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    True Crime

    Nobody Should Believe Me

    Author Andrea Dunlop is looking for answers. When her older sister was first investigated for Munchausen by Proxy abuse more than a decade ago, it tore her family apart. This catastrophic series of events sent Dunlop on a journey to understand this most taboo form of abuse. In this groundbreaking podcast, she talks to some of the top experts in the world to explore the criminology and psychopathology behind Munchausen by Proxy and to reveal the wide swath of destruction these perpetrators leave in their wake.
    In each season, Dunlop investigates a case: speaking to friends, family members, doctors, law enforcement, child protection workers, and experts. Nobody Should Believe Me unravels these complex and terrifying stories, shedding light on an unspeakable crime.
    “A rich and harrowing chronicle of the condition.” –The New York Times
    ​ ​ (LM032423)

    Advertise

    Copyright: © 2022

    • Apple Podcasts
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    • Spotify

    Latest Episodes:
    True Story Media Presents: Affirmative Murder Sep 18, 2025
    Show notes

    We’re kicking off our new series introducing the shows of True Story Media, Andrea’s ethical true crime network. In this conversation, Andrea sits down with Alvin, the host and creator of Affirmative Murder, to talk about the wild landscape of podcasting in 2025. They dive into questions of diversity and representation, the ethics of telling real-life stories, and what’s at stake when we shine a spotlight on tragedy.

    From unpacking the recent P. Diddy trial and its ripple effects in the media, to reflecting on the bravery of Erica Pratt—a young girl who escaped a kidnapping—Andrea and Alvin explore how true crime intersects with politics, parenting, and the stories we choose to tell.

    ***

    Listen to Affirmative Murder: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/affirmative-murder/id1296864488

    Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    S06 E10: Ripple Effects Sep 11, 2025
    Show notes

    This week, we hear more from Mishelle about the impact of The Guthy Jackson Foundation’s response to the revelations about Lisa McDaniel is having on her family. We examine how Lisa’s long tenure with the foundation shaped research, messaging, and trust in the NMO community, and what it means when one person’s deception ripples out so far.

    We also hear from listener Bekah Rhea, whose perspective as both a researcher and someone living with a disability adds a sharp lens to the caretaker narrative at the center of so many advocacy efforts.

    ***

    This episode discusses allegations and interpretations based on court records, public documents, interviews, and reporting. All organizations and individuals mentioned have been given the opportunity to respond, and their statements are included where provided. Nothing here should be taken as a claim of personal culpability beyond what has been legally or publicly established.

    ***

    Justice for Collin: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit

    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    S06 E09: Fallout Sep 05, 2025
    Show notes

    As the story of the McDaniel family continues to send shockwaves through the communities Lisa was involved with, we check in with Mishelle about what else has come to light and what her mother has been up to since the season aired.

    We take a deeper dive into the of role of The Guthy Jackson Foundation–Lisa’s former employer– and cover how they’ve responded to the news about Lisa.

    We also speak to Rob Reich, Professor of Political Science at Stanford University and author of Just Giving: Why Philanthropy Is Failing Democracy and How It Can Do Better–to give us context for foundations like Guthy-Jackson and why we should pay attention to them.

    ***

    This episode discusses allegations and interpretations based on court records, public documents, interviews, and reporting. All organizations and individuals mentioned have been given the opportunity to respond, and their statements are included where provided. Nothing here should be taken as a claim of personal culpability beyond what has been legally or publicly established.

    ***

    Read Just Giving by Rob Reich: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691183497/just-giving

    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Case Files 24: Women Who Lead Double Lives with Sarah Treleaven Aug 28, 2025
    Show notes

    Today we have a very special crossover episode with journalist and host/producer of The Con: Katilyn’s Baby, Sarah Treleaven. Sarah and Andrea recount how they met many years ago and the similarities in their work with Munchausen and Munchausen adjacent stories. Sarah reveals a personal story about how she got into this line of work.

    Kaitlyn’s Baby, is about a woman that had been serially fabricating pregnancies, contacting doulas, and once they had agreed to help, taking them through a series of escalating crises. Andrea and Sarah dive into the depth of emotional betrayal experienced by the victims in this case and the thrill of deception experienced by these perpetrators. Sarah talks about the lack of framework in the criminal justice system for someone who has not been physically harmed or cheated out of their money or property, as well as the complicated questions that arise for her as she investigates these cases.

    ***

    Listen to The Con: Kaitlyn’s Baby: https://podcasts.apple.com/at/podcast/the-con-kaitlyns-baby/id1663956121

    Order Andrea’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Case Files 23: Mike Weber Retirement Special Aug 21, 2025
    Show notes

    Welcome to the Mike Weber Retirement Special! Mike gives us a brief glimpse into what he’s been up to since retirement and talks to Andrea about his experience publishing their co-authored novel, The Mother Next Door. Andrea asks Mike to give his thoughts on the Lisa McDaniel case from a law enforcement perspective, and he details his outreach to the Birmingham Police Department, stressing the importance of public pressure for an investigation.

    Then, we hear a clip from a 2023 training he did - demonstrative of the push back within criminal justice agencies when it comes to medical child abuse. Mike also gives an update on Mary Welch’s burgeoning political career.

    ***

    Mike Weber Consulting

    Justice for Collin: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit

    Order Andrea and Mike’s book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    NSBM After Hours: Anatomy of Lies Part 1 Aug 15, 2025
    Show notes

    We're unlocking an episode from the subscriber feed. Enjoy!

    ***

    This is the first part of Andrea and Dr. Bex’s coverage of the Peacock documentary series “Anatomy of Lies”. The show dives into the story of Elisabeth Finch, who was best known as a head writer on “Grey’s Anatomy”, and the lies that her life was built on. In their conversation about the first part of this docuseries, Andrea and Dr. Bex discuss Munchausen syndrome, the impact of false narratives in storytelling, particularly when it comes to claims of personal trauma, and how Finch’s claims intersected with the public discourse of the Me Too era.

    ***

    Listen to the rest of this series: https://www.patreon.com/collection/1433425

    Watch “Anatomy of Lies”: https://www.peacocktv.com/watch-online/tv/anatomy-of-lies/6024435431465947112

    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    S06 E08: May He Rest Aug 07, 2025
    Show notes

    In our season finale, Andrea comes face-to-face with Lisa McDaniel, the woman at the center of this story when she arrives on her doorstep with television journalist Meredith Anderson to request an interview.

    As they process the revealing conversation with Mishelle, they reflect on the ripple effects that this story has already had on the McDaniel family, and for Lisa’s former employer, the Guthy-Jackson Foundations.

    Drawing parallels between Collin’s case and that of Olivia Gant, Andrea speaks with Melissa Kalish, the lead detective in the investigation of Kelly Turner, Olivia’s mother for insight and, perhaps, a roadmap.

    Mishelle reflects on what justice would mean for her, as she and her aunt Sabrina reclaim their memories of Collin.

    ***

    Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit

    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    ***

    This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources.

    The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources.

    Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes.

    This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant.

    These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization.

    The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections.

    Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    S06 E07: Cleaning Out the Basement Jul 31, 2025
    Show notes

    Mishelle recounts how she and her sister, Angellyn, stumbled upon their past medical and court records while helping Lisa and Carey move. This discovery prompted the sisters to reach out to people who could offer a perspective unfiltered by their mother’s influence: Judy, the PICU nurse who once treated Angellyn, and Bea Yorker, the Munchausen by proxy expert who testified against Lisa more than twenty years ago.

    ***

    Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit

    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    ***

    This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources.

    The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources.

    Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes.

    This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant.

    These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization.

    The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections.

    Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    S06 E06: Dr. Ness Jul 24, 2025
    Show notes

    On this week’s episode, we hear Mishelle’s phone call with Dr. Jayne Ness, Collin’s treating physician, who shares concerning insights into Collin’s treatment—notably, that she was never certain Collin had NMO and that she had serious concerns for abuse. Andrea then speaks with Dr. Kenneth Feldman, a Child Abuse Pediatrician and Clinical Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Washington, about how physicians become entangled with Munchausen by Proxy perpetrators. Dr. Feldman also discusses the online behavior of perpetrators.

    Andrea then traces Lisa’s advocacy efforts following Collin’s death, starting with a now-defunct 501(c)(3) organization and eventually leading to her work with the Guthy Jackson Foundation. Mishelle goes on to describe how, after Collin’s passing, Lisa began faking her own illness.

    ***

    Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit

    Andrea’s August 1st event with Gregg Olsen: https://www.libertybaybooks.com/event/west-sound-crime-con-2025-local-authors-gregg-olsen-and-andrea-dunlop

    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    ***

    This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources.

    The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources.

    Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes.

    This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant.

    These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization.

    The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections.

    Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    S06 E05: “But she’s my mama” Jul 17, 2025
    Show notes

    As Lisa escalates Collin’s medication regimen and pushing for risky experimental treatments, we examine the gulf between Lisa’s reports of Collin’s symptoms and known cases of NMO.

    We also see the beginning of Lisa’s connection to the Guthy Jackson Foundation, a high-profile non-profit, dedicated to NMO awareness and research. Collin’s condition rapidly declines, and he is placed on hospice care. Sabrina and Mishelle share heartbreaking memories of Collin’s final days, offering a deeply emotional and personal perspective on this tragic chapter.

    ***

    If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 or visit https://988lifeline.org/

    ***

    Justice for Collin: Contact Birmingham PD

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tEg2mpbrwNJnuVMNdbHANCofEFYvH9_bO5MULHUxqLs/edit

    Andrea’s August 1st event with Gregg Olsen: https://www.libertybaybooks.com/event/west-sound-crime-con-2025-local-authors-gregg-olsen-and-andrea-dunlop

    Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy.

    Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show!

    Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content.

    Follow Andrea on Instagram: @andreadunlop

    Buy Andrea's books here.

    For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com

    The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.

    ***

    This season covers sensitive subject matter involving allegations of child abuse, medical child abuse (also known as Munchausen by proxy), and the death of a minor. All information presented is based on court records, first-person interviews, contemporaneous documentation, and publicly available sources.

    The podcast includes personal statements and perspectives from individuals directly involved in or affected by these events. These accounts represent their experiences and interpretations, and some statements reflect opinions that may be emotionally charged. Where appropriate, the reporting team has verified claims through official records or corroborating sources.

    Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted as a legal conclusion or diagnosis. All subjects are presumed innocent unless convicted in a court of law. This podcast is intended for informational and public interest purposes.

    This podcast contains audio excerpts from two phone conversations recorded in the states of Georgia and Alabama, respectively. Both recordings were obtained by a third-party source, who acted in accordance with the relevant one-party consent laws of those states, which allow for the lawful recording of a conversation with the consent of one participant.

    These recordings were subsequently shared with the producers of this podcast after the fact, and were not made by or at the direction of the podcast team or its parent organization.

    The podcast producers have made good-faith efforts to confirm the legal compliance of the original recordings, and are presenting these materials in the context of public interest reporting. The inclusion of this audio is intended for journalistic, educational, and documentary purposes in alignment with the principles of fair use and First Amendment protections.

    Listeners are advised that the views expressed in the recordings are those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or affiliated entities.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


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