Park Leaders Show

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Government & Organizations
**Park Leaders Show**

Park Leaders connects the wisdom of Park Managers, leaders in the park system, and thought leaders of the business world with up and coming park leaders. This is the show for Park Rangers, Park Managers, and leaders who want to have an impact. Join host Jody Maberry as he talks to park leaders from all over the world.

Latest Episodes:

The Debate Over Barred Owls Oct 06, 2026

Show notes

"We humans can really mess things up, but we also have a great capacity to do good as well."

Episode Chapters

[00:02:21] How Isle Royale shaped Wayne's approach to conservation

[00:06:53] Understanding the barred owl's natural range expansion

[00:10:14] Questioning whether barred owls are the primary problem

[00:13:16] Examining the federal barred owl removal strategy

[00:16:19] Why removing barred owls may become a continuous cycle

[00:23:31] Wayne's advice for future park leaders and conservationists

Animal advocate Wayne Pacelle joins Jody to take a closer look at the debate over barred owls in the Pacific Northwest. Spotted owl populations are declining, and one proposed solution is removing barred owls that compete with them. But Wayne questions whether killing one native species is the best way to protect another.

They talk about how barred owls reached the region, the role habitat loss has played, and why removing owls may not solve the larger problem. Wayne also shares how his time at Isle Royale National Park shaped the way he thinks about animals, conservation, and our responsibility to protect natural ecosystems.

Read the blog for more from this episode.

Connect with Wayne

Center For a Humane Economy

Animal Wellness Action

LinkedIn Wayne Pacelle

Resources

www.parkleaders.com

https://parkleaders.com/about/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

How to Get Things Done in a Bureaucracy Aug 04, 2026

Show notes

"Government isn't changed by policies. Government is changed by people."

Episode Chapters

[00:03:04] Why bureaucracy exists and what it was designed to accomplish

[00:07:38] Five practical ways to move ideas forward in large organizations

[00:10:19] Why reaching a decision maker is often the biggest obstacle

[00:11:03] How leaders can empower employees to accomplish more

[00:15:27] Why parks must think beyond today and plan for future generations

[00:20:21] Finding the people who influence decision makers

Phil Gaines returns to the Park Leaders Show for a discussion with Jody Maberry on one of the biggest challenges facing park leaders: getting things done in a bureaucracy. Phil explains why government was intentionally designed to move deliberately and how leaders can successfully navigate that reality. He shares five practical strategies for advancing ideas, including thinking strategically, understanding organizational systems, using visuals, finding champions, and reaching decision makers. The conversation also explores how leaders can build cultures that empower employees, encourage innovation, and move important initiatives forward for the benefit of future generations.

Read the blog for more from this episode.

Resources

www.parkleaders.com

https://parkleaders.com/about/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

Park Rangers Do What Has to be Done Jun 09, 2026

Show notes

"The administrator's job is to support the people who serve visitors every day."

Episode Chapters

[00:03:17] Bob McGill reflects on a 35-year career with Nevada State Parks

[00:04:57] Discovering that leadership can be a support role

[00:07:41] Surpassing milestones as a state park director

[00:10:03] Growing staffing, equipment, and resources across Nevada State Parks

[00:13:15] Why great park teams focus on the mission, not job titles

[00:21:31] Bob's advice for future park leaders

Bob McGill, recently retired administrator of Nevada State Parks, joins to reflect on a career spanning more than 35 years in parks. Bob shares how an unexpected path led him from park ranger to administrator and why he views leadership as a support role for the people serving visitors every day.

This conversation explores agency growth, staffing, equipment modernization, the acquisition of important conservation properties along the East Walker River, and the culture of teamwork that defines park professionals. Bob also offers advice for future leaders about credibility, follow-through, and inspiring the next generation to connect with the outdoors.

Resources

www.parkleaders.com

https://parkleaders.com/about/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

Managing the Visitor Experience Jun 02, 2026

Show notes

"You cannot personally make sure every visitor has a great time... but you can make sure at least one visitor has a great experience."

Episode Chapters

[03:36] Shifting from high attendance to quality visitor experiences

[05:33] Complexities of social carrying capacities explored

[08:50] Relying on technology and reservation systems

[10:22] Zion crowding and alternative options

[13:45] Addressing transportation infrastructure and shuttle loops

[16:20] Preventing staff burnout and managing morale

[19:13] Unintended consequences of park management choices

The busy summer season is officially here. We always asked for more people to discover the beauty of parks and conservation, and they certainly are! In this episode, Jody Mayberry welcomes back retired director of South Carolina State Parks, Phil Gaines, to discuss the realities of managing capacity, infrastructure, and visitor expectations during the peak summer months.

Phil and Jody trace how park philosophies have shifted from the old-school mentality of "packing them in" to a modern focus on preserving the social and resource carrying capacities of our public lands. They share personal stories from Zion and South Carolina's Lake Jocassee to highlight the balance between technology, transportation infrastructure, and personal connection. This episode serves as a guide for park supervisors on how to protect staff morale and prevent rangers from burning out on continuous traffic control.

Read the blog for more from this episode.

Resources

www.parkleaders.com

https://parkleaders.com/about/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

Art in Parks May 19, 2026

Show notes

"The best park art helps you feel like you're standing there."

Episode Chapters

[00:43] Arden Von Hager shares how a childhood outdoors connection shaped his life and art

[02:28] How Arden's artistic talent was recognized and developed into a career

[09:48] Creating national park artwork that captures what a place feels like

[14:24] The intentional process behind every painting

[23:18] Exploring opportunities for artist residencies and workshops in parks

[28:47] How art can inspire conservation and deepen public engagement

Jody Maberry welcomes artist and retired professor Arden von Haeger to discuss how he uses art to showcase the beauty of the natural world. Arden grew up in Pennsylvania, spending his childhood hiking and fishing. That love of the outdoors ultimately lead to a decades-long illustration career led to creating award-winning national park artwork for Anderson Design Group.

In this episode, Arden explains how he approaches each painting with intentional choices about composition, lighting, wildlife, and color. He works to capture what a place feels like rather than simply what it looks like. Listen to hear how art can inspire conservation, engage visitors, and create deeper emotional connections to parks and public lands.

Read the blog for more from this episode.

Connect with Arden von Haeger

vonHaeger.com

Resources

www.parkleaders.com

https://parkleaders.com/about/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

Using Technology to Enhance Recreation May 12, 2026

Show notes

"Parks become even more meaningful when you can track the memories you've made there."

Notable Moments

[00:00:32] Jada Dooling shares her family's goal to visit all 50 states

[00:02:28] How a road trip inspired the creation of All Roads Taken

[00:05:11] Features that help travelers set goals and track progress

[00:08:59] Using photos to automatically verify park visits

[00:10:35] Jada's favorite state and national parks

[00:18:32] How parks can partner with All Roads Taken

Jody Maberry welcomes Jada Dooling, co-founder of All Roads Taken, a travel app that helps families track where they've been and discover new places to explore. Jada shares how a road trip inspired the idea and how she and her husband built the app around their family's goal of visiting all 50 states. The conversation covers features like goal tracking, photo-based check-ins, and digital passports for state and national parks. Listen to this episodo to learn how All Roads Taken partners with parks to offer adventure badges and tools that encourage visitors to explore more and make lasting memories.

Read the blog for more from this episode.

Connect with Jada Dooling

Website All Roads Taken

LinkedIn Jada Dooling

LinkedIn All Roads Taken

Resources

www.parkleaders.com

https://parkleaders.com/about/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

Dealing With Depression and Anxiety in Parks Apr 21, 2026

Show notes

"When someone changes, something has changed in their life."

Notable Moments

[00:00:02] Why this episode was difficult but necessary to record

[00:01:22] Personal experience with depression while working in parks

[00:03:25] Lee Cockerell shares his experience with anxiety

[00:09:48] The importance of routine, activity, and support

[00:19:19] Why you should talk openly and seek help

[00:29:27] Recognizing changes in others and taking action

Jody Maberry shares a personal experience with depression and why this topic is important for park leaders. The episode includes a conversation with Lee Cockerell, who discusses his experience with anxiety. Lee shares how it developed and what he has done to manage it. The conversation highlights how mental health challenges can affect anyone, regardless of role or success. It's critical to recognize changes in others and yourself. If you are experiencing depression or anxiety it is important to talk to someone. It's important that leaders and team members to support one another. No one should face these challenges alone.

Read the blog for more from this episode.

Resources

www.parkleaders.com

https://parkleaders.com/about/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

You Don't Pick Your Legacy Mar 23, 2026

Show notes

"Legacy is not what you leave for people. It's what you leave in people."

Notable Moments

[00:00:56] How a simple story sparked a deeper look at legacy

[00:03:43] Why you don't get to choose your legacy

[00:06:32] The difference between leaving something for people vs. in people

[00:07:45] Why your greatest impact often goes unnoticed

[00:12:42] The reality of leadership: not everyone will agree with you

[00:20:52] Practical advice for building your legacy from day one

Jody Maberry and Phil Gaines explore the concept of legacy and what it truly means for park leaders. Phil shares insights from his career, including why leaders don't get to choose their legacy and how it's ultimately defined by others. The conversation focuses on the idea that legacy is not about projects or accomplishments, but about the impact left in people. They discuss how leadership decisions, relationships, and everyday interactions shape how others remember you. Phil also offers advice for early career leaders, encouraging them to stay grounded in purpose, lead with values, and recognize that their legacy begins with their very first day.

Resources

www.parkleaders.com

https://parkleaders.com/about/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/

Enhancing Parks, Museums, and Exhibits Mar 17, 2026

Show notes

"Technology should enhance the story without intruding on the landscape."

Notable Moments

[00:01:23] How immersive storytelling helps museums and visitor centers

[00:03:36] Approaching historic sites without overpowering artifacts

[00:07:22] Why media creates emotional connections for visitors

[00:11:37] How interpretive signs enhance experiences along trails

[00:13:58] Using technology like QR codes to expand storytelling

[00:19:02] Extending ranger knowledge through media and audio

[00:26:13] Helping parks refresh outdated exhibits with phased plans

[00:29:35] Advice for park leaders about engaging future generations

Jody Maberry welcomes guest Tim Steinouer, executive producer for BPI, a multimedia company that specializes in immersive environments for museums, attractions, and visitor centers. Tim shares how thoughtful storytelling, media, and interpretive design can enhance visitor experiences without overpowering the natural or historic elements that make parks special.

Tim shares how BPI helps modernize exhibits, use technology carefully along trails, and capture the voices of park rangers to extend interpretation beyond the visitor center. This is the kind of creative thinking that is important for park leaders to consider. How are you helping future generations discover, experience, and connect with parks?

Read the blog for more from this episode.

Connect with Tim Steinouer

BostonProductions.com

Resources

The History of Women Who Worked the Fire Lookouts Mar 10, 2026

Show notes

"These women helped protect our forests long before most people realized their role."

Episode Highlights

[00:00:42] Welcoming Allison Martin back to the show [00:02:16] Introducing the history of fire lookouts [00:05:04] Why lookout towers were critical for early fire detection [00:08:33] Women who served as early fire lookouts [00:12:11] The responsibilities of monitoring forests from remote towers [00:17:45] The solitude and discipline required for lookout work [00:21:18] Why these stories matter for understanding park history

This episode welcomes Allison Martin back to the show. Allison is an English teacher from Indiana and host of IN the Parks podcast, where she shares stories connected to Indiana State Parks.

In this episode, Jody shares one of Allison's podcast episodes that explores the history of women who served as fire lookouts. Long before modern fire detection systems, lookout towers played a critical role in protecting forests. The episode does a fantastic job showcasing the dedication, responsibility, and often overlooked contributions of women who helped protect forests and public lands.

Read the blog for more from this episode.

Connect with Allison

IN the Parks Podcast website

Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/INtheParksonline

Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/INtheparksonline

Resources

www.parkleaders.com

https://parkleaders.com/about/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/