Makdisi Street

“The problem has always been that Israel is above the law" w/ Nimer Sultany Dec 16, 2024

The brothers welcome Nimer Sultany, a Reader in Public Law at SOAS University of London. They discuss the difference between the hypocrisy of the Western liberal legal order versus the Western liberal abandonment of its own international order to protect Israel, the imperatives of justice in Syria at a time of injustice in Palestine, the ICC and ICJ cases, the fact that South Africa stopped appealing to the ICJ earlier this year, the idea of law as a site of struggle, the need to prevent instead of simply documenting genocide after the fact, and Western and liberal genocide denial.

Check out his recent article "A Threshold Crossed: On Genocidal Intent and the Duty to Prevent Genocide in Palestine" https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14623528.2024.2351261

ICJ Case against Israeli apartheid https://www.icj-cij.org/case/186 ICC Palestine https://www.icc-cpi.int/palestine

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Date of recording: December 10, 2024.

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"Palestine will be liberated in Arabic" w/ Fady Joudah Nov 29, 2024

The brothers welcome National Book Award for Poetry Finalist Fady Joudah (@fadyjoudah) for a searing and intimate discussion of Palestine in English versus Palestine in Arabic, about writing poetry in a time of genocide, about the limits and hubris of solidarity, about the necessity of common decency in the face of horror, and about the meaning of Palestinian love confronting the Israeli inferno of annihilation.

Featuring a powerful reading of "Dedication" from his latest book [...] published by Milkweed Editions in 2024.

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Date of recording: November 6, 2024.

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“The beautiful thing about the truth is that it’s easy” w/ Ta-Nehisi Coates Nov 18, 2024

Ta-Nehisi Coates joins the brothers for a wide-ranging discussion drawing on his new book, The Message (2024), and covering the parallels and differences between the Black American and Palestinian experiences, the culture of denial suppressing the realities of the system of apartheid in Palestine, the challenges of gaining access to Palestinian voices, the power of conveying the raw reality of Palestinian life under apartheid tactics of resistance to oppression, and the historical contours of the Palestinian liberation struggle.

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Date of recording: Oct 14, 2024.

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"The first foothold in a much broader liberation" w/ Tareq Baconi Nov 13, 2024

The brothers welcome analyst Tareq Baconi, author of Hamas Contained (Stanford University Press, 2018) and president of the board of Al-Shabaka. One year into the Gaza genocide, they discuss the emergence Hamas and its role in the Palestinian political polity, its sweeping electoral victory in Gaza in 2006 as well as its subsequent governance in Gaza and attempts to contain its growth through blockade. They explore how October 7th upended the entire strategic alignments of the Western imperialist powers that are part of Israeli apartheid structure.

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Date of recording: Oct 15, 2024.

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"The other guy is more genocidal" w/ Mehdi Hasan Nov 02, 2024

The Brothers welcome journalist and founder of Zeteo, Mehdi Hasan (@mehdirhasan) to the pod. They have a spirited discussion about anti-Arab and anti-Muslim bias in the mainstream media, the price of compromise to gain access, and whether voting for Harris is a vote against fascism or a vote endorsing genocide.

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Date of recording: Oct 22, 2024.

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“Code 31: Arab Americans and the zone of danger" w/ Maya Berry Oct 24, 2024

Maya Berry (@imayaberry), Executive Director of the Arab American Institute, joins the brothers for a wide-ranging conversation covering anti-Arab racism in the United States, hate crime tracking, the location of Arab Americans in the US racial lexicon, and the impossible position Arab Americans find themselves in the build-up to the 2024 presidential election.

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Date of recording: Oct 10, 2024.

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“One of my recurring fears is that people will move on” w/ Laila Al-Arian Oct 14, 2024

The brothers welcome Laila al-Arian, executive producer for the Al Jazeera English documentary series Fault Lines. They discuss the anti-Palestinian, anti-Arab and anti-Muslim orthodoxies of the mainstream Western media, the coverage of the genocide in Gaza, the dissenting spaces opened up by critical alternative and social media, and Laila’s harrowing documentary The Night Won’t End that tracks the ordeals of 3 Palestinian families in Gaza, including the family of six-year old Hind Rajab who was killed by Israel. Are there actual prospects for changing the narrative framework on Palestine and the Palestinians?

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Date of recording: Oct 3, 2024.

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“The most immoral and unethical army in the world" w/ Elijah Magnier Oct 06, 2024

The brothers welcome the war correspondent Elijah Magnier (@ejmalrai) to the show to discuss the expansion of Israel’s war on civilians to Lebanon, as well as the tactical and strategic challenges and opportunities in confronting it on the ground and the implications of Iran’s direct intervention in what is already a regional war.

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Date of recording: Oct 4, 2024.

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"President Biden is negotiating with himself" w/ Trita Parsi Sep 28, 2024

The brothers welcome Trita Parsi (@tparsi), co-founder and Executive Vice president of the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, to discuss the three-way relationship between the US, Israel, and Iran, the pathetic state of US diplomacy, the role of the Zionist lobby in defining US interests, and the consequences of any potential Iranian military intervention.

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Date of recording: Sept 26, 2024.

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"They want people to routinize the massacre of Palestinians" Sep 18, 2024

The brothers discuss the latest developments from the Gaza genocide, the murder of American citizen Ayşenur Ezgi Eygi followed by the wholesale media silence around it, and to what degree the US is calling the shots over the looming regional war.

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Date of recording: Sept 11, 2024.

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"A society built on the ashes of another will always be violent" w/ Yara Hawari Sep 10, 2024

The brothers welcome Yara Hawari (@yarahawari), Co-director of Al-Shabaka, to discuss how the Oslo Accords transformed Palestinian civic life, the emergence of the PA from the PLO, the significance of the increasing number of political and social ruptures among Zionist settlers, and what role the Global South can play in the movement to liberate Palestine.

This episode is co-published with Al-Shabaka's Rethinking Palestine podcast

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Date of recording: Sept 2, 2024.

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"Many of us can't think about anything but Palestine" w/ Tariq Ali Aug 18, 2024

The brothers welcome distinguished writer, novelist, and intellectual of the New Left Review Tariq Ali to Makdisi Street. They discuss the similarities and differences between the anti-Vietnam war demonstrations of the 1960s and 1970s and contemporary demonstrations against the ongoing Israeli genocide in Gaza; the role of the U.S. empire and global capitalism as a bitter opponent of popular liberation globally; the loss of India as opposed to gaining South Africa on the question of Palestine, the significance of the huge divergence between U.S. and British politics on Palestine and popular sentiment in both countries, the question of whether there is still a Global South, the loss of the hegemony of Zionism in the West evidenced by both mass student protests and the overt repression of these students, Biden’s delusional contention that he has done more than anyone to help the Palestinians, the question of hope and realism, and the meaning of a new left for new generations.

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Date of recording: July 16, 2024.

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“Calm before the storm" Aug 05, 2024

The brothers gather in the garden of their family home in the mountains of Lebanon to discuss recent Israeli escalations and the possible consequences from Lebanon, Iran and elsewhere, following the Israeli bombings in Beirut and Tehran; the focus of the discussion is the fact that, despite inflicting massive and irreparable trauma on civilian life in Gaza, the Israelis have been sinking deeper and deeper into a losing war in Gaza, and may now be looking for a way to drag the US into a wider war to “save” themselves.

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Date of recording: August 3, 2024.

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"Camp David is a primordial document for the Egyptian political apparatus” w/ Lina Attalah Jul 18, 2024

The brothers welcome journalist Lina Attalah (@linaattalah), the co-founder and chief editor of MadaMasr, an independent online Egyptian newspaper. They discuss the current situation in Egypt, political despotism and the war on normal politics, media censorship, the question of Camp David and why the political and military elite are so wedded to it, the nature of Egyptian sovereignty in Sinai, and the popular as well as official attitude toward the genocide in Gaza and towards the Palestinian people.

Watch the episode on our YouTube channel Date of recording: June 18, 2024.

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"Partition was about creating a settler colonial state" w/ Abdel Razzaq Takriti (pt.2) Jul 11, 2024

The second half of the conversation between the brothers and historian Abdel Razzaq Takriti (@abedtakriti). In this part, they do a deep dive into the Oslo negotiations, the effect of the Camp David Agreement, Yasser Arafat’s leadership of the PLO, and why he signed the Oslo Accords. They also discuss the rise of Hamas and its significance within Palestinian politics and the long history of resistance.

Watch the episode on our YouTube channel Date of recording: June 11, 2024.

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(Preview) “98% of the UN has been condemning what Israel has done.” Jul 09, 2024

[Producer's note: This is a preview of the latest bonus episode of Makdisi Street. You can listen to the entire episode by subscribing to the Patreon for as low as $5 a month and get access to other great bonus content. Since we want to make as much content accessible as possible, we have unlocked this for the YouTube channel.]

The Brothers discuss the deceptive conflation of antizionism with antisemitism to shut down Palestinian solidarity, how a synagogue in LA was used by Zionists to sell properties in “Anglo” neighborhoods in occupied Palestine, and the escalating Israeli threats against Lebanon and Hizbullah amidst its ongoing genocide in Gaza. WikiLeaks "Collateral Murder" https://collateralmurder.wikileaks.org

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Date of recording: June 25, 2024.

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"Partition was about creating a settler colonial state" w/ Abdel Razzaq Takriti (pt.1) Jun 26, 2024

The brothers welcome historian Abdel Razzaq Takriti (@abedtakriti), the author of Monsoon Revolution: Republicans, Sultans, and Empires in Oman 1965-1976 (2016), “Before BDS: Lineages of Boycott in Palestine,” and co-creator of Thawra, a @thedigradio series on modern Arab and Palestinian revolutionary history. They take a deep dive into the history of Palestinian resistance in the 20th century, explore the difference between eliminationist and genocidal forms of settler colonialism, discuss the mutilation of Palestine in 1948 to make way for the last settler-colony in a world on the brink of an anti-colonial revolution, the subsequent rise of Fatah and the Palestine Liberation Organization, and the role of Arab states in helping and hindering the quest for Palestinian liberation.

Watch the episode on our YouTube channel Date of recording: June 11, 2024.

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“Universities are complicit in Palestinian unfreedom” w/ Maya Wind Jun 19, 2024

The brothers welcome Maya Wind, the author of Towers of Ivory and Steel, a searing critique of the Israeli academic establishment’s complicity in the regime of apartheid and genocide. They discuss the role played by Israeli universities in the establishment and maintenance of the Zionist project in Palestine, the nexus between universities and political repression and military violence, the appalling treatment of Professor Nadera Shalhoub-Kevorkian, and the urgent need for an academic boycott of the Israeli university system.

Towers of Ivory and Steel: How Israeli Universities Deny Palestinian Freedom (2024) https://www.versobooks.com/en-ca/products/3009-towers-of-ivory-and-steel

Watch the episode on our YouTube channel Date of recording: June 5, 2024.

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Debunking Zionist Myths #1 Jun 11, 2024

The brothers take on some of the most popular and entirely mendacious Zionist talking points and debunk them.

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Links mentioned in the episode

Relevant links

A.L. Tibawi, Anglo-Arab Relations and the Question of Palestine, 1914-21 (1971) George Antonius, The Arab Awakening (1938) Edward Said, The Question of Palestine (1992) Edward Said, “The Morning After” (1993) Avi Shlaim, Three Worlds (2024) Abdel Razzaq Takriti on Palestinian revolution Rashid Khalidi, Hundred Years War on Palestine (2020) Shira Robinson, Citizen Strangers (2013) Ilan Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (2007) Benny Morris, "Survival of the Fittest: An Interview with Benny Morris" (2004) Ella Shohat, On the Arab-Jew, Palestine, and Other Displacements (2017) Vladimir Jabotinsky, “The Iron Wall” (1923) Amnesty International, "Israel’s apartheid against Palestinians: Cruel system of domination and crime against humanity" (2022) B’Tselem, "A regime of Jewish supremacy from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea: This is apartheid" (2021) Original suppressed ESCWA report on apartheid. Israeli Practices towards the Palestinian People and the Question of Apartheid (2017) Orit Bashkin, Impossible Exodus (2017) Saree Makdisi, Tolerance Is a Wasteland: Palestine and the Culture of Denial (2024) Ussama Makdisi, Age of Coexistence: The Ecumenical Frame and the Making of the Modern Arab World (2021) UN OCHA Map of West Bank and other OPT.

Date of recording: May 28, 2024.

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“Israel is becoming a burden to those who support it" w/ Mouin Rabbani May 30, 2024

The brothers welcome the political analyst Mouin Rabbani (@MouinRabbani) to the show to discuss the broader implications of Israel’s genocidal campaign in Gaza, the loss of Israeli military credibility, the implications of the recent ICJ and ICC decisions for Israel’s growing global isolation, and the growing sense that we may be at an inflection point in the Zionist conflict with the Palestinian people as Israel becomes more of a liability than an asset, politically, militarily and electorally.

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Date of recording: May 21, 2024.

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"A Special Relationship" w/ Stephen Walt May 20, 2024

The brothers welcome Professor Stephen Walt to the show to discuss US foreign policy in the Middle East, the role of the Israel lobby in influencing US decision-making, and how all these dynamics may develop in the wake of Israel’s genocidal campaign in Gaza.

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Date of recording: May 14, 2024.

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“The Gulf, the Arab metropoles and shifting patterns of power” w/ Elham Fakhro May 08, 2024

The brothers welcome Elham Fakhro to the show to discuss the shifting patterns of relations between the states of the Arab Gulf and the established metropoles of the Arab world, the interplay of education and political transformation, the trend towards normalization with the Zionist state and recent developments in attitudes towards and relationships with Iran.

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Date of recording: Apr 23, 2024.

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"The process of liberation is irresistible and irreversible" w/ Vijay Prashad May 01, 2024

The brothers welcome historian and journalist Vijay Prashad (@vijayprashad) to the show to discuss the emergence of Palestine as the keystone struggle of the Global South, the importance of the PLO, the question of sovereign national interests vs. solidarity with Palestinian liberation, and the radical student movements rising up across the West.

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Date of recording: April 30, 2024.

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“Learning how to be colonialists" w/ Rashid Khalidi Apr 24, 2024

The brothers welcome the historian Rashid Khalidi of Columbia University to the show to discuss the history of the Palestinian people’s struggle against the Zionist project in Palestine, the colonial affiliations of Zionism, the background to the 1948 Nakba, and the role of Arab and Palestinian leaders and forms of resistance in bringing about change.

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Date of recording: Apr 16, 2024.

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(Preview) "Distraction and Denial" Apr 17, 2024

[Producer's note: This is a preview of the latest bonus episode of Makdisi Street. You can listen to the entire episode by subscribing to the Patreon for as low as $5 a month and get access to other great bonus content. Since we want to make as much content accessible as possible, we have unlocked this for the YouTube channel.]

The brothers discuss the latest developments in and around Palestine, including European denial and complicity, the role of the ICJ and other systems of accountability in international politics, the possible expansion of the conflict, and whether dogs wag tails or tails wag dogs.

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Date of recording: Apr 13, 2024.

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"Famine is never a natural occurrence" w/ Michael Fakhri Apr 08, 2024

The brothers welcome to the show Michael Fakhri, UN Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food and Professor of Law at the University of Oregon, to discuss the ongoing starvation war against Gaza and how intentional law can be wielded to fight against it.

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Date of recording: Apr 3, 2024.

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“Stadiums are completely ungovernable spaces, spaces of liberation” w/ Tony Karon and Sean Jacobs Mar 29, 2024

The brothers welcome Tony Karon (@TonyKaron) and Sean Jacobs (@africasacountry) to the show to discuss their experience of the politics of sport in their native South Africa, the lessons that the country’s anti-apartheid struggle might have for the struggle for freedom in Palestine, and football as a potential site for galvanizing a broader boycott movement against Israel’s genocidal system of apartheid.

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Date of recording: March 22, 2024

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“Two sides of the same coin” Mar 20, 2024

The brothers discuss, among other things, Zionism and denial; Israel’s engineered starvation of Gaza; US-Israeli collaboration.

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Date of recording: March 19, 2024

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"A kind of intergenerational civil war" w/ Peter Beinart Mar 16, 2024

The brothers welcome Peter Beinart (@PeterBeinart) to the show to discuss the role of the Gaza genocide in the generational transformation taking place in the United States (including within Jewish communities across the country), as well as the campaign to redefine antisemitism to include criticism of Zionism and the Zionist state, and the many pathways leading from Zionism to democracy and freedom for all.

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Date of recording: March 12, 2024

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In solidarity with Nadera Shalhoub-Kevorkian Mar 16, 2024

The brothers reflect on the suspension of Nadera Shalhoub-Kevorkian for having committed herself to justice, equality, rights, freedom and love: principles which Zionist institutions and the Zionist state clearly find themselves to be incompatible.

Call to Action: Support academic freedom for Nadera Shalhoub-Kevorkian

https://mondoweiss.net/2024/03/call-to-action-support-academic-freedom-for-nadera-shalhoub-kevorkian/

Date of recording: March 15, 2024.

“There is so much love in Palestine" w/ Nadera Shalhoub-Kevorkian Mar 08, 2024

The brothers talk with Dr. Nadera Shalhoub-Kevorkian (link) about life under occupation in East Jerusalem, the scattering and reconstitution of Palestinian bodies and Palestine itself, and the affirmation of life and love that lie at the heart of the Palestinian struggle for freedom.

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Date of recording: March 6, 2024

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"The world has been lied to" w/ Chris Gunness Feb 28, 2024

The brothers interview Chris Gunness (@MyanmarAProject), former chief spokesperson for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), about journalistic coverage and distortion, the shaping of representation of Palestine, the work of the Agency, the moral responsibility of those funding it, and how calumnies spread by Zionist organizations about its workers provided a pretext for Western countries to cut their support.

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Date of recording: Feb 26, 2024

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“Every single Palestinian is traumatized" w/ Dr. Hanan Ashrawi Feb 21, 2024

The brothers welcome the Palestinian educator, political intellectual, and activist Dr. Hanan Ashrawi (@DrHananAshrawi) to discuss the political horizons after the trauma of Gaza, as well as the pitfalls of the so-called peace process, Oslo, the PLO vs PA, and moves to reform the PLO for the path to true liberation and self-determination.

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Date of recording: Feb 20, 2024

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"The purpose of lawfare is to distract us" w/ Dima Khalidi Feb 17, 2024

The brothers welcome Dima Khalidi, founder and director of Palestine Legal (@pal_legal), to the podcast to talk about the institutionalized Zionist assault on academic freedom and free speech in the United States as well as the convergence between the Zionist suppression of Palestinian rights advocacy on the one hand and right-wing reaction against the diversification of the university system in the US.

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Date of recording: Feb 15, 2024

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"They carried a memory in their head" w/ Dr. Salman Abu Sitta Feb 07, 2024

The brothers welcome to the show the preeminent scholar and Nakba survivor Dr. Salman Abu Sitta to discuss his personal journey after 1948, the relative simplicity of implementing UN resolution 194 for Palestinians to return to their lands, and his high hopes for younger generations.

Read his article, "I could have been one of those who broke through the siege on October 7" https://mondoweiss.net/2024/01/i-could-have-been-one-of-those-who-broke-through-the-siege-on-october-7/

Check out the Palestine Land Society https://www.plands.org/en/home

Watch this episode on YouTube

Date of recording: Feb 5, 2024

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"The ground zero of a liberated world is Palestine" w/ Robin DG Kelley Jan 30, 2024

The brothers invite the American historian Robin DG Kelley to the show to discuss the status and visibility of Palestine in Black American political culture from the 1940s through MLK and Malcolm X to Black Lives Matter and the present--and the ways in which Palestine remains one of the keys to a liberated world.

Date of recording: Jan 29, 2024.

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Music by Hadiiiiii

“The murder of our colleagues has to stop” w/ Jeremy Scahill Jan 24, 2024

The brothers welcome the investigative journalist, Intercept Senior Correspondent and Intercepted podcast host Jeremy Scahill (@jeremyscahill) to discuss the parameters of the media coverage of the genocide in Gaza and to reflect on the patterns, structures and limitations of Western corporate media as well as the growing alternatives to it.

Date of recording: Jan 23, 2024.

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Music by Hadiiiiii

“To think about Palestine is to be human” Jan 17, 2024

(Note: We are considering launching a Patreon feed to help defray the costs of producing this show, whereby for a low monthly rate, supporters will get access to different kinds of bonus content: a monthly Q&A, reposting of episodes hosts do with other podcasts, episodes featuring a single host interviewing guests, etc. We would love your feedback about this. Please get in touch with the show either through Twitter or email with any ideas for potential bonus content)

The brothers provide an assessment of where things stand after 100 days of Israel’s war on Gaza, the horror being suffered by the people in Gaza, as well as the forms that resistance takes and the paths toward an outline of liberation.

Date of recording: Jan 16, 2024.

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Music by Hadiiiiii

“Legitimacy does, in the end, prevail" w/ Richard Falk Jan 09, 2024

The brothers talk with the distinguished legal scholar Richard Falk about the possible political, legal, and moral consequences of the International Court of Justice case brought by South Africa against Israel on the charge of genocide.

Date of recording: January 9, 2024.

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"I truly hope this is our year” w/ Diana Buttu Jan 02, 2024

The brothers welcome Palestinian lawyer Diana Buttu (@dianabuttu) to the show to provide a broader political context for the crisis in Gaza, including the growing contradictions within Israeli politics, the struggle for hegemony within Palestinian politics, the legacy and possible future role of the PLO, and the legal and political consequences of the war in (and on) Gaza. The conversation also offers perspective on the so-called peace process of the late 1990s and early 2000s, in which Diana was involved, and the parameters in which we can start to imagine possible resolutions of this conflict.

Date of recording: January 2, 2024.

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Music by Hadiiiiii

Christmas—and Christians—in Palestine w/ Dr. Mitri Raheb Dec 24, 2023

The brothers welcome Dr. Mitri Raheb to the show to talk about the role and visibility of Christians in Palestine’s ecumenical culture, so-called Christian Zionism, and how the Bible can be read either as a text authorizing empire and genocide (as with Netanyahu citing the extirpation of the Amalek) or as a text calling for liberation, equality, justice and resistance to empire. Check out his books, Decolonizing Palestine: The Land, The People, The Bible (2023) and I Am a Palestinian Christian God and Politics in the Holy Land: A Personal Testimony (1995)

Date of recording: December 22, 2023.

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The day after in Gaza w/ Dr. Ghassan Abu Sittah Dec 21, 2023

The brothers welcome this extraordinary Palestinian physician, @GhassanAbuSitt1, to the show, to talk about his recent experience in Gaza in comparison with other Israeli attacks on Gaza (2014, 2008-9). “One of the aims of catastrophization, the creation of a self-sustaining catastrophe in Gaza,” Abu Sittah warns, “is that, once there is a ceasefire, the catastrophe is able to continue, with the help of the siege. And so, my biggest worry about the day after is that the Israelis will be allowed to achieve, in the siege, in the ceasefire, what they failed to achieve in the war.”

Date of recording: December 20, 2023.

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"The beginning of the end of the Zionist project?" w/ Ilan Pappé Dec 13, 2023

In this episode, the brothers interview the historian Ilan Pappé, best known for his 2006 book The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, in order to gain some historical perspective on the catastrophe unfolding in Gaza as well as what the current situation tells us about shifting global and local attitudes and even how one can start to anticipate the terminal stage of the Zionist project in Palestine—and what that means for the future.

Date of recording: December 12, 2023.

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"I just look for the day there will be justice" w/ Francesca Albanese Dec 04, 2023

The Makdisi brothers welcome Francesca Albanese (@FranceskAlbs), the UN Special Rapporteur on Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, to the podcast. The discussion covers international humanitarian law, the concept of self-defense as it is understood in international law, the right to resist military occupation, the specificities of settler colonial occupation, and the question of justice given the Israeli bombardment of Gaza.

Date of recording: December 4, 2023

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"Saying ‘pauses’ implies there’s more harm to come" Nov 26, 2023

In this episode, we discuss the international backdrop to the Gaza ceasefire/truce/pause (and what the distinctions are among all those terms). We also cover Israeli and US aims for Gaza in view of resistance on the ground and their failure to achieve their objectives in the 2006 war in Lebanon, as well as the significance of the prisoner exchange for the local legitimacy and standing of Hamas.

Date of recording: November 26, 2023.

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Follow us on X: @MakdisiStreet Follow us on YouTube: @MakdisiStreet Music by Hadiiiiii

"An unmitigated human catastrophe" Nov 25, 2023

In this episode, we discuss the coverage and framing of the ongoing Israeli bombardment of Gaza including media narratives, gaps between popular and establishment positions, and the stifling of dissent in the academy.

Date of Recording: November 14, 2023.

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