Product Thinking

Latest Episodes:

Episode 216: Getting OKRs Right: Planning with Impact at OLX with Hugo Froes Mar 26, 2025

Show notes

Join Melissa Perri in an insightful episode of the Product Thinking Podcast featuring Hugo Froes, Head of Operations at OLX. In this episode, Hugo shares his remarkable journey from UX and service design to leading product operations, a transition that highlights the importance of bridging design with business needs.This conversation dives into how Hugo has effectively shaped product operations at OLX, focusing on process optimization, reducing friction, and empowering teams to deliver true value. Hugo’s approach showcases how strategic product operations can drive innovation and efficiency within organizations.Ready to explore how product operations can transform your organization? Listen to the full episode and gain practical insights from Hugo's experiences!

You’ll hear us talk about:

00:25:08 - Making OKRs Work Across the Organization

Hugo discusses the challenges and solutions for standardizing OKR frameworks to ensure consistent and measurable outcomes while allowing flexibility for team-specific practices.

00:30:41 - The Product Ops Mix

Hugo explains the multi-faceted approach of OLX's product operations team, focusing on improving efficiency, streamlining processes, and supporting organizational growth through strategic tooling.

00:39:03 - Measuring Value in Product Management

Hugo and Melissa explore the importance of continuously validating product value against business outcomes, emphasizing learning over feature delivery.

Episode resources:

Hugo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hugofroes/
Thoughts Unravelled: https://thoughtsunravelled.substack.com/
Try Liveblocks: https://liveblocks.io/

Timestamps:

00:00 Coming Up

01:01 Intro

05:37 From UX to Product Ops: Hugo’s Journey

09:17 Shift to Product Thinking

16:33 Starting Product Ops at OLX

21:23 Rethinking OKRs for Real Teams

25:08 Making OKRs Work Across the Org

30:41 The Product Ops Mix

35:48 The Real Limits of AI

43:07 What’s Next for Product Ops

Episode 215: Transforming Enterprise Sales: The Gong Story with Eilon Reshef Mar 19, 2025

Show notes

In this episode, Eilon Reshef, co-founder and Chief Product Officer of Gong, joins Melissa Perri to discuss the transformative power of AI-driven technology in sales and product management.As Gong revolutionizes the sales industry, Eilon shares insights into building tools that empower salespeople and help them succeed. He dives into the challenges of scaling Gong to $100 million in ARR and the crucial role of focusing on end-user value.

Eilon delves into how Gong captures and analyzes sales conversations to help teams close deals faster and increase revenue. He also reveals the unique organizational structure at Gong and the importance of design partners in their product development process.

Want to discover how to harness AI to improve your sales processes and drive significant growth? Tune in to gain actionable insights from Eilon’s experience at Gong.

You’ll hear us talk about:

10:31 - Prioritizing Seller-Centric Value

Eilon discusses the importance of emphasizing value for the end user, the salespeople, rather than just delivering organizational value. This approach has been critical to Gong’s success, helping build a product that sales teams love and rely on.

13:50 - Implementing a Customer-Centric Structure

Learn about Gong's unique pod structure, where product managers work closely with numerous design partners to receive continuous feedback and refine the product. This approach ensures that customer needs are always at the forefront.

26:54 - Embracing AI in Product Management

Eilon provides advice for product managers on how to integrate AI into their work. He emphasizes the need to practice and understand AI capabilities to effectively incorporate them into product offerings.

Episode resources:

Eilon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eilonreshef/
More about Gong: https://www.gong.io/
Work at Gong: https://www.gong.io/careers/
Liveblocks: https://liveblocks.io/

Timestamps:

00:00 Coming Up

00:47 Intro

02:51 Dear Melissa

06:34 Eilon’s Intro & Gong's Founding Story

10:31 Empowering Sales & Key Lessons

22:08 Vision for AI & Its Impact on Sales

31:41 Working with Design Partners & Beta Testing

42:03 Reflections on Product Leadership

Episode 214: From Apple to FinTech: Balancing Automation & Customer Trust with David Myszewski Mar 12, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, Melissa Perri sits down with David Myszewski, VP of Product at Wealthfront. David shares his transition from working on the groundbreaking iPhone at Apple to leading product innovation in the fintech space. He dives into how Wealthfront's approach to fintech has been shaped by lessons learned at Apple, particularly the power of small, talented teams and high standards.

David discusses Wealthfront’s strategy of integrating consumer research and customer support into product development, emphasizing the importance of understanding customer needs through both qualitative and quantitative data. He also highlights the significance of building a technology infrastructure that supports innovative financial products and services tailored to evolving market needs.

Tune in to explore how Wealthfront is redefining fintech with a focus on reducing client costs, enhancing tax efficiency, and fostering better financial behaviors through technology-driven solutions. Want to learn how to leverage tech for financial innovation? Listen to the full conversation with David Myszewski.

You'll hear us talk about:

10:33 - The Role of Consumer Technology Experience in Fintech

David explains why consumer technology skills are more valuable than financial knowledge in fintech. He shares how Wealthfront prioritizes creating excellent user experiences over specific domain expertise.

19:28 - Introducing New Financial Products

David outlines Wealthfront’s strategy for evolving and introducing new products over time, focusing on reducing costs, saving taxes, and fostering behavioral change. He discusses the automation of processes to enhance client outcomes.

29:06 - Prioritizing Innovation and Roadmap Planning

Melissa and David discuss the balance between strategic top-down priorities and bottom-up decision-making in setting the product roadmap. David describes how they align business and client needs to drive product innovation.

Episode Resources:

David on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmyszewski/
David on X: https://x.com/davewikipedia
Wealthfront: https://www.wealthfront.com/

Timestamps:

00:00 Coming Up

00:56 Introduction

02:48 Dear Melissa

05:28 Career Journey from Apple to Wealthfront

14:09 The Evolution of Wealthfront’s Mission

19:28 Introducing New Financial Products

29:06 Prioritizing Innovation and Roadmap Planning

35:54 Finding Product-Market Fit at Wealthfront

43:08 FinTech’s Future & Advice for Product Leaders

Episode 213: How Vanguard is Modernizing Finance Through Digital Innovation with Marco and Amber Mar 05, 2025

Show notes

Join us for an insightful episode where we explore the digital transformation journey at Vanguard with Marco De Freitas, Chief Product Officer for Vanguard's Personal Investor Business, and Amber Brestowski, Chief Product Officer for the Retirement Business.

Discover how Vanguard is modernizing client journeys, enhancing products, and building platforms that promise superior investment experiences. Marco and Amber share their strategies for leveraging AI and behavioral science to redefine client interactions, all while maintaining a strong focus on customer outcomes and innovation.

Whether you're interested in digital transformation, product management, or financial services innovation, this episode is packed with practical insights that you won't want to miss. Want to learn how Vanguard is leading the charge in transforming financial services? Tune in for the full episode.

You'll hear us talk about:

10:32 - Aligning Strategy with Product Execution

Amber discusses the importance of aligning product strategy with business goals at Vanguard. She emphasizes setting the right incentives and problems for product teams to solve, ensuring they focus on creating superior client experiences that drive competitive advantage.

22:56 - Experimentation in Client Modernization

Amber shares how Vanguard uses a North Star approach with key OKRs to drive outcomes. She outlines strategies for engaging clients and improving retirement readiness through behavioral finance and agile experimentation.

35:05 - Balancing Innovation and Optimization

Marco talks about Vanguard's approach to innovation, stressing the importance of client-centricity and empowering teams to innovate. He explains how a portfolio approach allows for both incremental improvements and moonshot projects, fostering a culture of continuous development.

Episode Resources:

Amber on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amber-brestowski-019b56ab/
Marco on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marco-de-freitas-80416714/
Vanguard website: https://investor.vanguard.com/

Timestamps:

00:00 Coming Up

01:05 Intro

09:10 Amber's Career Journey

12:11 Marco’s career journey

18:06 Modernizing Client Experience

22:56 Experimentation in Client Modernization

31:04 Aligning Business Strategy with Product Execution

37:43 Behavioral Science in Digital Experiences

46:50 Tackling Digital-First Transformation Challenges

49:58 Closing reflections

Episode 212: Avoiding Common Pitfalls in Corporate Innovation with Ben Hafele Feb 26, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, Melissa Perri is joined by Ben Hafele, CEO of Lean Startup Company, to explore the complexities of corporate innovation. Ben shares insights on how large companies can effectively integrate lean startup methodologies into their existing frameworks.

They discuss the importance of aligning innovation efforts with business strategies and how to avoid falling into the trap of unnecessary complexity. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in fostering meaningful innovation within large organizations while maintaining strategic alignment.

Are you looking to navigate the challenges of corporate innovation and strategic alignment? Tune in to this episode for valuable insights from Ben Hafele's experience with lean startup methodologies.

You'll hear us talk about:

10:45 - Establishing Connective Tissue for Innovation:

Ben introduces the concept of creating a "connective tissue" that links build-measure-learn cycles with overall business strategy. He explains how fostering this connection ensures that every experiment conducted is aligned with the company's broader objectives.

22:17 - Balancing Experimentation with Strategic Goals:

The discussion delves into the challenge of balancing experimentation with strategic goals. Ben shares approaches for ensuring that innovation initiatives do not deviate from the company's strategic priorities, maintaining relevance and purpose.

45:30 - Overcoming Complexity in Corporate Innovation:

Ben and Melissa discuss ways to overcome the inherent complexity in corporate innovation. They highlight practical strategies for simplifying processes and ensuring that innovation efforts remain effective and focused on delivering value.

Episode Resources:

Ben Hafele on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-hafele/
Lean Startup Co: https://leanstartup.co/
Sign up for a free Liveblocks account: ⁠https://liveblocks.io/⁠

Timestamps:

00:00 Coming Up

00:47 Dear Melissa

11:25 What Defines a Startup?

19:08 The Importance of Strategic Filters

24:38 The Innovation vs. Legacy Divide

31:35 B2B vs. B2C Experimentation Challenges

39:50 The Right Way to Build Capability in Organizations

46:42 Evolving Corporate Innovation

Episode 211: The Power of Team Topologies with Matthew Skelton Feb 19, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, I am thrilled to welcome Matthew Skelton, co-author of "Team Topologies: Organizing Business and Technology Teams for Fast Flow." We delve into the intricate intersections between team topology principles and product management, exploring how these frameworks can transform the way product teams work together to enhance collaboration and reduce cognitive load.

If you're looking to refine your team's approach to delivering outstanding customer outcomes, this episode is a must-listen. Matthew Skelton joins me to discuss the revolutionary concepts within "Team Topologies," highlighting their impact on modern product management and operations. We uncover how organizing teams around flow and customer value can drastically improve product outcomes. Matthew shares practical examples of how these concepts are applied in various industries, providing invaluable insights for anyone involved in managing or organizing product teams.

Curious about how team topologies can optimize your product processes? Tune in to hear Matthew Skelton's expert insights and discover practical strategies to enhance your team's workflow. Don't miss this opportunity to learn from a leading voice in the field of organizational design for software delivery.

You'll hear us talk about:

Product Managers in Regulated Spaces (28:30)We discuss the debate over whether product managers should be domain experts versus having deep product knowledge. Matthew provides insights into how teams can effectively leverage subject-matter experts without them managing the entire product line.
Breaking Silos in Teams (14:21)Matthew and I explore how organizations can overcome internal silos, emphasizing the importance of collaboration across product management, development, marketing, and sales for cohesive product delivery.
AI and Team Enablement (51:54)We dive into how AI is transforming team topologies and enabling teams, discussing the shift in AI enablement platforms and their potential in redefining team roles and productivity.

Episode Resources:

Matthew Skelton's Website: https://matthewskelton.com
Conflux Website: https://confluxhq.com
Team Topologies Information: https://teamtopologies.com
Sign up for a free Liveblocks account: ⁠https://liveblocks.io/⁠

Timestamps:

00:00 Episode Preview

00:56 Intro

03:00 Dear Melissa

08:35 Moving from Projects to Product

14:45 Breaking Silos in Teams

18:27 Mistakes in Product Models

28:14 Product Managers in Regulated Spaces

35:51 Product Ops at Scale

42:17 SAFE and Big Batch Planning

51:37 AI and Team Enablement

Episode 210: Navigating Product Leadership in Complex Industries with Fabio Brocca Feb 12, 2025

Show notes

In this episode, I welcome Fabio Brocca, Chief Product Officer at Xeneta, to discuss how product managers can effectively balance the urgency of product development with the need for strategic perfection.

Drawing from his extensive experience at Amazon and MSC, Fabio provides a unique take on the importance of swift iteration and execution in the fast-paced world of product management. We explore how real-time feedback can drive innovation and refine strategies without waiting for the elusive perfect plan.

Eager to understand how you can apply these insights to enhance your product processes? Join us for a deep dive into Fabio’s strategies and experiences in transforming the freight industry with agility and precision.

You’ll hear us talk about:

12:45 - Adapting Strategies Through Feedback Loops

Fabio discusses the significance of using real-time feedback to adapt and refine product strategies. He elaborates on the agility required to iterate based on customer interactions and feedback, which is crucial for any product manager aiming to remain relevant in dynamic markets.

23:05 - The Balance of Speed and Quality in Product Launches

We dive into the challenge of maintaining quality while prioritizing speed in product launches. Fabio shares his approach to managing expectations and aligning team efforts towards effective execution without sacrificing the end-user experience.

36:18 - Leadership in Fast-paced Product Environments

Fabio offers insights into leading product teams in high-pressure environments. He emphasizes the role of leadership in fostering a culture that embraces change and supports rapid iteration, ensuring teams are equipped to handle the demands of fast-paced product management.

Episode Resources:

Fabio on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/fabiobrocca/
Michele on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelesancricca/
Paul on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/pkinglux/
Reel Saber:www.reelsaber.com
Sign up for a free Liveblocks account: ⁠https://liveblocks.io/⁠

Tune in and gain practical strategies to enhance your product management techniques from one of the leading voices in the industry.

Timestamps:

00:00 Episode Preview00:59 Intro03:19 Dear Melissa09:22 Fabio’s Path to Product Management14:32 Early Challenges as a First-Time CPO24:47 Scaling from Amazon to a Growth-Stage Company30:38 Big Tech vs. Scale-Up38:28 Tackling Freight Industry Challenges42:48 Thriving in Less Glamorous Fields46:26 Fabio’s Leadership Philosophy

Episode 209: From Databases to Developer Platforms: The MongoDB Story with Andrew Davidson Feb 05, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, Melissa Perri talks with Andrew Davidson, Senior Vice President of Products at MongoDB. Andrew has been instrumental in transforming MongoDB from a traditional database company into a comprehensive developer data platform.

As MongoDB evolves, Andrew shares insights into managing technical products and enhancing user experiences, crucial areas for product managers working with complex platforms. Join us as we explore the nuances of product management in the world of databases and developer tools.

Andrew sheds light on maintaining a balance between technical excellence and strategic management, offering valuable lessons for product managers. Tune in to gain actionable insights on how to approach product management for highly technical products like databases and learn how this can impact broader business outcomes.

You'll hear us talk about:

09:29 The Spark Behind MongoDB

Andrew explains the motivation for creating MongoDB and how it challenged traditional relational databases, emphasizing the need for a system that aligns better with modern computing demands.

24:32 User Experience in Technical Products

We delve into the importance of user experience within technical products, highlighting the layers of user and developer experiences that product managers must consider.

35:50 Balancing Internal Innovation and Customer Feedback

Andrew discusses the importance of balancing internal innovation with customer feedback, stressing the necessity for product managers to engage directly with users to refine the product.

Episode Resources:

Andrew Davidson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewad/

Learn more about MongoDB: https://www.mongodb.com/

Timestamps:

00:00 Episode Preview

01:25 Introduction

02:57 Liveblocks

03:40 Dear Melissa

07:56 Early Days in Databases

15:39 MongoDB’s Longevity

21:13 From Database to Developer Data Platform

32:21 Ensuring Product Strategy in Technical Tools

39:51 The Rise of MongoDB Atlas

45:04 Navigating Market Perception and Growth

52:16 Balancing Speed and Stability in Tech

Episode 208: Scaling Research Ops to Drive Organizational Change with Kate Towsey Jan 29, 2025

Show notes

In this episode, Melissa Perri sits down with Kate Towsey, an authority on research operations and author of "Research That Scales." They dive into the significance of research ops in aligning product strategy and operations within a company, emphasizing how research can provide strategic insights essential for product development and organizational growth.

Kate discusses the evolution and necessity of research ops, sharing her journey from content strategy to pioneering the field. She highlights how effective research ops facilitate knowledge management, ensuring that valuable insights are not just gathered but are used to inform business decisions across an organization.

Tune in to discover how Kate's insights can transform your approach to integrating research into product strategy and the benefits of a well-structured research ops framework.

You’ll hear us talk about:

- 08:20 - Solving Recruitment Pain Points

Kate elaborates on the common starting point in research ops: participant recruitment. She discusses how managing this aspect effectively can impact product managers, researchers, and designers by enabling more seamless customer interactions.

- 28:52 - Democratizing Research through Collaboration

Melissa and Kate explore the importance of collaboration between product managers, UX designers, and researchers. They argue that while each role has its specialties, working together can democratize research and lead to better product decisions.

- 42:40 - Breaking Down Silos Between Teams

The discussion turns to the silos that exist within organizations, especially between product marketing and product management. Kate and Melissa share strategies for overcoming these divides to improve customer insights and product outcomes.

Episode Resources:

- Find Kate on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katetowsey/

- Purchase Kate's book, "Research That Scales," on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Research-That-Scales-Operations-Handbook/dp/1959029223/

- Subscribe to the Product Thinking Podcast newsletter for more insights here: https://productinstitute.kit.com/2c8b2a0136

Listen to the full episode to learn more about incorporating research ops into your strategy.

Timestamps:

00:00 Highlights

00:56 Intro

02:20 Dear Melissa

06:57 Kate Towsey's Journey into Research Ops

10:46 Understanding Research Operations

16:14 Challenges in Conducting Customer Research

23:38 The Shift of Research Ops to a Strategic Role

32:06 Collaboration in User Research

35:49 Right Tools to Scale Research

42:40 Research Ops and Product Ops Synergy

Episode 207: Mastering Predictable Product Success with the ODI Strategy with Tony Ulwick Jan 22, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast, Melissa Perri welcomes Tony Ulwick, the founder and CEO of Strategyn, and the pioneer behind the jobs-to-be-done theory and Outcome-Driven Innovation (ODI).

Tony shares insights from his groundbreaking work in redefining product development and innovation. He discusses the importance of separating innovation from development processes and why focusing on customer outcomes rather than features leads to more successful products.

Whether you’re a product manager looking to refine your approach or a leader aiming to align teams around customer needs, this episode is a treasure trove of practical guidance and deep insights into mastering the art of innovation.

Tune in to discover how you can leverage ODI to drive your product strategy towards success.

You’ll hear us talk about:

- 14:22 - Front-End Innovation vs. Development Process

Tony explains the importance of distinguishing between the innovation process—where the product concept is formed—and the development process, where Agile methods come into play. This separation ensures that only market-winning concepts proceed to development. - 19:41 - Understanding Customer Needs

Tony outlines the steps in Outcome-Driven Innovation, focusing on identifying and addressing customer needs to enhance product success. He emphasizes defining markets and needs before devising solutions.

- 28:06 - Aligning Teams on Customer Needs

Tony shares strategies to encourage organizational alignment on the definition and prioritization of customer needs, ensuring all teams work towards a common goal.

Episode Resources:

Tony Ulwick on LinkedIn

Strategyn

Our TOPPODCAST Picks

Follow Us

Stay Connected

Related Podcasts

Links

Stay Connected