look Like? (#260) May 13, 2024

Show notes

My guest this week is Lauren Auer, a licensed counselor specializing in religious trauma. She grew up in the evangelical world and initially opened her practice with a faith-based approach (hence the name Steadfast Counseling) but found herself questioning her own beliefs as she witnessed concerning changes in her church community and started receiving a lot of religious trauma cases in her practice, despite not explicitly advertising this specialty.

We discussed the overt and more subtle forms of religious trauma (abuse is the thing that happens to you, while trauma is what happens inside you). many people are "the frog in the pot" from a young age, accustomed to certain behaviors and beliefs within their religious communities. This normalization can make it difficult to recognize when something is amiss or causing harm. Fear of questioning or deviating from the prescribed path often keeps individuals trapped in a state of confusion and self-doubt.

While Lauren is currently only able to see clients in Illinois, there are resources available, such as the Reclamation Collective directory, a geographically organized list of therapists who self-identify as having expertise in working with religious trauma.

My own Spiritual Harm and Abuse Scale -- a free-to-use clinical screener for therapists -- and a condensed research handout on spiritual abuse, are both freely available on dankochwords.com

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/rnZnu1VnGvo

Lauren's Website:

https://steadfastcounseling.com/

Follow Lauren on Instagram -- @steadfastcounseling

Find Clinicians Who Deal with Religious Trauma:

reclamationcollective.com

____________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com

YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98

Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html

Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/

Artwork by sprungle.co/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

GGCH: Post-Christian Churches, the New Sober, and Debriefing the Emerged Podcast (#259) May 09, 2024

Show notes

After kicking things off with our usual game of "Bar, Bank, Church or Dispensary?” and “Ways we are becoming our dads” segments, we talked about Josh and Tony's work on the recently concluded Emerged podcast, an ambitious 10-episode series examining the Emerging Church movement.

We debated the semantics and cultural implications of the "California sober" lifestyle and whether it really counts as “sober,” getting into the healthcare differences between so-called “abstinence” and “harm reduction” approaches to substance use.

Tony told us about his speaking engagements at two "post-Christian spiritual communities" in Grand Rapids, Michigan. To close out, we had a spirited dialogue sparked by Josh's experience caring for his four-year-old nephew for a day, which included painting their nails in matching rainbow colors.

Next month, I'll be coming in hot with some reasons I am feeling hopeful about the future of mainline liberal Protestantism, which Tony will do his best to abuse me of! But that’s the fun of these GGCH episode, right?

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/DEDU2b-cFZo

Tony's Website:

https://reverendhunter.com/

____________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com

YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98

Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html

Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/

Artwork by sprungle.co/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Christian Dating Scene is BLEAK (#258) May 06, 2024

Show notes

This week, I sat down with Katelyn Beaty and Roxanne Stone, the fantastic hosts of the Saved by the City podcast. I asked them for their take on the "masculinity crisis" some have described in our cultural moment. From their experiences dating in New York City to their observations about the dearth of male role models in many kids' lives, they painted a picture of the loneliness, frustration and loss of purpose afflicting a lot of guys these days.

Many traditionally male-coded traits and roles have been culturally devalued in recent decades in a way that has left a lot of men feeling adrift. Katelyn made the point that while working for gender parity in leadership is important, hyper-focusing on metrics like representation in the Fortune 500 C-suites overlooks a lot of other elements of human flourishing. Roxanne noted that we still have not had a society-wide conversation about redefining success and valorizing things like teaching, caretaking, and community-building that have historically been relegated to the feminine sphere.

Katelyn and Roxanne were emphatic that women have a huge stake in helping stem this crisis, even if their first instinct may be an exasperated "Haven't men had their day in the sun long enough?" As Katelyn put it, men's issues are human issues, and in the long run, the genders rise and fall together. Lonely, angry, purposeless men are more likely to lash out in anti-social ways that endanger everyone.

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/GPGGTdTEhYw

Previous Episode "Christianity Today Staffers Katelyn Beaty and Roxanne Stone":

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-have-permission/id1448000113?i=1000556178804

____________________________________

https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/

YHP use code "RETURNOFYHP" for $25 off your ticket!

____________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com

YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98

Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html

Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/

Artwork by sprungle.co/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How Can Deconstructing Parents Talk About God? (#257) Apr 29, 2024

Show notes

The spiritual education of children can be daunting, especially when parents have more questions about God than answers. Does this necessarily lead to a dead end, or are there tools available when we have very little “bedrock” on which to stand?

Meredith Anne Miller feels that mainstream Christian children's education focuses too heavily on making kids obedient, rather than inviting exploration. Meredith advocates for an approach centered on wonder, curiosity, and relationship -- sharing about God's character and love while making ample space for kids' questions, doubts, and personal journeys.

We also respond to a listener question about specific issues with the Lord’s Prayer as a standard family/bedtime option.

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/19GZZaSYZwU

Meredith’s Substack:

https://meredithannemiller.substack.com/

Other YHP Episodes around Raising Kids:

#174 Meredith Miller - “Helping Kids Know God in Healthy Ways”:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-have-permission/id1448000113?i=1000594695988

#166 Bekah McNeil - “Love & Perfectionism in Raising Kids”:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-have-permission/id1448000113?i=1000582889496

____________________________________

https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/

YHP use code "RETURNOFYHP" for $25 off your ticket!

____________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com

YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98

Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html

Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/

Artwork by sprungle.co/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How to Write a Post-Evangelical Novel (#256) Apr 25, 2024

Show notes

I was joined by editor, podcaster, and novelist Jason Kirk to discuss how he put his Evangelical upbringing — barely distinguishable from my own — into his recent novel Hell Is A World Without You. We also discussed the power of storytelling to capture the overlap of complex ideas, fear of Hell, queer affirmation, Dune, and more.

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/69-5jPEmrBE

Jason’s Book “ Hell Is a World Without You”: https://www.amazon.com/Hell-World-Without-Jason-Kirk/dp/1735492647

https://www.jasonkirk.fyi/p/novel

“Pretty Good Vibrations” Episode mentioned - Further Seems Forever Deep Dive:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pretty-good-vibrations/id1652779250?i=1000651894374

___________________

https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/

YHP use code "RETURNOFYHP" for $25 off your ticket!

____________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com

YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98

Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html

Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/

Artwork by sprungle.co/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I Don’t Like Worship Music, But It Works (#255) Apr 22, 2024

Show notes

On this week’s episode, I spoke with Elias Dummer, a musician, marketer, and former singer-songwriter of the Canadian Christian rock band The City Harmonic. We talked about the power and potential of contemporary worship music, exploring its role as a "spiritual technology" and its ability to unite people across various divisions -- class, race, theology, etc. And yes, in case you are wondering, I had to set aside my own personal distaste for Contemporary Christian Music and worship music, but I was happy to do so, all in the name of science, of course!

Elias shared his unique background, coming from an ecumenical, missional context rather than a typical megachurch setting. I liked how this challenged common assumptions about contemporary worship music and its association with private piety and white Evangelical tribalism.

We delved into the research Elias and others are doing about worship music, touching on concepts like Emile Durkheim’s collective effervescence and the ability of music to manipulate emotions. Acknowledging the power that worship leaders hold can help them use this influence responsibly. We agreed that being transparent about the mechanisms at play can help protect people from potential harm and abuse.

Dan’s old band “Pacific Gold”:

https://open.spotify.com/artist/5JiCHmso7KrIrNdhjRuElw?si=DOHu-J1wTyeQ6Rh7ET565g

Elias’s Band “The City Harmonic” on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/artist/6qAVoMGl7omcu0RhX1B3fm?si=XTVkEntjSyuMSDLM1zjNlw

The City Harmonic’s “Manifesto” on Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/track/5PsxiztPCYZUcEkXmYSx8Q?si=f921612d70464c32

Elias’ IG @eliasdummer

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/7D-lyxdwDQs

____________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com

YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98

Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html

Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/

Artwork by sprungle.co/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A New Queer-Affirming Book & Its Fallout (with The New Evangelicals) (#254) Apr 18, 2024

Show notes

In this conversation, Tim Whitaker of The New Evangelicals joins Dan for a dual-feed special episode to discuss the upcoming book by Richard B. Hays, a respected New Testament scholar (Duke), and his son Christopher (Fuller), titled 'The Widening of God's Mercy: A Thoroughly Biblical Account of LGBTQ Affirmation in the Church.' They explore the potential impact of the book and the various reactions it has received. They also discuss the importance of acknowledging the harm caused by previous non-affirming positions and the need for an apology. They consider the strategic implications of the book and its potential to shift the conversation in white Evangelical spaces. They highlight the importance of listening to the voices of queer Christian scholars and the potential for the book to provide validation and support for those navigating their faith and sexuality. Also, they explore the idea of holding contradictory views and the importance of integration and growth, including a little bit of therapy-adjacent ideas about Tim and his dad.

https://www.thenewevangelicals.com/

**Watch this episode on YouTube**

https://youtu.be/bEdcKuNfHg8

Richard Hays’ Book “The Widening of God’s Mercy”:

https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300273427/the-widening-of-gods-mercy/

____________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/

Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch

Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/

Edited by Josh Gilbert (joshgilbertmedia.com -- he is accepting more work!)

Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch

Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com

YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98

Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html

Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/

Artwork by sprungle.co/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Still Christian & Way Humble About It! (#253) Apr 15, 2024

Show notes

Dan spoke with friend and frequent guest Sarey Martin Concepcion about the intersection of intellectual humility and our Christian faith journeys, attempting to tie this together with his recent set of “Still Christian” episodes. They discussed how Sarey was raised in a fundamentalist evangelical strain of Christianity that valued certainty and correct doctrinal beliefs above all else. This made it challenging to embrace intellectual humility -- acknowledging what one can and cannot be confident about.

While appreciating the research around intellectual humility can create some real tensions within Christianity, it also provides a foundation for extending grace to ourselves and others amid disagreement and uncertainty.

https://www.tidycocreative.com/

Other Intellectual Humility Episodes:

Elizabeth Hall: Doubt, Intellectual Humility & Uncertainty Tolerance (#146)

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-have-permission/id1448000113?i=1000553166878

Joshua Hook: Intellectual Humility (#184)

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-have-permission/id1448000113?i=1000608179436

Daryl van Tongeren: You Are Not Your Beliefs (#195)

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-have-permission/id1448000113?i=1000618349369

Stephen Sandage: What Does a Healthy Spiritual Leader Even Look Like? (#209)

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-have-permission/id1448000113?i=1000627460605

____________________

Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/