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    True Crime

    Nobody Should Believe Me

    Author Andrea Dunlop is looking for answers. When her older sister was first investigated for Munchausen by Proxy abuse more than a decade ago, it tore her family apart. This catastrophic series of events sent Dunlop on a journey to understand this most taboo form of abuse. In this groundbreaking podcast, she talks to some of the top experts in the world to explore the criminology and psychopathology behind Munchausen by Proxy and to reveal the wide swath of destruction these perpetrators leave in their wake.
    In each season, Dunlop investigates a case: speaking to friends, family members, doctors, law enforcement, child protection workers, and experts. Nobody Should Believe Me unravels these complex and terrifying stories, shedding light on an unspeakable crime.
    “A rich and harrowing chronicle of the condition.” –The New York Times
    ​ ​ (LM032423)

    Advertise

    Copyright: © 2022

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    Latest Episodes:
    S06 E04: The Caretaker Jul 10, 2025
    Show notes

    Mishelle describes her brother Collin as a vibrant little boy who loved to joke around and make people laugh. All of that changed, seemingly overnight. Sabrina and Mishelle walk Andrea through their memory of the timeline of Collin’s symptoms, and his eventual diagnosis with NMO (Neuromyelitis Optica). This recounting of events exposes some discrepancies in the family’s memory and Lisa’s public story, as well as a rapid escalation in the medication given to Collin.

    We’re introduced to Lisa’s blog on CaringBridge, where she kept a detailed account of Collin’s medical journey. She quickly begins referring to NMO as a fatal disease, even mentioning the possibility of hospice care. However, this portrayal is challenged by a pediatric neuroimmunologist we’ll refer to as Dr. K, who specializes in NMO. Dr. K offers a clear explanation of what Neuromyelitis Optica is, the diagnostic criteria, and just how rare the condition is—particularly in children.

    As suspicions grow within their tight-knit community and the family’s financial support runs dry, the McDaniels relocate to Alabama to seek care from NMO expert Dr. Jayne Ness.

    ***

    Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit

    Andrea’s August 1st event with Gregg Olsen: https://www.libertybaybooks.com/event/west-sound-crime-con-2025-local-authors-gregg-olsen-and-andrea-dunlop

    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    ***

    This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources.

    The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources.

    Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes.

    This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant.

    These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization.

    The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections.

    Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    S06 E03: “Open, Reliable, and Trustworthy” Jul 03, 2025
    Show notes

    We begin this week’s episode with a young Mishelle struggling to adjust to life with her grandparents, finding it difficult to accept both the separation from her parents and the reality of what her mother had done. Meanwhile, Lisa is in the midst of a police investigation, undergoing a psychological evaluation and attending therapy.

    We hear from Bea Yorker—an expert in Munchausen by Proxy and the President of Munchausen Support—and Dr. Mary Sanders, a Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Stanford University and a member of APSAC’s Munchausen by Proxy committee. They explain what should have been considered during Lisa’s evaluation and what it truly means to "treat" someone with Munchausen by Proxy.

    Armed with letters from therapists attesting to her remorse, Lisa turns to the online forum MAMA (Mothers Against Munchausen Allegations) to build her case for court. There, she begins digging for information on enemy number one: Bea Yorker.

    ***

    Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit

    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    ***

    This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources.

    The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources.

    Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes.

    This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant.

    These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization.

    The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections.

    Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    S06 E02: “How Could Someone Do That to a Child?” Jun 26, 2025
    Show notes

    Lisa’s second child, Angellyn, was born prematurely and in a medically fragile state. Mishelle and her aunt Sabrina recount a troubling pattern: just as Angellyn would be cleared for hospital discharge, doctors would abruptly reverse course, warning that she might not survive the night.

    Andrea speaks to a nurse, “Judy”, who was working in the Pediatric Intensive Care Unit (PICU) at the time of Angellyn’s hospitalizations. Judy walks us through the medical team’s growing suspicions and their decision to install surveillance cameras in Angellyn’s hospital room. The footage reveals deeply disturbing behavior by Lisa and Carey’s utter compliance, prompting an investigation into the parents. Ultimately, custody of both Mishelle and Angellyn was revoked, and the children were placed with their maternal grandparents.

    ***

    Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit

    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    ***

    This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources.

    The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources.

    Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes.

    This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant.

    These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization.

    The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections.

    Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    S06 E01: The Advocate Jun 19, 2025
    Show notes

    This season on Nobody Should Believe Me, we tell the story of Lisa McDaniel, who crafted a public image as the Director of Patient Advocacy at the Guthy Jackson Foundation while concealing her conviction for child abuse more than a decade ago.

    We begin with an introduction to the McDaniel family: Lisa, her husband Carey, and their children—Mishelle, Angellyn, and Collin. While the unraveling of their family began when Collin was “diagnosed” with NMO (Neuromyelitis Optica), to understand the full story, we must go back to where it all began: Hazlehurst, Georgia.

    Andrea and our producer Myrriah travel with Mishelle–Lisa’s courageous eldest daughter– to her mother’s hometown, where they sit down with Lisa’s younger sister, Sabrina. Sabrina recounts a childhood marked by emotional manipulation and physical abuse at the hands of her older sister. She walks us through Mishelle’s early years, how, as a baby, she was often left with relatives for days at a time, and then through Lisa’s troubled pregnancy with her second child, Angellyn.

    Stay tuned through the end of the episode for a preview of what’s to come this season.

    ***

    Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit

    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    ***

    This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources.

    The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources.

    Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes.

    This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant.

    These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization.

    The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections.

    Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Case Files 22: Rady Children’s Part 6 Jun 12, 2025
    Show notes

    This week on Nobody Should Believe Me, Andrea and Dr. Bex dive further into the allegations against Dr. Paolo Bolognese, discussing the whistleblower complaint that exposed unnecessary medical treatments as well as sexual harassment accusations. They explore how deceptive marketing and the glamorization of medical authority can lead to real harm—especially for patients with complex or misunderstood conditions.

    ***

    Andrea’s June 28th event with Lisa Jewell: https://townhallseattle.org/event/lisa-jewell/

    Andrea’s August 1st event with Gregg Olsen: https://www.libertybaybooks.com/event/west-sound-crime-con-2025-local-authors-gregg-olsen-and-andrea-dunlop

    Follow Dr. Bex on instagram: @secretdoctorbex

    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Season 6 Trailer Jun 06, 2025
    Show notes

    Season 6 of Nobody Should Believe Me–out weekly starting June 19, available in full for subscribers at launch– covers the extraordinary and tragic saga of the McDaniel family, a real-life Southern Gothic tale of Munchausen by Proxy that spans decades and has left untold damage in its wake.

    For the past twelve years, Lisa McDaniel worked for The Guthy Jackson Foundation, a high-profile non-profit, dedicated to a rare disease called NMO (Neuromyelitis Optica), from which Lisa claims her son suffered.

    But while Lisa appears to be a sweet Southern mom whose personal tragedy led to her heroic work, this image hides her dark history of abuse. How was Lisa able to keep her felony conviction for poisoning and suffocating her infant daughter hidden? How did her children slip through the cracks of the healthcare and legal systems again and again? What really happened to her son Collin?

    Season Six breaks a story that is years in the making and made possible through the astounding courage of Mishelle Roberts. This season ties together many elements introduced in previous seasons: ways that systems fail vulnerable victims, the culture of silence and inaction within hospitals that enables abuse, and the damage done to rare disease advocacy and victims’ groups which can devastate families and echo through generations.

    ***


    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/


    View our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/


    Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/


    Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI


    To support the show, go to http://Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-should-believe-me/id1615637188) where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content.


    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit http://MunchausenSupport.com


    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Case Files 21: Rady Children’s Part 5 Jun 05, 2025
    Show notes

    This week, Andrea and Dr. Bex dive into the controversial Dr. Paolo Bolognese, a neurosurgeon with a significant number of malpractice lawsuits and explore his role in the Rady Children's lawsuit.

    Andrea and Dr. Bex also highlight the complexities of medical malpractice, particularly in neurosurgery, emphasizing the risks associated with experimental procedures and the importance of informed consent. They also explore a darker side of medicine—where financial incentives might be shaping decisions more than patient outcomes and niche specialists become gatekeepers to high-risk surgeries. The conversation culminates in a whistleblower complaint that reveals systemic issues within the field.

    ***

    This podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.

    ***

    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Case Files 20: Rady Children’s Part 4 with Dr. Mary Sanders May 29, 2025
    Show notes

    In the 4th part of our Case Files series on Rady Children’s, Andrea and Dr. Mary Sanders from Stanford University deep dive into the emotional and legal complexities of child abuse cases. They unpack how surveillance in hospital settings—while potentially life-saving—raises big questions around privacy and consent. The conversation also explores the difficult dynamics of teenage victims, how hard these cases are to diagnose, and why the trust between parents and healthcare providers is often the first casualty.

    Andrea and Mary also examine how conspiracy theories infiltrate the courtroom and public opinion, warping our understanding of child welfare. From the strain on therapists to the trauma carried by kids in foster care and legal battles, this episode is a raw, thoughtful look at what happens when the system meant to protect children is itself under pressure.

    ***

    This podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.

    ***

    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Case Files 19: Rady Children's Part 3 May 15, 2025
    Show notes

    We left off in the previous episode with Madison Meyer being returned to her parents after more than a year in state custody—yet still hospitalized at Rady Children’s Hospital in San Diego. Today, Andrea and Bex unpack the complaint filed by her parents in 2021 and Madison’s own 2024 lawsuit.

    *please note that this episode contains mentions of suicide and sexual assault of a minor.

    For resources please go to:

    RAINN https://rainn.org/

    International Association for Suicide Prevention: https://www.iasp.info

    ***

    This podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.

    ***

    Follow Dr. Bex on instagram: @secretdoctorbex

    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    S03 Ep07 RERUN: Trial of the Century May 09, 2025
    Show notes

    We're rereleasing an episode from our original coverage of the Kowalski case that was published on 11/7/2023.

    ***

    With a verdict in the case days away, host Andrea Dunlop unpacks some of what’s happened so far in the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens trial with lawyer and trial consultant Jonathan Leach. They analyze the dueling opening statements, consider what each side is likely to look for in jurors, and which of the charges—if any—might be most viable.

    Andrea shares insights on the lawyers after watching their interactions in court. She also weighs in on the extensive medical testimony so far, including a major revelation about the origins of Maya's controversial CRPS diagnosis. We also share a chilling account of Maya’s ketamine coma that was shared in court via missives written by Beata herself.

    As both sides begin their closing arguments Andrea weighs the merits of what each side has told the jury and considers what the ramifications of the imminent verdict might be.

    ***

    To support the show, subscribe on ⁠Apple Podcast⁠s or go to ⁠Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe⁠ where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial.

    Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: ⁠@andreadunlop⁠

    Buy Andrea’s ⁠books here⁠.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit ⁠MunchausenSupport.com⁠

    Download the ⁠APSAC's practice guidelines here⁠.

    ***

    Click ⁠here⁠ to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


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