Stay ConnectedAnyone paying attention can tell you that our criminal legal system is perpetuating cruelty and harm, but the complexity of the legal world overwhelms most people simply trying to get through another day.
Public Defenseless explores the rot in the justice system and what we can do about it. Join host, Hunter Parnell, as he interviews top defense attorneys and criminal justice stakeholders from across the country as they pull apart the convoluted web of our criminal justice system.
Today, Hunter is joined by Taylor Herbert, a Public Defender in Lan County Oregon to discuss civil commitment. As is often talked about on the show, the divide between the civil and criminal legal system is far smaller than many are willing to admit. Civil commitment is the process by which a person can be confined in a mental health facility against their will. Unlike a criminal process, which does not allow for you to be deprived of liberty unless you've been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, civil commitment allows for a deprivation of liberty after only reaching clear and convincing evidentiary standard. Why is this an issue? Why do we allow? What are the failings of civil commitment in Oregon? All that and more on this episode!
Guests:
Taylor Herbert, Staff Attorney, Mental Health Division, Public Defender Services of Lane County, Oregon
Resources:
ORS 426-427
https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/ors/ors426.html
Email Taylor
therbert@lanepds.org
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Today, Hunter is joined once again by Public Interest lawyer Stephen Hanlon. This time, Hunter and Stephen are breaking down the five year plan that he hopes will fix Public Defense in Oregon. While it is surely an ambitious plan, this plan gives urges public defenders to do all that they can to force the powers that be to take the crisis seriously: case withdrawals.
Guests:
Stephen Hanlon, Public Interest Lawyer
Resources:
Oregon Report 5 Year Plan
https://www.opb.org/article/2024/03/21/oregon-public-defense-report-more-attorneys/
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Today, Hunter is once again joined by Lee Wachocki, a Public Defender and union leader in Portland, Oregon. As the Public Defender crisis continues in the state, this week is about figuring out how the state is responding. At the front line level, Lee reveals that little has functionally changed at his level to demonstrate the state is close to solving the problem. In fact, with Oregon recriminalizing drug possession, the state appears primed to super charge the issue.
Guests:
Lee Wachocki, Public Defender, Multnomah County
Resources:
Multnomah County DA Debate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wehZ548c-OY
DA Schmidt Endorsing Recriminalization
Mike Schmidt Endorses Proposal to Recriminalize Hard Drugs (wweek.com)
Bad Reporting on Public Defender Caseload
Impacts of Recriminalization
https://www.axios.com/local/portland/2024/03/19/public-defender-crisis-recriminalization-oregon
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Today, Hunter is joined Professor Robin Bernstein to discuss her newest book, Freeman's Challenge: The Murder that Shook America's Original Prison for Profit. When many of us think of the for-profit prisons, we think of the post slavery south at places like Parchman. However, that is not where the story started. Today, Robin joins the show to discuss Auburn State Prison and what we can learn from the history of for profit prisons.
Guests:
Robin Bernstein, Dillon Professor of American History and Professor of African and African American Studies and of Studies of Women, Gender, & Sexuality, Harvard University
Resources:
Order the Book Here
https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/F/bo213968137.html
Contact Hunter Parnell:
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Today, Hunter is joined by the powerful Dorsey Nunn. At 19, Dorsey was given a life sentence. Over the next 11 years, Dorsey would be exposed to violence, abuse, and the political education that would awaken in him a lifelong desire to fight our prison system. Today, Hunter talks with Dorsey about his new book, What Kind of Bird Can't Fly to discuss his lifetime of organizing for the rights of the current and formerly incarcerated.
Guests:
Dorsey Nunn, Executive Director Legal Services for Prisoners with Children, Co-Founder All of Us or None, Co-Founder Formerly Incarcerated Convicted People and Family Movement
Resources:
Order the Book Here
https://www.amazon.com/What-Kind-Bird-Cant-Fly/dp/1597146323
Legal Services for Prisoners with Children
https://prisonerswithchildren.org/staff-and-board/
All of Us or None
https://prisonerswithchildren.org/about-aouon/
Contact Hunter Parnell:
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Today, Hunter is joined once again by Leah Nelson of Alabama Appleseed. This time, they are joined by Callie Greer, a Community Navigator at Appleseed, to discuss Appleseed's Afterward. This powerful report sought out to hear from victims and survivors of violence. As is often said on the show, the criminal legal system does a poor job of providing for the needs of all survivors of violence. In fact, the system often perpetuates the harm of those who need help following the tragic events in their life. By going to communities across Alabama, Appleseed hoped to capture the voice of so many people who want need more than just a criminal punishment to be made whole.
Guests:
Leah Nelson, Research Director, Alabama Appleseed
Callie Greer, Community Navigator, Alabama Appleseed
Resources:
Read Afterward Here
https://alabamaappleseed.org/afterward/
Alabama Appleseed
Contact Hunter Parnell:
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Today, Hunter is once again joined by Brett Schandelson, the Director of the Montana Office of the State Public Defender. Last time he was one, we discussed his efforts to make Public Defense policy in Montana driven by data. Today, we discuss how those efforts have drastically turned the state system around. Specifically, Brett details how doing a better job of tracking cases and sticking to a workload standard has reduced turnover and helped retain Public Defenders throughout the state.
Guests:
Brett Schandelson, Director, Montana Office of the State Public Defender
Resources:
Office of the State Public Defender
https://publicdefender.mt.gov/
Agenda-DIBC-12-13-2023.pdf (mt.gov) 61080-OPD-QFR-Dec2023.pdf (mt.gov) Quick video on the OPD Quarterly Update (at meeting start)
Brett's presentation 12/13/23 IBC OPD Section
Materials https://leg.mt.gov/content/Publications/fiscal/2025-Biennium/Section-D/Interim/OPD-Narrative-Response.pdf https://leg.mt.gov/content/Publications/fiscal/2025-Biennium/Section-D/Interim/OPD-Fees-Assessed-and-Paid.pdf
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Today, Hunter sat down with Dr. Shameka Stewart, a juvenile forensic speech language pathologist. While speech language pathologists have long been around, Dr. Stewart is the first person to take the field and apply it to juvenile forensics. The promise of the field was on display as she served as an expert witness for the defense team during the trial of Nikolas Cruz. For those in the criminal defense community, this under utilized forensic science could prove to be one of the most important pieces of evidence against guilt or during mitigation.
Guests:
Dr. Shameka Stewart, Juvenile Forensic Speech Language Pathologist
Resources:
Contact Dr. Stewart
https://www.juvforensicslp.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-stewart-032b5a96
https://www.instagram.com/drjuvenile_forensicslp/
https://twitter.com/drsstanford1
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Today, Hunter is once again joined by former NACDL President, Martin Sabelli. This time, Hunte and Martin are discussing a memo he put out while President about the Ahmaud Arbery murder trial. In that trial, Martin felt that the defense counsel improperly used racism as a tactic in their defense. Martin put out the memo because he felt that those in the criminal defense community, those who fight against systems of racism aught not use the tools of the very system that actively incarcerates so many of their clients. As such, today's episode is all about figuring out where the line is between individual advocacy and fighting systems of oppression.
Guests:
Martín Sabelli, Former President, National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers
Resources:
Link to the Memo
Follow Martin on Twitter
https://twitter.com/martin_sabelli?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Contact Hunter Parnell:
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Last summer, Hunter spoke with Central Florida criminal defense attorney Andrew Darling to discuss Governor DeSantis removing State Attorney Monique Worrell from office. At the time, Andrew and Hunter expressed their concerns that the primary reason for the removal was due to Worrell's willingness to prosecute cops. Today, Andrew is back to share how those fears have come to reality. In 2020, Andrew's client was shot by a cop. Originally, Worrell pursued the case, but with her gone, it took the new State Attorney just under 9 months to drop the case, but for a reason that you have to hear to believe.
Guests:
Andrew Darling, Criminal Defense Attorney, Central Florida
Resources:
Gov DeSantis' Executive Order Removing State Attorney Monique Worrell
Twitter Thread Explaining the Falsities in Gov DeSantis' Claims
https://twitter.com/LutherEvers/status/1689672379776073728
Warren v. DeSantis
https://casetext.com/case/warren-v-desantis-1
Follow Andrew on
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MrDarling4
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mrdarling4/
Darling Law: https://darlinglaw.com/
Orange County Court of Clerks 2023CF003924-A-O
https://www.myorangeclerk.com/
Indictment of Orange County Deputy Bruce Stolk
Prosecution Memo
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1CV_0RjsmVlqpdEvaZd8gNIJR8i0fhrVJ?usp=sharing
Contact Hunter Parnell:
Publicdefenseless@gmail.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
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