Show notes
Today I talked to Avgi Saketopoulou about her book Sexuality Beyond Consent: Risk, Race, Traumatophilia (NYU Press, 2023).
My conversation with Dr. Saketopoulou begins in the clinic “one of the most scary and difficult places one can find oneself in” she says because it is in the consulting room that sometimes things “become traumatic for the first time.” It is here that Saketopoulou first shares her affection for “early radical psychoanalytic thinking” which
“put a lot of faith on the possibilities that come from that wounding and from the kind of potentialities that can arise in something becoming kind of like opening up in the consulting room into pain, as opposed to what we are mostly turning towards to as a field in ways that I find both distressing and disappointing, like the idea of healing wounds, of closing up injuries, as if we could ever do that anyway, which I think we can't, rather than embracing or giving ourselves over to what I think is both the insurgent and most interesting radical potential of psychoanalytic treatments in in getting to that place where sort of like injury, wound, like the past opens up to become not just something that we lived through or something that we were told about, but something that becomes yours.”
As clinicians we are susceptible to counter transferential enactments when we cooperate with terms such as damage and “too muchnesss”. To engage with these concepts without considering what they imply risks missing “the way in which whiteness is smuggled into our theories.” “This idea of damage implies the idea of intactness” an idea, says Saketopoulou, “allied with whiteness.” When considering what might be considered “too much” she asks us to “move us away from the almost moralizing concern that psychoanalysis has had about too muchness as if there is a way to do kind of like the Goldilocks measurement of like not too not too much, just right.”
Our discussion moved easily from the clinic, to a theoretical "geeking out" over how her concept of overwhelm is “not in the purview of the repetition compulsion” to “social contract theory 101”
During the interview, reference is made to the original 1905 edition of Freud’s Three Essays. Here, Saketopoulou relates to Freud as one might to an aging rock star; preferring their earlier work. She argues that this original text will help us live and practice a “psychoanalysis that is worth fighting for” and what “it means to take seriously, these kinds of entanglements with violence, with trauma, without seeking to make them disappear or to reduce them by, quote unquote, understanding them.”
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