New York City Bar Association Podcast

Latest Episodes:

Pathway to the Profession, a Landscape of Exclusion Nov 10, 2023

Show notes

Why do you have to take the LSAT to get into law school? Is the modern Bar Exam the best way to protect the public and sort bar admission applicants? Why is the law school curriculum designed the way that it is? What does it mean to have the character and fitness to be a lawyer? Many lawyers take for granted that the answers to these questions are settled. The assumption is that these institutions help us select only the best and the brightest to enter the legal profession. In this episode of the City Bar Podcast, two academic experts help us probe those assumptions. They unpack the history, structure and outcomes of these institutions of selection. And they tease out the many interconnected ways in which the status quo functionally excludes people from underrepresented communities from entering the legal profession. Tune in to learn about: • How standardized tests that claim to predict law school success sort significantly based on economic class and race. • How the Bar Exam still in use today has historical roots in purposeful exclusion. • How Black and Latinx students get less financial aid and more debt on their paths through law school. • How legal education is largely set up to benefit people who come in knowing something about the law and “legal culture,” to the detriment of first-generation lawyers. • How character and fitness standards have historically largely reflected the bigotry and biases of the era. • How the legal profession can begin to reverse course and make these institutions work to include more people with the motivation, intelligence, skills, talent and commitment to becoming a lawyer. Resources: Sealing the Leaks: Recommendations to Diversify and Strengthen the Pipeline to the Legal Profession: https://bit.ly/3I1eNFS The Diversity Gap: Black and Latinx Representation Disparities in the Legal Pipeline: https://bit.ly/3ssibFP Building Belonging Podcast: https://apple.co/3SAgnp6 Radical Reformation: Diverse Pathways to Attorney Licensure Will Yield a More Diverse Profession: https://bit.ly/460jNEw Professor Carla Pratt’s Book – The End of the Pipeline: A Journey of Recognition for African Americans Entering the Legal Profession: https://bityl.co/LqhD Professor Joan Howarth’s Book – Shaping the Bar: The Future of Attorney Licensing: https://bityl.co/LqhC College Admissions Tests and Socioeconomic/Racial Discrimination: https://bityl.co/Lqf4 Robert J. Steinberg’s Study of Admissions Testing Efficacy: https://bit.ly/3u7nATc Examining the California Cut Score: An Empirical Analysis of Minimum Competency, Public Protection, Disparate Impact, and National Standards: https://bityl.co/Lqf6 Building a Better Bar: The Twelve Building Blocks of Minimum Competence: https://bit.ly/40xrd15 Final Report of the Testing Task Force for the NexGen Bar Exam: https://bit.ly/3QPNZ0B Lawyer Licensing Resources: Exploring Ways to License Lawyers Now and in the Future: https://bit.ly/469xb9p Access a transcript of this episode here: https://bit.ly/40wHKCa

Asset Tokenization and Blockchain Oct 12, 2023

Show notes

Robert Schwinger and Hector Ivan Velez are Co-Chairs of the Distributed Ledger Technology and Blockchain Subcommittee of the City Bar Task Force on Digital Technologies. They unpacked four key use cases for asset tokenization – real estate, art, commodities and carbon credits – in order to cover the basics of tokenization, the potential for democratizing access to investment opportunity, and the barriers to adoption. Tune in to hear about:  • How tokenization could open global markets in some assets • How courts have treated tokenized assets • The risks presented by the tokenization of assets • The legal and regulatory challenges to adoption of asset tokenization

Mastering Business Development Strategy Sep 15, 2023

Show notes

Adrienne Woods, a member of the City Bar’s Social Networking and Events Committee, sat down with Bruce Libman, a master business-development strategist, to unpack the fundamentals of effective networking that will generate business for lawyers. Tune in to hear about: • How effective networking is the process of opening yourself up to authentically engage others • Practical examples of effective networking questions, planning and followup strategies • Tips for developing and honing networking techniques

Web3 - The World of Decentralized Tech Aug 10, 2023

Show notes

Beth Haddock and Lewis Cohen are Co-Chairs of the Web3 Subcommittee of the City Bar Task Force on Digital Technologies, and they’re experts in the world of Web3, decentralized finance (DeFi), blockchain and cryptocurrency technologies. They helped us understand how the world of decentralized technologies is taking shape, what problems are being discussed and discovered by innovators, and where we stand to benefit from future breakthroughs. Tune in to hear about: • Takeaways for lawyers from two recent, major reports of the international Financial Stability Board. What lawyers could use in their practice and what they should think about when they think of developments in Web3. • What is DeFi (decentralized finance) and what are DAOs (decentralized autonomous organizations)? How do we know when a project truly fits into these spaces? • What are the incentives and differences between traditional finance and decentralized finance? • What are the potential benefits of decentralized finance? • What are reliable and reputable resources for people who want to learn more about decentralized finance? Resources FSB Report - https://bityl.co/KOlC US Treasury illicit finance report - https://bityl.co/KOlA DeFi Alliance - https://bityl.co/KOl9 DeFi Education Fund - https://bityl.co/KOl8 Ethereum Foundation - https://bityl.co/KOl7 Vitalik Buterin blog - https://bityl.co/KOl5 Beth and Lewis' Twitters - @HaddockBeth; @NYcryptolawyer

The ChatGPT Case (Mata v. Avianca, Inc.) and AI in Courts: A Closer Look Aug 01, 2023

Show notes

A story of artificial intelligence, fabricated precedent, and a litigation gone awry that made cringeworthy headlines even outside the legal world. In Mata v. Avianca a lawyer submitted a brief in federal court citing precedent that ChatGPT had spun out of thin air. Three members of the City Bar Working Group on Judicial Administration and Artificial Intelligence break down how it happened and what we can learn about the use of artificial intelligence in courts. Tune in to hear Harut Minasian, Richard Hong and Stuart Levi discuss: • How did the judge in the case deal with the fact pattern that emerged and how were the lawyers in question held accountable for their actions? • Is there now a greater duty of oversight for lawyers in the new AI context? • When is AI-generated material an aid for human work and when is it a source? • How should lawyers responsibly disclose their use of AI tools to the court? • What rules are judges around the country making about the disclosure of AI tools used in their courtrooms?

Building Belonging: The Legal Accountability Project Jul 28, 2023

Show notes

Aliza Shatzman is President and Founder of the Legal Accountability Project, a nonprofit aimed at extending support and resources to law clerks to ensure that they have a positive clerkship experience. Aliza talks about the mistreatment that she experienced as a law clerk. Her experience led her to discover the shocking lack of labor protections for clerks and the enormous power disparity between clerks and judges. Aliza was ultimately inspired to take on the deeply entrenched status quo in the clerking system. Tune in to hear about: • The power dynamic that exists today which gives judges the power to mistreat clerks and potentially derail their clerks’ careers • How law schools and their clerkship offices have been complicit in protecting bad actors and withholding information about bad judges from clerkship applicants • How Aliza has improved accountability for judges and raised awareness in the community of law clerks • What law clerks experiencing mistreatment can do to get help • What changes need to be made to improve working conditions for clerks • The centralized clerkship database created by the Legal Accountability Project that democratizes information about judges and clerkships: https://bityl.co/K4ND You can read Aliza’s testimony to the House Committee on the Judiciary here: https://bityl.co/K6EO DEIB for the People – a Collection of DEIB Content for Your Screens Mary Ellen – Radical Queer Witches (https://bityl.co/K6EV) Angie – Women Talking (https://amz.run/6vjB) Tanya – Wednesday (https://bityl.co/K6EW) a recommendation to watch and to investigate bias: (https://bityl.co/K6Ei)

This Lawyer's Life: Ellen Holloman - Partner, Cadwalader Jul 21, 2023

Show notes

A brand new professional development podcast from the City Bar where we talk with lawyers about seizing opportunities, learning lessons the hard way, and about what makes them tick. Search for the This Lawyer's Life feed wherever you listen and subscribe! Gregory Binstock, City Bar Director of Professional Development, sits down with Ellen Holloman, a Partner in Cadwalader’s Global Litigation Group. Tune in to learn more about: • How learning flows both ways in Ellen’s mentor/mentee relationship • How leaders should approach lessons in DEI that come from a new generation of attorneys who are at the bottom of the firm hierarchy • How Ellen has navigated unsupportive encounters while seeking supportive spaces • How DEI contributes to winning litigation • How Ellen makes pro bono and service core elements of her career

What to Make of It: The Great AI Retooling — with Professor Anthony E. Davis Jun 29, 2023

Show notes

Heather Hatcher is Chair of the City Bar’s Health Law Committee and a public health policy advocate. Roland Trope is a Partner at Trope and Schramm LLP and an Adjunct Professor in the Departments of Law and of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. Heather and Roland interviewed Anthony E. Davis, Of Counsel at Clyde and Co. US and an international expert on professional responsibility. They discuss the transformations that AI tools will make to legal services, and they consider the challenges to evaluating and deploying those tools on behalf of the client. • How will AI tools change the landscape of legal services? • How can lawyers and law firms evaluate AI tools that purport to be applicable to individual use cases? • What are the risks of using AI tools for legal services? • How much technological expertise do lawyers need to have? • Who is liable for mistakes made by AI tools? • What are the ethical risks for lawyers using AI tools? This interview was recorded on March 30, several weeks before the widespread reportage (https://bityl.co/JXfC) of the problems in Mata v. Avianca involving the misuse of the OpenAI application ChatGPT-4 that led to the submission of filings with the US District Court for the Southern District of New York citing and quoting fake cases.

Building Belonging: Recession-Proofing Commitments to DEIB Jun 22, 2023

Show notes

Ankura Consulting Group is a management consulting firm with over two thousand employees advising corporations in various industries and sectors e.g. cybersecurity, construction, litigation and human resources. Shawn Miles' and Patricia Rodriguez’s social-impact team helps companies ask themselves difficult questions about their own environments and values so that they can make sure that their people feel accepted, welcome and able to show up as themselves. Patricia and Shawn speak about being intentional with Belonging, about building strategies and spaces for people to be honest and sometimes uncomfortable. They helped us understand the ways in which building psychological safety to get things wrong can be tantamount to building psychological safety to really try and get things right. The Building Belonging crew carries this idea into a discussion about how to persevere in the face of an “anti-woke” movement that seeks to co-opt and undermine DEIB ideals. Tanya, Angie and Mary Ellen talk with Shawn and Patricia about how to be prepared for “anti-woke” arguments that are made in bad faith and how to keep the DEIB conversation going on a productive track. They also delve into the implications of these strategies in the political atmosphere of anti-woke, anti-DEIB regulations. The data shows that organizations that succeed in DEIB also outperform their competitors financially. Patricia and Shawn talk about how improving DEIB improves organizational decision-making and makes companies more responsive to increasingly-diverse customer bases. Nevertheless, when recession happens and businesses need to make cuts, DEIB initiatives are often first on the block. Shawn and Patricia shared some of the talking points and strategies that they have used to remind companies that DEIB is good for long-term, sustainable growth as well as for retention of the top talent. DEIB for the People – a Collection of DEIB Content for Your Screens Angie – Milk (https://amz.run/6oME) Mary Ellen – So You Want to Talk about Race? (https://amz.run/6oMF) Tanya – Overruling Grutter: What Does Ending Affirmative Action Mean for Voluntary DEI Workplace (https://bityl.co/JQIr)

The Task Force on Digital Technologies Jun 14, 2023

Show notes

Jerome Walker, Lorraine McGowen and Edward So are Co-Chairs of a new City Bar Task Force on Digital Technologies. They introduce the Task Force, its objectives, its work so far, and its vision for the future.

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