Outspoken with Shana Cosgrove

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Can You Hear Me Now: Lauren Knausenberger, Chief Information Officer at the Department of the Air Force. May 30, 2023

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Information, Transformation, and Mission.

In this episode of The Outspoken Podcast, host Shana Cosgrove talks to Lauren Knausenberger, Chief Information Officer at the Department of the Air Force, about guiding the Air Force and Space Force in the rapidly expanding endeavors of enterprise IT, cybersecurity, data and AI. Lauren talks about how “missing the mission” pulled her into the Air Force in 2017 after a successful stint as an entrepreneur. Lauren expresses her conviction that “the family is a team”—whatever form that family takes—and she admires the Air Force tradition where families make career decisions together. Lauren shares how her martial arts training taught her the importance of getting back up and reveals her occasional joy in dressing down (though always sporting a blazer) amidst the formal work environment of the Pentagon's E-ring.

QUOTES

“I also had a rule as an entrepreneur that if I didn’t want to drink a beer with you, I wasn’t doing business with you [...] You have to be able to look someone in the eye and know that a handshake means something even before a contract would.” - Lauren Knausenberger [14:09]
“If you asked every stakeholder in your life, ‘What is the most important thing that I can do for you, and what are the things that you don’t care about?’ and if you could get an honest answer, [...] how much time do you get back? How often do you knock yourself out trying to meet an expectation that maybe someone doesn’t even have of you?” - Lauren Knausenberger [19:49]
“I’ve never not felt empowered anywhere, even when I probably wasn’t. No matter what the job was, I was going to crush that job. [...] I really didn’t care who got credit for it, I was going to make a difference.” - Lauren Knausenberger [48:39]

TIMESTAMPS

[00:04] Intro
[01:34] Meet Lauren Knausenberger
[06:06] Running Hard: Working as a Civilian at the Pentagon
[09:32] Post-Pentagon Plans
[13:28] Adding Value While Raising Young Children
[14:38] Falling into the Air Force by Accident
[17:39] The Career and Family Arc: Beautiful Time and Prioritizing Ruthlessly
[22:12] Keeping Yourself in Balance
[27:32] Intelligence Community at 17, then Decision and Information Sciences
[40:45] An Innovation Ecosystem: Just What Did Lauren Sketch on That Napkin?
[48:12] Turnarounds: Fixing and Growing Programs
[53:40] Collaboration in the Era of Zero Trust
[57:34] Measuring Product Success and User Experience in the DoD
[1:02:44] Supporting the Mission
[1:05:13] Books to Read
[1:08:14] Making Missteps, Remembering Recovery, and Building Empathy
[1:15:01] Outro

RELEVANT LINKS

Lauren Knausenberger on LinkedIn
Lauren Knausenberger biography on SAF/CN
Nyla Technology Solutions

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Live well, Shana

Can You Hear Me Now: Latisha Rourke, Vice President, Cyber & Intelligence & General Manager at Lockheed Martin. May 23, 2023

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Engineering, Creativity, and Confidence.

In this episode of The Outspoken Podcast, host Shana Cosgrove talks to Latisha (Tish) Rourke, Vice President, Cyber & Intelligence & General Manager at Lockheed Martin. Tish tells Shana about her leadership role at Lockheed Martin and offers good advice about selecting in for challenging work. She describes being “a unicorn”—a woman studying electrical engineering—and explains what mentoring looks like when you’re in a field that’s still only 20% women. Tish talks about her long and varied career at Lockheed Martin, where she has worked dockside on submarine systems, in business development, as a program manager, as a systems engineer, and then even developing software with assembly code. She shares with Shana her passions for reading Tom Clancy and binge-watching Jack Ryan and explains why as a person working in a team-driven industry she turns to the lost art of quilting when she really wants a solo project.

QUOTES

“I encourage people to take risks, to take chances. You’ve proven yourself up to this point, and your organization’s going to believe in you. And if it doesn’t work out, hey, we’re a big organization and we’re going to find another role for you.” - Latisha Rourke [09:00]
“In school you’re rewarded for doing the job by yourself and solidifying that knowledge individually. In industry you’re rewarded for getting something done efficiently. And if somebody has already solved 50% of your problem and you get that solution from them [...] and you get it done in half the time, you’re rewarded for that.”- Latisha Rourke [17:22]
“Don’t just think about the next job. Have a much larger, longer view so that you make sure that the steps that you take in your career path don’t derail you from getting to the job you ultimately want.” - Latisha Rourke [36:54]

TIMESTAMPS

[00:04] Intro
[01:34] Meet Tish Rourke
[04:02] Moving up and Moving over from Electronic Warfare to Cyber & Intelligence
[07:52] Learn to “Self-Select in” for Leadership Roles
[12:09] Surround Yourself with People Who Cover Your Gaps
[13:40] In the 20%: Being a Woman Studying Electrical Engineering
[17:04] Problems, Problem Sets, and Learning to Work with a Team
[20:34] From College to a Career at Lockheed Martin
[22:04] How the Customer Really Is Right
[25:38] Finding Breadth of Opportunity within the Organization
[28:42] Building Skills in a Stretch Position
[32:51] Mentoring and the Value of Mid-Course Corrections
[35:58] Advice to Young Engineers
[37:47] Be Calm and Confident, But Recognize You Might Be Wrong
[42:28] On Crucial Conversations in the Office and at Home
[48:26] Reaching out to Students: Lockheed Martin’s CYBERQUEST and CodeQuest
[52:39] Outro

RELEVANT LINKS

Latisha Rourke on LinkedIn
Nyla Technology Solutions

Live well, Shana

Can You Hear Me Now: Cori Lathan, PhD, Author of Inventing the Future and Founder of AnthroTronix May 16, 2023

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Technology, Timing, and the Metaverse.

In this episode of The Outspoken Podcast, host Shana Cosgrove talks to Dr. Corinna (Cori) Lathan, Chief Science Officer at DANA Brain Vital, about her current role and her two decades as founder and CEO of AnthroTronix. Cori tells Shana about how she pursued her interests in neuroscience and human space flight into lab jobs (the “vomit comet”) and then a PhD in Neuroscience and an MS in Aeronautics and Astronautics from MIT (in that order). They discuss her decision to leave a tenured university position to start up AnthroTronix, and Cori retells the company’s history of groundbreaking inventions, moving from educational robotics to designing VR experiments for the International Space Station to making “sensors for soldiers.” Cori talks about how she wrote her 2022 book, Inventing the Future: Stories from a Techno-Optimist, as a legacy memoir of her company, as an inspiration to younger generations, and as a way to honor the memory of her parents. She tells Shana that we are already living in the metaverse, urges listeners to make STEM a creative endeavor again, and remembers when her fifth-grade classmates voted her “most likely to go to Mars.”

QUOTES

“I think we’re going to move in and out of the physical-digital convergence. ‘Physical-digital convergence’ is how I think of the metaverse. And It’s going to be a spectrum of technologies, and it’s going to be a spectrum of uses, and it’s going to be pervasive. Our day will be moving in and out of this physical-digital continuum.” - Cori Lathan [13:05]
“Call it whatever you want. Get the tools you need to get [things] done. . . . If you need to have the label, you can always tack the label on.” - Cori Lathan [48:23]
“We very much have done ourselves a disservice by making math the end-all, be-all. . . . I happen to love math and I happen to have been good at it. If I hadn’t, I would have been completely steered out of a STEM career.” - Cori Lathan [50:19]

TIMESTAMPS

[00:04] Intro
[01:34] Meet Cori Lathan
[04:30] Writing the Stories of AnthroTronix’s Inventions
[09:35] Emerging Technologies That Improve Human Performance
[12:12] Living in the Metaverse? How Pervasive AR/VR Will Be
[14:32] Finding the Authentic as New-Generation Digital Natives
[16:49] On Tech and Timing: When Technology Meets Market Readiness
[21:42] Starting up AnthroTronix
[27:45] Winning a National Science Foundation SBIR Grant
[29:10] From Disability Product Development to DARPA
[34:07] Growing Up Fearless, Inventing a College Major at Swarthmore
[40:50] Researching Human Space Flight, Earning a Neuroscience PhD at MIT
[48:15] Find Cool Projects with Cool People
[51:36] Maker Spaces: Let’s Change the Way We Do STEM Education
[57:58] Outro

RELEVANT LINKS

Cori Lathan on LinkedIn
Cori Lathan at Outspoken Agency
Nyla Technology Solutions

Live well, Shana

Can You Hear Me Now: Kristen Parks, Owner and Chief Creative Officer at Eleven Peppers Studios. May 09, 2023

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Creativity, Collaboration, and Staying Collected.

In this episode of The Outspoken Podcast, host Shana Cosgrove talks to Kristen Parks, Owner and Chief Creative Officer at Eleven Peppers Studios. Kristen shares the challenges and excitement of being a creative professional in the world of government contracting, emphasizing the importance of creative engagement as a "have-to-have." She recounts the journey of founding a creative services company that delivers a wide range of solutions, from UX to branding and marketing. Kristen sheds light on the collaborative structure at Eleven Peppers, highlighting the value of stepping back and allowing others to create exceptional work. She underscores the significance of scheduling—even for breakfast—in maintaining a work-life balance, and she smiles at the younger self who thought a two-hour commute on the DC Metro Orange Line was a good idea.

QUOTES

“The business is kind of a baby in itself . . . especially in the beginning. Right now it feels like a third child.” - Kristen Parks [17:10]
“I rely on relationships of all kinds to kind of support that mentorship piece. Like I wouldn’t say I have one mentor. I would say I have a lot of confidence in colleagues that I trust . . . . I have different pieces that make up the puzzle of a mentor.” - Kristen Parks [30:25]
“I would just say don’t be afraid to let us in. Don’t look at it as an added expense, an extra, a ‘nice to have,’ if we have it in the budget. . . . Look at it as a ‘have to have.’ Just as much as you need an engineer, you need a creative person, because it’s like two superpowers combined.” - Kristen Parks [42:04]

TIMESTAMPS

[00:04] Intro
[01:34] Meet Kristen Parks
[04:33] Mixing It Up: Working with Government and Commercial Clients
[08:32] Seeing an Opportunity, Starting Eleven Peppers
[12:53] Building an Entrepreneurial Perspective
[16:45] Blending in Family
[21:10] Education in Visual Communications Design and Graphic Design
[27:27] Pushing Back on “Don’t Be Too Creative!”
[29:18] Putting Together the Pieces of the Mentorship Puzzle
[33:29] Stepping Back to Watch the Team Create Amazing Things
[37:11] Being Proud When People Choose–and Stay with–Eleven Peppers
[38:19] Learning Lessons and Managing Stress
[41:09] For the Engineers: Welcoming Creativity, Marrying Art and Technology
[45:52] Looking at Yourself . . . and Making Sure You Know Your Own Lane
[53:11] Outro

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Live well, Shana

Can You Hear Me Now: Meena Nankani, Vice President at J.P. Morgan Private Bank. May 02, 2023

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Mentorship, Trailblazing, and Financial Confidence.

In this episode of The Outspoken Podcast, host Shana Cosgrove talks to Meena Nankani, Vice President at J.P. Morgan Private Bank. Meena shares how her mother's experience with money after her father's death inspired her to enter the banking space and help clients feel secure in their finances. As a black woman in finance, Meena discusses the challenges and rewards of navigating the industry and serving as a role model. She details the various offerings of JPMorgan Chase & Co, emphasizing that money shouldn't be intimidating and that facing it head-on makes it more manageable. From individual assistance to comprehensive wealth management solutions, Meena explains how J.P. Morgan supports its clients. Lastly, she offers advice to young professionals, talks about building her network, and reveals her shared love for Formula 1 with her daughter.

QUOTES

“My father passed away when he was 63. And when my mom had to deal with finances for the first time, she was very uncomfortable with all of the decisions. [...] She was very nervous throughout the experience, and I think that almost solidified the work that I do now, because I wanted to make sure that you feel comfortable. [12:29]
“What we like to say is that there’s a place for everyone within J.P. Morgan Chase [...] From if you walk into a branch and you want to open a personal or business account; or if you are at a point of inflection; or if you just want to have day-to-day banking or day-to-day business and you want to work with an individual. At any level and at any type, there’s always the right fit, so we just want to help where we can.” - Meena Nankani [44:06]
“I like a challenge. And I, sort of like this idea of, let's get messy, let's figure it out. [...] It's not gonna be pretty at the outset, but you learn from everything along the way, right? And so if you're scared of it and you sort of shy away from it, then you're doing yourself a disservice.” - Meena Nankani [47:13]

TIMESTAMPS

[00:04] Intro
[01:34] Meet Meena Nankani
[06:37] The Emotional Component of Money
[18:06] Becoming a Banker
[28:43] Meena’s Time as an Analyst
[37:27] Shifting from a Hedge Fund to Private Banking
[42:29] Chase Wealth Management Compared to J.P. Morgan Private Bank
[46:37] Getting Educated About Wealth Management
[49:10] Meena’s Experience as a Black Woman in Banking
[54:59] Book Recommendations
[56:55] Meena’s Advice to Her Younger Self
[59:04] Meena and her Daughter’s Love for Formula 1
[01:00:33] Outro

RELEVANT LINKS

Live well, Shana

From the Rafters: Frankie Velez, President of Praxis Engineering. Nov 29, 2022

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Presence, Ambition, and Balance.

In this episode of The Outspoken Podcast, host Shana Cosgrove talks to Frankie Velez, President of Praxis Engineering, a General Dynamics Information Technology (GD-IT) company working to support U.S. military and intelligence agencies in solving complex problems. Frankie tells Shana about growing up between Puerto Rico, Connecticut, and Florida, then choosing to join the Navy which led to his start in intelligence. Frankie talks about the path he took to reach his current leadership position at Praxis and discusses with Shana the shift in perspective that goes with moving up from project management—where technical proficiency is paramount—to executive roles—where critical thinking and communicating with team members become vitally important. He explains how he knew he wanted to be a company president, how he learned to seek balance and develop a ‘leadership compass’ along the way, and how it all might have turned out differently if, as a long-haired teenage surfer, he had accepted that invite to train for Pro-Am competition.

QUOTES

“I always, always, always run my decisions through my team—specifically, my immediate leaders. Because I want to make sure that I’m putting my best foot forward and I want to make sure that I’ve thought through the risk. There’s no way I can have all the answers, so I have to depend on my team.” - Frankie Velez [27:17]
“What makes you happy? You need to focus on that. Because your better self is never going to be what you bring forth if you’re not happy. If you’re living for somebody else, or for something else, or for some ideal that’s not what you really believe in, it doesn’t help you.” - Frankie Velez [37:22]
“I publish my [leadership compass] and I put myself on notice. In other words, ‘Here are my expectations, here is what I expect from you, and here is how I am going to lead you to success [ . . . ] and you are more than welcome to hold me accountable if I am not living to those expectations.’” - Frankie Velez [33:38]

TIMESTAMPS

[00:04] Intro
[01:54] Meet Frankie Velez
[04:51] On Being Present as the President of Praxis
[08:39] From Boeing Intelligence to Praxis
[11:18] Critical Thinking and the Executive Interview
[14:08] Praxis as Industry Leader and Employee-Focused Entity
[15:50] On Being a GDIT Subsidiary: Who Do We Want to Be?
[18:51] Growing up in Connecticut, Puerto Rico, and Florida
[21:47] Choosing the Navy, Building Knowledge and Networks Post-Retirement
[25:23] On Stepping Stones and Ambition
[29:43] Learning on and off the Job, Getting Past “Failing at Leadership”
[32:42] Does Your Team Know What Your Expectations Are?
[36:23] To Young People: Do What Makes You Happy
[40:00] Pause and Make Change
[43:38] Holding Yourself Accountable and Doing the Right Thing
[48:46] Outro

RELEVANT LINKS

Frankie Velez on LinkedIn
Nyla Technology Solutions

Live well, Shana

From the Rafters: Cynthia P. Jenkins, CMO and Founder of Skillsgapp Nov 15, 2022

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Collaborating, Gaming, and the STEM Talent Pipeline

In this episode of The Outspoken Podcast, host Shana Cosgrove talks to Cynthia Jenkins, founder and CMO of Skillsgapp, maker of Skillionaire Games. Cynthia describes how her company is developing video games that school districts and industry leaders can use to teach middle and high school students about STEM careers in their local communities. Cynthia describes her training in journalism and advertising as well as her mid-career transition—together with collaborator Tina Zwolenski—from marketing to the world of gaming. Shana and Cynthia talk about the need for soft skills in every field and the increasing recognition that reaching and teaching kids earlier about opportunities in STEM is crucial to filling an anticipated 700,000 new tech jobs with industry and government employers. Cynthia says that, yes, sometimes you actually should go to bed angry, and she tells Shana a surprising story about a chance meeting with The Rolling Stones’ Ronnie Wood.

QUOTES

“It’s a testament to this generation. They want to advocate for their own future, and they don’t want you to hide it.” - Cynthia Jenkins [27:01]
“You spend a lot of time looking at what’s behind you, what’s behind you, what’s behind you. And it’s that pivot, looking right next to you all the way to the front, and that runway ahead of you.” - Cynthia Jenkins [32:57]
“You shouldn’t have to rely on trust. Get everything in writing and legal [. . . ] Get it really buttoned up. And then you both are safe, you’ve already made the hard decisions, and then you just get to be partners.” - Cynthia Jenkins [36:45]

TIMESTAMPS

[00:04] Intro
[01:54] Meet Cynthia Jenkins
[04:19] Connecting Kids to Life-Changing Careers Though Game-Changing Play
[09:50] From Marketing to Making
[13:44] Bringing Games to Schools and Industry
[16:06] Getting Kids in the Game as Testers and as Players
[19:18] Long Hours and Steep Learning Curves
[24:14] Instructional Design for the Smartphone Generation
[28:17] Having Fun at Work, Being the Funniest in the Room
[32:11] Reaching and Teaching Kids Earlier
[34:36] Collaborating with Tina Zwolenski in Zwo and Beyond
[36:46] First, Get It in Writing
[39:54] Sleep on a Problem, Wake up with a Fresh Perspective
[41:06] Doing Hard Things and Inspiring a New Generation
[46:39] On Kissing Ron Wood
[51:50] Outro

RELEVANT LINKS

Live well, Shana

From the Rafters: Shana Cosgrove, Founder and CEO of Nyla Technology Solutions. Nov 08, 2022

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Taking Time, Refining the Process, and Creating a Unicorn Farm

In this special episode of The Outspoken Podcast, Rebecca Scott of TallSmall Productions interviews podcast host Shana Cosgrove, founder and CEO of Nyla Technology Solutions. Shana describes how her goals changed over time: at first she’d hoped to climb the corporate ladder, and then she realized she could start a company of her own. Shana tells Rebecca the story of how she named her company after her mother, Nyla, creating a people-centered company rooted in the values that her mother lived by. She talks about navigating the uncertainties of the Covid-19 pandemic as a contractor in the defense sector, where remote work is common but security constraints mean “work from home” can’t work for every employee. Shana explains that she started Outspoken because she wanted to hear from female experts—and she reminds us that you don’t have to make every single sandwich to be a great mom.

QUOTES

“I’m a huge risk-taker professionally. I never was attracted to going to the big companies. I was never attracted to the long-term stability of the company. I was always very interested in the work that was going to be done.” - Shana Cosgrove [15:26]
“There’s an endless amount of work to be done, but not all of that is valuable. Sometimes you are gold-plating or making something better or making something bigger that doesn’t need to be done [. . .] It is really understanding the limits, which will force a prioritization of what needs to be done. And that’s why they say, ‘You want something done, you give it to a busy person.’” - Shana Cosgrove [34:19]
“The best thing you can do is just really enjoy where you are and embrace all that’s good of where you are.” - Shana Cosgrove [53:23]

TIMESTAMPS

[00:04] Intro
[02:14] Meet Shana Cosgrove
[04:18] On Understanding Business and Starting Nyla Technology Solutions
[09:58] On Learning to Like the Defense Industry
[13:20] Getting Ready to Launch
[17:17] Just Know That You’ll Figure It Out
[22:35] Naming for Values, Naming for a Woman
[25:13] Navigating COVID-19 in a People-Centered Company
[31:50] When to Wind Down . . . and When to Double Down
[36:13] Nourishing Yourself While Managing a Company
[39:36] Inviting Women to Be Outspoken
[43:04] Making Money is Freedom
[45:46] Envisioning Nyla’s Future
[49:34] Raising Children While Running a Unicorn Farm
[53:35] Winning Friends and Influencing People in Tech
[57:16] Outro

RELEVANT LINKS

Live well, Shana

From the Rafters: Jennifer Walsmith, Vice President of Cyber and Information Solutions at Northrop Grumman Nov 01, 2022

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Balancing, Pivoting, and Innovating Through Diversity

In this episode of The Outspoken Podcast, host Shana Cosgrove talks to Jennifer Walsmith, Vice President of Cyber and Information Solutions at Northrop Grumman. Shana and Jennifer talk about the capacity for remote work to broaden access to decision-makers and increase organizational agility. Jennifer talks about her 20+ years at NSA—from a GS-2 to being the Senior Acquisition Executive (SAE)—and her experiences earning a degree in computer science, leaving government for a stint in industry, and prioritizing her family all along the way. She describes her role in relation to Northrop Grumman’s Global Ballistic Strategic Deterrent contract, developing and then seeing through their pivot to cyber solutions. Lastly, Jennifer tells Shana why she originally picked computer science over engineering and describes her surprise when a recent Meyers-Briggs test indicated that she may not be as extroverted as she thought.

QUOTES

“As you go through a major change, they used to talk about it in the terms of sailing [ . . . ] When you decide to tack to get better wind, it’s so important that you not get caught in what is called irons, which is that lull as you are trying to move to the new wind. [ . . .] Races are won or lost not on the decision to tack, but the execution of that move.” - Jennifer Walsmith [12:48]
“Trust is one of the most important things that you have to build. Trust is really the thing that comes after you’ve built all the relationships.” - Jennifer Walsmith [36:47]
“I’m not convinced that more hours is more effective. You have to keep getting more effective with your time. You have to think about how you empower others around you, how you leverage that team. [ . . . ] It doesn’t have to be the 80-hour work week, and it doesn’t have to be the way we’ve always done it.” - Jennifer Walsmith [43:54]

TIMESTAMPS

[00:04] Intro
[01:56] Meet Jennifer Walsmith
[07:02] Bridging Intelligence and Defense at Northrop Grumman
[08:25] On the Cyber Segment of Global Ballistic Strategic Deterrent (GBSD)
[11:24] Strategizing—and Executing—the Pivot to Cyber Solutions
[15:51] NSA to SAIC, and Back to NSA
[23:10] High Energy, the Drive to Achieve, and Following Family Passions
[25:31] Choosing Computer Science over Engineering
[30:03] Seven Jobs at NSA, All the Way to SAE (Senior Acquisition Executive)
[36:47] Trust is the Key to Building a Strong Team
[39:29] Being a Woman in Senior Leadership
[43:40] Finding New Models for Leadership
[46:39] Diversity of Thought Delivers Innovative Solutions
[51:08] Be Brave, Have Courage, and Find a Job that Inspires You
[56:04] Outro

RELEVANT LINKS

Jennifer Walsmith on LinkedIn
Nyla Technology Solutions

Live well, Shana

From the Rafters: Angel Smith, Partner, Mission Solutions and Customer Expansion (MSCE) at Microsoft Oct 25, 2022

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Cyber Diversity, Running Heels, and Working Toward the Metaverse.

In this episode of The Outspoken Podcast, host Shana Cosgrove talks to Angel Smith, PhD, Partner, Mission Solutions and Customer Expansion (MSCE) at Microsoft. Angel talks to Shana about how data and data cooperation matter in today’s changing security environment, where the U.S. must consider the potential for conflicts with peer (no longer “near-peer”) adversaries. She describes the career path that led her from a career in the Marines as a C-130 pilot to a Congressional staff role overseeing the Military Intelligence Program and most recently to Microsoft. Angel shares what it feels like to get a second chance at life after a cancer diagnosis at age 23, and she explains what a PhD in organizational psychology brings to conversations about building a future metaverse. She tells young people to trust in their capabilities and learn how to win friends and influence people.

QUOTES

“If you think about it - the threats that are starting to come at us - we’re used to [being able to] clearly define an adversary space geographically. We knew where wars were taking place. The way that things work now is everything is global all the time, and we are starting to see the advantage is actually decision superiority: who can get as much information as possible to make the smartest real-time decision?” - Angel Smith [11:58]
“One big takeaway was that service looks very different from a lot of different angles. And so I was working with people that had never served a day in their life in the military or anywhere else outside of tech, but they were some of the most incredible patriots I had ever met in my entire life. Some of the most brilliant people who were so, so, so dedicated to mission in such a passionate way. - Angel Smith [26:27]
“There’s also this component of We’ve always done it this way, not realizing that we must evolve, because things are—everything around us is changing. We must change alongside that. We must continue to do things a little bit better. - Angel Smith [51:54]

TIMESTAMPS