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Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Elizabeth talks to Margaret about coming into preparedness as an urban PTA mom, building family preparedness, teaching kids about disasters, and flipping the prepping narrative to focus on building inclusive communities and resiliency. Guest Info Elizabeth Doerr (she/her) is a writer and parent. You can find her work at https://www.elizabethdoerr.com or her newsletter on Substack at https://crammingfortheapocalypse.substack.com or on Instagram @crammingfortheapocalypse or on Twitter @ElizabethDoerr Host Info Margaret can be found on twitter @magpiekilljoy or instagram at @margaretkilljoy. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Transcript Elizabeth Doerr on Family Preparedness **Margaret ** 00:15 Hello, and welcome to Live Like the World is Dying, your podcast for what feels like the end times. I'm your host this week, Margaret Killjoy. And this week, I have Elizabeth Doerr on to talk about her journey into preparedness. And, I think y'all are gonna get a lot out of this conversation. I'm really excited to have it. I first talked to--I guess I'll get to that later during the actual interview. But first, here's a jingle from another show on the network Channel Zero Network, which is a network of anarchist podcasts. So here's another one. Dah dah duh dah duh dah [singing the words like a simple melody] **Margaret ** 01:31 Okay, and we're back. Okay. So if you could introduce yourself with your name, your pronouns, and then maybe like, how you got started on your preparedness journey? **Elizabeth Doerr ** 01:40 Sure. Um, Hi there, my name is Elizabeth Doerr, and my pronouns are she/her. And, I got started on my preparedness journey mainly because we moved to Portland, Oregon in 2016 where there is going to be a huge earthquake that can devastate the city. And, then subsequently had my son and became--and had already been concerned about climate change, but then that fear of climate change really kind of ratcheted up a lot more with having a kid. And so, over the last few years, I've really been trying to do more to prepare, not just for the earthquake but really for climate change in general, and trying to figure out what that means just in terms of society, in terms of the way we can--not just in personal action--but how we can really just change the entire system altogether. And, so that has turned into a Substack called Cramming for the Apocalypse, which is also going to be a book eventually, as well. But, for the last year, it's been in newsletter form. **Margaret ** 02:54 Do you ever have this thing where you're like, "But you have to hurry up and make it a book because what if the apocalypse happens before you get the book out?" **Elizabeth Doerr ** 03:01 Well, it's funny because my agent was kind of...she's like, "It's an evergreen topic." But she's like, "It always feels so urgent. I want to get it out as soon as possible." But then also at the same time it's like ... yeah, I know. Yeah, exactly. I do have that pretty much every day. But, also it takes forever to write a book. So it's...yeah. But, it's amazing even just in traditional publishing how long it takes to get a book out into the world, and it's like, "Well, in three years, what could the world be like?" So, yeah. **Margaret ** 03:34 I think about this all the time. I actually--because of the 2016 election and stuff--I, for a while, stopped writing books and started focusing more on music because everything felt so immediate in crisis that I was like, "I don't have time to finish this book, take a year for my agent to find a publisher, take a year for them to publish it, take a year for people to read it and care about it." Like, I just need to make music that people hear tomorrow because, otherwise, what am I doing? And then it turns out, we had more than three years, so it's fine. [Laughing] **Elizabeth Doerr ** 04:10 And I love that. I wish I had that skill and ability because that would be so...And I actually think that with like, I wish I was a really good artist too because friends who are excellent at, you know, drawing and art--or at least visual art, that is--I'm jealous because it's like, that's something you can see now. I mean, you can do with writing too but it's just a little more visceral immediately. But yes, totally. **Margaret ** 04:37 No, that makes sense. Okay, so one of the reasons I wanted to have you on, one, is that you were working on an article that we might talk about later, and reached out to me, but one of the things that I'm really excited to talk to you about and that I think that people might get a lot out of hearing from is you're like...you are not the stereotypical prepper in the traditional sense, and you're also not necessarily the stereotypical, like, what people might imagine when they imagine the leftist prepper, right? Which might look more like me. I don't know. I don't know what people have in their minds. And, you know, when I asked you how to how to describe this, you were like, "Well, you're a white middle aged urban mom who has progressive values, who is learning...is getting more and more interested in anarchism and more radical values beyond that, but you exist within the mainstream culture. And then also you're a PTA mom, for example," right? I'm really excited to talk to you about all this shit. It's like, this is the stuff that like...like people who like...I really love that you found--Well, I guess I want to ask you more about how you found your way into radical politics from this, like you mentioned that like your study of preparedness has like led you to being like, "Oh, what if we, what if we need to structure society differently?" Like, what has that journey been like for you? **Elizabeth Doerr ** 05:53 Yeah, I mean, I guess the question is how far back to go? I mean, so I, you know, it really...I mean, I'll give you a little bit of a snapshot kind of like before this whole journey, but I, you know, it started as, I was a Peace Corps volunteer after I graduated from college. And, so I lived in Malawi, in southeastern Africa. And I had gotten in with a very, like traditional, like, I guess, liberal views about what international development being good for, you know, developing countries and then came out of it with a vast nastily different perspective, that actually, you know, that's a part of imperialism and we're doing harm. And it's, you know, it's just a, you know, it's just a holdover from colonialism, and that I still, you know, a belief that I still hold. But I had a really hard time, I guess, articulating what that was until I went to graduate school for International Education Policy at University of Maryland. And it's pretty radical...I didn't know this going into it, but it was like the perfect program for me, because the way they viewed international development was very much aligned with the kind of critiques that I had. **Margaret ** 07:06 Oh cool. was, **Elizabeth Doerr ** 07:07 Yeah, so like it was more...I would say they took a more like, Democratic Socialist view of it. I don't think that they had[unhearable] .... That's my perspective that, you know, we needed more community based solutions happening and that kind of stuff. And so that really started that on that path, and I worked in higher education, working in social justice education. And at that time, had really--and still I think I have some of these...you know, that's when I kind of started calling myself a Democratic socialist and probably, you know, in theory would call myself that now, although it's a little blurrier. But yeah, and so, you know, so and then it's, you know, I think becoming a parent actually radicalized me even more, because, you know, I just, especially with what's going on in the US about how our school choice system really perpetuates segregation, racial segregation. And I really didn't want to be a part of that. And, but it's also like, you know, especially like being in my role as a PTA, like a middle aged PTA mom, with my kid going to public school system, it's like a conversation about, you know, "Which school should I send my kid to?" as being kind of this constant, yet nobody points out how racist it is. And so that's a big part of it. And then, these are all values that have really been a part of me in most of my adulthood. So it really was, as I embarked on this whole process, like anti racism, social justice, you know, these kinds of radical values, were always going to be a part of this project, that Cramming For the Apocalypse art project. I think I wasn't completely prepared for all of the things that I was going to learn, which I love. Like, it was really new to me. You know, I don't think I ever really questioned the kind of, quote "definition" that everybody, you know, every mainstream person in society from left to right deems anarchists, as, you know, being a kind of chaotic force, whereas as I was diving into this project, I was like, I started to realize that, one, that we have the definition completely all wrong. **Margaret ** 07:07 Yeah. **Elizabeth Doerr ** 07:09 I'd say the majority of people in society still get it wrong. Even just hearing it in, you know, from quotes on the news, I get kind of triggered. [Margaret laughs] And then also knowing that I was like, "Oh, well, there are aspects to this that I really think could be the solution, and especially the solution to things like climate change, or at least get to, one, averting climate change but also in just recreating a completely different society that can thrive in that post apocalyptic environment. And I, do you want me to talk a little bit more about my kind of like--you know, because as we were talking about this, I have this kind of like...I live in mainstream society. I'm very much a PTA mom. So like, I think that I hold this interesting role because I, you know, I'm very active in our PTA. I mean, we are a PTA that's pretty social justice oriented, very diverse. My kid goes to a school with majority kids of color, which can be unusual in Portland, Oregon. But then also, I don't know, like, I like, you know, I like to do things that the average white American middle-aged mom is like, "I like to go to drinks with my friends..." **Margaret ** 11:00 Do you like to eat brunch? So that's the only cliche I can come up with. **Elizabeth Doerr ** 11:06 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, yes. Yes. I love brunch. **Margaret ** 11:10 I'm sure it's great. Yeah. **Elizabeth Doerr ** 11:14 Although, with a kid, it does make it a little bit more challenging to do like Sunday morning, Saturday morning things that are not soccer related. Yeah. Soccer mom. There, that's another cliche. **Margaret ** 11:27 I could have led with that. Yeah. **Elizabeth Doerr ** 11:29 Yeah, I know. I didn't even think about that. I should have. But anyway, I think that what's been kind of cool about it is that it makes me relatable in that way to people who might be questioning, you know, who exist in this mainstream environment, but also I'm also really vocal. I'm a very loud person. And I don't have much to hide. And so I'm like.... So a lot of people know my values. And so, you know, I've had friends who will text me being like, "Okay, how do I approach this situation? How I approach that situation?" and that kind of stuff. And so I think that that...and that's actually why I think this book and this newsletter can be really useful in that, like, you know, people who might be really questioning what's happening in the world, really worried, but they can see themselves in me and my journey and know that it doesn't have to look one way and that you can do these really weird things. Like, weird to like this environment to me, like learning how to hunt when I haven't ever seen a gun in real life. **Margaret ** 12:37 Yeah. So, no, okay. So this is like...there's so much here that I'm really excited about. But okay, so to start with your newsletter, Cramming For the Apocalypse, you just hit a year of it, right? **Elizabeth Doerr ** 12:52 Yeah, yeah. **Margaret ** 12:54 Okay, so what are some of the--besides the sort of political angle--what are some of the directions that it took you that you didn't expect? Or like, what are some of the things that you've learned by writing about preparedness from your perspective for the past year? **Elizabeth Doerr ** 13:07 Oh, gosh, yeah. I feel like I should have better formed thoughts on this. **Margaret ** 13:13 It's okay. Whenever anyone asks me, like, "So, what books do you like?" I'm like, "I've never heard of a book." **Elizabeth Doerr ** 13:19 God, I know. **Margaret ** 13:19 "What's a book?" **Elizabeth Doerr ** 13:23 I know. Well, you know, I think that.... Okay, well, I can say that...let me just say that I started the newsletter because I had been working on the book project, still trying to get it out to publishers--I have an agent now, which is exciting--but I really...I was doing so much and I wanted to just get the journey out there in some way. I needed to be writing about it. And so I...and it's been...I mean, I.... What has been really interesting to me is that.... I mean, my idea of what a prepper is has changed. I mean, I think I had preconceived--I mean, a lot of mainstream media and all of us in society probably have a preconceived notion of a doomsday prepper--and, you know, I had already pushed past that a little bit by the time I started the newsletter, because that's the whole reason...I mean, that was the whole reason of doing this book is really kind of flipping the narrative of what a prepper is or could be, but I still think that, I realized how much I had to learn about what that even means. And, you know, I mean, we could talk about this too, the story that that I interviewed you for, for The Progressive. That kind of shows a little bit of where I kind of have come through with this is that, you know, I think that we...you know, prepper exists.... The term "prepper" exists in a variety of different ways that just might not be called "prepper." I mean, I think that the idea--or prepp-ing--you know, talking about mutual aid and even, you know.... And even you, I think, really helped me see this too even more, is that we have a lot more in common with those kind of on the right wing who are prepping than we might think. And, you know, there's a way to find common ground. There's a way. You don't have to.... **Margaret ** 15:28 Depending on where they're coming at it from, you know, but yeah. **Elizabeth Doerr ** 15:31 I mean, I would say not everybody. Like in the political realm, that, I think, is maybe not where we're going to be finding common area, but I do think that the values of: you just want to have...you want to protect your family, you want to be safe, you want to have community. Everyone wants community most. And so, how can we find common ground about that? And I think that's something I've been really trying to come around about is like not to be too judgmental off the bat when that, you know, when somebody expresses these views that might shock me at first, but I m…
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