Show notes
Award-winning undercover investigator Lindsay Oliver joins Jasmin and Mariann to discuss her groundbreaking work inside a national primate research center and her new memoir, Marshmallows Are Their Favorite: Undercover at a Primate Lab. Over a two-decade career spanning more than 100 investigations across factory farms, research labs, zoos, and circuses, Lindsay shares what it’s really like to go undercover in facilities where animals are used for experimentation — the psychological toll on investigators, the surprising emotional lives of the monkeys she came to know, and the complicated reality of the lab workers who care for them but feel trapped inside a system they can’t question.
- Inside a primate research lab: Lindsay describes what she witnessed working undercover at a facility confining over 5,000 monkeys — from the routine procedures like blood draws and TB testing to the devastating effects of lifelong solitary cage confinement on intelligent, emotional beings.
- The workers’ story: A major focus of the book and the conversation is the lab workers themselves — people who often took jobs as animal caretakers without fully understanding the reality of animal testing, and who experience moral injury, trauma, and fear of speaking out while working inside a system that discourages dissent.
- Justify — supporting lab workers: Lindsay explains why she founded Justify, an organization that provides a safe space for current and former lab workers to process their experiences, share their stories, and bridge the gap between the scientific community and animal advocacy movement.
- Animals International US and Toxicity.inc: Lindsay discusses her role as executive director of Animals International US, including the recent Toxicity.inc whistleblower exposé revealing what goes on inside UK labs owned by a US company — and why animal testing is a global problem, not someone else’s problem.
- Reasons for optimism: Lindsay shares why she feels more hopeful than ever about the movement to end animal research, citing shifts at the FDA, NIH investments in non-animal science, and a growing willingness within government agencies to question the status quo — plus what listeners can do to help, starting with leading with empathy instead of judgment.
ABOUT OUR GUEST
Lindsay Oliver is an award-winning undercover investigator and the author of the new book, Marshmallows Are Their Favorite: Undercover at a Primate Lab. Over the past two decades, she has personally conducted or overseen more than 100 investigations inside research labs, animal agriculture, zoos, circuses, and other industries that exploit animals. She is the Executive Director of Animals International US and the founder and CEO of Justify.
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